From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #78 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, June 22 2000 Volume 01 : Number 078 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 16:54:38 -0600 From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: [AML] _The Real World_ I loved reading Tony's thoughts on the recent _Real World_. I'm glad it drew you out of lurkerdom Tony. Let me off a few of my own thoughts - even though I've not watched the full half hour of the last episode. 1. She is annoying. I hated in the cast show how she jumped off the plane jumping up and down about how she got to meet Donny Osmond. 2. She *does* fit the BYU stereotypes pretty well. If that was what MTV was aiming for they succeeded remarkably well. 3. She probably will do the church good. She appears like someone who really follows her standards but is also very open, curious and 'real.' I think people will find that tolerance need not mean accepting all lifestyles and actions. Her encounter with the homosexual guy the last episode was a great example of that. He asks her what she thinks about him being gay and she basically says that her views of morality can't accept that. Then, after clearly feeling awkward, she says, 'but I love you.' But unlike most "love the sinner hate the sin" types of things it is obvious that she really means it. One more thing that a few might be interested in is the current _Road Rules_ also on MTV. _Road Rules_ is basically _Real World_ only with the people on a giant scavenger hunt. The current cast spends their first week or so around Provo. We actually met them at a club up in Park City around Sundance. Some of the cast hooked up with some girls from BYU they met at Gold's Gym. I don't know if that will make it into the show or not. But that should be interesting. My impression from talking with them was that they were all pretty nice people - much more normal than they come off on TV. I suspect it won't make it onto the show, but both my roommates were hitting on the cute girls on the show. We nearly all got invited to some party up there, but one of my roommates came on a tad too strong. But if they show them dancing up at Harry-O's in Park City you may see me in the background somewhere! Anyway MTV appeared to have been so interested in Mormons that both their reality shows this year feature Mormons in some way. I should add that from talking to them most of the _Road Rules_ cast *hated* Provo. So I'm not sure it'll be favorable. Of course I'm not too big a fan myself, so who am I to talk? - -- Clark Goble --- d.c.g@att.net ----------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:03:38 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] _The Real World_ Jason Steed wrote: = > My concern, then, about the way this girl will be portrayed on _The Rea= l > World_ is that many of the "readers" of the show (like many of the read= ers > of Kushner, Orgasmo, etc.) will take the portrayal for what it claims t= o be: > namely, "The Real World." But it is the Real World, Jason. The standards by which Mormons live are about as different as they can be from the majority of the rest of the world. We are only five million in America, and maybe two million who actually attend every Sunday. We don't get to dictate what the world's standards are -- we just aren't that large yet. To what do you attribute this girl's naivet=E9 BUT Mormonism? This is no= t necessarily something we need be ashamed of by the way. Naivet=E9 is its= own reward. - -- = Thom Duncan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Read the further adventures of Moroni Smith, the LDS Indiana Jones! The long-awaited second episode in the Moroni Smith LDS adventure series, _Moroni Smith: In Search of the Gold Plates_ is now available as an e-book at the Zion's Fiction web page: = http://www.zfiction.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:07:12 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Movie Ratings "Eric D. Snider" wrote: > > " certainly > had violence and death, had two F-words, and remained PG-13. > > You would know better than I would, since you were on the MPAA board at one > point (how recently, out of curiosity?), but from an outsider's perspective, > it seems like there are very few hard-and-fast rules that they follow. I'd > be interested to know what, if any, set-in-stone rules they had when you > served on the board, because I'd like to see if they always followed them. I > suspect that whatever rigid guidelines they have, they disregard them fairly > often, depending on the movie. The MPAA board changes every two years as I recall. I've also been told that the only requirements for membership is that one be a parent. No one hands out a list of acceptable terms, scenes, etc. A bunch of parents sit around in a room and decide among themselves what to rate a movie. Two years late, with another group in place, the ratings may differ. Not having ever been a member, I may be wrong, but this is what I seem to recall Jack Valenti (MPAA chairman) saying in an interview. - -- Thom Duncan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Read the further adventures of Moroni Smith, the LDS Indiana Jones! The long-awaited second episode in the Moroni Smith LDS adventure series, _Moroni Smith: In Search of the Gold Plates_ is now available as an e-book at the Zion's Fiction web page: http://www.zfiction.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 17:23:28 -0700 From: Barbara@techvoice.com (Barbara R. Hume) Subject: [AML] _Left Behind_ series (was: TARR, _The Gathering Storm_) >I appreciated Jeff Needle's careful review of THE GATHERING STORM. Just a >question which seems related--has anyone in our group taken up the LEFT >BEHIND series whose #7 book is now first on the New York Times bestseller >list? It's supposed to be about prophecy. Maybe we've discussed it already >when I wasn't here? Anyway, if you do know about it, could you encapsulize >it and give your opinion for me? I read the first book in that series, and I liked it a lot. It dealt with what happens after the good people are taken up into Heaven and the not-so-hot ones are left behind. I had sort of assumed that would happen right before the end--maybe the good guys would float up out of the way just as the defecatory matter strikes the rotating ventilation device--but these writers set up a more interesting scenario. Suddenly, certain people simply vanish. Their clothes, eyeglasses, or whatever are still there, but their physical beings are gone. Eventually the ones still around figure out that it's the good ones who are gone, and they tie it in to the Rapture, as the Protestant lingo has it. One of the main characters is an airline pilot who finds that people have vanished from his plane in mid-flight. When he lands, he learns that this has happened all over the world. His church-going, lovely wife and his sweet son are gone, but his worldly, cynical daughter who has followed his unbelieving path is still there. A group of people form whose mission is to figure out what to do next, and to find out if there's any way they can still clean up their act and be with their loved ones again. One is an assistant minister who says he was left behind because he was just going through the motions--not really helping anybody or loving anyone besides himself. I've been kind of looking for book two in the libraries, but haven't found it. The third one, I think, is about the rise of the anti-Christ. It's really interesting, although it feels funny not to have the center of religious activity take place in Salt Lake City! Why, they act as though the Mormons are just some splinter group! The noive of those guys! barbara hume - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:53:48 MDT From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: Re: [AML] BLUTH/GOLDMAN, _Titan A.E._ >I was curious to read in this article of the Utah origin and raising of Don >Bluth. I'm curious if there is a different Don Bluth in the animation >business than the one I grew up with in Santa Monica Stake, California. > Does anybody know what the deal is? Richard-- Don Bluth did indeed grow up in Utah. In Mapleton, to be exact. His mother still lives just up the street from my father's boyhood home. He and my father grew up together. I don't know anything of the Don Bluth from California, but the Don Bluth of _The Rats of Nym_(spelling?) fame is a Utah boy. Marianne Hales Harding ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:12:53 JST From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) Best Mormon Novel of the 90s Okay, I think it is time to vote for the Best Mormon Novel of the 1990s (fanfare). Thanks for your nominations, I've added books by Rachael Nunes, David Gagon, Brent Yorgason, and a couple by Dave Wolverton that you have demanded. I agreed to open the nomination to books by never-have-been-members, but none were nominated. Remember that for convenience sake I am keeping serial novels together as one piece of fiction, rather than having you vote for one book in the series. This applies to Card's "Homecoming" series, Wolverton/Farland's "Runelords" and "Golden Queen" series, Hughes' "Children of the Promise" series, Nunes' "Ariana" series and Lund's "Work and the Glory" series. I am saving juvenile novels for a separate category later. Don't worry that you haven't read many of these, just vote for what you like. That makes it kind of a People's Choice award, a combination of mass popularity and literary skill. Also, feel free to comment on why you made the choice you did, and why you didn't choose others. One thing I like about the AML-list is that it gives me a chance to hear what books other people recommend. This is your chance to give a quick and dirty letter grade or whatever to what books you read over the decade. Or just send in a simple vote if you want. I'd love for everyone to participate. I already have recieved a couple of votes. Nominated books: Arnold, Marilyn. "Desert Song" Covenant, 1998. Barber, Phyllis. "And the Desert Shall Blossom" University of Utah, 1991. Barkdull, Larry. "The Mourning Dove" St. Martins. 1997. Brown, Marilyn. "Royal House" Covenant, 1994. - -----, "Statehood" Aspen, 1995. Card, Orson Scott. "Xenocide," TOR, 1991. - -----, "Lost Boys" HarperCollins, 1992. - -----, "Homecoming Series (The Memory of Earth, etc.)" TOR,1992-1995. - -----, "Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus" TOR, 1995. Evans, Richard Paul, "The Christmas Box" Simon and Schuster, 1995. Evenson, Brian. "Father of Lies" Four Walls Eight Windows, 1998. Fillerup, Michael. "Beyond the River" Signature, 1995. Fisher, Franklin. "Bones" University of Utah, 1990. Freeman, Judith, "A Desert of Pure Feeling" Vintage, 1996. Gagon, David. "Honorable Release" Signature, 1992. Gardner, Lynne. "Sapphires and Smugglers" Covenant, 1999. Hedley, Leslie B. "Twelve Sisters" Bookcraft, 1993. Hedges, Mack. "The Last Buckaroo" Gibbs Smith, 1995. Hughes, Dean. "Children of the Promise" series, Deseret, 1997-1999. Jolley, JoAnn "Secrets of the Heart" Covenant, 1998. Kidd, Kathryn. "Paradise Vue" Hatrack, 1990. Kirn, Walter. "Thumbsucker" Broadway, 1999. Lund, Gerald. "The Work and the Glory" series, Bookcraft, 1990-1998. Nunes, Rachel Ann. "Ariana" series. Covenant, 1996-1999. Palmer, Susan. "The Tabernacle Bar" Signature, 1995. Parkinson, Benson. "The MTC: Set Apart" Aspen, 1995. Peck, Lisa J. "Dangerous Memories" Ceder Fort, 1998. Perry, Anne. "Tathea" Shadow Mountain, 1999. - -----, "The Sins of the Wolf" Fawcett Columbine, 1994. Peterson, Levi. "Aspen Maroney" Signature, 1996. Sillitoe, Linda. "Secrets Keep" Signature, 1995. Smith, Robert Farrell. "The Miracle of Forgetness" Aspen, 1997. Smurthwaite, Donald S. "Fine Old High Priests" Deseret, 1999. Stansfield, Anita. "First Love and Forever" Covenant, 1994. Taylor, Curtis. "The Invisible Saint" Stanley Curtis Publishing, 1990. Van Wagoner, Robert Hodgson. "Dancing Naked" Signature, 1999. Wolverton, Dave. "Serpent Catch" Bantam, 1991. - -----, "Path of the Hero" Bantam, 1993. - -----, "The Golden Queen" trilogy, TOR, 1994-1996. - -----, (As David Farland) "The Runelords" series, St. Martins, 1998-1999. Yorgason, Brenton G. "Paradise Creek" Lighthouse Publishing, 1998. Young, Margaret Blair. "House Without Walls" Deseret, 1991. - -----, "Salvador" Aspen, 1992. Andrew Hall ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:21:59 -0500 From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] BLUTH/GOLDMAN, _Titan A.E._ > >Full frontal *male* nudity is a huge film rating no-no (I > > believe it warrants NC-17? > > if there's any camera time spent on it at all? > >No. R. Okay, Thom, thanks for the clarification. So. If it is "only R," can anyone explain why there is so much less full male than female nudity on average, in films containing full nudity? Now I don't see a ton of these for myself. Someone else who does could enlighten me further. But of those I remember seeing (back in the days when I cared less what I watched), I remember seeing plenty of nude women here and there but never a fully nude man. (Hm, *maybe,* a split-second shot in _Romeo & Juliet?_) Therefore my argument remains: the industry is biased. Either they are exploiting women more than men or they are protecting men's privates with greater concern than women's. Maybe it's because fully nude male shots just won't sell to any audience... That's just plain not marketable, period? Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://members.xoom.com/adamszoo http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:02:23 PDT From: "Jason Steed" Subject: Re: [AML] Race and Culture in LDS Lit. Bill Willson wrote: >I think the problem with this statement: > >Because we're the "dominant" group, the "majority," we fail to see > >ourselves as "raced" or "racialized," >lies in the fact that a lot of Mormon writers never get out of the cocoon >called Utah and see the real world. [large snip] According to the U.S. Census Bureau (and I freely admit that this cannot be trusted as wholly accurate), "whites"--or at least those who define themselves as such by checking the little boxes on the form--still make up around 80% of this country's population. I know this figure is surprising to a lot of people (because I've discussed the statistics with many people, and I've seen their reactions), but anyone can go to the cesus website to check it out. I think it's surprising because in most big cities (like San Fran, and Las Vegas, where I live currently), which tend to get media attention and to which the media caters, "whites" are not so 'dominant.' At any rate, these figures are what motivated me to use those words (dominant and majority)...I wasn't just referring to Utah... Jason ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:40:03 -0700 From: Rob Pannoni Subject: Re: [AML] _The Real World_ Jason Steed wrote: > > What is secondarily distressing is the way she will undoubtedly be portrayed > (as evidenced by the brief description of her). They're already setting her > up as someone who, largely due to her Mormonism, doesn't know much (hasn't > experienced much of the world), and is about to learn. As for how we present > ourselves, and how we appear... In this girl's case, it really won't matter > HOW she presents herself. TV, like all forms of media (including novels, > plays, movies, magazines, etc.), is a strictly _mediated_ mode of > communication. They'll make her look the way they want her to look, not the > way she presents herself. All media have a subjective point of view, but I think "reality programming" is somewhat less subject to misleading representations than other forms. The editors can only work with real events as they are captured on camera. I suppose if they had a vendetta, they could edit things in such a way to present a seriously skewed perspective, but I can't see why they would bother to do this. More likely, they will edit for human drama wherever it occurs naturally in the events they capture. In the half dozen or so past Real World episodes I've watched, the natural character and personality of the roomates seem to come through pretty strongly. I certainly had no sense that the editors were playing fast and loose with the depictions. There's no need to. Life is stranger and more interesting than fiction. But I find the concern about the show interesting for what it says about the mormon perspective on media. Public relations runs deep in our veins. We are concerned that MTV might reinforce the stereotype that mormon youth are naive and inexperienced. But for the most part, they are relatively naive and inexperienced. In a sense, that's the effect the church is designed to have on them. I have no reason to disbelieve MTV's description of the character. That description would fit a good proportion of the LDS youth I know. So unless you believe the description is atypical, the concerns about the show become "they might show what we're really like." Or at least what some of us are really like. Reality seems to be quite terrifying to us as a culture because we are so accustomed to carefully calculating and crafting our image. I know our hearts are in the right place and all. But sometimes our obsession with image can reach the absurd. My favorite example from my BYU days was "Roach-Gate," where a couple of BYU cafeteria workers revealed to the Daily Universe that the cafeteria had a roach problem that they had been unable to get their superiors to address. The result of the disclosure? The roaches stayed but the whistle blowers were sent packing. When you think about the number of mormons in America and the political clout and wealth of the church, it's amazing how infrequently mormons are depicted in the media. I think Bill Wilson was right to point out that we are a minority (although because of our affluence and political power, minority status doesn't effect us quite the same way as "traditional" minorities). I can't help but think having a real mormon on TV is much better for us than having fictional depictions, which are much more subject to being skewed. Even if the Real World character is not representative of the church membership as a whole, it will bring mormonism out of the cultural shadows. That seems like a good thing to me. - -- Rob Pannoni Rapport Systems http://www.rapport-sys.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:43:57 -0600 From: "Jim and Laurel Brady" Subject: Re: [AML] Race and Culture in LDS Lit. > Jason Steed wrote: > > > I would be very interested, though, if others on the list can come up with > > works that deal with races other than white--and I'm going right now to > > search my bookshelves... > > Marilyn Brown's marvelous _Earthkeepers_ deals, at length, with the Native > American culture. And my YA novel, _Circle Dance_, is set on the > Uintah-Ouray Indian Reservation. > > Sharlee Glenn My turn for a shameless plug--my first national novel (childrens middle grade) "Say You Are My Sister" deals with racial (African American) issues in 1944 Georgia. Laurel Brady - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:44:46 -0600 From: "Gae Lyn Henderson" Subject: RE: [AML] Iron Rod vs. Liahona D. Michael Martindate wrote: "Never have I heard sung in church: "the iron rod is traditional Utah culture's interpretation of how to apply Gospel principles."]" Kind of has a nice ring to it though. Maybe you could moonlight as a lyricist. "If I am studying and searching and meditating in an effort to find the truth, and I am including the word of God in this process, why does that mean I am stepping away from the iron rod--for even a few minutes--just because my explorations don't jive with traditional Utah cultural pseudo-truths?" I think I agree. But help me out here. Define what you mean by "traditional Utah cultural pseudo-truths?" If we had a manual listing these deceptive teachings which have ingratiated theselves into our conciousness, maybe we could be an guard against them. How about that for a Mormon-lit writing project? The Utah Manual of Pseudo-Truth. Gae Lyn Henderson - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:42:20 EDT From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] LDS Church Magazines Are Going Online Kent Larsen: I'm not sure exactly where Larry got his version of my article to Mormon News (its been passed around without the required footers giving attribution), but I think it gives a slightly wrong impression. The problem is that Elder Packer's announcement in the letter is somewhat ambiguous, and might be read to mean that only the curriculum support materials will be on line. _______________ This one I didn't get from Mormon-News. I wrote my post based on reading the letter, of which I have a copy. I also sent the same post to another list with added information concerning the specific curriculum support materials that would be included in the magazines. (I didn't believe this list would be interested, but I have it, if anyone is.) As Listers are aware, I have been asked to forward Mormon- News posts that might be of interest to the AML list. Our moderator makes the actual determination as to whether they are posted. This is done giving full credit to MN and Kent's excellent work. In this case, I received the letter earlier, wrote the post, and sent it before I saw Kent's article. (I have since seen Kent's exact wording posted to other lists without credit and, I agree with Kent, inappropriately.) The letter itself is only four sentences long. It was interesting to see Kent's writeup. He, of course, had access to other information, whereas I only had the letter to read. Will the entire magazine be posted? I will let each of you determine if Elder Packer was ambiguous or not. My vote is that the whole magazine will be there. Following is an exact quote of the fourth and last sentence in the June 1st letter, capitalization, punctuation, internet address warts and all. In addition, the content of the magazines will be posted on the Church Internet site (LDS.ORG) ninety days after they are printed. Larry Jackson [MOD: Thanks to both Larry and Kent for keeping us in the loop on this. We're indebted to both of them for much of the Mormon arts-related information we're able to publish on AML-List.] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 00:36:03 -0600 From: "Gae Lyn Henderson" Subject: RE: [AML] _The Real World_ Todd Robert Petersen wrote: - -she is a courageous and passionate woman on the verge of discovering her own authority. I like this description of a Mormon woman. Such is the obscured identity of my sisters that few even glimpse. Those outside of the culture who envision the persona of passive, obedient, bare-footed, pregnant, mindless, soul-starved women would be surprised. Not that I cast aspersions on the pregnant, nor associate that state with weakness. [I'm very proud of jogging several blocks (to the church and back) after I went into labor with my fifth child.] Mormon women, I suspect, have generally little conception of the impact that our voices could and should have on people outside our culture. For example, there is much to be learned from the intimacy, the bonding, between mother and infant. And Mormon women practice that relationship more than many other people do! That learning could teach those in "The Real World," some things about respect, sharing of space, mutuality. At one writer's workshop on ethnography, taught by Linda Brodky, I shared a short piece I had written about a childhood conflict between my desire to while away the summer days reading and my mother's imperative that her daughters work in the garden, picking peas, beans, raspberries, and then spend the remainder of the day canning and preserving those foods. To me it was the most ordinary of topics. Linda Brodky commented, though, on the possibilities such writing has to discuss traditional women's work, to figure out what value it has, to help women (and men) reconfigure roles. And so I suddenly saw my Utah upbringing as the richest of mines to explore. Moreover, I argue it is vital that we (LDS women) cultural-insiders also notice and value our precipitous discovery of authority. How easy it is to lapse into temporary weakness, to forget our strength. If many of us have been told we don't fit into the preconceived image that people hold of women in our culture, then remember: those images must be enriched, complicated, deepened. We can do it. Gae Lyn Henderson - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:26:20 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Movie Ratings Dean FH Macy wrote: > For instance, how about "G" for Good clean > films suitable for children, > "VG" for Violent "G" films, such as cartoons, "NG" for films which expose some > male or female Nudity which is not sexually related, like in "Never Cry > Wolf" or > cartoons which show some animated skin, "SG" for the good, clean Sci-Fi/Fantasy > flicks, and so on (you get the picture). We could apply this system to the one > already in use as "VPG" or "NPG" adding "LPG" for Language and "VLPG" for > Violence & Language. The "R" rating can remain the same except I'd like to see > why a film is rated "R" in the letters; for instance, "XR" for seXually > oriented > content or "VR" for extreme Violence. This would eliminate the "PG13" genre > since all films not rated "G" should be under parental discretion anyway. Almost any other system would be better than the meaningless one we have today. This suggested one does seem a little overly complicated. I would just like an assessment of what's in the film, without any judgment on the part of the committee to tell me if I need to practice parental guidance. Seems to me I should be doing that for _every_ film anyway. What do people usually consider objectionable? Sex, nudity (not necessarily the same), violence, language. These are easily quantifiable categories. Other more subjective ones are adult themes: sexual mores, sexual orientation, issues of honesty, anti-religious messages, etc. These would be difficult to quantify, and an effort to codify them shouldn't be attempted. To learn about these, we should just find out about the film. This is easily done by coughing up the cost of a newspaper and reading the movie reviews. Especially in Utah, reviewers seem conscientious about reporting possibly objectionable material, even if they disagree with the judgment. I would like to see a rating system that simply states what quantifiable elements exist that are likely to be objectionable: S for sex, N for nudity, V for violence, L for language, with a 0-3 severity assessment. Perhaps an A for adult themes just to warn us that some subjective elements are present. This doesn't necessarily cut down on the size of the rating from Dean's suggestion, but it does cut down on the difficulty of translation for human beings, and leaves the actual judgment of appropriateness to individuals or their parents. When we see something like "Never Cry Wolf" rated S0 N1, we know that some nudity appears, but it's nonsexual. When we see S1 N1 for "Braveheart," we know that some nudity exists in a sexual context, but that it's mild (brief shot of breasts on a married couple's wedding night). When we see S3 N3 for "9 1/2 Weeks," the alarm bells will go off. The V and L (and possibly A) ratings would work comparably. This fulfills completely Joseph Smith's policy of educating people and letting them govern themselves. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:38:28 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Where's our LDS Pulitzer prize winner? Terry L Jeffress wrote: > Other stigmas interfere with generating widely-accepted literature. You can > still find many saints that frown on any reading expect for scripture and > church sponsored materials. Even if you don't hold that view, you have to > deal with those who do. And that presents another limit to producing good > works. I don't understand what you mean. I see no reason to deal with such an extreme opinion except to ignore it. How will these people affect LDS literature, other than just not being part of the market? - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 02:34:53 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Race and Culture in LDS Lit. Jason Steed wrote: > A lot of people probably think I'm being very opinionated and aggressive in my > posts, because I'm tossing around this term and practically accusing > everyone of being "racist." Part of this is my lack of tact; part of it is > intentional. Racism is a STRONG word. It gets our attention. I contend that > if we own up to our _racism_, we'll realize its gravity, its seriousness, > and by being more conscientious of it in this way, we can better combat it. Swerving back into a literary connection... I disagree. "Tossing around" a strong term and applying it in a universal way only dilutes it into meaningless. Rather than getting our attention, we tune it out, because it has become noise. Also, using a strong term for mild or moderate behavior will cause no one to own up to the problem--it will cause them to see no connection between the strong term and what they are doing, and thereby concluding that they have no problem. I see this progression happening for racism, Nazism, sexual harrassment, and a number of other terms which are favorites of the political correctness movement. Among people for whom words are a vital part of their occupation and/or interest, the dilution and corruption of words ought to be of serious concern. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:43:18 -0700 From: Jeff Needle Subject: [AML] _Left Behind_ series (was: TARR, _The Gathering Storm_) I've actually read the first two books. I know some will disagree with me here, but the writing, I thought, was actually pretty good. The plot is pretty simple. The rapture occurs (true Christians are caught away and suddenly disappear. A pastor who is "Left Behind" figures out he needs to do something to get himself back on track and, together with several others, he forms a "Tribulation Force" (the name of the second book), where they're hot on the trail of the anti-Christ. If you view it all as imaginative fiction, it isn't bad. I can't agree with the theology. The immese popularity of the series has been a publishing phenomenon. I've given some thought to why this has sold so well, and I think it's because it represents a theological soap opera of the highest order. The story doesn't demand much of the reader, and there are enough interesting characters to keep the reader's attention. I'll look forward to other responses in this thread. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 20:17:11 JST From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) Vote My pick for Best Mormon Novel of the 90s is Margaret Blair Young's "House Without Walls" (Deseret, 1991). It was a tough choice, with another four books close on its tail. House Without Walls is about everything I could hope for in a novel. It has deep, interesting characters, an engrossing story, and a spirit of hope rising above unspeakable tragedy. Young doesn't give us easy answers or conclusions. She takes on big, big themes, but still is able to write a book that would not, I think, scare off the average Mormon reader. And I just plain old felt great (albeit sad) after reading it. It is a deeply religious book, and it has a great spirit about it. Harlow wrote a column last year about some of the symbolism in the book. I didn't catch most of it at the time, but now I'm even more impressed. While I might be reluctant to recommend some of the other great Mormon novels to certain people for one reason or another, I wouldn't be reluctant to recommend this book to anyone. Good for Deseret Book for publishing it. I'd like to see them do some more of this quality. Here are the four books that came close to winning my vote. I recommend them all heartily. 1. Margaret Young's "Salvador" (Aspen, 1992). It is really just as good, although its appeal is a bit narrower, since it contains several very quirky Mormon characters doing strange things. But, wow, what a great book. Also, the fact that both of Young's books are set largely in foreign cultures (Germany in HWW, El Salvador in Salvador) wins points with me. 2. I am a huge Orson Scott Card fan. The quantity and quality of material the man puts out is amazing. He has published about three novels every two years throughout the decade, and I've devoured them all. He can combine discussion of deep, difficult topics with exciting plot and fun dialogue as well as anyone I've read. "Pastwatch: The Redemption of Christopher Columbus" (TOR, 1995) was my favorite, with "Xenocide," (1991) and "Lost Boys" (1992) right behind. And most of the rest, too. Only "Treasure Box", "Homebody" and "Children of the Mind" were clunkers, and even they were good reads. They just didn't stay with me at all after I read them. 3. Kidd, Kathryn. "Paradise Vue" Hatrack, 1990. A hilarious book, and more. I wish she'd stop writing non-fiction, as she has done the last five years or so, and get back to writing fiction. 4. Fillerup, Michael. "Beyond the River" Signature, 1995. Complex writing, complex characters, interesting stuff. Things bog down a little in the middle, and I'm tired of reading books about writers who are having trouble writing. Still, a great book. Other books from the list I recommend: Parkinson, Benson. "The MTC: Set Apart" Aspen, 1995. B+ Great characters and characterization. The book structure forced the plot to go a little slow, but that will probably get better in the next book, since they are going "Into the Field". Palmer, Susan. "The Tabernacle Bar" Signature, 1995. B The reader starts out thinking that the book is going to be quite anti-Mormon, since the main protagonist is an ex-member who is sick of the Cache Valley environment in which she grew up. Some interesting characters show up, though, and it becomes more complex. A pretty good book. Barber, Phyllis. "And the Desert Shall Blossom" University of Utah, 1991. B- Very interesting book about a dirt poor Mormon family in the depression going to work on the Hoover Dam. In fell apart for me in the last quarter at about the same time the family fell apart. Smith, Robert Farrell. "The Miracle of Forgetness" Aspen, 1997. B- Funny, funny stuff. The prose and lack of depth keeps it a notch below Kidd. But it is a fun read. The same can be said about his other books. I also read Pam Blackwell's "Ephriam's Seed" and "Jacob's Cauldron" (1996, 1998), the first two in a moderately interesting series set in the Last Days. It is less didactic then the handful of other "last days" books I've looked at (but haven't bothered to read) by Mormon authors, and the alliance of Tibetan Buddhists and the Mormons was fun. But the characters aren't much more than cardboard, and the prose isn't too hot--it actually gave me a headache through parts of the first book. C Novel from the 1990s I plan on reading someday: Kirn, Walter. "Thumbsucker" Broadway, 1999. Brown, Marilyn. "Royal House" Covenant, 1994. (or something by her) Taylor, Curtis. "The Invisible Saint" Stanley Curtis Publishing, 1990. Van Wagoner, Robert Hodgson. "Dancing Naked" Signature, 1999. Wolverton, Dave. "Serpent Catch" Bantam, 1991. - -----, (As David Farland) "The Runelords" series, St. Martins, 1998-1999. Peterson, Levi. "Aspen Maroney" Signature, 1996. Hughes, Dean. "Children of the Promise" series, Deseret, 1997-1999. Excuse my ramblings, Andrew Hall Nagareyama, Japan ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #78 *****************************