From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #178 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Tuesday, October 24 2000 Volume 01 : Number 178 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:36:35 -0600 From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] Mormon Science Fiction Authors (Dallas Morning News) The Dallas Morning News has an article about Mormons writing science fiction. It can be accessed at http://www.dallasnews.com/religion/195918_scifi_21rel.AR.html The newspaper article came out Saturday, October 21, 2000. Front page of the religion section, the photograph accompanying the story, with big print opening paragraphs, takes up most of the page. Inside, there are two photos of OSC. [Marny Parkin] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 12:51:58 -0400 From: Dean FH Macy Subject: [AML] What Lies Beneath - The Movie This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------07724CC91A24057D38C49D82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just got a great movie review from my niece who is apparently caught up in the college mentality at BYU. Or maybe I'm just a prude. Funny thing about the Church and movies. The policy is to stay away from "R" rated movies so a movie rated PG13 is okay. Right? What most LDS people fail to realize is that it's not the rating that is dangerous, it's what is in the movie that earns the rating that is. What Lies Beneath somehow made it through the "R" rating. Bribery I guess, because any film gets an "R" rating if the language contains at least one "F--- word. They missed this one. Basically the Church wants members to stay clear of movies that display heavy sex/nudity, profanity, blood & guts violence, bad attitudes, dysfunctional family situations and sensuality. Alcohol/Drugs - Mild Blood/Gore - Heavy Disrespectful/Bad Attitude - Extreme Frightening/Tense Scenes - Extreme Guns/Weapons - None Imitative Behavior - Mild Jump Scenes - Extreme Music (Scary/Tense) - Extreme Music (Inappropriate) - None Profanity - Heavy Sex/Nudity - Heavy Smoking - None Tense Family Scenes - Heavy Topics To Talk About - Moderate Violence - Heavy No, thanks. (www.screenit.com - not a Church affiliate) - --------------07724CC91A24057D38C49D82 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="deanmacy.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Dean FH Macy Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="deanmacy.vcf" begin:vcard n:-"Many people will walk in and out of your life, but;- only true friends will leave footprints in your heart." tel;pager:FILM: www.mp3.com/stations/one_christmas_eve tel;fax:603 924-4412 tel;home:603 924-4409 tel;work:603 924-4412 x-mozilla-html:TRUE url:http://www.newenglandtalent.org org:New England Talent, Ltd.;Child Artist Management version:2.1 email;internet:deanmacy@monad.net title:President and CEO note:SPECIALIZING IN THE MANAGEMENT OF EXCEPTIONAL CHILDREN IN VOCAL MUSIC adr;quoted-printable:;;14 Granite Street - =0D=0AStudio Five;Peterborough;New Hampshire;03458-1413;USA fn:Dean FH Macy, Lit.D. end:vcard - --------------07724CC91A24057D38C49D82-- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:27:56 GMT From: "Dallas Robbins" Subject: [AML] Wordcraft Writing List I just wanted to let everyone know of a great LDS writing list called Wordcraft. It tends to focus very much on the process of writing. We are have some great fun doing some fiction exercises and critiques. For those interested visit this link: http://www.topica.com/lists/wordcraft/prefs/info.html Dallas Robbins editor@harvestmagazine.com http://www.harvestmagazine.com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:42:31 -0200 From: "renatorigo" Subject: [AML] E-books What do you think about the e-books revolution into the publishing market? Here in Brazil we have e-publishers that works in this way: 1. You register yourself as a writer and send a work of yours (e-book) to the publisher. 2. Then company read your work and decide if it=B4s going to put or not your work in its site. 3. After putting the book in the site , the e-book will be avaible for download all over the world and people will pay a low price for the book...The value is divided between the publisher and the writer... 4. There=B4s no initial investment and you can first create a best seller on the web and after in the conventional bookstores... Do you have this in the US? Renato renatorigo@ig.com.br __________________________________________________________________________ Todo brasileiro tem direito a um e-mail gr=E1tis http://www.bol.com.br - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 15:55:59 -0600 (MDT) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Music > > But in nothing do we show our imperial stripe more clearly than in > > our music. > > > > "Good music" to a significant body of the church is what they hear > > in church, or on the spoken word, or during conference. Our > > hymns DO have some fine lyrics, but the music is generally horrible > > except for the tunes which we have lifted from the folk traditions of > > other countries, which are European. > > > And it is these hymns that we foist off on other cultures. Why, for > > example, do we, in the States never hear hymns based on the folk > > melodies of Ghana, or the Hopi, or the Central and South > > Americans? I'll tell you why? Because it would creep most > > middle-class Americans out. I can argue one thing - in my experience teaching Laotions on my mission (I went stateside Lao speaking) - their culture has absolutely NO hymn tradition. There are some folk melodies - but no one in their culture has yet written Christian lyrics to them. In fact the only Christian hymn tradition they have is from Catholic and Protestants who traveled there and taught them the "Western hymns" because they had no hymns of their own. Once Laotions start writing their own hymns - I'm sure they can sing them - I've been told of wards in Africa that sing local hymns in church meetings. The main thing the church is doing is giving them what few hymsn we have so that they can have at least something to sing in a Christian/Mormon vein. - --Ivan Wolfe - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:51:41 -0600 From: David Hansen Subject: Re: [AML] Institutional Art Apparently I need to explain myself a little better in response to Eric, Scott and D. Michael. I believe the "mormon culture" (if it can be defined) is distinctly separate from the institutional church. However, as soon as you define the culture as "mormon" you immediately involve the institutional church. In other words, you can have the church without the culture, but not the culture without the church. (Did I do any better that time? Sigh.) I certainly could quibble with Scott on his examples on tradition v. doctrine. Mormon traditions, IMO, have some doctrinal basis or at least grow out of a doctrinal basis somewhere along the line. (His racism example comes directly out of denying the priesthood to those of African decent (for the most part) for the first 150 years after the Restoration.) While I agree that these "traditions" are not doctrinal per se, those traditions wouldn't exist without the church and its doctrines. My opinion on the church's support of the artists was somewhat of a response to Chris Bigelow's assertion that we should "take the culture back." The implication of Chris' post is that somehow the institutional church dislikes some kinds of art or music, and that we, the members, need to wrest the culture away from the institutional church to promote the "good" or at least "different" music and art. My point was that you can't do that on at least two levels. First, as I've already said, removing the institutional church from any cultural definition of "mormon culture" defines yourself right out of existence. Second, I wanted to point out that the Brethren, and even the institutional church, (whatever that really is) doesn't hate art and music. When I said the church wants to "support" the best artists out there, the word I should have used was "encourage." I agree with Eric that there is plenty of room for all and that the church only gives monetary support to a very few to suit its purposes. I guess my problem is that I've heard too many times the line that the brethren either hate or don't understand art or artists. (Usually its Elder Packer's name which is brought up from that fateful talk at BYU.) While I think that Eric is right that in the Supernacle you won't see controversial church subjects explored in great detail, I don't think you'll see as much overt propaganda as Eric makes it sound. Finally, as for the church supporting lawyers - anybody remember a time when being a lawyer was an excommunicable offense (OK, so it was the 1850's and 60's) and all disputes were resolved by home teachers (their original purpose), and church members were forbidden from voluntarily going to the civil courts of the United States? Ah, those were the days! I hope I made some headway clarifying those views (I'd hate for a lawyer not to be understood!). Dave Hansen with an E! (Eric spelled my name with an O, which I'm sure made his (and my) Danish ancestors turn over in their graves! :)) - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:31:43 -0700 From: Barbara@techvoice.com (Barbara R. Hume) Subject: Re: [AML] Institutional Art >Only doctrinal verities are "set" by the Church. Cultural verities >develop around what people think they are supposed to think, or what >their parents thought, or what feels comfortable to them ... that kind of >thing. I like your approach on this, Scott. I find myself asking people where certain of our standard ways of doing things come from, and they can't tell me. Why do we have babies and toddlers in our worship services? Why is there no cry room any more? What's this about taking the sacrament with your right hand? Why do our steeples look like needles? Where in the modern scriptures are these things to be found? I asked my bishop why women are supposed to always wear skirts and dresses no matter what the weather. I asked him if he thought women need to be visibly labeled as "other." He thought about it for a minute and then said, "If you wear a pantsuit to church, I won't throw you out." Good on the bishop--he smoothly put the ball back into my court! Someone told me the other day that Catholic women wear jeans to church. Maybe one day I will wear one of my comfortable outfits to church instead of one that requires pantyhose, and see whether I am instantly released from my Gospel Essentials teaching calling. barbara hume - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 18:15:43 -0600 From: "Richard R. Hopkins" Subject: Re: [AML] Contacting Lee Nelson He's with CFI (Cedar Fort, Inc.), which is in Springville, and often lists under Bonneville Books, or something like that. I think he can be reached there, or they can reach him. Richard Hopkins - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: (No, or invalid, date.) From: "Marilyn & William Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Introductions: Dave Hansen Nice to meet you, David! Did you mention which instrument? Violin? Cello?= Not that it matters a lot, just curious. We're so glad to have you aboar= d! Come see us at our meeting in February--maybe contact John Bennion = (john_bennion@byu.edu) and write us a paper about music, etc. We need som= e different faces! Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:42:14 -0400 From: "Debra L. Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] What Lies Beneath - The Movie A film can also be rated PG-13 with the use of the F-word. And from what I heard, the film stunk. Debbie Brown - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dean FH Macy - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:39:15 -0600 From: "Richard R. Hopkins" Subject: Re: [AML] What Lies Beneath - The Movie - ----- Original Message ----- From: Dean FH Macy To: Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 10:51 AM Subject: [AML] What Lies Beneath - The Movie > Basically the Church wants members to stay clear of movies that display > heavy sex/nudity, > profanity, blood & guts violence, bad attitudes, dysfunctional family > situations and > sensuality. > > Alcohol/Drugs - Mild > Blood/Gore - Heavy > Disrespectful/Bad Attitude - Extreme > Frightening/Tense Scenes - Extreme > Guns/Weapons - None > Imitative Behavior - Mild > Jump Scenes - Extreme > Music (Scary/Tense) - Extreme > Music (Inappropriate) - None > Profanity - Heavy > Sex/Nudity - Heavy > Smoking - None > Tense Family Scenes - Heavy > Topics To Talk About - Moderate > Violence - Heavy > > No, thanks. (www.screenit.com - not a Church affiliate) > Not to be too iconoclastic, but I'm afraid I can't agree with the above, and I think it reflects too prudish a view in the Church. What the brethren have specifically asked us to avoid are movies that are "vulgar, degrading, immoral, suggestive or pornographic." I did not find "What Lies Beneath" to fall into any of these categories. There was immorality, but the message of the movie was that immoral behavior exacts a price. Thus, the movie itself was not immoral, but, like many biblical stories, it advocated morality. Were I to adopt the standard set above, I would have no choice but to reject most of the Old Testament. Richard Hopkins - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:01:56 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] What Lies Beneath - The Movie For the record. No film in which Michelle Pfeiffer stars can ever stink. Thom Duncan - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:48:22 -0600 From: Eileen Subject: Re: [AML] Institutional Art > Good on the bishop--he smoothly put the ball back into my court! Someone > told me the other day that Catholic women wear jeans to church. Maybe one > day I will wear one of my comfortable outfits to church instead of one that > requires pantyhose, and see whether I am instantly released from my Gospel > Essentials teaching calling. Barbara don't do it! I stopped wearing outfits that require pantyhose 16 years ago and I have not held less than 3 callings at a time....;) I am teaching both Relief Society and Gospel Doctrine right now to pay for my audacity. :) Eileen Stringer - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 10:07:43 -0600 From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Music Richard says: That said, I have a stack of MoTab albums which I play often-especially in the Christmas season. I have one recording which no one else seems to have of the MoTab singing Beetoven's Ninth and it is breathtaking. (Among my very favorite choral works is the Ninth, and _Carmina Burana_-- I think I would kill for a MoTab _Carmina Burana_ with a good orchestra.). I Roy responds: With all due respect, I disagree. Unfortunately the choir sang under the direction of Eugene Ormandy, who conducted the Ninth like he was conducting a funeral dirge. Of course that was typical Ormandy. It is THE most awful rendition my ears have ever been subjected to (except for a $1.99 version I picked up at Media Play). While the choir does some things well, most of the time they sound like the Lennon Sisters, everything sounds like everything else they do. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:36:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Darlene Young Subject: Re: [AML] Institutional Art Barbara Hume said: I asked my bishop why women are supposed to always wear skirts and dresses no matter what the weather. I asked him if he thought women need to be visibly labeled as "other." He thought about it for a minute and then said, "If you wear a pantsuit to church, I won't throw you out." Good on the bishop--he smoothly put the ball back into my court! Someone told me the other day that Catholic women wear jeans to church. Maybe one day I will wear one of my comfortable outfits to church instead of one that requires pantyhose, and see whether I am instantly released from my Gospel Essentials teaching calling. I moved to a ward outside of Utah in the Bay Area to discover that dresses at church for women were cultural and not doctrinal. (Several women wore pants to church every week.) During the four years I was in that ward, this cultural difference was pointed out only once, at an RS Board meeting by a fanatical Utah transplant who wondered if someone ought to correct these women. The whole thing made me re-evaluate who belongs at church and what the core of the gospel really is (dresses or tolerance?). This very friction between culture and doctrine is prime area for exploration in LDS fiction. And some of our most successful (IMO) literature uses it extremely effectively. I always return to my favorite irreverents, Levi Peterson and Neal Chandler, but it is amazing what they have done in their stories: creating testimony-affirming literature by turning our culture on its head. The Cowboy Jesus was moving to me not in spite of but BECAUSE he stood outside of cultural norms. Both of these authors seem to say, "All this, and underneath the gospel is true. See?" This is what our church needs, and who but authors are in a better position to point it out? ===== Darlene Young __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: (No, or invalid, date.) From: "Marilyn & William Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Playwriting Contest Hooray! Now we should have our Shakespeares coming forward by the dozens!= Of course we already have some playwrights in our midst, but those of = you who have never tried it, this is your chance! I'm expecting at least = one comedy from Eric Snider! And some musicals from Cathy Wilson and Chri= s Bigelow! how about it, everyone! MB - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:50:07 EDT From: "Rex Goode" Subject: Re: [AML] What Lies Beneath - The Movie I grew up Mormon and I grew up on horror. As a boy, I loved scary movies and I quickly saw the difference between scary and gory. Scary movies I love. Gory movies are trash. It's very much like the difference between a love story and a sex story that tries to pass for a love story. A bloody story that tries to pass for a scary story leaves me sick rather than inspired. Yes, I said 'inspired.' Good horror, to me, explores moral issues in ways that another genre can't. The classic example is Mary Shelley's _Frankenstein_. Of course, I don't want them to answer moral questions, just raise them. I've never seen a stronger reaction to horror, as a genre, than right here on AML-List. Whenever I've said in the past that I appreciate good horror and wish that I wish there were some good Mormon horror stories, the response has been largely negative. Some have pointed me towards some stories that could rightly be classified as Mormon horror. "What Lies Beneath" is a good movie, but I agree in many respects, with people who think that some of it went too far. The sexual depictions were too explicit for my tastes, and unnecessary, but it was not deserving of more than a PG-13 rating. I still find the growing attitudes against R-rated movies difficult to buy. I don't see R-rated films, because I follow even when I don't see the reason, but the rating system seems grossly inadequate and inconsistent as a warning against scenes in a movie I'd rather not see. The ratings posted by Dean Macy don't match my memory of the movie, though. "Sex/Nudity - Heavy" doesn't seem like a fair judgment unless I dozed during those parts. Not likely. I don't recall the profanity being heavy, either. "Disrespectful/Bad Attitude" seems like a strange measure. I've never seen anyone in the official Church tell me to avoid dysfunctional family situations. It's a good thing. I would have had to run away from home as a child, and then again as a father. What does "Imitative Behavior" measure? I don't mind seeing smoking or drinking in a movie, either. People do smoke and drink, people right in front of us. I don't avoid such people. I really appreciate good fright, intensity, and yes, the obligatory jump scenes. I took my kids to see "What Lies Beneath." I might be a really terrible father, because they enjoyed it and I was glad. I won't take my wife. I don't like fingernails dug into my arm during jump scenes. Rex Goode _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: (No, or invalid, date.) From: "Marilyn & William Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Contacting Lee Nelson I am SO HAPPY to contact Lee for you, as I see him every day. So just sen= d me a message, and I'll take it. wwbrown@burgoyne.com Then I'll get his= e-mail address and let you know what it is! Thanks! I like Lee. He is = your amazing buffalo hunter type. Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:21:23 GMT From: Jeffrey Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Contacting Lee Nelson Many thanks. I've contacted CFI and am waiting for a response from them= . I appreciate the help of all who responded to this question. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:30:27 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] What Lies Beneath - The Movie A few comments, while I promise to be good during a discussion of my = personal bete noire, the ratings system. >Lies Beneath somehow made it through the "R" rating. Bribery I >guess, = because any film >gets an "R" rating if the language contains at least one "F--- >word. = They >missed this one. This used to be true. It isn't anymore. The absurdity of this silly rule = finally dawned on a few people, and nowadays films can include a couple of = F-bombs before they become an R. I couldn't cite any examples, because I = don't know what the ratings are for the films I view. Ever. But I know = it's happened a few times. =20 >Basically the Church wants members to stay clear of movies that >display = heavy sex/nudity, I think this is right. And from the Church's standpoint, this is probably = a reasonable standard. Nudity and sexual content is, to me, offensive or = inoffensive depending entirely on context. But I also don't want my kids = to watch films with extended nude scenes in them.=20 >profanity, blood & guts violence, bad attitudes, dysfunctional >family = situations and sensuality. The fuse is lit, the bombs are placed . . . . Kablooiey I saw a film the other day that had all these things. The main character = swore all the way through it. The violence was exceedingly graphic, = including a torture scene where a guy got his eyes poked out. Almost all = the characters had terrible attitudes and the family portrayed couldn't = have been more dysfunctional. And several scenes had strong sexual and = sensual undercurrents, especially scenes between a married woman and a = single man. The film was called King Lear, and it starred Laurence = Olivier.=20 What's with this dysfunctional family stuff? Take away dysfunctional = families, and drama absolutely disappears. Tennessee Williams out the = door. Arthur Miller, get lost. Ditto Moliere, ditto Sophocles, ditto = Racine, ditto Ibsen (in spades) ditto every other playwright I can think = of. Shakespeare only wrote about one happy marriage in all his plays. = (There are happy courtships, but only one happy marriage). It's the = marriage between Lady and Lord Macbeth. We HAVE to write about dysfunction= al families. The single biggest problem in contemporary filmmaking today = is that they don't portray anywhere near enough dysfunctional families. = Latter-day Saints especially should see as many films about dysfunctional = families as they can be dragged to. Bishops should pick out twenty or = thirty good films about dysfunctional families and require their congregati= ons to see them. We should have ward activities centered around seeing = films about dysfunctional families. Rule number one of dramatic and cinematic art: portrayal does NOT suggest = advocacy. Rule number two: all stories must have, at their heart, a conflict. =20 Rule number three: The higher the stakes, the better the story. In action = films, there aren't actually any characters to speak of, so we have to = artificially raise the stakes by having the bad guy about to blow up the = world or something. But in better, truer work, the stakes must be high = for characters we have come to care about. A family is a rare and = precious thing. So many of the very best films are about families at = risk.=20 Rule Four: At the moral center of dramatic story-telling is the notion = that audiences can and must learn from bad examples. The purpose of drama = is NOT to show good people behaving themselves. The purpose of most great = drama is to show ordinary people, like us, neither particularly good or = spectacularly horrible, making mistakes, and to also show the consequences,= personal or cosmic, of those mistakes. =20 Back to the list: >Alcohol/Drugs - Mild Irrelevant. =20 >Blood/Gore - Heavy =20 As in King Lear, Hamlet, Macbeth, Othello, Coriolanus, Oedipus the King, = Antigone. . . . >Disrespectful/Bad Attitude - Extreme Sounds like a film with lots of excellent conflicts to explore. >Frightening/Tense Scenes - Extreme I should hope so. It's a thriller. =20 =20 >Guns/Weapons - None Irrelevant. >Imitative Behavior - Mild Well, Aristotle argued that mimesis is at the heart of drama, an imitation = of a human action. I suppose that this film, like all films, actually = includes imitative behavior from the beginning of it to the end. =20 >Jump Scenes - Extreme I don't know what this is, but I assume it's a scene where someone jumps = out at someone else. Absolutely essential for a thriller to have a few of = these. I'll be sure to see this with my wife; she hugs me during jump = scenes.=20 =20 >Music (Scary/Tense) - Extreme I should hope so. =20 >Music (Inappropriate) - None I don't know that this means either. All music is appropriate to certain = settings, occasions and, in films, scenes. Sounds like they did a good = job here. =20 >Profanity - Heavy I say this is irrelevant to the moral impact of a film. But I know that = this is an issue some people feel strongly about. Surely this is a matter = about which reasonable people can disagree. =20 >Sex/Nudity - Heavy See above comment. =20 >Smoking - None Irrelevant. =20 >Tense Family Scenes - Heavy This is the most positive recommendation you could possible give a film. =20 >Topics To Talk About - Moderate I suspect that this isn't all that true. All films, in my experience, can = lead to the most interesting discussions. Not all do. =20 >Violence - Heavy Well, sure. It's a thriller. Sounds like a good film. I'll be sure to see it. Thanks for this very = positive recommendation. Eric Samuelsen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:37:25 -0600 From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] Institutional Art on 10/23/00 4:51 PM, David Hansen at hpalaw3@wasatch.com wrote: > When I said the church wants to "support" the best artists out there, the > word I should have used was "encourage." I agree with Eric that there is > plenty of room for all and that the church only gives monetary support to a > very few to suit its purposes. I guess I'm agreeing, but I wouldn't go so far as to say the church even "encourages" artists. Except for those hired to do church films, art for the magazines, CES stuff (this has sometimes included me), the encouragement the official church gives to artists is to quote (I mean this quite literally) the late President of the U. S., Martin Van Buren... "Your cause is just but....." Which is exactly as it should be. The church exists to save souls and uses art as a tool when needed. However, the institutional church should not go out of its way to squash artists, which it occaisionally (sp?) and unintentionally does. Does this sound contradictory to you? On the one hand Apostles and Prophets have called for and dreamed of the creation of great saint-written works of art--new hymns of the restoration, oratorios, etc (I'm focusing on musical literature here). On the other hand, only the approved hymns are allowed (even for choirs) in most sacrament meetings. Meaning that if anyone ever writes a great hymn of the restoration it won't be heard in church. Now I know the handbook doesn't say "never anything but the approved hymns," but most bishops interpret it that way to be safe--believe me, I get commiserating phone calls from music people all over the U. S. I just say, "follow your leader." However, in one of my current callings I am stake music director and to my great joy, both my stake pres. and bishop have had me write original choral works on the scriptures used as themes in stake and ward conferences. (Bless them!) But before asking me, the stake president made sure it was a stake conf. where no GA would be attending. When a GA is present the instructions we get are clear--"only hymns from the hymnbook." I think I just mixed several subjects together. Sorry. Steve _ _ _ _ _ skperry@mac.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 11:53:48 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Institutional Art First of all, I'd like to apologize to Dave Hansen for misspelling his = name. My Norwegian grandfather, who stubbornly resisted an Ellis Island = official's suggestion that he change his name to Samuelson, would be = appalled at my insensitivity. =20 >I believe the "mormon culture" (if it can be defined) is distinctly = >separate from the institutional church. However, as soon as you >define = the culture as "mormon" you immediately involve the >institutional church. = In other words, you can have the church >without the culture, but not the = culture without the church. (Did I >do any better that time? Sigh.) I think I disagree with this pretty stenuously. I remember an article in Sunstone a few years ago, where a member of the = Utah Legislature said that the "Church" was the single biggest influence = on what sorts of legislation passed and which ones failed. Did "The = Church" ever lobby for particular bills? No. Did The Church make = pronouncements that resulted in certain bills being passed or rejected. = Very rarely. So how did the Church influence legislation? Because in = every private conversation this legistator had with his colleagues, they = would say "what will my ward members think if I vote for this." So The = Church, as an institution, was almost completely apolitical in Utah. But = Church culture was the single most important factor in how legislators = voted. =20 I think the culture and the institution can be described as two large = circles, part of which overlap, and most of which do not. So Mormons tend = to eat at McDonalds a lot. There are, per capita, a lot of McDonalds = restaurants in Utah. Does the Church support the eating of Big Macs? No. = But the Church has traditionally been located in Utah, and Utah's in the = Western part of the US, and the Western US tends to eat a lot of beef. = Mormon culture is tied to McDonalds culture, but there's no institutional = connection at all (or is there? The last three letters in McDonalds are = LDS. Coincidence?) and a good case could be made that Big Macs violate = at least the spirit of the Word of Wisdom. And I say that, knowing I ate = one yesterday, and will likely eat another tomorrow. And I'm not even going to touch the jello issue. Eric Samuelsen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 12:48:13 -0600 From: "Cathy Wilson" Subject: Re: [AML] What Lies Beneath - The Movie I didn't like What Lies Beneath because it tricked me. The Harrison Ford character had NO foreshadowing about how nasty and wicked he was. So he was characterized to shock and scare, a mean trick. I don't mind the accoutrements--the blood and gore, the immorality--it all does show that in the end you do pay for the bad that you do. But I felt that I was being scared without a purpose--everything was dark and scary and shocking even before you get to the really scary stuff. Also I hated it that the woman played dummy--WHY did she struggle to get the phone out of the pocket? Typical bad wriiting--a real person would have run for her life. Cathy (Gileadi) Wilson Editing Etc. 15 East 600 North Price UT 84501 - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 09:51:21 -0600 From: Tom Matkin Subject: Re: [AML] AML List renatorigo wrote: > > > Am I the only foreigner in this list? > I am a foreigner. But I enjoy the delight, indignity, frustration and relief (depending on my mood and circumstances) of usually not being recognized as being foreign. I blend into the crowd as long as I remember not to spell words like colour correctly or say "eh" when I should say "huh". In other words I am not a visible foreigner. I am an invisible foreigner. I suppose the only thing about being an invisible foreigner that ever makes my blood boil is to have my foreigness acknowledged and then dismissed as being without significance. Like the time when I was in the Salt Lake Mission home and the Mission President's wife graciously introduced all the "foreign missionaries" in our group, one from England and another from Germany, I believe. When I pointed out that I, and perhaps others, were foreigners as well, she was less embarrassed than confused. Wasn't I just Canadian? I had no right to claim the elevated status of genuine foreigner. (All this immediately after a detailed lecture on the importance of honouring the cultural differences of the people throughout the world that we were called to serve.) Does this mean anything to AML? I wonder. Could we say to Renato and each other, as Paul said: "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God?" Maybe that's what the Mission President's wife meant. Her refusal to acknowledge my foreigness was perhaps an act of uncommon Christian tolerance and acceptance of me.... No. I think she was just an insensitive American woman. Her view of Canadians was doubtless the national average - "They're just like us, aren't they? Only maybe a little overly polite and not quite so bright. Well really, why would anyone live way up there in the frozen north if they were smart." I return to the question of relevance. This may seem a complete departure from the question at hand but I think the following comments are relevant. We should be aware that the LDS world is a chaotic one. Taken as a whole, it practically has no form or substance except growth. Massive, powerful, unchallenged growth that destroys it's own roots and reinvents itself almost every instant like a malignancy. (Or perhaps like a stone rolling forth to fill the whole earth - I think I read that metaphor somewhere). Some of us suffer from an illusion that there is a monolithic static culture to which we belong and which was created out of the lives and sacrifices of our pioneer forebearers. One which we can analyze, write about, and live amongst with that leisurely careless diffidence, so beloved of the intellectual psyche. If we accept this illusion as reality we are missing the breathtaking excitement of being a part of the break neck head long lunging of this juggernaut into a new world. It is well that we remember, from time to time, the great diversity of the current LDS world and the very narrow spectrum of thought, experience, interest, and understanding that the AML list represents. Renato is a precious visible reminder of that fact. "Am I the only foreigner in this list?" Renato asks. Speaking for myself, there is at least one other. But I'm invisible, so I won't even mention it. Tom - -- Tom Matkin www.matkin.com (Romans 12:21) Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #178 ******************************