From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #188 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Tuesday, November 7 2000 Volume 01 : Number 188 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:14:09 -0700 From: "Richard R. Hopkins" Subject: [AML] Re: AML Writer's Conference > When you have written a > column, Eric, or when you are considering printing > something, Elbert, on what do you base your decision > about whether or not you've "gone too far"? With the > audience you write for, Eric, including people who > might misunderstand, do you rely on anything but your > own sense of propriety to judge what is OK to mock? > > How does a writer make such decisions? > > > ===== > Darlene Young This wasn't directed to me, but it's such a good question I hope you won't mind me sticking in my two cents. I have had a real problem in this area in the [distant?] past and have had to acknowledge that what I think is funny or clever is not alway tactful, and may even be offensive. This is not an issue of censorship, IMHO. It is one of communication, as Darlene suggests. Sometimes we communicate something we never intended. So, what I do with sentitive stuff, the stuff Darlene is talking about, is to run it past someone else whose tastes and insight differ from mine. This may include running "iffy" parts of a manuscript we intend to publish past some of the folks at Deseret Book, or running an essay I've written past my wife (who fortunately put up with my blunt and thoughtless nature until I could learn a little tact). Richard Hopkins - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 09:11:49 -0700 From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] Looking for Panelists (LTUE) I was asked to pass this along. Please respond to the address at the bottom or to me personally, not the list. Marny Parkin Hi, everyone! It's that time of year. Time to let me know if you're interested in being on a panel for "Life, the Universe and Everything." The symposium is March 1-3, 2001. Guests so far include: Harry Turtledove Tracy Hickman Jeanne Cavelos Sam Longoria I'm over both writing and media tracks, so if you are interested in either, please email me and let me know what type of panel/panels you'd like to be on. And I'll let you know what panels we end up with next month. :) And please let me know what times you'll be available. :) Charlie Harmon CharleneH@aol - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 10:13:49 -0500 From: "Todd Robert Petersen" Subject: Re: [AML] MN Mormons Oppose "Godspell" Nan McCulloch's point: > Scott Tarbet wonders if the teacher, who dismissed the students with BoM's > on their desks, could be considered an offensive liberal zealot. I don't > know the details, but is it possible the kids could have been flaunting > their BoM's, trying to make a statement or trying to get a rise out of their > teacher? is an excellent one. Isn't suggestion a lot like the kind of pride that got the folks in Missouri so enraged? Nan's point, which is a great one, is that things aren't always what they seem. I would add that there is always spin. It is part of living in a telestial world. - -- Todd Robert Petersen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 16:21:26 -0700 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: RE: [AML] MN Mormons Oppose "Godspell" While I don't agree with the reaction of the parents in the article, I couldn't help but think as I was lurking that they (the parents) are a bit misunderstood. I don't think they're the terrible people the discussion has made them out to be. I'm guessing that they are squeamish at taking something sacred and doing anything that might (in any way, shape, or form) profane or desecrate it. I haven't seen Godspell, but from what I've read on the list about it, I'm guessing I would personally enjoy it. However, I can easily understand how some people would not be able to see past the clowns, and think that the show is little more than a mockery of something they hold dear. I do find it ironic what people do and don't object to. When I was in _Joseph_ (I believe it was the first of the slew of such shows in Utah--honest--it was back in 91), I had a friend who refused to audition because she couldn't take the idea of "what if Christ were to walk in while I was on stage?" I asked myself the same question after making it into the play, and decided that I would smile bigger and dance harder. But she didn't say a word of complaint when I performed in _Fiddler on the Roof._ What made the difference? Is it the style? Again, this could go back to the Godspell issue (with clowns, an electric fence, etc.). The music in _Joseph_ is very fun, and some people might consider it irreverent or even disrespectful to a prophet of god. Apparently my friend did. The music in _Fiddler_ is more "reverent" (for lack of a better word), and granted, Tevye doesn't don an Elvis suit. But I still say that I had an intensely spiritual experience in both _Joseph_ and _Fiddler_. Annette Lyon ________________________________________________________ 1stUp.com - Free the Web Get your free Internet access at http://www.1stUp.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 19:06:04 MST From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: Re: [AML] Attention All Freelance Writers Thanks to all who offered advice (not to discourage others from proffering their advice as well, I just wanted to make sure I thanked you all for your thoughtful replies). I'll just continue to plug away (and now I have a few more sites to plug away on). Mostly I have been querying and sending things to whatever lead looks do-able from writersmarket.com (an article and some quizes for _All About You_, a magazine aimed at preteen girls, Salt Lake Magazine, a few greeting card companies, I'm racking my brain as to what I could write about for _Big World Magazine_ which doesn't pay much but looks like they would take on a person without published clips). I have been focusing on writing in particular, but I do have a degree in English and I have some experience with editing. Heaven only knows that editing from home would be better than my current job. (I hate the idea of having to be anyplace at 8 in the morning. Ugh. I could be working at 8, but to have to be presentable to the world...) Anyhow, thanks for the encouragement and advice. I will let you know when I am successful! Marianne Hales Harding _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 00:33:44 EST From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Mormons Oppose "Godspell" Scott Tarbet wonders if the teacher, who dismissed the students with BoM's on their desks, could be considered an offensive liberal zealot. I don't know the details, but is it possible the kids could have been flaunting their BoM's, trying to make a statement or trying to get a rise out of their teacher? Nan McCulloch _______________ The teacher claims (in one article I read) that they were only supposed to be reading "fiction". Larry Jackson ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 01:12:59 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] MN Mormons Oppose "Godspell" Todd Robert Petersen wrote: > What if the "right" thing (in > God's eyes) is to NOT do that play at that place and at that time? There > hasn't been much discussion at all about that, and it seems like an > important avenue of the discussion. How in the world is anyone supposed to know if that's true? Only by personal prayer and revelation--but if I start saying we can't produce that play because God revealed to me we shouldn't, I am being even more out of line than any of these other reactions that have been going on. I don't have the right to receive revelation for everybody else. All a person can say is, I don't feel like it's right for me. Allow others their own personal choice in the matter. After all, what if, in God's eyes, it was wrong for that one boy to perform in Godspell, but it was right for others to perform in it? > D. Michael Martindale's line comes at the point where > the play would attempt to represent the "true religion" of the people > putting it on. That's not my line. That's my concession to the idiotic interpretation of the first amendment with regard to religion that is imposed upon our school systems. If it were up to me, I would place no restrictions on what to perform based on which religion is the subject matter. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 16:21:20 -0700 From: Gabi Kupitz Subject: [AML] Annual Christmas Booktalk The Annual Christmas Booktalk takes place on Monday, 13 November 2000 at 4:00 p.m. in the Harold B. Lee Library Auditorium (Level 1). Janice Card, BYU Bookstore Children's Book Buyer, will discuss new titles. The event is free to the public and campus community. Earlier that day (same venue/10:00 a.m.), Orson Scott Card (yes, Janice and Scott are related) will be lecturing on "Scripture and Fiction." Book signing will take place in the BYU Bookstore following the lecture. Why not spend the day on campus? P.S. The BYU Bookstore Children's Book Week Sale started today. It will run through 18 November 2000 with some selected titles 25-60% off (limited to stock on hand). Have a great day! Gabi Kupitz Brigham Young University Harold B. Lee Library Room 6458 Provo, UT 84602 Phone: (801) 378-6735 FAX: (801) 378-3221 E-mail: gabriele_kupitz@byu.edu - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 01:36:25 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] Re: AML Writer's Conference Darlene Young wrote: > But when someone gets offended, Eric, > because they misunderstand, then haven't you failed to > communicate? So my question is this: knowing that > your audience is LDS and will sometimes misunderstand > you, how do you decide where to draw the line? Is it > the best policy for a writer to rely solely on her own > conscience when deciding whether something is harmless > play or possibly offensive? I'm no well-known columnist out offending General Authorities, but I've experienced the same thing on a much smaller scale. It's next to impossible to avoid such an experience if one does much communicating over the Internet. The scenario goes like this: I express an opinion. Someone is offended by it, and assumes that everyone should think like he does, therefore my expression of that opinion was evil. This scenario cannot be countenanced. I think it's obvious to any AML-Lister that there is a wide variety of opinions among intelligent, decent people, and assuming that everyone should think the way I do is merely a form of bigotry. I'm not talking about disagreeing with me and saying why. I'm talking about taking it one step further and questioning my character for thinking differently from someone else. I never worry (much) about whether I will offend anyone. I just say what I'm thinking. Occasionally it's gotten me into trouble, but in almost every case when that happens, it's because the offended person makes no attempt to understand what I meant. They merely assume I'm being evil when I said it, without even considering that I might be looking at things from a different angle where my opinion makes sense. I don't believe we have any obligation to cater to such an attitude. If we did, dialog would cease. Isn't the whole point of dialog to come to understand opinions different from ours, growing out of points of view that see things from a different angle than we do? Growth will never occur if we only speak with those who already think like us. People who refuse to hear opposing opinions, and complain about it when they do, should be pitied, but not indulged. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 01:45:48 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] Re: AML Writer's Conference "Eric D. Snider" wrote: > In other words, if people have been offended by my columns, they should see > what I DON'T put it! Is there a venue in which you could publish the things left out? I'd like to read them! - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 08:01:09 -0700 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] MN Mormons Oppose "Godspell" I consider these parents as "hyper-spiritual." That is, they are overly concerned, to the point of near-fanaticism with this issue. They react the way that old-time Pharasees did to the Law: sacrificing its spirit for micro-management of the finer points. Can we be too "spiritual?" According to a talk years ago by Dallin Oaks about "Gospel Hobbies," we can be. When we are so concerned about living the day-to-day aspects of the Gospel that we miss the big picture, we are too "spiritual." To bring this around to literature and the arts. The parents have another weakness that is not Mormon alone but largely cultural. They don't understand what the purpose of art is. Like many people who don't understand what a scientific theory is, many people don't understand that art has different rules by which it operates. The Holy Bible exploits these rules all over the place but most "hyper-spiritual" people don't know that. For instance, they think that, because the Bible tells the story of Job, that it must be an historical reality. In all likelihood, Job is a short story about a fictional meeting between God and Satan. (Mormons literalists should have a particularly hard time dealing with the doctrine that God, having once kicked Satan out of his Kingdom, later allows him back into his presence -- that doesn'st wash in Mormon doctrine.) There are other examples of the Bible using fictional tools to get across a greater point. Thom Duncan - ------------------------------------ My new email: ThomDuncan@prodigy.net - ------------------------------------ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #188 ******************************