From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #207 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Tuesday, November 28 2000 Volume 01 : Number 207 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 13:33:06 -0700 From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Shaken Faith and Truth (was: Real Life) On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 13:30:18 -0700, Christopher Bigelow wrote: >Responding to Jacob Proffitt: > ><<Irreantum fiction section because I read the first story and found that >while it was well enough written, I really dislike the faith-denuded = Mormon >experience narrative. I was afraid to try the next story for fear it = would >be along the same, quandary-loving vein.>>> > >As managing editor of Irreantum, let me just say that we publish stories= all across the spectrum, including some excerpts from novels published = by Deseret Book. To write off the magazine's fiction offerings because = one story doesn't fit your desired mode would be a mistake. Frankly, we = are by no means swimming in fiction submissions and are publishing at = least half if not the majority of what we receive, and we were = particularly honored to have a nationally prominent author like Paul = Rawlins let us consider one of his stories. It isn't that it is *one* story I dislike. It is that it was *the first* story. I used placement of stories as an indicator of editorial intent. Since you have no advertisers and you have no qualms starting a story mid column, I have to believe that you placed the available stories on some criteria of merit. So there must be a reason for putting Paul Rawlins' story first. I don't think I am out of line when I make assumptions = based on placement of that story. In this case, it seems that you favor the = stuff I hate and it makes me not trust your editorial judgement for the rest of the stories you chose to include. Personally, after reading all the fiction stories, I'd have put Dorothy Peterson's story first as it is not only the best written story (sorry = other authors, my true opinion), it is also the better Mormon story. Paul = Rawlins might be some national hot-shot, but do you really want to reward credentials over quality? Are the table scraps from the national author = to be privileged over the superior story by Dorothy? Since I can't trust you to cut the stories that I am coming to despise, I stand in need of some other guide. I was very serious when I said I am = sick of faithless Mormon stories. I am getting to the point where I would = rather miss quality fiction in order to avoid stories like Paul Rawlins'. I recognize that this is a matter of personal taste. I also realize that others on this list probably enjoy the stories I dislike so much and = might even go the other way and despise the stories I enjoy. That's to be expected, I suppose. What I need is some source I trust to review the stories before I get there. If I could have skipped Paul Rawlins and = gone straight to Dorothy Peterson I would have been a happy camper and all my posts would have been unnecessary. Volunteers anyone? Eric Snider you = out there? ><<<"Faith of the Fathers" is well written--well crafted--but I'm not = going to >read any more of these stories. And since that was the first fiction = story >in Irreantum, I assume that it is representative of what the editors = wanted >to present, so I just didn't bother with the others. My apologies to = those >authors, but I can't handle the continuing messages about my faith that = are >devoid of an active, loving, comforting God anymore.>>> > >Bad assumption. Like I said, we are covering the full spectrum of Mormon= lit. Tory Anderson is our fiction editor, and I don't know if he's on = this list, but I'm CCing him with this (and forwarding your original = message) in case he would like to respond. Bad assumption? What assumption was bad? Give me information if you = expect me to change my assumptions. My assumption is that the editors chose to = put Paul Rawlins' story first because it represents their evaluation of the = best they have to offer. You *always* put your best foot forward. Burying Dorothy Peterson in the middle was a shame. >>From my editorial in the winter '99-'00 issue: > > We do not intend to pigeonhole Irreantum as either culturally liberal = or conservative. We want to give orthodox books, authors, and presses as = much attention and respect as we give liberal books, authors, and = presses. We consider ourselves more free to explore a wide range of = Mormon literature than a magazine sponsored by BYU, for example, yet we = do not want to make mainstream LDS readers and writers uncomfortable with= our publication. We are seeking the middle ground, the temperate zones = between the equator of Church-sanctioned publishing and the nether poles.= That zone has room for active Mormons writing orthodox fiction (for = example, Gerald Lund), active or semiactive Mormons writing liberal = fiction for the Mormon market (Linda Sillitoe), active Mormons writing = fiction for national audiences (Orson Scott Card), inactive Mormons = writing for national audiences (Walter Kirn), and members of other faiths= writing about Mormon characters and themes (Tony Kushner). We are >interested in all literature by, for, or about Mormons and in general = literature seen through Mormon eyes. > >Therefore you will see reviews, essays, interviews, poetry, and fiction = in Irreantum from a wide variety of cultural perspectives. We hope that = if you encounter something in Irreantum that is either too spicy or too = bland for your tastes, you will trust the magazine to offer an overall = satisfying mix as time goes forward. Personally, I am most interested in = how Mormon authors and subjects are breaking into the national literary = scene. But I and other Irreantum staffers are also keenly interested in = the large and healthy industry that publishes products for the mainstream= LDS audience, and we hope Irreantum can influence the developing tastes = of those readers (so far the magazine is carried in about 20 LDS = bookstores).=20 If you are going to try to influence the developing tastes of readers, = you need to develop some trust with those readers. We the readers need to be able to understand what you will value and what you wont. In this issue,= it seems either a) you value faithless Mormon fiction over faithful Mormon fiction or b) you value credentialed authors over superior quality. = Either case makes me trust you less in informing my taste. With this last issue, my personal score card rates one story excellent, = one story repulsive and three others that were nice, but not outstanding. = Since your editorial decision privileged the repulsive (to me--I know this is a personal reaction and I'm being kind of blunt here, but trying to be = honest) story, I can't say that you have gained my trust that you will give me = "an overall satisfying mix as time goes forward". This probably ties back into the thread about not being able to please everybody--that no matter how much you try, you just can't get away = without some complaints. I hate that I am aligned in this discussion with those = who complain about stuff others find perfectly acceptable, but there you go. I guess my conclusion is that I'll see what happens in the next issue or = so. I wish I had a reviewer I can trust on the stories, or that you could categorize beyond the rather broad heading "Fiction" (how about a = "Faithless =46iction" and a "Faithful Fiction"? Uh, maybe not), but since I don't, = I have to base the expense of my time on my trust of the editors. Jacob Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 15:36:46 -0800 From: "Creative Actions" Subject: [AML] References to Native Americans in Mormon Lit. Hi. I'm doing a little research. Can any of you name me some works of Mormon lit. which make more than passing reference to Native Americans? I'd appreciate it. Thanks--Jacqui Garcia [MOD: Since I'm not sure if Jacqui is on AML-List, please copy her e-mail address--creativeactions@mcn.net--on any replies you send to the List.] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:32:32 -0500 From: "Tracie Laulusa" Subject: RE: [AML] Anti-Intellectualism Actually, I understand most of what you all have been posting on MPL. I love some of the lyrics Sam Payne has posted, trip over Elf's contributions here and there, and in general admire how capably you all throw the verses around-even the limericks. Would it be appropriate on either list (AML or MPL) to discuss some of the poetry that is being written-the whys and hows or something-especially of some of the stuff I'm having so much difficulty with? I'd dearly love for someone to enlighten me. Tracie Laulusa [MOD: Discussion of any published work of poetry within the realm of Mormon letters is certainly appropriate on this List. It would probably be most helpful if it is from a source such as _Irreantum_ that many of us can fairly easily get access to. I'd be a lot more leery of discussing unpublished work. We've always shied away from using AML-List as a critiquing group for unpublished work, not because that's bad but because it's better suited to a different forum than this, or vice versa. Occasionally we've allowed unpublished poetry to be posted for purposes of discussion or illustration, but I think that would need to be posted by the author, or at least with permission of the author, for that specific purpose. I'd be a lot happier if some examples can be taken from published sources.] - -----Original Message----- Tom "who confesses humbly and begs forgiveness for being one of those who has been regularly torturing Tracie with verse in the past year" Matkin - -- Tom Matkin - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:47:11 -0700 From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: [AML] Irreantum Fiction (was: Shaken Faith and Truth) Responding to Jacob:=20 Well, maybe it would be helpful to have the fiction editor write a little = introduction to the fiction section, describing each story a little and = orienting readers to it, maybe even explaining story order and mix a = little. I'm all for editorial openess that way and think it makes for a = more interesting, interactive magazine.=20 As far as the autumn issue's story order and putting Rawlins first, I = didn't personally make that decision (I'm not sure if it was the fiction = editor or the other comanaging editor), but I think it was appropriate = under the circumstances, although I also see your points. I wonder if most = readers place so much importance on story order? I'm more tuned in to what = we put on the cover, and I put a lot of thought into the juxtapositioning = of the Dutcher and Van Wagoner interviews and the priority coverage given = to Dutcher (in cover and order, not length---the Van Wagoner is quite a = bit longer). This kind of feedback is great, and I hope we get more of it. I wonder, = Jacob, if you would be willing to give us a letter compiled from your = posts (shortened) for publication in the next issue. Please? It would = really contribute to the balance we're trying to achieve and perhaps help = provoke other letters that can help us understand our readership better. Chris Bigelow - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:15:25 -0600 From: "Preston Hunter" Subject: [AML] Re: [AML-Mag] References to Native Americans in Mormon Lit. [MOD: Compilation post. FYI, "Thunderbird's Egg" is published in the anthology _Washed by a Wave of Wind_, ed. Shayne Bell, Signature Books, 1993. _Inuit_ was published as a separate short story paperback by Pulphouse in 1991, and I think in other locations as well.] Diann Thornley's "Thunderbird's Egg" is an excellent story totally focusing on a Navajo character. Author is LDS, but Mormons are only peripherally a part of the story. LDS author M. Shayne Bell's story "Inuit" is completely and authentically about Inuit (Eskimo) culture. - - Preston Hunter Preston Hunter - ---------- >Hi. I'm doing a little research. Can any of you name me some works of >Mormon lit. which make more than passing reference to Native Americans? I'd >appreciate it. Thanks--Jacqui Garcia - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:52:02 -0500 From: "Kent S. Larsen II" Subject: Re: [AML] Copyright Violations and EFM I don't know if I've mentioned this story on AML-list before. In my first job in Book Publishing here in New York City at Henry Holt and Co., I came across a story called "The Go Getter" by Peter B. Kyne. The plot line in "The Go Getter" is identical to an EFM story. I've never compared the stories to see if it were word-for-word, but I wouldn't be surprised. Its clear that "The Go Getter" is the original source. Now, this doesn't make it a copyright violation, but it might make it plagarism, since the EFM story doesn't do anything new or different with the story. FWIW, Kent - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:37:16 -0700 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Role of Inspiration in Art >Who actually >wrote this Chorus? It is unquestionably in Handel's style. Did he write it >in the pre-existence? Was he plagorizing, halucinating, or was his >pre-existent work revealed to him in this experience? Is that how >we receive >inspiration for our art? How do you suppose all this works? My opinion: Handel wrote every note. He did not write it in the pre-existence. His connection with God inspired him to mine depths in his creative mind and soul that he may not have otherwise been able to. Thom - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:05:05 -0700 From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: [AML] Introductions: Lu Ann Staheli - --------------0405B3556E693D1B9F9D06E9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I thought since I'm new to this list-serve and since I've actually been posting on occasion, I should take a minute to introduce myself as has been suggested earlier by the moderator and list members. My name is Lu Ann Brobst Staheli. I teach English, Creative Writing for Publication, and Reading is Fun at Payson Jr. High School. I was the 1999 Utah English/Language Arts Teacher of the Year and the Utah Christa McAuliffe Fellow, doing a project and working on a follow-up book about Contemporary Adolescent Literature for Parents and Teachers. I am the 2000 Juvenile Book Division Winner for the Utah Arts Council Original Writing Contest with my novel Just Like Elizabeth Taylor which is currently being sent by my agent to locate a publication home. This novel also won the 1999 League of Utah Writer's Children's Book category in their annual writing contest. My other novel Leona & Me, Helen Marie was the 2nd place winner. I've also won contests in articles, poetry, and screenplay in several venues. I've been involved in writing a long time and have been published both nationally and internationally in magazines such as Scouting, LDS Entertainment and Lifestyles, U.s and German Teen magazines, and the Church News. I was an Associate Producer for Alan Osmond's Stadium of Fire and wrote scripts for those shows for several years. I was a freelance editor, copy editor, and reader for Covenant Books for a couple of years, working under Valarie Holladay. I had the priviledge of working on some great books while there--On Wings of Love; Arianna: The Making of A Queen; Macady to name a few. I'm a member of the Spanish Fork Arts Council, the 2nd Vice-President of the Utah Council of Teachers of English, and past State President of the League of Utah Writers. (Have you discovered yet that I'm an over-achiever?) I'm an avid reader and participate in a local book club and a writing critique group (Annette Lyon is in my group). Adolescent literature is my absolute favorite, but I read an incredible amount of LDS fiction as well, always trying to keep my knowledge and skills up for writing, editing, and teaching about books. I live in Spanish Fork with my husband, who works in the movie industry, and our two sons (ages 6 & 7). I'm a native Hoosier and graduated from Indiana University (yes, I did like Bobby Knight.) I've been in Utah since 1983, so I guess this is as much home as anyplace. I look forward to getting to know more about each of you as I read your posts. Thanks for letting me be a part of this group. Lu Ann - --------------0405B3556E693D1B9F9D06E9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit      I thought since I'm new to this list-serve and since I've actually been posting on occasion, I should take a minute to introduce myself as has been suggested earlier by the moderator and list members.
     My name is Lu Ann Brobst Staheli. I teach English, Creative Writing for Publication, and Reading is Fun at Payson Jr. High School. I was the 1999 Utah English/Language Arts Teacher of the Year and the Utah Christa McAuliffe Fellow, doing a project and working on a follow-up book about Contemporary Adolescent Literature for Parents and Teachers.
     I am the 2000 Juvenile Book Division Winner for the Utah Arts Council Original Writing Contest with my novel Just Like Elizabeth Taylor which is currently being sent by my agent to locate a publication home. This novel also won the 1999 League of Utah Writer's Children's Book category in their annual writing contest. My other novel Leona & Me, Helen Marie was the 2nd place winner. I've also won contests in articles, poetry, and screenplay in several venues.
     I've been involved in writing a long time and have been published both nationally and internationally in magazines such as Scouting, LDS Entertainment and Lifestyles, U.s and German Teen magazines, and the Church News. I was an Associate Producer for Alan Osmond's Stadium of Fire and wrote scripts for those shows for several years. I was a freelance editor, copy editor, and reader for Covenant Books for a couple of years, working under Valarie Holladay. I had the priviledge of working on some great books while there--On Wings of Love; Arianna: The Making of A Queen; Macady to name a few.
     I'm a member of the Spanish Fork Arts Council, the 2nd Vice-President of the Utah Council of Teachers of English, and past State President of the League of Utah Writers. (Have you discovered yet that I'm an over-achiever?) I'm an avid reader and participate in a local book club and a writing critique group (Annette Lyon is in my group). Adolescent literature is my absolute favorite, but I read an incredible amount of LDS fiction as well, always trying to keep my knowledge and skills up for writing, editing, and teaching about books.
     I live in Spanish Fork with my husband, who works in the movie industry, and our two sons (ages 6 & 7). I'm a native Hoosier and graduated from Indiana University (yes, I did like Bobby Knight.) I've been in Utah since 1983, so I guess this is as much home as anyplace.
    I look forward to getting to know more about each of you as I read your posts. Thanks for letting me be a part of this group.
            Lu Ann - --------------0405B3556E693D1B9F9D06E9-- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:08:31 -0700 From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Irreantum Fiction (was: Shaken Faith and Truth) On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 16:47:11 -0700, Christopher Bigelow wrote: >I wonder if most readers place so much importance on story order? This is a good question. Fact is, I don't put a lot of importance on = story order. Except. Except when I'm getting to know the editorial opinions = of a new magazine. When I am getting to know a new publication (whether brand new or just new to me), I use every tool at my disposal to try to = understand their criteria so that I know what I can expect in the future. I don't = have a ton of time I can afford to waste on non-family, non-income producing endeavors. I've become kind of judgmental of my hobbies as a result. Jacob Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 20:24:15 -0800 (PST) From: Darlene Young Subject: Re: [AML] Shaken Faith and Truth (was: Real Life) I think you are too quick, Jacob, to throw words like "faithless" around. Because a story did not increase your faith, or because you failed to see how the characters in it could be faithful and still not respond to problems the way you would have does not mean that it is a faithless piece. (I also disliked your use of "repulsive," but since it obviously repulsed you, I cannot argue that point. I'm just sad that it seems that the only reason it repulsed you is the same reason that you called it faithless, which is a faulty label, IMO.) I thoroughly enjoyed the story and didn't see it as faithless at all. I believe that faith is an acting in the face of doubt, not just a knowing all the answers. This man didn't know how to help his daughter. I, as a survivor of the death of a family member, silently cheered when he did not give her all of the trite, overused "scriptural" cliches that roll so quickly off the tongues of well-meaning, "faithful" church members in the face of tragedy. Yes, having a clear view of the eternal scheme of things is comforting. Yes, the scriptures and prayer are comforting. But grief is real, even to the most diehard of believers, and it just isn't helpful to be told things like "God must have had a reason" and "It's all for the best" and "Don't worry, you'll see him again" and "This life is but a small moment." This faithful man saw with spiritual eyes that some griefs just have to be walked alone. I felt that he made an extremely wise choice by giving his daughter space and then letting her see the honest truth: that sometimes life just HURTS. This is not a lack of faith. This is seeing clearly. All I can tell from your protests, especially when you ask "Could we see the hand of God at all?" is that the story was rotten because this father did not respond the way you think a "faithful" father would, and because nothing else in the story intervened to relieve this daughter of her pain. Is that what you are saying? What sort of intervention, I wonder, would have made this a "faithful" story to you? And how realistic would this intervention have been? For me and for many readers, a story that is not shy about showing the true pain of life is a thousand times more powerful in building faith than one which feels preachy or too idealistic. ===== Darlene Young __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 03:52:56 GMT From: Jeffrey Needle Subject: [AML] JOHNSON & LEFFLER, _Jews and Mormons: Two Houses of Israel_ (Review) Review =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Frank J. Johnson and Rabbi William J. Leffler, "Jews and Mormons: Two=20= Houses of Israel." 2000, Hoboken, New Jersey, Ktav Publishing House Inc. Hardback, 206 pages + appendices, $24.95 Review by Jeffrey Needle Johnson and Leffler were, according to the preface, roommates at=20 Dartmouth College in the late 1940's and early 1950's. They maintained = a=20 correspondence after graduation, and decided finally to reflect some of = their discussions in this intensely interesting book. Johnson is a=20= High Priest is the Mormon church, and thus comes to the discussion from = a=20 rather orthodox point of view. Leffler, on the other hand, is a Reforme= d=20 Rabbi, arguably one of the most liberal branches of Judiasm.=20 The first eight chapters alternate between the two writers; the ninth is= =20 a summary chapter titled "Areas of Misunderstanding and Discussion." It must be seen first that this book is amazingly accessible. The=20 subject matter is such that it could easily get bogged down in arcane=20= discussions of belief and practice. Instead, the presentations are=20 cogent and convincing, each man reflecting his point of view with=20 respect, but with conviction. Rabbi Leffler - ------------- Rabbi Leffler captures the essence of the Jewish/Mormon dialogue in what= =20 I considered a key observation: "As the reader will see in Mr. Johnson's chapters, he frequently present= s=20 a dichotomy of right or wrong, true or false. Mormonism tends to view=20= the world in this fashion. There are few gray areas; very little=20 ambivalence. It is an either/or approach to life's questions and=20 situations. In sharp contrast, Judaism's approach is both/and. We tend= =20 to see nuances, options, alternatives in many of life's challenges. As = a=20 result, Judaism may well encompass conflicting views on the same subject= =20 without feeling a need to accept one and negate the other." (p. 3) He enlarges later: "...there is no formalized set of beliefs that all Jews will or must hol= d=20 and must affirm in some public way in order to be Jewish. However, the = lack of defined belief does not mean that there are no central Jewish=20= religious ideas. There are myriads. Rather it means that conformity of= =20 belief is not a part of Judaism or of being a Jew. Thus if one were to = ask, 'What do Jews believe about such-and-such?', there would be no=20 single anser, no dogma, accepted by all Jews." (p. 43) Rabbi Leffler's explication of Judaism is just plain excellent, no other= =20 word will do. As a Jew, I especially appreciated his broad understandin= g=20 of the wide range of Jewish belief and practice. As a Jewish convert to Christianity, however, he did make me squirm a=20= bit. He is unequivocal in his rejection of the idea of an individual=20= converting to any other system of religion and still considering himself= =20 a Jew, as I do. In speaking of the instances wherein a person can be=20= excluded from the Jewish community: "This is the situation with any group or person that declares that one=20= can be Jewish and at the same time hold a belief in Jesus as the Messiah= ,=20 a doctrine central to Christianity and totally rejected by Judaism. To = many Christians, this parameter is confusing because, as we have pointed= =20 out, Judaism does not require theological conformity or agreement to be = a=20 Jew. Nonetheless the affirmation of the core belief of another religion= =20 is beyond the parameter." (p. 139) Mr. Johnson - ----------- Johnson, the Mormon High Priest, likewise presents his faith in a way=20= totally familiar to most LDS. His reading of the history and the=20 doctrine are standard stuff, but will likely be found very interesting b= y=20 Jewish readers who may pick up this book. (Note that Ktav Publishing=20= House is a Jewish concern, assuring that this book will likely find its = way into the hands of many who would never step into an LDS bookstore.)= Unlike Rabbi Leffler, I thought that Johnson made a few missteps, at=20= least one very regrettable. Perhaps my Jewish sensibilities are too=20= sharp to have missed this, but I also note that Leffler, in a chapter=20= preceding Johnson's missteps, warns there reader that some of what=20 Johnson has to say may be "offensive" to some Jews. Sadly, I have to=20= agree. I'll mention the one that really caught my attention. The first appendi= x=20 to the book is the full text of Orson Hyde's dedicatory prayer in=20 Jerusalem in 1841. Johnson, in observing this notable visit and=20 dedication, states: "Mormons see the gathering of the Jews to the State of Israel primarily = as a political event rather than a spiritual one, but many Latter-day=20= Saints follow events there with particular interest. Orson Hyde's=20 dedicatory prayer in Jerusalem in 1841, petitioning the Lord for the=20= return of 'Judah's scattered remnants' to the land of Palestine, makes=20= Mormons the first Zionists, well ahead of the Jewish political Zionists = of the late nineteenth century." (p. 162) Let's begin with a look at Talmage's "Articles of Faith," and his=20 understanding of the gathering of Israel: "Book of Mormon Prophecies=97The gathering of Israel claimed the attenti= on=20 of many prophets whose teachings are recorded in the Book of Mormon, and= =20 not a little direct revelation concerning the subject is preserved withi= n=20 the pages of that volume. We have noted Lehi's discourse in the valley o= f=20 Lemuel, in which that patriarch-prophet compared the house of Israel to = an olive-tree, the branches of which were to be broken off and scattered= ;=20 now we may add his prediction regarding the subsequent grafting-in of th= e=20 branches. He taught that, "after the house of Israel should be scattered= =20 they should be gathered together again; or, in fine, after the Gentiles = had received the fulness of the Gospel, the natural branches of the=20 olive-tree, or the remnants of the house of Israel, should be grafted in= ,=20 or come to a knowledge of the true Messiah, their Lord and their Redeeme= r." " James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., = 1981], 301.) And further: "Among the most comprehensive predictions regarding the restoration of=20= the Jews is this utterance of Nephi: "Wherefore, the Jews shall be=20 scattered among all nations; yea, and also Babylon shall be destroyed;=20= wherefore, the Jews shall be scattered by other nations. And after they = have been scattered, and the Lord God hath scourged them by other nation= s=20 for the space of many generations, yea, even down from generation to=20= generation until they shall be persuaded to believe in Christ, the Son o= f=20 God, and the atonement, which is infinite for all mankind=97and when tha= t=20 day shall come that they shall believe in Christ, and worship the Father= =20 in his name, with pure hearts and clean hands, and look not forward any = more for another Messiah, then, at that time, the day will come that it = must needs be expedient that they should believe these things. And the=20= Lord will set his hand again the second time to restore his people from = their lost and fallen state. Wherefore, he will proceed to do a marvelou= s=20 work and a wonder among the children of men." " James E. Talmage, Articles of Faith [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., = 1981], 302.) I find it a bit difficult to understand Johnson's feeling that Mormons=20= are "the first Zionists." And I think real Zionist's would object to=20= this characterization. The prayer of Orson Hyde says much on this=20 matter: "Grant, therefore, O Lord, in the name of Thy well-beloved Son Jesus=20= Christ, to remove the barrenness and sterility of this land, and let=20= springs of living water break forth to water its thirsty soil. Let the=20= vine and olive produce in their strength, and the figtree bloom and=20 flourish. Let the land become abundantly fruitful when possessed by its = rightful heirs; let it again flow with plenty to feed the returning=20 prodigals who come home with a spirit of grace and supplication upon it;= =20 let the clouds distil virtue and richness, and let the fields smile with= =20 plenty. Let the and the greatly and upon the mountains and the hills= ;=20 and let Thy great kindness conquer and subdue the unbelief of Thy people= .=20 Do Thou take from them their stony heart, and give them a heart of flesh= ;=20 and may the Sun of Thy favor dispel the cold mists of darkness which hav= e=20 beclouded their atmosphere. Incline them to gather in upon this land=20= according to Thy word. Let them come like clouds and like doves to their= =20 windows. Let the large ships of the nations bring them from the distant = isles; and let kings become their nursing fathers, and queens with=20 motherly fondness wipe the tear of sorrow from their eyes." (Quoted in:) (N. B. Lundwall, Temples of the Most High [Salt Lake City: = Bookcraft, 1993], 256 =96 257.) For Mormons, as with most Christians, the regathering of Israel, the=20= return to Palestine, has significant spiritual import, and it is=20 inextricably linked to the acknowledgment of the Messiahship of Jesus=20= Christ. To link this hope with authentic Zionism seems a bit much. In another place, Johnson offers a footnote (page 161) that was just=20= plain puzzling: "In passing, one cannot help noting how interesting it is that=20 Maimonides's Thirteen Principles of Faith, mentioned by Rabbi Leffler in= =20 chapter 3, has a counterpart in Mormonism's Thirteen Articles of Faith."= Quite apart from the fact that the original "Articles of Faith" were=20= fourteen in number, not thirteen, I wondered just what Johnson was=20 getting at, other than the similarity in number. Yes, a minor point, bu= t=20 it did puzzle me. In one place, the question of the authorship of the chapter was a bit=20= curious. Chapter 7, ostensibly written by Rabbi Leffler, makes the=20 following statement: "Unfortunately Christians seldom recognize this problem, as Mr. Johnson = has at times found in presenting his Mormonism to Rabbi Leffler." (p.=20= 132) With both gentlemen spoken of in the third person (and this is the only = place in the book where this occurs), I wondered just who wrote this=20= paragraph. Ending this lengthy review, I must in the end heartily recommend this=20= fine volume to any who want to understand the potential for dialogue=20= between Jews and Mormons. Mormons will enjoy it as it offers a concise,= =20 yet complete and sympathetic understanding of contemporary Judaism. And= =20 Jews will enjoy the energetic debate and the introductory understanding = of Mormonism that this book offers. - --=20 Jeffrey Needle E-mail: jeff.needle@general.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 21:44:26 -0800 From: "Creative Actions" Subject: [AML] Re: References to Native Americans in Mormon Lit. I am on the list. Thanks for the suggestions, Preston. I hope I hear from others. - --Jacqui Garcia - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:18:22 -0700 From: "Gae Lyn Henderson" Subject: RE: [AML] Shaken Faith and Truth (was: Real Life) Jacob Proffitt said: . My > apologies to those > >authors, but I can't handle the continuing messages about my > faith that are > >devoid of an active, loving, comforting God anymore.>>> I just read the story because of what Jacob has said about it. So I thank him for bringing up the topic and directing me to "Faith of Our Fathers." My cousin's son died this past summer in a very similar way. I've talked to his mother as she has described the agonizing experience that this death was for his friends--young people similar to the characters in Rawlins' story. I've also listened to her describe the comfort God has blessed her with. But she also told me that at times the comfort leaves and she is faced with the black reality of his death. I thought Rawlins' story was marvelous. It touched me with the absolute honesty of its voice. Why, when sudden and tragic death occurs, do we as a culture tend to rush in with easy answers: God wanted him to perform a mission, it was his time, etc. This story points out that sometimes life and death, from our perspective, are absolutely random. A friend of mine who recently lost his wife to cancer explained at her funeral that both of them had come to accept that this earthly experience has a chaotic nature. God places us in this system in which we are subject to the laws of nature. Divine intervention may occur--but sometimes it just doesn't happen! I didn't find this story "faithless" at all. It showed a father filled with love, trying to respond authentically to his daughter's pain. It inspires me that he would care enough to try to see it from her perspective, to not try to "fix" her feelings immediately, to not force an understanding upon her that may take time to occur. Why do we think God put us here in the first place? To have to face the difficult challenges, to try and find meaning in suffering. Victor Frankl says in _Man's Search for Meaning_ that the experience of the Nazi death camps was that human beings can find meaning in suffering. This story shows a father and a daughter struggling with that all-important task. The fact that the father loves his daughter enough to relive her experience is tremendously uplifting to me. It shows me that God's love may be very similar to this father's love--that he lets us struggle sometimes so that we can learn. I believe in a loving God who answers prayers. But I have to say that I=92v= e had people tell me their prayers were not answered. In fact, some of my own prayers seem to go unanswered. In the tradition of my church and my belief system, I try to understand that maybe the answer is =93no,=94 maybe I have= to be patient, maybe God=92s will becomes apparent over time, maybe I=92m= asking for something that I shouldn=92t have, maybe I am misunderstanding the= answer or not in tune enough to get it, maybe I lack faith, and all the other ways we explain such apparent lack of response. So what do people do when they have that experience=97the experience of not getting an answer? If all their reading and the lessons in church tell them that prayers are always answered, they may falter in their faith. Perhaps stories that explore the unanswered prayer situation can actually help us deal with that scenario if and when it occurs in our own lives. Trying to listening to God=92s inspiration, trying to feel his will and= figure out what his answers are some of the most common of human experiences. To write about that struggle is to help us all to try and figure it out. Fiction is, by definition, made up=97not true. But ironically, one of my criteria for whether or not fiction is worthwhile is its honesty. I want to trust the story to tell me the author=92s authentic experience of life. If the story tells me about what another human being has experienced then I think it has value. How can I dismiss it and say that it is not my experience and so I don=92t want anything to do with it? Don=92t I have the obligation to at least listen to this human voice that I have encountered and to try and understand it? I may disagree and I may ultimately reject it as invalid. But perhaps in that process I am enriched. I want to read a variety of voices and perceptions about the human experience. I don=92t want to limit myself to what I immediately agree= with. On the other hand, I can be overloaded quickly with =93disturbing=94= material. When I was a student at BYU studying literature I remember that during the semester I read Steinbeck and Hemingway I started to feel depressed=97what I interpreted as their =93faithless=94 attitudes strongly affected me. So nobody is forcing anybody to read something he does=92t want to read. I certainly don=92t want a steady diet of negativity or of agony and= suffering. But I think I grow a little when I choose to listen to such voices and try to figure out how I feel about them. What I term =93good=94 literature= offers me that growth experience and that challenge. Sometimes I think that =93disturbing=94 fiction demands to be discussed. In classroom situations students have the opportunity to say why they detest something and to analyze that reaction a bit. Then they can hear someone else=92s experience and try to understand it. By the time the discussion is over all parties involved are enlightened. This list discussion is good for that reason I think. [Gae Lyn Henderson] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #207 ******************************