From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #224 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, January 4 2001 Volume 01 : Number 224 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 18:58:13 -0800 (PST) From: plus two Subject: [AML] Re: Introductions: William Morris This is a follow-up to my pre-holiday introduction. In sharing these connections to Mormon literature, my hope is that you all (if you're short on time, skip this message since it doesn't relate to the excellent threads that have been active on the list lately) will be spurred to take a moment to contemplate your own weird, bitter and/or sweet, personal connections to Mormon art and artists and that what you recall helps rejuvenate a project, or further a line of thinking related to Mormon literature. 1. As I understand it, my grandfather Forace Green and great-uncle Doyle Green started the first LDS Book-of-the-Month Club. Grandpa also edited the second edition of _Testimonies of Our Leaders_ and the second or third edition of Orson Whitney's _Saturday Evening Thoughts_. I only became consciously aware of my grandpa's 'literary' activities several years after his death. I even managed to obtain a bundle of tracts and pamphlets that he had used on his mission to the eastern states (sometime in the 20's) where he was in charge of public relations etc. This heritage (I love the tract which talks about all the USA firsts in Utah when it came to women liberation e.g. first all female city council, first female customs official etc.), while minor, pushed me/pushes me to grapple with the idea of Mormon literature (my tendency has been to avoid it and concentrate on canonical literary studies). The heritage he wanted to leave me (a pressure to continue a tradition) revolved around Scouting---it's one I couldn't accept. This one I can. 2. Kristen Randle was my Sunday school teacher for the one year that my family lived in Provo down near Utah lake. It was my first encounter with an LDS woman who acted and wrote and exuded a certain Bohemian flair (Bohemian is not the right word, but hey, I was a teenager who had grown up in a small town in southern Utah--can you say 'shelllllltered'). Intrigued, I read one of her early novels (so I guess there was one other piece of Mormon fiction I read as a teenager other than the _The Bishop's Horserace_). I wasn't blown away by it, but I liked it and thought it was well written. More importantly, I first became aware of LDS artists writing Mormon fiction that wasn't about pioneers but rather tried to explore the current Mormon condition. 2b. Steve Perry came and led a youth conference I attended when I was living in Fremont, CA (Bay Area). He asked some of the local youth leaders to identify the young man and woman who would be the best-prepared missionary. This is how I found myself walking up to the pulpit in front of hundreds of my peers to accept a copy of his album _Far Into the Heart_. Mortifying. I did listen to the tape though, and found some of the songs to be very catchy, even moving. I bring up these experiences because they underscored the importance of personal contact in my growing interest in Mormon art. What I like about this is that because of these two artists, I encountered (and was a less cynical consumer) works that I would normally have dismissed and came away from the experiences enriched and with an agenda of my own. The seeds were planted so that, when I got back from my mission claiming that my next mission was to destroy the Mormon popular music scene (too many companions that liked Mormon schlock). It only took the rediscovery of my Steve Perry tape to help me realize that destruction wasn't the most productive option. I began to develop the hope that a growing market for Mormon artists would foster an environment that would open room for works more to my taste. 3. My father (when he was working as a lawyer in southern Utah--Kanab) did a one-time consultation with Maureen Whipple (she didn't trust any of the lawyers in St. George) about her house. This is something I heard about only recently, but it is the type of strange moment that fuels my imagination, and since that landscape continues to haunt my memory and writing, it is a reminder that if I want to try writing southern Utah, I need to grapple with at least some of my predecessors. Does the Mormon audience really need another novel on the constraints of Mormon provincial, desert life? Only if it brings something new to the genre. This is why, although I imagine others might disagree, I think that a Mormon criticism is important. Yes, at a certain point you have to write the stories that you feel compelled to write, but both market considerations and literary history come into play----and a good Mormon criticism will help us (writers, informed readers, critics) understand both streams at each stage of Mormon literature. Finally, I lapse didactic, and assure all you out there that your works, examples, and personal contacts with people (no matter how fleeting) all can have profound effects that you never become aware of, so please persevere. It all helps. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 12:51:06 +0900 From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) Religious Stories Time for another Andrew's poll. This month I'd like to ask everyone: What are your favorite non-Mormon stories about faith and/or religion? What was it about it/them that you liked? Andrew Hall Pittsburgh, PA _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 08:16:48 -0600 From: reid9 Subject: Re: [AML] Editorial: Micro-Politics and Power Structures I solved this problem - I was called to be the Primary Chorister. What a great job!!! :) However, it really strikes me as - odd. unusual, funny, etc... - that so many of us on the list have this same problem. Could it be that creative thinkers - people who look at situations/scriptures/events with a different point of view create the feelings that Scott described. Or could it be that we all talk to much?;) Terri - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 23:40:10 -0600 From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN U of U Press History of Utah Printing Released: University of= Utah Press Press Release From: University of Utah Press To: Mormon News Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2001 23:00:00 -0500 Subject: MN U of U Press History of Utah Printing Released: University of Utah Press Press Release 28Dec00 A6 [From Mormon-News] U of U Press History of Utah Printing Released SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- Utah's first printing press arrived in Salt=20 Lake Valley in 1849, barely two years after the first settlers.=20 Purchased by printer W. W. Phelps at the behest of Mormon leaders,=20 the press was initially the church's private venture but also became=20 a tool to project political interests onto the national stage. The=20 first document produced was a general communiqu=E9 to the church at=20 large. Other early jobs included the second printing of the=20 Constitution of the State of Deseret, part of an early, unsuccessful=20 statehood bid, and the first issues of the Deseret News. Printing in Deseret is a concise narrative history of the advent of=20 printing in the state, and of the earliest printed documents, or=20 incunabula, created during the initial settlement years. It also=20 includes a bibliographic history of the press, chronicling more than=20 fifty printed items, most never before described. Advance praise for Printing in Deseret: "The bibliographic description of early Utah imprints is unsurpassed=20 in its thoroughness of coverage and descriptive detail." -George Miles, curator, Yale Collection of Western Americana "Thoughtful, wide ranging in scope, and painstakingly detailed,=20 Printing in Deseret, makes a notable contribution to the study of=20 printing's evolution in the nineteenth century American West." -Peter J. Blodgett, curator, Western Historical Manuscripts,=20 Huntington Library Richard L. Saunders received the Dialogue Writing Award for History=20 and Biography in 1996, he is currently the curator of Special=20 Collections and Archives at the Paul Meek Library, University of=20 Tennessee at Martin. PRINTING IN DESERET Mormons, Economy, Politics, and Utah's Incunabula, 1849-1851 By Richard L. Saunders Cloth $35.00 215 pp., 6 x 9 See also: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0874806631/mormonnews More about Richard L. Saunders' "Printing in Deseret: Mormons,=20 Economy, Politics, and Utah's Incunabula, 1849-1851" at Amazon.com >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 07:12:30 -0800 From: Marsha Steed Subject: Re: [AML] Editorial: Micro-Politics and Power Structures "Women, do you hate arguing or are you just busy doing other things? In our >ward Sunday School class almost no women say anything." - Not sure who this is quoting.... but... I haven't been in Sunday School since our move, (put us directly into the primary) but when I was there was only one reason I didn't say much... and that was if my husband was in class or not. He prefers the addage that woman are silent in church. Tounge in cheek perhaps here but the truth of it is that he didn't care to have me speak out. His motto is, 'It is better to ask some of the questions than to know all the answers". However that evidently doesn'tn hold true for searching questions. He didn't like those tossed out there either. I did however attend enough on my own evidently to have the SS teach tell me when we moved that 'class will be awful quiet without your imput'. Guess it is the curse of a Seminary teacher, current or past. My daughter is following in my footsteps. She is never afraid to speak out. I found that I fell into a balance. I keep quiet unless I feel the teacher is missing an important side point or another angle or actually teaching something that I find to be misleading. The better the teacher is, the less I say. I never answer 'sunday school' questions, you know the kind, "What did King Benjamine say when he got to the tower?" I only answer 'So What?" questions. So... in answer to the question, it would be my guess that either the teacher isn't asking the right questions, or there are too many men with my husbands attitude, or the teacher is excellent and comments aren't needed to correct them. . . or . . . something else entirely out of my scope of experience. I'm not certain why arguing has to do with speaking out in class though. Perhaps I've never been in a ward where folks feel the need to argue gospel principles. Afterall, I live in California. M Steed - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 08:17:46 -0800 From: Marsha Steed Subject: [AML] Telepathy and Magic (was: Mormon Characters) "Also, I might throw open the question to the members of the list: is telepathy consistent or inconsistent with an LDS world-view? How about magic? (Guess the last may depend on how one defines "magic": some may say that "magic" is by definition of Satanic origins.) What say ye?" - quoted by Ronn Blankenship Well, for me anyway, my understanding of the gospel plan would easily include that sort of communication esp on a higher plane. I can't imagine that in the afterlife we'll all be limited to only voicing things. Just like a principle is differentiated with practices, if we don't use is now to its full ability doesn't in any way negate the fact that it both exists or that it may be used extensively in the future. Same with 'magic'. Being a fantasy writer myself, I used many many modes of 'magic' and throughly enjoyed the "Potter' books. I believe that magic is simply forms of science that we don't know all about just yet. Doesn't make it impossible. Certainly years ago most of what we do everyday and use every day would be considered high 'magic' by our ancestors. Sheeze, sometimes I just sit in awe at some of it. . . It seems that in the world of fantasy, magic is almost exclusively attributed to a 'higher power'. Something that the users of it owe hommage. In our lives don't we constantly use symbols and ideas to give that very same idea birth in the scriptures? ( See radical ideas like this is why some folks probably cringed when I do speak out in SS class ) Don't we limit ourselves terribly when we decide for the Lord what He can and can not use to teach with? In my understanding, it is the lesson that is most important, not the story or the 'type' used to teach it. Just thoughts. M Steed ( and thanks for the welcome back, 2000 was a looooooong year ) - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 09:54:43 -0700 From: Deborah Wager Subject: Re: [AML] Editorial: Micro-Politics and Power Structures Gae Lyn Henderson wrote: > Women, do you hate arguing or are you just busy doing other things? > In our ward Sunday School class almost no women say anything. While this may apply to no one but myself, (formal, self-deprecating apology; if it offends you please pretend I deleted it) I had an interesting experience for a couple of years when my husband was teaching one of those 12-week Sunday school classes. I found that when he wasn't there I'd contribute frequently in Sunday School, but when his class was on hiatus and he was sitting next to me my hand never went up. I don't know if I was making up for his inability to contribute or if when he's there I whisper too many comments to him and let some of the steam out of the pressure cooker, as it were. Since realizing this I try to notice when I would say something if he weren't there and to say it, but it becomes a conscious thing. But, as someone else said ( I deleted it so I don't know who), I often want to say something on topics I feel strongly about but by the time I've formulated a reply that doesn't sound completely inarticulate and crackpot the discussion has moved on. We have a number of feisty and articulate women in our ward, so I find if I mentally align myself with them (in temperament if not content) it's much easier to speak out. Debbie Wager - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 10:20:21 -0700 From: Deborah Wager Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Characters (was: CARD, _Lost Boys_) Ronn Blankenship wrote: > I have been working for a while now on a novel in which the main character > is a telepath. As most of us do from time to time, I let a friend read and > comment on what I had written. My friend objected to one particular scene > on the grounds that the way the telepath used her psionic abilities in that > scene did not seem to be reconcilable with the Mormon viewpoint of the "way > things are" (the Gospel, the Plan of Salvation, free agency, etc.) My guess is that this friend was responding to your having written this, not to any "Mormonness" inherent in the story. It sounds like she's saying, "As a Mormon you know how things really are, so why would you write it this way?", which is a different question from the actions of presumably Mormon characters. And it sounds like the coworker isn't a reader of sf/fantasy at all. The point about the characters not needing to be Mormon for them to be judged as Mormons holds if the reader knows the author is Mormon. I know I read Card's and Wolverton's stories through an ever-present lens of Mormonism because I know that they are LDS. And I judge them (the stories) differently because of that lens. But I do agree that there need to be more Mormon characters in books in general, so that people can have more opportunity to form more accurate opinions. And they need to be named as Mormons so that those who aren't familiar with what a Mormon is (or think they are horse-thieving, woman-stealing scoundrels) will recognize them. Debbie Wager - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 13:24:27 -0500 From: Richard Johnson Subject: [AML] Telepathy and Magic (was: Mormon Characters) At 07:49 PM 1/2/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Another time, I was having one of those "water-cooler conversations" >(though to be excruciatingly accurate there was not a water cooler, >drinking fountain, or fire hydrant in sight) with someone at work, and >somehow the subject of telepathy came up, though he had not read my story >nor had I mentioned it to him. This LDS person stated quite firmly that >telepathy is impossible because the Savior is the only being with the >ability to read the thoughts of wo/men. > >Note that neither of these reactions made me change the story or the >specific part that the first friend objected to (which is really a fairly >crucial part of the story). I thought you might find it useful, or at >least interesting, to see how some LDS viewed telepathy as a plot element >in trying to predict how an LDS audience might view a Mormon magic-user. >Also, I might throw open the question to the members of the list: is >telepathy consistent or inconsistent with an LDS world-view? How about >magic? (Guess the last may depend on how one defines "magic": some may >say that "magic" is by definition of Satanic origins.) What say ye? Linda Sillitoe's novel _Secrets Keep_ (which was reviewed here on the list a few months ago-- about an hour after I finished a review which I had intended, but decided not to submit) is couched in a world of telepathy, crystals, premonition, etc. Almost all of the significant characters are active or semi-active in the church. It was published in 1995 and appeared to be still in print when I purchased my copy in July of 2000. Richard B. Johnson Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director, Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important http://www2.gasou.edu/commarts/puppet/ Georgia Southern University Puppet Theatre - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 14:36:47 -0700 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Characters (was: CARD, _Lost Boys_) I said: > If you include Mormon people and bring up their Mormonness in a > story, that colors your story. People will bring all their > preconceived notions about Mormons (true or not) and apply them to > your characters. On Tue, Jan 02, 2001 at 09:30:25AM -0800, Marsha Steed wrote: > Wouldn't then, more and more writing *with* the religious > inclusion... who turn out to be not particularly aligned with the > popular preconceived notions eventually have some power to change > those? It seems to me that if we take that approach, not include it > because it may colour our singular character in a singular > tale... then we will all be stuck in that very same rut of > prejudice. Someone, no, lots of 'someones' have to begin somewhere > don't they? I didn't say you shouldn't include Mormon characters, just that you should understand that when you do include such characters, that readers apply preconceived notions about those characters. I think Card tried to do with _Lost Boys_ just what you described, to show true Mormon characters as an attempt to deconstruct the reader's preconceived notions of Mormonism. Fiction that tries to function as a cultural missionary usually fails. That doesn't meant that you cannot have culture function as a background to your story. Chaim Potok presents Jewish characters in a background of Jewish culture. But Potok's characters make their decisions and accept their outcomes as a reflection of that culture. Card's characters in _Lost Boys_ don't show a response that reflects the Mormonness of his characters. In my opinion, Card should have left out all the references to Mormonism or changed his character's response to their tragedy. I make the same argument for any fictional element. If you include a snake in your story, you should have a reason for using a snake and not a spider or a lobster. Whatever animal you choose brings a heritage of myth and symbolism. The reader brings experience with that creature to your text -- both personal experience and experiences from other texts. Your text might cause the reader to solidify or change their opinion of that creature. By placing a fictional element in a poorly constructed story, you limit the effectiveness of your overall and secondary messages you wanted to convey with that element. And if that element causes the weakness in your story, then you should cut or revise. - -- Terry L Jeffress AML Webmaster and AML-List Review Archivist - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Jan 2001 16:51:02 -0700 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Characters (was: CARD, _Lost Boys_) On Wed, Jan 03, 2001 at 10:20:21AM -0700, Deborah Wager wrote: [snip] > But I do agree that there need to be more Mormon characters in books in > general, so that people can have more opportunity to form more accurate > opinions. And they need to be named as Mormons so that those who aren't > familiar with what a Mormon is (or think they are horse-thieving, > woman-stealing scoundrels) will recognize them. To have non-Mormons come to a better understanding of Mormons through literature one of the following would have to happen: - A lot of non-Mormons would have to start reading Mormon literature - Mormons would have to write mainstream stories about Mormons and have them published nationally - Bestselling authors (Mormon or Non-Mormon) would have to write multiple novels involving "real" Mormon characters I don't see any of these happening any time soon. I think you seek a worthy goal, but don't think you will see fruition. - -- Terry L Jeffress AML Webmaster and AML-List Review Archivist - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 16:34:52 -0700 From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: Re: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) Religious Stories I like John Updike's two novels _S._ and _In the Beauty of the Lilies_.=20 _S._ is about a woman who leaves her marriage to join an East Indian-based = commune, and her experiences with faith and spirituality are fascinating. = Toto-like, she ends up dragging aside the curtain to expose the Wizard of = Oz for what he really is.=20 _In the Beauty of the Lilies_ is a multi-generational saga begun and ended = with religious experiences. To begin, a pastor loses his faith and quits = to become a mail carrier. In the end, a young man joins a mountainous = commune patterned after Waco. Updike renders these characters and = situations extremely well and vividly. Neither of these is faith promoting, by the way. I can't stand propa--er, = I mean fiction that is written with the intent to affirm faith or = religion. But I would like to see a few more wisps of at least the = _possibility_ of religious/spiritual truth or reality in fiction than = Updike provides. Chris Bigelow - -------- For a sample copy of IRREANTUM, a Mormon literary quarterly, send $4 to = the Association for Mormon Letters, 262 S. Main St., Springville, UT = 84663. >>> "Andrew Hall" 01/02 8:51 PM >>> Time for another Andrew's poll. This month I'd like to ask everyone: What are your favorite non-Mormon stories about faith and/or religion? What was it about it/them that you liked? - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:04:27 -0700 From: Barbara@techvoice.com (Barbara R. Hume) Subject: Re: [AML] Editorial: Micro-Politics and Power Structures >"Women, do you hate arguing or are you just busy doing other things? In our >>ward Sunday School class almost no women say anything." I'm teaching the Gospel Essentials class right now. The bishop and his second counselor both attend. I asked them if they were checking up on me, but they said no, they actually like it. Anyway, we were discussing the fact that only men hold the priesthood, and I said that it was all right with me even though I am a flaming feminist, especially when the priesthood holders have to go to a four-hour meeting on Saturday before regional conference. The second counselor moaned and said that this was the toughest class he'd ever been to. barbara hume - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:23:07 -0700 From: Steve Subject: Re: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) Religious Stories on 1/2/01 8:51 PM, Andrew Hall at andrewrhall@hotmail.com wrote: > Time for another Andrew's poll. > This month I'd like to ask everyone: > What are your favorite non-Mormon stories about > faith and/or religion? > What was it about it/them that you liked? Rudyard Kiplings novel "Kim." Even with all the history involved, the fascinating part for me was Kim's "guru" in whom he never quite believed, but could never quite disbelieve. Even in the end the holy man might well have found exactly what he was seeking--or not. How Kipling wove in the spiritual and mystical without clearly coming down on either side of the fence is was powerful. I don't know if others consider this a spiritual story. It did have that effect on me. Steve - -- skperry@mac.com http://stevenkappperry.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 17:38:48 -0700 From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Poetry On Tue, 02 Jan 2001 09:23:23 -0800, Marsha Steed wrote: >"And what if there were regular people lurking? Maybe they would write = poetry >that regular people understood, instead of just for the ivory tower = academy. >Some of us contend that the academic poets are the ones who killed = poetry." - Bob Hughes > >Well, I write poetry, and I'll have to agree with you. I write it, but = I don't always care to read it. So much of it leaves me cold and frankly= touches no place within. I've had great response with the small bit = that I've shared, since my stuff is less esoteric than >many... but there really doesn't seem to be a market, and unfortunately = money talks. I don't think we know if there is a market for many kinds of poetry. = Modern poetry seems to be largely cut from the same bolt. I know for sure that = as I look in the poetry section of my local Barnes & Noble that I am = supremely uninterested in anything modern offered there. My tastes tend to run towards the old masters--Shakespeare, Donne, Hopkins, Dickinson. That = kind of poetry isn't offered any more. At least, not that I can find. We've apparently moved on and I'm kind of sad about that. Frankly, some of the infrastructure required to develop that level of skill is gone so a = revival is likely not even possible. I mean, how good would Donne have been if poetry had had a lower profile in his day? I don't know who controls the market for poetry. I don't know who is publishing poetry these days, who determines what gets published and what does not, but I long for a new esthetic. Am I representative of a pent = up market demand? I don't know. But I'd like someone to publish it and = see. At least I'd stand a good chance of culling a new book out of it. Jacob Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:49:56 -0700 From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) Religious Stories I loved "The Robe,""The Big Fisherman," and "Two From Galilee." I had seen the movie of "The Robe" many times with my mother, then read the book. I was raised in the Church of God (joined the LDS Church in college) and we would watch the movie each Easter. The story brings warm memories of good times spent with Mother. "The Big Fisherman" was written by Lloyd C. Douglas, the author of "The Robe" so of course I read it, too. I thinkt he third was by Marjorie Holmes. It just looked interesting, and it was--I'd never thought much about Mary and Joseph before I read that book. Andrew Hall wrote: > Time for another Andrew's poll. > This month I'd like to ask everyone: > What are your favorite non-Mormon stories about > faith and/or religion? > What was it about it/them that you liked? > > Andrew Hall > Pittsburgh, PA > > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > > - > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 18:54:23 -0700 From: LuAnnStaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Editorial: Micro-Politics and Power Structures I'm just checking in on this particular thread of conversation, but if I read it right I'm sensing that not many women speak up in sunday School classes. Well, I must be the oddball of the group here then. I talk all the time and our Gospel Doctrine teachers look to me regularly for input. I even substitute taught a few weeks ago for one of the regulars. I'm not alone--our Relief Society president, Bishop's wife, Ward Choir director, Young Women's President, and lots of other women regularly participate in the discussion. It's our men who rarely make comments during the lessons. [LuAnn Staheli] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Jan 2001 20:45:38 -0600 From: reid9 Subject: Re: [AML] Telepathy and Magic I preceed my comment with the fact that Irish and Scottish blood flow through these veins of mine - so I have a disposition towards "things that go bump in the night." :) First my experience with telepathy, intuition, mind reading, etc.. Probably before this - but this is the first one that came to mind. When I was oh, so young, and going to school at Ricks (now referred to as BYU-Rexburg rather than the infamous cafe in Casa Blanca) and my now-husband, then fiance, was going to BYU, I would know when he was reading my letters to him. I would always glance up at the clock and make a note of when I got the funny feeling that he was thinking of me - and yep, that's when he was reading them. Then, when my youngest daughter was 2 and her little brother was a couple of days old - I remember sitting on the couch, changing his diaper and thinking (not talking out loud, just thinking) "I wonder of Jennie could figure out what the Desitin is?" I hadn't used it for Chris yet, but as I was half-way through a diaper change - I realized that he needed it. Moments later, Jennie walked up to me with the Desitin in her little pudgy hands and said, "Here, mommy, is this what you needed?" It is not uncommon in my house for me to be thinking about a song and have one of my children start singing that same song. No prompting on my part. My sister has often called and the first words out of her mouth are, "What's wrong?" She lives in Ohio - I live in Illinois. She usually feels things and acts of them - the spirit perhaps? She called me to tell me I was pregnant before I realized I was. I told her that the next time she had one of those feelings it should be about my getting rich, very rich! Really, I'm not nuts! Really! I agree with Marsha about magic - I think that magic is all around us - we just don't understand it. I use magic all the time. I have a daughter who doubted her abilities in reading. I let her borrow one of my "magic" stones - a really pretty smooth orangy stone - that I told her would help her remember all of the words she studied. She took it to school, kept it in her pocket and remembered all of the words. After a couple of weeks, the stone was left in the pocket of her jeans in the laundry room and she was remembering all by herself. MAGIC! I have also had neat experiences because I write local ghost stories. Every year at Halloween time, our local historical society has an event called, "Spirits of Yesteryear." It is quite tame and has quite an historical theme. However, one not so historical theme is me - telling local ghost stories and having stories shared with me by those who attend. You might be amazed at how many regular folks really believe that they have ghosts who live in their houses with them. Anyway, often we dismiss things because we haven't seen, can't touch, haven't had the experience - how blessed we are that the folks in the Book of Mormon who just had faith that Jesus would be born shared that faith and testimony with us - and with others. How many miracles are out there - right before our eyes and we could experience them if only we opened ourselves to the possibilities? Thanks for your fun question, Ronn! Terri Reid - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 07:34:13 -0700 From: "mcnandon" Subject: RE: [AML] Editorial: Micro-Politics and Power Structures At my age, I am very tired of hearing _pat religious answers_ and _party-line responses._ When I comment in GD and RS, I avoid being contentious, but I always try to find a creative response. When I lived in Texas I was in a ward where the line between the _Liahonas_ and _Iron-Roders_ was clearly defined. We lived in a university ward where many of our members were liberals and feminists; while others were very traditional and not well educated. I think we respected each other and I liked the balance. When I left Texas a sister said, _You will be missed. We are losing the 'voice of reason' in our meetings._ Since moving back to Utah, there is no balance of thought in our meetings. I miss that. I don't consider myself an intellectual, but I still feel intellectually deprived. Nan McCulloch - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Jan 1997 07:34:20 -0700 From: "mcnandon" Subject: RE: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) Religious Stories My favorite non-Mormon novel about religion is _Resurrection_ by Tolstoi. Tolstoi had an absorbing interest in humanity. _Resurrection_ is about love. _You may make good bricks without love,_ he said, _But you cannot treat men without love._ This is a powerfully uplifting book, not unlike _Les Miserables._ I love C.S. Lewis and when I need my faith in Christianity confirmed, I still like to read _The Screwtape Letters._ I am pragmatic and this book appeals to that side of me. If I were to lose a loved one or if I needed to recommend a book of comfort and inspiration to someone in need of consolation, I would turn to _A Grief Observed_ by C.S. Lewis. Lewis wrote this book after four brief, intensely happy years of marriage to his wife Joy. He wrote to defend himself against the loss of belief in God. Nan McCulloch - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 01:04:40 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) Religious Stories Andrew Hall wrote: > What are your favorite non-Mormon stories about > faith and/or religion? > What was it about it/them that you liked? Les Miserables and Ben-Hur. Both are powerful stories of redemption. In both cases, the redeemed character started out decent, was taught to be a scoundrel or thirst for revenge by grossly unjust acts of society, and struggled to overcome that learned behavior. Ben-Hur's redemption came near the end of the story, which was mainly about his struggle to find it. Jean Valjean's redemption came early on, and the story was more about his struggle to remain true to his redemption throughout his life (enduring to the end). - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:55:36 -0700 From: "Brent J. Rowley" Subject: Re: [AML] Orson Scott CARD, _Lost Boys_ (Review) I was intrigued by the various posts concerning Orson Scott Card's _Lost Boys_ just prior to the Holiday break. And since it's still bouncing around a bit now, I just couldn't resist throwing in my two cents worth. During the course of my career as a Network Engineer, I found myself living in Greensboro, North Carolina for a period of about 14 months. (Aug. '97 - Oct. '98) And, as luck would have it, and to my great surprise and delight, I found myself attending church in the same ward as the Scott Card family. I had a rather unique opportunity to rub shoulders and observe him "up close and personal," and conversed with him on several occasions about books, publishing, and other things. Due to that closeness, my interest in his books was piqued. I'd seen his books around, of course, and my son was a die-hard fan. But I'd never read any. So, I proceeded to check out everything the public library had available with his name on it. I loved _Ender's Game_, and it's still my favorite. I thought _Treason_ was a bit weird, but very entertaining. I thoroughly enjoyed _Enchantment_. His _Alvin Maker_ series is superb, and I really enjoyed picking out the subtle similarities to LDS history. I'm still anxious to continue the series, and hope he'll give us another installment soon. And Scott gave me an autographed, hardcover copy of _Ender's Shadow_ as a going away present when I left. It's also very, very good. And, somewhere along the line, I read _Lost Boys_. I was initially surprised that he would publish, on the national market, a book so intimately LDS. It was a little weird and awkward at first. But I thought it was great that he would give the world such a taste of Mormondom. But a funny thing happened, while reading this book. As I got more and more into the story, I gradually found myself reading from three very distinct and different angles or Points of View, which resulted in three equally distinct reactions. I'd never had that happen before. First off, right from page one, I was reading from the POV of a writer. Having written and published a couple of books already, I just couldn't help analyzing everything from that viewpoint. And, of course, I was richly rewarded. I was just in awe at Scott's total command of the English language and the expert way in which he crafted sentences, paragraphs, and scenes. He is, without a doubt, a master at his craft. Like I said, I was totally awestruck. Someone else on the list mentioned earlier how he felt like every chapter in _Lost Boys_ could be used as text material for writing classes. I wholeheartedly agree. Second, I found myself, as others have mentioned, reading _LB_ from the point of view of a church member, knowing full well that Scott was an active member himself. And from that POV, I was very disappointed and, in fact, irritated at times. It bothered me a lot that he would resort to such bad language on so many occasions, and that he would take such an irreverent approach to the inner life on an LDS family. I was not impressed with the image it created -- especially in view of it going out to such a broad, national audience. I wasn't very comfortable having the protagonist family's dirty laundry aired that way. Sure, it probably represents a good many LDS families, and I'm sure there are many, many others with far worse secrets to keep. But I just didn't like having the whole world seeing that particular side of things. And finally, as I got deeper and deeper into the story, I realized that I'd heard the whole story before ... from Scott's own lips ... from the pulpit of the stake center, in the form of a 40 minute talk in sacrament meeting. (It was the second or third week that I attended the Summit Ward, and Scott was the feature speaker.) As it turned out, _Lost Boys_ was Scott's own life story. It was incredible. Right down to the tiniest, itty-bitty detail, it was exactly the story I'd heard in church. The talk was excellent, of course. He told the ward all about the trials he'd been through, his employment problems in Indiana, his extended family in Orem, and the birth of his handicapped son, etc., etc., which was the whole reason for his move to Greensboro (where they had such excellent care facilities available.) On and on, point for point, everything was the same -- with a couple of obvious exceptions, of course. Skip (the protagonist) is a software programmer, not a writer, and the underlying theme of the whole book, that of Skip's son and his "invisible" friends, is pure fiction. And then there's the much-talked-about climax to the story. Obviously THAT never happened in Scott's family life. But the rest is just a very cleverly disguised autobiography. Even Zap, Skip's handicapped newborn, is an exact duplication of Scott's own Charlie (who passed away recently, I heard.) And I was not in the least bit surprised when, in High Priest Quorum toward the end of my stay, I heard Scott tell a story of a child molester who had lived in his neighborhood somewhere along his life. Again, the boy genius super-programmer, a page right out of _Lost Boys_. Or visa versa. Anyway, reading the book from the viewpoint of a close acquaintance threw a "WHOLE 'Nuther" light on things. It answered ALL the questions about why he wrote it the way he did -- why he used mormon characters instead of baptist or methodist or whatever -- why there are apparently useless elements included here and there. It's just the way it happened ... that's all. Anyway, I don't know if this helps or hurts the book overall. It still has to stand on it's own in front of it's national audience. But maybe it will help some of you understand where in the heck he came from when he wrote _Lost Boys_. -BJ Rowley - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #224 ******************************