From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #299 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, April 12 2001 Volume 01 : Number 299 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:57:43 -0500 From: Craig Huls Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Book Marketing William Morris asks come questions I would like to hear contribution on as well. I have been in marketing all my life. But find myself now at mid-life ;-) determined to have a new career in this market place. What I have found as I move this direction is that it is more important to have the marketing and promotional skills almost than to have the writing skills. I rush to say that most good marketing folks probably have an acceptable level of writing skill although grammar and punctuation may not be a strong suit, as I have painfully discovered. My first effort lost 5+ pages in page count when the commas were taken out by someone who knew better than I how to use them! I have considered having it ( comma key) removed from my keyboard! Hope this list gives William and I the benefit of your experience! I am anxiously lurking! - -- Craig Huls Huls & Associates email:dcraigh@onramp.net webpage:http://rampages.onramp.net/~dcraigh - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:00:44 -0600 From: Margaret Young Subject: Re: [AML] BECK, _Expecting Adam_ (Review) Now wait a minute. The story of the woman asking her neighbor to care for her pet when she was taken up in the Second Coming is something I heard in Relief Society about 25 years ago. And the person asking this favor was a Born-Again Christian, asking a Mormon to care for her ducks. If I'm remembering correctly, the story was IN the lesson manuel. Is Martha presenting that as her own memory of someone in her neighborhood? If so, I think we have a case of False Memory Syndrome--which might even be manifest in other aspects of her writing or even her life. [Margaret Young] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:16:21 GMT From: cgileadi@emerytelcom.net Subject: Re: [AML] God's Army (was: On Stage...) Thom wrote: The problem I > had with the healing scene (my eyes didn't roll, but I groaned when I > saw it) is that it seemed to come out of the clear blue. It didn't seem > to "fit" artistically. OTOH, that's pretty much the nature of healings and such. Life goes on and on, and once in awhile we experience something from the spiritual realm that may be unexpected and seemingly out of context. Just about every healing I've been associated with has had that aspect to it, and other spiritual experiences seem similar. Cathy (Gileadi) Wilson - --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 10:26:14 -0600 From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] BECK, _Expecting Adam_ (Review) > So is writing not a "Marital" Art or is it not a "Martial" Art...? I tend to > confuse the two myself as I courted my wife in a U of U Shotokan Karate Club. > > Tony Markham Ha! Oops. That's why I shouldn't post anything after 10:00 p.m. Sharlee glennsj@inet-1.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:40:42 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] God's Army (was: On Stage...) At 12:13 PM 4/10/01 -0600, you wrote: >A more realistic >portrayal, imo, would have been for the healing to NOT happen, and the >missionaries somehow manage to continue on despite that blow to their >faith. Would not! Why is it more realistic to avoid portraying what actually happens on a regular basis? Your way would say how admirable it is for people to hang in there despite the fact that they are deluded fools. It would have been a more fashionable portrayal, a more accepted portrayal to the world, but NOT more real. barbara hume - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:21:53 -0700 (PDT) From: William Morris Subject: Re: [AML] Irreantum Content - --- Scott and Marny Parkin wrote: > So what did everyone think of the rest of > Irreantum--the stories, the > essays, the editorial? Any comments? > > Marny Parkin > Since I'm in a gregarious mood today, I'll snap at the bait. While I enjoyed the interviews and short stories (which I consider the meat of any issue---I don't think I could do without any of the sections, but these two are the most essential for my reading pleasure), my favorite part of this issue was the essay by Lee Allred on depicting evil in fiction. I had become sick of reading writers writing about writing but this essay turned me back on to the genre. I felt that Allred presented an honest, serious writing dilemma that strikes at the heart of his Mormon-ness and his status as a writer of speculative fiction. I also enjoyed the narrative flow of the essay--it was a compelling story. And finally I appreciated that he tied it all into the larger issues of Mormon literature. The other thing I enjoyed was the diversity of the short fiction. All the works were quite different from each other. Unless I have a particular title in mind, I generally stay away from the scifi sections of bookstores because all the covers look the same to me and I don't have the patience to browse through titles and maybe chance coming across something I might want to read. The range of these stories made for a great reading experience. It was fun to enter each of these worlds with the author and explore. I paid particular attention to how the sentence structure and word choice of each story fit the overall conceit of the story. If I could have asked for one more thing for this issue: I would have liked to see an essay included that was a critical treatment of a work of science fiction of import (either by a Mormon author or not). But that's simply because of my own interest in a Mormon criticism. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 23:49:25 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] BECK, _Expecting Adam_ (Review) Brown wrote: > > Andrew, thank you for a very informative and interesting review of Martha > Beck. Though we had heard things about her, this seemed to be a good > objective view from your reading of her work. Your viewpoint tempts me to > read the book! Haven't read the book, but I've read all your comments about it. Sure sounds like Beck writes well. But so what? She also apparently writes viciously, dishonestly, with no eye toward telling the truth but merely justifying herself to the world. She also sounds like the most new-agey non-new-agey person around. I've had personal experience working with Down Syndrome kids, so I need no insights into that department. Sounds to me like my biggest reaction to the book would be irritation and anger. I'm not tempted to read the book. I think my time would be better served reading something more honest. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 23:58:27 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] God's Army (was: On Stage...) Thom Duncan wrote: > But to put them in gratuitously is aesthetically wrong. The problem I > had with the healing scene (my eyes didn't roll, but I groaned when I > saw it) is that it seemed to come out of the clear blue. It didn't seem > to "fit" artistically. > > Up until that point in God's Army, we had been seeing a realistic > portrayal of day-to-day missionary work. Not to say that healings > occur. But at that point, the movie changed genres for me. It stopped > being realistic and became, instead, didactic. Thom, I hope you've seen "Leap of Faith" with Steve Martin, because I'd like to hear how you compare the healing scene in that film with the one in "God's Army." > A more realistic > portrayal, imo, would have been for the healing to NOT happen, and the > missionaries somehow manage to continue on despite that blow to their > faith. More realistic only if you don't believe in the power of the priesthood to heal. If you do, then a healing is as realistic as a non-healing. Didactic? I don't see how the scene is didactic. It merely showed what can happen when Mormon priesthood holders bless someone. Elder Dalton was also blessed--but he died. It's not like there wasn't balance in the healing/nonhealing department. > It reminded me of the ending to The Abyss. I *thought* I had been > seeing a suspenseful science fiction piece about rescuing a downed > bathyscaph. When that was taken care of, out of nowhere comes this > awkward Close Encounters of the Third Kind ending. The first scene in "Abyss" was a close encounter between an alien vehicle and a nuclear sub. They didn't bait and switch you. The downed submersible was a subplot. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:13:12 -0600 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Book Marketing William, these are such good questions. And I'm sure there are many who would like to know the answers. May I just say that my experience with Covenant Books proves that the last ten years there has been a big market for romances about Mormons. Shirley Sealy started it, and Anita Stansfield Rachel Nunes, and others continue it. And there are historical "romances" that enter the big market. Mormon historical novels do all right. Of course Mormons are now reading Dean Hughes and Gerald Lund. The Lund books that tell the LDS story have been exceptionally popular. I think you know all of this. Recently Covenant was successful marketing Clair Poulson as the "Mormon Grisham." They sold 6,500 "I'll Find You" in one month, but spent a lot of money doing it. Someone said $20,000 on radio, etc. I'd like to know how much. If you spend a lot you have to sell a lot. That is the riskiest "publicity campaign" I know of at the moment. It takes longer to move slowly, and "slow" may never get it off the ground. Of course you know about Richard Evans' Christmas Box. You are right. If someone can invest in marketing, their chances are greater for success. My publisher says he could sell anything if he had enough money to market it. But you take a bigger risk, and he is conservative. Your questions are so good, and I would agree with you that the time has come to risk an investment in marketing books. However, risking means losing, too. And if you're doing "all right" and can't afford to lose, (and Mormons are conservative anyway) it might not happen. Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:19:48 -0600 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] BECK, _Expecting Adam_ (Review) Darlene, thanks for writing this review. It's great. I agree so much with your perceptions about any of this "arms length" look at the "kooky Mormons." It's what I hope SO MUCH that we in AML can encourage people to overcome. Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:36:44 -0500 From: Larry Jackson Subject: [AML] MN Deseret News Files Lawsuit Against Salt Lake Tribune Over Morning Distribution: New York Times (AP) From: Kent Larsen To: Mormon News Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:30:00 -0400 Subject: MN Deseret News Files Lawsuit Against Salt Lake Tribune Over Morning Distribution: New York Times (AP) 10Apr01 B4 [From Mormon-News] Deseret News Files Lawsuit Against Salt Lake Tribune Over Morning Distribution SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- The Deseret News escalated Salt Lake City's newspaper battle on Monday, filing a lawsuit in Utah's 2nd District Court and claiming that the Tribune used its control over the Newspaper Agency Corporation to "stifle competition" between the papers by delaying the News' move to morning publication. The move opens another venue in the ongoing battle between the newspapers, where the interpretation of the newspaper's joint operating agreement and the documents surrounding the 1997 sale of the Tribune are likely to be examined. The News' lawsuit claims that the Salt Lake Tribune Publishing Company, the management concern that runs the Tribune, used its control of the Newspaper Agency Corporation (NAC), the company that runs the joint operations of both newspapers, to delay the News' plans to move to morning publication. The Newspaper Agency Corporation told the Deseret News when asked to make the switch to morning publication in 1997 that the cost to make the switch would be $25 million and that the Deseret News would have to pay an additional $10 million to cover lost advertising revenue, according to the lawsuit. The News is expected to make the move this fall. The lawsuit also claims that the Tribune used the NAC to "engage in discriminatory practices designed to favor the Tribune and damage the Deseret News." Those practices include, according to the lawsuit, using NAC personnel to benefit the Tribune without reimbursing the NAC, collecting inflated or unfair rent from the NAC, collecting "unreasonable and unwarranted" monetary assessments against the Deseret News and using the NAC's billing and revenue allocation practices to "unjustly enrich" the Tribune and "injure" the Deseret News. Wall says that the Deseret News' board unanimously approved filing the lawsuit. However, the lawsuit does not include any claim for monetary damages. "We're only seeking declaratory and injunctive relief," said Deseret News publisher Jim Wall. He also says that the News filed the lawsuit in Utah's Davis County in an attempt to get a jury that wasn't biased toward either newspaper. Circulation of the two newspapers in Davis county is about equal, and limited to only 30 percent of the county. But, while Salt Lake Tribune publisher Dominic Welch admitted that this would reduce any bias, he noted that the dominance of the LDS Church in the county may favor the Deseret News. The Tribune has a larger circulation in Salt Lake county, while the Deseret News has a larger circulation in Utah county. Welch expressed surprise at the lawsuit Monday, "I thought we could maybe talk about resolving this issue. I'm just appalled." He contends that the NAC simply followed the newspapers' joint operating agreement, which prescribes that the News pay the costs associated with moving to morning distribution. Welch adds that the 1997 figures were only estimates. He does admit trying to protect the Tribune from the costs of such a move. The Tribune sees the move as a strategic play by the News to block the Salt Lake Tribune Publishing Company from re-purchasing the Tribune in the summer of 2002. The publishing company sold the Tribune to Telecommunications, Inc., in 1997, about the same time that the Deseret News wanted to move to morning publication, as part of a tax-favored move to rid the Tribune of cable systems it owned. Part of the agreement included an arrangement that named the Salt Lake Tribune Publishing Company manager of the newspaper and gave the company an option to re-purchase the Tribune. But Telecommunications later merged into AT&T, which sold the newspaper to Denver-based MediaNews Group earlier this year. The Salt Lake Tribune Publishing Company has challenged the sale and MediaNews Group's attempts to make changes at the newspaper, claiming that the management agreement gives it the right to run the paper as it sees fit. It has also fought the Deseret News' contention that it has veto power over the sale of the Tribune under the newspapers' joint operating agreement. Last month a ruling by federal Judge Tena Campbell seemed to indicate that the Salt Lake Tribune Publishing Company had the right to manage both the newspaper and the NAC. But since that ruling was in federal court, Welch says "This action by the Deseret News appears to us to be an attempt by the News to circumvent Judge Campbell's ruling." Welch also says that the Deseret News' actions seem to violate an agreement reached in February under which Wall said the Deseret News would "not take any action" to prevent MediaNews from following Campbell's orders if it weren't named in the lawsuit. But Wall claims that two things have changed since then. He says that the Tribune served notice that it plans to amend its lawsuit adding issues that involve the News, and he claims that Welch told NAC employees he would terminate the joint operating agreement once his company manages to re-acquire the Tribune. Asked if he said that, Welch replied, "No, but it's a helluva good idea." But he hastened to add, "There are no provisions that I see in the contract (JOA) that would allow us to terminate." Sources: Suit Adds to Feud of Utah Newspapers New York Times (AP) 10Apr01 B4 http://www.nytimes.com/2001/04/10/business/10DESE.html By Hannah Wolfson: Associated Press D-News Files Suit AgainstTribune Salt Lake Tribune 10Apr01 B4 http://www.sltrib.com/04102001/utah/87196.htm By Kristen Moulton: Salt Lake Tribune Deseret News sues Salt LakeTribune managers Deseret News 9Apr01 B4 http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,270011388,00.html By Maria Titze: Deseret News staff writer Tribune Wins Round in Ownership Lawsuit http://www.mormonstoday.com/010302/B4TribuneLawsuit01.shtml Tribune Co. Delt Setbacks in Sale Lawsuit http://www.mormonstoday.com/010209/B4TribLawsuit01.shtml MediaNews Opposes Adding Deseret News to Tribune Lawsuit http://www.mormonstoday.com/010126/B4TribuneSale01.shtml After FTC Approves, Salt Lake Tribune Sale Completed http://www.mormonstoday.com/010105/B4TribuneSale01.shtml >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ Send join and remove commands to: majordomo@MormonsToday.com Put appropriate commands in body of the message: To join: subscribe mormon-news To leave: unsubscribe mormon-news To join digest: subscribe mormon-news-digest - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:52:00 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] BECK, _Expecting Adam_ (Review) "D. Michael Martindale" wrote: > > Brown wrote: > > > > Andrew, thank you for a very informative and interesting review of Martha > > Beck. Though we had heard things about her, this seemed to be a good > > objective view from your reading of her work. Your viewpoint tempts me to > > read the book! > > Haven't read the book, but I've read all your comments about it. Sure > sounds like Beck writes well. But so what? She also apparently writes > viciously, dishonestly, with no eye toward telling the truth but merely > justifying herself to the world. How do you know she's dishonest unless your read it. It's been my experience that active Mormons have a tough time excepting criticism of their religion. They tend to immediately discount it, or to assign an evil intention to the person doing the critiquing. > She also sounds like the most new-agey > non-new-agey person around. I've had personal experience working with > Down Syndrome kids, so I need no insights into that department. Sounds > to me like my biggest reaction to the book would be irritation and > anger. I'm not tempted to read the book. I think my time would be better > served reading something more honest. How honest is it to NOT read a book based on how you THINK you'll react? - -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals - -------------------------- Shameless Plug - ------------------------------- Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:54:03 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] God's Army (was: On Stage...) "D. Michael Martindale" wrote: > Thom, I hope you've seen "Leap of Faith" with Steve Martin, because I'd > like to hear how you compare the healing scene in that film with the one > in "God's Army." Haven't seen that yet, but I remember the Billy Bob Thornton's conversion scene in "The Apostle." Wonderful. Entirely within the context. Very moving. Thom Duncan - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:30:07 -0600 From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] BECK, _Expecting Adam_ (Review) Thom Duncan wrote: >How honest is it to NOT read a book based on how you THINK you'll react? It's exactly as honest as any other reason for reading a book. If I read a book, I do so because I THINK I'll enjoy it. If I don't read a book, it's because I THINK I WON'T enjoy it. There's no moral conundrum here. There are too many books to read, so I look to other sources for recommendations before putting down my money and spending hours of my life. A great many things are published that I would consider to be a waste of my time, so I seek the opinions of people I trust. I know, for example, that a variety of voices on this list that don't often agree on other issues have come together to say that this is a well-wrought book. I've heard most say that the book is worth reading, but that they feel it trivializes Mormon thought and belief, so be prepared. I know that the AML gave it an award in the essay last year, and that the citation for that award says quite clearly that Beck's faith is different than that of mainstream Mormons. This gives me some information that can help me make a choice. And if my choice is different than yours, that doesn't make me less honest than you are. Don't try to turn this into an issue of personal honesty. It isn't fair or appropriate. Scott Parkin - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #299 ******************************