From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #320 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, May 11 2001 Volume 01 : Number 320 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:15:29 -0600 From: Jennifer Vaughn Subject: RE: [AML] Martha Beck on Oprah I saw her. It was on an episode about turning trials into positives. Martha Beck was on the ending segment of every Oprah show called "Remembering Your Spirit," and Martha talked about how her Down's son helped her to relearn everything her academic background taught her about the value of life. Oprah mentioned her book briefly when the segment ended. No mention of anything LDS. - --Jennifer Breinholt - -----Original Message----- From: Tony Markham To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com Sent: 5/8/01 10:48 AM Subject: [AML] Martha Beck on Oprah Anybody happen to catch Martha Beck on Oprah yesterday? (Monday, May 7) I didn't, but my wife told me she was featured in a pre-filmed segment, called something like "Remembering Your Spirituality." The irony of the title does not escape me. Tony Markham - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:18:20 -0600 From: Jennifer Vaughn Subject: [AML] Unlearning How to Write (was: At BYU-Hawaii, Card Tells Students How to Write) ["Card] also offered advice about the "right" way to write, saying, "Pay no attention to what you have been told what good writing is." Finally, Card noted that many writers have to spend time trying to unlearn incorrect writing principles that they were taught in school.["] For you writers out there: what specifically have you had to unlearn? - --Jennifer Breinholt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:45:56 -0600 From: Jennifer Vaughn Subject: [AML] Utah Book Clubs Anybody know of any book clubs (the kind where you discuss them, not buy 13 of them for a penny and get a free tote bag with no obligation to buy again) in the Wasatch-front area (sorry to be so Utah-centric) which preferably meet during the day and/or focus on LDS lit? I am a new Stay-At-Home-Mom after years of being a professional and although I love my son dearly, my mind is turning to mush (I've contacted SAHM groups but they scrapbook and quilt and paint perfectly good pieces of wood to look like Precious Moments kids) and there's only so much Oprah I can take (please, somebody shoot that Dr. Phil). Whew. Thanks for letting me rant. Anyway, I am serious about the book club inquiry. - --Jennifer Breinholt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:58:33 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Divinity on Stage maryjanejones@att.net wrote: > > > I thought that the list might be interested in what > non-LDS reviewers are saying currently about Brigham > City, specifically about the religious ordinances in the > film: Thank you, Mary Jane, for the quotes. Such great press should set aside once and for all the misconception some may have that there showing "divinity" on stage is intrinsically harming the church. As I've said before on this list, sometimes we are own worst enemies when it comes to being understood by the world. On the one hand, we wonder why the world sees us as weird, and on the other hand, we want to hide those aspects of our religion that have universal appeal from the world. Showing a sacrament meeting on film sends one clear message to the world--that we aren't all that different from them, despite what they may have read in the history books. They're likely to think: "I still don't get all that temple stuff the Mormons do, but their Sunday services look a lot like mine." Showing missionaries relaxing may not make a convert on the spot to a viewer of _God's Army_, but the next time that person sees the missionaries riding down the street, that person is less inclined to think of those young men as brain-washed automatons. Are we therefore in danger of losing our uniqueness, of becoming too much like the world, if we continue to paint such "normal" portraits of ourselves? Perhaps that's a question that can be considered in another thread. [MOD: Or in this one...] - -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals - -------------------------- Shameless Plug - ------------------------------- Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:33:58 -0700 From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] Jeff Needle What a guy! You tempt me -- I may just do that if I have no other place to put them. At 12:00 PM 5/9/01 -0600, you wrote: >Glad to hear from you, Jeff. Once you get them boxed up, just ship >them to me. I'll even pick up the freight, nice guy that I am. > >Roy > > >>> Jeff Needle 05/09/01 10:23AM >>> >Hello, Roy. In fact, I know him quite well. A real pain in the >neck, but >we love him anyway . > >When my roommate passed away Saturday before last, I knew I had to >move >fairly quickly, so I've been working round the clock getting things >together. I'll be staying in the same apartment complex, just moving >to a >smaller apartment. It's the best thing. > >I'm boxing up my Mormon books right now. It looks like I'll have >about 75 >boxes of books, many of them duplicates and triplicates that I've >been >purchasing at DI. I'll have to find a local who is willing to spend >a day >with me sorting through them, with payment given in books. Anyone in >San >Diego interested? > >I appreciate the nice note. Thanks. > >At 05:13 PM 5/8/01 -0600, you wrote: > >Has anyone heard from Jeff. How is he doing? > > > >Roy Schmidt > > > > > > > > > >- > >AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > >http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm > > > > > > > >- >AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature >http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm > > > > >- >AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature >http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:17:07 -0700 From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] YOUNG and GRAY, _One More River to Cross_ (Review) At 01:35 AM 5/10/01 -0600, you wrote: >I'm afraid you've all lost me on this. As I read the book, not one time >did the notes at the end of the chapter jump up and leap into my eyes, >forcing me to read them. If you prefer notes at the end of the book, why >not just skip the notes as you read, then go back and read them after >you've finished the book? > You echo my thoughts. I wasn't bothered by the notes at all. [Jeff Needle] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 15:48:07 -0600 From: Eileen Stringer Subject: Re: [AML] Utah Book Clubs >From: Jennifer Breinholt >Anybody know of any book clubs (the kind where you discuss them, not buy >13 of them for a penny and get a free tote bag with no obligation to buy again) >in the Wasatch-front area (sorry to be so Utah-centric) which preferably I know that The King's English in Salt Lake offers at least two book discussion groups, I am not certain what their schedules are however. The Salt Lake Tribune offers a book group, the Salt Lake Public Library does as well. I believe from time to time that Barnes & Noble does too, each of the different stores have their own book read and discussion. Our Relief Society does one as well, which surprisingly and rewardingly has been very good. We run it under the auspices of the Literacy Project. Two or three ladies in my neighborhood belong to a couple of different book groups outside the ones I listed above, so I know there are groups or clubs out there. I have to limit my participation to just one book club outside the ones I have joined on-line reading and discussing the works of various Victorian authors. We research I could offer a few more ideas, but that is what I have off the top of my head right now, hope it gives you some direction. Eileen Stringer eileens99@bigplanet.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:34:03 -0600 From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] YOUNG and GRAY, _One More River to Cross_ (Review) On Thu, 10 May 2001 01:35:39 -0600, D. Michael Martindale wrote: >Ivan Angus Wolfe wrote: > >> It would have been easier to consider it as historical fiction if = perhaps the >> notes for each chapter had bee put in an appendix at the end of the = book, so >> that the rest of it could have flowed like a more typical formatted = historicla >> ficiton book - I can't say I read a lot of historical fiction, but = most of what >> I have read does put the notes in the back of the book, rather then = interrupting >> the narrative by putting them in between each chapter. > >I'm afraid you've all lost me on this. As I read the book, not one time >did the notes at the end of the chapter jump up and leap into my eyes, >forcing me to read them. If you prefer notes at the end of the book, why >not just skip the notes as you read, then go back and read them after >you've finished the book? Apparently we're talking about different preferences. I also found the notes at the end of each chapter a distraction. If you prefer reading = the notes as they come up, why not thumb to the end of the book and read the relevant section after each chapter? Oh, wait: >Personally, I hate notes at the end of the book. Often, notes in the >back of the book are notes that go unread. What a pain in the >you-know-where to have to continually thumb into the back of the book to >read them! But if I wait until I've finished the book, I don't remember >what half of them refer to in the story anymore. Since the authors chose (thankfully) to include the notes at all, = choosing either format is going to disappoint some readers. I don't think either = way is intrinsically better, but I do have my preferences. Then Margaret wrote, in her reply: >I do want to comment on whether or not the >series waffles indecisively between history or fiction. (Actually, Sam = Brunson was >not quite that accusing.) I think we're maybe inventing a new genre = here. (Or is >that unthinkably presumptuous?) We stick much closer to history than = Lund does, for >example, because the Steele family is a fabrication, while our = characters really lived >and we've researched their lives everywhere we could. I actually took = Andrew Hall's >comment that _One More River_ wasn't exactly a novel, more "a really = interesting >history book" as a compliment. So I am going to propose a new name for = what we're >doing. Darius and I are writing "liberated history." (That means = history liberated >by fictional license to make it INTERESTING.) If I'm reading non-fiction, I'd rather have the chapter notes at the end = of the chapter for easier access. If I'm reading an historical novel, I = want the notes at the end so I can read the novel and then see what the = history was. _One More River to Cross_ is definitely a hybrid of some kind. I think it would have been far more satisfying if I'd been thinking of it = as history, rather than as a novel. In that respect, having the notes at = the end of each chapter kept me constantly aware that *this stuff really happened,* and I liked that. Liberated history. Huh. Melissa Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:31:10 -0600 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] Divinity on Stage On Thu, 10 May 2001 12:56:14 -0600 Scott and Marny Parkin writes: Brother Scott siad many things in this post (and others recently) that ring so true to me, ending with this: > We need to tell all our stories--what we wish for, what we fear, and > what we really believe. Different kinds of stories will reach into > the lives of different people at different times. Stories that show > struggles are just one more attempt by the author to depict real > people. And try as we might to be otherwise, most Mormons are real > people. I would just like to comment that Scott almost always says exactly what I'm thinking but in a very cogent and dignified manner that I don't think I'm often capable of. He seems to be chronicling my writer's journey. Thanks Scott. So glad you're here. J. Scott Bronson Member of Playwrights Circle "An Organization of Professionals" www.playwrightscircle.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:49:50 -0600 From: "Gae Lyn Henderson" Subject: RE: [AML] Divinity on Stage Scott Parkin said: > It underscores a problem I think we have in Mormon culture--no matter > how many good and honest (and sometimes silly, sometimes serious) > people we show in our fiction, if we *ever* show a broken faith or a > compelling doubt, that element overwhelms the rest of the story for > many Mormon viewers. > > We're afraid to ever be portrayed as less than perfect, or less than > honest at all times, or less than the best possible representatives > of Christ that we can be. The irony is that many people go through doubts and that to not portray those doubts is to be less than honest. As Harlow reminded us in his post summarizing Chieko Okazaki's AML meeting speech, "Doubt is not the opposite of faith. Unbelief is the opposite of faith. My questions are an important part of my faith." Great post Scott. Gae Lyn Henderson > - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 19:33:19 EDT From: RichardDutcher@aol.com Subject: [AML] Mormons as Flawed (was: Divinity on Stage) Here's a thought to throw into the mix (my first contribution to this forum!): I feel that if we, as LDS artists, only represent ourselves as strong, faithful and sinless, we deny the Savior. If we refuse to acknowledge our flawed humanity we present ourselves as a people with no need for a Redeemer. Maybe the Evangelicals are right: maybe we really aren't Christians. Just a thought, Richard Dutcher [MOD: Good to have you here. If you've been lurking for a while, you'll know that both _Brigham City_ and _God's Army_ have been providing plenty of food for discussion on this list!] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:15:06 -0600 From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] Diversity in Writing (was: Divinity on Stage) Sorry for this YALP (Yet Another Long Post). Everything I've had to say on this thread has turned into another interminable chapter in Scott's Compendium of Longwinded Diatribes (SCOLDs). But I refuse to censor myself (I'll make Jonathan do it), so here goes... [MOD: Sorry, I decline. All I did on this post was change the thread title.] Barbara Hume wrote: >And you've made me think again that maybe I really should try >writing some fiction set in the LDS milieu. Doing so hasn't >appealed to me enough to make me try it . . . now I wonder why, when >I love the faith so much. Maybe I'm afraid I'll muck it up, or >maybe I think it might reveal my own shortcomings as a Latter-day >Saint. Now I'm starting to think, so what? Could that possibly >surprise anybody? I think this has been the biggest limitation in Mormon storytelling--that we self-censor at such an early stage in our own creative process. I think most of us believe in telling our own stories, but I think two things tend to stop us--fear of violating orthodoxy and fear of exposing our private beliefs and finding that others think them to be trivial. The fact that we let these things intimidate us is an unfortunate side effect of our very own culture. Mormons and Orthodoxy ===================== I commented a little on this in my editorial in the current _Irreantum_. I think Mormons tend to seek orthodoxy. We want to do it right every time. We believe that there is a best or most correct way to do pretty much everything, and look to our leadership to give us cues as to what that way is. Unfortunately, in the arts it's nearly impossible to declare that one way of depicting a thing is *the* right one, or *the* most correct one. To some degree it's like trying to critique a testimony: "Well, the basic sentiment was honest enough, but frankly I thought the tears were forced and the pacing was a bit sluggish. This person really should hold off on sharing their testimony until they've refined their technique and improved their vocabulary. It was a bit squishy and sentimental, and I just don't care for that in a testimony." While church authorities have certainly offered guidelines about what's generally preferred in a testimony meeting (no travelogues, please...) I think we would be shocked if they suddenly came down with guidance about minimum levels of loquacity, approved word choices, or strictures on the number and size of tears appropriate to the genre. Yet we seem to want exactly that kind of guidance about literature and art. When Orson Scott Card bases a series of science fiction novels on certain broad plot elements from the Book of Mormon, we all turn toward Salt Lake City with inheld breaths to see if the authorities will either celebrate or condemn the works. When they reply with deafening silence, we're left unsure just how we should accept the novels and are forced to make our own choices (interesting concept, that...). Most of us retreat to a sheltered position and choose not to take a chance on something that hasn't been explicitly endorsed. I think this retreat to blandness is at least unfortunate, and possibly even unrighteous. But that's my own belief (Scott's Private Heresy Number 1C). I believe Salt Lake's silence on such matters to be intentional, and a clear message to us that Truth and Inspiration can be found in many, many different places, forms, and media. We have to decide for ourselves. If I recall, Chieko Okazaki spoke fairly directly to this in her closing address at the last AML Conference. While I can't remember the specific words, the broad message that I came away with was "Stop waiting for guidance from the Brethren on every little thing. They're quite busy dealing with the organizational and structural elements of a worldwide church and can't micromanage all the details. If you see a need, get your hiney up out of your chair and go address it--even if it involves reaching out to people whose lives are not as orthodox as you might prefer. Don't wait to be instructed in *all* things; seek answers through prayer *and* works." Again, I don't want to put words in Sister Okazaki's mouth, but that was the impression I got from her address. And I think that's exactly how we need to treat our artistic endeavors--don't wait for the explicit approval of the Brethren, just go out and do it. I don't think there's much orthodoxy to violate in telling our stories. If we are honest there can be no sin in telling the beliefs of our hearts--aka our testimonies. It is possible, however, for us to be honestly wrong about some of the facts of our religion and its doctrines. If our publicly expressed private religion carries too many heresies, I have no doubt that some church authority will attempt to teach us correct doctrine. But we also need to understand that there is an important difference between someone trying to correct perceived errors of understanding, and someone telling us that we're in violation of a critical, foundational doctrine of the church. (A small digression on private versus public religion... There are relatively few orthodox doctrines in our church, despite our sense to the contrary. An awful lot of the specific details and daily behaviors are left to us to work out for ourselves, and there can be quite a bit of diversity in how people fill in those details. For example, I have a good friend who believes that the Word of Wisdom teaches that good Mormons should be vegetarians--his reading of the "...not be used, only in times of winter, or of cold, or of famine..." line. To express his private religion, he chooses to be a strict vegetarian. He accepts that others believe differently and that there has been no statement by the GAs about what the Mormon public religion teaches. But to be true to himself, he has established that behavior in the name of his faith and under the moniker of the Word of Wisdom. His wife believes that she knows the instant that the spirits entered the bodies of each of her children, and believes that she was in spirit-to-spirit contact with them long before they were born. That's part of her private religion, even though I wonder how true it might be. In neither case does their private belief have any impact on how the public religion defines itself. And in neither case does the public religion require that they alter their private--and probably unorthodox--beliefs. I think this concern about expressing our private religion in story lies at the core of our fear that we might violate the orthodoxy of our public religion and make claims that will later be refuted by people of authority. Exposing our private belief may make us unsuited to the company of the saints. So we often choose to stay far away from stating the particulars that private religion. ...end of digression.) Fear of being trivial ===================== This is a fear that all of us have to deal with in pretty much everything we do, but I think our concerns about orthodoxy add an extra level of difficulty for many Mormons, especially when we talk about what it means to us as individuals to be spiritual beings. The fear that our private religion might not be good enough--as Barbara says, that she might muck it up--is hard for us. We put a great deal of power into our communal definition, and anything that might expose our beliefs as unorthodox tends to raise our fear that we might be found unworthy to be called Mormon, and that public expression of anything but the blandest, most correlated version of our religious thought could lead to censure--or worse yet, to misunderstanding and damaged testimonies. This is a difficult area for many of us. We want the explicit approval of our general leadership and will sometimes go to great lengths to seek it out. That desire to be judged worthy can control us to where we close off entire avenues of expression in favor of correlation. Most of us would rather be patted on the head than swatted with a rolled-up newspaper. As Mormons, we also believe in the power of written testimony to have impact on the lives of others. What if we write something that someone misunderstands, and it causes that person to reject revealed religion or pursue apostasy? No one wants to be responsible for that. So for fear of offending we remain silent, or choose to write to anyone but our own people. We decide not to tell many difficult, powerful stories because some might be offended by our characters, our settings, or our esthetic choices. Many who feel most poignantly are the first to censor their own words. They do it for the right reasons, but what marvellous testimonies have been muted for fear of offending? What powerful stories have been silenced before being uttered? There are many approaches to telling stories. I don't like all of them and don't practice most of them, but I believe that each has value to someone. And I have this horrible, sneaking suspicion that part of the reason we don't see more diversity from Mormon publishers is that they don't see many diverse stories. They can only publish what they get--simple supply-side market limits. If we don't like what we're seeing in the bookstores, we need to write the kinds of stories we'd like to read. Some on this list are already doing that. I think more of us should try. Scott Parkin (And thank you, Barbara for the kind words at the top of your post. I think we all hope that our thoughts make sense to other people.) - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 00:37:36 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Divinity on Stage maryjanejones@att.net wrote: > I thought that the list might be interested in what > non-LDS reviewers are saying currently about Brigham > City, specifically about the religious ordinances in the > film: > > [several fascinating excerpts followed] Nope, detected no swinish pearl-trampling in these reviews. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 22:33:07 -0700 (PDT) From: William Morris Subject: [AML] Losing Our Uniqueness? (was: Divinity on Stage) - --- Thom Duncan wrote: > Are we therefore in danger of losing our uniqueness, > of becoming too > much like the world, if we continue to paint such > "normal" portraits of > ourselves? Perhaps that's a question that can be > considered in another > thread. Excellent question, Thom. A similar problem has been bedeviling Romanian artists and thinkers for a century and an half. On the one hand, Romanians like to think of themselves as Europeans, on the other hand they have a strong interest in the East (Turkey, India, China) and Eastern ideas, and, most importantly, they are in a continual search for an indigenous 'essence,' something that uniquely defines them. The possibility of joining the EU has intensified the debate (and art and artists are dragged into it, or if long gone, dragged out and quoted by both sides). If Romania becomes part of the EU (and they will be a marginal, minority part) will they be swallowed up by the culture and economy of the larger countries? Will they be giving up part of their essential Romanian-ness? The question you ask is even more interesting because it has specifically to do with how Mormon artists represent their community. My question is: why are Mormon artists painting 'normal' portraits of their community? Is it to reach a broader, non-Mormon audience? Is it to show Mormons that they are not as peculiar as they may think? Is it to try and hit both audiences, soften them up so that they get used to the idea of Mormon art? ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 00:40:41 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Divinity on Stage Thom Duncan wrote: > His "line" also shows us what kind of subject matter is appropriate for > an LDS writer: basically, everything. The Bible has stories that deal > with virtually every subject you can conceive of, including incest, > rape, adultery, murder, nudity, and lust. The line of acceptability is > very broad, if one can refrain from superimposing one's own prejudices > over the line. Which brings us full circle back to Richard Dutcher, who started it all. His answer to what kind of stories we can tell: any kind, as long as its from a faithful point of view. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 00:51:23 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Divinity on Stage David Hansen wrote: > "D. Michael Martindale" wrote: > > This is only another variation of my favorite saying that I've coined: > > "If you don't think like me, you're evil." > > I think you're going to far here. There may be some that have this view, but the > majority of those I talk to think that it's fine for Dutcher to make these movies, just > don't expect me to watch them. They may think that these scenes are inappropriate, but > I don't believe (at least I hope) that they don't think I'm evil for liking them. Well, they're not getting quoted in the papers then (big surprise). > The bigger problem may be whether any filmmaker, artist, or musician outside the > institutional church can produce anything that does not cast the church or its members > in a 100% positive light will be seen by a significant number of its members as being > "bad" or "wrong." If Dutcher's statements that he is making films "about Mormons for > Mormons" is true, then I worry about him offending a significant portion of his target > audience and being unable to continue to support his ventures. (Course with the > relative success of God's Army and Brigham maybe I worry too much. :)) The world premier of _Brigham City_ at Jordan Commons theater complex in Sandy UT scheduled a single theater for the screening of the film. By the time the night came, they had expanded it to three theaters because of the huge response in ticket purchases. Remember, these were $20 a pop tickets, because part of the proceeds went to a charitable organization. I think the number of members who reject such storytelling are not as significant as we might think. Besides, they already have their films: they can go to the ward library and check out all the church-produced videos they want. It's the other audience's turn now. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 01:56:47 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Divinity on Stage Scott and Marny Parkin wrote: > We're afraid to ever be portrayed as less than perfect, or less than > honest at all times, or less than the best possible representatives > of Christ that we can be. We strive for perfection, and thus see any > criticism of our progress as being a stumbling block, a mocking > finger from the great and spacious building. And we all know that > anyone who mocks our honest and pure effort to become perfect is > acting in proxy for Satan, and their intent is to destroy. Speaking of acting in proxy for Satan... "For behold, at that day shall he rage in the hearts of the children of men, and stir them up to anger against that which is good. And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well--and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell." [2 Nephi 28:20-21] I can't help but wonder if showing only an idealized version of Mormons in literature, film, etc., isn't a form of saying "All is well in Zion." Would I be taking too much liberty with this scripture if I were to suggest that it obliges us to show the warts of Zion in our art? Otherwise we are helping Satan lead people carefully down to hell. The reason seems clear, and Scott pegged it: how can you heal warts when you pretend they don't exist? By the way, I started quoting one verse earlier than most people would have, because the second verse gives me the audacity to interpret the first verse in an even more outrageous fashion: that those who complain about art like Richard Dutcher's wart-showing films might be among those who are stirred up to anger against that which is good. There I go, inching closer and closer to the line where Jonathan might start bouncing me. [MOD: Okay so far. But I am honestly concerned that we aren't hearing from those who *are* genuinely bothered by these elements in Richard Dutcher's films, whether they see that as a personal reaction on their part or as something that ought not to have been done, artistically. Perhaps that's simply a reflection of the forum: we're all people who love literature, and so perhaps we're quite comfortable with things of this sort appearing in literary genres such as film. In any event, the effect has been to make our discussion rather one-sided. I would welcome a post from anyone who feels he or she can accurately report or represent the feelings of those who *did* feel some discomfort--either artistic or personal--at including the sacred Mormon elements in either _God's Army_ or _Brigham City_.] - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 08:41:55 -0600 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Jessica WOAHN and Erica GLENN Profile Thank you so much, Harlow. This is wonderful. I appreciate so much any encourgement we can give to the young people, as they will be taking over. What is so satisfying is that they are all better than we were. Which includes complimenting all of you "younger" people who are so much better than my generation. I mean all of you smart Listers! Thanks. Marilyn - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 11:56:17 -0600 From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: Re: [AML] YOUNG and GRAY, _One More River to Cross_ (Review) The problem can be simply solved with the use of footnotes. Endnotes are ALWAYS troublesome. Roy Schmidt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 12:12:38 -0600 From: Kellene Adams Subject: [AML] Info About LDS Market I recently was talking to a publisher and in the natural course of the conversation, I actually informally queried her with a book for LDS readers. The company is a small niche companyt that specializes in "feel-good" type of books (I was actually doing some ghostwriting and editing for her), and she was a bit interested in the idea. She asked me questions about the potential market, and I had no answers, other than the LDS population is over 11 million now, with at least 5 million of those here in the United States. She asked about LDS bookstores (I provided general information about Deseret Book and the other smaller chains and mentioned that there were independent bookstores as well). She wanted to know if I could get specific numbers about how many bookstores. I told her I thought there was an LDS Bookseller's Association, but I wasn't sure. (You can see I'm an incredible source of informataion!) Anyway, I'm off on a research project and don't even know how to begin to collect specific numbers. Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions, facts/figures, etc.? I'd welcome any help. . . thanks, Kellene - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 14:28:27 EDT From: Derek1966@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Info About LDS Market In a message dated 5/11/01 12:09:42 PM, kelleneadams@earthlink.net writes: << Does anyone have any ideas, suggestions, facts/figures, etc.? I'd welcome any help. . >> Kellene You might want to start by contacting Mary Ann Blackham, Executive Director of the LDSBA, at 801-446-0885 or LDSBA@LDSBA.com. I'm sure she could give you all the information you need about the association. John Perry - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #320 ******************************