From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #326 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, May 18 2001 Volume 01 : Number 326 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:06:25 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Mormons as Flawed Frank Maxwell wrote: > > Thom wrote, in response to LauraMaery: > > > I don't know these people, so you may be right, but may I suggest that, > > if you were to walk a couple of days in their shoes, you may have a > > different opinion, depending, of course, on you definition of "so close > > to sinless." I know a lot of people who appear to be that way, but when > > I've got to know them better, I find them more "human" than I had > > previously thought. Just a couple of anecdotal examples. A BYU > > professor, former mission president, has a "secret" cache of quality > > films, many of them R-rated, many of them foreign films that should be > > R-rated that he regularly enjoys with friends and family. Another, a > > High Councilman, a BYU law professor, outwardly and professionally > > (based on the cases he pursued) a very conservative individual, once > > described his experience as a High Councilman to me (as he cranked up > > Pat Benatar on his car stereo) as pretty much a "Yes-man's:" game, > > describing him and his fellow councilmen as "fawning sycophants." > > I don't understand how the men in these examples are sinning. Or are you > using the word "sin" in an ironic sense? He's being disloyal to the group, considered a sin by many in the Church. > > So the former mission president has some videos of quality R-rated films. > You did say *quality*, right? And he refers to his cache as "secret". > Obviously he's being ironic. But is his collection "secret" because he > thinks he's doing wrong? Or is it "secret" because the whole R-rated movie > issue is so polarized that nobody can talk calmly about it (especially in > Provo, the ground-zero of the Mormon culture wars), and because too many > people in his community are quick to judge and slow to listen? The latter. > And I'm sure we can take the High Councilman's description of being a > "fawning sycophant" at face value. He, too, may have been speaking > ironically. And even if he wasn't, I don't think it's safe to take his > description as definitive of what goes on in his stake's high council. The > dynamics of any small group should not be judged based on one off-hand > comment, but upon the cumulative interactions and impressions of all the > group members over a fair period of time. It was also my stake high council, and my understanding through others was that was exactly how that particular stake ran. > But there's more than one way to make characters "round". One is to show > their little weaknesses in addition to their strengths, as I think you're > suggesting, Thom. The other is to show how the character's strengths were > developed through tribulation, as someone else has suggested. > > LauraMaery, an interesting experiment would be to interview a couple of the > strong, faithful people you've observed. What have they gone through? Years ago, a book was done by a BYU professor (I wish I could remember the title). He interviewed many families identified by their respective Stake Presidents as "ideal" Mormon families. Guess what he found out. These pillars of the stake broke virtually every stereotype we've come to expect from such families. In the majority of cases, for instances, family home evening (as an organized lesson) was rare. By some, films were enjoyed because of their artistic qualities, not because of their ratings. The one thing that was prevalent throughout the survey was that every member of these families were treated as individuals, as people. If the program (e.g., home teaching, early morning scripture study,) didnt' work for a particular family, they replaced it with something else. Sometimes home evening was just activity-oriented. - -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals - -------------------------- Shameless Plug - ------------------------------- Don't miss the Playwrights Circle Summer Festival at UVSC! *J. Golden* - a one-man play by James Arrington, starring Marvin Payne *SFX5* - 5 original short science fiction plays *Peculiarities* - a new full-length play by Eric Samuelsen For more information about the Playwrights Circle and our summer festival: http://www.playwrightscircle.com - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 09:27:50 -0700 (PDT) From: William Morris Subject: Re: [AML] Losing Our Uniqueness? - --- Diann T Read wrote: > On Thu, 10 May 2001 22:33:07 -0700 (PDT) William > Morris > writes: > > > My question is: why are Mormon artists painting > > 'normal' portraits of their community? Is it to > reach > > a broader, non-Mormon audience? Is it to show > Mormons > > that they are not as peculiar as they may think? > Is > > it to try and hit both audiences, soften them up > so > > that they get used to the idea of Mormon art? > > > What do you mean by "normal"? It seems to me that > "normality" is > dependent on your worldview, and what's "normal" to > a lifetime member of > the Church, particularly one born and reared in > heavily LDS areas, is > going to be very different from what's "normal" to > non-Mormons. Even > with several years of living in distinctly > non-Mormon environments, > including the military, I'm not sure I can > accurately portray a > non-Mormon community in a manner that a non-Mormon > audience would > consider "normal." So what is a "normal" portrayal > of the Mormon > community by Mormons? There's already been some excellent responses to this discussion, but I'll respond to Diann's, since it specifically asks about "normal" Mormons. Both Thom and I (since my question was a question responding to a question Thom wrote) put quotes around the word "normal" because, I believe, both of us recognize the very point you bring up---that "normal" is a relative term and there are all kinds of Mormons and non-Mormons. The orginal context of this thread was Thom's post about _God's Army_ and _Brigham City_. He noted that in both movies, Dutcher shows that Mormons are normal--missionaries are "normal" young men who like to goof off at times, our sacrament meetings look a lot like other the services other churches hold, etc. So "normal" portrayals of Mormons would be those that show Mormons exhibiting characteristics that many non-Mormons consider to be "normal." Of course, we can ask, well, what does "normal" mean in the secular world? That definition varies, but I think I'd argue that there is a certain spectrum of attitudes and behaviors that a good percentage of Americans exhibit. We could discuss the nature of those characteristics, but right now I'm just going to assume that there would be at least some that most of us could agree on. Or at least we could perhaps agree on what characteristics are seen as being outside the range of "normal." I think "normal" portrayals also have to do with treating Mormons as "normal" in the context of the work. In other words, the text itself naturalizes Mormons instead of pointing at them and saying---look at how strange/unique we/they are. I believe, Scott Parkin and others have called for more of this in our literature---where the Mormon details are there but not central to the drama, not dwelt upon and obsessed over. This question of losing our uniqueness also has to do with the forms of art that we as Mormons engage in as well as our theological beliefs. For instance, 'Jesus as friend' seems to be a kind of Mormon belief that has become more prevelant in the past three decades or so, a belief that is mirrored by many in the fundamentalist Christian world. Or, when it comes to art forms, Mormon popular music borrows much of its sound from mainstream pop music as well as Christian pop music. I think you could also argue that it's a socio-cultural phenomenon. Mormons are more solidly middle-class (lower, middle, and upper-middle----whatever those terms are worth) and are more integrated into the professional, political and corporate communities. With that comes an adoption of some of the beliefs and habits of those communities---is there anything uniquely Mormon about the annual Oakland Stake golf tournament? I don't know, I don't golf, but the fact that one exists cracks me up. I don't really have an answer to the question 'are we losing our uniqueness?' Although, I suspect that we won't--as long as we have a plurality of artists, critics and scholars who are engaging our past, present and future, and, as long as the products of that engagement are finding Mormon audiences. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 10:58:39 -0600 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Cracroft's LDS Classics (Meridian) I'm off the list for a month--we're DRIVING (the old fashioned way on tires) to Boston. Just one farewell note. Such a nice sendoff to see my books on this list. Bravo and gratitude! Also, I am reading Martha Beck and I am SO IMPRESSED! Thank you to the list for all the details you wrote about her work. I think she deserves national attention. I haven't found any anti stuff yet, however. When I finish it I'll write a little something (if I remember). Thank you to the list for EVERYTHING. You are all brilliant, analytical, yet compassionate, cute and swift! Cheers! Marilyn Brown - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 14:33:16 -0400 From: "Debra Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Donny Osmond Concert Donny Osmond was here last night in Cleveland, but I didn't get to go. As my husbanc said, "You got to France." Trust me when I say I would have chosen Donny over France if I had known what I know now. Debbie Brown - ----- Original Message ----- > This one happened to be in Columbus Ohio. The female half of the morning > show on one of the radio stations is a rabid Donny fan. They have had > several on the air phone conversations with him. And she hosted the back > stage gathering. He really has quite a following in the area. And every > one says continually how nice and gracious he is-along with what a great > voice he has, and what a fabulous concert it was. > > Tracie - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #326 ******************************