From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #349 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, June 6 2001 Volume 01 : Number 349 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2001 17:31:53 EDT From: ViKimball@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) Mormon Juvenile Literature In a message dated 5/30/01 5:54:37 PM Central Daylight Time, jlang2@pressenter.com writes: << So, tell us what you think. What would you recommend for my kids? >Oh, also be sure to tell us roughly what age group the books are = directed=20 >towards. I am interested in everything from picture books for small=20 >children up. >> This poll has not been a raving success, and I don't want to seem like I'm tooting my own horn. (But then I changed my mind.) Young readers and adults are both enjoying "Stories of Young Pioneers: In Their Own Words." published 2000 by Mountain Press of Montana. They are getting ready for a second printing. The publisher and I have received hundreds of great comments from young readers as well as adults. Children as young as ten have read it. One wrote a review for Amazon.Com. (The fact that it appeals to YA and adults has been my biggest thrill so far) If interested, you can check some of the comments on Mountain Press Web Page, and on Amazon.Com and B&N. It was awarded the 2001 Spur Award for "Best Western Juvenile Nonfiction" by Western Writers of America. (I go to Idaho Falls June 23 for my award). According to MN, I am the only Mormon to ever win a Spur Award. The press told me that Deseret Book had ordered 200 copies and were going to feature it during Pioneer Days. (Although it is not just about the Mormon angle). So, I guess that at least says something about my book. Violet T. Kimball, who is only slightly embarrassed about this shameless plug. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Young Pioneers in Their Own Words Rocks!, March 23, 2001 (Age Ten) Reviewer: NO from Bountiful, Utah USA My mom got me this book and I loved it. I couldn't stop reading it even when I was jumping on the trampoline. I thought it was great to read about kids like me, who were pioneers and had to go through such hard times. My favorite story in the book is one where they took some cows across a river and they had to seperate the moms and the babies and they didn't know how they would get them both across, but the moms and babies wouldn't leave each other and just swam across to stay together. What I liked most is learning how much these kids had to do on their own and how grown up they were. They worked just as much as the adults and some of them even had to take care of their families when their moms and dads died. I thought it was great that this book was made up from things these kids actually wrote and told about, so you could tell what they thought. I wish there were more books about how kids really are and what it was like to live in a different time. I think everyone should read this book. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:04:50 -0600 From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) Mormon Juvenile Literature Since the response to this latest of Andrew's polls was less than overwhelming, I threw out the question to another list (utahchildrenswriters). Here are some of the responses. Laura Torres (currently one of the editors at Klutz Books) wrote: Hi Sharlee Here's my short list of children's favorites by LDS authors: Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card because Card succeeds in creating real characters and realistic motivations behind what they do--something lacking in a lot of science fiction. And it has a great ending. The True Colors of Caitlynne Jackson by Carol Lynch Williams. A difficult subject tackled with humor, warmth and honesty. Unforgettable story and characters. Once There Was a Bullfrog by Rick Walton. Rick is the picture book master and this is an innovative, fun book that kids like to read over and over. Rick Walton wrote: I hate to comment on this because most of the authors are friends, and I know I'm going to forget something. There have been a lot of wonderful books written by LDS writers. Just sticking with the LDS market--I like Alma Yates' The Miracle of Miss Willie (I think that's the title) and Caroline Hofling Morris's Saddle Shoe Blues. Also Dean Hughes' Lucky series. There have been some other good middle-grade/YAs. There have been few LDS picture books published, but there have been some good ones. Very successful, Pat Bagley's I Spy a Nephite series, though a take-off on Where's Waldo, was quite fun. I liked Marty's World (can't remember the author). And there have been a few other good picture books. By LDS authors for the national market--anything by Carol Williams or Louise Plummer. (In a perfect world both would have Newbery's or Newbery honors already.) Picture books, Buehner's Escape of Marvin the Ape and Fanny's Dream. Erik Slangerup's Dirt Boy. Michael Tunnel's Mailing May. Barbara William's Albert's Toothache. There have been a lot of good ones, and I could have listed many more. Janice LeFevre wrote: I like books that teach a lesson AND make me laugh. So, here is a short list of SOME of my favorite books by LDS authors (although some of them are just plain serious, not funny). I realize that some books are marketed to adults, but teens love them too. Like Rick, I'm sure I'm going to leave something out, but here it goes: *Fanny's Dream by Caralyn and Mark Buehner -- because it is so true to life. *Little Dogs say "Rough" by Rick Walton and Henry Cole -- because it gives me the anwers to my five-year-old's questions (Why does a turkey say "Gobble, gobble?"), answers she actually accepts. :) The illustations are also perfect! Also love the ABC book with the bunnies. *Sarah's Quest and anything else by Carol Lynch Williams -- because they are about the only thing I can get my nine-year-old daughter to actually read. The stories are also well-written, interesting and appeal to girls (even my son listens in if he thinks we're not noticing). I like the word definitions and explanations. *Grandpa and Me and the Wishing Star -- good book to use to talk to children about death. *Most books by Blaine or Brenton Yorgason (Bishop's Horse Race, Double Exposure, the new Heart's Afire series) -- great story lines and interesting characters. My twelve year old likes them. *That's What Friends Are For" by Joni Hilton -- teens can relate to them and it gets you rolling on the ground in laughter. *Riddle-day Saints by Rick Walton -- Who puts the leaves back on the trees in the spring? The relief society!!!! This book is a favorite of my children (although after hearing the jokes 50 MILLION times, maybe I wish it'd never been written. Hee-hee. Sorry, Rick!) *Anything by Gerald Lund -- I catch my twelve year old son reading them WAY past his bedtime. We've listened to Lund's books on cassette and everyone except my five-year-old hangs on every word. The editing on Lund's books could be much tighter, but we all enjoyed hearing historical fiction. *Death of a Tsar by Robert Marcum -- although the prospect of a branch president getting caught up on such an adventure is hard to believe, the story is exciting and readers cannot put it down until they've read the last page. *No More Strangers, Please by Alma Yates -- totally teen-age fun. *I Spy a Nephite by Pat Bagley -- my five-year-old goes to bed with it nearly every night. It's usually open on her chest after she's fallen asleep. *The Stepping Stone series about various Book of Mormon stories by Sherrie Johnson -- my five-year-old looks at them almost every night during our scripture time. She loves them so much we bought a couple of them for the CD-ROM. *My First Articles of Faith by Deanna Draper Buck and Jerry Harston -- principles taught simply and great illustrations. I like the board book format because it makes it durable for church. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:35:03 -0600 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Emotional Honesty >Sometimes I've been manipulated >> into feeling them. Sometimes emotion blinds us to the truth, which is why >we >> shouldn't often make important decisions in the heat of strong emotion. > Anna Wight: >Isn't that what writers do? We manipulate emotion. We put sad scenes in >stories to make people cry, we put funny scenes in to make them laugh. We >put exciting scenes in to make them feel adventurous, or romantic scenes in >so that they fall in love. If you cry over a novel, that's because the >writer wanted you to. If the writer didn't manipulate emotion, then the >writing would most likely be dry and dull. The difference being manipulated and FEELING manipulated is the skill with which its done. Obviously, you're right, that the purpose of art is to manipulate our feelings somehow. The problem comes when it's done ham-fistedly, where we're practically forced to cry (or whatever). Movie classified as "tear-jerkers" are aptly named, because they often practically force the tears out of us. It's a sign of lazy writing when an author (or screenwriter) says, "Well, we want the audience to cry here, so what should we do? Oh, I remember, Screenwriting 101: Give a character cancer, and that equals instant tears!" Or if we want them to feel patriotic, we just put some stirring brass music in the background and wave a flag, accompanied by some words that would seem trite without all the accoutrements. A writer shouldn't put a sad scene in just to make people cry. He should put it in because it furthers the plot, establishes the characters, or in some other way is a valid thing to have in the story. When he puts it in JUST to make us cry, that's when it's not fair. We only have a problem with feeling emotions over a work of art when those emotions were yanked from us, and not earned. Eric D. Snider - -- *************************************************** Eric D. Snider www.ericdsnider.com "Filling all your Eric D. Snider needs since 1974." - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:33:57 -0500 From: "REWIGHT" Subject: Re: [AML] Temple in Fiction Let me ask you this. You're stranded on a deserted island. Who do you want with you. The guy who can stitch up your shark bites or teach you how to fish, or the guy who can make pretty pictures in the sand. I'm not saying artists aren't important. They are. They just aren't as important as they think they are. It would be a dull world without artists and entertainers. They do the things you have stated. They uplift, inspire, remember, expose truths etc. as well as entertain. But they do the opposite as well. Most of the time they do the opposite. Take a look at Hollywood. Where do we draw the line when it comes to the temple? It matters not that you can read the entire temple endowment on line. That's not the point. The point is, that those who enter the temple, make a sacred covenant to God to keep those things sacred. No where does it ask us to keep them sacred except if we're writing a story. I see nothing wrong with describing a temple, people outside of the church have seen the inside of temples, and that part we are not asked to not speak about. But the endowment itself is to be kept sacred. If we are not willing to do that, then why are we going to the temple? Why are we lying to God and making promises we have no intention of keeping? Anna Wight - ----- Original Message ----- From: "D. Michael Martindale" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2001 2:39 AM Subject: Re: [AML] Temple in Fiction > REWIGHT wrote: > > > But lets face it, artists, in the great scheme of things, are not as > > important personages as they like to think. Doctors, nurses, teachers, > > parents and policeman, contribute more substantially to society. They > > teach, heal and protect. > > Artists do, too. > > > > Artists on the other hand, have the chief purpose of entertaining. > > Sometimes they might uplift and inspire but essentially they are there to > > entertain and beautify. > > > But no matter how noble we may think our work is, it is still there for the > > entertainment of others. > > I resent this characterization of art. I consider entertainment to be a > subset of art, and a subservient purpose for art. The purpose of art is > to communicate the human experience to others in ways that open their > eyes to new ways of thinking. Art has done an enormous amount of > teaching over the centuries. Art has often healed people, as they read > literature or view films or videos that touch a vulnerable part of their > lives that needed healing. And art even protects. Art has often > challenged paradigms in society that were going astray, or defended > valuable paradigms that were under attack. Art protects our cultural > identity, our understanding of other human beings, our sense of right > and wrong, our connection with past generations. > > Perhaps all you produce is entertainment, and as you say, that's just > fine. But we think art is noble because it is. Even the scriptures are a > form of art, studied as literary entities, full of stories whose purpose > extend far beyond entertainment. > > Something that communicates the human experience to others in insightful > ways is sufficiently noble to make the question meaningful, how much of > the temple experience can we communicate? A great deal of the experience > is already communicated in rather mundane ways: we allow extensive tours > of every temple before dedication; the world is informed about the > purposes of the temple and the ordinances that go on in there rather > matter-of-factly; photographs of the temple interiors are displayed in > visitor centers. We already share a significant part of the temple > experience with the world. My question is merely: where do we draw the > line? > > -- > D. Michael Martindale > dmichael@wwno.com > > ================================== > Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at > http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths > > Sponsored by Worlds Without Number > http://www.wwno.com > ================================== > > > > > - > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:40:05 -0500 From: "REWIGHT" Subject: Re: [AML] Secular Prophets > > > > Thom, just thought I'd throw in a quote from B. Udall: "There are more > important things in this life than writing. Your parents, for instance. Your > loved ones. Your dog is probably more important than your writing. Stop > taking yourself so seriously. Be nice. Relax. Now go and write." (he's > giving advice to young writers here.) > Actually, I really like this quote. Writing to me is important. It may one day be how I earn my living. But there are other things far more important. Sounds like the person who made this quote has his feet firmly on the ground and has some good basic values. Including knowing that he isn't the most important person in the universe. Anna - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 13:54:29 -0500 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Basketball Doctrines: Moderator Note Folks, This thread is starting to raise a number of responses, both agreeing and disagreeing with Card's article. Since this isn't a central topic for the List, and since this is currently (still) a high-volume time, what I'm going to do is discard everything that's currently in my in-box responding to the content of Card's article (either positively or negatively), with apologies to the List members involved. Let me clarify that discussions of Church culture as it applies to writing are certainly on-topic for the List, as are discussions of arts-oriented cultural activities such as drama and music. What I'm ruling off-topic are discussions of basketball, its positives and negatives, and how it is viewed in the Church--except as that may apply directly to how we, as readers and writers, might deal with it as a topic in Mormon letters. Jonathan Langford AML-List Moderator - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 17:17:28 -0700 (PDT) From: William Morris Subject: [AML] Facial Hair (was: Last Three Days for SF X 5) - --- Thom Duncan wrote: > [MOD: I'm jealous...wish I could make it.] > [snip] > I hope to see some of you there. If I don't already > know you, please > identify yourself to the close-cropped goateed > individual at the ticket > office. Really, I'm a lot nicer person in real life > than I am on the > list. I too am incredibly jealous and wish that we could somehow just get rid of the state of Nevada. If I could live in the Bay Area, but drive to the Wasatch Front in 4 or 5 hours that would be perfect. But what I really wanted to comment on is Thom's facial hair. I too wear a close-cropped goatee (with the full approval of my wife). Orson Scott Card, Dave Wolverton, and Howard Tayler (the Mormon author of the fantastic sci-fi web comic _Schlock Mercenary_) all have facial hair. And I have noticed that at both the Berkeley University and family wards there was a rather high incidence of scruffiness, especially among the grad students. Is there a meaningful pattern here? Are Mormon artistic/intellectual types more likely to have facial hair than 'other' Mormon men? Are all the men at the AML conferences comparing beard trimming notes? Just curious. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:14:41 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Card on "Basketball Doctrines" [MOD: In line with my moderator message, I am letting this message through since it focuses on a writer's response to the newsletter, as opposed to responding to Card's particular arguments.] I find a great deal to think about in the various issues of Vigor. It just now occurred to me for the first time that, since the articles are about real problems and concerns of real Mormons, we might mine the archives for ideas to inspire some of our LDS literature. I look for stories about people whose experiences match mine in some way so I can deal with them honestly. For example, my imagination is big enough to create entire planetary civilizations, but not big enough to imagine being a happy housewife. My own emotional baggage gets in the way. Say--perhaps that could be a cathartic experience--sort of like role reversal! Pardon me while I come to some obvious conclusions in full view of everyone on the list. . . . barbara hume - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:35:25 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Missionary Stories At 09:02 PM 6/4/01 -0400, you wrote: >btw, what is "sturgeon's law"? Theodore Sturgeon, a science fiction writer, speaking of the genre, said something along the lines of "Sure, 90 percent of SF is garbage, buth then 90 percent of anything is garbage." His percentage may be high, but the point is that you will find a lot of bad stuff in SF, fantasy, romance, westerns, adventure stories, the whole thing. I think, though, that if the writer enjoyed himself writing it, the story has served a purpose, even if no one else can stand to read it. I, too, like adventure stories, as long as the characters do not exist in an emotional vacuum--doing things with no feelings about any of it. I like Hammond Innes--have you read him? I love Elizabeth Peters' Amelia Peabody mysteries--there's lots of adventure there, but the interesting facet is the wonderful characters. Who are your favorite adventure writers, and what do you like about them? Barbara R. Hume barbara@techvoice.com (801) 765-4900 - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 19:53:10 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: [AML] Definitions of Art (was: Temple in Fiction) > The purpose of art is >to communicate the human experience to others in ways that open their >eyes to new ways of thinking. I like this statement. I'm still thinking about it to decide how strongly I agree with it. I think it would prove quite interesting to cull the posts from the threads that deal with the purpose of art to see how many different definitions various members have posited during our discussions. No, I'm not volunteering to do it, but it would be enlightening-- Barbara R. Hume barbara@techvoice.com (801) 765-4900 - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2001 21:26:42 -0500 From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Missionary Stories At 09:02 PM 6/4/01 -0400, Tom Johnson wrote: >btw, what is "sturgeon's law"? According to a possibly apocryphal story (at least, he denied that it occurred for the rest of his life), science-fiction writer Theodore Sturgeon is supposed to have gotten up before a group of SF writers & readers and announced "Ninety percent of science fiction is crud*" After the audience reacted, he continued, "But then ninety percent of everything is crud." (*Some reports claim that he used a stronger word.) Many people have stated as a corollary: "Sturgeon was an optimist." - -- Ronn! :) - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 19:29:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Darlene Young Subject: [AML] DUTCHER, _Brigham City_ I finally got out to see Brigham City. I apologize because I haven't read what has already been said about the movie on this list (I didn't want to spoil my experience by reading other people's opinions) so I may be repeating what others have said. But I can't let it go without rejoicing in public. HOORAY! I'm so glad this movie has been made! The very last scene was one of the best scenes I have ever experienced in a movie. It was so well-done that it caused me to re-evaluate the entire movie, to continue thinking about and analyzing the movie for hours after, to catch in retrospect lots of masterful details from earlier in the movie that contributed to the incredible cathartic ending. For most of the movie I was vaguely uncomfortable (suspense isn't my favorite genre) and totally unaware of the little details that were going on--at least on a conscious level. But as I look back on the work as a whole, I see so many things that worked on me and brought things all together at the end. (For example, the red herrings that caused me to realize how suspicion can work on people, and how terrifying it would be to truly not be able to be positive your own fiance, for example, wasn't guilty . . . The whole theme of trusting in a person's character, thinking you know someone . . . ) Anyway, I'm still analyzing it and finding more things that made it all work. I just want to say GO SEE IT. STAY TILL THE END. IT'S SO WORTH IT. Just out of curiosity, do you think that non-members could be moved anywhere near as much by the ending? Would they catch the significance? Someone asked me about whether Dutcher can "justify" his making of a "movie like this" because it is a good way to proselytize. Is sharing truth proselytizing? Is providing a person a chance to evaluate her beliefs about trust, redemption and forgiveness proselytizing? My answer is yes, I think that this movie is an example of proselytizing in that it contributes to the good in the world. But I don't think "converting" was, or should have been, Dutcher's goal AS SUCH. What Dutcher is doing is simply creating art. I'm grateful, however, that it is moral art. Art that moved me deeply. And creating such art is a worthy goal of itself. Thanks, Richard! ===== Darlene Young __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 22:09:52 -0600 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: Re: [AML] Temple in Fiction When I first saw this thread come up, I had the knee-jerk reaction of saying of course the temple is off-limits. And then I (rather sheepishly) remembered that two of my books have a temple scene. (Yes, kettle, I'm black.) I still believe that a writer must be extremely careful when treading into this area, for all of the reasons already mentioned, including alienating readers (and God), and breaking covenants. On the other hand, my two little scenes--I think--are important to the stories, reveal nothing that shouldn't be discussed openly, and (especially the second one, which is a sealing--the first takes place in the Celestial Room) need to take place there. For me, the important part is caution and restraint. When writing a temple scene, a writer needs to put up the mental red flags and be extra aware of what is and is not appropriate, and what is and is not really needed for the story. For me, an endowment scene would probably cross the line . As I write this it seems to me that it is the actual ritual and ordinance parts that are taboo, and for good reason. I can't see anyone being offended at a scene where a character is writing a friend's name on the prayer roll, finding their locker in the dressing room, or pondering in the chapel. Just my thoughts. Annette Lyon - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 20:15:02 -0600 From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: [AML] re: (Andrew's Poll) Mormon Juvenile Literature By the way, I just found out that Rick Walton's _Bunny Day_ will be on the cover of the Winter 2002 HarperCollins catalog. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:18:43 -0600 From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] Missionary Stories I don't know if it's kosher to discuss/defend one's own work, but I would like to make a few comments on Tom Johnson's wonderful comments about missionary fiction and Angel of the Danube. From: "Tom Johnson" > Although the romance story with Magdalena at the end packed the novel into a > trashy Mormon romance genre, if I choose to read Magdalena as the figurative > symbol of his Austrian mission, then it multiplies the nostalgia, > physicalizes it, and redeems the last 70 pages of the book. Hooray! That is definately one way to read it (I realized when I read it for the first time). No comment on the lumps Tom has already taken for his genre moniker. > that. Barry isn't driven by much, unless you count the King Follet spiritual > experience at the beginning. (actually this lack of motive is an interesting > characteristic in Mormon missionary narratives. Unless you count his testimony, he doesn't have much motive? I had thought his desire to "get through" to the Austrians was quite pronounced. > What missionary narrative will break that genre? I think it must have at > least several qualities: (1) A readability by Mormon and non-Mormon > audiences. Mitchell's book is practically unintelligible to non-RMs, much > less non-members, at least I think. >From limited sample size, I disagree. Let's try it out. Including the AML list Ruth Starkman, all five NMs I know that have read it have found it a very good read, although some said the first 20 pages were difficult because of the newness. Offer it to your NM friend--they will realize it is not a proselytizing tool. I hereby offer 5 gratis copies to anyone on the list to give to NM. And > (3) more interesting missionary meditations on the world around him/her. I'm > going out on a limb here, this point is just a hunch, but I think it would > blow the world away to see an interesting reflector (non-pedantic) behind > the nametag-and it would dispense with the frivolity. > Tom J. I think Tom is right. I like the Fronc novel more and more already, and I haven't even read/written it yet. Alan Mitchell - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 01:43:28 -0400 From: "Tom Johnson" Subject: Re: [AML] Missionary Stories > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tom Johnson > >Actually I'd love to see a sister missionary pov in which the sister > >suffers from a tremendous lack of self-esteem, trudges through the streets > >and contemplates stepping in front of buses, tries to outdo the brother > >missionaries just to prove her equal ability, while inside she has no > desire > >at all to really preach the gospel, only to occupy her forlorn life. > > May one ask why you would like to see this? > > Eileen Stringer > eileens99@bigplanet.com > > Hmmm, I'm trying to decide whether the story would break stereotypes or reinforce them. I was originally thinking that a raging subtext behind the sweet-sister missionary would break stereotypes, but now that I reflect on it, perhaps not. Eileen, just out of curiosity, what is the raging subtext of the sister missionary? (perhaps you are a sister RM.) The Johnston newspaper critic praised the female miss. pov b/c he was tired of reading about the elder's raging lions. do sister miss's have raging lionesses? Tom J. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:31:04 -0600 From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] Temple in Fiction > Specifically, I've been wondering how intimately we can handle the > temple in our fiction. There must be a million fine stories waiting to > be told about the temple and what goes on in there. On the other hand, > much of what goes on in there is sacred and not to be casually discussed > outside its walls. > D. Michael Martindale Barry Monroe (Angel of the Danube) writes: May 21 Right now, I'm sitting at the International terminal at LAX and catching up my journal. I woke up at five o'clock and was too nervous to stay in bed so I drove to the LA temple this morning. I can't believe I haven't been back to the temple since I got home. The garden room is so beautiful. The person playing Eve looked like Magdalena or turned into Magdalena or something. In one part, the Lord gave Adam a helpmeet, and the Spirit whispered to me, "Is it good for man to be alone?" "Help!" I cried. The whole morning was so peaceful that I forgot the little questions and concerns. I couldn't bear to leave, so I stayed for the late morning session, then had lunch in the cafeteria. After lunch I went into the celestial room to meditate. The chandeliers reflected the light, which was as pure and clean as I had ever seen. Does light have different shades of purity? It seemed like it. I peeked in a empty room and above the altar there appeared to be a conduit of light that reached to heaven and I could request any truth from God, either past, present, or future. And so I prayed: "Thank You. Thank You. Thank You... etc. Can we say that much? Alan Mitchell - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2001 23:33:51 -0600 From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] Female Writer Wanted Scott, WOW! HOORAY! KEEP IT UP! (After all, Marilyn's off line.) I can wait to read the book. Alan > For six days Susan was a quivering sack of emotions. Until the night, > lying next to Marcus--who slept deeply and loudly while she soaked her > pillow with tears--sure that she was carrying a dead fetus, she felt > butterfly wings fluttering below her heart. Instantly the tears of > anguish became one loud sob of relief. > Marcus stopped snoring for a few seconds but he didn't wake up. > Then Susan thought something--something for which she would be > guilt-ridden for years to come. In fact, she still felt guilty for it to > this very moment. Instead of telling the child within her that she was > happy to know that he was alive and well, and that she was glad to > finally make his acquaintance, she upbraided him. She cried out in her > mind, "What took you so long? Where have you been? Why have you treated > me this way?" > > Writing across gender lines is either allowable or it's not. If it is > allowable, then there can be no restrictions. "All right, you can > describe any experience from a male/female point of view except > childbirth and sex; those you will never understand. Oh, and harassment > in the workplace ... and of course, being a professional. Well, and a > mother/father. You'll never figure that out. And a missionary too. > You'll never know what it is to be a Sister/Elder." > > Which, of course, brings us back to the impetus for all this gender talk. > "God's Army" from the male POV was all about a few individual Elders > working out their personal salvations. The same story from the Sister > POV, it seems obvious to me (whether you're male or female), will have to > include among it's many themes the travail of all Sisters in the field: > That is that they are more mature and effective as missionaries than the > Elders, but completely under appreciated and undervalued as to the > potential for their contributions to the work. I think that whoever gets > the gig needs to make a prime focus of the story the fact that Sister > Fronk finally figures out that the Elders are not in the mission field to > get converts, but to get converted. > > And I think any good female, or male writer could write that story ... > convincingly. > > J. Scott Bronson - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 00:45:27 -0600 From: Jacob Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Secular Prophets Tom Johnson wrote: > Thom, just thought I'd throw in a quote from B. Udall: "There are more > important things in this life than writing. Your parents, for instance. Your > loved ones. Your dog is probably more important than your writing. Stop > taking yourself so seriously. Be nice. Relax. Now go and write." (he's > giving advice to young writers here.) > > This quote bothers me; I don't really believe he puts his dog above writing, > but maybe he does. Do you think it is possible to believe that one is a > secular prophet while at the same time elevating his dog above his s. > prophetic role? Your dog is more important than your writing, though. Anything living is more important than anything dead. But you have to contextualize that. Your dog's every whim isn't more important than your writing any more than your child's every whim is. If there is a choice between taking your dog to a vet to treat a fatal wound and writing that next sentence, you'd better hie thee to a veterinary. The key is to recognize that there is a balance and to find and maintain it. Or don't get a dog... Much easier. Jacob Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 08:46:12 -0600 From: "bob/bernice hughes" Subject: Re: [AML] Hitler >renatorigo@bol.com.br wrote: > > > LET'S FORGET HIM !!!!! > >From: Jacob Proffitt > >I can think of no more dangerous way to handle our past. Forget? Don't >you dare. Reminds me of the phrase I see on British war memorials all over the world: Lest We Forget. I assume the phrase is from Kipling's poem below. If so, it is interesting that although the phrase was written in 1897, it has been used on WWII memorials. [MOD: Also a hymn in our hymn book, at least the first three verses. Which, by the way, I actually led in our ward a year or two ago for Independence Day...] - - Bob Hughes Recessional (A Victorian Ode) God of our fathers, known of old -- Lord of our far-flung battle line -- Beneath whose awful hand we hold Dominion over palm and pine -- Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet, Lest we forget -- lest we forget! The tumult and the shouting dies -- The Captains and the Kings depart -- Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice, An humble and a contrite heart. Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet, Lest we forget -- lest we forget! Far-called our navies melt away -- On dune and headland sinks the fire -- Lo, all our pomp of yesterday Is one with Nineveh and Tyre! Judge of the Nations, spare us yet, Lest we forget -- lest we forget! If, drunk with sight of power, we loose Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe -- Such boastings as the Gentiles use, Or lesser breeds without the Law -- Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet, Lest we forget -- lest we forget! For heathen heart that puts her trust In reeking tube and iron shard -- All valiant dust that builds on dust, And guarding calls not Thee to guard. For frantic boast and foolish word, Thy Mercy on Thy People, Lord! Amen. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2001 01:32:36 -0400 From: "Tom Johnson" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Literature as Distinct? William, Let me provide more of the context of the Marcus-Evenson interview. Marcus is asking Evenson about his sources, the influences that shaped Evenson's writing. Evenson says that it is beneficial to borrow techniques and styles from others, but one should borrow from a *broad range* of sources, rather than just a select group of writers. Evenson says, "I also think that when borrowing becomes too incestuous, too much confined to a small group of writers or a certain type of writer, it loses its power. Good borrowing makes unexpected links. The American writers I like seem to me to have stepped outside of the writers. Zimbabwean author Dambudzo Marechera says, ' Either you are a writer or you are not. If you are a writer for a specific nation or a specific race, then [MOD: epithet deleted].' I agree. Maraechera himself is an interesting case. His stories are highly autogiographical and take place in the ghetto where he grew up in, but his prose has gathered textures and rhthms from all over the globe--from Russia and from England as wel las from African writers. Even in his most personal and African moments he is carrying on a conversation with writers from elsewhere. Gordon Lish and Paul Auster's writings are in some senses similar--their fictions are seemingly autobiographical and most often take place in New York, but you see their best fiction addressing Austrian writers, French writers, Irish writers" (http://webdelsol.com/eveson/beven.htm). Maybe what he's getting at here is an appeal for Bhaktin's heteroglossia. If LDS writers close themselves off from non-LDS voices, and draw only from LDS sources, then perhaps there will be a kind of inbreeding of LDS voice, and Zion will become more and more insular and impenetrable and narrow and cleft-footed. See more responses to your points below. > As a comparatist (that's what us comparative > literature folk call ourselves), I can't help but > respond to this idea, so, although this thread has > been somewhat dormant, I'm going to give it a go. On > the one hand, us comparatists, once we got over that > trying-to-find-the-universal-narrative thing (which > was essentially an exercise in Eurocentrism in > reaction to WWII---not a bad thing, but very > limiting), have been deconstructing notions of race > and nation and literature. We often deal with all > that stuff that has now become so very trendy in > cultural studies---writing on the margins, hybridity, > multi-lingualism, 'minor' literatures (except we no > longer use the word 'minor'---I forget what the new > term is), etc. We show how the works of various > writers challenge fixed notions of nation and race and > gender. I think there is a difference between attempting a heteroglossic voice and a universal voice. I would promote the former, not the latter. I think it would be healthy to have a black voice occassionally appear in Jack Weyland, don't you? > > On the other hand, such a quote seems to me to be an > exercise in wishful thinking. Writers come from > communities, and no matter what their ties with those > communities are or become, their work gets filtered > through all those categories (both in production and > consumption) of race, ethnicity, language, religion, > nation and geography that are tied in to the writers' > community(ies). And it's a perfectly viable exercise > to discuss how a writer's work relates to these > categories. Thus, Kafka is a Jew, a Czehk, a German > speaker, a citizen of Prague, a bachelor, etc. > Yes, I agree, of course, that race, language, religion, nation, and geography factor into the text. However, I enjoy reading both Franz Kafka and Ralph Ellison as well as Saul Bellow and Jorge Luis Borges, each of which is markedly different from each other in the abovementioned categories, and deserves to be studied in terms of its historical and socio-cultural context; but despite these particularities, each writer seems to reach a general audience, i.e., the common reader can read all of these works and, if not totally understand them (who understands Kafka anyway), at least enjoy them. But with Mormon lit., the common reader suddenly finds an intricate labrynth of insider culture that is difficult to penetrate and understand without an accompanying text explaining Mormonism. As long as Mormon lit remains inaccessible like that--inaccessible because it is so immersed in the particularities of culture, and is driven by that inaccessibility--then it will always erect a Berlin Wall between itself and the world. I'm not saying that Kafka or Ellison isn't driven by culture, but somehow they've made that culture accessible. Not by explaining it, but perhaps by parabolizing it, or somehow allowing us to explore the culture without giving a guided tour of it. I recently had a non-member friend tell me he'd purchased a number of LDS books and couldn't seem to get into any of them. He was writing a novel about two Mormon brothers, one of which, the righteous one, was making a documentary film of the other, the unrightous one. The unrighteous one was a heavy drug-user. I asked to read the manuscript and, although I found the story interesting, the writer didn't seem to be able to penetrate the Mormon culture. (note--i was going to help him do that this summer but he himself died of a drug overdose the other week. ouch.) When, to this list, I inadvertently resurrected the question, 'Should Mormon Literature be a distinct genre?', I was not suggesting that Mormon Lit could not fit into a category like African-American lit, Jewish lit, Postcolonial lit, Victorian lit, and so on, but that Mormon Lit. should not be so distinct that it can't find appeal to a general audience who isn't familiar with the insider culture. Moreover, if we take what Brigham Young says about truth, that whatever truth exists in the world, be it facts of science, tenets of sociology, or principles of biology, that truth *belongs* to Mormonism. Why not stretch that to the realms of literature too? Whatever is good, true, and beautiful in the literature of the world *belongs* to Mormon literature? That way when I read Kerouc's _On the Road_ and feel an immediate connection with the Dean Moriarty character, I wouldn't have to say, "well, this unfortunately is not Mormon literature, but is good nonetheless." I could say, "Yes, this is Mormon literature, of the highest kind." I know that is kind of an odd stretch, but I can see Brigham Young nodding his head in agreement with me. Surely this topic has been hashed over a hundred times in scholarly articles. Maybe you can simply recommend some to me so I can give a more informed response. Tom J. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #349 ******************************