From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #365 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, June 20 2001 Volume 01 : Number 365 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 02:42:28 -0400 From: "Tom Johnson" Subject: Re: [AML] UDALL, _The Miracle Life of Edgar Mint_ (SL Tribune) I thought these two statements were interesting: A. > This past week I saw a letter that my mom received from one of the editors of > the Friend, stating that the church magazines will no longer be publishing > fiction and have been instructed to put in more articles from general > authorities and true stories. > > John Perry > B. "One of the jobs of an artist is to step across the > line and imagine the other. The last thing I wanted to do was write about > myself." (interview with B. Udall) Why is one of the jobs of an artist to step across the line and imagine the other? - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 02:26:20 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Critical Anthology Melissa Proffitt wrote: > >Would an anthology of short fiction featuring short comments by the > >authors and short interpretive essays by reviewers or critics be > >interesting? > One of the reasons I still like Isaac Asimov's story and essay collections > is because in most of them, he provides commentary on the circumstances > surrounding the creation, sale or publication of each item (as well as > addenda and corrections in some cases). I find this very interesting. It > doesn't necessarily make me like the *stories* any better, or feel that I > understand them better; the mini-essays are just...extras. Like getting a > DVD and watching the bonus footage or director's commentaries. The thing I like best about Orson Scott Card's definitive collection of short stories, "Maps in a Mirror," are the comments about every story and the circumstances under which he wrote them. More than the stories themselves (since I'm not a big fan of short stories). - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 02:35:31 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Richard Dutcher interview (Deseret News) Barbara Hume wrote: > One of my elders was not known for his tact. When I agreed to be baptized, > he asked me if I had a white dress and I told him no. He called the > bishop's wife and said, "Is there a lady in the ward fat enough to own a > dress Sister Hume can be baptized in?" The church must be true, or the missionaries would have ruined it years ago! - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 06:38:08 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Manipulative Endings > And if this is what you are > saying, would that mean that a book like "Where the Red Fern Grows," that I > always cry at the ending of, is manipulative because I am feeling the pain > of a young boy about the loss of his dogs, and everybody loves kids and > dogs? Yes. Comedy is another thing that has similar extremes. An old lady trips and falls on a banana peel. We laugh. Is that excellent comedy or are we laughing at something else? The suddenness of the action? The fact that it's an old lady and we don't normally expect old lady's to go flying through the air, bloomers flying? > How does that have anything to do with realistically showing sacrifice, > hardship and true rewards? I don't think that Testaments is emotionally > manipulative just because they show a blind father being healed. It isn't. It's just the way it's done in THAT movie. Here's an example of how I think you could get the same emotion in a less manipulative way. Make Helam one helacious son-of-a-gun that no one likes. I mean, this guy is bad. He is the classic non-believer. He thinks this whole Christ coming to the Bountiful temple is so much nonsense. The audience gets the distinct impression that this guy will never convert. Well, Christ comes, Helam (who isn't blind, because that in itself is manipulative) takes one look at the glorious visage, drops to his knees, and begs forgiveness for his life of sin. I realize now that I've just in essence re-created one of the most spiritually impressive scenes in Jesus of Nazareth, when Peter realizes he's been a stupid, stupid man. He kneels before Christ in Matthew's house and begs forgiveness for having wrongly judge Matthew. - -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:39:54 -0500 From: "REWIGHT" Subject: Re: [AML] _The Testaments of One Fold and One Shepherd_ > > Do people cry when they fell the Spirit, or do they cry because they've > heard a moving story. I can't speak in public about my wonderful > children without choking up. Is that the Spirit, or just my fatherly > love taking over my normally sour-puss exterior? People cry for both. Each spiritual experience can be different. When I first discovered the gospel, I didn't cry, I flew. That is, I had so much energy I had to go and do some physical exercise to get rid of it. Other times, I've felt the spirit inspire me intellectually. Others have made me cry. Is it up to someone else to decide whether someone is having a spiritual experience or not? If I see someone bearing testimony and they're crying, is it my place to judge whether the spirit is touching them? If they say it is, shouldn't I accept that? > > Never? Why not? Wasn't Mary human? Aren't humans sometimes cold, and > sometimes warm and loving? Yes, but when she's shown in only a couple of scenes, she should be shown for the loving woman she was. Heavenly Father would not have sent Jesus to just any woman. He would have to pick a woman who would be capable of raising a God, yet still be able to discipline and love him as a boy. > > Was Christ laughing when he kicked people out of the Temple. Was he > kind and considerate when he called the Pharisees sepulchers of > dead-men's bones. I'm not talking about those instances. I'm talking about being cold and rude to his apostles and followers. > > > > > One had Satan, during Christ's temptation, dressed in a suit. Well, Satan > > might appear to men in a suit now, but in Christ's time I don't think he > > would. > > That could be an artistic decision. Unless you were to insist that the > only way to tell Christ's life is to be absolutely historically > accurate, this shouldn't make much difference. Except it can be quite disconcerting to watch and take away from the message. The viewer sits there wondering "why is Satan wearing a suit". It becomes laughable. > > Christ grew line upon line. He didn't know who he was from the start, > and even appeared to doubt at the very end. "Eloi, Eloi, lama > sabacthani," He cried on the cross. "God, God, Why hast thou forsaken > me?" What is that, if not a temporary loss of faith? He knew who he was at twelve. He sat in the temple teaching "his fathers" teachings. As for the moment on the cross. Isn't there something about God withdrawing? He withdrew so that Jesus could finish his work. So if Christ felt that, he might ask why. That's not a loss of faith. That's asking a question to someone you know exists. Bear in mind too, that although Christ was half God he was also half human, and he had a very real human body. The pain was excrutiating. He may have been calling out to His father for help. That is not a loss of faith either. Anna Wight > > -- > Thom Duncan > Playwrights Circle > an organization of professionals > > > > > - > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm > - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 09:20:29 -0500 From: "REWIGHT" Subject: Re: [AML] Manipulative Endings > > This is how to tell the difference. Have someone kick a dog on screen. Tears > well up in the viewers. That's manipulation. > > Have someone kick Hitler. If tears well up for the pain Hitler feels, that's not > manipulative. Oh I see. So what you're saying is, that if we write or show bad things that happen to good people, then we are being manipulative. Well gee, there goes my writing career. So Thom as a playwrite, are you telling me that when you write about good people nothing bad ever happens to them. Or do you just write about bad people and try and make your audience feel sorry for them? Anna Wight - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 11:20:42 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Play the New Game: "All Movies Have Happy Endings!" Steve wrote: > > Thom, > > What a service! You could set up a booth outside theaters and help folks > through the steps of mourning (denial, acceptance, anger, intense quilting, > etc.) after heartbreaking movies, sending them home with a song in their > hearts and cash in your pocket. You write the song and I'll do it. > > Just last night Johanne and I watched "Amadeus" and I'd LOVE to hear about > that happy ending. This one requires me to elaborate on what I mean by a happy ending. I prefer the word "uplifting" ending. Just as not every film is a drama, or a comedy, not every ending is "happy" (as defined by the term "feel-good movie of the year.) Some moves may have "downbeat" endings that are nevertheless "uplifiting" because of the message on is left with, or the thought process that is engendered by virtue of the film. Amadeus doesn't have a happy ending in the traditional sense that one skips on the way home. It does, however, have an uplifting ending. For a few hours, our ears have been blessed by Mozart's wonderful music, we've seen some incredible performances, and we've been caused to think about what it means to be "loved of God." Amadeus is a perfect Mormon movie. It teaches us that being righteous is not the only thing it takes to be a great artist. One must also have talent. - -- Thom Duncan Playwrights Circle an organization of professionals - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 12:44:48 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Critical Anthology >Would an anthology of short fiction featuring short comments by the >authors and short interpretive essays by reviewers or critics be >interesting? I know I love to hear authors talk about their fiction, and I >would love to see both the author's and a critic's view of the same >text. Would any of you find that interesting? Would you pay money to see >work by some of the better-known names in Mormon lit handled this way? I would enjoy such a work. I've been reading a book called _Georgette Heyer: A Critical Retrospective_. The book includes all the reviews and essays about this writer's work that the compiler was able to find or get permission to use. Although some of the critics make what I consider really stupid remarks, the book as a whole helps me understand and appreciate the body of Heyer's work. Even the commentaries on her mysteries, which I'm not particularly interested in, help me to understand why she makes certain choices in writing her historical fiction. I always like knowing why a writer chooses a certain POV, or creates a certain scene, or has the story end at a certain point--things like that. barbara hume - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:07:24 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Book-Free Zones, 6/14/2001 At 05:48 PM 6/15/01 -0700, you wrote: >I'm forwarding this intact as of some interest to aml members. > >Jeff Thanks for sending us that URL, Jeff, although I couldn't find the book list on the site. Haven't learned good navigation skills yet, I guess. Say, is that the Watergate Coulson? barbara hume - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:41:24 -0600 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: Re: [AML] DUTCHER'S _The Prophet_ (was: _Testaments_) J. Scott Bronson wrote (of Emma): I fear that Brigham Young's opinion of her has lasted through the years and we have adopted it as doctrine. That's rather shameful I think. I hope she gets her due in Richard's new project. I really do. Speaking of Richard's new project . . . My husband and I attended a workshopped production at BYU the other day, which was an opera of Joseph's life. It was very rough in parts, but one of the biggest things that bothered my husband is that it didn't address polygamy at all. He insisted that to accurately portray Joseph's life, a production would have to at least _address_ the thing that was Joseph's biggest trial. (We also had a discussion of various trials Joseph went through, and this would definitely rank in the top three, he feels, and I agree.) My husband finished by referring to the upcoming _The Prophet_ . "If Dutcher doesn't deal with polygamy in the movie, I'll have no respect for him at all." I'm not sure what I think. On one hand, I pointed out that polygamy is a huge story in an of itself, and might overwhelm the rest of the film to do it justice. But I think he has a point, too. Joseph really struggled with the doctrine, and it devastated Emma. I hope Dutcher shows something of this issue. What do you all think? And Richard, can you answer this one without giving anything away? Do you deal with polygamy in the film? Annette Lyon - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:08:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] Manipulative Endings > > >Have someone kick Hitler. If tears well up for the pain Hitler feels, > that's not > >manipulative. > > >Thom I would argue that would be manipulation also - since our cultural bias is to consider Hitler worthy of a kick (and much more) - in order for us to sympathize, we would have to be manipulated in some way in order to reverse our prejudices. - --Ivan - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:26:09 -0600 From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Visual Trappings >Someone said somewhere in one of these posts a quote along the lines of >"if >the prophet doesn't have facial hair, then we shouldn't either". That >isn't >the real quote, I can't remember what it was. Anyway, does that mean if >the >prophet is bald then all men should shave their heads? Yeah, my response to that one is always that the prophet doesn't wear a bra, but I think I'll continue to wear mine. :-) The beard issue to me has always been one of personal taste, as long as it is well maintained. When my husband and I were temple workers in Las Vegas it was the policy of the temple presidency that they wouldn't tell anyone that they had to shave in order to be a temple worker. The workers were encouraged to be clean-shaven but were equally encouraged to sincerely pray about it and make their own decision. In an "inservice" type meeting one worker with a mustache tried to really press the Temple President to make a definitive statement about facial hair and it was quite comical to watch them playfully stear clear of such a definitive statement. The worker would say, "President, I'm very attached to this stuff I've got growing on my face but if you tell me to shave it off then I will" and the word back was always "You pray about it and decide what you want to do but I'm not going to tell you to shave it off." I don't know if the brother ended up shaving, but I believe he wouldn't have been discriminated against in any way if he hadn't. Marianne Hales Harding _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 14:37:03 -0600 From: Russ Asplund Subject: RE: [AML] Play the New Game: "All Movies Have Happy Endings!" > Still, I'd like to see your take on a couple of films. > > _Jacob's Ladder_ In movies like this, it is important to not make the mistake that the ending is the final scene. The true ending in these kinds of films is what the audience member takes away with them. In the case of Jacob's Ladder, it's the theme that is the happy ending: Redemption is good for the soul. >>>> I've always though _Jacob's Ladder_ did have a happy ending, and that most of the Critics got it wrong. The woman he's living with, and in fact his entire existence through most of the movie, seems to me symbolic of clinging to the physical comforts of life. In the end, when he lets go of that, he is met at the stairs by the son who's death he mourned and walks up the stairs toward a bright light. Yes, he has died, but in doing so he has come to piece, been reunited with his family, and embraced the spiritual. What more of a happy ending could you want. The movie was scary, but I've always found it uplifting in an odd sort of way. And not just in theme, but in seeing a troubled soul come to peace. War of the Roses, however, just stunk. The only thing I came away thinking was that stupid and selfish people deserve each other. Russell Asplund p.s. Uh, hi there. I'm Russell. I've been lurking, but this is the first time I've dared dip my foot in the water and post. Maybe I'll post a greeting message sometime if anyone cares. [MOD: Hi Russell. You can run but you can't hide...] - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:00:04 -0500 From: "Darvell Hunt" Subject: Re:[AML] Play the New Game: > Still, I'd like to see your take on a couple of films. > > _Jacob's Ladder_ > _Seven_ > Okay Thom, I've got one. Thelma and Louise. I happened to have very much liked _Jacob's Ladder_ and _Seven_, tho there were parts of each that I didn't like. I also liked _Thelma & Louise_ but I must admit that, being a man, I didn't get the ending, tho I could see the power in it. But it felt empty to me. The ending that I'd like to understand is last scene of _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon." I did like the film and thought it was worthy of four academy awards, but I didn't understand the denouement. The real ending just before that was okay, but going back to the training facility really confused me, and the flying off the bridge was just lost on me. I'm curious if a cultural gap caused this confusion, but to me, it just seemed weird. Endings in my stories rarely occur like that. My endings are usually wrapped around the story and tied up like a pretty little bow. For many films, the journey to the end is what's important, but it's hard not to concentrate on the final state of things at the last few minutes or seconds of the story. Now I'm not one to miss the significance of abrupt endings, as I understand the point of some of them more than my non-writer friends do. But on the other hand, sometimes I don't see the point, either. Take, for example, the last scene of _Brigham City_. The last scene was certainly after what seemed like the real end of the story, but the final scene made the whole story so much more powerful that just the end of the action. I'm embarrassed to say that I cried thru most of the final scen, mostly because I caught the symbolism of it all. (My wife thought my crying was "Cool.") But the fact remains that: an abrupt, confusing ending can taint an otherwise excellent story. I feel that was the case with _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon." (I'd still add my recommendation to Doug Wright's to go see the film, but be prepared to read the subtitles.) Darvell _____________________________________________ Free email with personality! Over 200 domains! http://www.MyOwnEmail.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:30:15 -0500 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Re: Mountain Meadows Massacre (comp) >From vedahale@yahoo.com Mon Jun 18 17:07:16 2001 Yes, Elizabeth, many of us have probably dealt with this and other unpleasant things. As a descendant of Lee I have dealt with it up one side and down another. Resolved? Some things never really get that way, but they can be "dealt with". Also as one who has been into the novel "The Giant Joshua" very deeply, as I am writing the biography of the woman who wrote it, and as a mother whose 30 year old son just had to "deal" with what you are now faced with, I found that it helped him to realize he had to get a setting first before making judgment. And the "Joshua" gives about as good a setting of the times as I can think of. It is not a direct hit, but it does paint how precarious survival was. Without understand much of the parifery, it is a mighty bitter pill to try to swallow. Veda Hale - -------------------------------------------------- >From scottparkin@earthlink.net Mon Jun 18 21:22:00 2001 Elizabeth Hatch wrote: >I've been wanting to read Marilyn Brown's _Wine-Dark Sea of Grass_, >but I don't have it yet, so I went on the internet and did a search >for Mountain Meadows Massacre. [SNIP] >Can any of you recommend books I can read, or give me information, >that will help me process these things? I'm so grateful that I can >turn to all of you. I honestly don't know who else I could ask >about these things. I feel certain that many, or most, of you have >already dealt with them. Thank you so much. >[MOD: I have always heard that the most reputable place to start is >with Juanita Brooks's book, entitled, I believe, _The Mountain >Meadows Massacre_. Comments?] I've read this particular book and can heartily endorse it as a good starting point. Brooks tries very hard to tell the story straight, to include many of the incriminating bits on both sides of the issue, and to offer mitigating details on both sides as well. I don't know if it's the most accurate portrayal or not, but it raises enough questions about all sides of the event to provide some good context in which to read other accounts and handlings. There is a monument at the Mountain Meadows site in southern Utah. I saw it a number of years ago and the site was disappointingly bland and PC, with only the most veiled allusion to what happened, and no statements about who did what. I understand it's been redesigned somewhat; I'll try to make it down there this weekend and see if the new site is more informative. Scott Parkin - --------------------------------------- >From althlevip@msn.com Tue Jun 19 07:32:23 2001 Yes, read Juanita Brooks' _Mountain Meadows Massacre_ and also her biography _John Doyle Lee: Zealot--Pioneer Builder--Scapegoat. Levi Peterson althlevip@msn.com - --------------------------------------- >From LSWeber@aol.com Tue Jun 19 20:47:29 2001 In a message dated 06/18/2001 4:32:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eedh@emstar2.net writes: > Can any of you recommend books I can read, or give me information, that > will help me process these things? I'm so grateful that I can turn to > all of you. I honestly don't know who else I could ask about these > things. I feel certain that many, or most, of you have already dealt > with them. Thank you so much. > I hope this is an appropriate response to this post. It's a product endorsement, and one that I'll benefit from, but here goes. Stop me, moderator, if I'm breaking any rules! I have a very small publishing company (with a partner), called Packer Press. We published a series of three historical fiction books by John McRae in the last three years. We had hoped that we'd benefit from the huge success of TWATG serries, but we just couldn't grab onto those coattails! They've not done as well as we'd hoped, but they are selling, and we even have a movie producer interested. So, we'll see! The books are titled _Fire in the Snow_, _Fire and Fury_, and _Soul Fire_. The first book begins with a group of immigrants and chronicles their journey from England to Utah in 1856. They end up in the Martin Handcart company. (Note: I should acknowledge that this book was originally published by Deseret Book in 1993. When it went out of print the author retained publishing rights, gave them to us, and we republished the book and pubished the two sequels.) The second book covers the next year or so with the same group (the survivors) settling in to Utah territory and getting caught up in Johnston's army's invasion. Some of the characters also become involved with the Fancher train, and we see these characters involved on both sides of the massacre. I don't know if a book of fiction is something that would be of interest to you, but if I may say so, I believe that John's treatment of this episode is the most even-handed I've seen. Of course, I'm biased, but I felt much different about the event after reading his book than I did before. He captures the context of the event and brings it vividly into perspective. I felt that I understood the people of Cedar City much better and felt less willing to categorically judge them. I still think that what they did was tragically wrong, but could I say that I would've done differently if I were in their shoes? I don't know. But, I am much more at peace with the tragedy now. The third book continues with the occupation of Johnston's army of Utah territory, and only mentions Mountain Meadows in passing a couple of times, just enough to hint that the people knew that something terrible had happened, but didn't want to really know or talk about. I wish that I'd had the books reviewed on this list when they first came out. Ben suggested that I do so, but that was one thing that I didn't seem to be able to get done. The books are available at most LDS bookstores, and you can buy them together in a set now. I hope this helps. Sometimes fiction, in this case, historical fiction, helps us understand events much better than history. Lloyd Weber (no relation) Packer Press - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:30:26 -0500 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Re: _The Testaments of One Fold and One Shepherd_ (comp) >From OmahaMom@aol.com Tue Jun 19 00:45:07 2001 "Eli, eli,..." IS it a temporary loss of faith, or a recognition that the Father had withdrawn from the event? Karen Tippets - ------------------------------------- >From REWIGHT@telusplanet.net Tue Jun 19 10:37:42 2001 > > If I've missed the point of a film, it's the film's fault for not > getting the point across better. That's one painful lesson I've learned > as a writer being critiqued by discerning readers: if it's not there, > it's not there, no matter how much I want to believe it was. But if other people got the point, then how is it the films fault that you missed it? Understanding is two way. No one film is going to hit every person the same way. That does not make the film a failure. Anna Wight - ----------------------------- >From cgileadi@emerytelcom.net Tue Jun 19 14:37:03 2001 Thom writes: Do people cry when they fell the Spirit, or do they cry because they've heard a moving story. I admit that I cry when I know a story well and even when I realize that I'm being manipulated. Doesn't mean I feel the Spirit, just that I'm responding to the story. It's not productive to put too fine a point on who's truly feeling the Spirit and who's not; it's just a good idea to understand that tears do not necessarily equal a spiritual experience. Cathy Cathy (Gileadi) Wilson Editing Etc. 1400 West 2060 North Helper UT 84526 - ------------------------------------- - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 22:30:37 -0500 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Re: GAs in Church Pubs (comp) >From eedh@emstar2.net Mon Jun 18 15:52:16 2001 Well, it's official. I just called the Friend office and was told that they are in the process of returning all fiction pieces to the authors. It might be several months before we receive them. The Friend bought two of my fiction stories in the past year. The woman I spoke to said I could begin submitting them somewhere else. Beth Hatch - ------------------------------------------ >From ronn.blankenship@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Mon Jun 18 17:40:52 2001 At 03:50 PM 6/18/01, John Perry wrote: >This past week I saw a letter that my mom received from one of the editors of >the Friend, stating that the church magazines will no longer be publishing >fiction and have been instructed to put in more articles from general >authorities and true stories. So is anyone here planning to jump in and grab this opportunity to start an independent magazine to publish the kind of fiction the Church magazines used to publish? - -- Ronn! :) - ------------------------------------- >From thj5@columbia.edu Tue Jun 19 00:37:46 2001 Something I've often wondered about books by general authorities, apostles, etc., the hundreds that you see lining every Deseret Bookstore--does Joseph B. Worthlin get royalties for every hardbacked and published testimony of Christ he sells? Tom Johnson - --------------------------------------- >From REWIGHT@telusplanet.net Tue Jun 19 10:37:46 2001 Since the church owns and runs the magazines, I guess we can't complain much. Sad to hear there will be no more fiction. I would like to see a magazine more member friendly. I guess I would really like to see a RS mag. One that people can actually contribute to. Is there any out there? And I don't mean online ones. I want hard copy that comes to my door. If I had money, I'd start one. Anna Wight - ------------------------------------------ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:51:45 -0700 From: harlowclark@juno.com Subject: [AML] re: Temple in Fiction On 04 Jun 2001 Christopher Bigelow (for which my spell checker suggests "Billow" --when upon life's bigelows you are tempest tosst-- of course my name comes through the spellchecker as Harlot) wrote: >>>>> The temple is one of those kneejerk areas in Mormon culture where people can get pretty irrational. I once had a missionary companion get extremely upset with me for discussing the carpet color and carpet sculpture patterns of various celestial rooms.=20 >>>> This comment reminded me of my latest AML Symposium paper, so I'm including an excerpt here: While I was meditating on this the eyes of my understanding were opened and methought I saw a large white room with a stained-glass window representing the river of endless life. Great multitudes were entering the room through a veil, and in two chairs sat two ancient men in deep discussion. I leaned forward, straining to hear what they were saying. Socrates: How is it done, Ion? How is it just that the actions of one can be surrogate for the actions of another? And tell me more why you think literature and art are vicarious work of the same kind the folk in this room perform. Ion: Good Socrates, do not our bodies teach us? Socrates: And how, my dear Ion? Ion: What do we sit in? Socrates: Chairs, of course. Ion: And are our chairs the same? Socrates: The style is the same, but yours is more of a couch and mine has a high back and open armrests. Ion: And are there other chairs in this room? Socrates: There are. Ion: And are they all the same? Socrates: They are not. Ion: What makes them all chairs? Socrates: But you don't believe in the ideal realm, Ion. Ion: The ideal realm sits in the chair, Plato, as witnessed by the names we give the parts of a chair, back, seat, legs, arms. We name the chair after our bodies because the chair is a surrogate for our bodies. A chair is a chair because of how well it conforms to our bodies, not to some invisible realm. Socrates: But are we talking here, good man, of the art of making chairs or the art of making songs? Ion: We are talking of vicarious service. Certain things must be done for each person, and certain things cannot be done by every person. Not every person can emulate Jesus=97and Socrates=97because not every person has heard of Jesus, or Socrates. Socrates: Or the Beatles. Ion: Precisely, but baptism requires a body and a body of knowledge, and if you leave your body without having the knowledge to ask for baptism how can you get it. It must be done by someone in the flesh, who offers us the gift of his body for an hour or two. Socrates: Except when they fall asleep. I hear that all vicarious workers who die must give all they worked for an account of what happened while they slept through the ceremony. Ion: A rite of passage. Socrates: But surely you are not saying that the value of literature is that it channels _our_ words since we can no longer write them down? Ion: No, but that balding fellow over there is sure trying to get them down. I am saying that poetry and art perform the same function for us as does a chair, as do the people who sit in them and sleep during the film: Literature does for us what we cannot do for ourselves. Socrates: How? Ion: Not many of us have had our parents throw Thanksgiving dinner at each other, or seen our mother beaten, had a brother executed for murder, or another brother murdered, though he lived for several months afterward. Not many of us have had people tell us we should have been killed with our brother. Mikal Gilmore wrote Shot in the Heart to save his life. He begins with a dream of his brother Gary coming back and handing him a gun=97with the promise of reunion. He sticks it in his mouth and pulls the trigger. His teeth and mouth dissolve into nothing. Gary has lied. There is no one waiting for him. Socrates: It is a shattering book=97but could not someone read such a record of disaster and be overwhelmed with sorrow, or even want to live the life of Gilmore? For all the horror of his family life Gilmore is nostalgic for the early family life he missed. Ion: We all want to know how the world worked before us. Socrates: Why would I want to fill my mind with tragedy? Why would I want to yearn, with Gilmore, for the tragic family life I missed much of? Ion: Why would you not want to mourn with Gilmore that all he can yearn for in the pre-Mikal existence is a violent family? Socrates: But could not some readers be misled by the nostalgia? Ion: Only if they ignore the tragedy. Socrates: But could they not also be shocked, stunned, shaken by the unrelieved misery, by Mikal's final, terrible dream? Ion: We must contemplate the depths of sorrow people can sink in, and the depths of evil they can sink to, or the depth of eternity will be like an abyss. Gilmore takes us into the tragedy, but brings us back safely, even with that final, terrible dream. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D There's more, of course, and I hope to write more dialogues, especially one between Hester Prynne and Socrates. The Athenians would rather not have executed Socrates, and there were ample opportnities to escape or go into exile, but in the Phaedo he tells Xanthippe, his wife, that any alternative would mean living in disgrace. That, of course, is what Hester Prynne chose--life, even if it meant living in disgrace. Room for some interesting words between them. A note about Socrates' comment, "Except when they fall asleep. I hear that all vicarious workers who die must give all they worked for an account of what happened while they slept through the ceremony." I lifted that from a story I drafted a few years ago. A man's wife comes to take him to the other side, but before they get to that joyous reunion we all grew up seeing in "Man's Search for Happiness," she steps away from him,=20 "Everyone goes through this and everyone goes through it alone." A crowd of men approached him. "In the temple you are our eyes and ears. When you sleep in the ceremony we never get to find out what's going on." He listened to their questions, then said, "Well, it appears at one time or another I've slept through every part of the ceremony." I've never done anything with the story. The story implies that he talks them through the ceremony, but it doesn't say what he tells them, and I don't want it to. I'm not sure what I'll do with it. Right now it seems most promising as a frame story, something I can hang a bunch of narratives on about different times and places as each man tells his story. I probably won't say anything about carpet sculpture patterns, though. Harlow S. Clark - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 13:09:20 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Yahoo! At 05:46 PM 6/15/01 -0700, you wrote: >It's a satirical editorial called "West Side Stories" that deals with the >people and places on the west side of Utah Lake, where I live. Sounds interesting! I live on the west side of Provo, but I have no idea what's happening on the west side of the lake. Do you guys feel isolated out there from the Wasatch Front in general? barbara hume - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #365 ******************************