From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #439 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, August 30 2001 Volume 01 : Number 439 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 14:25:10 -0600 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: Re: [AML] Cliches in Science Fiction >DS-9 was a little more original and didn't have the logical crew member Yes, DS-9 did. Odo filled that role. He was more like Data than Spock as he explored the differences between humans and changlings and wished to be more a part of the human world. But he was clearly more logical and unemotional than his other crewmembers (although yes, especially toward the end with Kira, his emotion came out more). Annette Lyon - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:17:18 -0600 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Joseph Smith Story - ---Original Message From: MGA > > You give anecdotal examples and then leap to "majority". *That's*=20 > > what I dispute. I don't know many people who *haven't* had contact=20 > > with nutty members who will exercise what I consider to be=20 > > priestcraft. But just because the experience of hearing a nut is=20 > > possibly universal doesn't equate to *nuts* being universal. > >=20 > Forgive me for not qualifying my use of the phrase "majority=20 > of active members". I should have said "the majority of=20 > active members THAT I HAVE KNOWN SINCE JOINING THE CHURCH IN=20 > 1977." I find it hard to believe that, after belonging to a=20 > dozen or more ward across the United States, I have just=20 > happened to run into a small (for lack of a better phrase)=20 > "narrow-minded" minority of members. Are you going to suggest=20 > that MOST active members approach art with the attitudes and=20 > opinions similar to those who post emails on this sight? I=20 > think that modern Americans, in general, shy away from=20 > thinking very deeply or critically about Art. I think that=20 > many of those who profess what would be broadly labeled as=20 > "conservative religious values" tend to be suspicious of=20 > "art." The majority of active Church members THAT I HAVE KNOW=20 > OVER THE PAST 24 YEARS have fallen into this camp. I find it=20 > hard to believe that my experiences are somehow unique. In=20 > saying this I don't mean to imply that these very same=20 > members aren't more open about other matters: most of those=20 > that I know are. But when it come to art (books, movies,=20 > plays), they tend to react in ways that completely befuddle=20 > me.=20 I didn't mean to push any buttons here, Rob. I construe some frustration on your part by your use of repeated all caps in your amendment so I'll try to clearly state where I'm coming from. Personally, I think that everybody *should* be suspicious of "art". I don't feel that a suspicion of art is at all unwarranted or unusual. I think that there is a problem with people who are entirely unsuspicious of art. That said, people can be over-suspicious of art as well. The trick is to find a balance that fits the individual and the situation. This evaluation has to be a personal one and cannot be applied universally. I am personally less suspicious of art than a lot of my friends. I'll see movies they won't and I'll cut more slack than they will as I see them (as the recent discussion of Jerry McGuire showed). But that doesn't mean that they are over-suspicious any more than it means that I am not suspicious enough. You have given a number of examples of people who you think are over-suspicious. My caution is that a) you judge them rather harshly for not having your same balance (as I do when I call them nuts) and b) you generalize your experiences with them to make up a majority. Since your related experience is counter to my own, I disagree with your statement that the majority of church members would reject an accurate rendition (what a lovely word for art--rending is precisely right with its multiple connotations of reduce, purify, and concentrate) of Joseph Smith. Until such a beast exists, however, we won't know which one of us is the more accurate in our assessments. Which totally avoids the question of whether or not it would be right to reject such a portrayal on a person by person basis. I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm merely saying that I think you are based on my experience. I'm adding that you don't know how the majority of church members will react and I'll make it explicit that I don't either. To use Orson Scott Card's _Saints_ as an example, I know a number of people who didn't like the overly-Freudian portrayal of Joseph Smith, but they didn't reject it out of hand or call it evil and most people enjoyed it thoroughly. Most of these people were BYU students, but I'll bet that it'd be similar if I could find people around me who have read it. People as a rule don't think deeply or critically about *anything* that doesn't directly affect them (and often not about things that *do*). If you are saying that the majority of LDS people don't think critically about art, you are certainly correct. I think that the only thing we could honestly say that a majority of church members think deeply and critically about is the Gospel. But if you generalize that to a statement that the majority of members will reject an accurate artistic portrayal of Joseph Smith, I think you are wrong. There is a difference between thinking uncritically and rejecting. If you come up with a portrayal of Joseph Smith that requires critical thinking to enjoy, then I think you might find a majority giving it a miss. But such a requirement shows more about the artist than the audience. If your art doesn't entertain then it won't be popular no matter how good it is artistically. > For instance, a wonderful woman who I've known for=20 > several years borrowed a copy of the 1995 TNT mini-series=20 > JOSEPH starring Ben Kingsly and Lesley Anne Warren. The=20 > acting and directing were first rate. The attention to=20 > historical accuracy was amazing. More than any other Biblical=20 > film that I've ever seen, I thought it was the most faithful=20 > to scripture. I have many non-member friends (in the arts and=20 > out) who feel pretty much the same way. However, this bright,=20 > articulate, active LDS friend didn't like it. She said it=20 > just didn't seem very faithful to the scriptures. That's her=20 > opinion and it goes without saying that she is entitled to it=20 > and should stick to it. I told her that I thought it was the=20 > most faithful dramatic adaptation I've yet to see of any=20 > Biblical story; that the dramatic embellishments--needed when=20 > dramatizing a sparse text such as the Bible--were few and=20 > could be totally justified by the Biblical text itself.=20 > I was interested in understanding how, in this=20 > Sister's view, the film JOSEPH was unfaithful to the=20 > scriptures. She finally admitted that "I really couldn't=20 > think of any examples...I guess, it just didn't seem like=20 > they {Jacob, Joseph) behaved very much like prophets."=20 I haven't seen the movie, so I have no idea what my own opinion of it might be. However, I think that you need to be very careful about judging her unfit to recognize faithful art just because she disagrees with you about that movie. You disagree with her about her evaluation of the TNT special, but I'm not sure that says anything at all about how church members would receive an accurate story about Joseph Smith. > There is a tendency--a BIG TENDENCY--I believe, among many Church=20 > members to think that a prophet acts like a reserved,=20 > dignified, suit-and-tie, elderly American gentleman of the=20 > late 20th century. Of course, the facts are that the majority=20 > of prophets have not fit this stereotype...including the=20 > majority of the Church's founding prophets and apostles. And=20 > so LDS history in art has been reduced to the "sanatized"=20 > "historical revisionism" of THE WORK AND THE GLORY series.=20 > LDS audiences (it seems to > me) demand the same thing that members of other minority=20 > groups (gay, ethnic, etc.): that the art appease any doubts=20 > they have regarding their affiliation with the group. These=20 > are simply my opinions based on my own experiences and=20 > observations. ROB LAUER Well, I agree that we tend to want too much seriousness in our prophets. We *do* as a culture tend to equate "called to preach God's word" with "serious demeanor". But I think that cause and effect are a bit transposed here. I think that we've been trained by our past art and hagiographic history to expect seriousness. I think it reflects a lack of trust by the historians and artists as much as anything else. Right now, I think we have experienced two poles with hagiography on the one hand and expos=E9 on the other. I'd love to see something that is accurate without having an axe to grind. Given a choice between hagiography and expos=E9, I don't fault members for hanging out in the hagiography camp. But that doesn't necessarily mean that hagiography is all we'll accept, it's just all we've been given. I think that the reception of God's Army is proof of my opinion. We'll see if that bears up when Dutcher releases his movie about Joseph Smith. Jacob Proffitt - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:15:18 -0600 From: Gerald G Enos Subject: Re: [AML] Fw: MN News Briefs: Singles Film I wouldn't mind seeing it just because a singles ward is the reason I met my husband of nearly 11 years. Konnie Enos ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:16:39 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: Re: [AML] Used LDS Books for Sale? No more than it would be a treat to see you guys! Hope you have a great trip. Best to Darius. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "margaret young" > I needed to write Jeff anyway to thank him for some wonderful material he sent > my way. Darius Gray and I will be in San Bernardino to celebrate the > re-inactment of the Saints' trek to California. Book 2 (_Bound for Canaan_) of > our trilogy tells the story of these remarkable people--one of whom (a slave at > the time of the trek) became "the mother of Civil Rights" in California when--a > year before the Dred Scott decision, she was declared a free person because she > lived on free soil. Her master, Robert Smith, was not allowed to take her to > Texas unless she wanted to go. Quite a history! Anyway, we're in California > Oct. 24 and probably some of the 25th. It would be a MAJOR treat to see Jeff > Needle anywhere! > > Margaret Young - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:59:28 -0700 From: Jerry Tyner Subject: RE: [AML] Joseph Smith Story A friend of mine from my youth had a great response to someone saying "the brethren have said...". He would always ask - "Where is that written?" Or "Who said it and when?" Jerry Tyner - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:48:34 -0700 (PDT) From: William Morris Subject: [AML] Letters and Mormon Literature I've been reading _Tales of Genji_ for my MA exam and have been struck by the importance of letters to the narrative. Genji judges the women he wants to romance by the letters they write---and not just expression but also penmanship, the kind of paper they choose, etc. I know that I'm not remotely alone in this observation and that there's a lot of scholarship out there about Genji and letters, but rather than pursuing Genji, I began wondering about Mormon lit and letters. Okay, so there's the story in the humor issue of _Irreantum_ by Donald R. Marshall that's in epistolary form. I found the form effective because a lot of the humor (some of it bitter/sweet) was in the gaps that the reader saw as the letters went back and forth. Are there other examples in Mormon literature of either epistolary novels/short stories, or where letters play an important role in the development of the narrative? What do you all think of the epistolary novel genre? Would you be interested in reading a Mormon one? Obviously, it would be a natural form to use when writing a mission novel, but other scenarios could also be interesting. A general authority corresponding with his inactive/apostate son/daughter? A young mother who has moved with her husband to the 'mission field' (Arkansas? Maine?)writing to her sibling/parent back in Utah/Idaho? And so on. The written word is an important part of Mormon theology and history. Richard Cracroft and others have written about the rich cultural heritage to be found in the letters and diaries of the 19th century saints. What is the place of letters in Mormon literature? What could be the place of letters in Mormon fiction? Examples, ideas, likes and dislikes---I would welcome them all. I'm starting to play with the idea of using different modes of discourse in my fiction (newsclippings, diary entries, academic reports) and would love to benefit from the experience of those who have read or written this kind of stuff before. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:37:35 -0700 (PDT) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] Midway Swiss Days August 31-September 1 Once again this year list members on the Wasatch front (or elsewhere, for that matter, who can take the time to come) are invited to the Midway Swiss Days festival, held in the beautiful Heber valley located 45 miles southeast of Salt Lake. There will be lots of great food, entertainment and stuff to purchase, and yours truly will once again be singing in the chorus of the musical variety show "A Jubilant Song", held in the town hall each night at 7:00. Details for the event can be found at http://midwayswissdays.com (An interesting sidelight to Swiss Days is that much of the proceeds goes to the Midway Boosters, the non-profit organization that runs the festival and other events through the year. But a significant amount goes to the general missionary fund of the LDS church, and has since the first Swiss Days festival in 1947. I suppose there have been well-meaning suggestions to move Swiss Days from the Friday and Saturday before Labor Day to the Sunday and Monday of that weekend. But that won't happen as long as the current financial arrangements are set.) ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email alerts & NEW webcam video instant messaging with Yahoo! Messenger http://im.yahoo.com - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:08:20 -0400 From: "Tom Johnson" Subject: [AML] LDS Theology/Philosophy (was: Joseph Smith Story) > [MOD: I sense that this thread is now drifting outside the subject matter of > the List into discussions of what LDS Church doctrine are/ought to be. There's a great listserv devoted somewhat to this topic, the philosophy of theology. See pasted notes below. LDS-Phil The LDS Philosophy of Religion list. This list discusses the issues in the Philosophy of Religion and Philosophical Theology from a uniquely Mormon perspective. The list is primarily for professional philosophers and those with training in philosophy who happen to be Mormon or interested in Mormon theology. The hope is that the list will give these people an opportunity to discuss religious issues within the confines of their technical expertise. The list is not moderated, but subscription must be approved. It is a low volume list. To Subscribe: mail to with the body: subscribe LDS-PHIL your name To Unsubscribe: mail to with the body: signoff LDS-PHIL List Operator: R. Dennis Potter FAQ: http://www.nd.edu/~rpotter/ldsphil.html - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:48:47 -0400 From: "Debra L. Brown" Subject: [AML] Fw: MN News Briefs: MoTab Organist at Eccles Festival News Briefs MoTab Organist at Eccles Festival SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- Mormon Tabernacle Choir organist Richard Elliott has nothing but good to say about the 4,000-pipe Eccles Memorial Organ, installed in the Roman Catholic Cathedral of the Madeleine in Salt Lake City. Elliott, who played a recital on the organ in 1995, is on the board of the Eccles Festival, started that year, one year after the organ was installed as part of a renovation of the Cathedral. Elliott says he enjoys playing the Eccles Organ "at least as much" as the better-known organ in the Tabernacle on Temple Square, "I'm very fond of tracker, or mechanical-action, instruments; I like the feel of them," he said. "The acoustics [in the cathedral] are marvelous. There is actually more reverberation than in the Tabernacle. You sacrifice some of the clarity, but there are great effects possible and some music works better there. It has lots of color, and visually, it's very impressive." Eccles Festival Is Tuned to Listeners Who 'Hate' Organ Music Salt Lake Tribune 26Aug01 A2 http://www.sltrib.com/08262001/arts/126014.htm >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 01:53:54 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Story Jacob Proffitt wrote: > As far as it goes, in my experience, the *majority* of LDS members have > had enough experience with priestcraft to automatically discount any > reference to what "the brethren" have said--if only because "the > brethren" is such a vague term in the first place. Everyone completely ignore what Jacon says here. And by the way, the Brethren have said that LDS publishers should publish all my books, and LDS readers should buy them, read them, and love them. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:15:20 +0000 From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] Rob Lauer I love it when an author I've read appears on the list. Rob may have been posting for a while, but I didn't put him together with his plays until Scott mentioned _Digger_ yesterday. I know of two of Rob's plays, the ones that were published in Sunstone: _Digger_, Nov. 1988 (performed at BYU in 1988), and _The Beehive State_, Dec. 1989 (performed in Virginia around that time). I liked reading both. The Beehive State was about dissention within a Utah polygamous family around the time of the manefesto, and was pretty good. The "about the author" blurb said that Rob was involved with a theater group in Virginia, which performed _The Beehive State_. So, tell us more about your career, Rob. Have you continued working in the theater? Have other plays of your been produced or performed, especially ones with Mormon themes? Andrew Hall Wenatchee, WA _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 02:00:35 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Names of Churches (was: Joseph Smith Story) Annette Lyon wrote: > > "Restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." > > Okay, I'm picky. But RLDS stood for REORGANIZED, not restored. Big > difference. You missed my point. The REORGANIZED Church had a schism, and the break-off faction called itself the RESTORED Church. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 02:26:27 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Story Chris Grant wrote: > I will be satisfied if the Mormon intelligentsia uses the > same degree of discretion, kindness, and understanding, in > telling the Prophet Joseph's story as it does in telling > Brother England's. Holy moley, I wouldn't! Gene England just died. Eulogizing the life of a recently deceased person is always done with discretion, kindness, and understanding. It's the appropriate thing to do at a time like that. But a novel exploring a historical character that used the "eulogy" approach would be absolutely awful! Why it would be...it would be...The Work and the Glory! (Which has its good points, but exploring the character of Joseph Smith is NOT one of them!) - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 03:15:03 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Story Thom Duncan wrote: > You need to re-read the book. None of the POV characters are Joseph. > We only know about him what other characters around him say or see him do. > > When I dropped in on Scott during his writing of the novel, and we had > lunch at a French restaurant in Provo (now gone) he was explicit in his > conviction that it would be impossible to do a novel about Joseph Smith > from Smith's POV without making him look crazy, so that's why he made > sure that Joseph's actions were seen through the POV of other characters. The very first scene where Eliza R.--excuse me--Dinah Kirkham sees Joseph, is from his POV. Once again, Card broke one of his own rules, something he's famous for. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:03:29 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Story Okay, it's been done. OSC's Saints and Sam Taylor's Nightfall at Nauvoo. = Saints isn't about Joseph Smith, it's about a fictional female character = who sort of tangentially resembles Eliza R. Snow. Nightfall at Nauvoo, I = haven't read in awhile; anyone remember it? Eric Samuelsen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:50:52 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Eugene England A lot of people have been writing about Gene, and sharing their memories = of Gene. I would like to add to these comments, except that I find it = difficult to say very much beyond this: I loved Gene. His memorial = service was entirely excessive and completely appropriate, and the talks = given there were the first remarks in or out of the Church that I have = found inspirational in a very long time. =20 But I think it might be valuable to asssess, if we can, what he actually = meant to Mormon letters. Here is a brief and only partial list; others = could, no doubt, add to it, and I hope you will. =20 1) Gene was perhaps our greatest champion of and practitioner of the = personal essay. Of all his writings, I find myself drawn time and again = to those seamless, beautiful, eloquent essays. If there's one great = accomplishment above all others that we should remember Gene for, it's the = personal essay. 2) He founded Dialogue. 3) He was instrumental in the early days of Sunstone, and his fingerprints = are all over that essential journal. 4) He created and taught a class in Mormon literature, which opened the = eyes, hearts and minds of endless generations of students, both at BYU and = at UVSC. 5) He was an astute and unfailingly gracious critic, and a great cheerleade= r for the best work by our best writers. 6) He was one of the founders of AML. 7) He was a pretty fair country poet. 8) He was actively engaged in the New Mormon History movement, was well = known in Mormon History Association, wrote a terrific Brigham Young = biography, and was a well-informed and active historian. =20 9) He founded the nation's first academic program in Mormon Studies, at = UVSC. 10) He was an astute, well-informed and excellent critic and champion of = Mormon drama. =20 11) He remains, for me, our most important and valuable Shakespeare = critic. In fact, he might be said to have been our most valuable = practitioner of what we might call 'Mormon criticism,' which is to say = literary criticism which has LDS theology as its philosophical core. When = Arthur Henry King passed away recently, a number of you wrote about his = use of LDS theology in his own criticism. I never met Arthur Henry King; = never took a class from him, only read one book of his. I'm in no = position to say how Gene's approach may have meshed with Professor = King's, or how they may have differed. But I think it's interesting to = consider possible connections between these two men. I do know that = hearing Gene lecture about King Lear was an utterly life-changing = experience, both for me and for our students. =20 12) Finally, for me, Gene proved that its possible to be a believing and = active member of the Church, and still an active, engaged intellectual, = liberal, feminist and new historicist. I think it unlikely that I would = be a member of the Church today without Gene's example. I think it very = unlikely that I would be teaching at BYU had it not been for Gene's = enthusiastic support at one particular point. I think it's absolutely = impossible that I would be writing plays today without Gene's encouragement= . =20 There are many of you on the List who knew him better than I did, and of = course, many who have accomplished more. I was up all night last night, = assessing my life, reviewing my accomplishments, repenting and thinking of = all the ways I have wasted my earthly probation. I began such a process = because I began to compare my own life to Gene's, and found it wanting. = Gene is, very simply, my hero. And I think this will be my last post for = awhile; I think I'd better lurk for awhile. I got some catching up to do. Eric Samuelsen - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:10:50 -0600 From: margaret young Subject: [AML] Re: Eugene England (was: Joseph Smith Story) I'm wondering about the implication of the word "discretion" in Chris Grant's post. Gene England himself, in order to preserve the peace, insisted that he was simply retiring. He'd say it with a smile. He never mentioned that the retirement was not what he wanted and that it was forced. That was his use of discretion. To me, it is consistent with who Gene was, consistent with his book _Making Peace_. He was a peacemaker. Yet on other occasions, he spoke boldly--usually when it was someone else's reputation at stake, or justice itself at stake. One of the themes of Gene's funeral was his love for the Church, its leaders, and the Lord. Everyone who knew Gene knew he had a strong testimony. Yet if someone were to write a biography of Gene England, they would surely have to include his moments of frustration with the institutional Church. The Gene England I knew never hesitated to speak boldly--most often for those who couldn't speak for themselves. He would not use that same boldness in protecting himself, but he was absolutely bold. And he had a sweet, almost naive faith that others would do the right thing. That particular faith was tried to the limit, I'm afraid. I get very nervous about the suggestion that we use "discretion" in telling any of the Church leaders' stories. Couldn't that lead to more iconizing and conscious censorship? I think the key is not "discretion" (and what could conceiveably be justified by that), but balance. Brigham Young, for example, said some appalling things about blacks. They were exactly what his fellow-Americans believed, but in today's world, we recognize the words as utterly appalling (and anti-Mormon sources use them everywhere in their materials). On the other hand, Brigham attempted to purchase slaves in order to free them. He told a little white lie to prevent Green Flake from being sold away. Green said that Brigham always listened to him and "honored what he had to say." I think it would be unfair to show only one side of Brother Brigham in this issue. I would be terribly disappointed in a book that told all the great things he did for Utah's slave population without mentioning that it was he who declared Utah a slave territory and pronounced all Blacks as inferior and cursed. I know that Gene England would not want to be put on a pedastol. I can't imagine anyone would. I know President HInckley has said that one great challenge he faces is people idealizing him. I would hope that we would tell Joseph Smith's story rather like Donna Hill did--truthfully, compassionately, and without an agenda to either exalt or damn. Chris Grant wrote: > It has been fascinating to read the threads on Eugene England > and Joseph Smith in parallel, and to compare how the Mormon > intellectual community tells the story of one of its own to > the way it says the story of a Church leader should be told. > I will be satisfied if the Mormon intelligentsia uses the > same degree of discretion, kindness, and understanding, in > telling the Prophet Joseph's story as it does in telling > Brother England's. > > Chris Grant > grant@math.byu.edu > > - > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:59:58 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: [AML] Priestcraft (was: Joseph Smith Story) At 12:13 PM 8/28/01 -0600, you wrote: >While I'm at it, I should probably define my use of the term >"priestcraft". Priestcraft is a peculiarly LDS sin. The phenomenon >involves members assuming more authority than they've been given and >buttressing that authority with often vague calls to authority. I'd thought of the term as referring to any false claims to divine authority. People like Jim Jones and that fellow in Waco and What's - -his-name Bakker exercise priestcraft. They tell people stuff, tell them it came from God, and then use their gullible followers for their own ends. Barbara R. Hume barbara@techvoice.com (801) 765-4900 - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:08:38 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Joseph Smith Story At 01:30 PM 8/28/01 -0600, you wrote: >The problem with presenting Joseph's polygamy lies not with the subject but >with modern audiences' ideas about sex, romantic love, etc. I firmly believe >that one's reaction to polygamy reveals far more about one's notions of the >sex act itself as either inherently good, inherently evil, amoral, etc. I was thinking along these lines just before I read this post. I was thinking about the way Card portrayed the plural wife thing in Saints, and I was thinking that no matter how charismatic and attractive the prophet was the idea of sleeping with another woman's husband is totally gross, and then I was wondering if that was a modern sensibility, and then I was thinking that it is apparently not typical in our wicked and adulterous generation--and then I was thinking that it must have seemed even more horrifying in th nineteenth century. You don't have to consider the sex act inherently evil to consider it evil under certain circumstances. Barbara R. Hume barbara@techvoice.com (801) 765-4900 - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:09:54 -0700 From: "Christopher Bigelow" Subject: RE: [AML] Granite Publishing Maybe the AML should invite him to speak at the Mormon writers conference = on Nov. 3. - -----Original Message----- From: "Paris ANDERSON" =20 Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2001 12:14 PM To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com; PARISANDER@FREEPORT.COM Subject: [AML] Granite Publishing Dear Everyone, I just talked to Jeff Lambson at Granite. I asked if he had received an = =3D email I sent him about J. SCOTT BRONSON'S manuscript, "THE WHIPPING =3D BOY." He said they been trying to find him but haven't had any luck. =3D He also said he would be willing to look at other manuscripts and might = =3D even be willing to be that third alternative publisher everyone keeps =3D talking about. granitepd@aol.com That's his email address. Paris Anderson - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 09:46:49 -0600 From: Chris Grant Subject: [AML] Evangelical Christianity in LDS Art (was: Joseph Smith Story) Rob Lauer writes: [...] >I think TESTAMENT is a good example of a "touchy-feely" >"Evangelical Christian" approach to THE BOOK OF MORMON. I thought the Evangelical Christian approach to the Book of Mormon was to condemn it. ;-) Not really knowing what is meant by "touchy-feely" in this context, I consulted _The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language_, 4th edition. The first of the two definitions given is: 1. Marked by or emphasizing physical closeness and emotional openness: *became uncomfortable when the group therapy session got too touchy-feely*. _Testaments_ is touchy-feely in this sense, but so are the corresponding scriptural accounts, so I'm guessing that that's not what's being objected to. The second definition is: 2. Based on sentiment or intuition, especially to the exclusion of critical judgment: *"a book that proves the existence of the Almighty . . . without recourse to spiritual mumbo jumbo or any of that touchy-feely faith stuff"* (Adam Begley). I suppose that a case could be made that _Testaments_ is unsophisticated, that Evangelical Christians seem unsophisticated (particularly if one's impression is built largely on glimpses of televangelists obtained while channel- surfing), and that, therefore, _Testaments_ bears the mark of Evangelical Christianity. Is there a more substantial connection than that--say, one in which the unique theology of Evangelical Christianity figures? Chris Grant grant@math.byu.edu - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:25:32 -0400 From: Tony Markham Subject: [AML] An Iconography of Our Own (was: Joseph Smith Story) Chris Grant wrote: > I would be interested in > *specific* descriptions of (a) how the members of the Church > are veering towards mainstream Protestantism and away from > what President Hinckley is teaching, and (b) how these > theological deviations are manifesting themselves in art > being produced by Latter-day Saints. I'd like to respond to Chris by showing how our representational art is becoming exclusively Mormon with exclusively LDS meanings attached to images. In the September 2001 issue of the Ensign is a very nice story entitled, "Loving My Wayward Child." I liked this story for many reasons and found it to be an exemplary slice of the gospel in action. In the story, despite a mother's love and faith, her teenage daughter quits going to church, starts using alcohol and drugs, and becomes sexually active. So how does the illustrator depict this self-destructive behavior? A closed body posture turned away from her imploring mother, a sullen glare, AND multiple ear piercings. Apparently, an ear with multiple piercings is now Mormon shorthand for drinking, doping, and sleeping around. This is an important tool for writers to remember as we characterize on page, saving many words. Tony Markham - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:51:06 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: [AML] Card on Artistic Charity http://www.thewatchmen.com/ma/ma95/card.html From a talk by Orson Scott Card in 1995, about the relationship of Mormon artists with each other. "First of all, we need desperately to be non-competitive with each other, to rejoice in each other's success, to recognize that just because I don't particularly care for the works of writer X doesn't mean his work doesn't have a place in the Mormon Church. I hear artists often sneer at each other's work. "Oh, that was trash." "Oh, that was garbage." "Well, I don't understand why anybody ever bought that book." "I don't know why anybody likes that music." Well, if you don't understand it then I urge you not to write that kind of music, or not to write that kind of book. You don't understand that audience at all, do you? So write for your audience and don't begrudge them theirs." Thom Duncan - - AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature http://www.xmission.com/~aml/aml-list.htm ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #439 ******************************