From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #476 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Monday, October 8 2001 Volume 01 : Number 476 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:59:08 -0600 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] WHIPPLE, _The Giant Joshua_ - ---Original Message From: Veda Hale > Jacob remembered that Clory "was abused throughout the novel > >with no succor in sight--except the savior and the gospel which were > >supposedly all around her, but never, ever, a strength or comfort"=20 > > Mauirne did see strength and comfort all around Clory. Maybe > Jacob is right,= > that it is just too sad that Clory didn't partake of it > enough. But she did= > recognize it was there. The setting for the following quote > is when she is= > a teen in a testimony meeting and wants a testimony for herself. > =20 > >Clory "wondered about this thing called a testimony; this > divine fire for= > which men would give up family and kindred rather than > renounce. All about= > her tongues faltered, in an effort to express this gratitude > of the heart.= > 'Where much is given, much is required' -- the old, old > saying of her= > people -- housewives scooping the last cupful of flour, the > last crust of= > bread to pay dues to this church they loved. > > >"A testimony of the Gospel -- not something one could smell > or taste or= > weigh in the hands, or buy, or pick off a tree, but > something so real and= > rapturous that with it all life became a song, all death an > adventure.= > Either you had it or you didn't have it; no one seemed able > to say exactly= > how it came. All she knew was that with it, a man in rags > was stronger than= > a king. > > > >. . .The old phrases were glib upon the tongue: I know > Joseph Smith to be a= > prophet of God! But how, how did one know it? And you > couldn't say it if= > you didn't know it. . . Clory wondered again if this > dreadful lack in her= > soul would someday fester upon the surface for all men to > see; she was like= > a person born with a hand missing, or an eye. . ." (pp, 282-83) Right. She spends the entire novel asking "how can I know it" and never bothers to find out. Your examples show exactly what I'm talking about. To her a testimony is something that makes men leave their families who then continue to "pay their dues". Tithing is *not* paying dues to the church and anybody who states it like that doesn't understand the principle. For one, I have never heard of anybody being kicked out of the church for not paying tithing. Dues? The very word applied to tithing offends me. And everyone else is *glib* when saying that Joseph Smith is a prophet? How does she know that? It's an unrighteous judgement and distances her from people who can say such a thing--like me. She keeps internally posing these testimony questions and never asks them, studies them, or finds any answers to them--apparently believing that they just happen by some cosmic accident. > >Jacob said "The gospel has nothing to do with sacrificing yourself > >for the Common Good." It never occurred to me that "The > Common Good" is= > different from "The Good of God." If we are all God's > children, then he= > cares for us all and wants good for all, which sounds like > "The Common= > Good."=20 The Common Good is very different from the Good of God. For one thing, the Good of God is very individual oriented. The Common Good is not. So the Common Good may build a dam in the desert, whereas the Good of God will save the souls of those living in the desert. Not the same at all. The Common Good has men working together to build a dam. The Good of God has men leaving their homes to preach the gospel in far-off lands. The Common Good can be deduced by communal thinking and reason, but the Good of God, while it may include understanding and reason, still relies heavily on the revealed will of God. You can sacrifice someone for the Common Good--you cannot for the Good of God. Big differences. > >"Jacob also said "somebody who can live in unrelenting > misery is doing= > something wrong." I can think of those who would be hurt to > have to believe= > that. Does the abused woman and child need to ask: "It must > be something= > wrong I'm doing?" Clory loved to sing and dance and, > contrary to what Jacob= > remembers, gets plenty of chance to do it and is often very happy.=20 > > >To keep this discussion within the bounds of AML list. > Mauirne's Clory is= > like Maurine wished she were--in music, beauty, > loveablility. Do any of you= > write into your characters personality traits you wish you had? Right. She found joy in escapism, never in God. I hated the dancing bits almost more than the rest. The only joy she finds in life is in dancing, an activity that doesn't really have much to do with the gospel or elevating the common to the sublime. It makes the rest of her life that much *more* depressing. Also, I put the modifier "unrelenting" in there because I recognize full well that people live in very bad situations sometimes. My point is that God and the gospel should be *strengths* during those times. Escaping for a moment is fine and all, whether it's dance, music, or literature, but the true comfort comes from knowing God is with you and that He loves you no matter how depressing your current circumstances are. Joseph was a slave, sold into bondage by his brothers. We tend to gloss over the transition a person makes from being a favored son of a relatively wealthy land-holder to a life of slavery. Slavery wasn't nice in the 19th century, it was worse before that. Yet Joseph clung to God and found comfort with Him during all that time. Sure he rose in the slave hierarchy (remember how long it took? years), and eventually rose to positions of trust, but even when he was the lowest slave in the pecking order, he clung to God and, I hope, found comfort there. Unlike Clory. > >So, she wrote what she knew, which doesn't bring forth much > discussion,= > because we all agree you should do that, but maybe not so honestly,= > depending on how much we are willing to risk. How about > writing what we= > know and then discovering we know something else we didn't > know? I think= > that happened to Maurine and during the writing she touched > something that= > instead of naming "testimony" she called "The Great Smile." > I know she= > didn't understand why some so disliked her choice of words > here or with= > "The Grand Idea." To me "The Great Smile" isn't a substitute > for God. It= > was just the best she could come up with to describe the > "feeling" one gets= > when touching the thing described in the above quote about > testimony.= > Personally, I like it better than "A burning in the bosom."=20 There are no clues to indicate that she is talking about an internal rather than an external experience here. In fact, if I remember right (It's been almost ten years since I read the dang thing. My ability to talk in any detail at *all* is an indication of how *much* this book bothered me) the Great Smile is followed by a description of how that smile made her feel, not as synonyms, but as reaction to the external "smile". > As for "The Grand Idea". I think she didn't mean the gospel > was "just" an= > idea, but that the idea to love ones neighbor as oneself is > an idea that= > has to happen to each of us in our heart, and when it happens, it is= > certainly "Grand." She wrote about people who were > struggling to live after= > they felt that.=20 I have no recollection of the Grand Idea, so I don't know what your context here is. It sounds like you are reacting to something others have said. > As far as Maurine having Erastus say "You have to be brutal > to colonize."= > These people were dealing with a physical enviornment that > was certainly= > "brutal." Decisions had to be made by leaders that could be > said were= > "brutal," if you accept that sending people to the edges of > the wilderness= > is brutal. Those people would much rather have stayed in the > heart of Zion.= > But someone had to go to the edges.=20 The environment was brutal, sure. The people went into brutal situations, sure. But implying that you had to be a brutal person to send people into brutal situations is just wrong. Life is brutal, does that mean that God is brutal for sending us here? You don't have to be brutal to know what has to happen and do it any way. Maybe we have a difference in definition here. To me, brutal has its roots in "brute". To be brutal, that means you are acting as a brute would--someone who has no care for others, who can casually hurt them for selfish purposes of his own. I don't think that adjective applies to the early prophets and I particularly don't think the early brethren would apply it to themselves. Since that appears to be a message of _The Giant Joshua_, I disagree with the book and would just as soon that I had never read it and that it not be read by people I care about. Not that I want to prevent it from being published or read, just that my opinion is that it has little value as a book and that reading it will be a waste of time and I will share that opinion with anyone who asks me if they should read it. Jacob Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 16:19:45 -0600 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Stories about War (was: The List and the WTC) - ---Original Message From: ROY SCHMIDT > Here's one: lots of books are written about wars: The Book of > Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, the > Bible, Dean Hughes stuff, Lee Nelson, Stephen Ambrose, Hugh > Nibley, etc. AND those books sell and sell well. Why? What is > our fascination with the topic? Why is war fascinating? Good question. Why are car chases and flying martial arts so interesting to an audience? I think that the reasons can be the same, though it can be deeper, too. Death and conflict are intrinsically fascinating subjects such that even the possibility of death is exciting. Not because we are morbid, necessarily, but because death represents the very edge of our ideals. I read a book once that claimed that having ideals meant, intrinsically, that you would kill for those ideals (it was a murder mystery novel, very good one, too)--that defending ideals had no meaning unless you would kill to protect them. I'm not sure that is true, but I think that one reason conflict is so necessary to a story is because it is in conflict that we test which ideals are important, why they are, and how important they might be in juxtaposition to other important ideals. In war, you can show ideals like power, force, corruption, irony, communication, sacrifice, service, and honor in stark contrasts where your audience will be gripped automatically because those ideals now carry the weight of life and death. A man who lives a good life of service enters combat and turns his back on a companion in need in order to save himself--that's gripping and casts interesting shadows on his character, ideals, and prior service. A man who stands up to defend someone weaker than himself, putting his own life at risk for the benefit of another--that is interesting and dramatic. Romeo and Juliet aren't just star-crossed lovers, they are star crossed lovers who stand a good chance of dying for their love because their houses are at war with each other. Henry V is willing not only to kill for an insult, but to die himself should it happen that way--depicting in dramatic fashion how a man can represent a nation (and motivate a nation, or at least an army). War is the ultimate conflict and stories set in war have that advantage in telling their ideas and communicating their points with that degree of conflict (and contrast). Jacob Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 16:19:55 -0600 From: "Cathy Wilson" Subject: Re: [AML] Impact Editorial Services This is a standard sounding promotion from a hopeful editor. I personally think that everybody needs a good editor, even the left-brained types :), because you just don't see everything that needs to be fixed in your own work. I'd regard this as advertising and respond to it as such--maybe it's for you, maybe not. A good editor can make your work ring and sing; a bad one can just cost you time and money. Cathy (Gileadi) Wilson Editing Etc. 1400 West 2060 North Helper UT 84526 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 16:29:41 -0600 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] LDS Last Days Lit (was: _Left Behind_) Gerald G Enos wrote: > We may not believe in what others call the Rapture but don't we believe > that the rightous will be carried up to meet Jesus when he comes back > and isn't that to be before the wicked are "burned as stubble"? > Believe it or not that is just what the 'Rapture' really is. As a > convert I have been able to see that most Christians do believe as we do > they just don't have the full picture and we do. The Rapture as taught by my former church occurs before the coming of Christ, where those who are Christians will be removed automatically from the earth. Everyone left behind (including the Mormons) will live in a world gone haywire. None but sinners are left on the earth, to be utterly destroyed. When Christ makes his final return, the thousands of true Christians will come down to earth, then go back up to meet him as he descends. Not at all like the Mormon version of that moment. Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 16:26:43 -0600 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Impact Editorial Services I wouldn't. The reason the agency idea of taking 10% of your fees is such a good one is because it unequivocally ties the interests of the agent to the interests of the author. A fixed fee would allow an agency to make money without actually having to do any work, or at least, without actually having to show any results. You are motivated by where your money comes from. If your money comes by the hour, then you tend to work (or at least bill) extra hours. If your money comes by fixed fees, then you will try to increase your incoming fees. If your money comes by selling product, then you will sell more product. The motivations for this agency will be to sign up as many authors as possible. That's a whole lot different from being motivated to sell the author's work and actually make the author money. I'd much rather have an agency that bet their own income on the merits of my work than one that is only betting their reputation. A reputation can be made with a small percentage of your clientele (as publishers have discovered with their block-buster mentality) allowing you to ignore the majority of your those your represent. Jacob Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 16:31:42 -0600 From: "Ethan Skarstedt" Subject: RE: [AML] Fw: MN 'New Era' to Drop Fiction: BYU-Idaho Scroll 2Oct01 USUTSLC N1 D. Michael Martindale said: >The problem isn't that the church is avoiding publishing fiction itself. The problem is that the >church is doing nothing to endorse the reading of fiction at all, making >many assume by default that it discourages it. The occasional, unnoticed >statements by a handful of General Authorities is not enough. Yes. And how better to encourage it than to publish it? The trick, of course, would be to avoid turning such a publication into a propaganda mill churning out bad, committee-approved-and-edited tripe. While difficult for an "institution" to pull off, I think one led by divine inspiration from God ought to be able to accomplish it. =20 Terry L. Jeffress >The organized, business end of the Church exists to provide a=20 >consistent and unified set of procedures and explanation of=20 >doctrines. Although fiction can certainly inspire one to align=20 >oneself more closely to those doctrines, a position paper=20 >(or sermon) more clearly fills the role the Church=20 >headquarters must fill through the magazine department. I agree that _one_ of the purposes of the business end of the church is to provide a consistent and unified set of procedures and explanations of doctrines. This is also _one_ of the purposes of the 'spiritual' end of the church. (which is why GAs visit stake conferences) Because of what church leaders have said concerning reading good fiction and developing a literary tradition of our own it would seem that the 'non-business' purposes of the church, such as making people into better people, would be served admirably by encouraging such a literary tradition, our own authorities have said as much. =20 Following the dogmatically faithful line of reasoning leads me to say, 'If it were appropriate for the church to be publishing a fiction mag right now, why then it would be doing so.' Since it's not and I still believe such a forum would be of benefit to the world I suppose I ought to start one. I'm not going to do it any time soon though. I've got no extra money and not enough extra time. Perhaps there's already such a thing out there? Online perhaps? If not, and any of you would like to start such a thing, on-line or otherwise, I volunteer my services to help. I have web expertise, an English degree, editing experience and have given some thought to the e-zine concept, but as I said, lack the time and money to start one on my own. Especially since any such thing would have to be a non-profit, no-overhead kind of thing. End of ramble. - -Ethan Skarstedt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:55:03 -0600 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] Akeda Scholar Needed On Tue, 2 Oct 2001 11:59:42 -0600 "Ethan Skarstedt" writes: > I would like to attend said play, where can I go to get more > information? I will post more detailed info as the dates grow nearer. scott - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 15:16:17 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: Re: [AML] Stories about War (was: The List and the WTC) This hits on one of my points on another list. We, as humans, are inherently violent. We identify strongly with conflict and death. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:51:52 -0500 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: Re: [AML] Impact Editorial Services The kindliest phrase I can muster in response to this offer is "highly suspect." I haven't worked in fiction publishing houses, but I have worked extensively with the Chicago Manual of Style, and as an editor, for a number of years. Here are my reasons for recommending extreme suspicion with regard to this offer: * The Chicago Manual of Style is a massive compendium of technical points, few if any of which have much to do with good writing. They *do* have to do with maintaining a consistent "house style" in matters of punctuation, spelling, and the little things that most readers don't even consciously notice (such as whether you use % or spell out the word "percent"). NO PUBLISHER that I know of expects a writer to submit a manuscript that is pre-edited to these niggling standards. Indeed, almost every publishing house has their own little rules and areas where they differ from the Chicago Manual of Style, which constitute their own house style. I would fully expect that if someone did use this service, and his/her book was then accepted by a publisher, that many of the changes made by this service would be changed again to bring the manuscript into conformity with house style. For that matter, the Chicago Manual of Style is, in origin, the house style book for the University of Chicago Press. As such, it is heavily oriented toward academic writing (with, for example, two full chapters on documentation styles, and a heavy emphasis on typesetting standards and book production). If Rick's friend is writing fiction, particularly children's fiction, I doubt that much of what's in the Chicago Manual of Style would even apply. Children's writing, and particularly children's fiction, doesn't follow the same rules as academic writing! * I am therefore wonderfully surprised at this company's confident assertion that they "know the reason" for the manuscript's rejection, and that this reason was that the manuscript was not edited according to the Chicago Manual of Style. First, I think those who have worked with publishing houses will confirm that problems with market and/or basic writing skill are by far the most significant reasons for rejecting a manuscript. (Note, too, the letter-writer's attempt to get the recipient to discount anything that may have been said by the publisher about why the manuscript was rejected; after all, "Publishers...never tell the real reason for sending rejection letters." Why not, I wonder?) Second, I can't think of any publisher on the planet who would reject a manuscript that was otherwise publishable just because it needed the kind of minor stylistic editing that really is all that Chicago talks about. * This offer seems intended to play off the vanity of the recipient: there's nothing about your work that needs fundamental changes, just superficial editing. Combine that with statements such as "It's my strong recommendation that you not even consider a minor publisher" and it seems clear to me that this is nothing more than a ploy to get money out of people. * Which brings me to the real giveaway: the fact that "Whereas most agents take their fee in a percentage of your royalties, we will offer agency services for a flat fee to be negotiated and mutually agreed upon." In other words, we'll tell you your story is publishable with our editing, but we won't risk anything on our statement; instead, we'll offer to make you pay first for what any publisher who was really interested in your work would expect to do simply as part of the book preparation process, and then pay again for representing your work to publishers. Reputable agents adhere to a structure that gives them an incentive to sell your work; this agency, instead, focuses entirely on getting money from the authors, with no risk on their part. Please note, by the way, that I'm not criticizing the idea of editing services in general. As we've discussed before on AML-List, a good editor can make a world of difference with a manuscript. But the way this letter is written makes me suspect it would be better to have nothing to do with this particular service. Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not the List jlangfor@pressenter.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:13:37 -0600 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: Re: [AML] Impact Editorial Services I would have several reservations about using any such service. After stating the followng:=20 > I have mentioned in the past, your book has substantial publishable > merit. All it needs is to be edited according to The Chicago Manual > of Style. As you know, this is the standard that all major > publishers go by these days and, the fact is, your book merits > publication by a major publisher. It=92s my strong recommendation that > you not even consider a minor publisher. This section should set off major alarm bells: > Fees for agency services will be handled in a different way than > most literary agents do. Whereas most agents take their fee in a > percentage of your royalties, we will offer agency services for a > flat fee to be negotiated and mutually agreed upon. You should always follow the rule of thumb that money should flow toward rather than away from the writer. If the agent thinks so highly of the book, then why does he still want money up front from the writer to shop the book around. Agents -- at least reputable ones - -- get paid a percentage of the author's advance and royalties. Deviation from this practice usually indicates a plot to extract money from the writer. Also, not all publishing houses use _Chicago_ as their style guide. Sure a lot do, but not all. If the book only has style problems, then let the publishing house's copyeditors make the necessary edits to have the work conform to the house style. It sounds to me like Impact wants to milk more money from the writer by charging an editing fee to prepare the manuscript in addition to the fee they want to charge for acting as an agent. And the letter goes on with the sales pitch offering to provide the needed services. This guy also said that his company has just started to offer agent services, so he probably doesn't really have any contacts in the publishing industry, doesn't have a relationship with any editors, and doesn't have an establish name in the industry. In essence, a manuscript represented by an unknow agent has about the same level of importance as a manuscript sent in directly by the author. You get no improved chances with an untried agent, just like you have really bad chances as an unpublished author. Why do you think authors give up 10 to 20 percent of their income to an agent? Because the agent has established a reputation and relationships that the author does not have and improves the chances of the author's success. =20 The publishing industry looks down on services like those mentioned in this letter. If Mr. Brady really does run an author-bilking service, the news about him has probably already spread to many of the major editors. You actually stand less of a chance of getting published by having him represent you, than you would sending in an unsolicited manuscript. Here's another read flag: > larrygbrady@hotmail.com What reputable agent really uses a free email service? Sure, I sometimes use a free email service for some of my personal e-mail, but when I send mail from work I use my work address (terryj@censoft.com). You can set up a website, complete with domain name registration and mail processing, for about $50 followed by a residual monthly fee of about $25. For that reasonable amount, you get someone to your web site and process your mail. If this guy does not make enough money from his business to at least have his own domain name and web site, you probably don't want to do business with him. - --=20 Terry Jeffress | What senses do we lack that we cannot see | another world all around us? AML Webmaster and | -- Frank Herbert AML-List Review Archivist | - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 18:07:45 -0600 From: Scott and Marny Parkin Subject: Re: [AML] Impact Editorial Services Sounds like a standard book doctor service. I have avoided such groups; they usually ask for money up front and do no more work than you could do yourself in a few minutes a day. If the book is sellable, the purchasing editor will edit it according to their own style anyway. It's paying for work that a publisher will do as part of their standard process. Without making any statements about this specific group, I generally find these services to be a waste of good money that capitalize on the frustration of the unpublished with good sounding promises that amount to nothing in the end. Just my opinion. Scott Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 20:14:45 EDT From: LISTStsutsui@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Lit Class for Enrichment Night Let's open up, and walk our talk: We are writers. It is not subversive to talk about excellent literature, not just possibly excellent literature from our own people. Remember the series of books from which we older sisters were taught in Relief Society; Out of the Best Books. I didn't treasure them at the time, but took the concept for granted. Then I married a man who nagged at me because I didn't read all the church 'literature' before beginning to 'waste my time' reading other writings. I gradually became introduced to the abhorrent concept of cramming truths into niches, even if it meant that the truths had to be trimmed. Marie Tsutsui - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 02:41:58 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Impact Editorial Services Sharlee Glenn wrote: > > Children's book writer, Rick Walton, asked me to forward this to the > AML-list. An acquaintance of his received this letter, and Rick is > interested in your responses to it and, specifically, to the services > offered therein. I wouldn't hire a flat-fee agent. What's his incentive to sell your book? - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 20:17:32 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: [AML] CHANDLER & CHANDLER, _The Gun of Joseph Smith_ (Review) Review ====== Roy E. Chandler and Katherine R. Chandler, "The Gun of Joseph Smith" 1987, Deseret Book Hardback, 108 pages, $7.95 Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle "The Gun of Joseph Smith" is a slight, and quickly told, tale of a young family making their way west in the year 1850. Mark and Rebecca Morgan, and their son Tucker, meet up with Tim Selman in Nauvoo. Tim, while cleaning out the Prophet's residence after the Saints' departure west, discovers hidden away a fine rifle. He wonders if this might be Joseph Smith's gun. Thinking it might be, he sets it aside, waiting for the right person to take charge of it. Taking a liking to Tucker, Tim gives him the rifle. The Morgans are not Mormon, but the gun itself holds much intrigue for all of them. Before departing Nauvoo, Tim gives Mark Morgan a copy of the Book of Mormon to read during the journey. During their journey, the Morgans meet up with band of Mormons. They are told the story of Joseph Smith's gun; one of the elders prophesies that that gun would one day save young Tucker's life. This prophecy would come true later in the book. During much of their journey, they are accompanied by a rough but likable named Grant Holloway. He, like Tim Selman, takes a liking to Tucker, and is fascinated by the story of Joseph Smith's gun. Ultimately the family decides to settle in Salt Lake with the Saints, and are finally baptized. Holloway returns later in the story and, like the Morgans, is baptized in Salt Lake City. As you can tell from the size of the book, this was a very quick read. In fact, while reading it, I was reminded of the days when I read the Readers Digest Condensed Books. Remember them? You were able to say you read a book, but you had far fewer words to contend with. Later, you might wonder how you got from point A to point B so quickly, but then you remember that details were left out in order to make the book shorter. With this book, I felt as if some things were left out. Characters were not fully developed; plot lines moved unevenly and predictably. I wished I'd learned more about the people -- their desires, how they interacted, their doubts and their fears. The book hits a strange note throughout. The gun, thought to be Joseph's but not demonstrably so, becomes something of a talisman, a good-luck charm. Such oddities have been with us forever -- from the relic-bones of the early church saints, to the lucky rabbit's foot -- but you don't hear much about them in Mormonism. The last book I remember reading that focused so much on an object is "Brigham's Bees," a volume I've lost track of. A dandy mystery, if I remember correctly. Mormons generally keep clear of such neo-idolatry, making "The Gun of Joseph SMith" odder than most. Many here will remember the "Faith Promoting" books written by early writers. The stories were upbeat and positive, the story lines fairly simple, the message intended to instill loyalty to God and to the Church. "The Gun of Joseph Smith" is just such a book. When considered as an entry into this genre of writing, it fits well. The question remains as to whether this kind of writing will be appealing to this generation of readers. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 07:22:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Colin Douglas Subject: Re: [AML] Representing the Spirit (was: WHIPPLE, _The Giant Joshua_) You might want to give the late Clinton Larson some attention in connection with this. He argued that the key to representing the Spirit was style and that the ideal Mormon form was poetic drama. He considered his poem "A Letter from Israel Whiton" (anthologized in Cracroft and Lambert, _A Believing People: Literature of the Latter-day Saints_) a successful experiment in representing the Spirit. He found a defense of his position in Wylie Sypher, _Three Stages of Renaissance Style_. - --- William Morris wrote: - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 10:49:46 -0400 From: "robert lauer" Subject: RE: [AML] Fw: MN 'New Era' to Drop Fiction I completely agree with Eric. The fiction in Church magazines wasn't very good, so I, for one, won't miss it. WE need to be the ones creating the art, and WE need to get it out there IN THE WORLD. If we expect the Church to nurture the arts (which isn't the Church's mission), then all we will create is an isolated community where we'll be "preachin' to the choir." On top of that, we would probably end up grumbling about how "the world ignores LDS art" or doesn't take it seriously enough. And why should the world take our art seriously if we are reluctant to put it "out there" in the world for the world to see. We need to stop hiding our light under the apron of the Church or a handlful of small Utah-based companies. The Gospel is universal. Any art that it inspires will be of universal appeal. If we're struggling with this--if this seems inconcievable to us, then perhaps we'd better re-examin either our approach to art, to the Gospel or both. ROB LAUER - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 10:56:05 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] LDS Last Days Lit (was: _Left Behind_) At 10:25 AM 10/5/01 -0600, you wrote: >I was referring to the doctrinal content of the Left Behind series. That's the >part that, for me, would be a waste of time. As a student of LDS End Times >teachings, I have to say that by comparison the Born-Again teachings are a >major >yawn. -- Thom What are your favorite sources for LDS end times teachings? I'm thinking in terms of resources a writer might use in developing fiction set in those still-to-come times. barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 11:06:17 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] LDS Last Days Lit (was: _Left Behind_) At 10:25 AM 10/5/01 -0600, you wrote: >We may not believe in what others call the Rapture but don't we believe >that the rightous will be carried up to meet Jesus when he comes back >and isn't that to be before the wicked are "burned as stubble"? >Believe it or not that is just what the 'Rapture' really is. As a >convert I have been able to see that most Christians do believe as we do >they just don't have the full picture and we do. Here's where the Left Behind series made me start thinking--I had always thought that the righteous would be carried up--I assumed that mean translated--as you say "just before" the wicked are burned. In the Left Behind books, there are seven years between the two events. That got me started looking in the scriptures to try to figure out where they got that, and it made me realize that I couldn't pin down the source of my own belief. I have a vague notion that there's a passage in Romans-- When I started reading the Old Testament scriptures that the writers base their timeline on, I did not find what they did. In fact, I couldn't figure it out at all. That's why I'm looking for reliable sources of information. Has anyone read the books mentioned in Debra's posts about apocalyptic literature? I think I should try Linda Adams' book to see how her scenario feels--but I want some good commentary. I think I have the Doctrinal New Testament Commentary somewhere in my disorganized home office. The point is that you can't write fiction dealing with these events without a pretty solid notion of what you think might happen. barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 12:57:19 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Impact Editorial Services >As I have mentioned in the past, your book has substantial publishable merit. > > All it needs is to be edited according to The Chicago Manual of Style. I can't believe that a book needing only an edit for mechanics but otherwise worthy of publication will be automatically rejected. A publishing house would either edit themselves or request the writer get it done, but he'd have to be pretty bad with mechanics to need to hire these people to do it, and even then there's no guarantee. I think it's a matter of someone trying to get money out of a writer in the guise of helping him. I've become rather cynical about publishing--and I've noticed that several venues set up supposedly to help writers do a lot more marketing of stuff to writers than helping writers themselves make money. If I'm wrong about this outfit, that's good, but-- barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #476 ******************************