From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #497 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Monday, October 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 497 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:41:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] ROMANOWSKI, _Eyes Wide Open_ (Review) EYES WIDE OPEN: LOOKING FOR GOD IN POPULAR CULTURE by William D. Romanowski; 171 pp.; Brazos Press, 2001; $12.99 Reviewed by R.W. Rasband The evangelical scholar Mark Noll once wrote a book titled "The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind", in which he wrote: "The scandal of the evangelical mind is: there isn't one." He meant that evangelical Christians in the 20th century had walled themselves off from the larger world, adopted a bunker mentality and abandoned their analytical skills, opting instead for an oversimplified condemnation of all modernity. William D. Romanowski, a professor at Calvin College, wants to change this. In his book "Eyes Wide Open" (the title is a deliberate play on words with the title of Stanley Kubrick's last film) he tells evangelicals to engage with American popular culture: to find the good in movies, TV, and music. He has an uphill battle; one chapter recounts the backlash the singer Amy Grant suffered among the faithful when she achieved success in the "secular" market. Romanowski attempts to give his readers the tools to make informed artistic distinctions. One appendix is a lengthy list of questions that you can use to "interrogate" a work in order to discover what it is really saying. Another appendix is an essay is on the recent film "Titanic", which apparently caused as much consternation among evangelicals as it did among Latter-day Saints. He says what he likes about the film and what he dislikes, instead of throwing the whole thing out or obsessively focusing on one semi-nude scene. Some of Romanowski's ideas don't fit with LDS thinking, of course. He believes a Biblically correct art would dismiss "the American myth of self-reliance" as embodied by John Wayne, and instead emphasize the helplessness of people and their utter reliance on God. Of course, the LDS view is that we should be "anxiously engaged" in many things and we can bring forth righteousness by what we do. But this book is interesting because the author actually *appreciates* Bruce Springsteen, "ER", and even "Pulp Fiction" (a religious parable disguised as film noir.) I can't think of an equivalent book by an LDS author. Many of us seem to be adopting the bunker mentality of shutting ourselves off from popular culture altogether. Ambiguous advice like "avoid unwholesomeness" or rigid guidelines like "avoid all R-Rated movies" are the norm. (I heard someone once say, in all seriousness, "Don't watch anything that you couldn't watch along with your mother." The next step is probably, don't *do* anything you couldn't do in front of your mother, which may put some cramps on your married life:-) The key word here seems to be: AVOID. And that's a shame, because Latter-day Saints have historically been encouraged to participate in the arts. Brigham Young scandalized contemporaries by dancing, when Protestants strictly forbid it. And there is Pioneer Memorial Theater at the University of Utah (the successor to the old Salt Lake Theater founded by Brigham), and the Pardoe Theater at Brigham Young University. We have a rich tradition that we should cherish. I would really like to read an LDS version of this book; if I were a smarter guy I would write it myself. Maybe some of you AML-Lister's should consider it. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 09:53:13 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Dark Muse in Literature At 11:50 PM 10/26/01, you wrote: >I think a retelling of the >Abinadi story with him escaping death by fire is both a valid story and a >story that should be told. As is the story where Abinadi *is* burned by >fire. As is the story where he burns by fire and no one is touched by it; no >Alma has his heart softened by the terrible injustice of it; the wicked >society continues to prosper and grow in influence and power and wealth. As >is the story where he burns but does not die, where he lives and suffers >terrible pain as the only earthly reward for his righteousness. I think I've found the point where Parkin and I agree. To me, the *context* of this story is what is relevant. God is in this story. The fact that Noah had Abinadi killed does not mean that Noah was the winner and Abinadi the loser. Noah and his priests could not kill the prophet until he had fulfilled his mission--after that, he himself didn't care that much what happened to him. He'd done his job, and would receive his reward. The fact that the heart of one priest was touched, and that Alma eventually brought many people to Christ, made the event well worth the pain of death by fire (I can say this easily because it didn't happen to me). Even had Alma not made the choice he did, Abinadi had still done his duty. Noah eventually got the earthly reward his manner of life earned him. Those evil men had received the opportunity to accept the truth, and they eventually are recipients of the eternal reward they earned, since they turned their backs on it. (Okay, I was a bit miffed about the ones who escaped and stole the women--but they're long dead now, long past the enjoyment of their earthly gains.) Wow, that was quite a ramble, wasn't it? Let me try to make a coherent point. I find that what I want in a story is JUSTICE. In real life, we often don't see the justice work itself out. The sun shines and the rain falls on both the good and the evil. But eventually, justice will prevail, even if it doesn't happen until the next world. That concept is something that a work of LDS fiction must have to satisfy me. I tend to go a bit further in that I prefer a work of fiction, which is an art form under the author's control rather than real life which does as it will, to demonstrate justice. That doesn't mean that nothing bad should happen in the story---goodness knows I've done awful things to my characters--but by the end of the story, I must see the implementation or the inevitability of justice. None of this whining, nihilistic, existential, he made a terrible sacrifice and it was all for nothing stuff. If that means I'm a Fluffian, well, so be it. I believe so strongly that God is in control and will see that justice prevails (eventually) that a story implying something else does not work for me. In other words, darkness certainly has a place in fiction--I just don't think it should be there solely for its own sake. Barbara R. Hume Provo, Utah - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:45:01 -0600 From: Terry L Jeffress Subject: [AML] Brady UDALL, _The Miracle Life of Edgar Mint_ (Review) TITLE: The Miracle Life of Edgar Mint AUTHOR: Brady Udall PUBLISHER: W. W. Norton, 4 June 2001 ISBN: 0-393-02036-3 HARDCOVER: 438 pages If you met Edgar Mint in real life, you probably could not prevent yourself from saying, "Oh, poor Edgar." Edgar's life sucks. His mother Gloria, an Apache on a reservation in Arizona, didn't intend to get pregnant at nineteen. His father -- a white, wanna-be cowboy -- ran hard and fast as soon as he heard about the pregnancy. Gloria turns to beer to console her grief and stays drunk the rest of her life. Many authors have used just such a background to tell rising-from-the-ashes-of-the- reservation stories, but Brady Udall adds an extra twist to Edgar's life: a Mailman runs over seven-year-old Edgar's head. Seeing his his crushed head, everone gives up on Edgar. Before the ambulance even arrives, Edgar's grandmother begins to mourn. Edgar's mother never even comes out of the house, and Edgar dies in the reservation ambulance. The emengency room crew doesn't even attempt to revive him, but a young doctor, Barry Pinkley, fresh out of medical school, makes the attempt and resussitates Edgar. Edgar spends three months in a coma, gradually wakes up, and spends the next year rewovering in the hospital. Edgar has a lumpy head and occasional seizures, but generally has no other health problems. In the hospital, Edgar reads voraciously, but he can never seem to get enough fine motor control to write. Finally, Edgar's roommate Art suggests giving Edgar a typewriter, and Edgar takes off filling pages and pages with words, random clacking, thoughts, and transcriptions of graffitti. (By age 13, Edgar types over 11,000 pages, and he keeps them all.) Edgar cannot remember anything from before the accident, so most of his formative experiences occur in the hospital. He forms relationships with many of the hospital staff, but he chooses Art as a father figure. Art looks out for Edgar and serves as the voice of reason against the beurocratic staff. After waking up, Edgar often falls out of bed, and the staff pus Edgar in restraints. Art, in severe pain from a serious car accident, gets up, removes the restraints, and arranges pillows around Edgar. Edgar feels so happy at the hospital that later he often tries to regain the feeling of acceptance and love he felt there. As Edgar achieves some level of happiness, outside forces always change his situation, usually in the form of Dr. Pinkley. Barry Pinkley lost his medical license because he disregarded hospital policy when he revived Edgar, but Barry feels a responsibility to give Edgar a happy life. Barry sneaks into Edgar's hospital room and tells Edgar of a plan to sneak him out of the hospital. At the same time, a social worker has arranged for Edgar's Uncle Julius to take custody of Edgar. The night Barry shows up to take Edgar away, Art attacks Barry and makes enough noise that Barry has to flee before the hospital staff can arrive to investigate. Both Edgar and Art get released from the hospital, and the state sends Edgar to the Willie Sherman boarding school, where Edgar's uncle works as a janitor. Almost nothing goes well for Edgar at Willie Sherman. He gets beat up regularly and makes almost no friends. He finds a routine that keeps him out of the worst trouble and eventually finds some hope by joining the Mormon church. Edgar receives a blessing from the Mormon missionaries and feels the power of God flow through him. After this blessing, Edgar no longer sees the ghosts that have haunted him since he recovered from his coma. Edgar prays to learn his purpose in life, and he receives an answer: find the mailman and let him know you lived. Edgar also learns the Mormon's have an Indian placement program that sends Native American children to live with foster families, and Barry, turned drug dealer, shows up with his promises to take Edgar away to a better place. Edgar chooses not to go with Barry, and the Mormon church places Edgar with a family in rural southern Utah. The Madsens have some marital problems caused by the infant death of their third child, but Edgar feels that he has finally found a happy home -- until Barry shows up disguised as a Mormon missionary. Edgar starts to believe that he lives a cursed life -- that he brings destruction to anyone who comes within his circle acquaintences. His, mother and grandmother die; his closest friends at Willie Sherman die or get sent to prison, and the Madsens' marriage begins to break up. Edgar feels that he must leave the Madsens, to save the people that he has come to love. Although Edgar's life seems bleak, Udall avoids generating a black dispair that many modern Native American narratives produce. Edgar always maintaints a level of hope. Miracles happen in Edgar's life on a regular basis, and he seems to hold out hope for the miracle that will not only save his life, but give him lasting happiness. Although we see the despair in Edgar's life, we get pleasure from Udall's masterful descriptive abilities. If I were to drive along some narrow Arizona highway, I believe I could recognize the Willie Sherman school. Udall's descriptions go beyond the visual. You can feel the dusty desert grit surrounding the school, smell the occasional rain, and hear the chaos of the school playground. Often, Udall communicates sounds and smells by converting them into tactile sensations. His descriptions also carefully create the appropriate moods. This extract describes the school boys coming into the barn where one of the students has just committed suicide. Inside the stable was black as a pit, and though it had not been used in fifty years, it still smelled of horse manure and rotted leather and hay. Narrow blades of moonlight knifed through the cracks and knotholes of the old wooden planks. Clumped together now we were quite a crowd -- seventy or eighty boys -- and we entered that dark space like pilgrims into a cathedral: shoulder to shoulder and so careful and quiet as to be reverent. The only sounds were our feet shuffling in the thick straw and the collective rasp of our breathing. When Harris Neal struck a match we all flinched as if a grenade had gone off. He kicked apart a length of rotten board and lit one of the splinters, which had a thick knot at one end. The pitch in the knot sizzled and popped as the flame hissed brighter, enough to light this end of the stables with a pale orange glow. The rope from which Sterling had hung himself was frayed at the end where somebody had cut it, about seven feet above the ground. . . . The rope went all the way up into the darkness of the rafters, tied to one of the rough-cut crossbeams. It swayed the tiniest bit, almost imperceptibly, its shodow snaking over our faces. It had been there as long as anyone could remember. All of us, even Sterling, had swung on it before, grabbed the knot and jumped from one of the supports above the door, holding tight against the pull of gravity, flying for a moment, arching out toward the opposite wall and back again. (180) Over four hundred pages of vivid description this evocative, and powerful -- conjuring the visual images, the sounds, the smells, and the mood of the situaitons that make up Edgar's miracle life. Like a game show barker, I have to say, "And that's not all." Edgar has some really weird habits and makes some strange decisions. Edgar keeps a urinal deoderizing puck as a charm against ghosts. He wants to make a bus trip to visit a friend from the Willie Sherman school, but instead of asking the Madsens for the money he steals the money, thinking that if he shows any connections to his old life that they will not want him anymore. To an outsider, Edgar's begavior would appear completely odd, but in Udall's hands, Edgar's crazy adolescent and teenage decisions make perfect sense. You identify with Edgar because you remember some of those twisted lines of childish reasoning and odd behaviors you made as child (some of which you probobly still follow today). Just so you don't think that Udall has written the perfect novel that he can never top, I do have to tell you a couple of problems. Every so often, Udall will go wild with similes to the point of distraction: -- the road shone like the bottom of a greased skillet -- his arms making tiny jerking movements as if pulled by wires -- a cosmic hiss, like the sound of solar storms brought to earth on radio waves -- [his] head wavered like the needle on a comass -- I hugged the enormus steering wheel like it was a life preserver All these from a single page (374) of Udall's narrative. Fortunately, Udall doesn't succumb to the Steven R. Donaldson simile disease too often. Udall also switches between a first and third person narrative. In one paragraph, Edgar does the talking ("I went to the bedroom"), and in the next a narrator takes over ("Edgar went to the bedroom"). You always know that Edgar narrates the third person sections, but I could never figure out any reasoning for switching narrative modes. Perhaps Udall wanted us to keep in mind that Edgar the narrator has changed significantly from Edgar the protagonist. Every time Udall made the narrative switch, I tried to figure out his reason for choose that narrative mode, and I could never find a compelling reason -- just something that took me out of the story for a few minutes while I reread a paragraph or two. I think almost everyone would enjoy reading _The Miracle Life of Edgar Mint_. But one word of caution: if you generally read fluff you should know that _Edgar Mint_ contains graphic violence, child abuse, gore, strong language, nudity, sexual acts, forced consumption of fecal material, and drug use. All these appar within the appropriate context of the story, but they may offend some sensitive readers. - -- Terry Jeffress | Never trust the artist. Trust the tale. | -- D. H. Lawrence AML Webmaster and | AML-List Review Archivist | - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 13:39:58 -0600 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: Re: [AML] Cedar Fort Publishing "I think filling in where Bookcraft left off--if Covenant is second we might be third." I've been wondering about the ability of a publisher to get even CLOSE to the size and clout as Deseret Book and Covenant. After all, both of those publishers own their own stores (DB and Seagull), so they can devote more marketing dollars and shelf space to their own titles. I think Covenant/Seagull is particularly effective of late, because not everyone realizes that they are the same company (so many people might not realize that Seagull isn't just promoting best sellers in their fliers, that they are promoting their own titles). So how can a third publisher create a significant presence if it doesn't have a string of stores to sell the product effectively? Annette Lyon - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:00:12 -0600 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: [AML] God in Fiction (was: Good v. Evil Stories) On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:10:59 -0600 Barbara Hume writes: > Those stories that completely leave out the personality > of God feel very empty to me, even if there is a "figure" who > supposedly represents him or his purpose. This is what I have come to find a bit disconcerting in Scott Card's works. For some time I have thought that someone should write a paper on this subject. If I could make my brain work the way Scott Parkin's does (or William Morris or Eric Samuelsen and several others) I'd do it myself, but I can't. All I can do is point out the (perceived) problem. Here's the question: Why does Satan get a "face" in Scott's books if God does not? In the Alvin Maker series Satan is embodied as a priest, an overseer and I can't remember what else. But the point is he appears to his servants in some kind of physical form, whereas God never does. In the Homecoming series it is obvious that the Keeper of Earth is God but even at the end of the series the Keeper never appears, or if it does, I can't remember it happening. I do remember going back to read the end to see if I could determine that I am wrong on this point. My recollection is that I may have found out that I WAS wrong, but now, again, I can't remember meeting the Keeper in that series. Shouldn't that be an unforgettable experience? In _Stone Tables_ Satan appears to Moses with a distinctive form complete with Industrial Light and Magic SFX, but God's only appearence is merely an amorphous facial afterimage. This in spite of the fact that in his preface Scott states that this book takes an unashamedly LDS worldview. Well, in that worldview God has a body that appears as the body of any other man with arms and legs and head and hands and a real face. Now, Scott does not strike me as one to by shy about doing anything that he thinks is right to do even if it will offend ninety-nine per cent of the population. So, why the shyness here? What's wrong with giving God a face? I'm just about to start rehearsals for a play in which I have Christ represented by an actual human being and he speaks in sentences not gleaned from the canon. One actress who was considering the part of Christ's mother wanted to know why I felt I could do that if the Church never would? (Remember the point I brought up last year in my report of "Savior of the World?" People will point at the Church productions and consider them remplates for my own work.) My answer to her was this: The Church CAN'T do that. If they do, many of the ... how do I say this? ... undereducated members of the church will consider those theatrical (or literary, or musical) utterances to be new additions to the canon. The church simply cannot take that risk. I can. I SHOULD. I feel it is part of my "raison d'etre." I mean, how do I let my audience know what I think about God if I don't give God a voice in my work? Like you, Barbara, I miss the presence of God in most LDS literary works. I think His influence should saturate our work. Sometimes blatantly, at other times more subtly -- behind the scenes as it were -- but still pervasive. I almost never see it. J. Scott Bronson -- Member of Playwrights Circle - ------------------------------------------------------------------ "The sun, with all those planets revolving around it and dependent upon it, can still ripen a bunch of grapes as if it had nothing else in the universe to do." Galileo - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:31:43 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Patriotic Music (comp) [MOD: Apologies for not sending off this compilation post, which was created and then lost sometime last week.] >From scottparkin@earthlink.net Fri Oct 19 12:13:48 2001 David Hansen wrote: >Is "Deutchland, Deutchland Uber Alis" (sp?) in the german? "Alles," and I think the song is illegal in Germany (not just unadopted, but actually illegal to sing in public). It hasn't been the German national anthem since the end of WWII; the allied powers thought the song too exclusive to be allowed to remain. Which certainly underscores the power of both a tune and a text as a tool of nationalistic thought. So I guess literature does have power after all. I don't recall any nationalistic songs in the German hymnbook, though I may very well be wrong. Scott Parkin - --------------------------------------- >From lajackson@juno.com Fri Oct 19 20:22:34 2001 Our son, currently serving a mission in England, was surprised, but pleased, that on September 16th, the members of the ward he and his companion attended stood and sang "The Star-Spangled Banner." I was very surprised to read about it in his letter home. The Hymnbook (p. 381) says that a few patriotic songs have been included in the hymnbook; with priesthood approval, local national anthems may be added. Members may stand for national anthems in church meetings according to local custom and priesthood direction. The French don't usually sing their national anthem, "La Marseillaise," in sacrament meeting, because it talks about revolution and blood. The Belgian National Hymn is much nicer. But I really like "O Canada." And I'm not even Canadian. Larry Jackson - ---------------------------------------- >From dmichael@wwno.com Sat Oct 20 01:39:01 2001 David Hansen wrote: > Is "Deutchland, Deutchland Uber Alis" (sp?) in the german? The Germans no longer sing the first verse of their anthem, the one with "Deutschland ueber alles." They sing the third verse, "Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit/Fuer das deutsche Vaterland," which I would translate (staying true to the meter of the song), "Justice, unity, and freedom/For the German Fatherland." I don't recall if it's in the hymnbook, though. D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com - ---------------------------------------- >From hvozdany@hotmail.com Sat Oct 20 11:11:53 2001 Is "Deutchland, Deutchland Uber Alis" (sp?) in the german? Ah, but most Germans are of the opinion that national anthems in hymnbooks is practically a declaration of intent to take over the world. I don't think they mind at all that theirs is left out. Just a little too much parading around with flags and soldiers and national anthems in the past 50 years for their comfort... (However, the tune of "Deutschland, Deutschland ueber Alles" is in OUR hymnal--page 46.) Rose Green - ------------------------------------------- >From iaw2@email.byu.edu Sat Oct 20 12:00:25 2001 In response to the query on national anthemns in hymnbooks: I know the LDS Thai hymnbook has the Thailand national anthem. It does look out of place a bit, because it seems to be photocopy from another book, as the fonts and music typesetting are much different than the other LDS hymns there. (and its been years and I've lost my copy of the Thai hymnbook, but I faintly remember there being a few hymns not found in the English hymnal, but I can't be sure of that). - --ivan wolfe - ------------------------------------------- >From ersamuel@byugate.byu.edu Mon Oct 22 10:03:12 2001 Patriotism is seen as something genuinely virtuous, I think. Why this is = so, is a bit beyond me. I know that in the Norwegian hymnal, Ja Vi Elsker = (the national anthem) is in there, and Saints are urged to sing it every = May 17 (Norway's Independence Day). But Norge Mitt Norge, a far prettier = patriotic song which some folks think should be the national anthem, is = not in the hymnal. I'd also add that our current English language hymnal = does include the music of the national anthems of two other nations: The = UK (God Save The Queen) and Finland (Finlandia). Just with different = lyrics. =20 As for the larger question, which is, should we be patriotic at all as LDS = people, I don't know the answer. Is patriotism virtuous? I think of = myself as quite a patriotic American, and worry that it gets in the way of = being a good Mormon. Since 9-11, I've noticed, at least in Utah, one = absolute: the more flags on the car, the worse the driver. And I am = bothered by the song God Bless America. We're the richest country in the = history of the world. And we want more blessings? Shouldn't we be = singing God Bless Afghanistan? I think this is a great subject for LDS writers, BTW. Can you be LDS and = a war protestor? What cultural pressures would be brought to bear on = someone who was both? What about the patriotism of LDS folks with dual = citizenships (like Shawn Bradley, for example)? What about someone who = joins the Church, has kids, but heartily dislikes everything about Boy = Scouts, and especially the flag waving and gun shooting politics of it? = How would such a person remain active? (The closest I have ever come to = leaving the Church came as a result of a horrible experience with Cub = Scouts and those little balsa cars that kids are supposed to build, carve = and race. Stupid of me, of course, but I quit going to Church for some = months after watching my 8 year old get laughed at by the other boys and = their parents, because the car he and I had slaved over didn't make it to = the end of the track. Make a great story, that.) Eric Samuelsen=20 - ---------------------------------------------- - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:37:49 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] re: AML-List Proposals (comp 4) [MOD: And another set of comments...] >From iaw2@email.byu.edu Mon Oct 22 09:04:39 2001 I say - no massive changes - but I wouldn't mind seeing many of the "me, too!" type messages not being sent to the list - even if volume is down - because generally all they really are is a quote from the original email (which I've already read) and a quick sentence or too merely agreeing. Other than that, I wouldn't mind having a few more messages a day. but that's just me. - --ivan wolfe - ---------------------------------------------- >From debbro@voyager.net Mon Oct 22 09:48:14 2001 I vote we stay the way we are now. It takes longer to gripe about the number/value/quality/quanity and so on of this or any list for that matter, then it does to hit the delete key. Why just in the amount of time it takes to read this post, a person could have deleted at least a dozen. Debbie Brown - -------------------------------------- >From glennsj@inet-1.com Mon Oct 22 10:56:21 2001 I agree with those who would like to leave things as they are. I love the informal, conversational feel of the list. Like most of you, I pick and choose which posts I want to read and have become very adept skimming and deleting, but I like the kind of ad hoc variety and sponteneity that the current set-up engenders. Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - ------------------------------------------------ >From jana@enivri.com Mon Oct 22 14:11:45 2001 I vote that we keep the List as it is. But, have an option for "the best of AML" where 5 posts are chosen each day and forwarded to those who want a low volume list. If I remember correctly, Ben had a program going like this for awhile. That would avoid the problem of choosing which messages are/aren't literary, etc. Just choose 5 (presumably 5 good ones), and leave it at that. Jana Remy So. CA. [MOD: This separate "best of/news items" list still exists, under the name of AML-Mag. One of the things I'm currently considering is whether this separate list can be revamped to make it a more attractive option for those who have problems with the volume of the main AML-List. Thoughts?] - ------------------------------------- >From rrasband@yahoo.com Mon Oct 22 19:06:34 2001 I agree with Chris Bigelow. Don't change a thing. If you don't want to read a post, delete it yourself; maybe somebody else finds it interesting. I trust Jonathan as moderator (and Benson before him); that AML-List still remains provocative while being blissfully free of the flame wars that plague other lists is a sign of this list's vigorous good health. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com - ------------------------------------ >From petersent@suu.edu Wed Oct 24 15:43:38 2001 As per Jim's suggestions, couldn't the list be unmoderated, say, over the = weekend, during which time there tends to be less traffic (I'm assuming = because of the moderator taking a break)? Todd Robert Petersen [MOD: I think it unlikely that the AML-Board would approve having an "unmoderated" period for AML-List, given the organization's sponsorship of the List (ultimately, although they are unlikely to care about details such as precisely how many messages are posted to AML-List each day or not, larger questions such as whether the List can be unmoderated or whether a second companion list could be created are in their hands). I can say that we've always tried to keep List traffic light on weekends (and nonexistent on Sundays) in part because many AML-Listers get these messages at work, and would be under a serious disadvantage coming in on Monday to see that an entire discussion had taken place over the weekend. That, and the day of rest principle...] - ---------------------------------------- - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:49:52 -0600 From: "Paris ANDERSON" Subject: Re: [AML] Fluff > Marianne Hales Harding > President, Society for the Study of Deep Fluff > "Dude, that fluff is deeeeep." wrote: > And you can ponder the deeper truths of the gospel while munching on > brownies that your home (or, more likely, visiting) teacher brought. I > stand up for all those who sing "If you could hie to Kolob" while harboring > a not-secret desire for brownies that somebody else baked! :-) I know I can't keep up with most people on this list--mentally speaking--but one this I know: brownies and other forms of happiness are all that is important in life. I'm really happy to know that I might not be alone in this secret knowledge. "Fluff", I believe, has its place. I beleive emotions are extremely important in our lives, not only for us to create changes in the metaphysical world (Which will cause change in the physical world), but also for us to recognize the miracles in our everyday lives. I'm not certain about this, but it seems to me fluff is a way for people to train themselves so they can process bigger emotions, deeper emotion, and not be overwhelmed. Emotions aren't all innocent. Some can be very dangerous if not processed correctly. (Told you I was bat-[fluff.] [MOD: Thanks for being accommodating!] Paris Anderson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:22:54 -0600 From: "Jeffrey Savage" Subject: [AML] High-tech Thriller Definition (was: _Cutting Edge_ Review) D. Michael Martindale wrote: >Thanks to the marketing approach Covenant selected, Jeffrey Savage's >_Cutting Edge_ comes across that way. It's not that small feet can't get >the job done. They can pitter-patter kids around with greater energy >than most adults manage. It's just that they look pretty silly when they >try to wear shoes that are too big for them. The marketing for _Cutting >Edge_ was too big for the book. >_Cutting Edge_ is billed as a high-tech thriller. This evokes images of >sweeping global conspiracies and shadowy professional villains. Even the >title makes a bold claim, suggesting sexy technology that pushes the >boundaries of science fiction. If this is what you expect to read when >you pick up _Cutting Edge_, you'll be disappointed. This ain't no Tom >Clancy for Mormons. Michael, Thanks for the review. It is great to hear back from such experieced readers and critical thinkers. As authors, I think that we are always wishing that we could get inside a reader's head as they read through what we have written. Even though you and I might disagree on what I view as pacing and you view as a dreadfully slow first couple of chapters, it helps me incredably to see through another set of eyes and reevaluate my work accordingly. One of the things that suprised me most though, was your assumption that my novel was over-billed or as you described it, that I was pattering around in my parent's shoes. I went back and reexamined the marketing that Covenant did for my book to see if they inadvertantly insinuated that my book was a global political thriller. More than once, a jacket blurb, advertisement, or cover, designed by Covenant has contained inaccurate information. (Including at least one kidknapping that I am aware of, that never takes place in the novel.) So I would not have been surprised if that had been the case. I couldn't find anything though that contained any inaccurate information. I have to assume then, that your expectations were based on your definition of high-tech thriller and the title. It may not be of interest to anyone else in the group, but as someone who is trying to introduce a fairly new genre in LDS fiction, I would love to examine those expectations. One of the better definitions of a "Thriller" that I have read is (I am paraphrasing here since I don't have the book in my hands right now) "a book about characters who find themselves or someone else trapped by frightening circumstances that force them to take extrodinary steps to survive or protect someone." The key here is that the protagonist is either the victim or is protecting the victim, or both. Within the thriller catagory are many subcatagories including, but not limited to: Political, Action Adventure, Legal, Romantic, Fem-Jep, Medical, and High-Tech. Although many people automatically think of Ian Flemming or Tom Clancy when you say techno-thriller, the first actually falls more into the action adventure, and while Clancy's "Hunt for Red October" would probably fall into this catagory, many of his books actually fall more into the political thriller catagory. A simple definition of a techno or high-tech thriller is a story in which the protagonist must either be threatened by technology or use technology as a means to survive, or noth. While many techno thrillers involve the CIA or other military organizations, hence the cool nightscope, smart bomb, etc., more and more the plot is tied around computers, the Internet, virtually reality etc. In my novel, the technology that both gets Travis into and out of harm's waym, is a technology that I was introducing on a press tour at the time I began the novel, three years ago. We were showing off an intelligent assitant that could perform a variety of tasks by responding to verbal commands, keystrokes, mouse clicks, or even physical gestures (waving your hand for example.) The assisatnt could be set up to monitor stocks, search out and summarize news stories, check the weather, check for particular e-mails, etc., as well as all kinds of games. We got coverage in everything from PC Mag, to The Wall Street Journal, to Rolling Stone. It was, and still is some of the hottest technology out there. It was the combination of this technology with the obvious thought, "What if this cute little parrot hopping around my screen was actually spying on what I am doing?" that sparked the idea for the story. Neither I nor Covenant ever intended this to be a Global espionage type of book, any more than Grisham planned on carrying the Firm very far outside of Memphis. If anything, when I pictured people possibly reading my book one day, I pictured my Grandmother's second husband. John was a carpenter of the variety that wouldn't know what to do with a calculator, but could estimate almost to the foot the amount of lumber needed to build a house. I don't know what he would have done if you tried to place a romance, church history, or other typical LDS fiction in his hands, but it wouldn't have been pretty. (Although Marilyn, I think he would have liked The Wine-dark Sea of Grass.) But every evening you could find him sitting in his beat up recliner with a dog-eared copy of one Louis L'Amour paperback or another. He wasn't looking for a hidden message, or deeper meanings. He wasn't looking to be comforted or afflicted. It was just his way of unwinding. There are two compliments that I appreciate most about this book. The first is when people tell me that their father/brother/son reads no LDS fiction, or in some cases no fiction at all. But they gave him my book and he loved it and can't wait for the next one. I hope that every time someone picks up an LDS novel, regardless of wheather it is mine, Marilyns, Jack Weylands, or whoever's, and enjoys it, that they will come in and try another one. We are introducing people who think LDS book stores are only for doctrinal works to the beauty of LDS fiction, one novel at a time. The second comment is when someone tells me that I kept them up until two in the morning, because they just had to see how it ended. For me, that means that the story worked. I like to envision myself sitting around a camp fire telling a, hopefully, engaging tale. If the audiance stays even after the fire burns out and it starts to get cold, then it means that for a few hours at least I have had them hooked. And while I have other manuscripts in various stages of completion that might have an occassional glimmer of a higher aspiration here and there, my most important goal is always going to be to write a story that lets the audiance escape for a while and enjoy the fantasy. I am sorry if that comes across as not fullfilling expectations, (although the thought of their 210 lb Dad pattering around the house cracked my kids up) but I am glad that you did stick around the camp fire until the end of the tale. - -Jeff - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #497 ******************************