From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #522 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Monday, November 19 2001 Volume 01 : Number 522 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:04:14 -0700 From: "Ethan Skarstedt" Subject: RE: [AML] Point of View As far as I am concerned there is only one rule concerning POVs: Don't jar your reader. =20 I have read pieces from first person, third person and, believe it or not, one piece in second person, with a wide range of omniscience. Some have worked and some have not in each category. Those that did not work, did not work because they yanked me out of the story. I was no longer watching a movie in my head, I was reading words on a page. Those that did work, worked because they drew me in. The POV is, by definition, how the reader experiences the story. If that experience is jerky and disjointed he's not going to want to continue reading. Therefore the experience should be smooth, transitions seamless and just who is experiencing what, crystal clear. This can be accomplished with any number of POVs, the more POVs the harder it is, but sometimes it's worth it. - -Ethan Skarstedt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:15:53 -0800 From: "Richard Hopkins" Subject: Re: [AML] Tasteful Ellipses Eric's problem with the DN and their tastful ellipses is, IMHO, a good example of an extreme I have seen in LDS publishing. Here's an example: When I was at Horizon as their sales manager, our best selling book was _I Saw Heaven_, an inspiring and possibly enlightening NDE story. Several people, including one rather influential BYU professor I know personally and respect, but with whom I disagree on this point, wrote to Deseret Book complaining that, in their humble opinions, the book was total fiction and BS (using here a kind of opposite to tasteful ellipses). DB pulled the book, and would only order it as requested by customers after that. They wouldn't even put it in their stores next to the other NDE stories like George Ritchey's book. I've never been able to understand the reasoning there, but I think it has to do with this closed attitude of self-censorship we sometimes display, which I agree with Eric is counter productive in a vast number of ways. It is difficult to deal with it, and as a publisher, I find it odd when some stores send back a book because Satan is alluded to as a character in the book, for example. These people, of course, need to send back the scriptures as well. And those who edited Eric's sentence need to read the 19th chapter of Judges. Perhaps we should cease to presume that it is good to edit the kinds of things God, Himself, put in the Bible. Mind you, I believe in a standard for censorship in LDS literature, and since I'm ranting about the subject, perhaps I should just throw it out there and see what you think. This is what I think the standard should be. If good is portrayed as good and evil as evil, it's okay. If good is cast in a bad light or portayed as evil or evil as good, it's not okay. What think ye? Richard Hopkins - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 16:01:51 -0700 From: Eileen Stringer Subject: [AML] Art and the Spirit (was: Fluff) "I also think that it's not right to conflate crying with the spirit. Lots of non-Mormons (i.e. people without the gift of the Holy Spirit) cry. Some people, cry at long distance commercials, does that mean the Spirit of the Lord is working through ATT?" - -- Todd Robert Petersen You never know about the Spirit of the Lord do you? This may be the only way it can "actually reach out and touch someone." I agree that tears do not denote "being moved upon by the Spirit," but at the same time lack of tears does not necessarily mean the opposite. Tears are fallible and should not be used as evidence for or against the workings of the Spirit. Tears are a product of emotion, something caused those people to cry, was it the Spirit? There are those on this list who purport to have been able to feel the Spirit speaking to them through different genres and mediums of art, that frankly if the Spirit is speaking to me through them, I have been deaf to His voice or have misplaced my universal translator. I should like to put forth a little theory of mine, if our moderator will allow and give my thinking on what is the purpose of art and letters in the world. I look at Arts & Letters as a form of communication and I think it entirely probable and possible that God and His Spirit aka The Holy Ghost use all forms of Arts & Letters to communicate with the entire family of man, not just those of us blessed with the Gift of the Holy Ghost. I think the Spirit tries to communicate with everyone at sometime during their lives and works through any medium available, work of art, piece of literature, etc. ever created by a mere mortal. How any given person hears or interprets the message and acts on it is his or her responsibility. Maybe some stories, paintings, etc. are harder for the Spirit to work with than others, I mean why do some things touch you, but not me. Is it construct, is it content, it is the fact that there is little truth to work with, is it the intent of the artist or the reader / viewer / listener or is it the language that is inhibiting us? Why do some people dislike Peterson's _Backslider._ Why did they not hear what D. Michael heard and find reason, compassion, and enduring characters. Why did the image of the Cowboy Jesus speak so negatively to some and so positively to others? Why can some on this list hear the Spirit speaking to them through Metallica and others hear only the noise? Guernica moves some to tears of understanding and others just want to tear out of the room. Maybe the Spirit can only communicate with some people through an AT&T commercial. It may not be high art, but it is communication, but that should not be the only choice the Spirit has to communicate through. I am not suggesting that any of us chuck away our chosen art forms and begin to write AT&T commercials or pithy stories. I agree with Thom who offered his wife's example as a springboard for what we can do that and show people a higher form of art. Keep taking the Mediterranean casserole, perhaps after each ward dinner you will take home less and less each time. Eileen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:04:13 -0700 From: "Cathy Wilson" Subject: Re: [AML] Fluff Sharlee wrote: I felt that the choice of music and images > trivialized the Atonement in a way that was unconscionable. But as I looked > around the room, I saw tears streaming down the faces of many of the sisters > in the ward, and I realized that they were genuinely touched by what they > were seeing and hearing. Whether it was the Spirit, emotional manipulation, > or post Taster-Table gas is not for me to say. No, it's not for us to say. But it's an important consideration. In the church we often equate strong emotional response with the workings of the Spirit. Please understand that I'm not being negative about emotion! I say that strong feelings, tears and feeling touched in our hearts are all great things, wonderful. But they aren't necessarily the Spirit. I think that sometimes in the Church we incorrectly equate the two. Cathy (Gileadi) Wilson Editing Etc. 1400 West 2060 North Helper UT 84526 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:31:24 -0600 From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Buffy the Vampire Slayer (TV Series) I don't see where anyone else has brought this up yet . . . pardon me if I= =20 missed it. Was it just me, or did portions of the recently-aired musical episode=20 remind anyone else of certain LDS-themed musicals such as "My Turn on= Earth"? - -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam=85 God bless America! My home, sweet home. - -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:56:43 -0700 From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: Re: [AML] Cantabile Chorale at Temple Square R.W. Rasband wrote: > p.m. Come up and say hello (I'm the big guy with the beard in the bass > section.) What!? Another big guy with a beard? Okay, there's got to be some link between big guys, beards, and the AML-list. I just haven't figured out what it is yet. Any ideas? I'll buy Scott Bronson's argument that a beard is the best way to cover up a double-chin, but what is the AML connection? :-) Sharlee Glenn glennsj@inet-1.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:56:27 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Point of View Richard Hopkins wrote: > This is an extreme, but I have noticed in my reading that at least two > extremely popular writers, John Grisham and Tom Clancy, pay little attention > to the rules of POV that we seem to regard as sacrosanct. Yet their books > sell better than ours and, frankly, what they do doesn't seem to hurt their > stories. In fact, it often adds a useful dimension to the tale. Now I agree > that they don't draw you into their world in as powerful a way as Orson > Scott Card does, but they are pretty popular. Are we too hung up on the > rules of POV? Anybody want to comment? I think the difference is how you do it. King, in his latest novel, _Black House_, (and pretty much in all his books), alternates POV from inside the character's mind to omniscience. Yet one is never lost, because he makes it very clear what he's doing. The reason I think the POV rule exists is that it is so often the sign of an amateur writer (as is using -ly adverbs) and they don't it well. The greats, Grisham, Clancy, King, and others, break the rule all the time but not in such a way that you lose the flow of action or get confused. Being somewhat of an expert on King, I'll say that he breaks every rule I was ever taught in createive writing classes. So it can be done (using multiple POVs in the same section of a novel), but it takes a certain skill. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 01:40:37 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Point of View Terry L Jeffress wrote: > Certainly an omniscient narrator has the option to peek into the head > of any character, major or minor. Writing with an omniscient narrator > has gone out of fashion, but still gets used occasionally. In my (limited) experience as a critiquer of others' work, I have discovered that "omniscient POV" is often used as a justification for bad handling of POV. The fledgling writer is in fact writing third person limited, but decides on occasion to pop into someone else's head for a paragraph, or even a sentence, and tries to cover it up by invoking the word "omniscient." This is _not_ omniscient POV. This is third person limited POV with nasty POV violations. With omniscient POV, the POV character is actually the narrator, and the main characters in the book are more or less equal. If one section has a dominant POV character, then it is third person POV, not omniscient, and you need to stick with that POV until you insert a scene break. > Because of > the recent custom of using tight-third person narration, the first > time an omniscient narrator switches heads, it jars me, but then I > adjusted to the idea that I will see into the heads of every > character. Because omniscient POV is rarely used these days, if you're going to write in it, you'd better do it carefully, making it real obvious real fast that's what you're doing, and keeping very clear who's head we're in at any moment. Otherwise you'll just come across as an incompetent writer who's using omniscient POV as a lame excuse to cover up bad POV handling. If you thought you were writing omniscient POV, and readers accuse you of POV violations, you don't try to convince them it's really omniscient POV. You realize that you didn't do it right and need to go back and fix things. (Along the way, ask yourself why you're trying to use the unfamiliar omniscient POV in the first place. Is it really necessary? Or are you just too lazy to figure out a way to tell your story without hopping into whatever character's head suits you at the moment?) > (For example, Tolkien writes with an omniscient > point-of-view, and he often tells to the feelings of various > characters in the same paragraph.) I disagree. I believe Tolkien wrote third person POV with POV violations, because there was usually a dominant POV in each scene. It's been a long time since I read it, so I'm not entirely sure about the claim I'm about to make, but possibly one example of good omniscient writing is Frank Herbert's _Dune_. At least I don't recall feeling disturbed as he popped in and out of various people's heads within the same scene. On the other hand, if I read it again now that I've become a stickler on POV, maybe it _would_ bother me. > Although the omniscient point-of-view Clair Poulson used clearly didn't > bother me as much as it bothered Brent, Poulson almost never > telegraphed his switches in narrative perspective, but eventually you > got used to the idea that Poulson considered any on-stage character's > head fair game. It sounds like Poulson really was going for omniscient POV, but didn't have the skill to do it right. Either that, or he's entirely oblivious to the concept of POV, so took the narration all over the place out of ignorance. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:24:12 -0700 From: Eileen Stringer Subject: [AML] Eternal Feminine in Lit "The Sanctity of Womanhood - LDS Version of Goethe's 'das Ewig Weibliche'" I teach the Teachings for Our Times lesson in Relief Society this month and this is our topic or at least I hope to make it our topic. I have been thinking about a different way to approach thes lesson and hoped this approach will be meaningful, thought-provoking, and dare I hope, life-changing. I think bringing literature into the lesson plan stimulates good discussions in class and some of our best learning moments have come from these tossing about of ideas. All this talk of fluff has had me pondering the idea of Goethe's "das Ewig Weibliche" the eternal feminine and the role it has or may have in literature in general and in Mormon letters. I have been reading stories with this concept in mind and seeing how it fits in or if the stories I have been reading have an element of the eternal feminine in them. I really liked Marianne's character in The Backslider and loved the fact that the Cowboy Jesus was her idea and how that image or vision saved Frank and their marriage. Is this an evocation of the eternal feminine? I am looking for the an evocation in the female characters in several different works such as Hugo's The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Les Miserables; Peterson's The Backslider; Japrisot's A Very Long Engagement; Card's Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide and Children of the Mind; Cather's My Antonia; Gaskell's Wives and Daughters; and Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings. Should the evocation be limited to just the female characters? I am looking also to see how the Mormon worldview defines the Eternal Feminine. How do we as writers of Mormon literature define it and how does it translate in our writings? How does the Eternal Feminine agree or disagree with The Sanctity of Womanhood. Do they not both reach for the same end - realizing that women are goddesses or at least have the potential? How does our striving for goddesshood draw men closer to godhood? Any questions, comments, rebuttals, ideas? [MOD: Eileen--or someone else--could you expand on this idea of "the eternal feminine" for those of us not familiar with Goethe's ideas and/or other sources on this subject?] Eileen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 01:52:05 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Point of View (was: Clair POULSON, _I'll Find You_, Review)) Richard Hopkins wrote: > This is an extreme, but I have noticed in my reading that at least two > extremely popular writers, John Grisham and Tom Clancy, pay little attention > to the rules of POV that we seem to regard as sacrosanct. Yet their books > sell better than ours and, frankly, what they do doesn't seem to hurt their > stories. In fact, it often adds a useful dimension to the tale. Now I agree > that they don't draw you into their world in as powerful a way as Orson > Scott Card does, but they are pretty popular. Are we too hung up on the > rules of POV? Anybody want to comment? Rules are made to be broken, especially in art (otherwise, no progess). But the ancient folk wisdom that you'd better know the rules before you break them is still as vital as it ever was. There are trade-offs to everything. If you're going to break a rule, you need to understand why the rule is a rule and what price you're going to pay by breaking it. You then have to decide if what you'll gain from it is worth the price. You can break any rule you want (I think I've seen Card break every rule he's uttered at least once), but one of two things had better happen, or your story will suffer. Either you'd better know what you're doing and are convinced the benefit outweighs the price, or you'd better be awfully lucky and have the damage you do in ignorance be outweighed by other things you do right. I suspect that John Grisham and Tom Clancy fall under one of those two alternatives. Are you feeling lucky today? If not, then you'd better learn the rules and only break them carefully. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:03:38 -0700 From: luannstaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Point of View > Are we too hung up on the rules of POV? Anybody want to comment? > > Richard Hopkins > I've noticed the floating P.O.V. some in current novels as well. Most of the time it hasn't bothered me because the author kept us clearly informed as to who we were with. I must note one exception, Bill O'Reilley's first foray into fiction, titled Those Who Trespass. O'Reilley changed P.O.V. within the same sentence and at least four times in every paragraph. It was so annoying. I've enjoyed his non-fiction books, but I can understand why his novel didn't do as well in sales! [Luann Staheli] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 13:07:11 -0500 From: "robert lauer" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Mysticism Earlier I wrote: > > > I think a strong sense of realism IS a requirement of Mormon literature. > To which D. Michael Martindale wrote: >I think you'll be proven wrong. Of course, it all depends on your >definition of realism. I agree with this. However, I maintain that the nature of reality--not our interpretations of it--DEFINES reality; the purpose of the mind is to perceive reality, not create it. I'm speaking here metaphysically (concerning the nature of the physical). Later in his post, Michael wrote: >Once we achieve omniscience, we may be obliged to write nothing but >realism. But until then, our knowledge is sufficiently incomplete (the >understatement of the eternities) to allow plenty of leeway in >speculation, in crossing the boundaries of realism into mysticism, >without straying from the basic doctrines of the Gospel. While I don't believe that even God has or can acheive omniscience--the Gospel's doctrines concerning matter, time and space, I believe, rules out such a thin)--I would agree with the above statement. In my own writing, my LDS characters act inresponse to dreams and visions. I think these are all completely natural psychological events; but that doesn't deter their power or significance. Again, I think of the old truism: what we can't explain, we label miraculous or mystical. But metaphysically speaking, it is neither one. ROB LAUER - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 14:16:53 -0700 From: "Paris Anderson" Subject: [AML] re: Dark Muse in Literature I'd like to thank all the people who made remarks about "dark muse." It = really helped me. For many years I have been angry at God, and at = whoever else was in the way, for destroying me and my family. I always = had the belief the God directed the Church and was ultimately = responsible for calling my father to be a mission president in = Argentina. As a result the time I spent in Argentina I was horrible = maimed both physically and psychologically. (And as our illustrious = moderator could testify I still am somewhat volatile, though I try not = to offend--too often.) A felt as a result of the time I spent it = Argentina, and compounded by my own mission to Mexico (a shattering = experience), I had become exactly the opposite of what the gospel of = Jesus Christ professes. I became violent, menacing and uncaring. I = bought into a system, and when I crumbled and became undesirable, the = system rejected me. I felt I had been betrayed by the system I had very = nearly given my life for--twice--and I was very angry. I wrote that essay, "On Growing Up Tough," trying to express the anger I = felt over an unjust situation--over what I felt was the ultimate = betrayal. In reading the various posts about the dark muse, I slowly = came to realize the evil that befalls a man--that which causes = anguish--is good. Suffering causes purification. I don't know if understanding that makes it all better, but it makes me = respect the art of suffering more. It makes me feel confused about the = betrayal I felt and about the anger. I'm really not sure if there are = any boogeymen anymore. Are all things, whether good or evil, working = for our benefit? Anyway, I feel a lot more comfortable right now, and I think it has a = lot to do with some things you people out there in cumputerland said. = Thank you. Paris Anderson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 06:39:08 -0600 From: Ronn Blankenship Subject: [AML] Leonids Hi, all, I just got back inside. The skies were milky here but there were lots of fireballs as bright as Sirius and several as bright as Jupiter, many red-tinged with green trails. The way they were still coming until it got too light to see anything, I suspect people further west than here (Mountain or Pacific time zones, etc.) should be getting a pretty good show. So how was it where you were? [Obligatory connection to Mormon literature: Joseph Smith wrote about seeing the 1833 storm in the _History of the Church_, vol. 1, p. 439, 443.] - -- Ronn! :) - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Ronn Blankenship Instructor of Astronomy/Planetary Science University of Montevallo Montevallo, AL Standard Disclaimer: Unless specifically stated otherwise, any opinions stated herein are the personal opinions of the author and do not represent the official position of the University of Montevallo. - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:55:08 -0700 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Fluff I cry at the Hallmark commercials. Marilyn Brown - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:36:05 +0000 From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] Online Magazine Features Three literary features in the online magazines Meridian Magazine and Deseret Book Mormon life. 1. Feature on Geoffrey Card http://www.meridianmagazine.com/books/011115card.html A fine little feature, but it includes the ridiculous sentence: "Card was faced with the unique challenge of creating a novel from a screenplay, something that rarely occurs in literature. Hollywood produces a myriad of films every year based on successful novels, but the number of novels based on original films each year can probably be counted on one hand." Huh? I see tons of the junk in bookstores all the time. (The knock-off Hollywood-movie based novels, that is, I have high hopes for Card's book). 2. Review of Written in the Stars by Michele Ashman Bell http://www.meridianmagazine.com/books/011114hansen.html A defensive and incestuous little review written by one Covenant romance author for another. Hansen does a fine job at defending the genre. One line stuck out, though. "Some critics accuse contemporary LDS romance novels of lacking realism because they don't contain vulgar and profane language, explicit sex scenes, nor are the female protagonists as liberated as some would like." I doubt that anyone has ever made this criticism. Anyone wanting vulgar language and explicit sex scenes would never even consider an LDS romance novel. Hello, straw man. Nope, the criticism comes from somewhere else. 3. A feature on Elder Groberg and The Other Side of Heaven movie at the Deseret Book site. http://deseretbook.com/mormon-life/entertainment/one-article?article_id=463 Andrew Hall Fukuoka, Japan _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 11:17:16 -0500 From: "Debra Brown" Subject: [AML] Fw: MN "Miracle Man" Examines Life of Lazarus: Cedar Fort Press Release 14Nov01 US UT Prov A2 [MOD: This seems like a peculiarly inept press release, since it tells nothing about the author, or publisher, or price; where the book is available; etc... Does anyone else have this information to supplement what appears here?] "Miracle Man" Examines Life of Lazarus SPRINGVILLE, UTAH -- In the days leading up to the great Atonement, Jesus Christ stood before an open tomb outside of the little hamlet of Bethany and commanded, "Lazarus, come forth!" Shortly, a man came shambling out of the cave, still bound in gravescloth, in response to the summoning of the Master. But one might ask, whatever happened to Lazarus after his resurrection by the hand of the Son of God? Did he live, only to die of old age at a later time? or did he return from paradise a changed man, in a quickened state, to live on as an immortal among the children of men? "Miracle Man: The Lazarus Chronicles" explores the concept of an immortal Lazarus, traveling the world from the ascension of Christ to the present, and the lives he might have touched in his unique way. Perhaps it was he that inspired the laws of chivalry in the courts of Camelot, or helped a king find the strength within to lead his country to independence. Maybe it was he who taught Da Vinci about the people he painted as the artist labored on his masterpiece of "The Last Supper." Lazarus crosses paths with the apostle John occasionally as time passes, and at times is helped by a mischevious angel named Raphael. But the overwhelming messages of this novel are ones of service to others, of the secret talents we each are endowed with and why, and of recognizing the hand of the Lord in all things. Source: "Miracle Man" Examines Life of Lazarus Cedar Fort Press Release 14Nov01 US UT Prov A2 >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:24:05 -0700 From: margaret young Subject: [AML] re: Point of View One author who writes about writing (Ben Nyburg) feels that it takes a very experienced writer to use 1st person effectively, and recommends a 3rd person narrator with limited omniscient. I think the 1st person and the limited omniscient are pretty comparable, but I really think it's hard to do a fully omniscient narrator, and would strongly advise against it for any beginning writer. The temptation to enter into all sorts of interior monologues in all the characters' minds is just too big, and then the story's tension just bogs down like a dead frog. (Yes, I do like that simile.). [Margaret Young] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 07:50:16 -0800 From: jltyner@postoffice.pacbell.net Subject: Re: [AML] Kitsch (was: Fluff) D. Michael mused whether a lot of classical music and scenes from plays, etc. have become kitsch when they become used,(overused) in commercials, movies and other pop culture venues. I was wondering the same thing myself. I take it from the tone of his post he doesn't think so. I tend to agree, but if someone doesn't know the original source of the piece will they look at it as kitsch because of the manner in which it's used? One of my favorite Calvin Grondahl cartoons has a teenager introducing a violin piece he's about to play with the words, "I'm about to play something that was wild and radical in the 18th century and is now considered spiritually acceptable in the 20th.". Perception. Isn't that what some of the back and forth has been about? As better educated as the average Latter-day Saint is, well rounded is not the word that comes to mind especially when it comes to classical music and classical literature. Those of us old folk can probably reminisce since we got a good grounding in music appreciation in elementary school. Alas, I'm afraid I knew too many people at BYU who thought the HFAC was a new fighter jet the ROTC's were training to fly. The best attended concert was the PDQ Bach concert put on every April Fool's day. I was glad I was forced to spend time in the Library listening to different composers I might not have sought out on my own, but I'm afraid as much as I like the story of William Tell I can never hear the overture without seeing Clayton Moore rearing up on his horse with the voice-over crying, "...and a hearty hi ooh Silver!" This is a little off the thread but, I watched a performance on PBS yesterday of combined BYU choirs doing folk hymns. The copyright date was 1994. I would like to know if one of the choir directors, Dr. Ronald Staheli is still at BYU. He was one of my professors and we have found out he is one of my husband's cousins. An amazing guy, hope he's still there after all these years, he hasn't aged a bit it seems. Kathy Tyner, Orange County, CA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 03:18:04 +0000 From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] Religious Themed Plays (Deseret News) Deseret News, Sunday, November 18, 2001 Offerings have religious themes By Ivan M. Lincoln Deseret News theater editor All of the new stage productions opening in the region this week have religious themes =97 most of them, of course, centered on Christmas. But two independent productions, both by playwrights/ actors with Utah connections, are at opposite ends of the scale. "THE RENTED CHRISTMAS," the poignant tale of a successful =97 but lonely =97 bachelor/businessman who decides to "rent" a family to keep him company during the holidays, will play Nov. 23-Dec. 22 in the Villa Playhouse Theatre, 254 S. Main, Springville. What he doesn't bargain for is that love, family and the Christmas spirit will combine to change his life forever. Scott Tarbet is directing a cast that includes Mark Taggart in the central role of bachelor John Dale. This is the nonmusical version of the popular show (the musical version is scheduled Dec. 6-18 at the Draper Historic Theatre). The cast also includes Gena Bertelsen as the rental-shop owner (her "We rent anything" advertising slogan is put to the test when John Dale comes into her store); Heather Jensen as an orphanage director, and Amy Snyder as John's best friend. The children will be played by Daniel Jensen, Margret Milius, Rebecca Chambers, Tyler Lopez and Hannah Earl, with Marie Knowlton as Bridget, the frosty housekeeper, and Tisha Thornhill as Martha, her sister= =20 and household cook. Performances will be Mondays, Fridays and Saturdays at 7:30 p.m. Tickets are= =20 $8 for general-admission seating, $7 for students and senior citizens (60 and over) and $6 for children, 11 and under. There is also a $35 family pass. For reservations, call the Villa Playhouse box office at 489-3088. "STONES" is the one-word umbrella for Scott Bronson's two one-act plays =97= =20 "Altars," based closely on the scriptural story of Abraham and Isaac, and "Tombs," which explores the relationship between Jesus and his mortal mother, Mary. While both plays are "very religious pieces," Bronson notes that they are, "first and foremost . . . about fathers and mothers." The cast of both shows will include Bronson, Kathryn Laycock Little and Elwon Bakly, all of whom have performed on stages throughout Utah County. Performances will be 7:30 p.m., Nov. 23, 24, 26, 29 and 30 and Dec. 1 in the Villa Playhouse's intimate Little Brown Theatre, 239 S. Main, Springville. For reservations or further information, call 489-3088. "CONFESSIONS OF A MORMON BOY," by author/actor Steven Fales, tells about growing up in the LDS Church, serving a mission and performing in Brigham Young University's Young Ambassadors troupe, and his dilemma in facing his strong gay feelings, yet being in love with Emily Pearson =97 daughter of LDS poet/author Carol Lynn Pearson. Fales has performed at Pioneer Theatre Company and at the Utah Shakespearean Festival, in addition to several Utah County appearances. He currently lives and works in New York City. Performances of "Confessions of a Mormon Boy" will be Nov. 23 (a discounted "preview" performance), Nov. 24, 29 and 30 and Dec. 1, all at 8 p.m., in the Leona Wagner Theatre of the Rose Wagner Center for the Performing Arts, 138 W. Broadway (300 South). There will also be two matinees, on Sunday, Nov. 25 and Dec. 2, at 3 p.m. Tickets are $15 for regular admission and $10 for students (or groups of 10 or more). All "preview" tickets are priced at $12 each. For reservations, call ArtTix at 355-2787 or purchase tickets directly from the box offices at the Rose Wagner Center, the Capitol Theatre, Abravanel Hall or Kingsbury Hall. "SAVIOR OF THE WORLD,"which The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter- day Saints premiered last year in its new Conference Center Theater, is back for another holiday season engagement. The two-act musical drama is a reverent treatment of biblical accounts of both the birth of Jesus (Act One) and his crucifixion (Act Two). Tickets for all performances are sold out, but some "standby" seating may be available from day to day. Performances will be 7:30 p.m., Tuesdays-Saturdays, Nov. 24-Dec. 29, with Saturday matinees at 2 p.m. on Dec. 1, 8, 15, 22 and 29. There is no performance on Christmas Day. The "standby ticket" procedure calls for potential patrons to visit the Conference Center ticket office the morning of the performance they wish to attend. After receiving a number, they'll be asked to return that evening to the theater, where any unclaimed tickets will be sold to the standby group in numerical order. Standby tickets cannot be ordered by telephone or e-mail. All tickets are $7 for evening performances and $4 for matinees. =A9 2001 Deseret News Publishing Company _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 10:25:35 -0700 From: Eileen Stringer Subject: Re: [AML] Eternal Feminine in Lit > [MOD: Eileen--or someone else--could you expand on this idea of "the eternal > feminine" for those of us not familiar with Goethe's ideas and/or other > sources on this subject?] My understanding, briefly and admittedly limited, of the Eternal Feminine--In the last lines of Faust, Goethe employs the words "The Eternal Feminine / Draws us upward and onward." The Eternal Feminine is Love, the leading, guiding force through all human endeavor, and appears to man in its embodiment in women. Gretchen, Helen, and the Virgin Mary, in Faust, are all manifestations of this concept. Gretchen represents personal, sacrificing love. Helen is symbolic of humanity's love of intellect and culture. The Virgin Mary is compassion for all mankind. The Eternal Feminine redeems all who ceaselessly strive. It is the goal of all upward striving, of all humanity's attempts, however futile or misguided, to improve itself or the world. Love is the uplifting and redeeming power on earth and in heaven; and to man it is revealed in its most pure and perfect form through woman. Thus, in the transitory life of earth, it is only a symbol of its diviner being; the possibilities of love, which earth can never fulfill, become realities in the higher life which follows; the spirit, which woman interprets to man in this life, still draws us upward (as Margaret draws the soul of Faust) there. The idea Man cannot be saved without Woman and that Woman embodies divinity here on earth. Woman embodies not only the power of creation but of redemption. That is my understanding - limited though it may be. I welcome further enlightenment. I find it an interesting concept especially as it pertains to Mormon Literature and our cultural and theological ideals about womanhood. How can this concept be implemented in our literature, has it been thus far and if so how? Eileen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #522 ******************************