From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #524 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, November 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 524 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:46:17 -0700 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Eternal Feminine in Lit - ---Original Message From: Eileen Stringer > My understanding, briefly and admittedly limited, of the > Eternal Feminine--In the last lines of Faust, Goethe employs > the words "The Eternal Feminine / Draws us upward and > onward." [snip] That ties into the Mormon idea that it requires both man and woman to attain the highest celestial glory and the implications that has of "becoming one" (however you want to interpret those scriptures). However, I think the cultural baggage behind woman being an interpreter for the Spirit is pretty much frankly denied by LDS theology and implementing it in literature will turn off much of your general LDS audience. There's two very good reasons for this. First, we stress, more than any other organized theology, the importance of a personal relationship with God and the vitality of personal revelation. We may find inspiration in the scriptures, in nature, or in diverse places and situations, but we never, ever allow the responsibility for spiritual enlightenment to be diverted through any proxy besides Jesus. You'll get the occasional throw-back occasioned by our surrounding cultural influences, but for the most part, putting women between God and Man will jar an LDS audience. The second, more problematic flaw for me, personally, is the whole "angel in the home" image that was so popular to Victorians (and, er, the 1950's). Making women responsible for homely spirituality is an insidious way of abdicating the nurturing responsibilities of fatherhood. I worry any time I hear from the pulpit how some leader has a wife better than he is. It might be true, it's probably a self-verifying statement, but it really doesn't do me any good to hear except to make me wish that it was the wife at the stand instead of the speaker. We explored some of the more subtle ramifications of the "angel in the home" in my Women's Studies classes--to the point where I can't encounter the image without a deep personal shudder, though it could be worse--it could have been woman on a pedestal (which not only isolates, it immobilizes). Woman as object of worship is such an ingrained human tendency (probably inculcated by childhood memories, and, er, seductive flattery) that I wonder if Heavenly Father refrains from revealing much about Heavenly Mother in order to prevent an easy idolatrous proxy. You can see how with Catholics the Merciful attributes of Jesus have been removed and bestowed upon Mary perpetuating the damaging gender split of traditional societies. If you don't feel like emulating a loving, personal, forgiving God, just give him a mother or wife (or concubine or whatever) and off you go meting vengeance out to the infidels (whether in your own family or in some neighboring country). It's convenient, and very, very wrong. Jacob Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:23:18 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Online Magazine Features Andrew Hall wrote: > Three literary features in the online magazines Meridian Magazine and > Deseret Book Mormon life. > > 1. Feature on Geoffrey Card > http://www.meridianmagazine.com/books/011115card.html > > A fine little feature, but it includes the ridiculous sentence: > "Card was faced with the unique challenge of creating a novel from a > screenplay, something that rarely occurs in literature. Unique? I agree with Andrew. Not unique at all. Especially considering the fact that Geoff's dad (the inimitable Orscon Scott) adapted _Abyss_ from James Cameron's screenplay. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 16:37:14 -0800 (PST) From: William Morris Subject: Re: [AML] Eternal Feminine in Lit I think that Eileen does a good job of capturing the essence of the idea in her post, but I couldn't resist sharing the following paragraph written by Richard Cracroft: "When Johann Wolfgang von Goethe ended his monumental Faust with the line "Das Ewig-Weibliche zieht uns hinan" (The Eternal-Feminine draws us upward), he suggested the ineffable spiritual possibility inherent in woman to sense, welcome, and act on the highest within her and to inspire other human beings to comprehend their divine birthright and potential" (BYU Magazine, Book Nook, Spring 1998). This paragraph was introducing a column on the very thing Eileen is asking about, the eternal feminine in Mormon literature, although Cracroft used the idea rather loosely to include, basically, writing by women that is about/for women (although, weirdly, LauraMaery Gold's internet book plays into the mix as well). For the full column see: http://advance.byu.edu/BYM/1998/98spring/booknook.html Now it shouldn't surprise anyone that the concept of the eternal feminine has been both embraced and rejected by feminists of the latter half of the 20th century. Embraced in the form of those who were into the rediscovery of ancient godesses and matriachal societies; rejected by those feminists who see femininity as a male construct designed to hold women in place. >From what little I know, "das Ewig-Weibliche" as a part of German society became linked to the nuclear family and the rise of the career man. As the middle-class developed, the man become he who went out and battled the world and who can only be redeemed by the women who stayed and home and created a refuge for him. Along with that (and along with evolution and other non-religious based explanations for the world) came a transfer of religious feeling to women. The women was (mystically) the repository of the divine, the one connected to God (the man having been disconnected by technology and society). This idea is prefigured in Faust as Eileen alluded to in her post. Faust is the modern man using knowledge (and while his knowledge seems 'mystical,' it really is quite technical if you look closely at the way he goes about mastering the black arts) as a tool to gain wealth and power. It is Gretchen (and Mary) who saves him because they, because of their femininity, have access to the grace of God. This idea may have some resonance for those on the list (Jacob, Alan Mitchell, Harlow?) who served a mission to Germany or Austria as I'm going to guess they encountered many doors where the man of the house said 'talk to my wife--she's the religious one.'" [That is, those homes where the man would even let his wife speak to missionaries]. In fact, Magdalena in _Angel of the Danube_ is linked closely to the eternal feminine, even explicity by Barry (the Weibchen he keeps referring to---but more on Barry later, I hope). I don't know if Alan is aware of that tradition, or used it as background for his novel, but the background he did use is related to that concept. Okay, but to get back to the transfer of religious feeling to the feminine. I'm at a place in my thinking about Mormonism (and by extension Mormon literature) where this concept is quite clouded in my mind. On the one hand, we are taught that gender is an eternal principle. I believe this to be true. At the same time, I'm not comfortable with the idea that women are somehow more privileged when it comes to spirituality. I think it's often used as an excuse for laziness by men who buy too much into a wrong-headed view of masculinity that focuses on the exercise of power and closing off of feeling (i.e. machoism, careerism, unrightous dominion, prolonged adolescence etc) instead of the strength through love and knowledge that the Saviour teaches. So how does one portray women and eternal feminine characteristics without going overboard on the whole Ewig-Weibliche, women-have-built-in-spirituality thing? Anyway, all this is my way of saying that I think that the intersection of the eternal feminine with Mormon culture and thought is definitely a creatively challenging and vibrant place for Mormon literature to explore. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:23:10 +0000 From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] CARD, "God's Army" (BYU Newsnet) New book takes on "God's Army" By Charity Brunson NewsNet Staff Writer "God's Army" is once again bringing the missionary experience to the masses -- but this time through a novel based on the movie, written by former BYU student Geoffrey Card, son of author Orson Scott Card. "This book tells it like it is," Card said. "It's basically for anyone who's interested in what Mormon missionary life is really like." Card, 23 from Greensboro, N.C., said he thinks other returned missionaries will enjoy the novel. He said it will others them a chance to relive their own mission experiences. Richard Dutcher, who wrote and starred in the film, said he is pleased with the adaptation. "Novelizations aren't easy" Dutcher said in a news release. "He was able to expand the movie's plot and characterizations, but still remain faithful to the film." Card said he was asked to adhere rigidly to the film's plot, so he used the extra space available in the novel to give added insight into the thought processes and feelings of the characters. He said getting inside the characters' heads when writing was not difficult since he had returned just a year ago from his own Los Angeles-area mission. "The thought processes of a missionary were still pretty well laid in my mind," Card said. "Sometimes I even had to tone down the lingo so other people would understand." Card's fresh memory of missionary life is perhaps one of the reasons he was chosen to write the novel. He initially made contact with Excel Entertainment Group, the distributor for both the film and the novel, to refer them to a review he had written of the film after watching it on opening night. The company felt Card had a good take on the film, and when they began looking for someone to write the novel, he made the list. After submitting a few sample scenes adapted from the film, Card said he got Dutcher's backing to do the novel, despite his lack of experience. "I'm grateful that Richard was willing to give me a shot at doing what I really want for real," Card said. Although this is his first novel, Card said that apart from briefly entertained childhood dreams of Paleontology and firefighting, a career in writing is what he has always envisioned for himself. "I grew up in a writer's house, living a writer's life and loved it," he said. "It's nice to be able to create this life for myself." At age four, he filled a three-ring binder full of short stories he'd written. His interest in the genre continued though high school. During Card's freshman year at BYU he wrote his first feature- length screenplay. Since he was studying film the medium shift seemed a natural progression, he said. Since then, Card has written seven feature length screenplays, and is now studying film at Chapman University in Orange, Calif., with a directing emphasis. "God's Army" marked Card's first return to prose writing in about five years. "At first I was scared because I knew it had been so long and I didn't know if I could do it," Card said. "But it turned out to be a lot easier than I thought. Prose is probably the medium that flows most naturally out of most writers." Card said he relied heavily on his family for advice during the yearlong=20 writing process, which involved about four months on the first draft plus two major rewrites. He said his dad has had "a huge influence" on his writing. As much as he admires his father's work, though, Geoffrey Card said he hopes to establish a career based on his own abilities and not on his dad's reputation. "I'm going to be doing my own thing," he said. "I'll probably spend my life making movies, which is something my dad hasn't done yet." The 200-page novel will be available in bookstores nationwide on Nov. 14. Copyright =A92001 BYU NewsNet _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:27:07 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] Beards and AML-List - --- Sharlee Glenn wrote: > R.W. Rasband wrote: > > > p.m. Come up and say hello (I'm the big guy with the beard in the > bass > > section.) > > What!? Another big guy with a beard? > > Okay, there's got to be some link between big guys, beards, and the > AML-list. I just haven't figured out what it is yet. Any ideas? :-) > > Sharlee Glenn > glennsj@inet-1.com > He said (with tongue firmly in cheek) that in newly liberated Afganistan, many Moslem men are shaving off their Taliban-mandated beards in resistance to an imposed social conformity. Some LDS men *grow* beards for not dissimilar reasons. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Find the one for you at Yahoo! Personals http://personals.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 00:27:54 -0500 From: "Debra Brown" Subject: [AML] Fw: MN Young LDS Film Festival to Begin November 29th: LDS Box Press Release 17Nov01 US UT Prov A4 Young LDS Film Festival to Begin November 29th PROVO, UTAH -- Get ready for the First Young LDS Film Festival! With over 70 entries, the film festival goes into its first promising year. Filmmakers from the United States, Canada, Europe and Asia submitted their work, with most entries coming from either Utah or California. The film festival will take place in Provo between November 29 and December 1, and in Salt Lake City on December 8. Please go to: http://www.ldsbox.com for more information on the festival's program, finalists and exact dates and times for all events. Be part of a weekend that celebrates LDS filmmakers and films! You can support young filmmakers with your attendance at the festival. The competition programs will play at the Provo Theater on Thursday, November 29, at 5.00 and 7.30 p.m. As an audience, your vote will count as an additional judge. Besides the festival competition, the program in Provo also includes a symposium and panel discussion featuring prominent LDS filmmakers and theoreticians, filmmaker's presentations on the art of moviemaking and screenings of films that are not part of the competition. For program details, go to: http://www.ldsbox.com/cgi-bin/program.php . We'd love to see you at the First LDS Film Festival 2001. Celebrate with us the talent and artistic diversity of young aspiring LDS filmmakers! If you are interested in bringing the "Best of Competition" program to your city, stake or ward, please contact us at feedback@ldsbox.com Source: Young LDS Film Festival to Begin November 29th LDS Box Press Release 17Nov01 US UT Prov A4 >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:16:09 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Tasteful Ellipses Richard Hopkins wrote: > Mind you, I believe in a standard for censorship in LDS literature, and > since I'm ranting about the subject, perhaps I should just throw it out > there and see what you think. This is what I think the standard should be. > If good is portrayed as good and evil as evil, it's okay. If good is cast in > a bad light or portayed as evil or evil as good, it's not okay. What think > ye? Ultimately, my standard is, is it true? Since I believe the universe was designed with the principles of the Gospel built into it, then I think a book has to be faithful to Gospel principles to be true. The book, mind you, not the characters or the things the characters choose to do. The practical application of my philosophy produces yours: good is good and evil is evil. Of course, that leaves room for a lot of personal interpretation. My recently completed novel has a character who would not be considered good by my standards, but who doesn't get her come-uppance by the end. She continues to live her life as she always did. I wrote it that way because life works that way sometimes--because it's truth. God allows the rain to fall on the just and on the unjust. On the other hand, she is still stuck in a life of mooching off of boyfriends and clouding her mind with drugs and has not learned any lessons to help her break out of that destructive cycle. So life does give her the come-uppance she earned all along, and that's clear to any discerning reader of my book. It just isn't always clear to LDS members who subscribe to the bean-counting method of identifying morality. After all, she says the a-word once! And some of the things she does! What an immoral book! I still love Richard Dutcher's quote about this, which is one more way to say what you and I are both saying: "You can tell any story if it's from a faithful point of view." - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 14:01:50 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Point of View REWIGHT wrote: > I want to comment. > > On another writing list I submitted a story that was criticized by other > members of the group for it's POV switching. (You know who you are.) > > The result is that my rewrite is at a standstill. I'm petrified to put > anything down. "Is this a POV violation? or isn't it. How do I let the > reader know what's going on from different characters perspectives without > putting in scene breaks every couple of paragraphs? What's wrong with that? It's done all the time. >I think what the average reader really wants (and that's who I am interested > in), is a good story. Most readers don't sit down to a book and analyze POV. The problem is, if you don't handle the POV correctly, the writer gets confused. If you can change POV and not lose the reader, then do it. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:45:35 -0700 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] Beards On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:56:43 -0700 "Sharlee Glenn" writes: > What!? Another big guy with a beard? > > I'll buy Scott Bronson's argument that a beard is the best way to > cover up a double-chin, but what is the AML connection? :-) Well, it's a (now, not so) secret combination. You have found us out. Brethren, we will have to change our meeting time and place. The remainder of this message is encrypted: Happy Thanksgiving. scott - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:35:20 -0700 From: margaret young Subject: Re: [AML] Fluff Marilyn--that probably means you're pregnant. Brown wrote: > I cry at the Hallmark commercials. Marilyn Brown > > -- > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:35:58 -0700 From: "Tyler Moulton" Subject: Re: [AML] Leonids At 2:00 a.m. I saw one good meteor in about half an hour of looking. When = I awoke and went outside again later it was completely overcast. Tyler Moulton Provo, UT (Mormon lit tie-in: Ronn mentioned the 1833 event that the Saints = witnessed, but in the back of my mind there was another one that Joseph = Smith prophesied several days in advance. Anybody know where I can find = it?) - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:15:26 -0700 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] Kitsch (was: Fluff) Kathy Tyner asked about Ron Staheli: >I watched a performance >on PBS yesterday of combined BYU choirs doing folk hymns. >The copyright date was 1994. I would like to know if one >of the choir directors, Dr. Ronald Staheli is still at BYU. >He was one of my professors and we have found out he is one >of my husband's cousins. An amazing guy, hope he's still >there after all these years, he hasn't aged a bit it seems. Just ran into him in the hallways yesterday. Yes, indeed, Ron Staheli is = still directing choirs at BYU. What a superb conductor, and what a = wonderful human being. He's had some personal tragedies lately, which he = has overcome with his usual grace, humility and courage. My wife and I = were fortunate enough to meet while singing in one of Ron's choirs at BYU = (I was the tallest bass, she was the tallest soprano, so we sat next to = each other), and we subsequently sang for four years in an alumni choir he = started called Canti Con Brio. And last year, Ron conducted a performance = of a new choral piece that Murray Boren and I wrote. And yes, Ron has not = aged at all. (That portrait on the wall, however. . . .) Eric Samuelsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:50:36 -0700 From: "Mary Jane Jones" Subject: Re: [AML] Kitsch (was: Fluff) My husband is a conductor of classical music, currently employed as the = Associate conductor of the Charleston Symphony in SC. As associate = conductor, he has to conduct most of the Pops concerts. He really = struggles to find music that 1) appeals to a pops audience and 2) sounds = good when played by an orchestra (many pops arrangements for orchestra are = just terrible--for example, orchestras aren't designed to play Beatles = tunes). It is a terribly difficult balance to find.=20 All those commercials and cartoons that use classical music actually help = the situation. Bundit (my husband) has been able to program music for = Pops concerts like Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries (from Apocolypse Now) = and Lizst's Hungarian Rhapsody (from multiple cartoons). People recognize = the tunes, and then they are introduced to the rest of the music by a = professional orchestra. It helps ease them in to the experience of = classical music, which to many, many people can be an intimidating = experience. They are listening to serious classical music and enjoying = it. Because of the setting they first heard the tune in (ie. a film or a = cartoon) the music becomes more relevant to their life. And the music is = still beautiful and powerful. I am sure that a lot of purists hate the fact that some great pieces of = classical music have become punchlines (for example, the opening bars of = Strauss' Thus Spake Zarathustra). On a side note, classical music is = becoming less and less relevant to people, and if classical musicians are = going to survive, they need to find a way to communicate with mass = audiences. Purists would scorn Andrea Bocelli for opening the Victoria's = Secret fashion show on ABC--Bocelli will sell a lot more albums because he = did. Purists will always scorn the artists who find ways of communicating = with the masses, saying that the artist has "sold out." It happens in all = art forms. But back to the idea of kitsch. I don't think art becomes kitsch when it = becomes popular. I think it becomes more powerful. =20 This summer Bundit and I spent three months in Europe. We spent a day in = the Prado Museum in Madrid. The very famous painting by Velazquez of a = Spanish princess was on display (I think it is called Las Meninas-- it's = the one from the point of view of the king and queen, as their portraits = are being painted). We had seen images from that work on every bit of = tourist garbage in the city. But when we saw the painting itself, it was = magnificent. In spite of all the kitsch being made with that image, the = image itself was beautiful and powerful, and hadn't lost anything from its = popularity. Another, more personal, example. Bundit was introduced to classical music = as a teenager in Thailand through--get this--Hooked on Classics. For = anyone who isn't familiar, Hooked on Classics was a series where snippets = of classical music were played to a drum machine in 15 minute medleys. He = started listening to Hooked on Classics, and soon discovered serious = classical music. And now he's a professional conductor. Kitsch can serve = a noble purpose... Mary Jane PS. I sang in that Thanksgiving BYU Combined Choirs production that they = show on PBS. It was a marvelous, spiritual experience for me... - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:46:32 -0700 From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: RE: [AML] Tasteful Ellipses Responding to: <<>> I've been thinking a little lately about Brian Evenson's _Father of Lies_, which is a pretty hard novel to read as an active LDS because it seems at first glance to cast the Church in a bad light. It is full of thinly veiled disguises of Church things, and those things get warped and abused in the story of a child rapist and killer who finds sanctuary and enablement within the Church. However, I wonder if by seizing upon and amplifying the dark possibilities in our culture, Evenson isn't doing us a favor by dramatizing what COULD happen or even arguably what DOES happen in what I hope are a few isolated cases (a blip here and a blip there, as President Hinckley calls them). I don't think Evenson is calling evil good with this story, and I don't think he does anything as black and white as calling good evil. However, he does show where mortal good has some evil potential, or at least the potential to be manipulated by evil. The problem with the definition quoted above is that you can't purely define good and evil. What parts of the Mormon culture are "good," and what parts are just the result of mortal evolution and limitation? Chris Bigelow - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:43:06 -0700 From: Eileen Stringer Subject: Re: [AML] Eternal Feminine in Lit > Interesting. Does this only have to do with exceptional (or powerful) > women? And how would the Romance genre fit into your analysis? As far > as I can tell, the single greatest specifically LDS audience is LDS > women buying Romance novels. Rachel Nunes and Sharlee Glenn(?) could be > useful reads here. You might also look at Linda Adam's books because I > understand that she is writing a very strong (strong as in strong > writing, not strong as in powerful female) female protagonist. > > Jacob Proffitt The women do not have to be powerful women. Romance genre - well using Faust as the standard how does Romance fit into the analysis. Do those writers use the Eternal Feminine in their writing. Women embodying creation and redemption, the divine here on earth. Yes, I can see how Romance could certainly be fitted into the analysis. I have to admit that I have not read anything by Nunes or Glenn. I have read Linda Adams' book and found that her writing does evoke the Eternal Feminine. Was she aware that she evoked it? That is my question as well. Is the Eternal Feminine a concept of what could be defined as "great literature or classics." Can understanding and incoporating the concept in Mormon literature lead us to greater writing? Eileen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 23:01:59 GMT From: cgileadi@emerytelcom.net Subject: Re: [AML] Eternal Feminine in Lit [MOD: Just a reminder that we need to stay focused on the literary connection here...] William Morris writes: At the same time, I'm not comfortable with the idea that women are somehow more privileged when it comes to spirituality. I have heard this used as an explanation for why women don't hold the priesthood: because men NEED the priesthood in order to be kind, charitable, obedient, willing to serve . . . all that. Before you turn red and fly to pieces, note that this reasoning was given by a very high-up GA in a regional conference a few years ago. . .I nearly exploded out of my Marriott Center folding chair when I heard it but my kids strapped me down :). Cathy Wilson - --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:08:24 -0700 From: "Todd Petersen" Subject: Re: [AML] Eternal Feminine in Lit The most useful and interesting work of contemporary feminists has put forth the idea that men are drawn away from the "eternal feminine" (they don't use that term, but it's a good one, I think. They say jouissance--see something like Helene Cixous's LAUGH OF THE MEDUSA or Julia Kristeva's THE REVOLUTION OF POETIC LANGUAGE). So rather than the idea that women are more spiritual, the idea is that men are initiated into some less spiritual order more connected with running things and being in charge. This gives femininity something that exits before we get here in this life, it exists prior to this world, which is a true principle since it is also contained in the Proclamation on the Family. Faust would be one of those fellas who use their intellect and language and gender to be bossy and in charge of things. This kind of thing is what a fella named Lacan the symbolic order. Maybe this might help answer William's question or musing on this issue of innate spirituality. Or this, men like team sports a lot and use the innate spirituality idea to justify painting their chests orange and blue. I write about this a lot. See my story that was in Irreantum a while ago. It's called "Long After Dark." - -- Todd Robert Petersen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:20:59 -0700 From: "Todd Petersen" Subject: Re: [AML] Tasteful Ellipses Richard Hopkins said that " the standard should be if good is portrayed as good and evil as evil, it's okay. If good is cast in a bad light or portrayed as evil or evil as good, it's not okay." I think that this is a good idea in theory, but the writing that tends to come of it is usually trite and one-dimensional. People are often compounds of good and evil, and this is something the scriptures even teach: "it must needs be that there is an opposition in all things." It doesn't say and opposition BETWEEN all things. It says IN all things. I think our best literature is going to show that to be the case. Also, this idea of a "bad light" is something I think causes problems, but Thom really dealt well with that. I'd use something like American History X as an example. This is a story of redemption, but you have to travel along the path of sin for a while so that the redemption makes sense to us. I think that most LDS writers are afraid to write about the sinner and their sins. The fear stems from overcautious religious training. I'd offer the standard of this: LDS writing should have a trajectory of hope in it, not one of despair. This means we can travel with the fictional sinner, experience grief and even depravity. If we feel can read a difficult story and still feel like there is a God and a Savior, and some method to us for making our lives into something graceful, then we're in the ball park. I think if a work cuts us off from that, it is at odds with the gospel and thus can't really be considered LDS. - -- Todd Robert Petersen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:24:48 -0700 From: "Todd Petersen" Subject: Re: [AML] Leonids I looked up Ronn's Leonid reference, and was delighted to discover that this happened right before the Saints were expelled from Jackson county. What an author that Heavenly Father of ours is. How poetic a turn. Joseph Smith sounded like John Muir in those passages. I watched from the Kolob Plateau near Cedar City and, yes, I felt close to Father's dwelling place for those couple hours. - -- Todd - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:42:47 -0800 (PST) From: William Morris Subject: [AML] Character Preferences Eric Samuelsen's post about the mystical way in which characters make appearances in the minds of the author and the subsequent discussion led me to the following question: Do you find yourself attracted to writing/reading about certain types of characters? What specific demographics are you engaged by more than others? I, much to my chagrin, recently realized that out of the 5 short stories I have written or have in the works, 3 of them feature main characters that are old men. What's that all about? After thinking about it, I decided that I liked writing about old men because they I like the layers of experience they bring to a story. It's also easier for me to write skepticism and world-weariness. Which means I should probably write something full of youthful enthusiasm. Eric, in the few works of his that I have read or read about shows remarkable range. Is that hard to do? Is there something to be said to sticking to a specific type for awhile----maybe you'll really get it right? I don't know, I can see that with specific genres but writing the same type of character over and over again...But then again, while there are differences, the main characters in each of Kafka's (unfinished) novels are all of the same type. Thoughts? Confessions? Or for all of the rest of you is it: it doesn't matter who the character is as long as he/she/it is compelling. ~~William Morris __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:09:19 -0800 From: "Richard Hopkins" Subject: Re: [AML] Point of View Terry L Jeffress wrote: > Take most movies > as a case in point, where we remain outside all the characters yet > still have a pretty good idea about how the character feels about the > situation. You don't really need internal monologue to represent a > character's feelings. We have all learned to make judgments about a > character's feelings based on external demonstrations. Sure, we > sometimes get in trouble with our spouse because we drew the wrong > conclusion, but movies work because the audience has these skills. > Your reading audience has the same skills, which you the author can > manipulate at will. I write screenplays as well as novels and I find that a cinematic POV occasionally gets into my novels simply because it is more convenient to describe a scene cinematically than to get into a specific character's POV. On those occasions when I've used this method, it is because I feel the story is better told from a cinematic perspective. Is this wrong? Should I strain the story to put the scene into some character's POV? Richard Hopkins - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:43:28 -0500 From: "Debra Brown" Subject: [AML] Fw: MN Father and Son in Joint Book Signings: Excel Entertainment Press Release 19Nov01 A2 Father and Son in Joint Book Signings Orson Scott Card and Geoffrey Card Sign Copies of Their Latest Books SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH -- Award-winning author Orson Scott Card and his son Geoffrey not only share remarkably similar faces, they share a passion for writing. Both Cards will be in Utah this month to sign copies of their lates books. Orson Scott Card will sign his latest novel, Rebecca. Geoffrey Card will be signing copies of his first published work, God's Army, a novelization of the breakthrough independent film. Father and son will appear together at the Deseret Book in the ZCMI Center in downtown Salt Lake City on Monday, November 26 from noon to 2 p.m. They will also be at the BYU Bookstore on Tuesday, November 27th, from 11:30 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. Geoffrey Card will make a solo appearance at the Read Leaf Bookstore in Springville, UT on Saturday, November 24 from 6:30 p.m. to 7:30 p.m. Orson Scott Card is best known as the author of the Ender's Game series, which won him several prestigious writing awards, including the Hugo and the Nebula Awards two years in a row. Geoffrey Card was a missionary for the Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints in Anaheim, California from August 1997-99, the same time that the film God's Army was being made in missionaries in Los Angeles. He currently attends the Chapman University School of Film and Television where he writes feature-length screenplays and films amateur movies. ### Source: Father and Son in Joint Book Signings Excel Entertainment Press Release 19Nov01 A2 Orson Scott Card and Geoffrey Card Sign Copies of Their Latest Books >From Mormon-News: Mormon News and Events Forwarding is permitted as long as this footer is included Mormon News items may not be posted to the World Wide Web sites without permission. Please link to our pages instead. For more information see http://www.MormonsToday.com/ - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #524 ******************************