From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #542 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Tuesday, December 11 2001 Volume 01 : Number 542 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 00:05:43 -0800 From: harlowclark@juno.com Subject: Re: [AML] Character Preferences On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:42:47 -0800 (PST) William Morris writes: > I, much to my chagrin, recently realized that out of the 5 short > stories I have written or have in the works, 3 of them feature > main characters that are old men. What's that all about? Peter Straub uses an epigraph for _Floating Dragon_ to the effect that the earliest heros of Am. Lit. were old men. His old men heros are a couple of lawyers named Hawthorne and James. (I think at the end of the story the lawfirm takes on the name Hawthorne, James & Poe.) The epigraph adds poignance to the novel because you realize the heros can't stay around long, no matter how the story turns out. He ends _Ghost Story_ (essentially the same story, different setting and characters, epigraph from Hawthorne) with the main character feeling "a wave of love for everything mortal, for everything with a brief, definite life span--a tenderness for all that could give birth and would die, everything that could live, like these men, in the sunshine." Incidentally, I really like the opening to the prologue of _Ghost Story_: _What was the worst thing you've ever done?_ _I won't tell you that, but I'll tell you the worst thing that ever happened to me . . . the most dreadful thing . . . _ Maybe _Ghost Story_ is a metaphor for the worst thing that ever happened to me. It intersects with that worst thing in many ways. I read it when Donna and I flew back to NYC eleven years ago when my oldest son was baptized and he wouldn't let me participate--which is not the worst thing that ever happened to me, but it's part of it. >Is there something to be said to sticking to a specific type for > awhile----maybe you'll really get it right? I notice that a lot of my characters are people in deep emotional pain. I'm not sure I like to read about that, but it's often what I write about. (I wish I were funny.) The longest story in my thesis was a short novel about a BYU student whose marriage is in deep trouble but he can only admit it to himself in his dreams. (The opening dream has him dreaming Lehi's dream, set on BYU campus, struggling toward the great and spacious building (the library) while people drown in the fountain-that-isn't-there-anymore just south of the Brigham Young statue.) After writing that and some other stories I decided to write a funny story with lots of elaborate wordplay (Honk if you love Groucho), but the wordplay turned out to be elaborate word games the character plays to take his mind off impending and tragic divorce. He prays for relief, and gets it. He backs his car into a ditch at midnight and three teenaged girls come along and help him get out, so it's a Three-Nephites story, but instead of the girls disappearing into the fog, he does. I haven't written a lot of fiction the last few years though. In 1996 I signed onto an e-discussion group and got diverted into the personal essay, and for the past 10 years I've been developing an odd mix of personal essay / literary theory / lit crit. Harlow Clark ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 00:18:49 -0800 From: harlowclark@juno.com Subject: Re: [AML] Writer's Lament (pt. 1) On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:42:39 -0700 "Scott Parkin" writes: > I saw the creative and stylistic and philosophical depth of their > work and I wanted to be like them. I also knew that I didn't have > a powerful vision for my fiction like they seemed to have, only > a desire to tell and sell stories. I began to feel like a hack > surrounded by Artists. Back in the late 80s when I first contemplated applying for a Guggenheim Fellowship someone said, "You're that good?" "I'm one of the best writers in America." (I'm not a good grant writer, however and didn't get it in 1991, or when I applied again several years later, taking my application to the Eastbay P.O. the day the Space Shuttle flew over Utah County, right over my head, piggyback on a Boeing 707(?), and then Hugh Pinnock's brother (I think) stopped as I was running along the overpass over the RR tracks to catch the bus at 3rd S. and gave me a ride out to the U. Mall to catch the connecting bus, and bought donuts on the way. (I was sorry to hear Elder Pinnock had died a couple of years ago (tie-in to Mo-lit? He appears in Linda Sillitoe and Allen D. Roberts' _Salamander_).) wouldn't it be nice sometimes if e-mail programs had color-coded parentheses like spreadsheets so you could keep track of how deeply embedded your expression is?) Ok, so really, I'm a hack surrounded by artists, but even a chainsaw can turn out great art if it just keeps hacking away. > The weird part is that I think the last five stories I wrote are five > of the seven best stories I've ever written. At the same time, > those same stories haven't received even a sniff from the markets > I submit to. Maybe it's because I'm slowly changing from an sf > genre writer into something else (don't ask me what; sort of > mainstream-y or pseudo-absurdist-y or light literary-y or something > that allows for fantastic elements but that still focuses on issues of > personal evolution--if I could identify a specific marketing category > I'd start submitting there tomorrow). Why not call it magical realism? Knowing what to call a story can help a lot in defining the audience likely to read and understand it. My father wrote a brilliant sci-fi story called "Aryan Jew" about an Aryan man and a Jewish woman who have been put aboard a space ship after the nuclear holocaust to become the new Adam and Eve. It's the kind of story where you have a council or organization that has taken over the earth. He hasn't published it because the premise is scientifically implausible. The council has been treating these two (son of a Nazi, daughter of a holocaust survivor) for years with small amounts of radiation to build up their immunity so they can raise up a race that would be immune to nuclear holocaust. One of my father's scientist friends told him that the body doesn't develop immunity to radiation that way. It occurred to me a couple of years ago, and I mentioned it to him, that he could make it an alternate history story, where WWII ended with a massive germ warfare attack and the cold war was biological not nuclear. In that context immunity makes perfect sense. I need to mention this to him again, and see if I can get him to rewrite it. He tried to expand it into a novel, but says he doesn't have the vision to structure a novel. I think Leslie Norris once told me the same thing about himself. So, Scott, you may be calling your stories by the wrong name. There's a large audience for magical realism, as there is for allo-history. Find out where the magical realists are publishing and target those publications. Harlow Clark (a short post for once? Take a deep breath . . .) ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 02:09:00 -0700 From: James Wilson Subject: Re: [AML] Critiques and Writer's Dreams I find it interesting that your TA would have wanted more description. I guess I'm from the Struck and White school; be concise, be concise, be concise. My own work has short, simple descriptions. That's what I like myself, and that is what appears in my favorite Great Books. I don't suppose there's any need to emulate anybody except great writers; many of the most descriptive writer I've read over the last few years didn't get very far. I think flow is more important; instead of setting the scene give the reader a little credit. Doubtless he has an imagination of his own, and will use it. A short, clear description is my ideal, and one I have to work at because I tend to get wordy and carried away. Personally I think your TA was an idiot. I'm not a very good critic, and tend towards perfectionism, but that's too much. A writer ought to have more compassion for another. After all, who else can understand? I haven't been published yet either, but the idea of spending several pages describing raindrops is rather horrifying. I don't suppose they could drip much differently than usual, and focusing on trivial beauties doesn't make them more beautiful. Criticism is always hard to take, but " bits of ivory" are like children, and a parent grieves to have a child slandered. H. Beam Piper, a science fiction writer who shot himself because an editor told him he would never make it as a writer, had great success after his death. Millions of his various books sold through the seventies and eighties. I go with Teddy Roosevelt on this one. Criticize all you want, but make sure there's sand between your toes first. James Wilson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:12:16 -0700 From: katie@aros.net Subject: Re: [AML] Harry Potter Books > Could > anyone be a little more direct about Rowling's literary virtues? I don't > recall > seeing a post regarding just what it is that many of you like about her. > > Jim Picht > One thing that she has done that I believe has worked to her advantage, and to Harry Potter's, is to use the familiar to create something new, yet familiar. She's taken some familiar elements of fantasy and Halloween-type witchcraft, like spells, potions, broomsticks, etc. and she's woven them into yet another familiar setting: that of a school. Now, most people who read Harry Potter will have attended a school of some sort. They know what it's like to deal with teachers, homework, other students, and so forth. So readers can sympathize with Harry quite easily, simply because they know what he's going through. The magical elements make the story interesting. So we can sympathize with Harry because we know what it's like to have to do a difficult assignment in school, but his story interests us because his difficult assignment is to levitate a frog. We can sympathize with him when he plays Quidditch, because we've also played and enjoyed watching sports. The fact that he and the others play this sport on flying broomsticks, and have to deal with enchanted balls that fly around on their own, makes it more interesting. But the details are what really bring the story to life. Just one example is of the broomsticks. Rowling could have simply had them ride on flying broomsticks and that be the end of it. But instead, there are different brands of broomsticks, and in the first book Harry is thrilled to get a top-of-the- line Nimbus 2000, which makes him the envy of all around him. This is another realistic detail added to something that's not too real. - --Katie Parker Salt Lake City, UT - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 14:14:38 -0900 From: Stephen Carter Subject: RE: [AML] YOUNG & GRAY, _Standing on the Promises_ Margaret Young wrote: Perhaps the most >troubling thing I've heard lately--and this from three returned missionaries >who served in different missions--is that some false doctrine is circulating >again (a discourse by Alvin Dyer which talks about valiency in the >pre-existence). These missionaries received it ON their missions. Can we >call that discourse Mormon literature and hence tie it in with the list's >objectives? Here's my question: How on earth can we get that talk out of >circulation? Is it possible? Or how can we train missionaries to recognize >that its teachings are contrary to the scriptures? Do we need a special class >at the MTC for this? I received a copy of this talk on my mission. It had been copied so often that the text was barely a ghost on the page. It must have been at least 20 generations from the original. I was interested in the ideas the essay presented, especially because THE most spiritual people I met on my mission were from Africa. While the Caucasian investigators I was teaching muddled around trying to pray, the Africans had visions of angels (seriously). I don't remember having much of a reaction to the speech, probably because it went so much against my experience that I just figured I misunderstood it. To address Margaret's question, I'm not sure it is possible to get the speech out of circulation. I'm not even sure it's desirable. Censorship, especially from the likes of us literary types, is hard to justify. What we do need is a missionary culture that values critical thinking a little more. I know from my experience on my mission in Canada (it may be different elsewhere) that unquestioning obedience is THE rule. When something like Dyer's speech comes around, it's my opinion that most missionaries have little enough practice in critical thinking and enough vague, but powerful awe of authorities, that they assign the talk to the class of obscure (and therefore interesting) general authority pronouncements. In some ways this lack of critical thinking is both a boon and a bane, because often the talk won't make any substantive impact on the missionary's mind at all. However, in some circumstances, its ideas may surface again and cause damage. The only defense against misguided ideas is the spirit-informed critical faculty. Believe me, there is a lot more than just that talk floating around in missionary land. Stephen Carter Fairbanks, Alaska - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 07:07:09 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Harry Potter Books Jonathan Langford wrote: > My point is that, taking these as my > baseline, I don't think Rowling quite makes the "great" category--at least, > not yet. It may be that by the time the series has ended, I'll revise that > opinion. Taken in isolation, I don't think the film _God's Army_ is great. It's a pretty good, sufficiently entertaining story. But placed within its cultural context, where it had significant influence, it achieves the status of greatness. It pioneered new trails, accomplished something people were saying was impossible, opened up new potential for a new genre of art. That makes it great in my mind. I think the Harry Potter books fall under the same classification. Sometimes you have to look beyond the words to the cultural influence to find the greatness in a work of literature. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 07:15:13 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Fw: MN Bigfoot and Mormons?: Shane Lester Press Release 3Dec01 A2 > Clan of Cain: The Genesis of Bigfoot is a newly > published book that offers a different dimension to the Bigfoot > mystery. > The book asserts the theory that Cain is in reality the legendary > Sasquatch. Unlikely as it is, I hope this turns out to be true. Then maybe Mormons can get rid of the theory that the mark of Cain is black skin--it's really a fur-covered body. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2001 11:40:13 -0700 From: "Webmaster" Subject: [AML] What Sells Novels? I've been following the Harry Potter commentaries along with the discussion of pov, and thinking about things I've been learning of late, and I thought I'd write some comments that might be discussed, analysed, and maybe even used by some of us writers to improve our work. I recently read the first Harry Potter book, and must say that it needed some editing, IMHO. I would also say that it was only slightly better than many books I've recently edited. I say that to encourage us writers. I don't think there is a vast difference between wealth/greatness as a writer and being unpublished or less successful. So those who are out there trying, keep at it! But what's the difference? How can we improve our writing so that we, too, can make the big bucks like J.K. Rowling? I would suggest that the elements of fiction that seem to make the greatest difference in the popularity of novels--and hence in our financial success (and I know many of you do not write for that purpose--that's fine, I understand that, but this is written to those who want to tell stories to the masses)--are characterization and plot development. The technical aspects of pov are helpful in making our stories engrossing, but no one will be engrossed in them if we do not develop interesting characters and hatch intriguing plots. I wonder if the list might like to comment on these elements and see if the collective wisdom residing here (and you all have more of that than you are willing to admit) can help us to improve. Some specifics, please. Richard Hopkins - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 01:41:35 +0000 From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] BYU WDA Theatre Readings (Deseret News) Sunday, December 9, 2001 Theater openings include pair of one-man shows By Ivan M. Lincoln Deseret News theater editor STAGED READINGS of three original plays, all developed as part of BYU's highly acclaimed Writers/Directors/Actors (WDA) Workshop, will be presented Dec. 11-13 in the Nelke Experimental Theatre of the Harris Fine Arts Center. Dates and plays to be read are: =97 Tuesday: "For Name's Sake," by graduate student Char Nelson. =97 Wednesday: "Slaying the Greeble," a theater-for-young- audiences piece by faculty member Eric Samuelsen. =97 Thursday: "Let Me Call You Sweetheart," a romantic comedy by Tawnya Cazier, a playwright and recent BYU graduate. All performances begin at 5 p.m. and are free; the general public is welcome to attend. The class is composed of six writers, six directors and a handful of actors. It's team-taught by Samuelsen and Robert Nelson. =A9 2001 Deseret News Publishing Company _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 10:46:52 -0700 From: Thom Duncan Subject: Re: [AML] Pete EARLEY, _Prophet of Death_ (Review) Rich Hammett wrote: > On my returned missionary e-mail list, we recently had a discussion > about this same topic, sparked, of course by the religiously-motivated > events of 9/11/01. > > At least half the people participating in the discussion said that > they would kill anyone if told to by their prophet or priesthood > leader. They somehow thought this differentiated them from the > terrorists, because the returned missionaries were _right_. This is so frigtening a thought that I can hardly bring words to wrap around it. I've writtne a play about another set of Prophets of Death, the Lafferty Brothers who (they claim) received a revelation "hit list" of people to kill, two of which where their sister-in-law and her seventeen month old baby. Since it is a play, and not just an historical treatise, I explored the similarities between the call of the Lafferty brothers to kill and that of Nephi. In my play, the Lafferty's consider Nephi as having come off wanting because he had to be told three times to cut off Laban's head while they only had to be told once. > > I didn't read this list much in the last two months, so I apologize > if this has been discussed already. Tying it back to mormon lit, > does Deseret, for example, publish books that examine when the > "right" time to disobey a leader is? You'll go wanting if you try to find articles like that, at least in any Church publication over the last couple of decades. In the 50's, L Reuben Clark wrote a pretty good article giving suggestions on how we could tell if our leaders were giving us inspired counsel or their own opinions. I'll bet Bill Gates' tithing for one year that your returned missionary list buddies have never read the following: "The very words of the revelation (D&C 68:2-4) recognize that the Brethren may speak when they are not 'moved upon by the Holy Ghost,' yet only when they do so speak, as so 'moved upon' is what they say Scripture. No exceptions are given to this rule or principle. It is universal in its application. "The question is, how shall we know when the things they have spoken were said as they were 'moved upon by the Holy Ghost?' "I have given some thought to this question, and the answer thereto so far as I can determine is: We can tell when the speakers are 'moved upon by the Holy Ghost' only when we, ourselves, are 'moved upon by the Holy Ghost.' "In a way, this completely shifts the responsibility from them to us to determine when they so speak. "In considering the problem involved here, it should be in mind that some of the General Authorities have had assigned to them a special calling; they possess a special gift; they are sustained as prophets, seers, and revelators, which gives them a special spiritual endowment in connection with their teaching of the people. They have the right, the power, and authority to declare the mind and will of God to his people, subject to the over-all power and authority of the President of the Church. Others of the General Authorities are not given this special spiritual endowment and authority covering their teachings; they have a resulting limitation, and the resulting limitation upon their power and authority in teaching applies to every other officer and member of the church, for none of them is spiritually endowed as a prophet, seer, and revelator. Furthermore, as just indicated, the President of the Church has a further and special spiritual endowment in this respect, for he is the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator for the whole Church. "There are those who insist that unless the Prophet of the Lord declares, 'Thus saith the Lord,' the message may not be taken as a revelation. This is a false testing standard. For while many of our modern revelations as contained in the Doctrine and Covenants do contain these words, there are many that do not. Nor is it necessary that an actual voice be heard in order that a message from our Heavenly Father shall be a true revelation, as shown by revelations given in former dispensations, as well as in our own." ("When Are the Writings or Sermons of Church Leaders Entitled to the Claim of Scripture?", an address delivered to seminary and institute of religion personnel, BYU, July 7, 1954; see "Church News Section," Deseret News, July 31, 1954.) [Thom Duncan] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:29:16 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Story Beginnings (was: Harry Potter Books) D. Michael Martindale wrote: > >I believe there is no good excuse for starting a book out this way. Why >any author would think the reader should be willing to slog through a >lackluster beginning is beyond me. If it doesn't grab in the first few >pages--one way or another--I don't think the most exquisite writing on >earth in the following pages can justify a poor opening. I'm not sure I agree. This notion that a story should be engaging from the first few pages *sounds* like a safe enough bet as a universal principle of storytelling, but in practice, I'm not sure this is the case--though it may be that Michael broadens his statement enough with the phrase "one way or another" that it may hold true after all. But I'm not convinced even of that. I need to start by admitting that I think Chapter One of the first Harry Potter book (The Boy Who Lived) works very well. In trying to guess why others don't like this chapter, I think it may be because Rowling starts not with Harry as a character, but rather with a larger-focus introduction to the world Rowling has created and Harry's place within it--a historical introduction. Some people don't like that approach, but it's an eminently defensible one from the context of the worldbuilding-type fantasy genre in which Rowling is writing. Part of the promise with worldbuilding fantasy is that the author will create a richly detailed setting that is enjoyable and worth exploring in its own sake (if you like that sort of thing). Rowling begins to deliver on this promise from the very first chapter. If, on the other hand, the problem is not with this approach but rather with how it's carried out, then I can only say that I think the writing in this chapter is certainly on a par with what we find in the rest of the series... But back to the larger point. Michael is certainly right that many readers nowadays are willing to grant only a paragraph or a page or two for a story to engage their attention; then, if the story has failed to capture them, they go on to something else. But I don't think that's anything like a universal reaction. Indeed, I think that for some genres--such as worldbuilding fantasy (as opposed to swashbuckling fantasy, an entirely different type)--it's more common for readers to expect that it will take a *long* time for things to take off, and for them to allow that time. Many readers find Tolkien slow going, but that hasn't stopped him from being popular. And Tolkien's first chapter is arguably much worse than, say, Rowling's, from that point of view: It's *25 pages* long, it takes place 17 years before the rest of the story, it focuses on a character who all but vanishes for the rest of the book, and (worst of all) it continues in the silly vein of _The Hobbit_ without any real indications of the much more serious stuff that's to follow. No one, I say, who likes _The Lord of the Rings_ can possibly know it by the end of the first chapter (though one may, of course, like chapter 1 for other reasons). For that matter, some people don't think the book picks up until Frodo gets to Bree (160 pages in--I'm using the standard-sized three-volume paperback edition), or gets to Weathertop (200 pages), or reaches Rivendell (240). The fact that the book is so immensely popular despite that is evidence, in my view, that many readers--at least in this particular genre--are willing to allow time for the story to get going. Of course, part of the issue, as I noted previously, may be with that "one way or the other" Michael alludes to. In the case of a fantasy novel, it may be that all that is needed to hook the reader is a promise that eventually you *will* explore a world you come to love as the story unfolds. But I think in such cases it's often the promise of things to come, rather than anything that has happened so far, that keeps readers going. In fantasy, at least--and in other genres that typically take a great deal of space to develop, such as in-depth character development novels, or multi-generational epics--I don't believe most readers keep a running cost-benefit tally, and stop reading the minute the labor of reading exceeds the enjoyment they have so far received. Rather, I think they view the reading as a long-term investment, with a payoff that may not occur fully until after the book is finished. Such readers, if they stop reading at all, do so because they have lost faith in the writer--that the writer ever will repay the investment. Which can I suppose be viewed as a failure to engage the reader, but if so, it's of a very different type than simply not "grabbing" the reader in the first few pages. Reading a story, as I see it, is a lot like a nature hike. There's a place you want to go, because you've heard about it, or see it marked on a map, or you're driving along and a sign at the side of the road catches your eye. You get out. You see (in many cases) a sign telling you how long the trail is. Looking at the path, and the general terrain, you get an idea of how tough the hike is likely to be. Then, if you think you can spare the time and energy for the hike, and you believe you'll enjoy the experience, you take off. You don't stop every ten feet and ask yourself, is the scenery pretty yet? Rather, you keep going--at least a minimum period of time, perhaps until something makes you decide that you don't have the time to finish the path after all, or you start to believe the trail isn't taking you where you wanted to go. Certainly, if you get to the end of the trail and you never found the lake or waterfall or peak that was promised you, you may feel cheated. Or you may get there and discover that the waterfall isn't all that impressive, and the trail itself was pretty dreadful (since, after all, part of the point of most hikes is to enjoy yourself along the way, as well as to get somewhere), and decide that it really wasn't worth your time after all. But you don't expect that every step will be breathtaking. Jonathan Langford Speaking for myself, not the List jlangfor@pressenter.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 11:42:54 -0700 From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: Re: [AML] (Andrew's Poll) What's the Point? >In lines at grocery stores I read the covers of all the magazines. At > >banks I read the announcements of changes in their policies - even if >I >don't bank there. Ha! I thought I was the only one who read the policy statements of banks that I don't bank at :-) I read shampoo bottles too. We have a GIANT pile of books and magazines in the bathroom and piles of books all over the house. I would go insane with boredom in this wait-around-world if I didn't have a pile of books to read. All those "it'll just be five minutes" add up! One humorous thing I wouldn't have found if I didn't have this compulsion: there is a drink out there with 0's all down the "nutrition facts" section and when it first came out it actually said at the bottom, "Not a significant source of anything." (They have since deleted that statement.) :-) Marianne Hales Harding _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 15:40:58 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] SL Tribune Series on Utah "Cultural Divide" The Salt Lake Tribune has published an interesting, massive new series of articles on the "cultural divide" between Mormons and non-Mormons in Utah. It can be found at: http://www.sltrib.com/2001/dec/12092001/utah/utah.htm ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:42:37 -0800 From: "Jerry Tyner" Subject: RE: [AML] Story Beginnings (was: Harry Potter Books) I have to add my two cents to what Clark wrote here about lack luster beginnings. I picked up a book by Piers Anthony several years ago (first I had read by him) and it had won the British Fantasy Award for the year before (sorry - I don't remember the actual name of the award). I tried two or three times to get going on that book and finally I told myself there must be something about this to have won a distinguished award for fantasy. Once I got through he first few chapters I was hooked on this author and the first of the Magic of Xanth series. I got a little out of touch with the series after it got past 7 or 8 books but his Bio of a Space Tyrant series, Apprentice Adept (fantasy and SF combined) series, and Incarnations of Eternity series were all very good (my opinion of course).=20 The point is sometimes you have to slog through the first part of a book to understand the authors style and if it grabs you then you understand how to read his or her other works as well. One disclaimer. Not every author will appeal to all people. That goes for any book be it fiction, doctrinal, or other. Think of the Scriptures - who hasn't had to slog through the Isaiah portion of the Book of Mormon in 2 Nephi. Anyone who has read the entire Old Testament (I did one time while on my mission - hardest goal to finish I ever made) knows what it is to slog through certain parts. Where other parts of the Scriptures seem to grab and hold your heart mind and soul. Jerry Tyner=20 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 18:08:52 -0700 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: RE: [AML] Dahl (was: Harry Potter Movie) John Williams: > >Finally, think of Eric Snider. Eric has been accused more than once of >misanthropy, and yet (at least in my experience with him) he's one of the most >genuine, thoughtful, and sensitive people I know. Sure, he mocks people a lot >(I can recall several times when Eric has told me that I "have no butt"), but >it is never done maliciously. It's funny! I agree that if one is to think of me, one should do it "finally"; i.e., only after all other thought-worthy topics have been exhausted. Roald Dahl seems like the kind of person I would have enjoyed knowing. I agree with John's assessment of him: grouchy, cantankerous, or whatever, but still a nice guy. I picture Captain Moroni being approximately the same way: A great leader and spiritual giant, but DON'T MESS WITH HIM! Eric D. Snider P.S. John really has no butt. It's not even slanderous to say so; it's really true. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:20:55 -0800 From: jltyner@postoffice.pacbell.net Subject: Re:[AML] (Andrew's Poll) What's the Point? I have to read something everyday even if it's the back of a cereal box. I think I'd go insane otherwise. As lazy as I am about getting physical exercise I must get mental exercise and I'm losing too many brain cells to leave any to chance. For a long time I was mostly reading magazine articles but I've tried to get away from that because I felt I was shortening my literary attention span. I still read some articles and check internet newspapers and other news sites at least a few times a week to keep current. I like reading biographies because I'm curious about peoples' lives and times, how their personality was formed and why they did what they did. Especially when their actions had the effect of causing change to the societies in which they lived for good or ill and if these effects are still felt today. I like humor books, not so much joke books as humorous stories and anecdotes for no other than reason than I love to laugh. There is much in this world of sorrow and sometimes the ability to laugh takes us outside of ourselves to see the bigger picture. Besides, I need the endorphins. I once told my dad an irishman would rather lie than tell a dull story-he laughingly agreed. I don't generally like or read straight romances. Not LDS, general Christian or the type we at the library loving referred to as "Bodice Rippers". I'll read it if it has a historical context to it, usually about a real person because I love history and want to see if they've done their homework about the person and time besides being a good story. I like Anne Perry's Victorian murder mysteries, she knows the times, and I like her characters even if I have to slog through the first chapter or two to get to the good stuff. I feel I have neglected fictional novels for a long time. I just didn't feel there was much out there worth reading unless it was a classic. I however am repenting of that view especially since I am discovering some really good fiction in the LDS market and am starting to go through the stack I brought home from the AML conference. If fiction is well done it can take you away to other times and places, help you almost experience things you never have, or see things in a different way, expand your whole being in some strange way. For me Children's literature is the top of the line. I know some people look down their noses at it, but to be a good children's author you have to have imagination and have some remnant of the child-like wonder the world has for the young. You can't rely on what can be called "the obligatory bedroom scene", or too much violence and profanity. You have to know your audience and what will hold their attention, is appropriate to the general understanding of certain age groups, all the while while not talking down to them and trying to be entertaining and exciting. They and their parents can be a tough audience to please, but if you do you have their loyalty. I like all different kinds-read-a-louds, YA novels, chapter books and especially picture books. The right text and illustration in a picture book is enchanting. Maybe that's why I like writing in that category and collecting particular authors and antique picture books. I have pondered on why it seems Brother Brigham disdained novels. IMO, perhaps it was that life was short in the nineteenth century, work was hard and physically demanding and to him there was no time to dilly-dally on such things, stick to the scriptures, etc. Perhaps also novel reading was seen as a luxury of the idle rich, for who else would have the time? Although I wonder if I would have the chutzpah to argue with him I might point out certain scriptures to defend my position: D&C 93:24,53, D&C 130:19, and D&C 88:77-80 out of modern scripture and out of the Bible, Proverbs 4:7-"Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding." He'd probably have some sharp comebacks with other scriptures, but hey I'd have tried. Finally, I think reading both fiction and non-fiction makes for a more well rounded person, open to the spirit and compassionate, able to defend their own faith while respecting others. I read to live-I know no other way. Kathy Tyner, Orange County, CA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #542 ******************************