From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #545 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, December 13 2001 Volume 01 : Number 545 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 15:38:40 -0800 From: harlowclark@juno.com Subject: Re: [AML] Story Beginnings On Mon, 10 Dec 2001 16:42:37 Jerry Tyner writes: > One disclaimer. Not every author will appeal to all people. That > goes for any book be it fiction, doctrinal, or other. Think of the > Scriptures - who hasn't had to slog through the Isaiah portion of > the Book of Mormon in 2 Nephi. Anyone who has read the entire > Old Testament (I did one time while on my mission - hardest > goal to finish I ever made) knows what it is to slog through > certain parts. I had a seminary teacher who said that after reading every word in the Old Testament he promised the Lord he would never do that again. For me the slog through book was Numbers, with its endless lists of names. I hope to read the whole OT, Apocrypha included, next year. (If I read 7 1/2 pages a day I can read the whole Standard Works.) I picked up William Tyndale's translation of The Pentateuch 20 years ago at a 25 cents a pound sale at the BYU Bookstore (it cost 75 cents) and plan to start with that, then read KJV for some books and other translations for others. (I should have Apostelgeschichte finished in my Luthertext of Das Neue Testament by the end of the month. It's a good way to study scriptures, reading them in a language that's only partly familiar. I know the Gospels well enough that I could recognize what I was reading. I haven't read Acts since 9th grade so it's not as familiar. I haven't read the Letters since 9th grade either, so this could be a real challenge.) Tyndale's translation was a main source for King James' translators, so it will be interesting to see what he says. I noticed one thing when I first bought the book, and commented on it in priesthood meeting. The word "weakedness" is his spelling for "wickedness." Assuming that his spelling represents the word's etymology, wickedness is a weakened condition. I suspect I may like the lists of names better this time through--simply because I may know more about language. Still, reading lists of names is not going to be easy because there's no narrative thread to care about, but I'm not sure it's a bad thing to slog through something. Every word in the scriptures (and elsewhere) can teach us something. Harlow S. Clark - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:49:37 -0600 From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] A Curious Letter from Horizon? >I'm hesitant to pay money for editing services. If my book was good enough, >wouldn't the publisher asign one of their own editors to work with me? YES. They would accept your manuscript, offer you a contract to negotiate and sign, and assign you an editor. All the "name dropping" about his personal life and the church makes me >leary. I feel like I'm being buttered up somehow. Isn't that the way scam >artists work? >---------------- >Any info on Larry Brady or Brent Hendrickson would be appreciated. I have no knowledge of either of these people, but several things about this do *scream* "scam." First and foremost, they are asking an author to PAY money for editing services. This is always the mark of a company/individual out to make a buck. They are also NOT a literary agency, who are the ONLY people you should ever pay money to for helping you with your writing career--and the way agents work is that they don't get paid until you do. Agents take a % of your royalties after they are earned. They do not ask for money up front (if they are a reputable company.) Agents also never come to you begging to take on your writing if you are unknown and unpublished. The other huge clues here are: handwriting lined stationery name-dropping personal family details None of this is professional. Nor is it standard business practice. Professionals do not bully you into thinking they are a church big-shot or write handwritten notes telling you about their family life. Professional editors do not solicit services individually; they advertise in the paper. I would thank them for reading the MS, thanks for saying the work "inspired" him (if I even went that far) and inform them I was not interested, thank you very much. >Is it possible that this person writes letters of this sort to writers of >rejected manuscripts to drum up business for his editor friend? He made it >clear that I shouldn't contact Horizon, but only him. Then it is clear to me that what this author *should* do is photocopy the entire letter and send it to the President of Horizon with a note of explanation, so he may see for himself what his employees are doing behind his back. It sounds to me that this individual is hoping to prey on a novice author's lack of experience in the business end of publishing, by using the "buttering-up" techniques listed above (which BTW, additionally sickens me that they use Church references to do it). Only someone brand-new to the business part of submitting, editing, and publishing could possibly be sucked in by such a technique. Congratulations that this author is naturally suspicious. The bottom line is, if you believe in your writing, NEVER pay someone else to edit it. Shop the MS around until it finds a home that will pay YOU. If it is good, it WILL get published. Linda Adams Author, _Prodigal Journey_ ================ Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:57:32 -0600 From: Linda Adams Subject: [AML] ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ in MCPLibrary Hi, I hate to toot my horn but I will because this is exciting. To me. This summer I called our local library system to see if they would carry my book. They said they would buy and evaluate a copy and let me know. They did decide to keep it, and it is now cataloged and available for checkout. What surprised me was that they ordered FIFTEEN copies, one for each library unit in the Kansas City Metropolitan Area. Wow! Somebody must have liked it! And these are by and large not LDS people, either. It's in the Mid-Continent Public Library, for any of you out my way who are interested. I can't tell you how cool it is to type my name in on a library search engine and come up as an Author. That is way cooler even than walking into a bookstore and finding my book on display. I feel official. :-D Linda ============ Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:07:56 -0700 From: "Todd Petersen" Subject: RE: [AML] Story Beginnings I think that the advice to make a catchy beginning is well-intended, but it backfires into cute, self-aware garbage sometimes. I tossed out so many stories at the Cimarron Review because they were simply trying too hard. Hemingway's advice was best: begin with a simple declarative sentence and go from there. Faulkner's "The Bear" and "Old Man" are about the only exceptions to this maxim that seem to work for me. The opening of Michael Ondaatje's THE ENGLISH PATIENT and IN THE SKIN OF A LION. Are amazing openings. Simply stunning. - -- Todd Robert Petersen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:30:23 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] MOORE & CAMPBELL, _From Hell_ (Was: Mormonism as Distinctive) An older discussion we had on the list talked about the appeal of the "deeper" doctrines in LDS literature: how the more "Gnostic" teachings can be especially effective in storytelling. I've just finished reading "From Hell", the graphic novel by Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell. It's ostensibly about the "Jack the Ripper" murders, but to say it's just about murder is like saying "Moby Dick" is just about whale-hunting. Moore has created a genuine epic that includes speculations on religion and mythology, as well as gut-churning horror. It's based on an amazing amount of research, with extensive annotations at the back of the book. (The recent movie version starring Johnny Depp and Heather Graham is a shamefully dumbed-down abridgement. It would take a TV miniseries to really do justice to the graphic novel, but the filmmakers didn't even try.) Moore's solution to the killings involves a convoluted conspiracy featuring Freemasons and Queen Victoria. Rantings in 19th-century literature about Masonic plots are similar to the paranoia of similar anti-Mormon literature., so you can take this aspect of the story with a grain of salt (It resembles Oliver Stone's "JFK".) But on the whole, "From Hell" is a mind-blowing exploration of the "fourth dimesnsion"--the inner architecture of history. Check it out. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 18:53:54 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] LANSBURY and THE MORMON TABERNACLE CHOIR, _The Joy of Christmas_ Last weekend our family attended the program in the Conference Center at Temple Square in Salt Lake, "The Joy of Christmas", featuring Angela Lansbury and the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. Here are a few quick observations. (1) The human scale is easily lost in the Conference Center. It's such a huge place that only the biggest, most spectacular events should be staged there. This show qualified because of the large orchestra and the choir, but if it weren't for the huge TV screens on the walls most of the visual impact would be lost. Providentially, the spirit picks up the slack. (2) The Mo Tab has never sounded crisper and more forceful than under Mack Wilberg's arrangements and directions. They are genuinely thrilling. (3) The crowd greeted Angela Lansbury like a beloved old aunt or friend. She sang some popular tunes, like "Beauty and the Beast." One song she sang gave me a little frisson. It was Stephen Sondheim's gorgeous "Not While I'm Around", from "Sweeney Todd." She dedicated it to children who needed to be reassured for their safety after the 9/11 attacks. That is the literal meaning of the lyrics "No one's going to harm you/not while I'm around." Those who are familiar with "Sweeney Todd" know, however, that it's a blackly comical musical filled with mayhem and death. The characters involved with the song come to terrible ends, so "Not While I'm Around" becomes chillingly ironic, in context. Plus it was entertaining to hear the choir crooning in the background the line, "Demons are prowling everywhere." The program is being telecast all this week on KBYU-TV, if you want to catch it. It's a nice annual tradition and I hope they keep it up. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Check out Yahoo! Shopping and Yahoo! Auctions for all of your unique holiday gifts! Buy at http://shopping.yahoo.com or bid at http://auctions.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 15:17:52 +1100 From: "Covell, Jason" Subject: RE: [AML] Harry Potter Books I've been following the discussion about the Harry Potter series in general, and especially people's reactions to the opening of the first book. I remember being told by someone more cinema-literate than I am that there is a kind of dictum about the beginning of movies - you can only afford to bore (or confuse) your audience for the first 10 minutes, because that's how long they'll stay before they start walking out. Plenty of movies work along these lines; before even the opening credits roll you're plunged into the middle of a scene where you haven't a clue who everyone is, who the good guys & bad guys are, what on earth is going on etc. Eventually things become clearer, but the point is that the movie feeds off the dramatic tension of _not_ knowing, and quite often there are details shown or hinted at that only become resolved at the movie's denouement. [The interesting thing to me is that Joanne Rowling is a very cinematic writer anyway. Lots of action, dialogue is very much a device to advance the plot rather than dwell on character, little descriptive or visual narrative beyond what establishes character quickly or, again, advance the plot. A lot of her scenes come across as big set pieces that seem to be framed in her imagination from a quasi-cinematic perspective. It was hardly surprising then that Hollywood found the subject matter irresistible.] I suppose it must be asked then, can you actually do this in a novel the way you can in a movie? It would be easy to argue no, that readers are much fussier about what they are willing to commit themselves to: one or two pages of flat, uninvolving prose or impenetrable ravings would be quite enough to make most people close up a book forever. It's different if you've forked out your money and settled yourself in a comfy seat in a big dark theatre. You can frame that question in a number of ways, and I don't intend to offer much of an answer. The first time I opened up Harry Potter and started reading, I admit that I did find the opening - well, somewhat flat. I read the emotional reactions of Dumbledore, McGonagall and Hagrid to the deaths of Harry's parents, as well as the rejoicing of the wizarding community to the downfall of Voldemort, and it just didn't connect with me at first. (That impression, while still understandable to me, no longer seems tenable: I now think the cautious opening is vitally necessary, both in tone and content.) And yet, as Annette Lyon has pointed out, the backstory which is established right at the start, and grows and enlarges throughout all the books published so far, is magnificent in the way it foreshadows (by hints or broad brushstrokes) everything that unfolds in the entire series. It is amazing how Rowling, rather than running the backstory elements dry (many of which seem to be straightforward), manages to thicken the brew to such an extent that by the end of the fourth book I feel I know less fundamentally about what happened than when I first began! [Mormon sidetrack: I sometimes like to imagine Harry as a kid who enters Young Men and receives the Aaronic Priesthood (learns of his wizarding powers). As he goes along from year to year he discovers that the gospel (the salvation wrought by his parents' sacrifice) is both consistent with the simple version he learned at first in Primary, but also more subtle, complex and world-shaking than he imagined - enough so to keep High Priest Groups (the mature adult world of wizarding) expounding and debating ad infinitum.] Consistent with all this is the deepening maturity of the books themselves. I can only say to those who have read some or all of the first book and remain unimpressed, keep reading. While I can look back now and admire the first book for many things - the joy of exposition and first discovery, the meetings of friends and mentors - it really pales beside the later books, especially the third and fourth (the third is actually my favourite by a slim margin, but the ending of the fourth is an breathtaking whizzbanger). This is why even all the queues and crowds seen so far are nothing in comparison to what will come with the publication of the fifth book! The manipulation of dramatic tension is, in my opinion, one of Joanne Rowling's greatest gifts. Along with the remarkable control of interweaving plot elements (many of which manage to span all four books), this is the engine that keeps the series ticking. What noone seemed to make clear to me before I read the books is that the books are essentially thrillers; however, the mysteries and dangers faced by Harry and his friends (and mentors) are not artificial devices that intrude into their worlds (as with many serial adventures, such as whodunnits or spy novels), but are essential to their personal development and maturation, having been set in motion with all the other elements of the backstory. And add to that, Rowling's power of imagination... I can't help turning in my mind to the spectacle of a juggler with several balls in the air, performing various fantastic routines; and then watching more and more balls added, without any dropping, and the new balls mingling with the old as the patterns become increasingly complex. Jason Covell ************************************************************************** This message is intended for the named addressee(s) only. It may be confidential. If you receive this message in error please notify us immediately by return mail and delete the message (and any attachments). Neither the NSW Department of Community Services nor the NSW Department of Ageing, Disability & Home Care are responsible for any changes to this message, or the consequences of any changes to this message. ************************************************************************** - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 21:39:07 -0700 From: "Clark Draney" Subject: RE: [AML] Story Beginnings Michael wrote: >For me, the art is in the story itself, and the words mere vehicles >for conveying that story. For me, it's the journey that I care about, >and my vehicle only needs to be comfortable and spacious and easy >to operate. I don't want my vehicle distracting me from the sightseeing. That's just the thing, isn't it? words as a vehicle AREN'T easy to operate. On the contrary, they are notorious for bad handling, slow acceleration, sudden stalls, and the airbag sometimes goes off in your face. >So for me, difficult beginnings or excessively literary or poetic prose >is just a distraction. I want to read the story, not admire or fight >through the words. While I agree that an author (especially one not yet published) must consider whether the editor and eventually the reader will "get it" quickly and easily, I don't agree that difficult (lets say "demanding" instead) writing is merely a distraction. If the *destination* is all that counts, then almost any vehicel will get you there. If the *journey* does count, then the vehicle must suit the terrain. And amazingly, this particular vehicle--language--sometimes takes off on its own, carrying us into vistas and visions we hardly dared hope for. >It so happens that the storytelling point of view has the upper hand in >oday's environment, because that philosophy is what has the greatest >chance of selling books to today's audience. Therefore I tend to promote >strategies that facilitate that approach as if they were gospel--they >are, if you want sales. If you don't, then never mind. As a bottom line, this works fine. I can't, however, dismiss the complex, intricate, amazing beauty of some writing because I didn't slip in to it effortlessly. Clark - --------- Read, read, read. Read everything-- trash, classics, good and bad, and see how they do it. Just like a carpenter who works as an apprentice and studies the master. Read! You'll absorb it. Then write. If it is good, you'll find out. If it's not, throw it out the window. -William Faulkner - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:56:47 -0600 From: lajackson@juno.com Subject: [AML] Re: Story Beginnings D. Michael Martindale: Harry Potter didn't grab me because I didn't read anything in the first chapter and a half that said to me, "Here's why this fantasy will be fresh and interesting and different from anything you've already read." A kid who's never read anything is likely to react much differently to what's there than I. _______________ Being grossly occupied with more important things to do (i.e., lazy), I threatened to wait until Harry Potter showed up at the dollar theatre (misnomer -- it's $1.50) to go see it. But, when my precious children were willing to fork over the big bucks on opening night (ok, $4.50 on Saturday afternoon, day two), I decided to go along. After all, as a caring father I had kept myself informed on the nefarious effects this story would have on a God-fearing, Christian home, and had decided to judge for myself. So I saw it. Twice. (One of the children couldn't make it that Saturday, and someone had to go with him to see it, and so ... Then, I noticed on this Very List a haunting and absolute boredom associated with the beginning of the book. Since the film began in a most interesting way, I leaped to the conclusion that the first chapter had simply been left out of the movie. Curious now, I decided it would be worth the investment to read the actual first chapter of the book and see for myself if these things were true. Right on page 1, the Dursley's had a secret, and their greatest fear was that somebody would discover it. On page 2, Mr. Dursley notices a cat reading a map. Page 3 is filled with strangely dressed people ... people in cloaks, whispering. By page 9, some mysterious fellow in a colorful robe has clicked this little do hickey and the nearest street lamp went out with a little pop. Twelve times, in fact. A huge motorcycle fell out of the air and landed on the road in front of them on page 14. These are things that piqued my interest. I was not bored at all. I was not even put out by the Out-Putter because I noticed it worked differently and much more effectively in reverse. He clicked it once, and twelve balls of light sped back to their street lamps. To me, this was fascinating, if childlike, stuff. And there were owls and other unusual sounding things. I wasn't able to stop after the first chapter. As an adult, I will admit to being terribly disappointed that a scene on page 40 was not included in the film. It was the mailbox closing scene, Uncle Vernon, trying to knock in a nail with the piece of fruitcake Aunt Petunia had just brought home. (I thought it very funny in passing, because I had recently heard that fruitcake could not be mailed this season, since it is considered lethal.) But I believe the key to the success of the book was the self-fulfilling prophecy on page 13 where, after the cat turned into Professor McGonagall, she said, "He'll be famous -- a legend -- ... there will be books written about Harry -- every child in our world will know his name!" Personally, I found it to be a grabbing first chapter, on many different levels. Even if the staircases did swing around a wee bit. Larry Jackson ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:15:34 -0700 From: "Clark Draney" Subject: RE: [AML] Story Beginnings Again, responding to my friend, Michael: >Why "slog" when there are a million books out there >that will draw me in effortlessly? I make an exception to that rule only >if I have strong testimonials convincing me it will be worth it--and >even then I don't always make it. Sometimes the payoff comes weeks or months later when you see how a book fits into a historical context, for example, and pushes you into a new appreciation of an author or a text or a story. >No, I don't have to slog through it. I can throw the book across the >room and pick up something else. Won't you miss a lot of good stuff by having that (it "grabbiness") as your only (or at least primary) criteria for deciding whether to finish a text? But then, none of us have time to get to all the the good stuff. Maybe _a_ criteria is a good thing. This one just makes me a little uncomfortable (speaking primarily as a reader). Clark Draney - ------------ Everywhere I go, I'm asked if I think the universities stifle writers. My opinion is that they don't stifle enough of them. There's many a best seller that could have been prevented by a good teacher. -Flannery O'Conner _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:10:43 -0700 From: Barbara Hume Subject: [AML] Reading in the Bath (was: Andrew's Poll: What's the Point?) At 12:06 AM 12/8/01, you wrote: >By the way, I've solved almost all of my "what to read while waiting in >line" problems with my Palm Pilot - all but that pesky shower issue. When >they release a waterproof PDA with a shower-mounted stand, I'll be >completely set. A woman on one of my writers' lists says she puts hers into a ZipLoc bag when she's reading in the tub. barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 22:57:08 -0800 From: jltyner@postoffice.pacbell.net Subject: [AML] Sheri Dew (Advice for Authors) Did anyone else see the article about Sheri Dew speaking to aspiring authors at a BYU workshop? I saw this on the Church site, LDS.org, having linked it from the BYU website. I'm curious to see how her advice struck my fellow AMLers. So what think ye? What say you on the matter? Kathy Tyner, Orange County, CA SISTER SHERI L. DEW ADVISES ASPIRING AUTHORS See http://www.newsnet.byu.edu/story/35578 Link Sheri Dew, executive vice president of Deseret Book and second counselor in the Relief Society general presidency, recently offered guiding principles to aspiring authors seeking publication. Dew advised the group to write if they have something to say, if they can tell a great story, and if they can capture the publisher's attention. "Some just want to publish for the sake of publishing," Dew said. "You need to have a fresh insight. Having the 'aha' factor, or being able to put a subject in a new light, is crucial in becoming published. You have the Holy Ghost. Get the skill, and you will help people bump into the gospel." - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 05:13:00 -0700 From: James Wilson Subject: Re: [AML] Critiques and Writer's Dreams It's the difference between competition and opposition, as the Yorgason brother might say. There is competative criticism, which intends to break down and destroy, and oppositional criticism, which dwells on both weakness and strength--the greater the opposition the greater the struggle, and the better the work. There is a big difference between the "delightful task...to teach the young idea how to shoot" and the sort of criticism that masquerades as constructive. To criticize properly one read the person as well as the work, and no matter how bad the work there is always something praiseworthy to dwell on...well maybe not always. It is always imperative to find something true and good to praise, otherwise criticism is Shiva instead of Vishnu. As far as an LDS-themed book needing to be twice as good as usual, I beg to differ. In the current climate for such a book to be very successful it would require true greatness. We're talking Sir Walter Scott or Charles Dickens and maybe not even them. Imagine a Jane Austen novel with LDS themes--it ain't going to work commercially. Nobody would believe that people like us even exist any more. So many are so convinced that piety is a sham that they don't believe it even when it's obvious and right out in the open. I think people today have a great longing for goodness, exceeding that which has been in most times before, but they're terrified to believe. When you've had the Big Lie practiced upon you a bazillion times it's a miracle if you're only skeptical instead of cynical. I invented my own religion for my books and though any Mormon will instantly recognize much of it there's plenty of Catholicism and Zoroastrianism and Islam to obscure it as well. For any who are attempting this Herculean task, I can only say that I salute your courage. James Wilson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 09:59:14 -0700 From: "Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Critiques and Writer's Dreams > The LDS tie in is this: LDS writers are going to have to be twice as > good as everyone else in order to make it in a national market with LDS > themed work. Twice as good. This is not something that we've talked > about much here. I think that sometimes we think that we need to be > equal with other writers, but that's not true at all. Writing from a > Christian perspective is an albatross around a writer's neck that few > writers can cut loose. You are absolutely correct, Todd. And it's not just "writing from a Christian Perspective." It is "writing from a Mormon perspective" that is TWICE the albatross. And maybe THRICE! (A pretty heavy bird to carry.) And because "good" is so subjective, the "goods" are just flying around like very heavy albatrosses, not landing anywhere, not finding a ship to sit on. If I were to pick someone who might DO IT, though, I'd pick you. If you will notice, ALL of the great Mormon authors who have written for the national market (Levi, Neal LaBute, Brady Udall, etc.) don't really look like Mormons anymore. Marilyn Brown - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:59:33 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Re: A Curious Letter from Horizon? (comp 1) [MOD: This is a compilation post.] >From Turk325@aol.com Wed Dec 12 14:54:44 2001 << He made it clear that I shouldn't contact Horizon, but only him. >> This *really* sounds like a scam. Contact Horizon. Tell them everything you've told us. (At the very least, this guy is stealing from his employer. He took your manuscript.) Kurt Weiland. - ------------------------------------- >From marianne_hales_harding@hotmail.com Wed Dec 12 14:58:40 2001 Sounds like a scam to me--I felt inspired to take your money? Don't talk to Horizon about it? Handwrite the whole thing? Odd. Run, do not walk, to the nearest exit. Marianne Hales Harding - ------------------------------------- >From parisander@freeport.com Wed Dec 12 15:01:26 2001 Jana, [MOD: Not actually her but her friend.] I don't know for sure, but a few months ago another list I am on was talking about an editor named Brady who seemed to be running a scam. I think the first thing you should do is contact Horizon. If this man aquired your manuscript while it was in their care they would be liable. Smells like scam to me. Paris Anderson - -------------------------------------- >From sammiejustesen@msn.com Wed Dec 12 15:57:58 2001 I believe I met Larry Brady at the League of Utah Writers Roundup this past September. He's lives in Ogden and is a free lance editor who's just started as an agent. He was meeting with prospective clients at the writing workshop. I have his business card somewhere. Anyway, I think this is probably the same Larry Brady, but I can't tell you how legitimate he is. As for the handwritten letter -- it sounds highly suspicious to me, for whatever that's worth. On the other hand, I don't believe most publishers will spend their resources editing a manuscript. Sammie Justesen sammiejustesen@msn.com www.thewritersroost.com - ----------------------------------- >From rwilliams@english.usu.edu Wed Dec 12 16:06:09 2001 Jana writes: >I'm hesitant to pay money for editing services. If my book was good enough, >wouldn't the publisher asign one of their own editors to work with me? I'm not in the publishing business, but it sounds like a scam to me. If he really wants to publish it, let him publish it (and pay for it). I wouldn't give the guy a dime. - --John Williams. - ------------------------------------------ >From eskarstedt@sonici.com Wed Dec 12 16:26:36 2001 Speaking from life experience only (I've not had a novel published nor ever even sent one in) I'd not only be leary of any publishing advice this guy gives you, I'd be nervous that he has your home address. Rewrite your manuscript, by hand, for editing? Come on. What a whacko. Does he really work for Horizon, anyone? Ethan Skarstedt - ------------------------------------------- >From cloudhill@yahoo.com Wed Dec 12 21:35:58 2001 Jana, I would contact Horizon directly and ask if they employ a person by that name, Brent H., and I would also tell them that he has contacted you, and explain his letter. This smells so fishy, the Great Salt Lake smells like roses compared to it. Dallas Robbins cloudhill@hotmail.com - ---------------------------------------------- >From rrhopkins@email.com Thu Dec 13 01:09:57 2001 Jana Remy wrote: > A friend of mine from ANWA (American Night Writers), asked me to forward > this query to AML-List: (snip) > Any info on Larry Brady or Brent Hendrickson would be appreciated. Brent Hendrickson is the pressman at Horizon Publishers. You were quite right to guess that he does not read manuscripts for them. He is a good personal friend of mine and a very nice fellow, though he does not always choose the right things to say and I wouldn't necessarily rely on his judgment about rewrites. Larry Brady runs a legitimate editorial service called Impact Manuscripts (I believe that's the name). I have personally done some editing for Larry's clients. BTW, the book he wrote was published by Horizon, not Deseret, and his Ph.D. is in Family Counseling, but he's a good editor. He has edited for Horizon and for Gibbs Smith. No single editor catches everything, but he is an exceptionally good editor of non-fiction. I don't know how good he is on fiction right now, but I did coach him a bit when he was at Horizon, and he's had a lot of experience. Richard Hopkins - ---------------------------------------- - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 13:28:18 -0800 From: "Richard R. Hopkins" Subject: Re: [AML] A Curious Letter from Horizon? I don't blame Linda for any of the statements made below, but since I know these people personally, I can assure you that, as clumsy as Brent Hendrickson can be, he is NOT a scam artist and neither is Larry Brady. That Larry is trying to make a buck is, obviously, true. But that's what many professional editorial services do. Many writers do, legitimately, pay editors to help them edit their manuscripts. These are not manuscripts that would get a publisher's attention (and therefore their editorial help) at the stage they are in, but which, with a little help, could get a publisher's attention. Let's be careful here before we fly off and do damage to the reputations of perfectly legitimate businessmen. Thanks. Richard R. Hopkins - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Adams" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2001 2:49 PM Subject: Re: [AML] A Curious Letter from Horizon? > > >I'm hesitant to pay money for editing services. If my book was good enough, > >wouldn't the publisher asign one of their own editors to work with me? > > YES. > They would accept your manuscript, offer you a contract to negotiate and > sign, and assign you an editor. > > All the "name dropping" about his personal life and the church makes me > >leary. I feel like I'm being buttered up somehow. Isn't that the way scam > >artists work? > >---------------- > >Any info on Larry Brady or Brent Hendrickson would be appreciated. > > I have no knowledge of either of these people, but several things about > this do *scream* "scam." > > First and foremost, they are asking an author to PAY money for editing > services. This is always the mark of a company/individual out to make a buck. > > They are also NOT a literary agency, who are the ONLY people you should > ever pay money to for helping you with your writing career--and the way > agents work is that they don't get paid until you do. Agents take a % of > your royalties after they are earned. They do not ask for money up front > (if they are a reputable company.) Agents also never come to you begging to > take on your writing if you are unknown and unpublished. > > The other huge clues here are: > handwriting > lined stationery > name-dropping > personal family details > > None of this is professional. Nor is it standard business practice. > Professionals do not bully you into thinking they are a church big-shot or > write handwritten notes telling you about their family life. Professional > editors do not solicit services individually; they advertise in the paper. > > I would thank them for reading the MS, thanks for saying the work > "inspired" him (if I even went that far) and inform them I was not > interested, thank you very much. > > >Is it possible that this person writes letters of this sort to writers of > >rejected manuscripts to drum up business for his editor friend? He made it > >clear that I shouldn't contact Horizon, but only him. > > Then it is clear to me that what this author *should* do is photocopy the > entire letter and send it to the President of Horizon with a note of > explanation, so he may see for himself what his employees are doing behind > his back. > > It sounds to me that this individual is hoping to prey on a novice author's > lack of experience in the business end of publishing, by using the > "buttering-up" techniques listed above (which BTW, additionally sickens me > that they use Church references to do it). Only someone brand-new to the > business part of submitting, editing, and publishing could possibly be > sucked in by such a technique. Congratulations that this author is > naturally suspicious. > > The bottom line is, if you believe in your writing, NEVER pay someone else > to edit it. Shop the MS around until it finds a home that will pay YOU. If > it is good, it WILL get published. > > Linda Adams > Author, _Prodigal Journey_ > > ================ > > > > Linda Adams > adamszoo@sprintmail.com > http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #545 ******************************