From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #676 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, April 12 2002 Volume 01 : Number 676 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:40:41 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Box Office Report April 5 At 12:21 AM 4/10/02, you wrote: >But I simply MUST say something about the plot. It >features a rather unique scientific device in the form of a watch that >apparently freezes time around the person wearing it. In actuality, it >speeds up time immediately around the person wielding the device that >everything around him or her seems to be frozen in time. It's an unusual >science fictional plot device, and, as far as I know, it is an idea that has >never been featured in any movie. There was a movie called "The Girl, the Gold Watch, and Everything" with Pam Dawber and the yummy Robert Hayes. It featured a watch that functioned in this way. As I remember, the villain was Jill Ireland, Charles Bronson's wife. Barbara R. Hume Provo, Utah - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 14:46:53 -0600 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: RE: [AML] Blogging - ---Original Message From: Eric D. Dixon > I think that the media was more afraid that ubiquitous > amateur content might make traditional media irrelevent > precisely because they didn't think of the filtration issue. [snip] Precisely the point I was making. Good insights and if mass-media had grasped that they could have initiated changes a lot sooner and avoided the disdain and pain they are experiencing now. They've spent a long time trying to broaden their audience and they're having a tough time adapting to the narrow audience concerns brought about by the opening of the distribution channels. Jacob Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2002 21:31:39 -0700 From: Jeff Needle Subject: [AML] SILLITO & STAKER, _Mormon Mavericks_ (Review) Review ====== Title: Mormon Mavericks -- Essays on Dissent Author: John Sillito and Susan Staker, eds. Publisher: Signature Books Year Published: 2002 (forthcoming at the time of this review) Number of Pages: 388 Binding: Trade paperback ISBN: 1-56085-154-6 Price: $21.95 Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle (This will be an abbreviated review by necessity. The volume I have on hand is a pre-publication sampler, containing four of the 13 chapters that comprise the full volume. I look forward anxiously to obtaining the complete book upon publication.) One need look no further than the title to know what this book is all about -- dissent within Mormonism. As most students of Mormon history know all too well, Mormonism has a long tradition of dissent within its ranks. "Mormon Mavericks" presents the stories of 13 of the most influential dissidents in the history of the Church. Here is a listing of the chapter titles, each being an essay by a prominent scholar of Mormonism: 1. From Apostle to Apostate: The Personal Struggle of Amasa Mason Lymon 2. John E. Page: Apostle of Uncertainty 3. Sarah M. Pratt: The Shaping of an Apostate 4. William Smith, 1811-93: Problematic Patriarch 5. The Stenhouses and the Making of a Mormon Image 6. King James Strang: Joseph Smith's Successor? 7. The Alienation of an Apostle from His Quorom: The Moses Thatcher Case 8. Fawn McKay Brodie and Her Quest for Independence 9. Juanita Brooks as a Mormon Dissenter 10. Thomas Stuart Ferguson and Book of Mormon Archaeology 11. Sterling M. McMurrin: A Heretic but Not an Apostate 12. Samuel Wooley Taylor: Maverick Mormon Historian 13. DNA Mormon: D. Michael Quinn Chapters 1, 3, 5 and 10 were included in the sampler. Let it be said from the outset that there is an acknowledged bias among some in Mormonism against anything that comes from Signature Books. Its willingness to release cutting-edge works has placed it in a somewhat orbital position in Mormon publishing. Sometimes described as a "liberal" press, and even, at times, heretical, its appeal tends to be to a smaller audience than its books truly deserve. "Mormon Mavericks" is a case in point. Given the dynamic title, and the publisher, it is unlikely to attract the kind of audience that it merits. Within its pages (insofar as I could determine from the sampler) are found rare, and instructive, nuggets of Mormonism's past. It reveals a sometimes disturbing (in its revelation of character flaws and subtle intrigue, for example), but always ultimately redemptive (where the Church, in the end, triumphs over its own weaknesses), view of Mormonism's more colorful characters. The chapter on Sarah M. Pratt is a good example. First wife of Orson Pratt, we learn from this chapter of Sarah's journey into, and finally out of, polygamy. While desiring to exercise obedience to both her husband and the Prophet, she finally comes to terms with the earthy side of plural marriage, and finds her objections override her loyalty. And while Orson's frequent absences from his family contribute to the final dissolution of that family, a larger picture of devoted Church service arises. Not that Orson was a sterling character; he, too, had serious flaws. But the institution of the Church survives even the breakdown of one of its most prominent families. Chapter 10, dealing with Thomas Stuart Ferguson, takes us through his own personal quest for historical evidence for the Book of Mormon. While his quest ultimately fails (disappointment with an attempt to verify the Book of Abraham translation leads him back to a more realistic view of evidences for the Book of Mormon), Ferguson never forsakes the Church he loves. This chapter is a good example of how the essayists (in this case Stan Larson) are careful to balance their presentations with real scrutiny of the claims of the dissenters: In what he called the "Plant Life Test," Ferguson presented quotations from the Book of Mormon mentioning barley, figs, grapes, and wheat, then attached the word "none" next to a list of each of these plants in order to indicate that no known evidence supports their existence in Mesoamerica. He continued: "This negative score on the plant-life test should not be treated too lightly. An abundance of evidence supporting the existence of these plants has been found in other parts of the world of antiquity. The existence of numerous non-Book-of-Mormon plants (maize, lima beans, tomatoes, squash, etc.) has been supported by abundant archaeological findings...Art portrayals in ceramics, murals, and sculptured works -- of ancient plant life - -- are fairly commonplace." Ferguson may have been less than fair in this assessment since neither "figs" nor "grapes" are found other than in biblical quotations... (p. 264) One is reminded of the challenges that faced B.H. Roberts when he attempted a vigorous defense of the Book of Mormon. Encountering problems in his defense, he managed to balance his difficulties with his love for the book and for the Church that has that book as its cornerstone. Another example can be found in the chapter on the Stenhouses. Elizabeth Stenhouse, having abandoned polygamy and retreated from her association with Mormonism, penned a shrill volume titled "Tell It All," offering a first-hand view of the problems associated with the practice of Plural Marriage. Pages 114-15 detail her editing of her book for a subsequent edition, producing "less of a memoir and more of an indictment. Some of her own personal foibles were expurgated and the topics required of a standard anti-Mormon primer were added..." "'Tell It All' left no doubt that Mormonism was a trail of tears. Yet her testimony was by no means consistent..." And what follows is a recitation of the inconsistencies in her story, casting doubt on her ability to honestly relate the facts. I don't know that any of us can appreciate the trials that faced the early pioneers. What remarkable lives they led! But they were, after all, real lives, lived with real people, and confronted real problems. Some fell far short of the ideal of perfection that some histories may present. And so the need to tell the other side of the story. >From what I could gather from the sampler, "Mormon Mavericks" is a fine work of historical importance to students of Mormon history. While much of the material may be gathered from other sources -- and indeed, the articles are well footnoted and documented -- having them in a single volume allows the reader to survey the history of dissent in Mormonism in an easy to read, non-threatening manner. I do have one comment to the proof-readers. The word "plead" is not used in the past tense. The word is "pled." This mistake shows up in three places, in different articles, and should be corrected in subsequent editions. "Mormon Mavericks" should take its place alongside other fine works on Mormon history. Reading the book will raise many questions, but it is in the pursuit of answers to these questions that we experience the greatest satisfaction. My congratulations to Signature Books for a wonderful effort. - -- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 03:23:48 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Irony vs Sarcasm Jonathan Langford wrote: > (This, by the way, is one of the reasons why I discourage irony and sarcasm > on AML-List: because we as a community are united by our concern with > certain topics, but highly diverse in how we view those topics. Irony only > works with people who view things more or less the same way you do.) > Irony is a powerful, powerful tool of language--but I > think it's always likely to increase the misunderstanding factor, > particularly when speaking to people with a variety of different > backgrounds and assumptions. So is irony a form of communication that can do nothing more than preach to the choir? IF we can only use it to talk to people who think like us, then what's the point? How can it be a powerful tool of language if it is a mere incestuous, self-congratulatory form of communication? The example of the "Name Withheld" Sugar Beet article comes to mind. That article produced a lot of discussion here, which consequence editor Stephen Carter has written an essay about, saying that is the strength of irony/satire: the ability to get people thinking instead of just sermonizing truths to them which they can only accept or reject. I think it's obvious that those who were upset by the "Name Withheld" article were thinking differently from the satirist who wrote it. Yet in spite of the difference, the article's purpose was accomplished. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 04:28:15 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Advances (was: Bye Bye Oprah?) Todd Petersen wrote: > Money still ruins the integrity of art. > Once someone else's money is > involved, they want to start telling you what to do and artists have to > bend to that. Yeah, that's why history provides us with so many examples of artistic schlock ruined by OPM (other people's money): Michelangelo's Sistene Chapel ceiling, Beethoven's symphonies, Mozart's operas, etc. That patron system from earlier times really destroyed all the art that was coming out back then. It's not the money. It's the utterly ignorant understanding of art that the people shelling out the money have in modern times. Do artists have to bend to it? Mozart ignored an emperor's criticism that his music had "too many notes." Can't we modern artists also take a stand against such inappropriate criticism? All we have to take a stand against are things called "publishers" and "brethren," not something scary like "emperors." - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 04:32:33 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Bye Bye Oprah? Todd Petersen wrote: > It seems like the implication here is that the only valuble > compensation is money, unless I've read that wrong. Surely there is > something more than cash to compensate a writer for their labor--perhaps > respect or renown. Maybe even the knowledge that God is happy with you. I'll be willing to take no money for my books if the publisher and the book store will also agree to the same. Until then, I have as much right to my compensation as they do theirs. Respect, renown, a sense of accomplishment, knowledge that God is happy with me--and cash. Now there's a winning combination. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 16:10:31 -0500 From: "pdhunter" Subject: [AML] Latter-day Saints on the Silver Screen Latter-day Saints on the Silver Screen Sunday, 7 April 2002 KSL-TV Documentary by Carole Mikita [Preston Hunter] On Sunday, 7 April 2002, KSL-TV aired a half-hour documentary entitled "Latter-day Saints on the Silver Screen." The documentary was written, produced and hosted by KSL arts and culture correspondent Carole Mikita. A Mikita documentary has aired ever six months between General Conference sessions on Sunday since 1998. Mikita won an Emmy in 1998 for her documentary "Gideon's Story." "Latter-day Saints on the Silver Screen" presented a very good, albeit brief, overview of its subject, covering 1905 to the present time. The credits for this documentary were: Producer/Reporter: Carole Mikita Photographers: KSL News Staff Editor: Bob Brown Graphics: Rita Papadakis Post Production: Lance Hope, Jeff Poulter Promotion: Jane Allen Managing Editor: Con Psarras News Director: Brink Chipman Executive Producer: Russ Crabb Films and filmmakers mentioned during the documentary were: 1905 - "A Trip to Salt Lake City" 2-minute silent short. Filmmaker: Thomas Edison. Spoof of polygamy. Overburdened man with many wives and children trying to get them all a drink of water at the same time. Carole Mikita says in the documentary that this is the earliest movie reference to Mormons. 1917 - A Mormon Maid 1922 - Trapped by the Mormons - England. Mentioned in President Benson's biography as being of concern and a challenge he faced as a missionary. A general reference to occasional Mormon characters in westerns during the 1930's and 40's - portrayed as long-suffering, religious pioneers. 1940 - Brigham Young: Frontiersman. Vincent Price played Joseph Smith. The actor who played Brigham Young (Dean Jagger) later joined the church. Mikita talked about how the Church cooperated with Hollywood in the making of "Brigham Young" to make sure it was more accurate, and she quoted the prophet at the time (Heber J. Grant) as saying, after he left a screening of the film, that he wouldn't change a thing, that this film would make friends. 1950 - Wagon Master. A scene is shown in which a couple of the characters tell the Indians they are Mormons and that pacifies the Indians. 1958 - Blood Arrow. Mormon characters 1969 - Paint Your Wagon. A polygamist is talked into selling one of his two wives. Television: "Picket Fences" (an episode of the regular series) and Siege at Alta View (a made-for-television movie) Church videos - "Together Forever" Kieth Merrill - The Alamo (1987); The Great American Cowboy; Legacy; Testaments Richard Dutcher called a modern-day pioneer - God's Army; Brigham City; The Prophet The Other Side of Heaven The Singles Ward Out of Step The documentary called Out of Step another example of a crossover film: meaning meant for members and non-members alike. They gave a very basic plot synopsis, showed the director talking about how non-members would be able to enjoy the film without getting the feeling that they were being preached at or even being taught about Mormonism, and then said that the film was just starting out so it was too early to say if it would be financially successful or not, although critics have given positive reviews. People who appeared in the documentary: Carole Mikita Professor Jim D'Arc - Curator BYU Film Archives Chris Hicks - Feature Editor and former full-time movie reviewer, Deseret News Richard Dutcher Jeff Simpson - President, Excel Entertainment Group Jeff Simpson specifically mentioned Cinemark when he said the big theater chains take them seriously, especially in the Intermountain West, after the success of God's Army. Larry H. Miller - Investor in The Prophet Gerald Molen - credited as an "Academy Award Winning Producer." Molen said that The Other Side of Heaven is his last film before retiring. Mitch Davis - writer/director of The Other Side of Heaven Brother and Sister Groberg, the actual people whose story is told in The Other Side of Heaven Christopher Gorham - star of The Other Side of Heaven Leigh Von Der Esch - Utah Film Commission Director Kurt Hale Ryan Little - Director of Out of Step They also had some quotes and one-liners referring to Mormons from various shows including: "Cheers", "Chapter Two", Star Trek IV, Jeremiah Johnson and others. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:29:00 -0700 From: "Rex Goode" Subject: Re: [AML] SSA in Mormon Lit [MOD: I appreciate Rex's bringing this back around to a literary connection.] The Laird wondered why SSA is such an engrossing subject. I have to start by saying that I didn't really see anything that I thought was a literary or cultural connection in the post, so I'm not sure how to respond and remain on-topic. I don't really think that my SSA is any different than anyone else's temptation, but that is exactly the point about it. It isn't different. It is only different in the way that two sides of culture, even Mormon culture, approach it. As one who feels those yearnings, I can't claim to want it to be a different struggle. I have pressed for many years, in my public statements, to bring it back to the realm of just another of many challenges a man or woman might face. I am not, at this time in my life "in the grip of SSA." It's common to refer to men like me as a "struggler," when speaking of a subset of people who have a vested interest in the topic, as in, strugglers, indulgers, spouses of, parents of, friends of, curious bystanders. That leaves me out of the list, because "struggler" doesn't make for an accurate noun to describe me. I don't struggle with it. There's no struggle left, nor do I indulge anymore. It just is and I accept it. When faced with temptation, I no longer experience an inner struggle to choose what I will do. I just do what I believe is right. Why this is an interesting topic to Mormon literary community, in my opinion, is not because it is different from any other topic, but because it is not something Mormon culture likes to think about. Aside from self-help books like autobiographies like _Born That Way?_ by Erin ELDRIDGE, self-help books like Jason PARK's _Resolving Homosexual Problems_ or personal essay anthologies like _A Peculiar People_ and _A Place in the Kingdom_, there is very little in the way of Momron literature. For Mormon fiction by Mormon authors that deals with SSA there is a conspicuous dearth. It's not an accident. It's because it remains something that safe authors and publishers fear to approach. One of the most interesting statements in the recent conference was when Elder Russell M. Nelson said something to the effect of, "gender disorientation is not well understood." That's an accurate statement. What makes SSA an interesting topic is the very fact that so few people understand. it. A well-worn topic may not be all that different than SSA, but it will likely be less interesting due to the fact that plenty has already been said about it. Rex Goode - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:25:25 EDT From: HOJONEWS@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Sugar Beet in S.L. Trib > > CEDAR CITY -- The rocket-shaped Provo Temple blasts off into the > heavens. > A coffee-free Starbucks opens at Brigham Young University. Gladys Knight > records "Midnight Train to Kolob." > I think this is absolutely fun and I especially laughed at the Kolob joke. Don't know why it struck my funny bone excepting that when our kids were young we'd drive twice a year to SLC. Remember the days before people flew very much? Anyway, somewhere in Southern Utah we'd start the "ka ka" game. It would go something like "I hurt my knee in Kanab." The next person would have to add to that. "Well, after you hurt your knee (pronounced k-nee) in Kanab, I broke my heart in Kanosh, b'gosh." Each person in our family for four had to add at least one more k-n word to the thread." And it had to be a "real" word, so when my everyone ran out of words, my husband would start cheating by making them up and trying to convince the kids they were real. They have some weird adult vocabularies! Also, I wanted to say I think Utahns have always had a pretty good sense of humor about themselves. Recently the state legislature voted green Jell-O the state dessert, right? And "we" had the Polygamist beer. And I loved the Olympics pin with the missionaries on their bikes--their ties flapping in the wind! Best to you all from a newie to your list. Carolyn Howard-Johnson, Author of This is the Place, an award-winning story about a young journalist who writes her way through repression into redemption - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:33:12 -0600 From: "Richard C. Russell" Subject: Re: [AML] Lund - ----- Original Message ----- From: "JLTyner" To: "aml-list" Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 5:24 PM Subject: Re: [AML] Lund > As soon as I heard Bro. Lund's name called as a GA > I thought, "This proves there is a God and he's got a > sense of humor." I know there's a number of people > who don't like his writing or find it too simplistic, (many > of them on the list). So I was amused thinking that now > he's a GA he'll probably have much less time for writing > and that will make some people very happy. :-) This > is a good example of irony, because he might be sent > to speak at your next stake conference. Fair enough on the books. I couldn't read them but my daughter and her husband consumed them with gusto. However, his speaking ability is superb. His presentations at annual CES conferences are impressive. ********************************************* Richard C. Russell, SLC UTAH www.leaderlore.com, lderlore@xmission.com "There is never the last word, only the latest." ********************************************* - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:35:18 -0600 (MDT) From: Margaret Blair Young Subject: Re: [AML] Sanitized LDS History? One of the beautiful things about the Bible is that it INCLUDES the failings of the prophets. David not only committed adultery with Bathsheba, but had blood-lust. Judah committed adultery with his daughter-in law, Tamar, (and by the way, both Tamar and Bathsheba [the wife of Uriah the Hittite] are mentioned in the genealogy of Jesus Christ. Peter's denial of Christ seems so huge, and time after time, the discipels demonstrate their lack of knowledge or understanding, as well as their lack of faith. Paul can be so dang dogmatic, but we know he had a "thorn in his side"--even though he doesn't specify. The women in the Bible are pretty amazing, but Mary, who anointed Jesus' feet, was a harlot. Nonetheless, "she loved much, therefore she has been forgiven much." The thing about the Bible is that it DOESN'T seem sanitized. Maybe we'd be appalled to know what the good censors took out of it, but it appears to be pretty straightforward. But when was the last time any of us read a modern biography of a latter-day prophet that included chapters on his sins or weaknesses? Try getting something like that past correlation! [Margaret Young] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:37:33 -0600 (MDT) From: Margaret Blair Young Subject: RE: [AML] Sanitized LDS History? > ___ Margaret ___ > | Newell and Avery's_Emma Smith: Mormon Enigma_ was critically > | acclaimed by LDS historians, but is very controversial today. > > Okay, Clark, I wasn't going to get specific. Controversial in that stakes churchwide were told not to host the authors at firesides. A good many people left the Church over the revelations of _Mormon Enigma_. Apparently, someone up the line thought it a dangerous book. [Margaret Young] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 17:41:10 -0600 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] Lund On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 16:24:55 -0700 JLTyner writes: > As soon as I heard Bro. Lund's name called as a GA > I thought, "This proves there is a God and he's got a > sense of humor." On Sunday, when it was announced that he would be speaking, I turned to my wife and said, "I would just love it if the first words from his mouth were, 'The Steeds are not real.'" scott - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 18:20:49 -0600 From: "Marianne Hales Harding" Subject: Re: [AML] Bye Bye Oprah? >On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 15:28:37 -0600 "Todd Petersen" >writes: > > > It seems like the implication here is that the only valuble > > compensation is money, unless I've read that wrong. Surely there is > > something more than cash to compensate a writer for their > > labor--perhaps respect or renown. Maybe even the knowledge > > that God is happy with you. > >Should the teacher or the policeman or the nurse or any other non-artist >be just as content? Amen, Scott! There is a woman I know personally (she's in our stake) who runs a small theatre company here and she in all earnestness said to my husband, an Equity actor, that she hates to hire Equity actors because "they make us put money into their pension and health insurance funds!" My question to that is....so you want people to make acting their full time pursuit (which is what you're saying when you say you want a certain quality of actor) but you don't want to pay them equitably for it? Because actors, unlike other professionals, don't get old? Or don't have health problems? Hmmm? Divorcing money from the arts is a "luxury" that most of us do not have. Perhaps someday (the millenium?) we will be able to come up with a non-money-based way of living but for now that's all we've got and for artists it's no different than it is for other people. Not paying artists what they need to live isn't a way to make the arts more "pure." It's just a way to ensure that more quality artists will not be able to produce as much quality art...because they've got to make money *somehow* in order to *live* and, let's face it, there are only a finite number of hours in a day. No matter how burning your desire to create is, it's awfully hard to make a masterpiece when you're starving. Yes, I feel very strongly about this. Marianne Hales Harding _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 19:12:04 -0600 From: luannstaheli Subject: Re: [AML] Other Side of Heaven: Okay for Kids? My boys (ages 8 & 9) liked The Other Side of Heaven. I didn't find anything wrong or questionable about letting them see it. Enjoy! There was more questionable about God's Army. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 23:10:36 -0700 From: "Richard R. Hopkins" Subject: Re: [AML] Sanitized LDS History? "Clark Goble" wrote: > Just as we wouldn't read 17th century alchemy as if it were chemisty or 12th > century astrology as if it were astronomy, we should be careful about > reading old views on history as if they were modern views on history. That is not always true. As a lawyer, I have great respect for the rules of evidence. Those rules were designed to filter out misleading and inaccurate information and they generally prefer history recorded shortly after it occurred over the strained recollections of those writing decades after the fact. But both are to be preferred over much of what we see in revisionist history today, which prefers the views of those who never experienced the history at all over the view those who did. I see that with much sadness in current US histories and I wonder if our view of sanitized LDS history will lead us (or has) to make similar mistakes in the name of being more broadminded. Speaking of broadmindedness, some responses to this thread have misunderstood my view regarding whether or not Joseph Smith practiced polygamy. I wish merely to be open-minded about the possibilities. If the evidence does not support the conclusion that he did, I'm willing to accept that. Likewise if the evidence agrees with what most scholars say about the subject today. To get started with this project, I'm thinking of doing something rather different. It involves creating a research tool, something that will allow me to better evaluate claims regarding the activities of Joseph Smith. I'm considering the possibility of preparing a simple calendar of Joseph Smith's activities and agenda for every day from April 6, 1830 to the date of his martyrdom based on the DHC, the CHC, Joseph Smith's personal diaries (recently published) and other reliable sources. There are many uses for such a calendar, of course, and others might find it a good research tool. What do you think?. I don't believe anyone has done this yet. Does anyone on the list know if anyone has tried to complete such a project? If you think it's a good idea, what calendar program would you use? Lotus Organizer? Any thoughts? Richard Hopkins - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 00:19:06 -0600 From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: [AML] Arthur Henry King ___ Fred ___ | ...but, just as students trace their epistemological genealogy | and start of their reputation back to their professors, so too | are professors known by their students. So as we look at | people like Terry Warner, Gene England, Russ Osguthorpe, Perry | Bratt, Jim Faulconer, Giles Florence, Gerritt Gong, Dan Graham, | Cynthia Hallen, Lisa Hawkins, Stefinee Pinnegar, Dillon Inouye, | Scott Loveless, Karen Maloney, Shiela McCleve, Dennis Packard, | Marie Hafen, Camille and Richard Williams, John Tanner, Jeff | Taylor, Donlu Thayer, Tom Hinckley, Bruce Young, Sterling and | Marilee VanWagenen, and hundreds of others, and as we ask them | to talk about the influence Arthur Henry King had on their | professional work and academic reputation, we come to | understand that something marvelous happened in their | relationship with him which belies the common slander of | "King Arthur's fan club." ___ While I don't doubt King had influence on people in encouraging them or motivating them, I was more interested in a direct intellectual contributions. i.e. a contribution of ideas, concepts, and so forth. For instance even ignoring Nibley's published writings, he dramatically changed how people read the Book of Mormon by looking at specific near eastern patterns. It is easy to trace his influence both in FARMS and even among those at Signature. While I don't doubt King has some influence, I wonder what it is specifically? What interpretive stance, methodology, or ontology did he bring? I'm not criticizing him in this if he has no influence in this regard. Just being a good teacher is a good thing. However I was more looking for something along the lines of Husserl's influence on Heidegger, Levinas' influence on Derrida, Nibley's influence on Stephen Ricks, William Hamblin and John Gee, etc. I'd even say that figures like Blake Ostler have had a major influence on the intellectual history of the church. I guess I'm just asking whether King has had an influence in terms of ideas. - -- Clark Goble --- clark@lextek.com ----------------------------- - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:46:07 -0600 From: "Morgan Adair" Subject: [AML] Joseph Smith Chronology (was: Sanitized LDS History?) >>> cornerstonepublishing@attbi.com 04/12/02 12:10AM >>> > >I'm >considering the possibility of preparing a simple calendar of Joseph Smith's >activities and agenda for every day from April 6, 1830 to the date of his >martyrdom based on the DHC, the CHC, Joseph Smith's personal diaries >(recently published) and other reliable sources. There are many uses for >such a calendar, of course, and others might find it a good research tool. >What do you think?. I don't believe anyone has done this yet. Does anyone on >the list know if anyone has tried to complete such a project? If you think >it's a good idea, what calendar program would you use? Lotus Organizer? Any >thoughts? Sounds like this book: Joseph Smith Chronology Conkling, J. Christopher Deseret Book 1979, 276 pp. Conkling also co-wrote the screenplay for the disastrous 1978 _Lord of the Rings_--the one that combined live action and animation: <> MBA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:57:30 -0600 (MDT) From: Hamilton Fred Subject: [AML] re: Joseph Smith Chronology To the AML List: Libraries with Item: CT -YALE UNIV LIBR YUS - OH -CLEVELAND PUB LIBR CLE - OR -EASTERN OREGON UNIV EOS - EU -UNIV OF OXFORD EQO - Database: WorldCat Title: Joseph Smith; seeker after truth, prophet of God. Author(s): Widtsoe, John Andreas, 1872-1952. Publication: Salt Lake City, Desert News Press, Year: 1952 Description: x, 385 p. p., illus., ports., 24 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Named Person: Smith, Joseph, 1805-1844. Note(s): "A chronology featuring political highlights in the career of Joseph Smith ... by Dr. G. Homer Durham": p. [361]-370./ Bibliography: p. [371]-375. Class Descrpt: Dewey: 289.3092 Document Type: Book Entry: 19800711 Update: 20011022 Accession No: OCLC: 6506514 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ FirstSearch(r) Copyright (c) 1992-2002 OCLC as to electronic presentation and platform. All Rights Reserved. Respectfully, Skip Hamilton - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:45:45 -0500 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Clock-Stopping (was: Box Office Report April 5) [MOD: Lots of responses on this, so I'm creating a compilation post.] >From lderlore@xmission.com Thu Apr 11 15:28:30 2002 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "kumiko" > "CLOCKSTOPPERS" AND "OTHER TIME": [snip] But I simply MUST say something about the plot. It > features a rather unique scientific device in the form of a watch that > apparently freezes time around the person wearing it. In actuality, it > speeds up time immediately around the person wielding the device that > everything around him or her seems to be frozen in time. It's an unusual > science fictional plot device, and, as far as I know, it is an idea that has > never been featured in any movie. But it is EXACTLY the same plot device > that was used by Latter-day Saint author Diana Lofgran Hoffman in her 1993 > story "Other Time." Thanks for great reviews. It seems to me that in A Planet Called Treason, 1979, Orson Scott Card, while not using a watch, used the same phenomenon of speeding up time so that all around looked frozen. The protagonist learned to do that from some of the inhabitants as well as to slow himself down so that he looked frozen to them. Star Trek (original) had a similar effect that was caused by either water or a plant on the planet's surface. ********************************************* Richard C. Russell, SLC UTAH www.leaderlore.com, lderlore@xmission.com "There is never the last word, only the latest." ********************************************* - ------------------------------------------------ >From ThomDuncan@prodigy.net Thu Apr 11 15:29:25 2002 The plot device was also used in an old Twilight Zone episode. IIRC, astronauts land on and earth-like planet but everyone is frozen in time. They soon figure out that THEY are moving super fast. FWIW, there are no sf ideas that haven't been tried at least once. So an sf film is going to recycle some old plot or device even if they author's think it is original. It's how the recycling is done that makes the difference. Thom Duncan - ------------------------------------------ >From terryj@xmission.com Thu Apr 11 16:20:18 2002 Perhaps the device has not appeared in any movies, but the time-stopping watch has appeared in a number of television shows, including _The Twilight Zone._ In the _TZ_ episode, the owner of the watch stops time in order to rob a bank. In the process he drops the watch, which breaks and leaves him to live out his life alone among the frozen population. Terry L Jeffress | It is a good rule, after reading a new book, South Jordan, UT | never to allow yourself another new one till you | have read an old one in between. -- C. S. Lewis - ------------------------------------------------- >From BJ@bjrowley.com Thu Apr 11 18:11:53 2002 I haven't seen "Clockstoppers" yet, but watching the preview was VERY spooky for me ... because it's also EXACTLY the same plot device that I used in my latest YA novel, "Sixteen In No Time," released just last August. (Totally different plot, of course.) I hadn't heard anything about "Clockstoppers" back then, and I'd never heard of Hoffman's "Other Time" either. Pure coincidence. But, like I said ... spooky. BJ Rowley Orem, Utah - ------------------------------------------ >From ersamuel@byugate.byu.edu Fri Apr 12 08:42:02 2002 The Girl The Gold Watch and Everything comes from one of the few SF works = by John D. McDonald, of the Travis McGee crime series. I've been a huge = McDonald fan for years, while sadly admitting that the McGee books don't = actually hold up all that well anymore, and that Carl Hiassen and Elmore = Leonard are better. =20 Eric Samuelsen - ------------------------------------------- >From eskarstedt@sonici.com Fri Apr 12 08:46:13 2002 On "Clockstoppers" and "Other Time" I'm afraid that I can't let the calling of the time-stopping-watch "an unusual science fictional plot device" go unchallenged. The idea is old and well used. John D. McDonald wrote the book, "The Girl the Gold Watch and Everything" Keith Laumer used a similar device in one of his novels. Chris Heimerdinger used a suit that did the same thing in one of his books. I'm sure others can add to the list. "Clockstoppers" is attempting to add to an old and venerable tradition of time-travel stories. Does it make a worthy contribution? I haven't seen it so I don't know. I'm pretty sure, however, that if the writers and directors did not attempt to absorb the work that has already been done around that particular idea before they wrote the piece then it probably didn't. Not that someone couldn't write about an old idea, having come up with it on their own, and do it justice, it just seems unlikely to me, considering the refinement of the idea that would be absent from their work but present in others. - -Ethan Skarstedt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #676 ******************************