From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #714 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, May 15 2002 Volume 01 : Number 714 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 04:19:10 -0600 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Frankness in Mormon Writing margaret young wrote: > When we got the "Chastity" lesson in > Relief Society, I got so sick of the "Beware" signs getting stuck up > everywhere that I finally blurted out, "So is sex good at all?" That > brought a rather timid laugh from my RS sisters, and the answer, "Yes! > That's why it's sacred!" This is just so classic an example of what I'm talking about. Here's someone blatantly giving lip service to the idea that sex is sacred, but her actions obviously show she is ashamed of it. What other sacred thing would she nervously titter at the mention of? That reaction is not born of reverencing sacred things. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:09:53 -0700 From: "Susan Malmrose" Subject: Re: [AML] Frankness in Mormon Writing > > This reminds me of a discussion on another list I'm on. One person > > invoked the principle of "moderation in all things" as taught in the > > Word of Wisdom. > > > > I've heard this bromide (fun word) many times, so I finally took the > > occasion to actually read the 89th section and see exactly where this > > principle is taught. I found absolutely nothing in the Word of Wisdom > > that taught moderation in anything, let alone all things. The closest > > that came to it was the admonition to eat meat sparingly. Everything > > else was forbidden or pronounced good for the body. The scriptures admonish us to be temperate in all things. Things forbidden in the WoW are (for many) addictive and difficult to use in moderation. It's not hard to see why someone would say the WoW is encouraging moderation in all things. Susan M - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 17:22:11 +0000 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] 3 Good Movies Cathy Wilson wrote: > >And finally--though perhaps you won't agree with me on this >one--_Unfaithful_. I figure if they cut down on the graphic sex scenes and >cleaned up the language a little bit, this film should be showed in Gospel >Doctrine around the Church (just joking, just joking). Still, I have rarely >seen anything that spoke so powerfully against adultery and infidelity. I >still have to figure out how they did it. . .the story, as you may have >seen >from the trailers, is about a wife experiencing the "Hollywood dream," a >very passionate affair with a gorgeous young guy. What the trailers don't >show you is that, from the beginning, you see the sordid downside, the >guilt, the immediate knowing of the husband, the jealousy, the confusion, >the darkness. Quite apart from the storyline which develops the devastation >of the family, the images, music, camera work and acting build and build >this terrible emotional condition resulting from adultery. It is so intense >that at the end, both my husband and I felt physically ill. I actually felt >like I was going to throw up.I thought it was like aversion therapy. It's >all subtle but extremely powerful. What's amazing about this is that for >once a big Hollywood film did not glamorize the affair but instead gave us >a >message that adultery ruins you--and your spouse--and your >family--spiritually as well as literally. > It does indeed demonstrate the devastating effects of adultery. However, it also depicts someone committing another major sin and getting away with it. (I won't give it away, though the trailer already tells you more than it should. But all-revealing trailers are a diatribe for another day.) To me, whatever points the film earned by being truthful on adultery were negated by being so Hollywood and cheap in regards to the other thing. Eric D. Snider _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:06:33 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] 3 Good Movies - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathy Wilson" To: Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 9:20 AM Subject: [AML] 3 Good Movies > We just saw some good movies--meaning well-done but also (at least to me > :) ) uplifting, moral, instructive, helpful. . . three of them. > > _Life or Something Like It_ had some obvious flaws, including predictability > and too many close-ups of Angelina Jolie. Excuse me, but whatever faults this film may have, you can never have too many close-ups of Angelina Jolie! > And finally--though perhaps you won't agree with me on this > one--_Unfaithful_. I figure if they cut down on the graphic sex scenes and > cleaned up the language a little bit, this film should be showed in Gospel > Doctrine around the Church (just joking, just joking). Still, I have rarely > seen anything that spoke so powerfully against adultery and infidelity. The director's other film staring Michael Douglas and Glenn Close, _Fatal Attraction_ had a similar affect in that it showed what horror could escalate from a one-night stand. It was a great cautionary tale. >What's amazing about this is that for > once a big Hollywood film did not glamorize the affair but instead gave us a > message that adultery ruins you--and your spouse--and your > family--spiritually as well as literally. It's not necessarily for once. Other films have done this, one of which I give as an example above. Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:26:15 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Re: Money and Art When the Church stops paying the professional architects, contractors, and builders who erect our temples, I'll stop expecting to be paid for my professional services toward the Church. (I don't mind donating time in other areas, but I no longer donate time when it comes to things theatrical). Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 10:33:29 -0600 From: margaret young Subject: [AML] Virus Warning [MOD: AML-List does not send out attachments, so it sounds like we may be safe from this particularly one in terms of messages from AML-List. However, it sounds like it might be wise for all to beware of unexpected attachments from Margaret...] Jonathan, I don't know if a virus can infiltrate the AML list, but I have a computer virus which has been spamming all sorts of people on my e-mail file and trying to send them the same virus. I am very concerned about this, and have been trying to warn people to NEVER open an attachment from me. (I won't be sending attachments to anyone but Deseret and Darius until this problem is fixed) and to be sure their systems are updated and scanned for viruses. I'm hoping to get my computer cleansed later today. I'm quite sure I brought the virus from my home computer, which is not current on its virus checks. If you think it's wise, please post this. I have periodically e-mailed individuals on the list outside of the list context. I don't want this thing to spread any more than it has already. [Margaret Young] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:46:41 -0600 From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: [AML] Money and Art It used to be that all the members of a ward would help construct and maintain a building. I remember well going up and helping stain wood as a little kid. Further we all helped on various other things. I think it was only 10 - 15 years ago that building maintenance was more standardized. If I recall this was more for reasons of economy and simplicity -- sometimes people 'claimed' skills they didn't really have. Further it ensured that jobs were done on time and to a relatively standard degree of quality. (I suspect it cut down on hurt feelings too when some people screwed up) However the basic principle of the church is that most of us have promised to consecrate our time and skills to the Lord. Ultimately we are supposed to see our talents as given to us by the Lord and that we use them first on his behalf. While I can see where Br. Arrington might view this in terms of "the laborer is worthy of his pay," I don't think that the correct view. Consider all the other positions who are called to duty with their talents. I know that every time the Stake or Ward had a few "incompetent book keepers" my Dad was given a calling as secretary or some other job. This was almost always done because the books and records were so screwed up they needed someone competent to fix them. Typically this involved a great amount of time. My dad was picked because he was very organized and, as a physicist, was much more "number oriented" than the typical members of the area. Now why is it that we'd see that sort of calling as fine, while a call to "Choir director" or the like for a musically inclined person is unfair? Likewise, if the Lord has need of someone as Bishop who has training in therapy or psychology and calls him, is that unfair? There is a dangerous precedence here. Now clearly not all callings are based upon ability. (Indeed judging from the many Sunday School teachers I've sat through the opposite is often the case) Yet if we say that music skills are somehow privileged over other skills. . . Well that is a rather dangerous view, isn't it? So I think Larry is correct. - -- Clark Goble --- clark@lextek.com ----------------------------- - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:09:35 -0400 From: "Quinn - Hotmail" Subject: [AML] Re: Money and Art I had the same reaction Larry did when I read Thom's post. I've been in several wards where members were asked to donate their professional skills. Just last week my bishop asked the members of the PEC if there was anyone in the ward who had enough construction experience to install some handrails in the home of a brother who recently suffered a stroke. No mention was made of compensation, yet several men volunteered their services. To me, this was a beautiful example of consecreation at work -- members of the ward doing for someone what he couldn't do for himself. The principle of consecration should apply to everyone equally, artists and plumbers alike. Isn't that the point of consecration? Everyone brings something different to the table. If we all demanded compensation whenever our work-related skills were put to use by the Church, the financial clerk would be writing checks all the time. What about the school teachers who also happen to teach primary on Sundays? What about the motivational speaker who is asked to give a talk in sacrament meeting? What about the CEO who is called to be a stake president? The fact that a person's skills may be in writing or music or visual arts doesn't make that person exempt from the principle of consecration. If anything, the cards are already stacked in favor of the artists of the Church. I think they are more likely to receive compensation than are the thousands of teachers, managers, and other professionals who receive callings or assignments because they possess a particular set of skills. - - Quinn Warnick - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:16:49 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: Re: [AML] ABANES, _One Nation Under Gods_ (Report) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Morris" To: Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [AML] ABANES, _One Nation Under Gods_ (Report) > > --- Jeff Needle wrote: > > Hee hee hee! I always knew there was something sinister going on there. > > > > My only question -- once you take over the world, what are you going to > > do > > with it??? > > > > Haven't you read that Doctrine & Covenants section where it says that > after the Saints take over the world it will be transformed into a sea of > Jello? > > > ~~William Morris > > It's a disgrace that a non-member like myself has to teach you about your own church. Read it again -- the jello clumps are the islands, the sea will be made of awful tasting fruit punch. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 14:03:43 -0500 From: "Preston" Subject: [AML] LDS Box Office Report May 12, Part 2 Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) Weekend of May 10, 2002 Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com [If table below doesn't line up properly, try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier - - Ed.] Natl Film Title Weekend Gross Rank LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor Total Gross Theaters Days - --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 3 The New Guy (NEW) 9,007,833 2,687 3 Eliza Dushku (actor) 9,007,833 7 Murder by Numbers 2,427,318 2,116 24 Ryan Gosling (actor) 27,462,731 17 ESPN's Ultimate X (NEW) 613,670 47 3 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 613,670 43 The Other Side of Heaven 66,503 84 150 Mitch Davis (writer/director) 4,381,772 John H. Groberg (author/character) Gerald Molen, John Garbett (producers) 63 The Singles Ward 25,408 18 101 Kurt Hale (writer/director) 662,785 John E. Moyer (writer) Dave Hunter (producer) Cody Hale (composer) Ryan Little (cinematographer) Actors: Will Swenson, Connie Young, Daryn Tufts, Kirby Heyborne, Michael Birkeland, Robert Swenson, Lincoln Hoppe, Gretchen Whalley, Sedra Santos, etc. 69 Galapagos 13,463 6 927 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 13,260,096 72 Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man 10,263 4 738 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 13,264,505 93 China: The Panda Adventure 2,961 4 290 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 2,284,663 97 Mark Twain's America 3D 2,344 1 1410 Alan Williams (composer) 2,212,042 This week, up-to-date numbers for "The Singles Ward" return. Kurt Hale's Saint-centric satire opened on May 10th in Arizona theaters, and continued playing in Utah, Idaho and at one theater in Hawaii. Interestingly, "The Singles Ward" outperformed "The Other Side of Heaven" on a per-screen basis this weekend. "Heaven" pulled in $792 per theater, while "The Singles Ward" grossed $1,412 per theater. This coming weekend should feature another large drop in most films' numbers. It will be interesting to see which films can survive having both "Spiderman" and "Star Wars: Attack of the Clones" in theaters. Obviously, venues for independent films to play will be increasingly scarce. "Murder by Numbers", featuring LDS actor, Ryan Gosling, dropped to the #7 spot this week. Much like David Howard's "Galaxy Quest", "Murder" is truly proving to have legs. You may remember that "Galaxy Quest" never hit the #1 spot, but it seemed to hang around in the top 10 forever. Disney's G-rated "The Rookie" is also doing the same thing, an achievement significant to box office watchers interested in the performance of quality family films. NO LONGER A SECRET: Latter-day Saint film director Blair Treu's latest movie "Little Secrets" (aka "Secret Keeper") will receive a nationwide release on August 16 from Columbia Tri-Star Pictures. This family-friendly film has already garnered an armful of major festival awards and critical notices. Starring Tayva Patch ("Out of Step", "Brigham City", "Testaments"), Jan Gardner and Rick Macy ("Out of Step", "Brigham City", "Testaments"). Music is by Sam Cardon ("Brigham City", "Mysteries of Egypt"). Cinematography by long-time Treu collaborator Brian Sullivan. Jerry Stayner and Wynn Hougaard ("Out of Step", "The Singles Ward") are the editors. Christian Vuissa ("Roots and Wings") served as assistant director. We'll keep you posted as more information becomes available. YET ANOTHER HIT IMAX FILM FROM REED SMOOT: Latter-day Saint cinematographer Reed Smoot's "ESPN's Ultimate X" opened very strongly this weekend. Despite only playing in 47 theaters - it is an IMAX film - the movie grossed $613,670 - that is $13,057 per screen and good enough for the weekend's #17 spot. That made it the third-highest per screen average of the weekend, topped only by "Spider-Man" at $19,756 per theater and "Space Station", which averaged $14,599 in its 33 theaters. It seems there are a few BMX fans out there. Reviews are coming in for "Ultimate X." They are mostly positive reviews, although not ecstatic. RottenTomatoes.com so far tracks 13 positive reviews and 8 negative ones, a "freshness" rating of 62%. Smoot, one of the most successful Latter-day Saint cinematographers in the history of film, has photographed an astonishing range of films, including "Mysteries of Egypt", "Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure", "Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man", "Homeward Bound: The Incredible Journey", "Legacy", "Grand Canyon: The Hidden Secrets", "Harry's War", "Windwalker", "The Lost Manuscript", "Cipher in the Snow" and many others. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:22:14 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: Re: [AML] GIVENS, _By the Hand of Mormon_ (Review) Fabulous insights, as always. As an outsider, I often lack a certain perspective into all things Mormon. I can always depend on my friends here to fill in the blanks, and I'm very grateful! Thanks, Clark. > I think that a correct position is more in the middle - but a middle that > acknowledges and encompasses this "perspectivism." We all look at facts in > terms of our own history, fears, and desires. The middle ground recognizes > why a B.H. Roberts would write history the way he does. It would > acknowledge that view of God's hand in the restoration that he tried to > portray as he wrote history. If the New Historians try to eliminate that > bias and place an other in its stead, so be it. However lets acknowledge > the hidden in these narratives of the facts we give. > > [Clark Goble] > > - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 12:18:28 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: Re: [AML] Gerald N. LUND, _Come Unto Me_ (Review) [MOD: This is a compilation of several replies by Jeff.] - ----- Original Message ----- From: "robert lauer" > Hebrew was derived from Aramaic. [snip] > As for why Lund would include this in his book--well, I haven't read his > book, but I assume that he's merely showing off his research. I wouldn't > think this would serve his fiction very well. > > ROB. LAUER > I'm realizing now I didn't make my point very well. I'm well aware of how Aramaic and Hebrew relate, and that Aramaic was the spoken language in Jesus' time. I was just cringing that Lund would consider "shalom" an Aramaic word! It's the kind of phony pseudo-scholarship that just drives me nuts. > I agree that things like this in books are annoying...but one > question--where was the editor? [snip] > Kim Madsen Good points all around. Yes, why wouldn't an editor catch it? Perhaps the editor didn't know any better? Shame. [Jeff Needle] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:41:33 -0500 From: "Preston" Subject: [AML] _Handcart_ Trailer, Poster Online Here's a great looking poster for Kels Goodman's upcoming feature movie "Handcart": http://www.kelsgoodman.com/cgi-bin/i/poster.jpg And you can check out new trailers here: http://www.kelsgoodman.com/video.html - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 15:12:18 -0700 From: "Jerry Tyner" Subject: RE: [AML] LDS Environmentalism Ivan you are not alone. Many who have spent many hours in wilderness = atmospheres for any period of time (i.e. - Scout Outings, Wilderness = Campouts, etc.) would feel the same way. I'm to the point in my Scouting = career where I don't want to camp all the much anymore (time to turn it = over to the younger generation). I have physical problems laying on the = ground without a thick mat for my sleeping bag. I'm also tired of = battling the insects out there. They may not want to eat me but they = sure do take chunks out of flesh when they bite. Not only that but no = matter what you tell boys not to do they do anyway to see if the = consequences are real you told them about. Nature is very beautiful to look at but... While I was on my mission Hartman Rector Jr. came and talked at our = Stake in Wyoming. He told everyone from the pulpit "I was flying over = this country side and I could not help but think "My there is a lot of = land not being used. Why is everyone worried about overpopulation?" = Heavenly Father gave us the resources to use. That some have used them = for greed is only my problem so far as it impacts me and my family. Will = the oil, gas, and auto companies get smart and build cars which are = environmentally sound and get good gas mileage and have good speed and = are affordable? I would venture to guess that will not happen until the = Millennium...but it will happen. There are a lot of things that man has = made that need to be fixed in one way or another but this earth is here = for our wise use. Like drilling in Alaska or mining coal in Utah. All of = this can be done and the environment preserved. There are too many who = for dollars in their pockets will not allow people to try. Will the middle eastern and other OPEC countries embargo us again? = Maybe. I would have a 30 mile bicycle ride to work but I can get there. = There will be others who will go nuts then watch the Environmentalist = try to stop everything. Will the Earth be able to hold a population of 6, 7, or 20 billion? Wow, = good question. How many do we think will be here during the Millennium? = But the Earth will be renewed and receive its Paradisiacal Glory, you = say. That is fine but how many will the Earth hold? The point I'm trying = to make here is due to the Governments of the World and some of the = petty despots who rule there are problems of astronomical proportion. = They could be all fixed except for the greed of Man, be in whatever it = is. I'm sure there are many who will be judged for various offences = against the Earth and its resources as well as against the World = Population. Personally I go with an old special forces saying (modified for this = forum): Let the Savior come and wipe out all the wickedness in the World = and then we can sort it out properly with God as our head and a Prophet = to lead us. Jerry Tyner Orange County, CA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 17:10:07 -0700 (PDT) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: Re: [AML] LDS Box Office report May 12, Part 1 - --- webmaster wrote: > > YET ANOTHER DISASTROUS MOVIE CHOICE BY A TALENTED ACTRESS WHO DESERVES > BETTER: Reviews are coming in for "The New Guy", which features Eliza > Dushku > as the lead actress and the nerd-turned-hipster's love interest. Most of > the > reviews are really, really negative, including ratings of 1 star, zero > stars, or "F." RottenTomatoes.com tallied 22 negative reviews and 1 > positive > one: a "freshness" rating of 4%. Ouch. On the other hand, Roger Ebert > gave > it two stars -- exactly the same score he gave "Star Wars: Attack of the > Clones" this week. > Is Eliza Dushku LDS? The psychopathic Faith of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is a nice Mormon girl? ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 20:06:43 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: [AML] DeAne NEILSON, _Perfect Neighbors_ (Review) Review ====== Title: Perfect Neighbors Author: DeAne Neilson Publisher: Hatrack River Year Published: 1994 Number of Pages: 207 Binding: Quality Paperback ISBN: 0-9624049-6-9 Price: $7.95 Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle Richard and Kate Waterman are a typical Utah Mormon family -- lots of kids, nice house, active in church, etc. But Kate has acquired the habit of walking around her house naked when she's by herself. Her bedroom is high enough from the nearest house so she's fairly confident she won't be seen by her neighbors. But when a new family moves in next door, and the woman of the house sees Kate naked, Kate sees only disaster coming. Instead, the neighbor, Sydney Thygerson, is a rough-and-tumble, hard to put off Mormon. Kate and Syd, and Richard and Syd's husband Sheldon, become quick friends. The story centers on the interaction between the two families, their children, and their activities in church. As active members of their ward, they find themselves in a constant round of home teaching, baby-sitting, choir directing and confection baking. Kate's passion is to become the "perfect neighbor," and is constantly frustrated by her shortcomings. Syd is content with just keeping up with life, and ends up sharing some powerful life lessons with Kate. Both women grow in the process. Some of the characters are absolutely hilarious. Some even come with very funny pet names (for example, Sister JiffyPop, reflecting her tall, shiny hair-do). The Waterman's home teacher smells so bad that they have to spread a blanket on their sofa when he comes to visit -- something they can take away quickly and launder. One of the members of the ward scouts trash bins for sellable items, and one day adopts a goat as a pet, carrying to church with her the smell of the goat. Yuck! The book speaks about how women cope with their role in the church. It neither commends, nor condemns, the frantic pace of the lives of its heroines. If one were to believe some of the details of this book, Mormon women spend most of their time baking cakes, pies and cookies. And when they're not cooking, they're eating. And then wondering why they don't fit in to their swimsuits. And Mormon neighbors come and go without knocking or ringing the doorbell. And neighbors can be found in your home sweeping, cleaning and washing dishes. Sounds very cozy. Perhaps a little too cozy for my liking. I want to say I enjoyed this book. It's a light read, and has enough humor and pathos to make it a fun read. The image of the Mormon woman presented here is two-tiered: on one level, you have women frantic about the job of raising children, baking cookies, changing diapers and generally running the household. On another level, our two protagonists find the time to think deeply about what it means to be a woman, indeed, what it means to be a person, and how one comes to accept, and even celebrate, one's own imperfections. I must close this with a major irritation, one that is so avoidable with just a little attention to editing. And it is compounded by an example of chutzpah that I don't recall seeing recently. The door behind us opened, and a voice boomed, "Got the truck unloaded yet, sweets?" Then Sheldon saw Richard and I and said, "Ah, this must be the neighbors, mooching off us already!" (p. 7) Okay, if you're like me, you're cringing at the thought that Neilson doesn't know the difference between "I" and "me." And this isn't an isolated incident. I caught at least three additional offenses. I find this so jarring. But, to make it worse: "Sure," said her elder brother, gleefully tickling her exposed foot, and neatly dodging a retaliatory kick. "You're all getting breakfast in bed for Mother's Day. Me and Dad planned it." "Dad and *I*," I automatically corrected. He gave me a confused look. "You *knew* about it?" A grammarian he's not. (p. 72) Chutzpah. If you'd like a nice, amusing read, this is a pretty good book. No great literature, but a clever look at families and the role of women in Mormonism. - ----- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com "We're all only fragile threads, but what a tapestry we make." Jerry Ellis, "Walking the Trail" - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 12:55:44 +0200 From: "Ryan Orrock" Subject: Re: [AML] Money and Art Just a thought about Europe and art. A friend of mine sings = professionally in the opera chorus in Weimar, Germany. The state just = cut their subsidy for lack of public money. Now the opera needs to fund = itself. Unemployment in Germany is now higher than when it was when Hitler came = to power. It's continually rising, despite billions being thrown at the = problem. In fact, there was an interesting headline in German news the = other day. Some figure, in the hundreds of millions of dollars, was = spent last year to create new jobs in the state of Th=FCringen, yet = there were less jobs now than before the money was spent. The cycle = continues. The German national debt is currently at 2.5 trillion DM (about 1.25 = trillion dollars) and has tripled since = 1980.(http://www.eh.net/bookreviews/library/0227.shtml) And Germany is one of the most prosperous countries in Europe. Judging on how governments often solve these types of problems, I'm not = sure I would want the give legislators either the responsibility or the = authority to make sure that proper/good/appropriate/divergent/socially = conscious/elitist/non-elitist/etc. art is created. Ryan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 09:06:43 -0700 From: "Kim Madsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Frankness in Mormon Writing Regarding Eric's story of "Brother X", all I can say in shocked Mo fashion is "OH-MY-HECK!" I am laughing and crying at the same time. It's too ridiculous for words. Missionaries??? Only two married men in the room, and a how-to lesson on sex in priesthood!? I can only imagine the discomfort level of the missionaries, not to mention everyone else in the room. And I can just see Brother X blah-blah-blahing away in the front of the room, his back to the class as he sketches on the chalkboard, oblivious to the emotional pain he's causing. One interesting thing to note: As the spouse of a recovered sex-addict, and having experienced both sides of the fence, I've learned that people who are sexually dysfunctional generally have problems distinguishing appropriate boundaries of "sharing" sexual information. I agree with Linda Adams, who, in another posting on this thread, brought up the point of infringing on other people's personal boundaries with TMI (Too Much Information). Brother X certainly couldn't distinguish those boundaries. His behavior would cause me to be highly suspicious of his sexual/emotional "health". I have too much work of my own to do to be learning at the hands of an unbalanced person. It's the best argument I've heard so far for leaving the teaching of sensitive and personal details of sexual relationships in the primary learning environment--the family. If there is dysfunction in the family (I define that as unhealthy or risky behavior), seek the help of qualified mental health professionals along with the spiritual guidance of your bishop. Don't take that to mean that I'm against discussing sex with plainess in group settings. Yes, we should discuss sex in generalities in all kinds of meetings. I could have used some education like that as a newly-wed. It would have saved me 17 years of confusion and emtional pain. The main message of such discussions should be "trust your heart--the Holy Ghost will not lead you astray. If there is something you are uncomfortable with, whether inside or outside of marriage, those feelings are a warning signal that ought to be heeded." For people who have been victimized and have healing that needs to be done, an atmosphere of loving support from spouse, family members, close friends and professionals can help. In that sort of atmosphere, when you bring up something that makes you uncomfortable, people listen with sympathetic hearts and minds and try to resolve differences. If they refuse to talk about it, refuse to listen to your point of view or refuse to express their own deepest feelings on the matter, those are red flags that professional help may be needed. Just don't go to the Brother X's of the world. Eric, I hope you're using that memory in a story somewhere. It's too good to let languish. If not, can I have it?? Kim Madsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 11:55:44 -0600 From: "Morgan Adair" Subject: Re: [AML] Small LDS Publishers and Amazon >>> clark@lextek.com 05/10/02 12:27PM >>> > >What is the place for smaller publishers in reaching the wider >Mormon audience? I did a quick check of a few smaller LDS publishers (Cedar Fort, Agreka, Eborn Books, Horizon) and found that they all had items listed on Amazon, but not always their most recent titles. It could be that Kofford Books hasn't made the effort to get Ostler's book listed on Amazon yet. The only other explanation I can think of is that Kofford prefers to sell through independent booksellers (I've seen the Ostler book at Sam Weller and Benchmark, so it's not that he thinks he can do all the marketing and distribution on his own, or that he's unwilling to give dealer discounts). MBA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 16:48:30 -0500 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Re: Book Groups (Andrew's Poll) (Comp 1) [MOD: This is a compilation post.] >From adamszoo@sprintmail.com Mon May 13 17:22:12 2002 At 03:55 AM 5/10/02, you wrote: >Tell us about your experiences in book groups/clubs. >Have you ever participated in a local book group? >In a book group dominated by Mormons? >If so, did your group read any Mormon literature? Did you suggest any >titles? How did it go? Since it's a poll, I'll answer anyway: no to all. Not for lack of interest in it. It just hasn't happened. The book groups offered by our public library have (so far) failed to interest me, or be held at convenient times for me to attend. Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - -------------------------------------------------- >From kcmadsen@utah-inter.net Mon May 13 23:14:59 2002 I've been in a book group for five years. We're mostly Mormon women...I think we had a Catholic once, but she dropped out after two years. Most of the women live around by me, so I know them well enough to know their religion. So yes, we're dominated by Mormons. Interestingly, I'm usually the one to suggest LDS authors' work, because I've been looking for "good" Mormon literature. Anyway, we've read the following over the years: THE GIANT JOSHUA by ASPEN MAROONEY Levi Peterson DESERT SONG Marilyn Arnold DARK ANGEL Robert Kirby A STORYTELLER IN ZION Orson Scott Card REFUGE Terry Tempest Williams THE CHINCHILLA FARM Judith Freeman PIECES OF WHITE SHELL Terry Tempest Williams TENDING THE GARDEN Eugene England, Lavina Fielding Anderson (essays on Mormon literature) We've decided to organize a spin off group dedicated soley to LDS literature. Our first meeting is May 29th--we're reading Eugene England's essay "One View of the Garden", and then starting our journey of discovery by reading OLD MEN AT MIDNIGHT by Chiam Potok. I know, I know--not LDS...but we're searching for a common reference ground for us to discuss LDS work, and we thought it would be good to do a comparison by Jewish author who excels at making religion an integral part of the story, but not the sole reason for the story. I've compiled lists of books from suggestions and reviews I've gathered from this AML list, so I'm excited to share the suggestions with the women in my LDS lit book group. How it went? Well enough that there were a core of 12 women who wanted an additional bookgroup just to read and share LDS literature. Kim Madsen - --------------------------------------------- >From daryoung@juno.com Tue May 14 10:49:44 2002 I have participated in several book groups, all of which were ward-based, though not exclusive to members. I'm embarrassed to admit here that I had such a bad experience with using Mormon lit. in the first group that after that I made it a rule of the groups I started that we would read NO Mormon lit. (I'm embarrassed because I should be doing more to promote good Mormon lit.) Feelings are just too close to the surface when it comes to choosing LDS books for others to read. One woman chose for her selection the Book of Mormon. Immediately some people felt obligated to read the whole thing in the month (because if you don't, you are not rightous). I saw people act judgmentally towards women who said they did not enjoy reading books by General Authorities. I saw women get their feelings hurt when they recommended a poorly-written LDS novel and others pointed out its flaws. (We seem to feel so much more proprietary when we know the author is LDS. These women have no prob! lem discussing poor writing in a book written by a non-member.) Another problem for me is that I think really good LDS fiction is rare (and before I joined AML, it was hard to even know which books were good. I got tired of wasting my time on them and being disappointed. Tathea comes to mind). And when I find something that really moves me, I am often afraid to give it to others who are not the same kind of reader that I am. (I can't give "The Backslider" to just anyone, for example. Again, the judgmentalism.) If I had a group of people who were literate, well-read and sensitive and not prone to prejudice--and who were willing to buy each book we read since we can't get much LDS fiction from the library here--I would love to study a lot more LDS fiction. Alas, I do not. (Thank goodness for AML!) [Darlene Young] - --------------------------------------------- >From andrewrhall@hotmail.com Tue May 14 23:35:36 2002 Well, I'll start out. In Japan we don't have a book group, although I have lent out my video of God's Army and will do so with my new video of Brigham City. I also bought a paperback translation of Card's Seventh Son for a member who showed an interest in it. In Pittsburgh we had two very active book groups. A little background, the Pittburgh 1st Ward is one of my favorite groups of people in the world. It covers 2/3 of the city, and is a very diverse group. Becuase there are several major universies in the ward (University of Pittsburgh, Carneige Mellon, Duquesne), there are many people who are affiliated with the universities or their hospitals. Since the demise of the steel industry, the University of Pittsburgh has become the largest employeer in the city, I believe. Also, due to clean-ups in the industry, and then its demise, the air has cleared up, and it turns out Pittsburgh is a beautiful city. Very green, with lots of vital, interesting city neighborhoods. It was a great place to live. The ward is made up of about 1/3 stable, pernament, local familes, 1/3 young graduate student couples (who sometimes eventually move into the first group category), and 1/3 inner city members, often single parent familes. That is not to say the ward is divided into cliques, there is a lot of social interaction between the various social groups. Our first book group was around to one degree or another since about 1992. It is made up of about 30 people, with people from all the groups, but mostly intellectual types, the majority of whom were connected to the University in some way. We met monthly, and read nonficiton mostly. Many declared themselves too busy to read a whole books, so one person would pick an article or group of related articles, make copies for everyone, and distribute them a couple of weeks in advance at church. We did read a little bit of fiction. Twice I copied off several of the stories from Eugene England's anthology "Bright Angels and Familiars", as well as other stories from here and there. It went very well. Two from Bela Petsco's "Nothing Very Important" collection were particulary popular. We also did a readers' theater of Neal Chandler's Huebner play that was printed in Sunstone. Last year the group reorganized, and becuase several members had to verying degrees left the Church, or were no longer members, it was decided that we would generally avoid readings on Mormonism per se, although the group remains, essentially, a "Mormon reading group." My wife Jenifer also founded a women's book group in 1997, made up of a younger group than the first group, and including more conservative members of the ward, although there was a lot of overlap with the first group. They read mostly novels. A few of them were Mormon-related, Judith Freeman's Set for Life, Paris Anderson's Waiting for the Flash, and Martha Beck's Expecting Adam. They didn't like the Freeman book much, while the response to Paris' novel was quite good. Actually, as a rule they didn't discuss the book for much more than a half-hour. Invariably, after Jen came home at 2 in the morning or so, she would report that they spent most of the night talking about their sex lives. You want frank discussions, hang out with the Pittsburgh 1st Ward women late at night. I hope to find a job in Pittsburgh someday so I can move back. I've enjoyed my book club experiences up to now (and hearing about Jenifer's), and I hope to push some more Mormon lit in ones I attend in the future. Andrew Hall Fukuoka, Japan - ------------------------------------------------- - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #714 ******************************