From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #772 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Tuesday, July 16 2002 Volume 01 : Number 772 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:11:22 -0600 From: "Todd Petersen" Subject: Re: [AML] Unbiased Presentation D Michael wrote: Since when is news reporting equivalent to storytelling? Answer: ever since they started calling them "news stories." - -- Todd Robert Petersen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:15:58 -0600 From: "Todd Petersen" Subject: Re: [AML] Thoughts on Art and Literature Writing is not a science. Science is a science. Writing is a craft, it's an art, but it's not a science. Some have thought literature followed some kind of algorithm and have written about it, but it doesn't. People put this idea forth in the late 19th century, when Johns Hopkins was really pushing graduate studies in American. Literature departments didn't want to look like book clubs, they wanted hard results like the chemists, so they wouldn't look like namby-pambies. Some modernists thought there could be a science of sorts connected with literature, but that didn't really pan out. - -- Todd Robert Petersen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:53:21 -0600 From: "Scott Parkin" Subject: [AML] Linda ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ (Review) Adams, Linda Paulson. _Prodigal Journey_ (volume 1 of Thy Kingdom Come series). 2000: Cornerstone (Salt Lake City). Trade paperback: 517 pages; $14.95. ISBN: 1-929281-05-6 A Rambling Intro ================== The lore of the Apocalypse has become popular recently in both film and literature, most notably in the evangelical Christian _Left Behind_ series. A staple of science fiction over the last forty years, this new crop of apocalyptic stories revolves around not just a technological devastation, but a religious one--*the* religious one--that ushers in the Millennium. Mormondom has its own apocalyptic movement that, while similar to the generalized Christian vision in most of the broad strokes, is decidedly different in many of the details. Both portray society as corrupt, with religious freedoms substantially curtailed by force of law. Both assume a general decline of both social and economic opportunity with increase in war as its inevitable result, often resulting in a cataclysmic doomsday scenario. Both describe a charismatic anti-Christ who leads the peoples' hearts astray just before taking their freedoms away and establishing Satan's kingdom on the earth. Both assume a small group of faithful who will suffer ultimate privation but survive with their religious hope intact. Both end with the heavens opened and Christ revealing himself in glory. But the Mormon apocalyptic vision adds a relatively unique element--a gathering of the faithful and the building of the literal foundations of the New Jerusalem, the city of God that will be restored to the earth at the Millennium. The Saints do not stand helplessly by as the world goes slowly down to hell, they actively combat that decline and establish a community of extreme righteousness in the midst of the chaos. Of course this Mormon utopia is built in Jackson County, Missouri in fulfillment of modern prophecy that the New Jerusalem will be built there. Add the uniquely Mormon belief that the Garden of Eden was originally founded in Jackson County, and the circle is completed--the faithful return to the paradise from which Man was first cast out, returning to live in the literal presence of their God after their difficult odyssey. While a few Mormons have dealt with a science fiction style apocalypse (Orson Scott Card's _Folk of the Fringe_ comes to mind), most of the Mormon apocalyptic novels have been end-times scenarios, speculations on the events that will presage the Second Coming. Most focus on political and social upheavals with characters used only as the links between scenes, usually offering a smug back-pat to the Mormons who know so much more than the rest of the world. In other words, they spend so much time rehashing the same paint-by-numbers, sef-congratulatory, event-driven, obvious, and politically right-wing doomsday scenarios that they forget to tell stories about real characters dealing with very difficult and uncertain times. By and large they're bad books. In my opinion. The Review Begins: Synopsis ============================= Which is why I approached Linda Adams' book _Prodigal Journey_ with a great deal of trepidation. I like Linda. I've read a few of her short stories and have quite enjoyed them. I've heard some of her thoughts on AML-List and have been intrigued. I've generally found her to be thoughtful and intelligent and I've come to respect her as both a person and a writer. So the fear that she had written just another wacky, right-wing politico-religious diatribe against the New World Order kept me from reading her book for a very long time. That and its substantial heft--517 pages in volume one alone. I didn't want to lose my respect for an otherwise really nice person. It turns out my fears were completely unfounded. I really liked this book, despite my strong inclination not to. _Prodigal Journey_ is a well-written, thoughfully presented, character-oriented exploration of how the hearts of men have turned cold in a future America. It is generally free of the easy moralizing and simplistic dismissals that characterize so many books in the apocalptic category, and takes a clean look at Mormon end-times lore through the viewpoint of a good-hearted young woman who comes from outside the Mormon community. Alyssa Stark is a child of a radically altered future America that has been devastated by both natural and man-made disasters that left Southern California a radioactive wasteland and utterly destroyed the eastern seaboard, causing the government to establish itself in the midwest under the direction of a powerful and charismatic president who uses the peoples' fear of further devastation to rewrite the Constitution. The new America created out of peoples' fears has made religion an ugly word and recast both policies and practices with few of the moral constraints that religion formerly imposed. Most drugs are legalized (and heavily taxed), public sexual experimentation is considered a basic human right, and young people are legally emancipated at age seventeen. Life seems generally good, though continuing mistrust of those with strong religious beliefs has caused many to renounce religion in favor of a sort of secular humanism. Alyssa Stark is part of the first generation to grow up in this new America that celebrates individual expression over communal good. She is a good-hearted child of a viciously controlling mother and an absentee father. She is the ultimate loner, intelligent and likable but cut off from loving relationships--with a fiercely independent mindset as its result. The novel follows Alyssa as she escapes her loveless home to go into the wide world, discovering that what she wants and what the world has to offer are largely different. As she deals with a series of difficult challenges she finds her heart changed, her expectations altered. As her situation worsens she feels completely cut off from any source of support until she feels utterly alone and abandoned. As she literally teeters on the brink of death she finds that her life has prepared her for powerful work, though she has no idea what that work might be. That her path should lead Alyssa to a suppressed Mormon community and a discovery that many of her friends are Mormons should be no surprise--this book is specifically intended for Mormon readers and is founded around speculation on how the uniquely Mormon Zion might come to be. Though this first volume focuses on the world in general through the viewpoint of a non-Mormon character, it also sets the stage (and begins the process) for a final gathering to Jackson County. It appears that the next volume in the series will bring Alyssa more directly into the center of this Mormon community--and, presumably, more directly speculate on what that community might look like. What I Liked ============== As I said before, this is a very well-written book. The author's style is smooth and readable and never interfered with my enjoyment of the story. Adams' prose ranges from unadorned and direct to vividly detailed and beautiful depending on the situation. The result was that the story never had to fight the author's excesses or deficiencies. This book is also deceptively engaging. Adams engages the reader by creating a thoroughly likable character then putting her through trials, with the result that I found it hard to put the book down. Though there are few "Wow!" moments, I found myself quite disappointed when midnight rolled around and I had to put the book down so I could go to bed. Despite its heft, I read the book in about three days, staying up quite late to finish it. Adams' use of a non-Mormon protagonist was a perfect choice, and gave her the ability to create a richly detailed socially decadent world with little of the judgment and moralizing that one would expect from a character with any kind of strongly religious background, and especially with a Mormon one. This kept the focus on the core issues of morality, social choice, and political expedience rather than on explicating a Mormon culture to those who are already familiar with it. That clean focus gave this a fresh, uncluttered feel. Though Adams would eventually draw a very familiar picture of a standard Mormon apocalyptic political sitution, she did so honestly and with an attention to details and reasons that made the storm-trooper/despotic overlord scenario far less interesting than its effects on Alyssa. By entering the Mormon community from outside, Alyssa is able to observe and comment in ways that an insider voice could not. That I kept interest in this novel despite its portrayal of a social/political vision that actively tires me is a testament to the overall skill and quality of Adams writing and storytelling. If you're inclined to accept that vision of the future then there is little in this novel to distract from its thoughtful, interesting, well-earned speculations. What Jarred Me ================ Which is not to say that this is a perfect novel. I was jarred fairly strongly, and found myself cringing at a number of the author's choices. This volume is divided into three sections (books). Where the first and third books are essentially a mainstream story set forty years in the future, the second book opens up with a huge amount of both scientific and political speculation that really jarred me, and that featured some of the least believable speculations in the novel--for me at least. I won't go into the details because I don't want to give away the plot, but I do want to warn you that this is a science fiction book--at least through the middle third. There is speculation on social science, political science, and medical technology, and once it starts it flows fast and heavy. Just be aware. The science fictional content kind of blindsided me. I commented already on the heft of this novel, and though this is an engaging read that kept me turning pages, it also could have been improved with a ruthless reduction edit that cut somewhere over a hundred pages from the final text. The author has a tendency to reiterate points several times when once would have been enough. It's the normal first-draft hesitancy that a good editor should have worked with the author to excise. Not a big problem, but it made an already substantial novel longer than it needed to be. Perhaps my only big disappointment with the novel was that it didn't feature a strong internal story arc. Alyssa didn't have a strong overarching goal that she was working toward; basically, her goal is to survive until the next day. She starts out trying to survive home life, then college life, then life in the slums, but she isn't really trying to accomplish anything substantial. I would very much have liked to see a unifying goal, a quest of sorts, to give more context and tension to how well she addresses the struggles that befall her. Remembering that this is the first of a three volume set, I suspect the big story arc will be introduced in volume 2--the character has now been set fully in context with a problem, and the next installment will help define the limits of that problem and the consequences of failure. Unfortunately, her placement at the heart of a series of epic events came so late in this first volume that it didn't serve as the strong unifying thread that I wanted earlier on. Not a critical flaw, but an element that left me just a little flat at the end. I liked Alyssa enough that I am still anxiously awaiting the next book in the series. Scott's Mormo-Political Rage ============================== I ranted about what I see as a limited Mormon social/political creative vision in my review of Gerald Lund's _The Freedom Factor_ so I won't do it again here. But this novel raised many of the same frustrations for me. I would really like to see a more varied speculation on social and political conditions. It can be argued, for example, that the Mormon tendency to rush to Jackson County and build a New Jerusalem isn't really supported in scripture. Both the Bible and the Doctrine and Covenants talk about that city coming down from heaven at the Millennium rather than being built before the Second Coming. And while I admit that I haven't researched modern revelation, the idea of the gathering to Jackson County seems more folklore than doctrine--yet that gathering in that place is a consistent element of Mormon apocalyptics. (If I got that wrong, I apologize. It may well be that we have explicit revelation saying that the Saints *will* gather to Jackson County prior to the Second Coming, but the majority of what appears in the D&C is at best vague on that notion and seemed oriented toward the specific community of Saints in the late 1830s. In either case my frustration is not with interpretation of scripture but rather with what I perceive as a narrow creative vision relative to how we tell stories about that speculation, and which details we choose to emphasize. I know--I'm building a list of angry people who will come back on me with a giant "So what?" when I eventually write my own novel of speculative apocalyptics, but I defend myself on the basis that whether I succeed at meeting my own goal or not, I'd still like to see a more varied set of stories that rely less on a commonly accepted set of events.) Part of this, I think, is the vast sense of incompletion that dominates the Mormon mindset as regards Missouri and Illinois. In both places we had nearly built our Mormon utopias, only to have them snatched from us by angry mobs and corrupt politicians. In both places we had established communities that were both socially progressive and politically powerful, yet both communities failed--largely due to circumstances beyond our control. Those stories were never completed, they just stopped. And I think that sense of a job left undone is part of what drives our desire to complete in fiction what we were unable to do in history. I hope the recent dedication of the temple in Nauvoo will ease that sense of incompletion somewhat. I know it does for me. After visiting Nauvoo in 2000 I was left with a sense of emptiness at our last great social failure that was largely assuaged when the new temple was dedicated. I'm not saying Mormons should move on, but I would like to see a more varied basis (or at least geography) for our utopias. Of course I also can't help but note that the Jackson County obsession specifically challenges the Salt Lake Valley obsession, and the prankster in me can't help but giggle a bit at anything that makes that socially overbearing Zion in the tops of Utah's mountains into a temporary stop on the way to the real Zion somewhere else--maybe in South Dakota or near Eau Claire, Wisconsin. Conclusions ============= In terms of Mormon apocalyptic lore, Linda Adams goes over a lot of familiar ground in _Prodigal Journey._ But she does so with more style, thoughtfulness, creativity, and freshness of vision than any other author I'm aware of in the category. Her emphasis on character and spiritual discovery makes her story unique and very much worth reading. It gets past most of the cultural noise to the core issues of individual hope and belief that should dominate our own thoughts. I heartily recommend it not only as the best in its class, but a worthy book in any class. Good stuff. I very much look forward to the next installment, and so should you. Linda Adams is a Mormon author to pay attention to. Scott Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 13:39:58 -0600 From: Russ Asplund Subject: RE: [AML] Mormon Utopias > From: Jacob Proffitt > > On the subject, I personally suspect that the 'best possible system' is > a kingdom ruled by a righteous king and a support/economic system > similar to our current church structure (which, I should explicitly add, > I suspect might contain imperfect implementations and need some > millennial modifications as well). > I was wondering when someone would point this out. The scripture even say that a kingdom, as long as their is a righteous king, is the best political system. The problem is, even a good a man as David had trouble staying a righteous king. That sort of power easily corrupts. But if we assume righteous people throughout the system---well, let's just say it's called the Kingdom of God for a reason. > I really dislike the whole capitalism = greed trope. I went so far > as > to pen an essay describing why that is just not so > (http://www.jacob.proffitt.com/Greed.html). Capitalism doesn't > *create* > greed, it cripples it. And capitalism can't violate the principles > of > charity and love, that requires agency. > I think you are on to something in the capitalism actually keeps a check on greed. I think that is the beauty of the American political/economic system--it provides buffers to our evil influences, and insures our power to choose righteous activity. At the same time, I have problems with capitalism, not because it is based on greed, but because it is based on scarcity. That is, in order to maximize profits it is necessary to _not_ supply everyone with what they need. When that product is VCR's that's not to big of an issue, but when you are dealing with cancer drugs their comes a point where you are saying the profit is worth letting some people die. That doesn't seem like an ideal situation to me. I think a utopian society would have something that looked like free markets, but without the reliance on scarcity and maximizing profits. Then again, I was born Canadian and may have some leftist leanings. candesa Russell Asplund director of research and development 801.426.5450 russa@candesa.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 14:03:21 -0600 From: "Scott Parkin" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Utopias Jacob Proffitt wrote: > You *had* to know I'd respond on this one :). I hoped you would, and I admit freely that I trolled specifically for your response (among others, not all of whom have responded yet...darn). > I'll bite. I don't think either capitalism *or* socialism bears much > resemblance to the way things will work in the millennium. But that's > just me. Socialism denies too much agency and capitalism allows too > much conflict and duplication of effort. Of the two, I think that > capitalism, assuming a foundation of freedom and the rule of law, is > more useful for the world as it is right now. But that's in the same > way that a representative democracy is the most useful for the world as > it is now--i.e. damage control for a world in a fallen state. Neither > is the way things will actually work once we're ruled by God. For my purposes, I actually was looking for a pre-Millennial sort of semi-utopic system created by Mormons well before any direct divine intervention occurs. In other words, what system might we build *right now* if conditions allowed, with Millennial reign as a future hope but not an immediate consideration? The Mormon mindset was once very interested in creating political/economic utopias, but that drive was mostly fueled by a desire to become independent of others, thus giving others less social/political power over how we governed ourselves. Then the goal changed from separation to assimilation, and we haven't seen much in the way of mainstream Mormon utopic vision since then. We've talked before about the various topics that different people are squeamish about, and one that I have no interest in speculating on is exactly how prophecy could be fulfilled (general timelines or specific events) or how government/economics/law might be run during the Millennium. Part of the reason I think the "end times" are so dominated by war is that whatever system is implemented by Christ will essentially require the ultimate failure of all other systems so that people are willing and able to scrap what went before to establish a new framework. But that's just my speculation. > The better model for the millennial > distribution of goods is to take the way the church is structured as a > model--decisive power is put on the lowest level possible (bishops) with > broad outlines and communication flowing from a central source. It seems like the biggest limitation of any system is not how the products are distributed, but rather the idea of policing fairness or equity. That's why prior experiments required the large central authority--the individuals can't be trusted to stick with the vision long enough to implement the benefits unless Big Brother constantly looks over their shoulders and makes sure they comply until the benefits of the system become self-evident and people see the importance of honest participation and do the right thing because it's right, not because they're afraid of consequence. Which is an interesting problem in creating a Mormon economic utopia. Given Clark Goble's comments on how the very term "utopia" is intended as a conceptual double-entendre that carries within its name the very impossibility of implementing itself, the vision still remains important. What if we could implement a near-perfect system? What would we have to do differently, and how would we need to think differently? How would we convince people to take a chance and participate. Because the Church is already seen by many as a social Big Brother who looks over our shoulders and attempts to coerce us into specific behaviors. Add economic (or political) coersion into that mix and it becomes exactly the anti-utopia that has become so popular recently. The Church becomes exactly the police that most of us are trying to avoid, and that changes our fundamental relationship. Can any egalitarian distribution system be set up that doesn't require a police force to ensure that it works as planned? If not, what limits does the system impose on its own police force to ensure that oppression does not take place--an absolute requirement in a system run by the Church and intended for the benefit of the people. Making the Church and the civil police the same thing seems like a formula for systematized abuse--unless we actually trust the system not to be abusive; a completely alien concept in modern times. > Well, with the problem that restrictive economies tend to restrict other > freedoms as well. Systems that centralize a lot of power are easier to > abuse and can change direction very quickly--meaning that you can't very > well trust the way things are because a small shift of power can have > wide-ranging shifts in policy. But if the only centralized power is economic, what's the potential for abuse? It seems like part of the failure of prior experiments was the all-or-nothing approach. All political, religious, and economic power was concentrated into the same central management agency. What if it were possible to create a separation of powers, such that the only purpose--and power--of the central distribution system was to get goods from one place to another to maximize cost to benefit while also ensuring complete distribution? No social police; no moral police; no political police. Just an agency designed to provide goods. Is such a thing even possible? I'm not sure it is, but I'm interested in speculations on why or why not. > One of the things I find interesting about having a millennial > government that operates similar to how the church does now, is that it > points out that we probably *could* practice something of an LDS utopia > and still remain *in* society. One of the things that Brigham Young was > *very* good at was to recognize the power of people pulling together. > Group negotiations and group effort are very powerful. He had an innate > grasp of co-op power. Given modern communication techniques, we could > unify our efforts in interesting ways right now. Group insurance? > Group purchases of supplies and collective distribution along already > proven channels. Intriguing possibilities there. > > This system has the appeal that the scriptures that *seem* to have us > isolating ourselves *can* be interpreted to mean that we work together > wherever we are. We cooperate economically and none can stand against > us. You can see a glimmer of that happening with the Perpetual > Education Fund. It wouldn't be too hard to map a line from that to > other collective action that doesn't require us to band together > physically. In fact the Perpetual Education Fund is one of the very things I've been looking at as a concept of a centrally managed agency designed to provide service to the broad body of the Church--wherever it is. It may not be possible to map a clear line between here and there, but the promise is so intriguing that I can't help but try. Scott Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 20:41:56 GMT From: daryoung@juno.com Subject: [AML] Education Week Get-Together Anyone up for an AML dinner outing the week of Education Week (August 19-23)? I think (selfishly) that that would be a great week to get together since some of us (well, me, anyway) will be in town. And by the way, is Thom (and company)'s new theater up and running yet? Will you be performing anything that week that I should plan on seeing? I saw Marvin Payne's and Steve Perry's _Wedlocked_ at Ed. Week a few years ago and really enjoyed it. I'm sad to see they won't be doing another this year. - -Darlene Young ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 16:42:11 -0600 From: "Jacob Proffitt" Subject: [AML] Conflict in Fiction (was: Satan Figures) - ---Original Message From: gkeystone@aol.com > > As writters, my partner and I have also pondered the question > of how stories, > especialy fiction, will be written in a time without > conflict, pain, sorrow, > and death. Since we suppose, hopefully so, that we will be > living and maybe > writting stories during the Millennium the question is more > than theoretical. Just because there's no conflict between people doesn't mean there won't be interesting things to write about--I think it was Jr. High English class where we discussed man vs. environment and man vs. himself. And there most assuredly *will* be pain and sorrow. Or do you think even Heavenly Father has no sorrow and pain? If nothing else, he has a passel of children that provide no end of anxiety--even the ostensibly good ones! (I've obviously been reading too much Georgette Heyer if I can stand to leave a stray exclamation mark or three in my posts!) And even if there's no *active* conflict, we'll have misunderstandings and limitations of ability and organization. Until we're omniscient we'll have plenty of things to set us on edge and provide juicy conflict. And personally, I have a lot of respect for a good-natured rivalry and would hate to have that disappear on me just because we're all working together. > And if writting will change then, should we change it now to > less model the > high action, revenge plots of much writing and most movie making? I'd certainly welcome a bit of exploration of good people honestly working together and the conflicts they experience. This world is built to provide us an uneasy existence and no matter how well-intentioned (or even well-unified) we are, it's going to take some work to get stuff done (darned entropy!). > I wonder too if Mormon left out much detail on the Golden > Years following > Christ's appearance to them knowing us well enough to > understand that we > would find descriptions of peace, joy, happiness for hundreds > of years a > boring read. Personally, I'm guessing that Mormon was thinking on a pedagogical level when making his editing choices. Not in a bad way, mind. He certainly had instruction in mind, at any rate, and there isn't a lot of information from a detailed description of utopian society that will be beneficial to us. I mean, their lives just aren't terribly applicable to us. Which would also explain why we *do* get so much detail for the couple hundred years of warfare and conflict immediately pre-Christ's visitation. Once we're actually *in* the Millennium, I'm sure we'll find out more. Although, come to think of it, a Millennial society doesn't really need a ton of guidance because most problems will be solvable with earnest and non-self-interested consideration and counsel. At least, I *think* they will be--haven't an first-hand experience you know. Jacob Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 19:18:18 -0700 From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Samuel TAYLOR, _Heaven Knows Why!_ (Review) Scott Parkin If you enjoyed Heaven Knows Why by Sam W. Taylor, you might want to read some of his non-fiction, non-mainstream works. Sam Taylor was the sixth child of the sixth wife of John Taylor the Mormon apostle who took four wives after the Manifesto. Sam Taylor has 35 siblings who were all the children of his father. The subject matter of his non-mainstream work was polygamy. Samuel Woolley Taylor spent much of his adult life trying to get his father's blessings restored. This feat he finally accomplished in the last decade of his life. The other books he wrote, besides those you mentioned, are: I Have Six Wives - 1956 Family Kingdom - 1974 The Kingdom Or Nothing - 1976 He also wrote an interesting book about the Uranium Rush, called Uranium Fever, I haven't read this one however, I have it somewhere amongst my books. When I was young, before I had ever met a Mormon, I read The Absent Minded Professor. This was a very fun book to read. Although he is not my favorite author, I do think he was a very fine writer, and his books have done much to help me understand the "Principle" and why some people on either side of the issue have felt so strongly about it. Sam Taylor was a wonderfully honest and down to earth human being. He was a personal friend of my wife's mother, and I have all of his LDS flavored books, three of which he autographed. One time, right after my wife and I were married, he came to our home for dinner. On another occasion he came to a book-club meeting at my mother-in-law's home and I had a chance to visit with him. Regards, Bill Willson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:21:40 -0400 From: Richard Johnson Subject: Re: [AML] Millennial Economics At 12:33 PM 7/13/02 -0700, you wrote: 6. The law of tithing was given to the Church to replace the United Order. >There is some scriptural indication that a tithe (10%) represents the >average amount that we would give back to the community (the excess over our >needs) if we were in the United Order. It may be that it is the only >effective way to operate the United Order in large scale economies. That's >another interesting thought to project in Scott's story. What if everyone in >the world paid tithing and it was all administered for the benefit of the >poor? > >Interesting thoughts, I hope. Tough assignment. Good luck Scott > >Richard Hopkins > Richard, what a lovely thoughtful alternative to hyperbole and generalization. This was somewhat the way I sensed the situation, but I lacked the knowledge and experience to really state it. Thank you and Amen. Richard B. Johnson, (djdick@PuppenRich.com) Husband, Father, Grandfather, Puppeteer, Playwright, Writer, Director, Actor, Thingmaker, Mormon, Person, Fool. I sometimes think that the last persona is the most important http://www.PuppenRich.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:01:49 -0700 From: JLTyner Subject: Re: [AML] "Choose the Rock" Great article. Thanks to R.W. for sharing it. As the article says it is possible to be both a rocker and an active, faithful member. In our Northiridge, California ward our Elder's Quorum Pres. belonged to a rock group called "Spaghetti Western" that we saw perform at The House of Blues on the Sunset Strip a few years ago. He is now Bishop Hollister of the Northridge 1st Ward, a rocker AND a Bishop, wow. BTW, Elvis gets a pass. He accepted, read and even made notes in the margins of the Book of Mormon that the Osmond family gave him as noted in Donny Osmond's autobiography, "Life Is What You Make It." After Elvis died, his father Vernon returned the BOM and eventually the Osmonds gave it to the Church. Yes, just imagine-Elvis was so close to accepting the Gospel and then he up and dies on us! He'd have been a bigger catch, then say, Steve Martin. ;-) Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 12:12:10 -0500 From: Linda Adams Subject: Re: [AML] Linda ADAMS, _Prodigal Journey_ (Review) Thank you, Scott, your review was kind, and I am refreshed to know you did like the book. This is a big plus for me! I do want to comment on this aspect, briefly: >I would really like to see a more varied speculation on social and political >conditions. [genre-wide] > >It can be argued, for example, that the Mormon tendency to rush to Jackson >County and build a New Jerusalem isn't really supported in scripture. Both >the Bible and the Doctrine and Covenants talk about that city coming down >from heaven at the Millennium rather than being built before the Second >Coming. And while I admit that I haven't researched modern revelation, the >idea of the gathering to Jackson County seems more folklore than >doctrine--yet that gathering in that place is a consistent element of Mormon >apocalyptics. Yes, Scott, you are absolutely right on all points. Scott also wrote in an earlier post: <> Right again! Yet while I agree with you, here I have written this book that does eventually follow down the same pathways as many others. I am glad to hear I win the "Best in Show" award. I *do* use a good deal of folklore in this series. I am sorry to say that when I began, I was unaware how much of it was folklore, but research quickly proved this point. It amazes me how, for a people who believe "the glory of God is intelligence," how little the general membership understands about the Last Days, and how few people actually do enough studying to find out the scriptural facts. I am first to state that I have no belief that what I have written/am writing in this series has any basis in fact or "what's really going to happen." I did try (fairly hard) to come up with a basic scenario that at least made much of the folklore tales and beliefs make a little *sense.* And yes, it is science fiction. Like you, I also found the existing apocalyptic literature severely lacking in imagination and hoped to present these things in a fresh, more logical light with focus on character. But the series still focuses on the folkloric gathering to Independence and establishing an earthly Zion/New Jerusalem (YES, I said "folkloric"). I think by the end, you'll like where I'm going. This was/is intended to be a trilogy with the story arc of a trilogy (a Mormon Star Wars? only better written I hope?). But I also believe that things are going to shake down much more simply than any of the literature suggests, and when it's all said and done we will re-read Revelation and go, "Oh. *That* was when such-and-so... okay, I see that now." If there is any mass gathering to Independence (15 minutes from my house), most of us who live here believe it will be due to the Prophet announcing our Temple, whereupon all the Utah crazies who *believe* in this Gathering will move here en masse. We locals also tend to believe this is one major reason that although we have 6 stakes in our metropolitan area, and St. Louis (and Nauvoo, and Winter Quarters) only have two (each), WE still don't have a local temple, even though we have enough membership to support one. We drive between 3-5 hours to get to any of these three closest temples. Perhaps I am wrong to perpetuate these "false" beliefs (I could be wrong about the "false" part, anything is possible) by writing a series that continues down the same path, but in many other ways there is such a thing as "giving the people what they want." Maybe my series can pave the way for yours, Scott. I'd very much like reading something that was completely different. Yet it is also my hope that by writing an LDS series that is compelling and well-done, I can encourage more Saints to think forward, beyond the basics of storing wheat, to purifying their hearts and creating a Zion on earth, right where we are, in each individual home. We are not studying enough. We (as a whole, culturally, etc.) are too concerned with the specifics of what may happen that we tend to forget the spiritual preparation necessary *today.* Are we ready? Are you ready? Am *I* ready? These are the things I hope my readers will think about. By the way, publication of Volume 2 is at a standstill. I am not sure how much detail I can or should go into here. (Richard? I'll leave that to you.) Linda Linda Adams adamszoo@sprintmail.com http://home.sprintmail.com/~adamszoo - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #772 ******************************