From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #791 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, August 2 2002 Volume 01 : Number 791 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 03:02:29 -0600 From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: [none] helo=ungeheuer) by falcon.mail.pas.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 17aQUf-0003RX-00 for aml-list@lists.xmission.com; Thu, 01 Aug 2002 17:40:38 -0700 Message-ID: <027e01c239bd$feb59370$0100a8c0@ungeheuer> From: "Scott Parkin" To: References: <002101c234d8$a91e22e0$39029b97@quark> <007f01c234fa$3aaefc90$6a159d40@MyLaptop> <008f01c23827$75385020$3793fe0c@c1759871b> Subject: Re: [AML] "Choose the Rock" Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:46:08 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: aml-list I can't help myself... This past week a nice, middle-aged couple in my ward sent their son off on his mission to Massachussetts. Their son had been a wrestling champion and they compared his hard work in becoming a star wrestler to becoming a star worker in the mission field. When his mother stood up to lead off the talks, she quoted the lyrics to "We Are the Champions" by Queen and used that song to establish a theme that all the other speakers addressed. A wonderful, faithful set of talks and a good missionary farewell. Inspiration is where you find it, and is powerful for each of us as individuals in deeply personal ways. Scott Parkin _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Aug 2002 03:16:11 -0600 From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: [none] g71FtEC37927 for ; Thu, 1 Aug 2002 08:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <200208010857300930.003E11C5@smtp.tns.net> X-Mailer: Calypso Version 3.30.00.00 (3) Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 08:57:30 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: [AML] ANDERSEN, _The Lost Tribe: Book of Mormon Sleuth 2_ (Review) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: aml-list Review ====== Title: The Lost Tribe -- Book of Mormon Sleuth 2 Author: C.B. Andersen Publisher: Bookcraft Year Published: 2002 Number of Pages: 259 Binding: Quality Paperback ISBN: 1-57008-842-X Price: $9.95 Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle The much-anticipated second volume in the "Book of Mormon Sleuth" series by C.B. (Carl) Andersen has finally arrived. Some of you will recall my enthusiasm for the first volume in the series, titled simply "Book of Mormon Sleuth." In that volume, we met the Andrews family, a typical Utah Mormon family, engaging in a quest for "buried treasure" -- buried, that is, in a copy of the Book of Mormon owned by an ancestor. In this volume, Andersen takes a different approach, but continues his quest for ways to make studying the Book of Mormon interesting to children. "The Lost Tribe" is told through the eyes of Jeff Andrews, one of the Andrews boys. Their father had won a vacation trip to Alaska, an exciting prospect for the family. When their airplane encounters problems and cannot take off, the passengers are offered alternative flights. But the Andrews family decides to stay on that plane. They, a man named Tom, and a small flight crew, constitute the entire population of the plane. The plane's navigational system fails, and they find themselves making a forced landing somewhere in the Arctic Circle, although they don't as yet know where they are. They encounter a strange "tribe" and find themselves in a very sticky situation, unable to communicate and guilty, it seems, of some transgression they don't yet understand. Turns out this "tribe" is one of the lost tribes of Israel! I won't go into how they figure this all out, not wanting to reveal all the details of the book. Suffice it to say that their adventures are hair-raising. Finding themselves in the midst of a serious tribal dispute, and fortunately discovering a young man who actually speaks a little English (an American they named "Christian" had similarly found his way into the tribal community, and lived among them long enough to teach them some English), the small group -- the Andrews family, Tom, and the flight crew -- must somehow find a way to escape the tribe and find some help. As I read, I wondered how this book would sound to a younger person. The sense of adventure and wonder in the book is, I believe, a great experience for a young LDS reader. Andersen is to be commended for writing a book that doesn't "speak down" to the young people. While the story has all the earmarks of an youthful adventure, it assumes a level of intelligence that, I believe, does the young reader justice. This fellow Tom emerges as one of the central characters in the book. I was gratified to see a non-Mormon playing such a key role in the adventure. In fact, the part of Tom represents something of a departure in Andersen's story-telling technique. Tom is a sympathetic and authentic character. Sadly, in a few places, Andersen fails to produce a believable dialogue between Tom and the Andrews family, between gentile and Saint. This problem is not unique to this book -- Mormon understanding of other religions is often no better than a non-Mormon's understanding of Mormonism. And when conversations are related in Mormon fiction, they often go beyond what is believable. Seeing through the eyes of a non-Mormon is a skill that involves a deep understanding of non-Mormon thought. Let's look at one example. To set it up, the family and Tom are still on the airplane. They've been discussing biblical matters with Tom, and are now talking about ordinances. The unfamiliar names are those of the Andrews children: Dad paused and Aaron began to turn to Jacob again, but turned back once more as Dad added, "Most of these ordinances are performed for both the living and the dead." My attention was caught by Tom's obvious shock over this last statement. "Do you perform baptisms for the dead?" he whispered. "As spoken of in the New Testament?" Dad answered quietly yet firmly. "Yes. We do." He was staring at Jacob as he spoke. "I've never heard of a church that followed all those biblical teachings," Tom replied. (p. 102-103) How likely is it that a non-Mormon would have this view of proxy baptism? How many non-Mormons feel that baptism for the dead is a "biblical teaching"? Fact is, non-Mormons find the practice a bit strange. And let it be said that contemporary Mormon scholars are reluctant to point to the single verse in Paul's first letter to Corinth to justify the practice. Instead, modern revelation is the key support. The discussion would have been more realistic had Dad pointed Tom to the verse in 1 Corinthians and explained how the Church understands that scripture. It was simply not believable that Tom, a non-Mormon, would consider proxy baptism a "biblical teaching." Another problem. Pages 138-139 contain a muddled dialogue about sabbath-keeping. Having lost track of time somewhat, the family can't decide whether it's Saturday or Sunday. They decide that it is indeed Sunday. The tribe is about to observe the sabbath. The question is asked: "...didn't the Israelites celebrate the Sabbath from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday?" "Maybe when Christian taught them about Christ, they changed their Sabbath to Sunday," Dad suggested. Problem is, it has already been established that the tribe at large had rejected the Messiah, were insistent on observance of the law of Moses, including daily animal sacrifices. Given the centrality of the seventh-day Sabbath in the Israelite economy, the idea that they would have yet embraced Sunday as their Sabbath is a bit much. I realize that a young reader will never notice the flaws I found. And, to be frank, they really don't detract from the enjoyment of the book. Nonetheless, Andersen would have benefited from submitting the text of his conversations with non-Mormons to ensure some level of credibility. This is a fine book. It will be enjoyed by young people and adults alike. And, like the first book, it will give parents and teachers new ideas about how to teach the Book of Mormon to young people. Get this book. It's only ten bucks, a real bargain in today's over-priced book market. I believe your young people will enjoy it, and you, too, will find it an enjoyable read. - ----------------------- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 20:42:25 EDT From: Derek1966@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] "Choose the Rock" In a message dated 8/1/02 05:20:01 PM, bmdblu2@attbi.com writes: << Then the Bishop who had been born and raised in Utah and had a very musical family, singers, pianists, and organists, called and told my daughter she could not play her guitar in the chapel. She was crushed, but she got over it, and so did we. We're all still active, the gospel is true. >> About 10 years ago at my BYU ward I was surprised to see a girl bring in her guitar to do the musical number in Sacrament meeting. More shocking, when she stood up to sing, the bishop pulled his guitar out from behind his seat (I hadn't seen it earlier) and stood up to play and sing with her. I asked him about this later, said I was so surprised to see that after having heard you couldn't do such a thing. He responded that the most important thing was letting this girl be able participate in the meeting this way. I admired his attitude. Must not have been too wrong, he was later called as stake president (or maybe that was his punishment?). John Perry Provo _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 08:57:30 -0700 From: "Jeff Needle" Subject: [AML] C.B. ANDERSEN, _The Lost Tribe_ (Review_ [MOD: This went out earlier without a proper subject line. Glitches in the system...] Review ====== Title: The Lost Tribe -- Book of Mormon Sleuth 2 Author: C.B. Andersen Publisher: Bookcraft Year Published: 2002 Number of Pages: 259 Binding: Quality Paperback ISBN: 1-57008-842-X Price: $9.95 Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle The much-anticipated second volume in the "Book of Mormon Sleuth" series by C.B. (Carl) Andersen has finally arrived. Some of you will recall my enthusiasm for the first volume in the series, titled simply "Book of Mormon Sleuth." In that volume, we met the Andrews family, a typical Utah Mormon family, engaging in a quest for "buried treasure" -- buried, that is, in a copy of the Book of Mormon owned by an ancestor. In this volume, Andersen takes a different approach, but continues his quest for ways to make studying the Book of Mormon interesting to children. "The Lost Tribe" is told through the eyes of Jeff Andrews, one of the Andrews boys. Their father had won a vacation trip to Alaska, an exciting prospect for the family. When their airplane encounters problems and cannot take off, the passengers are offered alternative flights. But the Andrews family decides to stay on that plane. They, a man named Tom, and a small flight crew, constitute the entire population of the plane. The plane's navigational system fails, and they find themselves making a forced landing somewhere in the Arctic Circle, although they don't as yet know where they are. They encounter a strange "tribe" and find themselves in a very sticky situation, unable to communicate and guilty, it seems, of some transgression they don't yet understand. Turns out this "tribe" is one of the lost tribes of Israel! I won't go into how they figure this all out, not wanting to reveal all the details of the book. Suffice it to say that their adventures are hair-raising. Finding themselves in the midst of a serious tribal dispute, and fortunately discovering a young man who actually speaks a little English (an American they named "Christian" had similarly found his way into the tribal community, and lived among them long enough to teach them some English), the small group -- the Andrews family, Tom, and the flight crew -- must somehow find a way to escape the tribe and find some help. As I read, I wondered how this book would sound to a younger person. The sense of adventure and wonder in the book is, I believe, a great experience for a young LDS reader. Andersen is to be commended for writing a book that doesn't "speak down" to the young people. While the story has all the earmarks of an youthful adventure, it assumes a level of intelligence that, I believe, does the young reader justice. This fellow Tom emerges as one of the central characters in the book. I was gratified to see a non-Mormon playing such a key role in the adventure. In fact, the part of Tom represents something of a departure in Andersen's story-telling technique. Tom is a sympathetic and authentic character. Sadly, in a few places, Andersen fails to produce a believable dialogue between Tom and the Andrews family, between gentile and Saint. This problem is not unique to this book -- Mormon understanding of other religions is often no better than a non-Mormon's understanding of Mormonism. And when conversations are related in Mormon fiction, they often go beyond what is believable. Seeing through the eyes of a non-Mormon is a skill that involves a deep understanding of non-Mormon thought. Let's look at one example. To set it up, the family and Tom are still on the airplane. They've been discussing biblical matters with Tom, and are now talking about ordinances. The unfamiliar names are those of the Andrews children: Dad paused and Aaron began to turn to Jacob again, but turned back once more as Dad added, "Most of these ordinances are performed for both the living and the dead." My attention was caught by Tom's obvious shock over this last statement. "Do you perform baptisms for the dead?" he whispered. "As spoken of in the New Testament?" Dad answered quietly yet firmly. "Yes. We do." He was staring at Jacob as he spoke. "I've never heard of a church that followed all those biblical teachings," Tom replied. (p. 102-103) How likely is it that a non-Mormon would have this view of proxy baptism? How many non-Mormons feel that baptism for the dead is a "biblical teaching"? Fact is, non-Mormons find the practice a bit strange. And let it be said that contemporary Mormon scholars are reluctant to point to the single verse in Paul's first letter to Corinth to justify the practice. Instead, modern revelation is the key support. The discussion would have been more realistic had Dad pointed Tom to the verse in 1 Corinthians and explained how the Church understands that scripture. It was simply not believable that Tom, a non-Mormon, would consider proxy baptism a "biblical teaching." Another problem. Pages 138-139 contain a muddled dialogue about sabbath-keeping. Having lost track of time somewhat, the family can't decide whether it's Saturday or Sunday. They decide that it is indeed Sunday. The tribe is about to observe the sabbath. The question is asked: "...didn't the Israelites celebrate the Sabbath from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday?" "Maybe when Christian taught them about Christ, they changed their Sabbath to Sunday," Dad suggested. Problem is, it has already been established that the tribe at large had rejected the Messiah, were insistent on observance of the law of Moses, including daily animal sacrifices. Given the centrality of the seventh-day Sabbath in the Israelite economy, the idea that they would have yet embraced Sunday as their Sabbath is a bit much. I realize that a young reader will never notice the flaws I found. And, to be frank, they really don't detract from the enjoyment of the book. Nonetheless, Andersen would have benefited from submitting the text of his conversations with non-Mormons to ensure some level of credibility. This is a fine book. It will be enjoyed by young people and adults alike. And, like the first book, it will give parents and teachers new ideas about how to teach the Book of Mormon to young people. Get this book. It's only ten bucks, a real bargain in today's over-priced book market. I believe your young people will enjoy it, and you, too, will find it an enjoyable read. - ----------------------- Jeff Needle jeff.needle@general.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:46:08 -0600 From: "Scott Parkin" Subject: Re: [AML] "Choose the Rock" [MOD: This went out earlier without a proper subject line. Glitches in the system...] I can't help myself... This past week a nice, middle-aged couple in my ward sent their son off on his mission to Massachussetts. Their son had been a wrestling champion and they compared his hard work in becoming a star wrestler to becoming a star worker in the mission field. When his mother stood up to lead off the talks, she quoted the lyrics to "We Are the Champions" by Queen and used that song to establish a theme that all the other speakers addressed. A wonderful, faithful set of talks and a good missionary farewell. Inspiration is where you find it, and is powerful for each of us as individuals in deeply personal ways. Scott Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:20:19 -0600 From: "Sharlee Glenn" Subject: [AML] Ron WOODS, _The Hero_ (Review) REVIEW Title: _The Hero_ Genre: Young Adult novel Author: Ron Woods Publisher: Alfred A. Knopf Year Published: 2002 Number of Pages: 215 Binding: Hardback ISBN: 0-375-80612-1 Price: $15.95 Reviewed by Sharlee Glenn This was a tough review to write--not because I didn't like the book, but because I COULDN'T KEEP MY HANDS ON THE DARN THING! When the review copy of _The Hero_ first arrived in the mail, my 13-year-old son pounced on it. "Cool, another book about a raft on a river," he said, then disappeared with it into the basement. When I asked him how he'd liked the book several days later, he said: "It was great!" When I asked him where it was, he said: "Uh, I think Patrick's reading it." After Patrick [my 11-year-old] finished it, he passed it to his 9-year-old brother who only got through chapter 2 before my husband spied it on the dresser and hid it in his nightstand so that he could read it in his spare time (which he seemed to find in abundance over the next few days, especially, I might add, when he was *supposed* to be helping me clean out our closet. "Wow, they should make this book into a movie," he once surfaced long enough to say while I glared at him over an armload of DI-bound dress shirts. When I finally laid hold of the book, I had to stash it under a stack of Good Housekeeping magazines whenever I wasn't reading it to keep it from the greedy paws of the remaining males in my family. But, alas, when I sat down to write the review this morning, the book had once again vanished. A thorough interrogation of all possible suspects revealed that my husband was the repeat offender. He had taken the book to church on Sunday to read to his class of deacons and had left it in his briefcase. As you might have gathered, _The Hero_ is a book that appeals to males. "Three boys. Two waterfalls. One raft. And a ride that will change their lives forever" reads the back cover. What testosterone-driven reader wouldn't be excited by that? But _The Hero_ is not just for boys. And it's not just an adventure story. It is a skillfully crafted, thoughtful, and often moving chronicle of a young boy's movement toward maturity. Throughout the course of the novel, 14-year-old Jamie comes to recognize the complex and often puzzling ambiguities of life. In this, _The Hero_ is reminiscent of that other great "raft on a river" novel, _Huckleberry Finn_. The parallels are obvious--the raft, the river, the journey, the themes of prejudice, community, and self-discovery. Ron Woods, an Administrative Assistant to the Dean of the College of Humanities at Brigham Young University, is a very able writer. Although _The Hero_ is his first novel, he handles such elements as dialogue, character development, foreshadowing, and pacing with the ease and confidence of a seasoned craftsman. His language is fresh and lively--and very much in keeping with the tone of the novel: "But the thought of having to deal with Arlie Leeper or his fence--I'd rather shampoo a porcupine," says Jamie at one point. And later, Jamie comments: "Right then, I was sure you could've hid Arlie's brain in a gnat's hind end with room to spare." The setting of _The Hero_ is the small community of Union on the Payette River in Idaho. It is the summer of 1957, and Jamie and his older cousin, Jerry, are busy building a raft. The last thing they want is to have their dweeby neighbor, Dennis, hanging around. But Jamie's parents insist that the boys include Dennis, and they finally consent to let him hold the rope as they take the raft out on the river. What happens next will test the physical, mental, and moral strength of all three boys in ways they could never have imagined. _The Hero_ is an interesting blend of hair-raising suspense and a sort of quiet, philosophical introspection. In the hands of Ron Woods, it's a combination that works. My one complaint about the novel is that the ending seemed contrived to me. Let me explain. I almost got the feeling while reading the book that the story had originally gone one direction and then had later been changed, perhaps at the urging of an editor, and most certainly so that it would seem less manipulative, less moralistic, less predictable. The problem is, the very effort to avoid predictability produced, in my opinion, an ending that seems somewhat forced and not entirely fulfilling. My 13-year-old son's comment was: "I really, really liked the book-- but I wish it would have ended *this* way." I agree. The *other* ending would have been much more satisfying and, I believe, ultimately moving for the book's targeted audience (young readers, particularly, young male readers). But the ending notwithstanding, _The Hero_ is a powerful, finely crafted story. Should you read it? Absolutely. Just keep your hands off my copy! - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 18:49:12 -0600 From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: [AML] English Departments Etc. ___ Thom ___ | "What is wrong under one situation can be, and often is, right | under another situation." What is less absolutist than that, | a saying that suggests that marrying a married man may under | certain conditions be wrong but may be correct if God commands | it? ___ One can make the statement Joseph made and still be an absolutist. Indeed even in traditional ethics that was true. It is wrong to kill, but we make exceptions for self-defense. Absolutism *isn't* the view that what is wrong varies with situation. Rather it is the view that for any particular situation there is *one* correct choice. i.e. that there is a truth about the matter. Even in postmodernism I think that there are many absolutists. They may point out that things are much more complex and interrelated than traditional modernists think. They may feel that the attempts by which modernists "ground" things by argument are impossible. Relativism is what is usually opposed to absolutism. This is the idea that what is right or wrong is *controlled* fully by me. It is a creation of man. As I said it is typically a "boogey-man" in philosophy who has no real adherents. However in the humanities it does have many adherents. I'd once again suggest that this movement arose not out of postmodernism but out of anthropology and that its conquest of English departments preceded the fad of postmodernism by a few decades. In fact relativism is just skepticism believed. I've made all these defenses of postmodernism now - even the political kind. Let me suggest that the real problem is a kind of unrecognized aporia in English departments. They require one to believe a paradox. English departments like to believe that they espouse or at least uncover a kind of truth. Perhaps the way in which they uncover it isn't the same as the sciences or philosophy. But they like to believe that _The Bonfire of the Vanities_, _War and Peace_ or other such texts have truths. Yet when we try and uncover what they mean by this, we quickly run into all sorts of problems. The "truths" are "truths" about the human experience. Yet these "truths" are clearly pluralistic. Further one is required to accept all of these truths simultaneously. Thus a work of fiction written which has a "truth" that contradicts an other work of fiction isn't a problem. Both are equal truths of experience. This maps up quite well with the cultural relativism that became part of anthropology. In opposition to the cultural imperialism of the preceding century, anthropologists came to view each culture's "truths" as valid for that culture. The parallel to "truths" of fiction is obvious. Not only are "truths" about behavior, but even about cosmology and other related things. It is in this context, for instance, that we have serious claims about the phallocentric nature of gravity. (And these feminist critiques occurred well before the rise of postmodern criticism - although one continues to find them expressed with the jargon of PM) Why do I bring this up? Well allow me to return back to the topic of the list: Mormon Letters. This view of relative truth (which is quite independent of PM) is used to deal with scriptures. Thus the Book of Mormon can be fiction but still be "true" in this sense we find in anthropology or Literature. Now the problem English departments have, and which Jacob alluded to, is that by adopting postmodernism they unfortunately picked up the very tool that deconstruct that ground of a literary truth. At best we fall back on a pragmatic truth, as per Richard Rorty. Yet pragmatic truths rely on "what works" and not the kind of relativism that English departments need. Further the fall back to close readings and *defensible* logical discourse is also against their desire. First off that requires a great deal of skill and work. Secondly it means that not all readings are possible. Now if English and Literature departments (and perhaps related disciplines) would just admit that they don't deal in truth and quit throwing the term around I think all would be well. However they need to keep this sense that they are defending the truth. This takes place all the while as their criticism undercuts their own foundations more and more. What is left is a Kafkaesque situation in which they speak jargon without meaning. It doesn't matter whether the jargon is postmodern criticsm, New Criticism of the early 20th century, Speech Act theory, Freudianism or whatever. The point is that what is said is irrelevant to what is done. But this *isn't* a problem of postmodernism. It is a problem that they haven't *accepted* what they use. At least the theory of the early 20th century gave them some leg to stand on. It even explained why Marxist theory or Freudian theory or the other remnants of 19th century materialistic social philosophy was so popular in English departments. It was their claim for a possible defense for how Literature is true. Once those went out of vogue (mainly under the attack of postmodernism) they had to continue to proclaim their message while adopting the language of what destroyed their foundations. Nietzsche's madman couldn't have said it better. The God of these people is dead, their departments are his sarcophaguses. Yet they continue to proclaim it alive and act as his prophet. That leads to the situation like _1984_ where they proclaim one thing while doing its opposite. The problem is that even if you 100% eliminated postmodernism from English and related departments you'd not solve a single thing. The problem is that it is a subject that is inherently subjective and thus completely prone to being a popularity contest. The problem is that while the politics reflect this reality the rhetoric does not. Its just that when the critics see the reality they don't notice that the rhetoric isn't its cause. - -- Clark Goble --- clark@lextek.com ----------------------------- - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 19:01:55 -0600 From: "Steve" Subject: Re: [AML] Recycling Songs (was: Choose the Rock) on 7/31/02 8:53 PM, Nan McCulloch at mcnandon@hotmail.com wrote: > Zoglin cited Paul Simon's struggle to write new music for his musical = > _The Capeman_, "only to see it bomb with the critics and at the box = > office." Then Abba let other artists take their hit songs, "graft them = > onto a flimsy story about a girl looking for her real dad on her wedding = > day and turned _Mamma Mia!_ into a smash hit on Broadway--and just about = > everywhere else in the Western world." Apparently theater goers have = > "fallen in love with rock--so long as it's retro." "Rent" did pretty well recently, but I agree otherwise. So, if we can just fit "Each Cooing Dove," "Like Unto Us" and a song or two from "Promised Valley" together, we'll have the ultimate Mormon retro review. :-) Steve - -- skperry@mac.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 19:24:24 -0600 From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: [AML] English Departments Etc. I know I've written more than probably most will read. But I think I ought to post a links that give a historic example of what I'm saying. I just found this googling, so they aren't really part of anything systematic. http://www.cogweb.net/steen/Politics/PatrickSand.html The report of a conference that deals with just what Jacob brought up. It rather illustrates my point since much of the terminology becomes convoluted. Critics of postmodernism Katha Pollitt and Barbara Ehrenreich and Alan Sokal who are liberals and even Marxists are called "left conservatives." This liberal conservatism is then considered equivalent to Rush Limbaugh. While not focusing on it too much the author seems to suggest that we have two bands of liberals competing for who has the right to the mantle of the sixties. (Which for them is a badge of honor) Especially note how the attacks *on* postmodernism come from _The Nation_ and _The Socialist Review_. - -- Clark Goble --- clark@lextek.com ----------------------------- - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 19:31:32 -0700 From: "gae lyn henderson" Subject: Re: [AML] English Departments Etc. - ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Thom Duncan" Reply-To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:17:39 -0600 >> But I also recognize that postmodernism has some serious weaknesses that >> make it harmfully non-LDS as well--like the absence of even potential >> absolutes or standards. > >You do not refer, of course, to Joseph's words to Nancy Rigdon in his >attempt to get her to accept his proposal for plural marriage (paraphrased): >"What is wrong under one situation can be, and often is, right under another >situation." What is less absolutist than that, a saying that suggests that >marrying a married man may under certain conditions be wrong but may be >correct if God commands it? > >Thom Or if one interprets the burning in the bosom to mean that God has commanded it. Gae Lyn - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 21:02:39 -0500 From: lajackson@juno.com Subject: [AML] Re: "Choose the Rock" Richard Russell: Are there some chords that would NEVER be appropriate? Is that the same with words? _______________ Ooooh. I'm afraid the words trump it in this case. (Some musicologists have questioned whether or not the lost chord might fall into this category). While there would never be an inappropriate chord, in and of itself, there are some situations where a chord, any chord, would not be appropriate, but that would not be the chord's fault. It would be a situational thing again. Sort of like if the organist leaned on the keyboard during the bishop's talk. The chord would be ok (might even be from the closing hymn), but the placement of the chord into that situation would be ill-timed. But some words? Oo la la! Right you are. Here's a funny story about using music in the wrong place. But maybe it was in the right place, because the purpose was to create humor, which the music did because it was in the wrong place. Can words do that? Be right and wrong at the same time? On one of the academy award broadcasts (in the 70s, I think), the value of usually unnoticed background music was being demonstrated. A film clip of a skier sliding down a hill was quite boring and routine, until exciting sounding music was added, ratcheting up the tension with good effect (probably that mysterious E minor chord we've heard so much about lately). Then followed what was announced as an example of using background music in a very inappropriate manner. In this clip, John Wayne stood at one end of a dusty western main street ready to have a shootout with the really, really bad, bad guy. After appropriate establishing shots of the two men, the terrified women on the sidewalk pressed up against the wooden front of the general store, some neighing horses and a tumbleweed (cliches and filler -- just can't do a good story without cliches and filler, can they?), the camera closed in on our hero like a voice from of the dust, er, sorry, from street-level, until John Wayne's towering image nearly filled the screen. Suddenly, the brass section of the orchestra began ripping out a rousing rendition of the theme from The Stripper. The audience became quite uncontrollable. A commercial followed. I've never forgotten the film clip, and I've never remembered the commercial. Gotta run. Hope those bullets are fake. (Where's that PowerPoint slide when I need it?) Oooh, ouch! Larry Jackson ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Aug 2002 20:16:48 -0500 From: lajackson@juno.com Subject: [AML] Re: Programs for Poverty Eric, Jacob, Jonathan, Paris and others have have made excellent comments concerning this subject. Here are a few additional notes from the Church Handbook of Instructions which will shed additional clarifying light on the subject. The Handbook says members may use appropriate services in the community to meet their basic needs. . . . The bishop should become familiar with the resources that are available in the community and teach members to maintain gospel standards while using such services. When deciding what welfare assistance to give, the bishop determines whether members are receiving assistance from government or other sources. Bishops should be careful not to duplicate welfare assistance. These two paragraphs, under the heading "Use Appropriate Resources in the Community," come from CHI, page 15, and have never appeared in the Handbook before. Also within those ellipses up there is a short list of services that may be appropriate to use. The list includes professional counselors and some others who are able to provide high-maintenance quality needs. Often, these services are provided by government resources. The Handbook is clear that these resources may be used appropriately, but that the priority is still to achieve self- reliance, turning first within ourselves, then to our family and to the Church. A bishop who understands how the Lords intends to provide for his Saints will know whether or not, and when, these resources will be a blessing or a curse to the members of his flock. We've seen in this thread, sadly but not unexpectedly, that some bishops are still learning these principles, even though these principles are outlined quite clearly in the scriptures and in the Handbook. A book could be written on the subject, but I believe it would mostly contain individual experiences, many quite interesting, and none of assistance to a poor, struggling bishop who is trying to figure out how best to help the member who has gotten into a pickle with a set of problems the bishop hasn't seen before. The bishop wouldn't have time to read it, anyway. Understanding the principles and then listening to the Spirit is the only way out of that kind of a situation. If he attends his stake meetings, a bishop will get a chance quarterly to trade notes with the other bishops in the stake. If that meeting is handled properly, the bishops will be well schooled in assisting members in need. Larry Jackson ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #791 ******************************