From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #809 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, August 23 2002 Volume 01 : Number 809 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:17:05 -0600 From: "Paris Anderson" Subject: Re: [AML] Postmodernism The term postmodernism beings to mind Elvis impersonators. I wasn't too hot on Elvis, and Elvis impersonators are rediculous. Paris Anderson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 20:33:27 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: [AML] re: Mormon Plays (Andrew's Poll) I forgot this: I would love to see a first-class professional production of I AM JANE. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:12:27 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] _Possession_ (Movie) At 02:12 PM 8/19/02 -0700, you wrote: >I guess we'l have to wait for wide release=97August 30th--but for some >reason, I'm not too optimistic that Possession, directed and co-written >by a BYU grad and starring another BYU grad, will show up in a Utah >County theater. A writer on one of my romance writers lists is a fan of Neil LaBute, and she is very excited about seeing this movie. She loved the book it's based on. I enjoyed the book for the most part, but I didn't quite understand the ending. Perhaps my brain rejected it because it was not unambigously happy! (Call me unsophisticated. I don't care.) barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:08:14 -0700 From: "Kim Madsen" Subject: RE: [AML] High School Literature Curriculum Regarding Eric's question of kids thinking things are "uncool", dated, funny-- Eric's reported experience of kids being derisive of West Side Story has not been my experience. Same goes for The Outsiders and Catcher in the Rye, but I must admit to hanging out with unusual teens, I guess. Because my husband and I were very involved in theater all during my kids younger years, they (and the friends they acquired, which were usually based through theater) were exposed to A LOT of musicals, and learned to appreciate the cultural climate the works were originally created in and accepted them on those terms. They found the parallels with WSS and ROMEO AND JULIET to be fascinating. They thought the stories were moving, even if the settings were not "modern". But then all three of my kids and most of their friends were voracious readers, loving Jane Austen, gothic romances like FRANKENSTEIN, old movies, in fact most movies including musicals and bizarre modern movies like Christopher Guest's mockumentaries. (I still have a 14 year old, but the other two are 24 and 21). This broad exposure to stuff led to some uncomfortable moments along the way. I admit to feeling sheepish that my three year old quoted lines from Monty Python's THE HOLY GRAILLE at inappropriate times. Nothing like hearing your kid note that Sister So-and-So of the imposing bosom had "huge tracts of land" in sacrament meeting, and in a British accent no less. On the more normal side, they played lots of video games as well, particularly liking WWF and Soul Caliber, lots of sim computer games. So in many ways they were ordinary teens, but had a lot of exposure to theater, both musicals and stage plays, movies and all different types of literature. Maybe it's the breadth of stuff teens are familiar with that make them accepting of "dated" material. To me it's a sign of immaturity (what else should we expect from teens?)and the need for further education that makes someone "hoot" at West Side Story. In the meantime, maybe they should be exposed through film to "Clueless" first, then "Emma", then "Romeo and Juliet" (maybe the DiCapprio weird version) then West Side Story. Might make a great discussion of how artists through the ages have told and retold the same stories trying to make them accessible to different audiences. Kim Madsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 01:25:33 EDT From: OmahaMom@aol.com Subject: Re: [AML] Church History Recommendations? You know, when introducing a non-member to the gospel through books, it's probably more the Spirit whether a book takes or not. Bro. Lund has gotten letters from people who investigated & joined the Church after reading TW&TG. On the other hand, I picked up a book in the base library in FL and as a result, investigated & joined the Church. A few years later, I reread the thing, and couldn't figure out what had impressed me so much about it. It was not very well written, nor did it explain the gospel very well. Even as I was investigating I was picking up and reading some anti- stuff which was also in the library. The only thing that struck me about that was that it seemed like the author was trying too hard. Now admittedly, I was 18 at the time, and looking for the gospel, not trying to analyze literature. But what matters is what they're able to be receptive to at this time of their life. Perhaps, with all of the suggestions, the next thing is to make a couple choices & pray about whether they're the right ones for this investigator. Karen Tippets - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 22:00:25 -0700 From: Julie Kirk Subject: [AML] Call for Artists I had brought this up on the AML list a couple months ago, but am sending out a reminder for anyone interested in either participating in some way (as an artist or volunteer), or even in just coming out to the event to see the work. Festival di Ragazze, an Italian Street Painting festival, will be held in Provo over Labor Day weekend at The Shops at Riverwoods. There is a webpage up for Project Kids USA, which is the organization that proceeds from the festival benefit at http://www.projectkidsusa.org There is also a link on that page to the festival, though the webpage is barebones right now. You do not have to be a professional artist to participate, nor do you need to have street painted before. If you would like to either paint a square, or be a volunteer at the festival or for Project Kids, just go to the website where you will find the contact info. At this point there are maybe 15 professional street painters coming out from California to do paintings. There are 20 or 30 local artists participating in the festival and I know they are looking for more artists and volunteers. I'll be working on the main featured piece, a painting approximately 15x25', along with a few friends. The other California artists are all working on pieces anywhere from 8x12' to 12x12'. It's a pretty incredible sight, and well worth a visit. If you are interested in painting but are unsure what to do, there will be several workshops held prior to the event. This coming Friday evening in downtown Provo I'll be working on a small kids' oriented piece, where children help complete the border of the painting, and Saturday morning is the first workshop. anyhow, hopefully some of you willbe able to make it out or, even better, be a participant! there is more info on streetpainting in general at http://www.streetpainting.net if you are interested in the art. thanks! Julie - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 15:05:30 -0700 From: "jana" Subject: [AML] Contacting Reviews Editor Hi folks: I'm moving on Friday, and while that shouldn't be of concern to most of you, I just wanted to put the word out in case I am hard to get hold if for a little while. Also, if you've been slated to review a book but haven't received your copy in the mail, please drop me a line. If you need my new mailing address (e.g. to send me a review copy of your latest novel), please email me privately and I will send it to you. Thanks! Jana Remy AML-List Review Editor www.enivri.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 01:48:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] _Possession_ (Movie) Greg Taggart: > I guess we=92ll have to wait for wide release=97August 30th=97but for > = > some > reason, I=92m not too optimistic that Possession, directed and = > co-written > by a BYU grad and starring another BYU grad, will show up in a Utah > County theater. > (Speaking as a film critic.) So far, we can't get the distributor to give us even a hint of when the film will play ANYWHERE in Utah. The Aug. 30 "wide release" date really means "wider release"; it still won't be as generally available as, say, "Blue Crush." It makes no sense, given the local connection to "Possession," and if e-mails I've gotten are any indication, there's a fair amount of interest in it, too. But if it were up to me which movies played where, "Possession" would have opened here already, and "Serving Sara" would never open anywhere except in hell. Eric D. Snider - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 18:45:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] _The Poet and the Murderer_ on C-SPAN's "Booknotes" Brian Lamb interviewed Simon Worrall, author of "The Poet and the Murderer", on the popular C-SPAN program "Booknotes" on August 18. Here's the transcript: http://www.booknotes.org/Transcript/?ProgramID=1689 "The Poet and The Murderer" is the most recent book on the Mark Hoffman case. And I believe it's the first book with substantial LDS themes to be featured on "Booknotes" (not the most felicitous choice, to be sure.) Worrall is a British, non-LDS journalist who became interested in the case because of Hoffman's skillful Emily Dickinson forgery. His book repeats the conventional wisdom of secular sophisticates: Joseph Smith was a con man, the Mormon church is a totalitarian organization not unlike the old Soviet Union, etc., etc. What is new and weird is Worrall's tone of almost hero-worship of Hoffman: he was a Promethean genius on the same level as Dickinson, a Professor Moriarty-Hannibal-Lecter-type figure who defied the oppressive Mormon/Utah power elite. (Instead of a sadistic little nerd-boy who took pleasure in tricking the people who trusted him, and finally committed two savage murders rather than face up to what he had done.) In the "Booknotes" interview Worrall sounds more conciliatory about the church, and says that he had to look at it "through Hoffman's eyes." It's a very well written book, with literary and cultural ambitions beyond the typical "true crime" opus. But on Mormonism, it's just sensational, and wrong. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:17:03 -0500 From: Major Productions Subject: Re: [AML] Brigham's Theater Thanks to Bill Brown, Richard Hopkins, Thom Duncan, Eric Samuelsen and R.W. Rasband for taking the time to point me in the right direction. As soon as I sent the query to the loop, a back hoe cut the cable that is my link to the Internet, so I have been sitting around for two weeks without access.... Robbin Major. Missouri City, TX - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 05:26:34 -0500 From: "kumiko" Subject: [AML] Re: Box Office report - correction Aaron Eckhart is listed by "Master of Disguise". That line shouldn't be there. He is only in "Possession." - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 06:37:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Ed Snow Subject: [AML] Hymns Celebrating Polygamy--Update Years ago on this list I wrote an essay for my old AML-List column ("The Mormon Embrace of Pluralism (Wives that is)"--now in my _Curious Workmanship_ book) in which I asked whether in the days of yore Latter-day Saints sang hymns or otherwise expressed themselves artistically to promote polygamy. Here's an update. While attending the SLC Sunstone Symposium this month I inadvertantly came across such a hymn--"The Reformation" published in The Deseret News, vol VI, No. 38, Wed, 26 Nov. 1856. In fact we sang it at one of the plenary sessions. Here are some of the lyrics for your enjoyment from the handout we received--I have no reason to doubt the historicity of these lyrics, but someone can go check the source if it doesn't seem strident enough for you. 4th Verse: "We ought our Bishops to sustain, Their counsels to abide, And knock down every dwelling Where wicked folks reside: We ought our Teachers to respect, Not give them looks nor snubs; And keep our ditches free from pots, Likewise from stinking tubs." 5th Verse: "Now Sisters, list to what I say, With trials this world is rife, You can't expect to miss them all, Help husband get a wife! Now, this advice I freely give, If exalted you would be, Remember that your husband must Be blessed with more than thee. Then, O, let us say, God bless the wife that strives And aids her husband all she can T' obtain a dozen wives." Ed Snow ===== Read free excerpts from _Of Curious Workmanship: Musings on Things Mormon_, a Signature Books Bestseller at http://www.signaturebooks.com/bestsell.htm __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 04:56:09 -0500 From: "kumiko" Subject: [AML] Box Office Report Aug. 16 Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) Weekend of August 16, 2002 Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com [If table below doesn't line up properly, try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier - Ed.] Natl Film Title Weekend Gross Rank LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor Total Gross Theaters Days - --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 9 Master of Disguise 3,163,909 2,137 17 Perry Andelin Blake (director) 30,288,416 Aaron Eckhart (actor) 13 Possession 1,575,214 270 3 Neil LaBute (writer/director) 1,575,214 Aaron Eckhart (lead male actor) 17 Minority Report 564,101 506 59 Gerald Molen (producer) 129,115,416 38 The Divine Secrets of the 85,469 122 73 Ya-Ya Sisterhood 68,684,817 36 ESPN's Ultimate X 61,424 34 101 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 3,858,983 62 Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man 28,114 8 836 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 13,792,792 68 China: The Panda Adventure 19,721 6 388 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 2,776,037 78 Galapagos 10,813 5 1025 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 13,626,159 87 Ziggy Stardust & Spiders from Mars 4,396 4 40 Mick Ronson (2nd billed actor) 70,199 106 The Other Side of Heaven 2,018 3 248 Mitch Davis (writer/director) 4,683,217 John H. Groberg (author/character) Gerald Molen, John Garbett (producers) 109 Mark Twain's America 3D 1,203 1 1508 Alan Williams (composer) 2,262,215 POSSESSION: BYU graduate Neil LaBute's fourth feature film "Possession" opened with impressive figures. The film came in at #13 for the weekend - apparently low for an opening weekend of a major film with a couple of well-known lead actors like Gwyneth Paltrow and LaBute's fellow BYU graduate Aaron Eckhart. But this was a limited release. A close look at the numbers shows that the film played in a mere 270 theaters - a very limited release for a major studio opening weekend - and based on its $5,834 gross income per theater, it appears quite likely that the film will more widely released very soon. For comparison, the blockbuster hit "Signs" which came in at the #2 slot for the weekend pulled in $5,790 per theater, but it played in 3,344 theaters. "Possession" ranked in the Top 10 movies this week for per-theater gross. COMING UP NEXT, the limited nationwide release of Latter-day Saint director Blair Treu's "Little Secrets" (previously titled "The Secret Keeper"). The family-friendly film that manages to entertain both children and adults actually had its official premiere last night (August 19th) at the Salt Lake Children's Film Festival. There have also been several preview screenings in various locations across the Wasatch Front, with response from those attending being very positive - including from LDSFilm.com co-webmaster Thomas C. Baggaley. The actual nationwide release date is this Friday, August 23rd. MASTER AT THE BOX OFFICE: Director Perry Andelin Blake feature film "Master of Disguise", starring Dana Carvey, reached a U.S. box office gross of over $30 million this week. This means that "Master of Disguise" passed Neil LaBute's "Nurse Betty" to become the top-grossing (at the box office) non-animated dramatic feature film directed by a Latter-day Saint ever (or at least as far as we have records for). ("Master" is still surpassed by 2 feature documentaries and 3 animated features.) In its third weekend of release, "Master of Disguise" ranked 9th at the box office nationwide. In related news, Roger Ebert reported in his "Movie Answer Man" column that the folks at RottenTomatoes.com told him "Master of Disguise" is the worst-reviewed film they have any record of. SPENCER CHRISTENSEN, Salt Lake City-based filmmaker and current University of Utah film student, has posted an impressive and highly energetic trailer for his upcoming short film "Nowhere to Run." Premise: A man is selected to win the Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes, but he is in the Witness Protection Program. Check it out: http://www.mecworks.com/~spencer/video/no_where.mov - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:47:22 -0400 From: "Amelia Parkin" Subject: Re: [AML] Institutional Repentance This is in reply to Scott Parkin's reply to Thom Duncan (sorry there was no way I could see to easily paraphrase): I don't think that what Thom was trying to assert was that everything about the civil rights movement was good. And while I do agree in principle with most of what Scott has said, I would caution everyone against deciding that just because there may have been people participating in the civil rights movement in order to gain certain political ends--whether they be communist or libertarian or whatever they were--does not mean that they were participating for the wrong reasons or that they had ulterior motives. It only means they had ulterior motives if (and only if) their objective was simply to wreak havoc on the world and society for the sake of wreaking havoc rather than in order to achieve what appeared to them to be a good. The argument that Scott put forward in the first part of his post reminded me (unpleasantly) of the old (maybe not old--it may still be in use) BYU American Heritage text book which posed the question (in a practice exam) "why did students protest against the Vietnam War?" and then out of several answers including that the students felt it was an imperialist war, that the students didn't want to lose their own lives, that the students were pacificists, etc., gave the answer "they were bored" as the correct answer. Now I hope desperately that it was a typo. But I fear that it was not. I fear that what happened there was a personal prejudice was used as a fact. Of course, they were simply young students, tired of studying and wanting to havea good time so they caused as much trouble as they could. How horrible to cheapen the convictions and efforts to make those convictions known by the protesters of that war. And to cheapen them only because the person who wrote the text disagreed personally. While we may disagree with a person or a group's motives for the political or social actions they take, we must at least recognize that such disagreement does not automatically mean that those we disagree with do not have a moral cause underlying their actions. And those who write history, whether it be through a fictional or a factual medium, have a moral obligation to at the very least acknowledge the complexities involved in any historical situation. So, regardless of who made the comment, condemning the civil rights movement as a "communist plot" seems to me a bit simplistic. And condemning something just because it *is* a communist plot is downright deplorable. condemning it because it's immoral or because the people leading the "plot" are only power-mongers is another story. But just because someone or something is communist or libertarian or liberal or conservative does not automatically brand it as good or bad--that cannot be done until we know the intentions underlying that person's actions. [Amelia Parkin] _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:02:38 -0600 From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] High School Literature Curriculum On Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:32:21 EDT, Cathrynlane@cs.com wrote: > As we talk about what books we would recommend to young people, = delinquent=20 >or not, I often see a huge gender divide. Does anyone else see a = difference=20 >in what boys like compared to what girls like? I started this discussion on another list I'm on, which is devoted to science fiction and fantasy (for all ages). The reason is that I've now = had three young men in my ward approach Jacob and me because they've started reading fantasy (usually _Lord of the Rings_ or the Harry Potter books) = and they don't know where to go next. (And their parents have no idea.) Despite years of reading the stuff, this question makes my mind go blank. So I took it to my friends on that list, hoping to generate some kind of permanent recommendation sheet. But I also wanted to know if they recommended different books for girls than for boys, or if there were any books they would *only* recommend for girls or boys. The membership of = this list includes a number of academics and several librarians, of ages = ranging from mid-teens to late-fifties. What I learned was surprising to me, since I had always heard that boys = will only read "boy" books and that girls will read either "boy" or "girl" = books. =46irst, there was no consensus on what a "boy" or a "girl" book was; = even the idea that boys wouldn't read a book with a strong romance element was = shot down by the men on the list, and a few of them admitted to having read a romance novel or two. Second, the men (whom I queried directly on this point) all said they'd never (as teens) felt put off by a book just = because it seemed girly. They didn't prefer action-adventure, thrillers, spy novels, or books with steely-eyed male protagonists. They just liked reading, and they liked books that interested them, whatever that meant. = I don't know how representative they are, as heavily self-selected as this list is, but their answers were not really what I expected even from = fanatic readers. The final thing all of them (male and female) insisted on was that the = best way to figure out what a teen will read is to know that teen well. This doesn't help me, and probably won't help Cathy, because it implies that there is no master list to consult when you're trying to get delinquents/cheerleaders/science wonks/insert category here to read something. Even kids who are "troubled teens" are troubled for so many different reasons that there's no one perfect book for all of them. But because there's no certainty, I think it's important not to rule out any book, even if we think boys (or girls) in general wouldn't like it, = because it's impossible to know that for sure. Melissa Proffitt =20 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:15:27 -0600 From: margaret young Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Plays (Andrew's Poll) Okay, I'll add a voice here. Though I would love to see _Dear Stone_ performed again (with Scott Bronson as Ben), I already warned Thom that I don't think it would be an audience attractor. Sadly, neither would _Accommodations_--Eric's wonderful play. Both of these plays are hard ones, and the truth is, audience goers tend to want something like _My Turn on Earth_ for a date night. So I think Thom is right on in selecting that as the debut play. I think in time, when the theater is successful, he can do a more "risky" play--including his own excellent _Survival of the Fittest_. But to initiate a theater, I'd recommend light pieces + a little Shakespeare (which has no royalty and consistently attracts good audiences--including some high school kids who might get extra credit for seeing it.) Of course, the resident expert is my twin, Marilyn Brown, who can tell exactly what shows are successful. She and Bill have also done original scripts--which always bring in large contingents of the author's family and classmates! Anyway, you have to take into account not only audience sizes but costs of production. I have vivid memories of doing wonderful plays with Scott Card's troupe--which went bankrupt. By the way, _Dear Stone_ was written after _Heresies of Nature_ (Signature changed the title). I always enjoy Jeff's reviews, but I'm curious about one thing: Why is it so strange that I could write _Heresies of Nature_ and also _Standing on the Promises_? Don't most of us have a large spectrum of writing in which we work--at least potentially? Do we simply EXPECT a certain style or topic from some authors? Would people call for Gerald Lund's excommunication if he were to depict something really hard and bad in one of his books? Would people be terribly disappointed if Levi Peterson were to write something light? Or would they think he had run out of steam? The truth is, some of my best work is on my computer and I won't submit it anywhere--not under my real name, anyway. But to me, there is no conflict in the spectrum of what I write. It's all me. Maybe it's just that I'm a redhead and a gemini. [Margaret Young] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:20:32 -0600 From: margaret young Subject: Re: [AML] Church History Recommendations? Interestingly, I don't think I'd recommend my own books for someone investigating the Church (though _House Without Walls_ would probably be really good for this Jewish man). If the investigator had specific questions about the Church and race issues, then Darius's and my trilogy would be appropriate. To be truthful, I don't think there's a piece of FICTION I'd recommend to introduce this particular man to Church history. I'd recommend the _FARMS_ book on Judaism and Mormonism. I'd recommend Nibley's _Lehi in the Desert_. I'd recommend Talmage's _Jesus the Christ_. Then I'd just recommennd the scriptures. That's the fundamental literature of our faith. [Margaret Young] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:33:35 -0700 From: Jeff Needle Subject: Re: [AML] YOUNG, _Heresies of Nature_ (Review) What a wonderful experience this must have been! This fact is mentioned in the book. I can imagine how moving the play must have been. At 01:17 PM 8/20/2002 -0600, you wrote: >Thanks to Jeff for, of course, another superb review. I have nothing to >add to his insightful comments about Margaret's book, except this: she's >also written a wonderful play, Dear Stone, using these same characters and >situation. One of the most joyous experiences of my professional career >came when I had the blessing of being able to direct the premiere >production of this wonderful piece of theatre. > >Eric Samuelsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 10:37:32 -0600 From: "Scott Parkin" Subject: Re: [AML] Programs for Poverty (This post isn't really a reply to Jacob so much as a digression on one idea his post made me think of. Sort of a riff on an only semi-related issue that I've been chewing over in my own mind as I've been trying to figure out how to plot my Mormon utopic novel project. FWIW.) Jacob Proffitt wrote: > One of the greatest innovations of the 20th century is > non-humbling poverty. It used to be that the poor would become humble > in their affliction and experience a form of spiritual rebirth as a > result. That happens still, but I think a part of our current hardening > of hearts includes a certain pride and greed in poverty. To accompany > our pride and greed in wealth, of course. Each of us can only speak from our own experience, but I have never met someone who was proud in their poverty--which is not to say that they don't exist, but the fact remains that I can't find someone to point at and say "that one's proud of being poor." I do know a number of people who have become resigned to their poverty, and even a few who have found contentment despite their poverty. I know several who have lost hope because of their poverty, essentially losing the perspective to even see solutions to their problems despite their very real skills and potential. I know some people who are poor but too proud to ask for assistance. But I don't know anyone who takes pride in the fact of their poverty. For me greed is a different issue, especially when combined with fundamental laziness (my own greatest struggle). On a general basis, though, I can't help but wonder if we sometimes spend inordinate effort fighting the spectre of unrealized possibility more than the real problems that lie at our feet. If we spent less time worrying about fraud and devoted that time and effort to offering service, it seems like we could accomplish even more good than we already do--even if some undeserving benefit as a result. I wonder if we shouldn't just "serve 'em all and let God sort 'em out," as it were. I wonder if our fear of the elusive (illusive?) "welfare queen" has caused us to become so demanding, harsh, and critical of those who seek help that we all but criminalize them, and look for excuses to withdraw our assistance in the name of moral right. Are we letting the criminals dictate how we treat the honestly needy? Is that the best mindset to use when attempting to offer real charity? I know I've been very leery in my own giving over the years, and I'm not sure that my own fundamental mistrust is to my individual benefit. Especially as I've found myself on the receiving end a number of times recently. It's an emotional argument, but it's the one I keep coming back to. Isn't it to our good to help those in need of help--even if they have the tools to escape their poverty, and even if they're defrauding us by accepting our assistance? If we should labor all our days and save only one soul from poverty and the spiritual abyss it can represent, won't our joy be great in the kingdom of heaven? Of course we need to target our assistance to those who have real need so that needed resources are not wasted on those without need. But in attempting to make sure we only serve the truly needy I wonder if we don't do ourselves spiritual violence by looking at people as statistics, commodities, or subhuman, putting the mask of our own fear on them and turning them into targets or even enemies instead of fellow children of God. An emotional response rather than a rational one, but it's the hill I still struggle to climb despite recent experiences that should have taught me otherwise. Scott Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 09:44:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Dallas Robbins Subject: RE: [AML] Church History Recommendations? > ___ Kathy ___ > | Yesterday a friend at work asked me to recommend > to her > | some books (fiction or nonfiction) on the > restoration > | and growth of the early LDS church. To put my two cents in, I would recomment "Joseph Smith and the Beginnings of Mormonism" by Richard Bushman. It focuses on the Smith family, first vision, coming forth of the BoM, and the founding of the church. Those interested in the early growth of the church, this book is a must. Dallas Robbins cloudhill@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 11:03:36 -0600 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Revelation and Style > I don't think I'm "special" beyond how everyone is special as a son or > daughter of God. I'm certainly not better than anyone, and I frequently feel > worse! Like Linda, I was watching this thread, but afraid to reply, for fear > of appearing puffed up or holier-than-thou. The only way you would appear holier-than-thou would be if you were to imply that the only way to receive revelation from god was through words to the mind. You didn't do that. Instead, you delivered what I consider to be a marvelously simple testimony of how God speaks to you personally without suggesting that other ways are inferior. As one who has never heard a voice from Heaven (but who has had many impressions of the spirit) I appreciate that. Do you think that the way we each experience God colors our ways of writing about him? I submitted a manuscript to Granite Publihsers years ago which was rejected. The principle complaint was that the seventeen year-old main character seemed way too advanced in his thinking and knowledge about the Last Days to be believable. What concerned me was the youth in my novel was me. I had written about what I knew but it wasn't believed by the editor. I realize I wasn't typical of youth, but that was, after all, the point of the novel. (I've had others reading the ms. express concern because I have the Prophet as one one the three main characters and put thoughts in his mind and words in his mouth). As readers, and editors, perhaps we should not be so quick to condemn others' creative endeavors because they don't correspond to our experience. Kathy and Linda receive inspiration through words. Scott Bronson receives his most inspired thoughts in the shower. Mine come when I am usually thinking about something else altogether. Each of us would probably have different ways of describing an incidence of personal revelation. Each would be valid and could only be judged on how well it was portrayed literarily and not on how much it differed from our own experience. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 13:14:20 -0400 From: "robert lauer" Subject: Re: [AML] Postmodernism THOM DUNCAN wrote: > > I don't > > and won't buy the idea that the Holy Ghost's point of view is relative >and > > can be deconstructed. > >Given that position, how do you explain the very real situation where two >people can differ as to what the Holy Ghost tells them? If the Holy Ghost >isn't relative, we are forced to believe that the "other guy" is wrong, >while we are right. In some things, such as morality, say, we can of course >believe that the guy who says that the Holy Ghost told him that promiscuity >is okay is up in the night, but can we take the same position if Brother A >feels he should vote Democratic while Brother A feels inspired to vote the The difference between these two situations is that adultery is a moral issue while the party for which one votes MAY not be. ROB. LAUER _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 12:47:53 -0600 From: "Eric R. Samuelsen" Subject: Re: [AML] _The Other Side of Heaven_ (Review) I do have to respond briefly to this: >Mitch Davis consolidated a few things and a few characters to streamline = >the script, but the basic incidents of the movie are true. =20 Not so. Groberg did not sit on a spit of land by the ocean, reading the Bible in = Tongan and English in order to learn the language. He learned it the way = most people learn it, by listening carefully to native speakers, and = asking lots and lots of questions. Groberg also did not stand idly aside, = looking bummed, while a gang of pimps punched out the branch president. = He and the branch president visited all the families in the ward warning = them not to let their daughters go out to the yacht. Groberg did also get = discouraged and homesick and he did become quite depressed, and he did = recover. That story arc never made it onto the screen either. Mitch did = make some stuff up, very much to the detriment of the movie, which is a = real shame, because better writing would have resulted in a far better = movie. The book is excellent, in my opinion. The movie, not so much. Eric Samuelsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #809 ******************************