From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #927 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, December 18 2002 Volume 01 : Number 927 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 13:10:56 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: [AML] _God's Army_ Video Deal You can get _God's Army_ in VHS or DVD for $10.00 now at (gag! choke!) Deseret Book. They're having a clearance sale on it. At least the one in Valley Fair Mall in West Valley. Can't vouch for any of the other stores. I went in looking for the DVD of _Out of Step_, and ended up getting both DVDs. As she was ringing them up, I told her to throw in that new Richard Paul Evans book. Ain't I a devil? - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 15:10:44 -0800 From: "Michael Bencik" Subject: [AML] AML Fiction Contest (FW DN) Deseret News, Saturday, December 14, 2002 Mormon Letters group holding fiction contest The Association for Mormon Letters is sponsoring the third annual = Irreantum=20 fiction contest. Irreantum is a quarterly literary magazine dedicated to exploring Mormon = culture, and all contest entries must relate to the Mormon experience in = some=20 way, either explicitly or implicitly. Stories must be 8,500 words or less, and any fictional form will be = considered.=20 Any fiction genre is welcome. There is no entry fee. The first-place author will receive $250, second place $175 and third = place $100=20 (unless the judge determines entries are not of sufficient quality to = merit=20 awards). Submit manuscripts by May 1, 2003, directly to Irreantum's fiction = editor: Tory=20 Anderson, P.O. Box 445, Levan, UT 84639. The British Tourist Authority has launched a special campaign extending = an=20 invitation to American travelers to celebrate the 300th anniversary in = Britain=20 next year of the birth of John Wesley, founder of the Methodist Church. There will be special tours showcasing areas of particular significance = to the=20 Methodist movement. For more information, go online to www.travelbritain.org/wesley2003, or=20 www.GoTrinityTours.com. =A9 2002 Deseret News Publishing Company - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 21:36:02 -0600 From: "kumiko" Subject: [AML] re: Film-Adapted Mormon Authors Preston wrote: LDS/Mormon authors I am aware of whose works have already been > >adapted to film. Is anybody missing? wwbrown@burgoyne.com wrote: >I'm back on briefly! Have you included Doug Stewart with WHERE THE RED FERN GROWS or does that qualify? Thank you for taking the time to write. Certainly Stewart's influence, as the writer of "Saturday's Warrior", is immeasurable. And there IS a direct-to-video adaptation of that musical, as well as a video tape available of his sequel to it, "StarChild." But if we are listing ONLY authors of books or stories which have been adapted to film, Stewart would not be on the list. He is indeed the screenwriter of the 1974 film adaptation of the novel _Where the Red Fern Grows_. But the author of that book is Wilson Rawls. Stewart was also a screenwriter of the Church video "The Lost Manuscript." I would classify as a screenwriter, playwright and lyricist whose works have been filmed, but NOT as a film-adapted author. Interestingly enough, there are novelizations of both "Saturday's Warrior" and "StarChild," both written by Linda Higham Thomson. Well... Stewart's name appear as co-author on the novelization of "Saturday's Warrior," although I'm not sure how much of the novelization itself he actually wrote. Preston - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 19:30:56 -0800 From: Jeffrey Needle Subject: [AML] Richard SNOWCROFT, _Ordeal of Dudley Dean_ (Review) Review ====== Title: The Ordeal of Dudley Dean Author: Richard Scowcroft Publisher: Lippincott Year Published: 1969 Number of Pages: 272 Binding: Hardback ISBN: n/a Price: n/a Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle It is with some sadness that I came to the end of this book, discovered among the mounds of hardbacks to arrive at Deseret Industries the other day. Seeing the author's name, I wondered, could this be THE Richard Scowcroft? Indeed it was. Dudley Dean is a divorced father of a son, Tad, 17 years young, and just arrived for a brief visit with his dad. Tad has been living with his mother (Hannah) and step- father (Ashton), and has arrived in Salt Lake City for a visit with his natural father, an attempt to rediscover each other, to try to recover the lost years. Oh, don't call Dudley a Mormon. He'll shout and complain, he is NOT a Mormon. Although from a vaguely Mormon family, the descendant of polygamists, Dudley has come to despise everything Mormonism stands for. He drinks, he sleeps around...well, you get the picture. Dudley is also a professor, working on a book on the novelist George Meredith, whose book "The Ordeal of Richard Feveral," seems to act as a model for this work. I've never read Meredith's book, so I'm at a disadvantage. Those who have read Meredith will likely appreciate the parallels more than I did. Tad's visit begins a series of events that will turn Dudley's world upside-down. Among the many characters that populate this wild ride of a book are Bessie (Hannah's sister), all-suffering, true-blue Mormon housewife; the Ladies Alcorn, two old biddies just this side of senility and their lovely Elinore, 40 years old and virginal, as far as Dudley can figure; April, the younger woman, slinger of hash at the local greasy spoon, and current bed partner for Tad. It goes on and on. Scowcroft is amazingly skilled in his descriptions of these odd characters. Here's a sample: Try as I always had, castigate myself as I always did, I never succeeded in being happy to see Bessie. Why? I asked myself. Why? I asked Hannah. One reason, I believe, was that when Bessie embraced all virtue as her own, she never bothered to consider why certain acts are virtuous, others not. She lived by precepts: Be kind, understanding, generous, forgiving. But what did these precepts mean to her? I don't think she knew. In her mindless benevolence, she could forgive anything, and in her soft gentle whine, she could tell of the many, many things she found to forgive. She was custard pudding without the vanilla bean -- good for one, possibly, but almost unpalatable. (p. 89) Bessie's family is filled with eccentric and unpredictable characters. Some of the best scenes in the book take place at Bessie's home. Mormon to the eyebrows, the family wants nothing more than for Dudley and Tad to repent and return to the One True Church. And they will stop at nothing to make it happen. The action in this book takes place over just a few days, those passing between Christmas and New Year. This is all the time father and son have to make that connection, to bridge the gap that distance, and alienated affections, has created. But given Dudley's dysfunctional psyche, and Tad's youth and inflated ego, how could this ever take place? Scowcroft dives head first into the issue of sexuality and what he suggests is Mormonism's repressive attitude toward the natural use of the body. This is not to say that the Saints in this book are asexual. To the contrary, Bessie's son Fillmore -- erstwhile missionary, man of great prayer, debater of morals and decider of fates -- is also an earthy, sexually charged young man, whose sister must constantly warn him, "Get your mind out of the gutter!" So what is the father's mission in all this mess? Dudley is convinced that, without his help, his son Tad will never find the right girl, never feel comfortable with the use of his body, never find his place in life. All of which, we should say, are extensions of Dudley's own failings. And in projecting these failings on his son, he only manages to drive Tad farther away. In the process of leading his son through the twisted path we call life, Dudley succeeds only in hopelessly confounding his own life, as Tad peels away one layer after another of the facade that Dudley has come to call his existence. Scowcroft is a gifted narrator, a wonderful story-teller. While this book won't be for everyone (his depiction of Mormon life will likely not sit well with some, and the frank sexuality, and often-blue language), many who appreciate good writing, a keen sense for character, an ability to keep the story moving, will enjoy the book. "The Ordeal of Dudley Dean" is a marvelous tour-de-force, a comic opera told with grace and without subtlety. Yes, I'm sad that I'm at the end of the book. I'd like to know what happened to Tad. I'd like to discover if Dudley ever found himself. But maybe it doesn't matter. After all, how do Dudley's failings reflect my own? Perhaps I have nothing to offer any of them. This is a wonderful book. If you can find a copy, get it, read it, love it. - ------------------ Jeffrey Needle jeff.needle@general.com or jeffneedle@tns.net - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:45:04 -0500 From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Film-Adapted Mormon Authors Again, I don't know if what happened to me can be classified as an adaptation, a homage, a rip-off, a coincidence, or a joke--but if you want a comprehensive and definitive list of film adapted Mormon authors, you may as well include Dinosaur Valley Girls as an adaptation of Jaxon Files. This film is a soft-core porn spoof that features a plot somewhat parallel to my novel, and the starring character is martial artist goofball named Tony Markham. Tony Markham (who teaches martial arts and doesn't believe in coincidences) - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:39:40 -0700 From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] LaBute, _The Mercy Seat_ Here's an item in the forthcoming Irreantum, summarized from the New York Times: * Neil LaBute's new play The Mercy Seat, which he directed in its recent New York City debut, is "a tough-minded play whose ideas are highly provocative, even by its author's own prickly standards," wrote the New York Times. Starring Sigourney Weaver and Liev Schreiber, the play takes place on September 12, 2001, "as a married man named Ben (also a father) and his mistress, Abby (also his boss), debate their future. The day before, on his way to an early meeting at the World Trade Center, Ben had been diverted to Abby's nearby apartment. When the planes crashed into the towers, the lovers were engaged in oral sex. Now, presuming his wife and children think he's dead, Ben sees an opportunity to start a new life. Abby's revulsion leads to a bitter dissection of their relationship." The Times continues: "The cynicism can seem breathtaking but weirdly heartening, a sign that we haven't been pummeled, politically and emotionally, into taking a uniform view of that terrible moment and its meaning. The play requires almost a nonstop output of high-octane emotion, whose venom level was startling to these gifted and experienced actors. (Even the humor, and there is more than you would think, springs from bitter truths and suppositions.)" Weaver said: "That people in the daze of Sept. 12 could make remarks like that was so unthinkable to me. They were so clearly in their own selfish world. But I must say, as well as shocking, it was funny. And necessary. As if the pendulum had to swing back to the other direction. My character is an adulteress, a ruthless businesswoman, but she does the right thing in the end. We've been couching all this in good and evil, black and white, but people come in shades of gray." Schreiber said: "I'm scared. I don't think I've been in a place in my life or my career where things are as sensitive as they are in this play. It makes me question all the foundations of my training and belief and faith. I completely respect people's decision to stay away from things that will be painful to them. This is a play for people who are hearty of spirit." Chris Bigelow - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:50:23 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Debra L Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] Titanic =0D I personally hope I get to steam up a few celestial windows with my husb= and after. But everyone kind of shies away from that topic Interesting idea for a futuristic mormon novel? Someone can fly with that if they wan= t. I did my bit with _Beer Drinki' Mormons_=0D Debbie Brown=0D - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 02:22:31 +0000 From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] Dutcher Movies News Hey, big news. Richard Dutcher has put up a web site (primarily to attract investors) for a proposed "God's Army II". http://www.godsarmy2.com/index.htm It includes a sample script of a couple of scenes and a financial plan. It also provides this tantalizing tidbit about "The Prophet". "In the spring of 2003, Dutcher will begin the principal photography of The Prophet, the biographical epic film about Joseph Smith. The film will star Val Kilmer and F. Murray Abraham, and will receive broad, worldwide distribution." I had heard a rummor that Val Kilmer was cast, but this is the first comfirmation I had seen. And Abraham is even more impressive, I wonder if he would play one of the prophet's enemies. Listing the spring of 2003 as the start of principal photography obviously puts it behind the earlier announced schedule, presumably becuase of the financial trouble Dutcher has mentioned after Brigham City did not do as well at the box office, and maybe in order to fit into the schedules of the big stars. Here is a web site about Val Kilmer and Christian Science: http://www.vkn.com/articles/albuquerquejournal.html I think the only movie I have seen Kilmer in was "At First Sight", where he plays a blind man having a hard time after an operation restores his sight. The movie was fair to okay, but I thought he did a good job. Anyway, here is some more info on God's Army II. "God's Army marked the beginning of successful cinema within the LDS community. It was a highly profitable venture for investors, and has since become a name brand, with a top-selling video/dvd, soundtrack, and novelization (with several sequel novels in the works). God's Army is now beginning its theatrical and video distribution throughout Latin America. God's Army 2: States of Grace follows the character of Elder Sandoval, the Latino missionary from the first film, during the final weeks of his mission. Also appearing in God's Army 2: States of Grace are Elder Banks (the African-American missionary), Elder Mangum (the car-loving Idaho kid), and Elder Downey (the missionary who replaced Elder Dalton at the end of the first film). Sandoval and his companion accidentally walk into a gang war between blacks and hispanics in Santa Monica, California. It is there that they find Carl, a young man ready to escape a life of violence. What happens next takes us straight to the heart of the gospel: repentance, forgiveness and atonement. God's Army 2: States of Grace will be packed with powerful music from LDS, Christian and mainstream artists. A soundtrack featuring the songs from the film will be released one month before the film premieres." Principles involved: Richard Dutcher - Writer/Producer/Director Stin Hansen - Producer Evan Hill - Financial Advisor Gladys Knight - Actress/Musician/Soundtrack Actors: Luis Robledo (Sandoval), DeSean Terry, John Petecost, Jeff Kelly, and Gladys Knight. Music by Gladys Knight, Lyle Lovett (!!), Kirk Franklin, and Greg Simpson. The sample script looks very interesting. Sandoval is trunky to go home, but ends up in the middle of a gang shooting, and we find out that he was once a gang member. He has an influence on a Latino gang member. It reminds me of Gordon Laws' 2001 short novel My People, published by the BYU Family Studies Center and distributed by Excel, Zion Film's distributor. It was about a Mexican-American gang leader who joins the Church, and was designed to act as the basis for a film. I thought it was a very good book, but the similarity and connection are probably just a coincidence. Richard, any comments? Andrew Hall Fukuoka, Japan _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:04:41 -0800 From: "jana" Subject: [AML] Review Selections and More Books "Up for Review" AML-Listers: Here are the reviewers selected from the November 14 "Up for Review" = list. If you've been selected, please email me your mailing address and = I will send the books out ASAP. Below the selected reviewers is a list = of books that are still available, with some new titles added. [MOD: *Please* send directly to Jana at jana@enivri.com, *not* as a reply to this email.] As always, thanks to everyone who participates in the Review Program!! = For those of you who are late in returning your reviews, please try to = complete them soon so we can maintain our good relationships with the = publishers who provide these books. Best wishes, Jana Remy AML-List Review Editor - ---------------------------- A Guiding Star by Anita Stansfield - -Delsa Anderson Power of Deliverance by David G. Woolley - -Russ Hansen The Return by Robert Marcum - -Jeff Needle Into the Fire by Jeffrey Savage - -D. Michael Martindale Deep Waters by Thomas Eno - -Andrew Hall The Path to Mountain Meadows by Beth Shumway Moore - -Morgan Adair 500 Little Known Facts in Mormon History by George W. Givens - -Travis Manning - ------------------ Available books: Covenant (www.convenat-lds.com): The Way, the Truth and the Life: Images of the New Testament by S. = Michael Wilcox Faith of our Fathers by N.C. Allen Abandoned by Jennie Hansen Lost and Found by Clair Poulsen Beyond Summer Dreams by Jennie Hansen=20 Jesus Said.. by Debbie G. Harman Heroes of the Bible by Toni Sorenson Brown Christmas Oranges, re-told by Linda Bethers=20 Until Proven Guilty by Betsy Brannon Green The Plan of Salvation by Matthew B. Brown Deseret Book: (www.deseretbook.com) Troubled Waters by Dean Hughes The World Turned Upside Down by Ron Carter Because He First Loved Us, a collection of discourses by Henry B. Eyring Cedar Fort: (www.cedarfort.com) Principles of Progression by Kevin Stott A Trusting Heart by Shannon Guymon=20 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 13:09:28 -0500 From: "robert lauer" Subject: Re: [AML] Titanic Elizabeth Walters wrote: > > > > While it wasn't the best movie > > (what James Cameron movie is?) D. Michael Martindale wrote: >The Abyss. Here's some trivia. Our own Orson Scott Card wrote the novelization of "The Abyss." ROB. LAUER _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:07:24 -0700 From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] Deseret Book Ad Campaign DB's has obviously designed their new ad campaign in response to the Richard Paul Evans kerfluffle. The slogan is "What matters to you matters to us." I've seen one billboard with just that slogan in large letters, and they say it on their TV ad. Also, yesterday we got a letter from Sheri Dew doing spin on the whole thing without mentioning the specific situation. A quote: "Many customers have asked if we will continue to carry books and other products that explore the classic conflict between good and evil (and thus deal with everything from adultery to abuse). Of course we will. But we will stock only those that clearly distinguish between right and wrong and that show the honest consequences of individual choices. Most of the significant literature of the world does this. We are not inclined, though, to include in our inventory products that reward, glamorize, or take a sympathetic view of immorality or other evils." Did customers outside of Utah get Dew's letter, I wonder? Did this whole thing completely blindside DB, or did they anticipate the media coverage and backlash? My guess is they were taken unawares; after all, it was RPE who first broke the story. Chris Bigelow - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:17:27 -0800 From: John Dewey Remy Subject: RE: [AML] _Jesus Christ Superstar_ D. Michael Martindale wrote: "I feel dirty because I enjoy the music, but cringe at the message. The message is blatantly antichrist, belittling what Jesus did and stood for, even if one does not accept him as the Son of God." to which Eric Samuelsen responded: "I will go to my grave insisting that this is a grotesque misreading of one of the great works of Christian art in this century. Jesus Christ Superstar shows some of his disciples doubting His divine calling, and being confounded for their short sighted ignorance. The protagonist is, after all, Judas, and the work directly and explicitly shows how wrong he was. Personally, I love Superstar, and when I want a direct infusion of the Spirit in my life, I give it a listen." I think that many conservative Christians (I include Mormons in this group) find the portrayals of Christ in productions like Jesus Christ Superstar and in the Last Temptation of Christ problematic because they reveal the humanity of Jesus. Perhaps many Christians/Mormons feel that portraying any sort of perceived human weakness in Jesus belittles or denies the divinity of Christ. (For those of you who haven't seen Scorcese's Last Temptation of Chris--the most controversial scene is essentially a lengthy temptation--Jesus does not actually sin by giving in to temptation. The christology of the movie was actually fairly conservative.) Mormons and Protestant/Catholic Christians often forget that the mortal Christ was a historically unique combination of human and the divine--the son in flesh of the Almighty God and the mortal Mary. Trying to resolve the issue of competing ways of conceiving Christ's humanity and divinity (some claimed he was wholly human, others that he was wholly divine, and many more asserted variations in between the two extremes), the council of Chalcedon in the year 451 produced a creed which proclaimed that Christ was "truly God and truly man." (Though Joseph Smith complicates the situation by teaching that humans and God are of the same species.) I agree with Eric that Jesus Christ Superstar does not deny the divinity of Jesus. (The same could be said for the Jesus in the Last Temptation of Christ.) I can relate to the Jesus in these productions--this is the Jesus who struggled with the bitter cup in Gethsemane and who cried out in anguish of heart and body, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" I can relate to these portrayals of Jesus. I struggle with bitter choices. I cry out similarly while nailed to my own private crosses. Unfortunately, we gloss over the more human protrayals of Jesus and of the prophets. We prefer the bland, one-sided images of Jesus in many Church productions (the blond-haired, blue-eyed, football-player build, very middle-class American--rather than the features of a lower-class, travel-worn, Mediterranean Semitic peasant suffering from Roman economic and political oppression). The Joseph Smith presented in Church productions displays his meekness and compassion but shows little of his dynamism, his confrontational style of teaching, his bold confidence, his mischeivous humor or his love for getting rough and tumble (not to mention enjoying a beer or spitting tobacco on Emma's floor). The interpretation of Moses by Charlton Heston and the creators of The Ten Commandments leaves out many crucial human elements of the Biblical Moses. In many modern portrayals of God's servants we are left with castrated images that have little in common with the human condition. One of the joys of reading the Old Testament is that much of the humanity of the prophets is left in there--Rebekah/Jacob's cunning, David's lust, Jonah's rebellion and pride, Joseph's toying with his long-lost brothers, Elisha's sensitivity to his baldness (2 Kings 2:24). We forget that the Apostles James and John jostled for position in the afterlife. For the most part, our perceptions of the General Authorities are based on Conference talks and Church publications. In our religious practice, even Christ's humanity is divinized. Religion is not merely about heavenly things--it is about the meeting of heaven and earth. Perhaps true art is one of the last refuges of true religion. John Remy UC Irvine - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 14:56:31 -0700 From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] Onion Skewers Orson Scott Card Here's a news brief from the new Onion: Barnes & Noble Staffers Mock Orson Scott Card Crowd From Back Of Room RALEIGH, NC-Employees of the Crabtree Mall Barnes & Noble used a Tuesday book-signing by science-fiction author Orson Scott Card as an opportunity to mock those in attendance. "'Excuse me, Mr. Card,'" cashier Randy Feig said to coworker Ian Rose in a derisive, pinched "nerd" voice. "'In Shadow Of The Hegemon, why was Ender Wiggin so reluctant to return to Earth after the Formic War?'" Feig then urged Rose to "check out the huge dude in the cloak" in the second row. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:25:41 -0500 From: "Hugh Stocks" Subject: Re: [AML] R-Rated Movies I'm with you and Thom. I fail to see any evidence (or any statement by duly constituted PH authority) that the Holy Ghost consistently inspires the MPAA ratings group to rate all (and only those) movies that are damaging to Mormon testimonies as R or (what is the replacement for X? N-17?). If the MPAA does operate under consistent guidance from the Holy Ghost, we should certainly sustain them in General Conference, seems to me. On 13 Dec 2002 at 18:00, Eric Russell stepped forward and proclaimed: > I certainly don't disagree that viewing certain things can cause=20 > spiritual/psychological damage. However, before anything else, my > question= =20 is, is it really the "Prophet's council"? [snip] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 19:36:26 -0700 From: Knudsen family Subject: [AML] Re: R-Rated Movies I have always thought it was interesting that we (Mormons) would turn our free agency over to a rating system which would then determine what I could or couldn't watch. I'll determine that, along with the promptings of the spirit, not a rating system where an "R" rated show provides profound insight into a life-altering concept or a "PG-13" rated show where crotch shots and potty humor are the main elements. Give me the "Royal Tennebaums" any day over "Happy Gilmore." But - supposedly, I can watch "Happy Gilmore" because it isn't rated "R"? Ha! Speaking of "R" rated books, how about "R" rated music? Ronda W. Knudsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 19:32:28 -0800 From: "Shelley Christensen" Subject: [AML] Re: R-Rated Movies I'm going to have to disagree with a few things here.  The first argument seems to be that because a "living prophet" did not say to not watch R-rated movies then we are ok.  This implies that we only need to follow the current prophet, and last time I checked there are still a lot of old prophets with good counsel that is still legitimate today and should be followed. I have two problems with the second argument.  First, when counsel is given to the youth of the church from the prophet, we adults expect them to follow it.  But it is highly unlikely for children to follow a commandment if their parents do not.  In this way, President Benson was talking to the adults as well, though indirectly.  The second part I have a problem with is "One is not obligated to follow counsel, only commandments."  We are obligated to follow counsel.  I am reminded of that good old Primary song... "follow the prophet..."  Maybe what you are trying to say is that if we are not breaking a commandment, we are not sinning.  Maybe you won't get that slap on the wrist, but you also won't get the blessing of following the prophet. The third argument I totally agree with.  Every human being has the right to make their own choices.  And every member of this church should inquire through the Holy Ghost to know what it is they should do.  And if they follow the promptings they will never go wrong. Lastly, I think it is very difficult to judge both the ratings of movies and books.  The ratings for movies are not concrete.  What would have been rated R twenty years ago is now PG-13.  How can we continue to rate anything with a constantly changing scale?  Books are harder to judge.  We do not have a set scale to judge with.  Plus we do not have the visual affect to judge off of.  But I think we each know what is inappropriate for certain ages, and what will make us personally uncomfortable.  I can't say what will take the spirit away from you personally, but I can judge for myself.  That is the best I can do. Shelley Christensen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 19:43:57 -0800 (PST) From: Colin Douglas Subject: RE: [AML] R-Rated Movies Surely no General Authority who has ever spoken on this topic could possibly have intended that we turn our judgment over to a committee of Hollywood Gentiles. Movies have been rated R in error; they have also been rated PG-13 and PG in error. I have seen PG movies I found sleezy, and R movies I would want to watch and discuss with my teenage children. An example of the latter was "Braveheart" (I believe that was an R). We take our Scottish ancestry seriously in my family, and my children know that Douglases fought beside Robert Bruce. My 18-year-old son left that movie moved to tears, saying, "I've never been so proud in my life." He was a better man for having seen it. Suffient information is available about movies for adults guided by the Spirit to make informed and responsible judgments about them if they want to make the effort. Colin Douglas; cbdouglas@yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 13:06:21 +0900 From: "Kari Heber" Subject: [AML] Books v. Film (was: Titanic) I think that this paragraph raises an interesting point about the difference about film and books (and one which has probably been discussed long before I started lurking here). However, I often find just the opposite to be true, that a book gives me a much better experience than the movies. Having seen _Saving Private Ryan_ I can say that the opening scenes of battle were certainly intense, but fell far short of conveying a complete sense of battle; either from an individual or group perspective. The opening scene lasted ~20 minutes. Utah beach was not secured and safe for landing for >24 hours. The movie just can't convey the sensation of utter and prolonged fear, dread, exhaustion, elation of survival, and other sensations that were experienced by the participants of this battle. And at its heart, this wasn't a movie about war or warfare. Compare this to _Flags of Our Fathers_ by James Bradley, or _The Face of Battle_ by John Keegan (or some of his other military histories), or any other well written book about battle. The writer's ability to transport the reader, for mutliple chapters, for longer than 20 minutes, into lush and vivid details, will always be preferrable to me than film. Now, having said all that, I will say that the opposite is true with regards to Tom Clancy. I have never thought much of his writing, and have found the films, particularly _Hunt for Red October_, to be much better than any of his books. - ------------------------------ D. Michael Martindale wrote: {snip] Frankly, my imagination is orders of magnitude inferior to the experience film gives me. I couldn't possibly feel the sinking of a ship or twenty minutes of a deadly battle in my imagination with quite the same power as films like _Titanic_ or _Saving Private Ryan_ can give me. Life is not an imaginary dream--life is real with real sensations of sight and sound. Film is as close as we can get to life (so far) on a sensory level, without actually having to live it. The ghosts of my imagination cannot compare to the reality of film. If I want to experience something on a deep, powerful level like reality, film is my best choice. [snip] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 00:34:52 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time) From: "Debra L Brown" Subject: Re: [AML] R-Rated Movies < ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 01:47:07 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] R-Rated Movies "R.W. Rasband" wrote: > capriciocommercialary I've heard of supercalifragilisticexpialidocious, but what on earth is this? > I will continue to see whatever movies I think fit > to see, using my agency and discernment, until the day (if it ever comes, > which I doubt) when my bishop and stake president ask me point blank if I > watch "R-rated movies" during my temple recommend interview. If that day comes, I will reply, "Absolutely!" - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:25:31 -0800 From: "Susan Malmrose" Subject: Re: [AML] R-Rated Movies I stopped watching rated R movies when I saw a movie my husband and his friend had rented, it was one of the Highlander movies. There was a sex scene in it and I could literally feel the spirit leave when that came on. It felt like a vacuum just sucked it out of the room. And once I stopped watching them, I lost my tolerance for a lot of what they contain--graphic violence, swearing, sex scenes. Every once in awhile someone would praise a rated R movie to me and convince me it was ok to see--"It just has some swearing in it"--but people who are used to seeing rated R movies have a tolerance built up that I now lack. My s-i-l talked me into renting Good Will Hunting once--there's only swearing in it, right? So much swearing that it ruined the entire movie for me. And there is also a graphically violent scene where someone gets beat up. That alone was enough to ruin it for me. I don't even remember too much of what happened in the movie--but I still remember the image of a bloodied face. So I've stopped taking the word of people who are used to seeing rated R movies, and just don't watch them at all. And honestly, I don't feel like I'm missing much. I get kinda irritated with the attitude a lot of people I know get about movies--"You HAVE to see this!" No, I don't. It's kinda funny I feel this way about movies, cuz I don't have a problem listening to music that glorifies drug use and who knows what else. (I do skip the song "Feel Good Hit of the Summer," when I listen to the album _Rated R_ by Queens of the Stone Age, though. :) I really wish the new Missy Eliot album wasn't so sexually graphic, cuz the music is so interesting. It's one of the few albums I refuse to listen to. Susan M - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #927 ******************************