From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #943 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Wednesday, January 15 2003 Volume 01 : Number 943 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 16:58:12 -0700 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: [AML] What I Did At Deseret Book Okay, I know I vowed on this list never to darken the hallowed walls of Deseret Book since the Great Book Banning of 2002, but...well, my daughter gave me a gift certificate. And not being one to look a gift horse in the mouth (or to ignore a gift certificate, for that matter), I popped in this afternoon to see what I might be persuaded to exchange my certificate for. I checked out the fiction section and almost immediately laid eyes upon a paperback I remember reading twenty years ago in hard back -- a book which, as I seem to recall, had a very explicit and graphic lesbian sex scene in it. What to do, I asked myself? Should I approach the store manager and tell them that there was a book on their shelf that would make Richard Paul Evan's adultery scene seem tame in comparison? Should I write a letter to Sherry Dew, asking her when, o when, will come to the day that I can enter the Lord's bookstore and not have my sensitivies damaged? When will I ever be totally safe? I ultimately decided to do the only decent thing. In the spirit of those self-sactificing soldiers who cast themselves upon a hand grenade to protect their fellow soldiers, and because there was only one copy on the self, I decided to buy the book. Don't thank me. I have not done this for the accolades of men. I have done it to protect my fellow Saints. Knowing what was in the book, on page 346, I couldn't live with myself if some unsuspecting brother or sister should happen upon this scene of soft porn within the pages of an otherwise excellent historical novel. - ---- Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 18:49:30 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: Re: [AML] More Sugar Beet Fun - --- Christopher Bigelow wrote: > There are several AML-related stories in the new Sugar Beet: > > Mormon Novelist Refuses Deseret Book Distribution > Richard Paul Evans Embraced by Mormon Literati > New Mountain Meadows Massacre Book Fails to Shock Anyone I thought these stories were very clever and amusing. They turned the liberal knee-jerk reactions of some of us (including me) upside down in a refreshing, necessary way. This is a good sign that "The Sugar Beet" doesn't take itself too seriously; and it indulges in truly *radical* satire. It goes after *all* points of view, even those of us oh-so-enlightened "Sunstone" types. (And yes, I subscribe to that magazine.) I just finished reading a new short book by Christopher Hitchens titled "Why Orwell Matters." Hitchens argues that George Orwell continues to be the most important writer of our time even 50 years after his death and after the end of the "Cold War" (a phrase which he himself coined.) Orwell virtually invented "cultural studies." He was one of the first critics to consider popular culture in a rigorous way, like cartoon postcards and detective novels. And he was a brilliantly acute satirist *because* he was a divided man. He was intellectually a socialist and temperamentally a conservative. The contradictions in his soul insured that he saw all sides of every question. This saved him from the stridently single-mindedical opinions of so many of his contemporaries that led them to embrace fascism or communism. He saw right through tyrannies like that, as well as the other dangerous intellectual fashions of his time. His hard-earned intellectual "objectivity" (that noble dream for most of us) caused him no end of problems because of conflict with employers and editors who wanted to safely label and corral him into one camp or another. The apostle James wrote "a double-minded man is unstable in all his ways." That line of scripture has always bothered me because in many ways I am a double-minded man myself. I certainly wish for more certainty about some things. But it was the apostle Paul who noted that in this life we see through a glass, darkly. We can only catch glimpses of larger truths. And sometimes it seems the glimpses contradict each other. I am waiting for further light and knowledge, even as I laugh at the silly things we can fall into when we are sure that we are always, exclusively *right.* ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 21:31:02 -0700 From: "Nan McCulloch" Subject: [AML] Black Pioneers I read an interesting article in the Deseret News by Michael Alvear from = the Christian Science Monitor entitled --Lott is not alone in his = discomfort with race issues. Alvear writes that whenever he introduces = his friend Steve he always tries to impress people with his high-profile = job and the fact that he makes a lot of money. He says that he doesn't = do this with other friends. Just Steve. Because he is black. And the = people that he introduces him to are, like him, white. When he is alone = with Steve the issue of race goes away. They laugh, talk shop, trade = advice, make fun of each other. But as soon as they get in a public = setting, something happens. Instead of seeing him as Steve, he sees him = as *Black Steve* and he starts plotting ways to make him more acceptable = to white people. One day Steve asked Michael why he waved his resume = when he introduced him to his friends. After some soul searching, = Michael decided that one reason is that a common belief among whites is = that a black man with a good job is a contradiction in terms. Steve was = appreciative of his candor, but questioned what would happen if he lost = his job. Would that mean that he was no longer acceptable? This was = such a great article. My husband and I have worked with successful = black professionals since the 60's, so this example is not our paradigm. = But, what about blacks as pioneers in other arenas? A few months ago I = posted that when Pres. Hinckley mentioned at the Nauvoo Temple = Dedication that Jane Manning James walked 800 miles to meet the = Prophet, I admitted that I was thrilled to inform my friend that Jane = was one of the first black pioneers. =20 Growing up in Cache Valley where pioneer worship was common, this story = would not have been a story. I had heard them all. This was a story to = me, because I didn't know that there were any black pioneer Saints. Of = course, I was shamed by listers for feeling the need to mention that = Jane just happened to be black. To me Jane was a first. When one reads = about Vonetta Flowers, a former track and field coach at the University = of Alabama-Birmingham, who became the first black athlete from any = country to win a winter Olympics gold medal, doesn't the fact that she = is black make the story more interesting? During the Pasadena Rose = Parade Al Roker strongly stressed that the *Buffalo Soldiers* were a = brave black unit who fought in the Civil War. Most of us know this, but = Al made sure that everybody was clued in. Was anything wrong with that? = I think we can all learn a lesson from the *waving the resume* story, = but when I see a minority (black, Mormon, whatever) become a first at = something, I have a hard time not calling attention to the fact. Does = anyone else have this problem? I know it seems unenlightened and = politically incorrect to some. Since I didn't know that there were = black pioneers in the Mormon church, I thought that maybe our eight = children could have missed this important historical information as = well, and for Christmas I sent them all the first two volumes of = _Standing on the Promises_ by Young and Gray. =20 [Nan McCulloch] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 22:09:32 -0800 From: Harlow S Clark Subject: [AML] RedRock's Chaparral Poetry Forum Entries [Finally got my .com putter up and running egg-n. Thought I'd pass this along. The $2 entry fee is a lot better than a $5 fee. Now if I just hadn't published my "Baby Jesus" poem in the last Eery Aunt Hums.=20 Harlow (if anyone needs an attribution after that)] Chaparral Poetry Forum: Last Call for Entries Sponsored by RedRock Writers Guild Contest Chair: LaVerna B. Johnson: bwt@infowest.com =20 Cholla Division: First Prize $200, second Prize $100, third Prize $50 Any subject, any form, 40 lines or less. Chaqueta Division: First Prize $100, second Prize $50, third Prize $25 Southwest Theme: nature people, history--any form, 40 lines or less Chimera Division: First Prize $100, second prize $50, third Prize $25 Imaginative or absurd/humorous/impossible/foolish--40 lines or less Each Division will award three $5.00 Honorable Mentions. All winning poems will be published in the Chaparral Poetry Forum Chapbook, with selected readings at the 2003 RedRock Writer=B9s Seminar, St. George, UT. Guidelines: 1. Poems may be any form, must be original, 40 lines or less, and unpublished. No simultaneous submissions. 2. Each poem must be =B3typed=B2 neatly on white 8 1/2 x 11 paper. 3. Poems must be in good taste. 4. Maximum three poems each Division, nine poems total. 5. SEND TWO COPIES of each poem. Type Division entered in top right hand corner. One copy must have NO author identification. SECOND COPY ONLY: Below Division name, clearly type poet=B9s name, address, and e-mail address. (Name/address sticker okay.) 6. Entry fees: $2 per poem (Make check payable to RedRock Writers Guild. 7. Must be postmarked on or before Jan. 15, 2003. No Certified Mail. Please, no cash through the mail. 8. Only winners will be notified. No poems will be returned. If you would like the results, include SASE with submissions. 9. Submission indicates permission for winning poems to be published in a chapbook which will be available with registration at the RedRock Writing Seminar. After publication, all rights will revert to the author. Copies of the Chapbook can obtained by non-seminar attendees for $5, plus $1 s&h. =20 MAIL ENTRIES TO: D. Gary Christian, 2110 N. Blake Dr., Santa Clara, UT 84765. Seventh Annual RedRock Writing Seminar, March 21-22, 2003! For information, registration, please contact Gary Christian: viking@redrock.net. ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 05:26:43 +0000 From: "Andrew Hall" Subject: [AML] Huebner Film (SL Tribune) SATURDAY January 11, 2003 Film Tells Anti-Nazi Mormon's Story BY PEGGY FLETCHER STACK THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Ear pressed to a contraband French radio for hours during the summer of 1941, Helmuth Huebner discovered Nazi lies through British news reports on BBC. It would cost the 16-year-old Mormon boy his life. As a youngster, Huebner had been involved in the Hitler Youth organization, caught up in the National Socialist Party's promise of restoring order and pride to Germany. But slowly, he began to see the racism and brutality of that movement. For his efforts to alert the population, Huebner was executed. His story has been told in a play, several articles and books, including The Price: The True Story of a Mormon Who Defied Hitler by Karl-Heinz Schnibbe, Huebner's friend, with help from Brigham Young University scholars Alan Keele and Douglas Tobler. Now it is the subject of a documentary, "Truth & Conviction," written and directed by Matt Whitaker and Rick McFarland and produced by Covenant Communications in Orem. It features interviews with several German Mormons who knew Huebner or the LDS branch where he worshiped, as well as Schnibbe, Keele and Tobler. It will be aired on KBYU in February and is also available on video and DVD. This is a revealing tale of how The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints struggles to survive in every society, even those run by dictators. Huebner's tiny LDS branch in Hamburg was divided in its support for Hitler. Arthur Zander, the branch president, was a member of the Nazi Party. He sometimes brought his radio, locking the door so members would have to listen to Hitler's speeches. One Sunday in 1938, Zander posted a sign, "Jews Not Welcome Here," on the church's front door. "Zander wanted to show that Latter-day Saints were good Germans," said Tobler, who teaches history. Two years later, with newfound knowledge filling his head, Huebner decided it was time to take action. He churned out critical leaflets, by hand and on the church's typewriter. In 29 different fliers, he contradicted the government's assessments about the war, satirized Nazi propaganda and even called Hitler the great "Anti-Christ." He enlisted his two best friends, Schnibbe and Rudi Wobbe, both church members, to help him distribute the fliers surreptitiously on city streets. Within six months, the three were arrested by the Gestapo. Wobbe and Schnibbe, who dismissed their efforts as a childish prank, spent the rest of the war in a German prison. Some years later, the two separately emigrated to Salt Lake City. Huebner, who took full responsibility for his writings and stood by them to the end, spent eight months in prison. On Oct. 27, 1942, at 8:15 a.m., he was executed by guillotine. Huebner's life and work were not automatically celebrated by other Mormons in Germany, said Keele, a German cultural historian, in the film. To many, it was a question of survival under Hitler's regime. In 1937, LDS Church President Heber J. Grant had visited the country and urged the members to stay there, try to get along, and not cause trouble. It is not surprising, Keele said, that some saw Huebner as a troublemaker whose actions made things tough for other Mormons. A few days after Huebner's initial arrest, Zander had scrawled, "Excommunicated," on the young pamphleteer's Mormon membership records. By contrast, Zander's first counselor, Otto Berndt, was sympathetic to Huebner and critical of the Nazis. Some thought Berndt might have been behind Huebner's activities. He was briefly questioned by the Gestapo, who let him go, Schnibbe says in the film, but gave an ominous warning -- "After Jews, Mormons will be next," In 1946, Huebner's church membership was reinstated, with a new note: "Excommunicated by mistake." Copyright 2003, The Salt Lake Tribune. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 23:18:20 -0700 From: Melissa Proffitt Subject: Re: [AML] Reading Level of _Ender's Game_ On Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:57:30 -0700, Kathy Fowkes wrote: >Please, someone, tell me I'm not insane. My 9th grade son just came home= and >informed me that his school library has OSC's _Ender's Game_ listed at a= 5th >grade reading level. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I read that book = recently, >and it has a very complex plot and at least a high school level = vocabulary, >doesn't it? Not to mention the plot itself containing some intense = themes. > I am not an expert on reading levels, etc., but I do know that very often= a book's reading level does not take plot or theme into account; it will be strictly a matter of how complex the vocabulary and structure is. I've = also found that the listed reading level for a particular book will vary depending on who is doing the evaluating. If someone *does* know of a nationally recognized standard, I'd like to hear about it. Usually a = school district will set its own standard (the online searches I did turned up a lot of Accelerated Reader book lists for different states, and I tracked particular books that had five or six different reading levels listed). >I don't own this book, so those of you who are more informed on OSC's = work, >what is the national Reading Level rating for Ender's Game, and can you >possibly give me some ammunition to get it upgraded to at least an 8th = grade >level at my kid's school? He wants to read it for an assignment, and = sheesh! >It would be great for him to read that! Really make him think and feel. Again, this isn't something I have to deal with, so I don't know how = useful my thoughts will be. One well-known method for calculating readability = is the SMOG Readability Formula: http://www.sph.emory.edu/WELLNESS/reading.html This explains how to do it yourself. You'll need a calculator. Or... http://linda-andrews.com/readability_tool.htm This is a simplified version that does the calculation for you. If you = use these, and it comes up with a higher grade level, that would be one = weapon to use. (And no, I'm not going to get my copy and do it, much as the = idea intrigues me, because it's late and I'm lazy. ;) I happen to know that _Ender's Game_ was used as a textbook in a high = school course in Richland, Washington, because that's where my brothers and = sisters read it. It's also been used in college curricula. That would be a = strong point in favor of its being appropriate for a high-school age kid. Maybe call up the university and see whether it's been used past or present. Or you could go into the principal's office and read aloud the scene = where Ender beats his worst enemy into a bloody pulp. :) I think there are some real flaws in how reading level is determined, = based on what I found in looking for books for my 8-year-old. Some of the = lists had books for fourth and fifth grade that I wouldn't want kids reading = until they had a little more experience with literature. But I think it comes down to parents being aware of what their children are reading and asking for necessary revisions--just what you're doing. Melissa Proffitt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 06:50:07 -0700 From: "Steve Perry" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher Movies News On Friday, January 10, 2003, at 03:50 PM, Kathy Fowkes wrote: > Kathy, I hardly ever disagree with you. On this one, however, I do. I > couldn't stand the guy who played Joseph Smith in _Legacy_. I hated > his > performance the first time I saw it, and hated it just as much again > when I > watched it with my family a few months ago. I agree. I saw it once wanting very much to love it, but the JS character was so simpering and sensitive (in every bad way) and false that I've never been able to talk myself into seeing it again. This, also, before I'd heard any of the rumors. Just watch--I'll get to the other side and find out this was a dead-on portrayal of the prophet and that Christ (as portrayed in Testaments) really WAS a hulking Swede of viking descent! :-) Steve - -- skperry@mac.com http://stevenkappperry.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 08:47:03 -0500 From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Reading Level of _Ender's Game_ Kathy Fowkes wrote: > > I don't own this book, so those of you who are more informed on OSC's work, > what is the national Reading Level rating for Ender's Game, and can you > possibly give me some ammunition to get it upgraded to at least an 8th grade > level at my kid's school? He wants to read it for an assignment, and sheesh! > It would be great for him to read that! Really make him think and feel. If you like, I can send you a letter on official stationary that testifies I taught Enders Game in an upper-level college literature course. Like Huck Finn, the novel is appropriate for many ages. You can appreciate as a fifth-grader, sure, but the older you get, the more nuanced it becomes. The edition I taught from includes a foreword by card that includes a couple of powerful testimonials from adults who found the book to be life-changing. If interested, send me your address. Tony Markham State University of New York at Delhi - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 07:07:50 -0700 From: "Kim Madsen" Subject: RE: [AML] Nedra Roney Profile "Nedra"? What kind of name is that? I think it must be uniquely Utahn, yet it's the fourth Nedra I've heard of in my life. All here in Utah. Maybe it was someone's was of honoring the father or grandfather named Ned. I couldn't find it in my name books, but there was an entry for "Nedda" which is a feminine form of Ned, short for Edward, which means "born on a Sunday". The original bastardization of "Nedra" could have happened because an English immigrant to Utah was misunderstood with his high-brow accent, dropping the R as he stood to give his new daughter a name and blessing in front of the congregation...(wink, wink...always looking for a story)....or maybe the dad was called Ned and the mom was Rapunzel and they wanted to combine names for their sweet little one... Actually, I just googled it and found out it's a Latin derivative. Female. Means awareness. The things you find out on the internet... Kim Madsen - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:37:42 -0600 From: "Rose Green" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher Movies News >I couldn't stand the guy who played Joseph Smith in _Legacy_. I hated his >performance the first time I saw it, and hated it just as much again when I >watched it with my family a few months ago. I have to admit this, too. I liked the rest of the film very much, but I thought that the performance of Joseph Smith entirely missed the point. The actor seemed to think he was hired to portray a megalomaniac or something. I didn't see an ordinary guy going who happened to have extraordinary revelations, going through terrible trials. I saw a guy who wanted all the lights on him, and a crown and scepter to go with it. Since I WAS convinced by the rest of the acting, the JS portrayal was so much worse, in my opinion. Ugh! Rose Green _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:00:43 -0700 From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: Re: [AML] Clay MCCONKIE, _The Ten Lost Tribes_ (Review) Susan, Four years ago, Patriarch Eldred G. Smith gave my son, Jacob, his blessing. After he did so, he showed us a large bookcase with big journal sized books filling every shelf. He said that he has given about 22,000 blessings and his dad gave close to twenty thousand. You can count on two hands the number of those blessings that specified a lineage other than Joseph (Ephraim/Manasseh) and an occasional Judah. On the hand, Ephraim and Manasseh are numbered among the "lost," aren't they? Roy Schmidt - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 09:25:28 -0800 From: "Jerry Tyner" Subject: RE: [AML] Reading Level of _Ender's Game_ Kathy, I was walking trough Borders bookstore down here last weekend and saw = Ender's Game in a mass market youth version (in the kid's section of the = store) so it is quite possible it may have been brought down some number = of reading levels. I did not grab it and read through it but it did seem = to have been changed in print, etc. With that said I think 5th grade is = too low. You might want to have him check the book out to see if it is = the same you remember.=20 Personally I felt it was high school level at a minimum when I read it = as well as the new series (Ender's Shadow, etc.). He may need to check = it out of the public library rather than the school. Personal opinion, of course. Jerry Tyner Orange County, CA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 12:35:38 -0800 From: "Richard B. Johnson" Subject: RE: [AML] Nedra Roney Profile a common Mormon name. I know at least four of them and seem to remember a fifth. Of course all of us are between fifty and seventy years old so the naming process back west may have changed. I even know a Southern non Mormon Luana, something impossible in my youth. Richard Johnson - -----Original Message----- Also: "Nedra"? What kind of name is that? Eric D. Snider - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:41:48 -0700 From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: RE: [AML] R-Rated Movies <<< This happens all the time. Local leaders trying to do the prophets one better. President Benson makes his audience clear but the local SP reinterprets the audience as broader. I remember seeing this phenomenon within one week's time. I can't remember the details, but Elder Holland made a comment in Conference that young men should be required to wear white shirts to pass the sacrament but should be encouraged. The next week, our SP shared with us the new information that Elder Holland had said that all young men "should" wear white shirts. >>> I can do you one better on the above anecdote. When I worked at the Ensign, I made it a point of personal pride never to wear a white shirt. One time my boss photocopied the page with that Elder Holland quote about deacons wearing white shirts, highlighted the passage, and left it on my chair. I threw it right into the recycle bin, because I'm not a deacon, and even if I were, I didn't anticipate passing the sacrament at work. I still don't comprehend what thought process made him do that. This gets at the heart of something that really bugs me about our culture. What is it about us that we have to allow such HUGE margins of error? If we want to acknowledge God's hand in our lives, lots of us start imputing EVERYTHING to him, seemingly forgetting about the forces of chance and agency. Templegoers are told not to reveal certain specific phrases and gestures, which is fine, but I've had people freak out on me for discussing the way the carpeting is sculpted in the celestial room. I could probably think of lots more examples. It must be that all-or-nothing, black-and-white thinking again, the knee-jerk mental mode we hope will keep us safe from imagined slippery slopes, the same thing we see with some peoples' irrational obsession with arbitrary line-in-the-sand standards such as not going to the prom one day before your sixteenth birthday and shopping at a grocery store 10 miles from your missionary apartment because the one two blocks away is outside your assigned area. Talk about your Mormon Pharisaicism. I've also always felt bothered by our glorification of Joseph Smith for not using alcohol as an anesthetic even though it was the only thing available when his leg was being chopped up. I personally think that's just plain koo-koo. A couple more Church Office Building clothing anecdotes I wanted to spit out: Sometimes I wore a dark-purple dress shirt, and I was hassled a little because my Ensign boss said Pres. Monson thinks purple equals gay. However, I stayed valiant to my principles and continued wearing it in all my passive-aggressive glory, and I did not become gay. Around that same time, I noticed Pres. Faust wear what I think was a pastel purple shirt when he grand-marshalled the Days of '47 parade. A Dilbertian upper manager in the Church curriculum dept. once announced that male employees were not to wear "Doctors" anymore (and that was in a printed memo). We figured out he likely meant Dockers, so I exercised faith and removed the Dockers labels from my pants--and lo and behold, the Spirit immediately rushed into my heart. So it WAS those filthy worldly designer labels that were holding me back. I feel some Sugar Beeting coming on . . . Chris Bigelow - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 10:46:24 -0700 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: [AML] Movie Adaptations: Schindler's List I have finally found a book that is worse in every measure than the movie--Schindler's List. My husband and I bought it nearly nine years ago and started to read it together but never got past the first couple of chapters. I recently decided to go back and read it. Now I know why we stopped. It is horribly written. I am slogging through it (currently about 100 pgs and a month into it). So far it is a series of anecdotes with lots of different people that (so far at least) we never see again and never really connect with. Too many German military ranks are mentioned for me to keep straight--they all look the same anyway. Lots of jumbled backstory included in each anecdote, POV's jumps not only between scenes but within scenes, lots of irritating speculation--"Schindler probably thought this and maybe gave this gesture" type of stuff. It is beyond aggravating. And the worst part is that I'm one of those people who must finish what they start. Usually I guess pretty well what's worth reading in the first place, so it's not a problem. This time it's giving me a headache. I am amazed that someone was able to see through the mess to the real story and write a screenplay that worked. I don't remember if the screenwriter got an Oscar. He deserved one, whoever he is, for creating something so excellent out of nothing. Annette Lyon - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 11:24:49 -0700 From: "Elizabeth Walters" Subject: Re: [AML] Dutcher Movies News We all have our own views on what JS was like. All we have to rely on are diaries from those who knew him, his own writings, and paintings of him which according to church members who knew him aren't true to form. I agree that the JS portrayal in the sweet, but overrated Legacy is probably the best I've seen in all the church portrayals of him which sadly isn't saying much. IMHO, many of the church movies are so way off on their portryal of JS that our own church audience laughs whenever he comes on screen and it's not because he's cracking a joke. They show the prophet as this stuffed shirt pretty boy with a voice that sounds like one of those gay 900 number hotline answering services and he walks like he's seriously constipated! Unless I misread his biographies, people always said he had a slight limp from his bone extracting surgery as a boy. It's my hope that Dutcher get's away from the typical Mormon Paul Bunyan/Ken Barbie doll image of JS and portray him as the man he really was: A New York farmer who was very down to earth, was not afraid of getting his hands dirty, someone who was physically strong for a religious leader, and someone who did have flaws. The sad truth is that church made movies will always be cheesy and badly acted and that's not a knock on Keith Merrill and others. [Elizabeth Walters] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 13:50:46 -0500 From: cathrynlane@cs.com Subject: RE: [AML] Reading Level of _Ender's Game_ I'm really suprised that it was recomended for 5th graders though I read it to my 5th grader. I didn't let him take it to school because I was worried that at our school (conservative southern) someone would be offended by the profanity. (The kids in battle school trash talk quite a bit). The publisher has come out with a new edition with cover art that is aimed at a children and you can now find it at B&N in the kids section so maybe it is a 5th grade reading level. It is a great Jr. High read and I think that 7th or maybe even 6th would love it. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:03:08 -0700 From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: RE: [AML] R-Rated Movies Well, Stephen Carter's query piqued my interest, although I don't really have time to do it justice. I would need a list of all the movies I've ever seen to trigger my memory, and I'd need time and energy to really try to remember and figure out just why they affected me so much. But here's a little list of R-rated movies off the top of my head (in no order) that had a profound affect on my thinking and perception of the world or that I just remember being totally blown away by: Secrets and Lies Dead Man Walking Leaving Las Vegas Requiem for a Dream The Thin Blue Line Startup.com Election Traffic Road Warrior Brazil Blood Simple Silence of the Lambs Pulp Fiction The Ice Storm Memento Blair Witch Project Heavenly Creatures And that doesn't include foreign films whose titles I can't recall. On a related matter, I like to go thru my planner at the end of each year and type up what I saw. So if skimming one man's subjective, unexplained categorization of a year's worth of movie viewing is interesting to you, read on: LOVED Gosford Park All the President's Men Norma Rae LOTR: Two Towers LIKED OK A Beautiful Mind Singles Ward Ice Age Treasure Planet Changing Lanes About a Boy Minority Report Signs To Sir, with Love Red Dragon Guess Who's Coming to Dinner Blue Velvet The Dish The Big Lebowski COULD HAVE MISSED My Big Fat Greek Wedding Spider-Man Star Wars: Episode 2 Spirit Austin Powers in Gold Member Like Mike Harry Potter 2 HATED Big Trouble Blade 2 Punch-Drunk Love Lilo & Stitch Chris Bigelow - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:58:48 -0800 From: Kathy and Jerry Tyner Subject: Re: [AML] Portrayals Of Joseph (Was Dutcher Movie News) No problem. I value your opinion. Which brings up an interesting thought. I can't think of any portrayals of Joseph Smith which have ever, IMHO truly done him full justice or shown him in all his complexity. There's some I liked and thought showed a certain part of Brother Joseph, but always left wanting more. Can anyone think of anything they've seen, be it "Church produced" or otherwise that gave a good or fair showing of him? Maybe that's why I'm so looking forward to "The Prophet". But I'm glad Richard was forthright at the Sunstone Symposium and warned us he's not making this movie to make the rest of us happy. As long as God, Joseph and he are satisfied, then he did was he set out to do. I trust your judgement Richard, look forward to the results. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Fowkes" > Kathy, I hardly ever disagree with you. On this one, however, I do. I > couldn't stand the guy who played Joseph Smith in _Legacy_. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:32:34 -0700 (MST) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] R-Rated Movies Scott Parkin wrote: > * The Name of the Rose. A young priest during the Inquisition attempts to decide > what he believes as he relates experiences featuring his intelligent but flawed > mentor. I don't agree with some of the conclusions, but the questions were asked > with sufficient style and power that they provoked a tremendous amount of > introspection. Have you read the brillant book by Umberto Eco? I hated the movie because it changed the ending (to make it more hollywoodish - in the book, the girl Adso loses his ahem*innocence*ahem with is burned at the stake (and much earlier in the book) - a much more realistic plot development - and the mystery was handled with a lot more flair. The Movie is okay in its way, but having read the book first I was disgusted at the watering down of genius. (Unlike the Lord of the RIngs movies, where the changes and omissions are usually nessecary for translation into a film medium - in Name of the Rose it seemed the changes were made to make it more palatable to an movie going audience). FWIW - --ivan wolfe - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 15:25:16 -0700 (MST) From: Ivan Angus Wolfe Subject: Re: [AML] R-Rated Movies > I'd write more, but I need to go get in line for "Adaptation." Whoops. It's > R-rated. Maybe I should see "The Wild Thornberrys Movie" instead. I'm sure > this PG movie will give me much more insight into the human condition. > > Richard Dutcher As I have no position on the R-rated movie debate, I hope Adaptation is a good movie (by alla ccounts, I have heard it is very well done and entertaining). But I must say, don't knock the Wild Thornberrys - it may not be on the level of a Spike Lee film, but it has its charm. - --ivan wolfe - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 16:15:17 -0700 From: Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] Panelists Needed for LTU&E The science fiction and fantasy symposium at BYU (Feb. 13-15) is still looking for panelists. See http://humanities.byu.edu/ltue/events.html for a list of tentative panels or contact the track heads directly for a more current list: Writing: Charlene Harmon Academic: Ivan Wolfe Media: April Randall Art: Bobbie Berendson Guests this year include Esther Friesner, Patricia Wrede, and Scott Card. We hope to see lots of you there! Marny Parkin - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #943 ******************************