From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #967 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Tuesday, February 4 2003 Volume 01 : Number 967 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:25:17 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Sacred in Writing Justin Halverson wrote: > This is a topic of some interest to me--how does one treat the sacred in > writing? Are there things that shouldn't be written about? I came up against this issue in my very first LDS novel. (Perhaps you've heard of it: _Brother Brigham_?) I had a scene that occurred in the temple. It was a crucial scene in the book and couldn't be omitted. I tried to be as vague about the external details as I could and concentrated on the character's reactions to the events going on around her (it was her first time). I'm quite at peace with the approach I took. Not every reader of my book has been, though. I think it's unfortunate that some people think we should deny our literature access to such a vital and pivotal part of the Mormon experience, based on a misguided and extreme notion of what it means to reverence something sacred. It's the old "sacred = secret" bugaboo again. But then why does the church allow everyone and their dog to tour the temples before they are dedicated, no matter how loathsome scoundrels they may be, and tell them all about the rites that go on in there? Not in detail, certainly, but I didn't go into detail either. "Sacred, not secret" is what we say, but too many Mormons think it says "Sacred means secret." The goings-on in the temple are not secret. There's no reason we need to keep it that way. We are supposed to reverence the temple and its ordinances. That doesn't mean keep silent about them. Literary scenes should take place in the temple as needed by the story. Done with respect, done in a way that doesn't reveal the things we are truly instructed not to reveal, but done nonetheless. After all, the New Testament tells us the story about Zacharias' experiences in the Holy of Holies, and that was one humongously reverenced place. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 17:17:17 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Slate Commentary on CleanFlicks Lawsuit Rich Hammett wrote: > Can you tell that I'm a computer programmer who supports > the Free Source movement? I'd like to hear how you figure software and art are sufficiently comparable to employ the same distribution model to both. Software is utilitarian--only incidentally ever artistic. To modify it is to improve its utility, and that's good for everyone. (I support the Free Source movement too.) Art, on the other hand, is the direct expression of a human mind, and to mess with that is to violate a very personal thing. Scott Bronson's suggested remedy is the correct one for art: if you dislike someone else's expression of ideas, counter it with expression of your own ideas--don't alter the other person's expression to fit your biases. That's tantamount to cheating. If people don't like the content of someone else's films, then they should go make films with content they do like, and sell those to the likeminded audience. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 10:49:39 -0700 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: [AML] Movie Editing at BYU (was: Singles Ward) >-----Original Message----- >Susan M: > >> (A rated R movie at the campus theatre? Does BYU edit movies, or >> something?) > >They used to, back in the old days (i.e., until 1998). Then >they found out that, >whoops, they didn't actually have permission to be doing it >after all, so they >stopped. And it was completely and utterly ineffective. In my day, all they could was put a beep sound over the offensive words, but the lips were still visiable, so, though one didn't actually hear the bad words, one SAW the bad words, with, as far as I was concerned at least, the same mental effect. It was laughable. Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 22:43:33 -0600 From: Jonathan Langford Subject: [AML] Mod Message: Signing Posts Folks, Just a reminder that all posts should be signed at the bottom. I've been having to cut and paste names from the "From" field into the bottom of the post, and that takes up time and, if only to a slight degree, cuts into timely distribution of AML-List. Thanks for your help. Jonathan Langford AML-List Moderator - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 11:59:12 -0800 (PST) From: Mary Aagard Subject: Re: [AML] Slate Commentary on CleanFlicks Lawsuit I have such a hard time with Scott Bronson's argument in all of this because= for one, (in the case of film) he makes it sound like the director is the= soul owner of a film. Filmmaking is a collaborative art. Though directors= like to take credit for all of the work, there are writers, actors, set= designers, music composers, etc. that add to and shape a film just as much= as the director does. Sure, the director is often the driving force behind= the project but she needs the expertise and creative vision of other people= to create her art. The director shouldn't have single authority over a= film, it isn't only hers. Second, if a film gets sold to a distributer or= is under the authority of a production company, that company has the right= to the film. It becomes a commodity, a product (things may be different in= other countries, but here in America, under the Hollywood system, this= seems to be how it is). If all means of production and distrubution are= controlled by the director, then maybe she can have a strict say over how= the film is viewed. =20 What about films being distributed in a full screen (pan and scan) version= that were originally shot in a wide screen format? Isn't that altering the= work of the director? Shouldn't that be seen as unwanted, illegal even,= editing by the director? The truth is, they can't stop those versions= being distributed because they don't own the film, big names like Spielberg= and Coppola may have a say in how their films are packaged, but most= directors don't. =20 If CleanFlicks (and other companies that create similar services) is proven= to be breaking copyright law then so be it. They'll have to stop. The= whole issue is copyright and if services like CleanFlicks are legal. Once= a work of art is released to the public, and especially works of art that= must be purchased, like books and movies, the creator really has no control= over what is done with it. =20 And I have a question for those you write and produce plays: Is it against= copyright, or fair use of the material, to omit lines of dialogue, to skip= scenes to ignore stage directions written into the play? Of must every= word be spoken, etc. to make the production legal? =20 [Mary Aagard] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 16:02:47 -0800 From: "Christine Atkinson" Subject: Re: [AML] R.M. Movie Soundtrack Mike South wrote: My band recorded the other version of of "Onward Christian Soldiers" on the soundtrack (not the "hey ho" one) and as far as I know, we didn't get any kind of direction on what sort of feeling the song needed to convey. It was pretty much up to us to arrange it as we wanted to. We were given no idea how it was to fit into the context of the film. Hey Mike, When did Strech Armstrong record the song? Did the band get back together to do the recording? (For some reason, I thought that the filmmakers snagged an "unauthorized" version for the movie. ) And why don't I have it in my collection? [Christine Atkinson] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2003 17:23:26 -0700 From: "Gae Lyn Henderson" Subject: RE: [AML] Effects of DB Policy (was: What I Did At Deseret Book) D. Michael: [snip of editor's comment] Could the influence of Deseret Book's policies be made any clearer? No it couldn't be any clearer! I am so sad that this is the path our culture is taking--and Deseret Book has to take responsibility for their lack of vision! Instead of encouraging literary quality an odd kind of censorship is taking place which to me seems an awful dead end. Gae Lyn Henderson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Feb 2003 17:28:21 -0700 From: Barbara Hume Subject: [AML] Evangelical Fiction & Movies At 05:01 PM 1/29/03 -0700, you wrote: >I actually read that whole series of books by Tim LaHaye and Jerry >Jenkins, desperately trying to wade past the regurgitated plot line (to clue >people in who might have started in the middle of the series), the wooden >dialogue and the diadactisim to get to the story, which in itself is pretty >interesting. I've read them, too, although there are parts I skip. Can't stand Nicholae, so I fast-forward through his sections. The writers are pretty good at building tension in the action parts, though. I don't think the series is finished--at least, the last one I read still had the Anti-Christ in the catbird seat. The end times is a really good subject for fiction, IMHO. It's just weird reading about a good-vs-evil scenario that completely leaves out Salt Lake City and the Mormon ways of doing things! The evangelical world doesn't have the structure we do--at least, it didn't the last time I lived in it. barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1970 22:00:17 -0800 From: Jared Walters Subject: Re: [AML] R-Rated Movies D. Michael wrote: "This shows the foolishness of trying to produce nonoffensive art (in Mormon terminology: "uplifting art"). It's impossible to offend nobody, so to try is insane. (Trying to do that which is impossible is insanity, right?) All an artist can do (not all he _should_ do, but literally all he _can_ do) is create honest art according to how he understands truth. Anything else is a lie and a waste of time. This is why the church produced films have been mediocre at best. This is why Deseret Book and Covenant Communication have doomed themselves to mediocrity." If only it were that simple for a film maker to just say that he's gonna make the movie he wants without any regard to what the public will think. The sad reality of hollywood is artistic freedom is only as good as its box office take. You can make a film that's a true masterpiece after your own heart, but if the public isn't gonna buy into that vision then you're out of a job. It's all about making money. There are some exceptions like Stanley Kubrick who got to make the kind of films he wanted to which were nearly always artistic masterpieces, but never commercial successes. The main reason why he got away with it is that he had developed such a reputation over the decades as a sort of Halley's comet of directors who made a movie once in a while, but it would be one that had critics talking. Top actors and producers were weaned on his legend so the support was always there. But back to the topic. In today's politically correct and media crazy world, the public is very sensitive to any kind of entertainment directed at the general public. People blame hollywood for just about every calamity in the world from violent crimes to poor education about another culture. Most of it of course is a crock of you-know-what, but it's not an outrageous concept anymore that hollywood certainly has some responsibility to the public on what "art" it puts out there and deserves some degree of accountability to the awesome influence it has people throughout the world. I'll disagree with your disagreement that the days of Ben Hur and Ten commandments are "not gone." There's just no way a biblical based movie can be made on a grand scale as the said movies were and those movies were mainstream flicks aimed at a wide audience. Last Temptation of Christ wasn't made on a huge budget and the people involved were aiming for more critical then commercial praise knowing they were gonna tick off a lot of people. But it wouldn't make practical sense as a Hollywood producer to make a big budget epic like Ben Hur these days because it would simply cost too darn much even with a ton of blue screen and CGI work and there'd be little guarantee you'd break even on a religious movie. There's always the chance of a movie like that having a Titanic effect on moviegoers making the gamble more than pay off, but Hollywood odds on a gamble can be much tougher than Vegas odds. [Jared Walters] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 09:40:17 -0500 From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Singles Ward A family that I home teach here in the backwoods hosted a visit from one of the missionaries who served in the area years ago. She brought a along a VHS copy of the SW and left it. I borrowed it and watched it with my wife last week. We had what we call an "Ishtar Effect," which is when a movie has gotten such horrible, horrible pre-publicity that we are inclined to hate it prematurely, see it anyway, and are then curious as to why everybody hated it so much. This happened with "Ishtar" and some other movies, and now "SW." I can kind of understand that the closer you live to the epicenter of Mormondom, the less likely you will be able to enjoy the film. But 20 years and 2000 miles away from Provo, Salt Lake, and the student / singles ward lifestyle, it was a fun jaunt down memory lane. And here's an admission--when the comedian guy had his prayerful epiphany up in the Avenues overlooking City Creek Park and the Temple, re-living the special moments of his childhood--I, for one, felt those unmistakable stirrings of the spirit. I think you guys are entitled not to like anything you don't like, but here's one voice to the contrary. It was kind of fun. But my wife and I both agreed after seeing the film, that if we still lived in Provo, we'd have probably gone insane by now. And if not, then seeing this movie would have pushed us over the edge. One moment that I truly loved was the song by Mismash over the closing credits. Their sound is a lot like a band called Fleming and John. I've done a basic Google search for albums or websites for Mismash, but no luck. Can anybody help? Tony Markham Delhi, NY - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 11:39:32 -0700 From: Marny Parkin Subject: [AML] Life, the Universe, & Everything XXI Schedule It's time once again for Life, the Universe, & Everything XXI, the science fiction and fantasy symposium at BYU. The symposium will be February 13-15 (the weekend before the AML conference) and it's FREE (except the Saturday banquet). Guests of Honor are Patricia Wrede, Esther Friesner, and Orson Scott Card (Thursday only). Below is a TENTATIVE schedule of panels. Anyone who would like to be on a volunteer, please contact Steve Harmon at . For more information, see http://humanities.byu.edu/ltue/ Marny Parkin http://home.earthlink.net/~marnyparkin/ _________________________ *NOTE: Check registration room for current reading and book signing schedules. They are likely to change a bit between now and the symposium. Book signings are at 3 pm daily. Readings are at 5 pm daily and 6 pm Thursday and Friday.. *NOTE: Orson Scott Card is ONLY going to be at LTUE on Thursday. (But he IS taking part in the Salt Lake Library gala events.) *The LTUE web page is now updated http://humanities.byu.edu/ltue *There is also an game demo room and a video room. Halfway to the answer: Life, the Universe and Everything 21 The Marion K. "Doc" Smith Symposium on Science Fiction and Fantasy WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2003 7:30-9:00 pm: Barnes and Noble, 355 E. 1300 South, Orem Meet the guests, light refreshment, book signings. THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 2003 9:00-9:50: + Open mike poetry reading (bring your poetry to share with others!) + Social Behavior 10:00-10:50: + Attending cons as an unknown pro: + Research and the Web: How to find the right web sites for all your SF research needs. + Principles of Sentience 11:00-11:50: + Main Address: Orson Scott Card Noon-12:50: + Career building--what do I do AFTER I publish a story? + Filking 101: Learn the basics of filking! + Politics of War + Sally Taylor presentation "The Power of Song in Tolkien, Shakespeare, C.S. Lewis, and Orson Scott Card." 1:00-1:50: + The importance of genealogy in fantasy fiction + Science Fiction and the Laws of Physics: You may scoff, but can the two terms be used in the same sentence and still be used accurately? + Metaphysics and Magic + Ann Chamberlin: The Medieval Calendar 2:00-2:50: + Enchantment and world building: building a believable magic + Spielberg's Work: A look at some of Steven Spielberg's SF films (Jurassic Park, A.I., Minority Report, etc.) and their role as social commentary. + Race and Gender Relations + Concept Art 3:00-3:50: + Fairy Tales: "things that go bump in the night" the original horror stories? + Book signing: Orson Scott Card, Ann Chamberlin, Krys Morgan + Intro to Costuming: An interactive panel/presentation about the basics of costuming. + Social Structures + Norman Peercy paper "L. E. Modesett" 4:00-4 50: + Pat Castelli: "The Best SF for Children and YA literature." + Changing Technology: Going from megs to gigs: How changing technology affects writers and filmmakers. + Noble Savages + Jenna Eatough presentation "Mercenaries in the real world" 5:00-5:50: + Reading: Orson Scott Card + Book to Movie and Never Back: How do you have to change a book to make it work as a movie? How did Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter do this? Has anyone ever written a novelization of or from film/TV that worked particularly well as a novel? + CYOW workshop: The Social World + Villains 6:00-6:50: + Readings: Ann Chamberlin and Susan Kroupa (1/2 hour each, goes until 7 pm) + Peter Jackson's Take on Tolkien: Has Peter Jackson stayed true to Tolkien's trilogy so far? Will he do so in the future? + Digital Art 7:00-7:50: + Advanced Costuming 7:00-9:00: + activities/games FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 2003 9:00-9:50: + Grungy Grammar: the use and abuse of passive voice + Bad Science in the Movies: A presentation on examples of bad science found in the movies by Thea Buell. + Zoology 10:00-10:50: + From idea to story: You have a great idea, how to turn it into a great story? Read or Watch? Books, TV, and Film: Books allow you to use your own imagination. Television shows expand the world the characters are in because of multiple seasons. Films can tell the story in a bigger way. But which medium portrays SF best? + Methods and Medium 11:00-11:50: + Main Address: Esther M. Friesner Noon-12:50: + Writing a gripping first chapter, or writing hooks that catch their interest + Quick & Dirty Costuming: Need a costume? Need it now? Learn how to get costumes, the quick and dirty way! + Geophysics + Realism in sci-fi, horror and fantasy 1:00-1:50: + SF/F as social commentary + Muggles, Magic, and Murder: Is Harry Potter ideal for children or adults? + Meteorology and Ecology + Terry O'Brien presentation "Fair Gods and Feathered Serpents" + A Brief History of Illustration 2:00-2:50: + The OTHER Tolkien: Tolkien wrote much more than _The Hobbit_ and _Lord of the Rings._ A look at his OTHER work. + Religion, Science Fiction, and Fantasy: Are the three compatible? Does being a fan of SF debunk faith and religion? If not, then why not? + The Power of Faith + Celtic Music + Creating Characters 3:00-3:50: + Tolkien's Children: What in JRR Tolkien has influenced a generation of writers and film makers? + Book signing, Esther M. Friesner, Susan Kroupa, Ken Rand + Copyright Crisis: Exactly how far do copyright laws extend? Find out how scared George Lucas and other media bigwigs are getting. + High technology and astrophysics + Kurt Haas and students Three short papers and discussion 4:00-4:50: + Chicks in Chainmail: The woman warrior + From Planet of the Apes to Galaxy Quest: A discussion of why our society speculates with SF through the media. + Ancestry and History + Kurt Haas and students, cont. + Pictures and Poetry: Ladies Elemental 5:00-5:50: + Reading: Patricia C. Wrede + A Jedi Shall Not Know Love: A discussion of Jedi and their emotions. + CYOW workshop: The Physical World + Artists Legal Rights 6:00-6:50: + Farewell Farscape and all failures (Strange Luck, Space Precinct, Roswell, Dark Angel, etc.) Powerful corporations devote enormous commitments of time and talent and money to produce a pilot, let alone a season. Why/how do programs get canceled? Could\Should we do anything about it? How and when? + Textile arts + Swordsmanship Demo 6:00-7:30(ish): + Readings: Ken Rand, Scott Parkin, Lee Allred, Lee Ann Setzer (1/2 hour or so each) 7:30-11:00: + Contra Dance (costumes optional) 7:30-8:00, beginning Contra / 8-11, Contra Dance. *Dances will be taught at the dance, so you don't need to know them in advance. SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 15, 2003 9:00-10:50: + Light and Dark images in LOTR: The use of light and dark, good and evil images in Tolkien's trilogy, and what they represent + Anime for the Family: Showing that there are classics that are okay for kids but won't bore adults. 10:00-10:50: + Light and Dark Images, cont. + If it sounds too good to be true...: writing scams and how to avoid them. + SF and FX: Is it possible to make an SF movie without using any special effects? A discussion of options available to budget movie makers. + Falconry + Beginning your art career 11:00-11:50: + Main Address: Patricia C. Wrede Noon-12:50: + Mystical Storytelling: Using cards, games, guinea pigs, and other means to come up with story ideas. + Recommended Anime: An anime review panel. + Weapons and Armor: melee + Special Effects, Past and Future 1:00-1:50: + Moral Themes in Fantasy and the concept of Good and Evil in SF/F + _Washed by a Wave of Wind_: After 10 years, how has it affected Utah writers and the community? + The What, Why, and Wherefore of Star Wars Episode III: Discussing what has been revealed so far about Episode III and how the prequels fit in with episodes IV-VI. + Weapons and Armor: missile + Storyboarding 2:00-2:50: + Following through: You have a good hook. Now keep their attention + Star Wars Costumes: (2-hour panel) Everything you needed to know about making costumes from the Star Wars movies, from Jedi garb to Amidala's dresses! + Storytelling + Steve Setzer paper "Frodo and Harry" + Jen Wahlquist presentation 3:00-3:50: + Paul N. Hyde paper "The Foundations of Middle Earth: The Linguistic Aesthetic of J.R.R. Tolkien." + Workshop: Story creation (Brook and Julia West) + Book signing: Patricia C. Wrede, M. Shayne Bell + Star Wars Costumes (cont.) + Feudal life + Keele's Korner 4:00-4:50: + Teaching Science Fiction in the classroom + Workshop: story creation, cont. (Brook and Julia West) + Reading: M. Shayne Bell + For Every Good There is an Evil: A discussion of how good and evil are portrayed in SF media using actors, set design, lighting, costuming, and the works. + Concept to Creation 5:00-5:50: + Reading: Esther M. Friesner + The Fickle Finger of Fandom: Why and how does a program (eg. _Star Trek_) gain legions of fanatics? + CYOW workshop: Synthesis + Finding your style 6:00-7:50: + Banquet (buy tickets in the registration room) - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 14:14:44 -0800 (PST) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: RE: [AML] Disappointing People - --- Stephen Carter wrote: > > But a strange thing happened. The harder I tried to dig into my soul and > show > her the roots of my spirituality (or lack thereof) the more convinced > she > became that I was on the high road to apostasy. [snip] I feel badly about the situation you describe. I have no idea what you can do to make it better, other than continuing to show kindness and forbearance. It sounds like you have traveled down the road with her about as far as you can. She has problems that are beyond the ability of you yourself to fix. Perhaps you were meant to learn from this the painful lesson that, in this telestial sphere, misunderstandings are inevitable and you should just carry on and do the best you can. It sounds like your housemate is what I like to think of as "radically innocent" (a condition not uncommon in Latter-day Saints.) That is, she really isn't aware of the alternatives that are out there. There is an alleged "humor" site on the Web put out by ex-members that is full of rancor and hatred toward the church. (I'm not going to name it; it's already too easy to find as it is.) Next to it, "The Sugar Beet" looks like "The Ensign." On the few occasions I have visited the site I have quickly been driven away by revulsion. It exudes the same spirit as white supremacist and other hate groups. That is the true spirit of anti-Mormonism and it sounds like your friend is unacquainted with it. The same could be said about the "R-rated" thread. You can't compare mature, responsible adult content in mainstream books and movies with genuine hard core pornography. That stuff is nauseating, depressing and anti-human, and anyone with a modicum of the spirit with immediately flee from it. Many anti-pornography crusaders have no idea what they are crusading against and tend to lump into their disapproval anything that offends their severly limited perspective. You don't have to revel in the opposition's activities; but you should at least know what you are talking about. ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:07:31 -0700 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] The RM and Mormon films (BYU Newsnet)=20 I was half convinced to see The RM until I read this line: >"There's so much trash in Hollywood right now," Allred said. >"I don't like going to a movie feeling like I need to go to >church right after, feeling guilty. Another excited but myopic LDS actor thinking that film making is only about being inoffensive. Richard Dutcher, do you have another noose on that rope? Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 19:52:19 -0700 From: Barbara Hume Subject: [AML] God's Army (was: Single's Ward) At 06:02 PM 1/31/03 -0500, you wrote: >And >I think this could possibly be a response to Richard Dutcher, who >stretches it >sometimes, I think, in the sermonizing moments in his work. I mean, I was put >off by the fact that Elder Allen in God's Army got his conversion in a single >night. At least in Singles Ward there was no overwrought line like "Father!" >to tell you what he figured out. I think he persisted until he got it--the length of time it took was irrelevant. His prayerful struggle with his lack of a genuine testimony made me think of Enos in the Book of Mormon--a guy who prayed and prayed until he got what he knew he needed. It took him all day. I, on the other hand, when the missionaries finally got me to get on my knees and pray sincerely, was whammed upside the head with an answer in about 20 seconds. (We won't talk about how long it took me to get off my high horse and get on my knees.) Anyway, I thought this was a meaningful scene about personal revelation, the heart of the gospel, and the main reason for most people to join the Church. And I thought that the single word "Father" was as concise and direct a way as possible to show that the boy finally, at last, got it. barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:05:32 -0700 From: Barbara Hume Subject: [AML] Mormon Lit and Interesting Questions One result of reading Mormon fiction can be (I will not say should be) coming across a concept that makes you think or question in a way you haven't before. I've noticed that many concepts that strike me as odd seem taken for granted by many lifelong Mormons; perhaps they absorb these concepts while sucking on a baby bottle on Mom's lap during Family Home Evening. As an adult convert, I missed out on childhood conditioning. Anita Stansfield has made me stop and think a few times. The list may remember that I started a rather lengthy thread here not too long ago when I questioned the anguish one of her characters felt because he had been told that his children could not be sealed to him, but to his wife's villainous ex-husband. I found that concept distasteful, and I still do. (I don't even remember what final solution the list came up with, because I like my own opinions. That's one of my problems.) Anyway, I've been reading another of her novels (can't remember the title, but it's too sappy for the book), and in this one a character says that in the Atonement, Jesus not only suffered for our sins, but also took on himself the grief we feel when life deals us a dirty blow. Thanks to him, we don't have to experience all the anguish that comes when, say, the man who said he would love you forever now says he's found his true soulmate and wants you and the kids out of his life. Once the wounded character internalized that concept, she found peace. Is this something you've always understood? Have I slept through too many Sunday School lessons? barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:57:54 -0500 From: "Amelia Parkin" Subject: Re: [AML] Singles Ward Laraine, thanks for picking this movie apart so beautifully. as you all saw yesterday, i hated it. i still do but at least you have helped me to see that it doesn't completely reinforce everything horrible about the Mormon singles scene. I don't necessarily think that all of what you point out was done purposefully (though I readily admit i could be very wrong since i don't know a single person involved in the making of the film). however, you have made me remember something Louis Althusser wrote about how art (he said great art--regardless of your eloquent defense of Singles Ward I can't call it that)--back to althusser--how art paired with an accurate portrayal of reality cannot help but reveal the power structures at play in society, in spite of whatever the piece of art's stated purpose is. i only wish that _singles ward_ had foregrounded its commentary just slightly so that more of its viewing public had understood what you articulated. but then, perhaps such things are better absorbed in a state of distraction, as another wonderful marxist argued, rather than consciously. amelia _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:17:54 -0700 From: Knudsen family Subject: Re: [AML] Singles Ward Hmmm, I saw it as a satire! Guess it's all in the eye of the beholder. Ronda W. Knudsen Amelia Parkin wrote: > And the > fact that anyone made a campy comedy rather than a satire about this > culture, a work of art that completely reinforces it without > questioning it, depresses me. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 21:07:21 -0600 From: Ronn! Blankenship Subject: Re: [AML] Disappointing People At 07:36 AM 1/31/03 -0800, Ed Snow wrote: >Stephen, your story reminded me of some interactions I had with >"disappointing people" about one of my Sugar Beet articles a while back. > >In my piece, I had a Mormon scripture tote bag manufacturer producing a >novel new tote bag design by copying a Jewish phylactery (which anciently >carried small passages of scripture wrapped around the head or arm) but >enlarging it to hold a small Mormon quad. The company called it a >"Prophylactery" with pride because it protected the scriptures *and* had a >tie into a venerable ancient Hebrew form of scripture "toting." > >Several Mormons were irate about this, Maybe the real reason they were annoyed was because they thought you were making a sexual reference ("prophylactic"). - -- Ronn! :) Almighty Ruler of the all, Whose Power extends to great and small, Who guides the stars with steadfast law, Whose least creation fills with awe, O grant thy mercy and thy grace, To those who venture into space. (Robert A. Heinlein's added verse to the Navy Hymn) - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 22:23:41 -0500 From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: Re: [AML] R-Rated Movies Larry Jackson wrote: >Just for tweaks and grins, I thought I would mention that >there is a drive-in movie theater in Texas that claims to >be family oriented, and as a policy does not screen >R-rated movies. [...] >the years: it first opened as the Circle S back in 1950; >became the Town & Country Drive-in 14 years later; >and was renamed The Last Picture Show in 1989. They don't show R-rated movies, but they named the theater after an R-rated movie? (A very good R-rated movie, at that.) Hmm... Eric D. Dixon - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 20:24:52 -0700 From: Deborah and Mike South Subject: [AML] Movie Music (was: R.M. Movie Soundtrack) Kim Madsen wrote: > Thanks from taking a break from lurking to putting in your two cents. It > always helps flesh out the stories behind the scenes to hear from people > involved in various projects. Glad to hear from you. I was making > assumptions when I posted my previous comments, and you know what they say > about the danger of doing that... and in a separate thread (but on a related note), in his review of "The R.M.", Eric Snider mentioned: > The soundtrack, which again features familiar LDS tunes re-cast in modern > styles, is fun on its own but distracting within the film. I think I would have made the same assumption Kim made (that the flow of the songs on the soundtrack mirrored the flow of the film) had I not been part of the process. My sense is that these filmmakers see the soundtrack as a marketing tool rather than an integral part of the film. That's just a hunch - -- I have no direct experience to back it up -- but I understand that they had already finished filming by the time we recorded the song for them. They had no idea what our version of the song would sound like, but I've been told a chunk of it ended up in the movie (full disclosure: I haven't seen either film this team has made). That would mean the filmmakers found a place they thought the song would fit after the fact. With this film, that's probably okay...at best it's just a lightweight comedy and not much of a commentary on the human or Mormon condition. But, the disparity between the film and it's soundtrack got me to thinking... How important is music to telling a story? Can (or should) the music be as important to the progression of the plot and development of character as the acting, directing, and script? Are there possibilities for using music to tell our stories outside of film or theater? Is music inherently manipulative when used in conjunction with telling a story? I think a good example of a movie soundtrack that melds the songs to the visuals and story is "Rushmore" (does that make this part of the R-rated thread?). The songs are mostly little gems from the 1960s, but are placed in the film in such a way as to illuminate the motivations behind many of the characters and to move the plot along quite nicely. I hear those songs on their own now and I can't help but think of the scenes they're related to in the film. And, in this case, I think that's a good thing. Then, there are movies like "Forrest Gump" where, IMO, the songs were there to convince me how I should feel at any given moment rather than helping me understand the story or characters better. Not necessarily bad, but not nearly as effective as "Rushmore". What do you think? - --Mike South (I swear, I'll go back to lurking sooner or later.) - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:28:45 -0700 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: [AML] Shameful First Works (was: Singles Ward) I would be glad to stage a reading of my awful first play, "The Tree." I reread this not too long ago and, I like the story, but the dialogue is oh so crappy. Let's do this. Sort of a Mormon Science Theatre 3000 session. Thom >-----Original Message----- >I vote yes to a public viewing of "Girl Crazy." Actually, >wouldn't it be fun for a bunch of us to read or display some >of our early work and reveal what garbage we've put our names >to? Sounds like a fun AML session to me. > >________________ >Margaret Young - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #967 ******************************