From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #980 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, February 21 2003 Volume 01 : Number 980 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:03:22 -0500 From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: Re: [AML] Programming as Art D. Michael wrote: >Programming is not art. There are similarities in the intuitive approach >to design between art and programming. Programming can be artistic, but >that doesn't make it art. The two have radically different purposes. I've always found Frank Zappa's definition of art most useful: that the only thing separating *anything* from being art is a "frame" -- a declaration of the boundaries of a particular artistic creation. Anything is art when the creator declares it to be art, and the rest of us can argue about whether it's any good, as a matter of taste. >From _The Real Frank Zappa Book_: The most important thing in art is The Frame. For painting: literally; for other arts: figuratively--because, without this humble appliance, you can't know where The Art stops and The Real World begins. You have to put a 'box' around it because otherwise, what is that s*** on the wall? If John Cage, for instance, says, "I'm putting a contact microphone on my throat, and I'm going to drink carrot juice, and that's my composition," then his gurgling qualifies as his composition because he put a frame around it and said so. "Take it or leave it, I now will this to be music." After that it's a matter of taste. Without the frame-as-announced, it's a guy swallowing carrot juice. If Jacob says his programming is art, then it's art. Whether it's any good at performing the functions that we often value in art is another matter altogether. Eric D. Dixon - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:27:43 -0800 From: "Aitken, Neil" Subject: RE: [AML] Programming as Art Jacob Proffitt wrote: > I don't denigrate your art, I'd appreciate if you don't denigrate mine. > Software is a bit like architecture. Sure, you use it to do stuff, but it > most definitely is *not* a matter of applying a formula to derive some > hypothetical optimal solution. Programming involves a huge number of > options and variables and situations and trade-offs. Just because it is > easier to copy and a medium you are unfamiliar with doesn't mean it isn't > important or comparable to other art. D. Michael Martindale wrote: > Programming is not art. There are similarities in the intuitive approach > to design between art and programming. Programming can be artistic, but > that doesn't make it art. The two have radically different purposes. I have been quietly following this conversation, but it's probably time for me to chime in. Speaking as a poet, an artist, and also as professional programmer in the games industry, I find that often there is a lot more common in these seemingly disparate worlds than most people are willing to acknowledge. I. Is programming an art? ========================== Looking up "art" yields the following definitions: 1. Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature. 2. a) The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium. b) The study of these activities. c) The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group. 3. High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value. 4. A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature. 5. A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts. 6. a) A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building. b) A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer. 7. a) Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art. b) Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties 8. a) "arts" Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks. b) Artful contrivance; cunning. 9. Printing. Illustrative material. In the senses of #6, #7, and #8, programming can be considered an art -- ie. the cunning application of device and material to create a desired effect. To one well acquainted with coding standards and techniques, there is certainly a pleasing aesthetic and intellectual pleasure derived from seeing a particularly clever, succinct, or inventive way of resolving a problem. Is this "beauty"? Perhaps to another programmer or one acquainted to the rules and restraints of the language used. It's much like the way another painter familiar with the difficulties of watercolor may better appreciate and value a particular watercolor painting than the average viewer of the painting. To one intimate with the material, the beauty and the success of the piece is more readily apparent. II. Programming, Poetry, and the Creative Process ================================================== I once wrote a paper on the similiarities between programming and poetry. Programming, at its heart, is really about creating the complete, compact, universal (reusable), and polished solution that delivers a specific result. One looks at both the big picture and at the minute details, writes functions and creates structures to convey information. Poetry is driven by a need to create a succinct and solid textual image which resonates with the reader and though specific also seems to have universal application. Poets draw on and construct images, phrases, associations, and parallels. They apply a variety of rhetorical devices (consciously or unconsciously) to convey emotion or elicite some response. We use different words to describe the same thing. The poet and programmer both work with a subset of language and proceed to build the most efficient and powerful expression of their idea. Frequently this is a recursive process -- the poet/programmer revisits the text over and over, using the preceding lines to arrive at the next. The poet/programmer revises and revises, debugs/edits the text, tests it with a variety of readers/testers, and alters it where necessary. Both rely heavily on intuitive jumps to overcome tricky problems -- the most artful code often reinvents the language taking it to a new place we did not expect; the most memorable poems do the same. Neil Aitken - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:06:09 -0700 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: Re: [AML] _Ender's Game_ Movie Let me get this straight--if a reader isn't surprised by the end, a book isn't powerful? Since when does a surprise ending = a powerful ending? (As an aside, I highly doubt everyone guessed everything about the end--I'm assuming we're talking about the "game" part.) I wasn't surprised, either, but I was intensely moved by it. Annette Lyon - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:15:31 -0700 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: RE: [AML] Diversity of Mormonism (was: Singles Ward) Thom: I realize that Strugeon's Law holds forth even among Mormon artists, but I've always secretly wished it didn't. Admitting ignorance here--what *is* Strugeon's Law? Annette Lyon - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:35:52 -0700 From: "J. Scott Bronson" Subject: Re: [AML] High School Literature Curriculum On Fri, 16 Aug 2002 13:17:05 -0600 "Eric R. Samuelsen" writes: > What constitutes datedness? What makes one book resonate with > succeeding generations, while another just feels like it came out of > a museum? And why do so many works we liked as young people > just not speak to young people today? Let me tell you about the discipline I inflicted upon my fifteen-year-old son this Summer. I won't go into the details of WHY I did it, but trust me, it was merited. I assigned my son one book a week that had to be read and reported on before he could be let loose upon the world. There were several things I wanted him to learn with this exercise. First, that obfuscation and manipulation of facts in order to cover misdeeds is the same as outright lieing. Second, that there are many ways to read a book. I was trying to get him to use his brain in different ways. When his 9th grade English teacher assigned "To Kill a Mockingbird" (a fabulous read no matter what the Laird thought of it), I was disgusted with the writing assignment that accompanied it. Three pages of fill-in-the-blank worksheets. And draw a map of the town. My son started skimming for the information. I took the assignments away from him and made him read the book through, THEN I let him complete the writing assignment. He liked the book. This is a kid who (great sadness for his parents who read for sustenance) does not like to read. We let him watch the film of "Mockingbird" after he had read it and he spent half the film correcting the differences for us and decided that the book was in fact better than the film. S0, a book a week, with a different kind of writing assignment for each one. The assignment wasn't given until the book was read. Here are the books: Call it Courage A Day No Pigs Would Die The Human Comedy The Owl Papers Moroni Smith in the Land of Zarahemla Weiner Dog Art Johnny Tremain Believing Christ Aesop's Fables Kidnapped The Stainless Steel Rat ************************************** Feb. 19, 2003 As you can see, this post was begun back in August. Sadly, I don't remember the point that I was going to make in connection with Eric's post. I think that I was heading toward the silly way I think that many teachers try to engage students in literature these days. If they are even trying to *engage* them at all. Maybe they're just trying to confuse them. Or impress them. Or maybe they're simply giving them busy work from which they can sift a grade. Anyway, for what it's worth, I think my son's Summer of '02 was better for him than any of the English classes he had in junior high. scott bronson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:27:28 -0700 From: Christopher Bigelow Subject: [AML] League of Utah Writers Workshop Registration is open for the League of Utah Writers Annual Spring Workshop which will be held on Saturday, April 26, 2003, from 9 am to 3 pm in the Emporium of the Coppermill Restaurant, located at 55 North Main in Logan, Utah. Speakers include Ken Brewer (poetry), Ken Rand (From Ideas to Story in 90 Seconds: A Writer's Primer), Chris Cokinos (Nature Writing), Norma Dalton (Critiquing), Dee Justensen (Internet Presence), and John Kistler (Researching). The workshop is free for League members, but pre-registration is required. The cost is $30 for nonmembers. Lunch will be served for a cost of $6. Members must register by April 12, 2003 for free admission. Later registrations will be assessed the $30 fee. Contact Nadene Mattson at 435 -752-1154 or email mattson19@attbi.com or get more information / registration form at www.writerscache.com thanks! Shaunda Wenger Public Relations Chair, LUW Cache Valley Chapter President LUW (435) 753-2692 skwenger@aol.com [Forwarded by Chris Bigelow] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #980 ******************************