From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V1 #996 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, March 14 2003 Volume 01 : Number 996 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:52:27 -0800 From: "Jongiorgi Enos" Subject: [AML] R.M. #s & General Box Office #s Thomas Baggaley reported on R.M.'s numbers, commenting: >"The R.M." brought its total box office gross to $527,847, well over the $500,000 that is its reported production and initial P&A budget. > While I know that you know this, Thomas, your box office reports periodically imply that box office equates to how much the MOVIE ITSELF (the moviemakers, investors, etc.) has made. You and I both know this is not true, but your readers might mistakenly understand this to be the case given the verbal "spin" of your report. As Mark Potter's recent post on the state of LDS Cinema makes clear, nothing could be farther from the truth. In fact, Mark does not even paint as bleak a picture as it really is. He suggests that a distribution fee is about 10% of gross after exhibitor's fees; but the fact is that the industry standard is 35% (studios take 45% and Excel might, maybe, if they love you and they have to, take only 25%). So, the filmmakers themselves only get about 15 to 25% of box office with which to pay off all of their costs and then after that to begin lining their pockets. So, while the people who read the AML list, and who subscribe to your own LDSFilm list probably all know this in the back of their heads, it gets overlooked so often that I think it is important to point out the facts clearly from time to time. The box office amount earned is, in absolutely the best case scenario, about double what the film actually made, and in most cases about four times what the film actually made. If the negative cost and P&A budget were $500,000, the film does not break even until the box office is between 1 and 2 MILLION (depending on the distribution deal). By suggesting that the box office gross of "R.M." is already "well over" the $500,000 cost is simply purveying a financial falsehood which does not report accurately the filmmakers success or the investor's happiness, nor does it give a clear picture of the state of well being of our burgeoning genre. Nothing about the R.M.'s box is "well over" anything. The film is still deeply in debt. If the box office is $527,847 and the exhibitors take 50% and the distributors take 25% and there are no other hidden costs, then the filmmakers have just made about $131,961. If they spent $500,000, they still have $368,038 to go before they break even. So nobody breaths easy until we get to about $2 Million Box. Thankfully, box office is not the only way we make our money back, as we all know. So, when box starts reaching $1.2 to $1.5 million and when soundtrack sales and DVD sales kick in, then the film will be profitable. Halleluiah! I suspect that Halestorm will do well financially in the long run, or at least do well enough to continue making films. But they are not getting rich, and R.M.'s box to date does nothing for those of us desperately trying to raise money to produce others. we have a very long way to go, and frankly, I'm scared. I must agree fully with Mark Potter's observations. Our box office numbers are way too weak to predict the long-term health of LDS Cinema. [Jongiorgi Enos] - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 12:55:45 -0800 From: "Jongiorgi Enos" Subject: Re: [AML] Programming as Art Thomas, Yes, indeed! There is also the literal framing of the disc itself, the jewlbox, the packaging, the fact that there is silence at beginning and end; and then in live performance, the stage and proscenium also apply to music as they do to theatre. Jon - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas C. Baggaley" > Jon, > > Putting in a word for the musicians on the frame discussion, music is > also framed - but the frame is time itself. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 16:09:54 -0800 From: "Jongiorgi Enos" Subject: [AML] Validity of Gender! I understand that I wrongly assumed Kari Heber to be female and = therefore tended to use "she" when commenting on his fascinating topic = string rather than the infinitely more appropriate "HE"! How embarrassing on my part! =20 Sorry Kari! My apologies. Sheepishly yours, Jon Enos - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2003 17:41:05 -0800 From: "Jongiorgi Enos" Subject: [AML] Role of LDS Writers Bill Willson wrote an impassioned essay about the above topic-line = recently, and I basically agree with everything he says. One important = point at issue, however, is the role of the "institutional" church and = its various official and directly related off-shoots, such as BYU and = Deseret, and the "cultural" church, which includes the AML, each of our = various companies and all of the plethora of businesses, schools, = organizations, web-sites, etc., which have no direct or formal = affiliation with the Church. I think there is a necessary distinction = between the two which often gets overlooked. We are fond of quoting various general authorities and their comments = about artists. One category which often gets overlooked, however, is the = concept of "appropriateness" as dwelt upon by Spencer W. Kimball in his = long and famous speech on the topic of LDS arts. While I believe Brother Willson is generally correct in saying that = there is a place for all works which show the eventual redemption from = evil, or the consequences from not being redeemed therefrom, I do not = necessarily think that all of these works need be exposed or promoted by = all venues.=20 For example, while I love rock music, I do not think I want to hear rock = music in sacrament meeting. I don't think I'm wicked to go to a rock = concert, nor do my rock buddies think I'm square (to use the = old-fashioned term) because I got to church on Sundays. When I go to a = rock concert, I do not were my white shirt and tie and stand around with = a long face making my fellow revelers feel like lowlifes. But when I go = to church, I do not wear my rock tee-shirt, jeans and sneakers, either. = There are issue of reverence and appropriateness with time and place. Also, I must respect (from the vantage point of the official church) all = different kinds of tastes. There are active members of the church, good = people, who genuinely think I am wicked to listen to rock. I'm not going = to put my personal choices of what I listen to at home in their face. If = they are not open to it, it is simply not going to come up in = conversation. And so there is a kind of conservitavism that exists in = the official organs of the church, which may have nothing to do with the = gospel, per se, or even any official teachings of the church, per se, = but must exist for the fact that the official church must account for = the needs of all and, frankly, broad exposure to the arts is just not = one of its goals or priorities. So when an organization is directly and officially affiliated with the = church, such as BYU or Deseret Books, a blurry line gets approached. = While it is fine for BYU to teach, perhaps, War and Peace, with its = battle scenes, love scenes, infidelities, murders, passions and = magnificences, it might decide not to display a nude statue. This in no = way states that the church is against or does not promote art of all = kinds or that it does not know the difference between porn and art. But = the church is simply (perhaps) not interested in discussing the = distinction at all, and if anyone might be offended, they pull the plug. Furthermore, Brother Willson suggests that general authorities are = wasting time reviewing books, etc., and from my experience this is = almost never happening. Any kind of official "censoring" is almost = always done by "middle management" officials and General Authorities = almost never make any specific statement whatsoever about anything = commercial or artistic regarding merit or not, except in the broadest of = terms. I may not like Deseret's guildlines, but what is the matter with = allowing them to have them, as long as we have Covenant, Irreanteum, = Sunstone, etc., etc., and any number of other outlets for appropriate, = but perhaps not Officially Sanctioned, works. To each their own. BYU (an = institution I have supported, loved and hated all at the same time!) has = its reasons, but as an official institution, I must allow them certain = restrictions that I might perhaps privately mock, but I don't feel the = need to actively force some kind of sea change therein. I write works which contain elements which I defend as artistically = justified, but I don't attempt to publish them as "Deseret appropriate." = I just look for a different outlet, and trust that my audience will find = me. And while I don't necessarily think Deseret represents the = mainstream of tastes in the church, they just might, and why try and = offend or force-feed something down the throats of those that don't want = it? I'm not hampered as an artist, but I must find my best marketing medium = for any given work. That marketing medium may be MTV, or it may be = Deseret Media! I'm producing both, but I'm not trying to sell my MTV = stuff on Deseret, and vice-versa. The official church does what it does, supports what it feels = appropriate, and those guildlines change. Railing against it is = inefficient, I feel. We simply develop outlets where various artistic = constructs ARE appropriate and market them as such. I think we should = leave the official outlets of the church alone, give them a break, = because, quite frankly, they are leaving us alone and letting us do just = about anything we want in our own venues. The church is not there to = create a standard of art; it has already done so with Article of Faith = 13. The rest is up to us. Jon Enos - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 19:41:24 -0600 From: "Preston Hunter" Subject: [AML] Box Office Report March 3 03 Feature Films by LDS/Mormon Filmmakers and Actors Weekend Box Office Report (U.S. Domestic Box Office Gross) Weekend of March 3, 2003 Report compiled by: LDSFilm.com [If table below doesn't line up properly, try looking at them with a mono-spaced font, such as Courier - Ed.] Natl Film Title Weekend Gross Rank LDS/Mormon Filmmaker/Actor Total Gross Theaters Days - --- ----------------------------- ----------- ----- ---- 18 Final Destination 2 1,034,114 881 38 A.J. Cook (2nd-billed actor) 44,616,117 46 Poolhall Junkies 76,534 119 10 504,507 53 The R.M. 42,547 21 38 Kurt Hale (writer/director) 527,847 John E. Moyer (writer) Dave Hunter (producer) Cody Hale (composer) Ryan Little (cinematographer) Actors: Kirby Heyborne, Will Swenson, Britani Bateman, Tracy Ann Evans Merrill Dodge, Michael Birkeland, Maren Ord, Leroy Te'o, Curt Dousett Wally Joyner, etc. 58 Shackleton's Antarctic Adventure 32,033 9 759 Scott Swofford (producer) 14,138,393 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) Sam Cardon (composer) Stephen L. Johnson (editor) 79 Cirque du Soleil: Journey of Man 9,979 4 1039 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 15,043,783 95 Jack Weyland's Charly 3,173 9 194 Adam Anderegg (director) 783,993 Jack Weyland (book author) Janine Gilbert (screenwriter) Lance Williams (producer) Micah Merrill (producer, film editor) Tip Boxell (co-producer) Bengt Jan Jonsson (cinematographer) Aaron Merrill (composer) Actors: Heather Beers, Jeremy Elliott, Adam Johnson, Jackie Winterrose Fullmer, Diana Dunkley, Gary Neilson, Lisa McCammon, Randy King, Bernie Diamond, etc. 96 Handcart 3,094 1 150 Kels Goodman (director/DP) 91,327 David Greenslaw Sapp (producer) Mark von Bowers (screenwriter) Eric M. Hanson (composer) Actors: Jaelan Petrie, Stephanie Albach Chris Kendrick, Shannon Skinner, Gretchen Condie 98 Galapagos 2,971 5 1228 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 13,957,655 116 China: The Panda Adventure 310 1 591 Reed Smoot (cinematographer) 3,000,805 RASMUSSEN ROCKS PLANET EARTH: Stepping into shoes previously filled by Julie Stoffer (star of MTV's "Real World: New Orleans") and Neleh Dennis (star of CBS' "Survivor: Marquesas"), a 17-year-old Latter-day Saint singing sensation from Bountiful, Utah has come from nowhere to take over the megapopular FOX TV show "American Idol." Carmen Rasmusen, singing a country western song on the "Wildcard" episode of "American Idol," drew scathing comments from surly judge Simon Cowell. Yet it was Simon who picked her from the night's 12 competitors to move onto the next round. This makes Rasmusen one of only twelve finalists (from an original pool of hundreds of thousands of people) left competing in the show, and assures a spot in the show's popular touring show. LDS INVENTOR OF CDs/DVDs PASSES AWAY: A detailed article in the Salt Lake Tribune (http://www.sltrib.com/2003/mar/03072003/utah/35959.asp) notes the passing by heart failure of the 54-year-old inventor of CD/DVD technology which has revolutionized the music and film industry. Robert B. Ingebretsen, a Latter-day Saint and Utah resident, invented the technology that translated analog sound into a digital format -- a discovery that eventually led to the development of compact discs. In 1999 he received an Academy Award for his contributions to the entertainment industry. Funeral services were held March 7th at the LDS Ensign Fourth Ward in Salt Lake City. LaBUTE/ECKHART MOVIE CHOSEN FOR EBERT'S FILMFEST: Neil LaBute's 2nd feature film, "Your Friends and Neighbors," starring fellow BYU grad Aaron Eckhart, is part of the lineup for Roger Ebert's prestigious annual Overlooked Film Festival. Roger Ebert, the nation's most popular film critic, organized the annual festival to draw attention pay tribute to great but under-appreciated films. Of the 14 films at this year's festival, "Your Friends and Neighbors" is the only one directed by a Latter-day Saint. The festival will take place in Ebert's hometown of Champaign, Illinois from April 23-27. The other movies in this year's lineup include: "The Right Stuff" (1983), "Singin' in the Rain" (which features the late Latter-day Saint actress Joi Lansing had a small part), "13 Conversations About One Thing," "Blood and Wine," "Charlotte Sometimes," "L.627," "Medium Cool," "Shall We Dance," "What's Cooking?", the 1932 Japanese silent classic "I Was Born, But..." and "The Black Pirate" (1926). GROBERG'S NAUVOO TEMPLE FILM IS BEING SHOWN ACROSS NATION: Meridian Magazine has published a detailed article about acclaimed Latter-day Saint documentary filmmaker Lee B. Groberg's latest feature-length documentary, "Sacred Stone: Temple on the Mississippi." The article tells how this film, and Groberg's previous Latter-day Saint-themed independent documentaries, have overcome obstacles and ended up being shown acros the country. The full article, with a schedule of PBS stations scheduled to play "Sacred Stone", can be found here: http://www.meridianmagazine.com/arts/030311sacred.html HEIMERDINGER MOVIE NEWS: Popular author of Latter-day Saint Young Adult fiction Chris Heimerdinger (best known for his "Tennis Shoes Among the Nephites" series of books) is now selling a softcover published edition of his screenplay for his planned feature film "Summer of the Nephite" from his official website at http://www.cheimerdinger.com. He is still writing the novelization, which he plans to finish in about six weeks. The first few minutes of the movie have been completed as a short demo reel which the author is showing to investors in order to raise money to film the full movie. If he raises the money needed for the movie's production (about $600,000), he plans to shoot it this summer. DIMMITT HEADS BACK TO THE FUTURE: Latter-day Saint newspaper publisher James L. Dimmitt, publisher of the Chico Enterprise-Record June 1990 through the end of 1998, passed away on February 15th, 2003 at his home. He was 69 and had amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (also known as Lou Gehrig's disease). Dimmitt had published the Enterprise-Record and eight other newspapers owned by the Donrey Media Group. Dimmitt was well known for his collection of vintage cars. His vintage Packards 1941 convertible appeared in the movie "Back to the Future." Dimmitt was a lifelong member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. SMALLVILLE, BY BYU GRADS: A detailed article in the Deseret News (http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,465031249,00.html) describes the contributions that three recent Latter-day Saint BYU film school graduates are making to the popular TV series "Smallville", which features a young Clark Kent before he becomes Superman. Clint Carpenter is the show's script coordinator. He directed the short film "Iscariot" (starring Richard Clifford) while at BYU. His wife, Yvonne Carpenter, works as a writer's assistant for "Smallville." Jake Black was a an intern for the show and writes for the show's official website. 12th ANNUAL UTAH HIGH SCHOOL FILM FESTIVAL: From the Deseret News (10 March 2003): The 12th annual Utah High School Film Festival will be Wednesday, March 19, in the Grand Theater of the Salt Lake Community College South City Campus, 1575 S. State. More than 350 students representing at least 27 schools will are expected. The day begins at 8 a.m. with a keynote address by Leigh von der Esch, director of the Utah Film Commission, followed by workshops. After lunch are screenings and award presentations for winning student filmmakers. For information see www.xmission.com/~jmprince/filmfest or call Sue Tice at 484-4343, Ext. 229. WARD SCREENS NUMBER 9: Latter-day Saint filmmaker Dustin "Spanky" Ward hosted a free screening of his short film "Number 9" at 7 p.m. on Tuesday, March 11th at the new Salt Lake City Library, 400 south 200 east, in the auditorium. After the film was shown, a 10 minute behind-the-scenes documentary was shown. "Number 9," which Ward wrote and directed, competed in the 2002 LDS Film Festival, where it received the Audience Choice Award at the Festival, one of only 3 such awards given in a field of 36 competing films and a larger number of films submitted. The film is described thus: "A young psychology student meets a young man with a phobia of the woods. She convinces him he needs to face his fear and return to the woods." Ward was the first assistant director for the Latter-day Saint-themed feature-length film "Day of Defense" (2003), worked as the locations assistant for the big-budget feature film "The Core" (2003), and has many other film credits to his name. PIGLET EYES THE COMPETITION: The nationwide premier of "Piglet's Big Movie," starring Latter-day Saint actor Ken Sansom as "Rabbit," is just ten days away. Will "Piglet" trounce the competition that week and emerge as the Number 1 film in the country? It has a good chance of doing so. The only other animated feature/kids movie out there right now is the critically lambased sequel "The Jungle Book 2," and that's been playing now for weeks and is completely out of steam. Unfortunately, the kid-oriented "Agent Cody Banks" opens this weekend, and there may be a some overlap, although it's more for the pre-teen and young teen set, and may not draw many of the younger tykes likely to be going to "Piglet." On the plus side, the movies opening in the same weekend as "Piglet" have very little buzz, so they may all be felled by the Little Pink One and his Responsible Yellow Friend. Here's the competition: "Dreamcatcher", based on a Stephen King novel, may be the biggest competition. It stars Morgan Freeman, who is respected but not a huge box office draw. Horror flicks are popular, and King's name is a draw, even though this isn't among his best books. "A View from the Top": Even the trailer is said to stink, but with popular stars Gwyneth Paltrow, Christina Applegate and Kelly Preston, this movie about Paltrow's dreams of becoming a flight attendent might have wings before sinking to the bargain video bins. "Boat Trip": A movie for GLBT couples without kids, I guess. Once promising actor Cuba Gooding Jr. schleps with "Saturday Night Live" star Horatio Sanz as a down-on-their-luck pair of straight men tricked into taking a vacation on an all-gay cruiseliner. IMDb predicts it will "go down as one of the worst Hollywood productions of the year." "Down and Out with the Dolls": Nothing to worry about. Starring people people you've never heard of in a Portland, Oregon story about the rise and fall of an all-girl rock band, this one will be gone faster than you can say "WOW." ****** DESERET BOOK CURRENT TOP SELLING CDs, WEEK OF 9 MARCH 2003: 1. The R.M. Soundtrack 2. The Singles Ward Soundtrack 3. True North by Jericho Road 4. Love Is a Journey: Reflections on Marriage 5. Women of Destiny: Songs Celebrating the Declaration of the Relief Society 6. Jericho Road by Jericho Road 7. Charly Soundtrack 8. Greater Than Us All: 10th Anniversary Edition by Kenneth Cope 9. Twenty-Five Beloved Hymns of Christ on Acoustic Guitar by Michael Dowdle 10. The Ocean in Me by Cherie Call All of the CDs on the Top 10 list are movie soundtrack CDs, or feature music by recording artists with movie credits. The top 2 slots and the #7 slot on Deseret Book's top-selling CDs chart are filled by LDS Cinema soundtrack CDs. Deseret Book-owned boy band Jericho Road shows up in the #3 and #6 slots. Jericho Road makes a cameo appearance as a prison band in the movie "The R.M." Michael Dowdle (whose solo guitar album is at #9) performs the song "St. Angelos" (written by Rodney Strong) on the "Charly" soundtrack CD. Kenneth Cope (whose album is #8 on the chart) sang "Far Longer Than Forever" for the soundtrack to the movie "The Swan Princess: Escape from Castle Mountain" (1997), directed by Richard Rich. Popular Latter-day Saint recording star Cherie Call (whose newest album is at #10) wrote and performed two great songs on the "God's Army" soundtrack CD ("Snow" and Restless Soul"), and she wrote and performed two songs on the "Charly" soundtrack CD ("Restless Soul" and "A Heartbeat Away"). "Love Is a Journey: Reflections on Marriage" (#4 on the chart) features a number of artists: Jenny Frogley, Jericho Road, Jeff McLean, John McVey, Katherine Nelson, Brett Raymond, and Doug Walker. Brett Raymond's music is featured on the "Charly" soundtrack. John McVey's music is featured on the "Out of Step" soundtrack CD. "Women of Destiny" (#5 on the chart), includes music by various artists, including two songs by Gladys Knight, who sang the title song for the James Bond movie "License to Kill" (1989), Michael McLean (who wrote the songs for the FFFF video "Rigoletto" and numerous Church videos, including "What Is Real?", "Our Heavenly Father's Plan", "Together Forever", "The Prodigal Son", "Labor of Love", "Nora's Christmas Gift", and "Mr. Krueger's Christmas." "Women of Destiny" also features music by Tyler Castleton and Stacy Peters, two of the composers for the Church's Winter Olympics Conference Center extravaganza "Light of the World." ****** MOYER TO SPEAK IN UTAH COUNTY: The Utah County chapter of the League of Utah Writers is having the following meeting: John Moyer has been confirmed as guest speaker for the group's meeting on March 26th at 7:00 p.m. in the Provo Library. Moyer is the screenwriter for the popular Latter-day Saint-themed feature films "Singles Ward," and "The R.M.". He will speak about how he began his career and talk about the fundamentals of screenplay writing. ****** BOWMAN AND LITTLE ON DVD: Two hot short films are coming out on a combined DVD from Candlelight Media Group, the same company that publishes the "Treasured Stories of the Golden Rule" and "The Wrong Brother" video. The DVD (also available as a video) contains two great films which are really nothing alike, but they are packaged together under the title "About Brothers." The two films are "Freedom on the Water" and "The Wrong Brother." The DVD features a director's commentary for both films. "Freedom on the Water" (2002) was directed by Ryan Little (director of the Latter-day Saint-themed feature films "Out of Step" and "Saints of War", and cinematographer for the Latter-day Saint-themed feature films "The R.M." and "The Singles Ward"). "Freedom on the Water" garnered Little the "Best American Director" Award at Windsong Film Festival in Indiana for this film. The film stars Lincoln Hoppe, but then, what Ryan Little short film doesn't? Mike Tanner, the star of Martin Patch's short film "4:53," has the 2nd billed role in "Freedom." Chris Bowman's hilarious short film "The Wrong Brother" is also on the DVD, just in time for the 100th Anniversary of the Wright Brothers' historic flight at Kitty Hawk (1903). "The Wrong Brother" won the top awards a the BYU "Final Cut" film festival, and went on to win 1st place at the First International Young LDS Film Festival. It tells the not entirely factual story of young Hector Wright, the lesser known brother of Orville and Wilbur Wright. Chris Kendrick (one of the stars of "Handcart") does a hilarious turn as a Wright Brother. Bryan Summers is wonderful in the title role. Clint Carpenter, script consultant for the WB series "Smallville" (about a young Superman) is the first assistant director. Ryan Little was the producer of "The Wrong Brother." - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 21:46:03 -0800 From: "Jongiorgi Enos" Subject: [AML] Re: Programming as Art Terry Jeffress has sold me. Well reasoned, excellent examples, = satisfying conclusion. Bravo. Jongiorgi Enos - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:40:50 -0500 From: Tony Markham Subject: Re: [AML] Whisperings in the Culture Three or four months ago, I wrote a post that connected the war, Mormonism, and literature, by reference to a graphic novel based on Starship Troopers that featured Mormons in space being eaten by giant bugs because they were unwilling to use violence to defend themselves, and based their behavior on a quotation of Joseph Smith, published verbatim. I was proud of that post because I didn't violate any of the list guidelines and made, I felt, an important point. Yet when it was published, the moderator inserted a heading on it with a strongly expressed personal stand forbidding any list discussion on the war. >From now on, I think I'll sign all my posts "Eric Samuelson," whose distant cousin I am proud to be, so that I can write without being slapped down for no reason. Tony Markham, er, make that Eric Samuelson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:08:20 -0700 From: Steve Perry Subject: Re: [AML] Value of Fairy Tales On Monday, March 10, 2003, at 01:03 PM, Clark Goble wrote: > I agree with what you are getting at. However I think that the literal > contaminates the allegorical more than you admit. Certainly you are right--it's not as clear cut as I stated it, and children aren't usually consciously aware of metaphor. Still, they keep asking for the "Big Bad Wolf," and the Troll under the bridge, etc. I've tried whitewashing a few of these stories for my own kids and they'll have none of it. Maybe they are sociopaths in the making? :-) Steve - -- skperry@mac.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:30:59 -0700 From: Steve Perry Subject: Re: [AML] Whisperings in the Culture On Monday, March 10, 2003, at 05:14 PM, Eric R. Samuelsen wrote: > I got a long email from a friend, full of capitalized words and=20 > exclamation points, desperately asking if I had any cogent arguments,=20= > any, against the war, which her gut told her was wrong, but she could=20= > find nothing, not a single article anywhere, making a rational,=20 > informed argument against it. Nothing but propoganda, anywhere. For a Mo-Lit tie-in, how about a quick rereading of Captain Moroni's=20 words on the Title of Liberty? "And it came to pass that he rent his coat; and he took a=20 piece thereof, and wrote upon it=97 In memory of our God, our religion, and freedom,=20= and our peace, our wives, and our children=97and he fastened it upon the end of = a=20 pole. IMHO Al Qaeda has trespassed against this in a big way, but neither the=20= government nor the people of Iraq have come even close where the US is=20= concerned. If we were actually attacked, well, that might be a horse=20= of a different color. As cultural comment, I think Eric brought up an interesting point. =20 Since as LDS folks we try to stay apolitical at church it can seem that=20= either A) no one cares about politics or B) that everyone must think=20 the same way _we_ do, since _we_ are obviously right. Also, for the record, I'm still eating French Fries and Brie, but not,=20= of course, at the same time. Steve - -- skperry@mac.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 08:21:09 -0800 From: "Susan Malmrose" Subject: Re: [AML] Whisperings in the Culture << The overwhelming conservative bias of the national media, the absolute impossibility of a liberal voice being heard, has led to the absurdity of celebrities protesting on talk shows, because they're the only liberals who can get booked on those shows. (The idea of a 'liberal bias' in the media is so preposterous, it barely deserves acknowledgement, and yet it's a surprisingly pervasive myth.) >> A web board I frequent recently had a discussion about whether the media is more liberal or more conservative. I think the consensus reached was that those who are more liberal than the media think it's slanted conservative, and those more conservative than the media think it's slanted liberal. It's all relative. I think one of the biggest problems we have (and I don't mean "we" as in the church members, but "we" as in everyone) in political discussions is that too many see things as sheer black and white, when it's much more complicated than that. << So we have two realities. What people are really thinking and feeling, which we only find out in whispers. And the party line, the official line, which only feels official because it gets spoken with some force. It's Culture-Voice, which says rock music is evil, and so are R rated movies, and voting Democratic, and women working, and Not Supporting The President. And then, whispers, saying 'but what if that doesn't work for me?' >> Call me lame, but I really don't care very much about that. Maybe cuz I'm so far outside the culture--I frequently go to bars to see rock bands play, I work fulltime, I rarely hang out with church members outside of church--but I don't watch rated R movies--whatever, I don't expect to fit in. It *doesn't* work for me--so what? :) Susan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 05:44:26 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Programming as Art jeffress@xmission.com wrote: > I think any argument aimed at proving "X is not art" will ultimatey be > refuted by "Well, maybe X isn't art to you, but there's a group of people > that think it is art, so it must have some artistic value." I don't think > it's possible to name a thing that doesn't ultimately have some artistic > value in someone's eyes. > I think all this really does is refute the possibility of a universal > definition of art, which was probably a given in the first place. No, what it does is dilute the very concept of art into meaninglessness. You are saying that everything is art. That means nothing is art, because art becomes a meaningless concept. Most certainly you can stretch the frame definition of art to include everything. That's why I think the frame definition is incomplete. That's why I add the requirement that the artist intends to display the framed art for an audience. Not that it actually has to be displayed, but that the intent to display it, somewhere someday, exists--or at least the wish to display it if the artist only had the courage to do so. (This makes the definition include those who claim their art is only for themselves, which I consider a cover-up for lack of courage. Can you imagine anyone creating a work of art and not enjoying having someone see it and express positive feedback about it? They're just afraid the feedback will be otherwise.) Yes, you can stretch the frame definition to include everything, but you can do that with any definition. You can stretch any concept a human being thinks up beyond the point of uselfuness. A definition of art that says "Art is everything" is useless. Just because we have a hard time agreeing on where the boundaries of art are does not mean we should give up and declare there are no boundaries. Otherwise we should be discussing the aesthetic characteristics of cooking Cream of Wheat. It's framed by the pot, after all, and it takes a certain amount of cooking skill to avoid lumpy or burnt cereal. You should have seen the last batch I made. It was smooth as silk--a work of art! Things can be artistically created, but unless the artist intends or wishes it could be displayed as art, it ain't art. I stand by that definition. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2003 05:49:02 -0700 From: "D. Michael Martindale" Subject: Re: [AML] Little Mermaid Clark Goble wrote: > Count me as one who decries the de-sexualizing of the human form as just > as perniciously dangerous as pushing the sexualized form in all of our > media. (Not to mention rather unbelievable) To me they are simply two > sides of the same phenomena. It's your extreme, not mine. I didn't suggest desexualizing human bodies. I'm suggesting combatting the intense brainwashing our society gives us that keeps us from ever viewing human bodies as anything but sexual. > To me the underlying cause is the loss of > the sacred. Being conditioned so that you can't even view a human body without sexual thoughts intruding is loss of the sacred. - -- D. Michael Martindale dmichael@wwno.com ================================== Check out Worldsmiths, the new online LDS writers group, at http://www.wwno.com/worldsmiths Sponsored by Worlds Without Number http://www.wwno.com ================================== - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:54:49 -0800 From: Robert Slaven Subject: Re: [AML] Michael WILCOX, _Who Shall Be Able To Stand?_ (Review) > Title: Who Shall Be Able To Stand? > Author: S. Michael Wilcox > Reviewed by Jeffrey Needle > class thought about the book. One fellow, an imigrant from England, > suggested that John had been smoking hashish while writing the book. I > doubted this was the case, but, given the wild visions, the animals and > fires and trumpets, I couldn't blame him for thinking so! > Yes, I know Hunter S. Thompson is a reprobate, and no, I don't agree at all with his hedonistic worldview. However, it is impossible to ignore him, when you consider crunchy grains like this that can be found after winnowing away his chaff: That is when I start bouncing around the room and ripping drawers out of the nightstands and bed-boxes and those flimsy little desks with bent green blotters that they provide for traveling salesmen -- looking for a Gideon Bible, which I know will be there somewhere, and with any luck at all it will be a King James Version, and the Book of Revelation will be intact at the end. - Hunter S. Thompson, Generation of Swine \ If there is a God, I want to thank Him for the Gideons, whoever they are. I have dealt with some of His other messengers and found them utterly useless. But not the Gideons. They have saved me many times, when nobody else could do anything but mutter about calling Security on me unless I turned out my lights and went to sleep like all the others.... - Hunter S. Thompson, Generation of Swine \ I have stolen more quotes and thoughts and purely elegant little starbursts of *writing* from the Book of Revelation than anything else in the English language -- and it is not because I am a biblical scholar, or because of any religious faith, but because I love the wild power of the language and the purity of the madness that governs it and makes it music. - Hunter S. Thompson, Generation of Swine \ I wanted to have another look at the Book of Revelation. Which is a serious piece of work, a thunderhead mix of Bolero, Sam Coleridge and the ravings of Cato the Elder. I was awed, once again, by the fearful intensity of the language...and also by the idea that this, the genuinely hideous Revelation of "St. John the Divine," is generally assumed...to be the long-range personal blueprint [for] Ronald Reagan.... - Hunter S. Thompson, Generation of Swine \ There is language -- in the King James Version, at least -- that will peel the skin off your back. There was no Miranda Rule, back then; *everybody* was guilty, and punishment was swift and terrible. - Hunter S. Thompson, Generation of Swine, on the Book of Revelation \ Just thought y'all might appreciate this different take on Revelation. Robert - -- Robert & Linn-Marie Slaven www.robertslaven.ca ...with Stuart, Rebecca, Mariann, Kristina, Elizabeth, and Robin too You see, it's just that his brain is so tiny that the slightest movement can dislodge it. - Monty Python's Flying Circus - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 2003/02/25 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V1 #996 ******************************