From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V2 #127 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Thursday, August 21 2003 Volume 02 : Number 127 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 18:09:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "R.W. Rasband" Subject: [AML] KRAKAUER, _Under The Banner of Heaven_ Reviews On its web site the church has posted some links to negative reviews of "Under The Banner of Heaven" from places like "The Economist", "The Wall Street Journal", "The Boston Globe" and "Pop Matters." It's an interesting selection. It's also interesting that the church would go to the trouble of rounding up these reviews. I don't think the institution has paid this kind of attention to a single book since "No Man Knows My History." http://www.lds.org/newsroom/showpackage/0,15367,3881-1---3-748,00.html ===== R.W. Rasband Heber City, UT rrasband@yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:14:13 -0600 From: Morgan B. Adair Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks >>> Tammy Daybell 8/18/2003 9:49:04 AM >>> >>From the transcript of the 60 minutes interview with President Hinckley: > >Mike Wallace: No alcohol, no tobacco, no coffee, no tea, not even >caffeinated soft drinks... > >Gordon B Hinckley: Right. What's missing from the transcript is the brief pause between Larry's = question and Pres. Hinckley's response, just long enough for Pres. = Hinckley to ask himself, "do I want to go there?"=20 BYU doesn't sell drinks with caffeine, but no one has ever told the = students (or professors) not to drink them, as many do every day. BYU is = an alternate universe, with it's own laws that don't necessarily apply = anywhere else, not even the temple (you can wear a beard and serve as a = veil worker in the temple, but not as a BYU professor). MBA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 20:53:55 -0700 From: "John Dewey Remy" Subject: RE: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks During my short stint at the COB, it was common to see Church employees with well-worn, large, refillable cups crossing the street to the the ZCMI food court or to the little corner convenience store in the Gateway Apartment building (where Pres. Hinckley, Pres. Faust and Jana's great-aunt Madge live). While I begrudge no man or woman their daily morming stimulants, I think it ironic that those huge mugs, if filled with Pepsi or Coke, could hold the same amount of caffeine as two medium-sized cups of coffee (perhaps one shot of espresso?). The potential sugar content is pretty scary, too. Mormons are so quirky. You gotta love 'em. ;^) Literary tie-in: Hmmm....perhaps pointing out that the Church's "offend as few people as possible route" fits its official attitudes towards: the sale of caffeinated beverages in institutions overtly associated with the Church (I'm assuming one can buy Word of Wisdom violating beverages in the Church-owned Crossroads Plaza); the sale of potentially offensive books in Deseret Book stores; and the publishing of faith-offending, doubt-promoting literature and Church history scholarship? John Remy UC Irvine > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-aml-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Thom Duncan > Sent: Monday, August 18, 2003 10:25 AM > To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks > > > > --- Original Message --- > >If it is a myth, then why doesn't BYU sell caffeinated > >drinks? > > BYU prefers to err on the side of ultra-orthodoxy. > This way, they get fewer phone calls from concerned > parents about the University, since it is the Lord's > University, facilitating "sin" in its children. > > The Church Offic Building is the same way. You can't > find a decent Diet Coke anywhere in the building. > Again, they are taking the ultra0conservative, offend > as few people as possible route. > > Let's remember that, in a recent interview with Larry > King, President Hinkeley replied in the afirmative > when King asked him if Mormons refrained from caffeine > drinks. I suspect it would be very difficult after > that answer (off-handed as it was) to sell coke > products at BYU or the Church. > > In reality, you can drink diet coke all you want and > never have to worry about losing a Temole Recommend, > so the standards are a little looser in the rank and > file church. > > Thom Duncan > > > -- > Thom Duncan > > > > > > -- > AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature > > - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 23:24:28 -0700 From: "Kathy Tyner" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Indeed, General Authorities do admit to making mistakes. But WHEN, WHERE and HOW makes a big difference. Elder Bruce R. McConkie was magnanimous in saying the he was wrong regarding Blacks and the Priesthood, and to forget what he said, or anyone one else said, other than Pres. Kimball. The problem is that our critics and enemies are not going to forget, and that for how many years did his assertions hold forth as doctrine and were expounded on by authors in the Church justifying them for a mulititude of reasons with some scripture mingled with tortured logic thrown in with some long held traditions that had been held by the angelo world for centuries. And we have been a Church that prides itself on breaking with "gentile" traditions. There were a lot of church members who used this as an excuse to mistreat any minorities, especially Blacks, by denying them work, paying lower wages than whites or cheating them, being able to eat in restaurants, use public restrooms, or find decent accomodations to stay the night should they be passing through Utah. I've read one account of a Black woman who saved for years to be able to come to Salt Lake to hear, "the world's greatest choir", and was refused admitance at the door of the Tabernacle. She was the decent person and asked the man if he could just leave the door open so she could listen and he did. Her children knew the story and years later one of them happened to be at an educational meeting in SLC and happened to mention the story and was invited and did go to see and hear the choir. I know that this type of thing went on all over the United States, but it pains me that it should've happened among the Saints who could've been the shining light on the hill and set the example. And I know there are personal stories of Saints who were, and their stories need to be told more often. Occasionally, the Brethren have to follow-up on something to clarify what was actually said and what it completely meant. At Gen.Conf last year, one of the GAs basically sounded like he guaranteed parents that no matter how much your kids screw up, even as adults, they will be returned to you in the eternities because of the sealing power of either being born in the covenant or being sealed as a family. To some of us, who are converts and still have parents living, that kind of hurt. I asked my husband, "Let me get this straight, your sister who has been inactive for years and has made some really sucky choices in life gets to go to the Celestial Kingdom because she is sealed to your parents? And because of your mom's faithfulness?" What happened to the doctrine of agency and personal accountability? I supposed someone like myself who is not sealed to a parent would be out of luck if they didn't live a righteous life.(And boy, was I worried). ;-) In April's conference, the message was clarified. That they may still belong to the parents is true, but if they have not lived an exmplary life, they will not inherit all that Christ has, period. Bits of this doctrine has floated around for years and I'm glad it didn't take close to a century to clear it up for all of us. Another phenomenon that happens that probably drives the Brethren nuts, is having someithing attributed to one of them, usually a Prophet or Apostle, and they go nuts trying to correct the story or quote attributed to them that they never said! Or something being quoted out of context, entirely changing the meaning. We've all heard someone say in Sunday School, "Well I've heard that the Prophet or Elder So-and-So said......I have a friend who would ask, "Do you have a source for that?" Usually followed by the quoter having a deer-in-the-headlights look and some sputtering. Some of these evolve into folk doctrines that are sometimes taught, as D. Mike mentioned, by local authorities even though they might be nothing more than an opinion expressed in answer to a question at a small leadership meeting and were never meant to expressed as a doctrine or practice. I think Pres. Hinckley has done a good job dealing with this and putting to rest a number of "commandments" that exist among us. When my son was still small I was feeling the pressure to have another one soon when I attended the broadcast of the Women's Conf. and he plainly spoke that although we do covenant to have children, when and how many is between the couple and the Lord. And he made a great many remarks about how a couple should be partners, about how they should treat one another, especially how the husband should treat the wife. I lived off of that talk for a long time feeling that there was a man who got what women want. It eventually was published as the pamphlet, "The Four Cornerstones of a Happy Home." And I want to express that I have so much love and admiration for Pres. Hinckley not just as a Prophet, but as a man. It is obvious that he likes women. Not in the earthy sense of things, but that he likes us as people. Respects us as a gender and for who we are as individuals. He is comfortable is the presence of women and not intimidated or put off by smart women. He likes intelligent women. Think what a rare quality that is in a man in his nineties. Incredible. When he had addresses the Women or the Young Women, he chooses his words carefully, but he chooses plain prose, easy to be understood. Especially giving something a title like, "How to Become the Woman that You Dream of." My daughter adores him too, and does listen to what he has to say even if she grouses about the "ear piercing thing." She hopes to be able to get the chance to meet him, gush all over him, and hug him some day soon. Gee, that felt like a testimony. Amen. Kathy Tyner Orange County, CA - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:42:32 -0500 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: RE: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith Why not Denzel? I just heard they're making a movie of The Honeymooners with Cedric the Entertainer in the Jackie Gleason role. Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:57:11 EDT From: JanaRiess@aol.com Subject: [AML] Re: Caffeinated Drinks In a message dated 8/19/03 11:20:30 PM, owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: >My guess is it's just marketing. So many Mormons buy into the myth that >we >shouldn't drink caffeinated drinks that BYU doesn't want to offend its >core >base of consumers. They sell plenty of varieties of chocolate, including >in >the form of a hot drink -- all of which are certainly caffeinated. Yes, I was in the BYU Bookstore last week and was amazed to see the enormous counter where one could buy every variety of chocolate under the sun. (Not that I complaineth . . . ) Jana R. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:59:25 -0500 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders - --- Original Message --- From: "D. Michael Martindale" To: aml-list@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders >Matthew Lee wrote: > >> I must be missing something. When did General >> Authorities stop acknowledging that they make >> mistakes? I'm confident that if any General Authority >> were asked if he made mistakes he would respond with >> "Yes". > >Well, the recent statement of "We cannot lead you astray. It's >imposisble," comes to mind. > >But the real problem is not General Autorities not admitting they make >mistakes. It's the lower-tiered authorities who are not internalizing >that concept, and start using statements by General Authorities as if >those statements were from God himself. I just experienced this >phenomenon last Sunday from my bishop. That indeed is THE problem. I can't remember the exact quote but Elder Holland made a talk in which he said that young men shouldn't be required to wear white shirts while passing the Sacrament. The following week, our local leaders were preaching that the young men should all start wearing white shirts. It was amazing how this leap from moderate to mandate took only a week. I find this amazing from an organization behavior point of view. The General Authorties, preaching "generally" are often interpreted much more specifically locally. Tying this back into a literary context. Scott Bronson and Ronn! will remember a problem we once had while writing training scripts for the MTC. The middle manager between us and Elder Packard was setting up walls for something we wanted to do. Our producer was a degreed Instructional Designer so kinda knew the ropes. Our producer managed to get an interview with Elder Packard who, once apprised of our game plan, gave it the green light. His words: "You guys are the professionals. I trust you to make the right decision." - -- Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 09:17:20 -0600 From: Margaret Young Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders Since I've spent the past five years studying the race issue and its history in the Church, I have become intimately acquainted with terrible statements spoken over the pulpit and elsewhere from the time of Brigham Young onward, statements which are STILL WITH US in the form of folklore. I have wondered about the assurance which I hear quoted all the time: "The Lord will never allow his prophet to lead the Church astray. The prophet would be removed before God would let that happen." I don't have the wording exactly right, but that's the gist, spoken by Wilford Woodruff. I simply don't believe it. I believe there has to be some room for agency and conscience in the mind of the hearer, that we are not required to surrender our minds to someone else. I keep hearing that obedience is the first law of Heaven, but the scriptures show the Savior obeying his own conscience rather than the earthly, phariseical laws time and time again. He follows the law of compassion consistently (even when compassion comes in the form of a lash.) His example suggests to me that I should not be too hasty in accepting something which feels wrong to my heart. If a Church leader tells me that my black brothers and sisters are descendants of Cain, cursed to come through the flood and represent Satan through the lineage of Canaan (and I am paraphrasing John Taylor here), I have every right to reject that idea as contrary to the essential messages of the scriptures. I have asked my husband how he feels about President Woodruff's quote, how he can square the overtly racist things said by past prophets which allowed Latter-day Saints to justify their racism (which was a national epidemic, not confined to Mormonism)--which, to me, is perhaps among the most serious sorts of straying we can do, because it violates the essential element of Christianity: charity. If anyone feels justified in regarding other races as "less than" or somehow cursed or of lesser valiance (and I heard that one two weeks ago in Sunday school class), they have been led astray. Bruce said he understood the statement as referring to large movements, given in the context of the manifesto--that the Saints didn't need to fear that the prophet was leading them astray by abandoning polygamy. But every time I hear some of the racist folklore, I am sorely tempted to stand up and say, "By the way, that came from Parley Pratt, not God. Brother Parley was living in a society that accepted racism as a natural, even desireable condition and slavery as acceptable. He was working with LIMITED LIGHT AND KNOWLEDGE. We now have further light and knowledge." When the false doctrine was spouted in that Sunday school class, I quoted Bruce R. McConkie's "I was wrong" speech. But I was summarily rebuked by the self-appointed authority on all things in our Sunday school class--a sweet old guy who often stands to make his comments and closes them in the name of Jesus Christ. He read Abraham 3:27--about great and noble spirits being chosen before the world was and then said that we needed to pray about this issue and we would all get the same answer, because truth does not vary. Was I just imagining that he was implying that indeed there were "less valiant" ones in the pre-existance? Hmmm. I wonder how many people have really looked at that verse and what follows it. In the chronology of the war in heaven, that particular council is held BEFORE Jehovah says, "Send me." ________________ Margaret Young 1027 JKHB English Department Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602-6280 Tel: 801-422-4705 Fax: 801-422-0221 - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:25:18 -0600 From: jeffress@xmission.com Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks [MOD: Thanks to Terry for adding some information and facts to the discussion of this point.] Quoting "Eric D. Dixon" : > [BYU] sell[s] plenty of varieties of chocolate, including > in the form of a hot drink -- all of which are certainly caffeinated. Just to set the record straight . . . Undisputedly, coffee contains caffeine (C8 H10 N4 O2 or 3,7-Dihydro-1,3,7- trimethyl-1H-purine-2,6-dione). Chocolate contains theobromine (C7 H8 N4 O2 or 3,7-Dimethyl-Zanthine,2,6- Dihydroxy-3,7-Dimethyl-Purine), which although structurally similar to caffine produces 1/10th the stimulating effect in the human metabolism [11]. Raw cocoa contains 1.5-3.0% theobromine. Depending on the researcher, chocolate contains 0.2-0.4% caffeine or none at all [1, 3]. But no one eats raw cocoa; you dilute it with sugar and other components. In commercial milk chocolate, this concentration gets diluted down to about 0.2% theomrobine and 0.03% caffeine. So in a 1oz (28g) Hershey Chocolate bar, you get about 56mg theobromine and 6mg caffeine [5, 6]. (As compared to the 46mg in 12oz Coke, 70mg in 8oz tea, and 100-150mg in 8oz coffee.) A 6mg dose of caffeine is similar to the amount found in a cup of decaffeinated coffee. Research shows that at this level, there is not an increase in metabolic performance or blood pressure [7, 8, 9]. To reach a physical dependence (occurring at 350mg caffeine per day), you would have to consume 58.3oz (3.6lb) of Hershey's chocolate each day [10], of course in the abscence of other caffeine-containing products. Caffeine levels in chocolate also do not affect brain function. For most research purposes, scientists consider 100mg of caffeine a low dose, and even at this level "caffeine did not affect short-term memory span or speed, long-term memory retrieval functions or focussed attention" [13]. If anything, the phenylethlyamine and anandamide in chocolate casuses more of the "high" or "addictin" effects than the caffeine or theobromine. Phenylethlyamine produces amphetamine-like effects, and anadamide has a similar structure to the THC in marijuana and produces similar metabolic reactions. Just in case you do regularly do consume caffeine, you can set your worries aside. Studies on caffeine consumption in mice show no adverse effects in fertility or reproduction [14]. Also, at regular doses, caffeine did not cause an increase in the rate of cancer, and in fact, helped reduce the incidence of cancer in the presence of other known carcinogens [15]. Although at high doses, researchers linked caffeine to testicular atrophy [15]. - -- Terry Jeffress Resources: [1] http://www.mrkland.com/fun/xocoatl/science.htm [2] http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/chocolate/theobromine.html [3] http://www.mrkland.com/fun/xocoatl/caffeine.htm [4] http://coffeefaq.com/caffaq.html [5] http://www.hersheys.com/nutrition_consumer/caffeine.shtml [6] http://www.hersheys.com/nutrition_consumer/theobromine.shtml [7] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7485480&dopt=Abstract [8] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=79072203 [9] http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jan99/915293960.Me.r.html [10] http://www.xs4all.nl/~4david/caffeine.html [11] http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/chocolate/theoJF.html [12] http://www.priory.com/pharmol/caffeine.htm [13] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi? cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12917744&dopt=Abstract [14] http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/htdocs/RT-studies/RACB84044.html [15] http://monographs.iarc.fr/htdocs/monographs/vol51/04-caffeine.htm - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:35:41 -0600 From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tammy Daybell" > >From the transcript of the 60 minutes interview with President Hinckley: > > Mike Wallace: No alcohol, no tobacco, no coffee, no tea, not even > caffeinated soft drinks... > > Gordon B Hinckley: Right. ____________________________________ >From Solemn Assembly - Spencer W. Kimball - Question from Audience of Regional Stake and Ward leaders assembled at the Oakland Inter-stake Center in 1980's: Does the Word of Wisdom prohibit the use of Coca-Cola and Pepsi? S.W.K.: "No, it only prohibits alcohol, tobacco, and hot drinks, meaning coffee and tea. However, those of you who are working with the youth, should set a good example and refrain from these drinks while in their presence." Perhaps President Hinckley has received more recent revelation about this matter. I think that as we incorporate this kind of dialogue into our writing it should be shown by the rhetoric of our articles, or the actions and responses of our characters, that the choices concerning `The Word of Wisdom,' are up to the individual and by making those choices we accept the responsibility and consequences for our choices. After all, isn't this the whole purpose and result of `The War in Heaven'? Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 11:58:31 -0600 From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Error among Leaders - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clark Goble" >> ___ Matthew ___ >> | But please help me understand where this idea of >> | errorless General Authorities is coming from. >> ___ > > Keeping this in terms of *literature* and not formal theology, I think > that clearly this idea arose because of the issue of obedience. When > people hear that one is to obey, then it is very easy to misinterpret > this as "it is correct." Of course it doesn't follow that obedience > always entails there being no error. > > I suspect that in large part this comes from Wilford Woodruff's famous > statement about not leading people astray. But once again it doesn't > follow that not leading astray is the same as having no mistakes. ______________________________________ The famous W.W. statement is probably correct at least for the most part. If a GA errs, it is usually on the safe side of correct choices. IE - President Hinckley's statement on the Mike Wallace 60 minute program, certainly couldn't lead anyone astray. It might mislead them to think G.B.H. was saying that if you drink Coca-Cola or Pepsi, you will surely go to hell. So it isn't necessarily the errors of the GA's we need to be worrying about, it's the misinterpretations and errors of the rank and file that get us into trouble. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:16:29 -0600 From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cathy Wilson" > There's the funniest reference to Mormonism in the new film SWAT. > > The protagonist brings in a couple of Dr Peppers (product placement) and the older agent says, > "Don't tell my wife I'm swilling this stuff," or something like that. "When we got married, I > converted to Mormonism and we're not to take anything into our bodies that would alter our > thinking or anything. We're supposed to keep our bodies clean." > > and later > > The protagonist comes into the office and there's the Mormon guy eating McDonalds, including > some more Dr Pepper. The guy says, "You're eating and drinking hellfire and damnation to your > soul," or something like that. And the Mormon guy responds, "Just don't tell my wife." > > Very cute. __________________________________ I agree that dialogue is funny, but it can be damaging too. This is a good example of the rank and file's misinterpretation of the guidance from our GA's in favor of safe choices, and spreading of false doctrine based on correct principles taught by our leaders. (see earlier post on ...errors among leaders). I'm sure the writer was trying to either spread some doctrine, or else deliberately vilify the intolerance of church doctrine, either way, it is incorrect and damaging to the church's public image. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 15:29:12 -0500 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: [AML] Call for Volunteers: Nauvoo Theatrical Society As some of you know, the Nauvoo Theatrical Society stopped production at the Center Street Theatre several months ago. The company that took over our space is now leaving the facility. So our platforms and lights are still there and have to be removed. This Saturday, Scott Bronson, Paul Duerden, Erick and I will be there to move pull the platforms apart and move them to a nearby storage unit. Many of you came by and helped us when we were moving in. If you would like to help us move out, please join us from 10 am this coming Saturday. 50 West Center Street. We should be able to get the stuff taken apart and in the truck in a couple of hours. To anyone who happens to be there at the right time, we'll also have pizza for all the hard workers. Any questions, feel free to call me at 735-6586, or respond privately to this email message (ThomDuncan@prodigy.net). Thanks to our loyal fans. - -- Thom Duncan - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 14:43:09 -0500 From: "Thom Duncan" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT Methinks thou doth protest too much. This is in no way damaging to the church's images. What it DOES do is make the Mormon people appear more human, which can never be a bad thing. "Yes, World, it is true. We don't all avoid drinking Diet Coke. Some of us don't pay a full tithing all the time. Sometimes we, like you, fail in our family responsibilities. We are just like you. Normal in every way." Thom - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V2 #127 ******************************