From: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (aml-list-digest) To: aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: aml-list-digest V2 #137 Reply-To: aml-list Sender: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-aml-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk aml-list-digest Friday, August 29 2003 Volume 02 : Number 137 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:30:05 -0600 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] (SL Trib) Snider firing Kathy Tyner: > >And if Eric Snider wasn't the original tipster, but the one who was, also >worked for The Herald, why wasn't he canned too? Seems they were >looking for an excuse to get rid of Eric Snider and unfortunately, he gave >them an opportunity to do so. Happy Valley's loss, imho. To clarify, I knew of the other Herald employee's (my friend's) communication with Samuel French; it was my understanding they knew about it before EITHER of us contacted them. Their later assertion that they were acting on information from Neil Simon's lawyer solidified that, for neither the other employee nor I had talked to Neil Simon's lawyer; if they were acting on information from him, he had gotten it from someone other than us. He wasn't fired, by the way, because he didn't write the subsequent news story about it. Also, he's new, just learning the ropes, etc. It wouldn't have been fair to fire him. (Well, it wasn't fair to fire me, either, but it would have been even less fair for him.) Eric D. Snider - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:35:33 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: Re: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) At 12:45 PM 8/22/03 -0700, you wrote: >I have heard the postulation that >anything a General Authority or Leader of the Church says over the >pulpit or in the Ensign is basically infallible or should be considered >doctrine. Probably the strongest thing that drew me to the Church was that the missionaries said, "Don't believe this because we say so. Pray about it and you'll get an answer." I've also been taught to listen prayerfully to the conference talks. There have been many, many times when I have felt the Spirit witness to me the truth of something I was hearing. There has also been at least one time when I leaped to my feet in outrage and said, "That is not right!" (The feminists on the list will be able to identify the talk to which I refer.) Something has to feel right to me for me to accept it. It must be verified by the Spirit, or at least not feel dark. Polygamy feels dark. The prohibition against blacks holding the priesthood felt dark when I investigated the Church, but when I prayed about it I was told that it would be made right. All this brings up something I've been thinking about in terms of fiction writing in the LDS venue--just how much of spirituality is right brain activity and how much left brain? I come to more aha's through intuition than through logic. (Don't say it, Thom.) barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:23:06 -0600 From: Barbara Hume Subject: [AML] Fears (was: Perceptions of Error among Leaders) At 09:48 AM 8/23/03 -0600, you wrote: >. I think most people >operate at least partially on a basis of fear. I think most people operate almost entirely on the basis of fear. That's why we constantly sabotage ourselves. We're pretty much unconscious about our real selves because we're too involved with the layers of defense we've built up to protect ourselves from whatever we're afraid of. I was thinking just yesterday about this concept relates to fiction writing. How many characters create conflicts because they are responding to all that programming they've done on themselves over the years? Characters, like real people, operate according to these built-up defenses: "Don't trust anybody." "Men want only one thing." "Women are users." "Don't let anyone know how you really feel." "Don't look too smart." "Don't rock the boat." "If you drink that Coke or wear that blue shirt to church, someone might think you're unrighteous." "We're all going to die!!!!" barbara hume - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:05:34 -0600 From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: [AML] Fiddler on the Roof Performance AML members have no doubt noticed a gaggle of Fiddler on the Roof = performances in the area and some have been posted on the list. Having = seen several of the shows, I can unashamedly recommend yet another = version for your enjoyment by the Draper Arts Council. Richard Alsop = (former Pres. of Bonneville Communications, idea man who started the = Home Front Series and former mayor of Draper) is playing Tevye. What a = voice this man has and the acting ability to go with it. "Not every = woman in the world is a Yente," but I am blessed to play her for a = season. What a joy. We open Sept. 11,12,13,15,19,20. Additional dates = may be added. Held at Draper City Hall Auditorium (12441 South 900 = East). Showtime 7:30. Tickets available at Draper Albertsons or = contact me at 801/523-0412. Nan McCulloch - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 16:14:59 -0600 From: "Annette Lyon" Subject: RE: [AML] Perceptions of Errors (clarified) I have read this thread with interest, both agreeing and disagreeing with several posts--sometimes both within a single post. I have yet to find a discussion of just HOW we're supposed to know when we are hearing the word of God. I know how I answer the question for myself, but I'm putting it out anyway. For the record, I don't believe our leaders are infallible. Far from it. But there have been plenty of times in Church history when members have had to go on nothing but faith in following the prophet--and God. And there have to be occasions where the prophet actually speaks as a prophet (I feel silly even writing such a statement. Shouldn't that be obvious?) If something as dramatic as the Manifesto were given today, how many of us would think, "Hmm. Not inspired this time," and move on? Annette Lyon - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 15:32:28 -0700 From: "jana" Subject: Re: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside I've been recently called as my Stake's "Media Liason", which is an arm of the Stake Public Relations Dept. At a PR meeting last night each ward PR Rep was handed copies of the BOM movie posters for their foyers and were encouraged to have ward FHE outings to attend the movie so we could boost its attendance in So. Cal and keep it in the theaters longer. I already don't want to watch it--Instead I'll spend my movie dollars (few as they may be) at the 'art house' near UCI to watch a probably not PG-rated foreign film. - --Jana Remy, UC Irvine - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:00:35 -0600 From: "Bill Willson" Subject: [AML] Types of Heroes (was: Mormon Reference in SWAT) [MOD: Sorry I didn't rename this portion of the thread several messages ago.] - ----- Original Message ----- From: > Quoting Bill Willson : >>What I object to is writers who, in an effort to show >>human fallibility, make their characters seem > > like unthinking Cretan-like Neanderthals or a cross >>between Homer Simpson and Archie Bunker. > > I would have to say that the world contains a whole lot more Archie Bunkers > than Gordon B. Hinkleys, so in creating a landscape for a novel, it makes > more sense to populate the novel with a representative proportion of the > population. But in either case, extremes generally don't work as well as > just characters made of regular people. Exactly! I agree 100%. Just regular people dealing with all the regular problems of regular realistic life, trying to figure it out and survive. Maybe we need a deus ex machina ending in a Greek tragedy, but I think in our modern literary work we need more tenacity, sweat, faith and raw courage. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:48:01 -0600 From: Clark Goble Subject: Re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers ___ Tom ___ | I've been looking for a reference for an anecdote about | heavenly mothers that someone told me Joseph Smith had | said. Here is what my friend said: Joseph Smith was | once lying on the ground looking up into heaven when he | said to a friend beside him: "Do you know what I see? I | see a father, a mother, and a son." Apparently later | church leaders edited out mother and replaced it with | Holy Spirit. ___ Sounds like a corruption of the account of seeing Adam and Eve on a throne. The heavens gradually opened and they saw a golden throne, on a circular foundation, something like a lighthouse, and on the throne were two aged personages, having white hair, and clothed in white garments. They were the two most beautiful and perfect specimens of mankind he ever saw. Joseph said, "They are our first parents," Adam and Eve That was a late recollection by Zebedee Coltrin. (11 October 1883, Salt Lake School of the Prophets Minute Book) However for various reasons I'm not sure I trust Coltrin's recollections. Especially not that late when it would have been heavily colored by later events. (i.e. Adam/God) - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:26:31 -0400 From: "Jamie Laulusa" Subject: Re: [AML] Val Kilmer and Joseph Smith >From: Barbara Hume Sean is a >cross-genre actor--fantasy in LOTR, adventure fiction in the Richard Sharpe >movies, villainy in that Harrison Ford movie, and sex object in Lady >Chatterly, which for some reason is considered great literature. There's my >connection! I don't know who he could play in a Mormon movie. If he were in >the bishopric and on the stand every Sunday, I'll bet there would be great >attendance among a certain segment of sisters. > >barbara hume > And here's me thinking I'm the only one who'd take Boromir over Leggy (and Sean over Orlando)! I think Sean Bean would be a good Martin Harris. Martin Harris is very Boromir-ish guy, I think. He had a Precious he was chasing after, but in the end he was a Good Guy. But maybe that's type-casting, and I don't like type-casting, so let's make him Hyrum Smith instead. As for Joseph...what about Robert Sean Leonard? He's not bad looking. He was a bit whiny as Claudio in Much Ado About Nothing, but Claudio is a whiny-butt anyway. I came in late, so why are we talking about this? Just hypothetical fun? ~Jamie Laulusa, back from a summer sojourn _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 18:27:06 -0600 From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Sorry to spoil your exercise in type-casting, but I hate the taste of Diet Coke preferring just regular Coke w/caffeine. I am also a Republican, who craves challenging history and searches out unconventional as well as conventional doctrine. I do my teaching whenever I get around to it and always wear my hats at a jaunty angle. Nan McCulloch - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:07:40 -0600 From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] Caffeinated Drinks Sorry, but I've just got to tell this story, My cousin, twenty years ago, was in Hawaii and found that several students at BYUH were justifying their consumption of coffee by saying that they serve it at the PCC. This didn't strike her as right or just and with some encouragement from others, she started a petition to have coffee banned from the PCC. Nobody could tell her a good reason they served it there. Finally, a visiting apostle was eager to explain it to her in a private interview (the PCC was not designed as a church visitors center but a place for the college kids from the islands to earn some school money), and tell her in no uncertain terms to drop the issue or face disciplinary action. But thanks for the report Ronn. I guess now the island students understand not to drink caffenated soda pop but coffee is okay. That's just the opposite message I get here in Utah. Alan Mitchell - ----- Original Message ----- > At 07:20 AM 8/21/03 -1000, Peter Chamberlain wrote: > >Just and interesting schizophrenia: I was at the Church-owned Polynesian > >Cultural Center a few weeks ago and at the Luau I noticed that all of > >the drinks at the soda fountain were caffeine free, yet right next to > >the soda fountain was a bank of six or seven coffee pots. Sorta funny I > >thought. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:11:44 -0600 From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Boy, you think the BofM fireside was close to the edge, what about BYU football. I dunno, guess I've been out of the loop too long, sounds to me like straight out of the Sugar Beet. Chris--is Tad Walch one of your writers? - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- BYU double-header Oct. 4 Conference topped by a game; MWC sweep seen By Tad Walch Deseret Morning News PROVO - Brigham Young University fans who are members of the LDS Church have a lot to look forward to on Oct. 4 - six hours of general conference topped off by a football game. BYU officials told the Mountain West Conference this year that they wouldn't agree to a game on the weekend of the church's annual October conference unless it was scheduled after the priesthood session, the final meeting of the day. San Diego State agreed to host the game at 7 p.m. Pacific Time, just as the two-hour meeting ends. Athletic director Val Hale failed to persuade his counterpart at San Diego State to move the game to 7:30 to give BYU fans time to get to the stadium. Hale is delighted, however, that the decision presents a unique opportunity for Cougar fans elsewhere in the nation because the church's satellite system now will broadcast the priesthood session followed immediately by the game. "So stick around," Hale said. "It's a double-header made in heaven - priesthood meeting followed by BYU football." Hale had a triple-header of his own on Thursday as he rolled out the red carpet for BYU sports fans attending Education Week. He gave a morning lecture on the state of BYU sports followed in the afternoon by a personal tour of the nearly completed indoor practice facility. In the evening, he introduced the visitors to the football team at the annual watermelon bust at LaVell Edwards Stadium. Hale said the state of BYU athletics is good - he believes Cougar teams have the potential to sweep every conference championship this year - but still faces financial hurdles. "We're having a hard time funding what we have," he said when asked if the school might soon reinstate men's gymnastics or wrestling, which were cut two years ago. "We're challenged to break even." Of course, that explains the addition of 1,500 premium "club" seats - which cost $1,000 each - on the east side of the stadium this year. "If we sell every seat, it would add $1.5 million to the athletic department," he said. "We need that money to operate." Hale expressed frustration that some fans think the athletic department will make money on the new food and concessions policy. For the first time, BYU won't allow fans to bring food and drinks into games. He said security concerns prompted the change, which was recommended by an independent university committee for all events at the stadium, including the Stadium of Fire on the 4th of July. Hale agreed to the change, he said, on the condition concessions were upgraded, and the university responded by adding food from nine local restaurants. While prices are somewhat higher than at restaurants, Hale said they are more reasonable than at most college football stadiums. The additional income mostly covers overhead and does little to recoup the cost of adding and improving concessions stands. "At these prices, it will take a long time before we ever make back that million dollars," Hale said. He also covered parking - Cougar Club members now have guaranteed spots in the stalls closest to the stadium - and the dispute over access to the Bowl Championship Series for football, saying a playoff system would be ideal. He said the football game at New Mexico would be a key to the team's season because the Lobos are picked to finish second and because BYU's other MWC road games are against teams expected to finish sixth, seventh and eighth in the eight-team conference. It's also the first game between the schools since BYU hired defensive coordinator Bronco Mendenhall away from New Mexico. Hale's Education Week guests appreciated the service, but one annual visitor from Apple Valley, Calif., longed for the days when LaVell Edwards was coaching because he opened football practices to the public. "They can charge us $50 if they want to, but let us into practice," Thomas Womeldorf said. "Now we can't even look through the fence." Womeldorf said he was impressed by Hale's hospitality anyway, including the joke Hale cracked at the end of his morning presentation. It was the kind of playful jab that athletic directors take at rivals when they speak to booster groups. One fan asked Hale if there was a hotline he could call if he found a great high school football player BYU should recruit. "Yes," Hale said. "It's 1-800-BEAT-UTAH." - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 22:33:46 -0500 From: "Preston Hunter" Subject: [AML] Mormon Killer in Best Picture Oscar Winner "Chicago," released in 2002, won the Academy Award for Best Picture. This movie features a blatantly anti-Mormon reference which trades on old and inaccurate religious and ethnic stereotypes. Nevertheless, Latter-day Saints who have enjoyed watching "Chicago" have generally not found the reference offensive, merely amusing. Most of the film takes place in prison, where the two main female characters are incarcerated on "Murderess Row." One of the women in the cell next to them is Annie (played by actress Denise Faye), who is incarcerated for murdering the "Mormon" man she had been living with. From her description of events, the man could not actually have been a practicing Latter-day Saint. For one thing, he is described as practicing polygamy in a time 50 years after the end of the practice by the Church. Yet from the film's perspective (certainly from Annie's perspective), the man was a typical Mormon. Tony Award-winning dancer Scott Wise is briefly seen in the movie in a flashback as Annie's "Mormon" boyfriend, "Ezekial Young." [Interestingly enough, actress Denise Faye had a small part in the movie "Donnie Brasco," in which one of the main characters is a Mormon FBI chief, and Scott Wise was a performer in the TV musical special "Fosse" (2001), a salute Broadway choreographer Bob Fosse, who was a long-time collaborator with famed Mormon dancer Buzz Miller.] In "Chicago," during the musical number "Cell Block Tango," Annie describes the murder she committed: [QUOTE] I met Ezekiel Young from Salt Lake city about two years ago and he told me he was single and we hit it off right away. So, we started living together. He'd go to work, he'd come home, I'd mix him a drink, We'd have dinner. Well, it was like heaven in two and a half rooms. And then I found out, "Single" he told me? Single, my ass. Not only was he married ...oh, no, he had six wives. One of those Mormons, you know. So that night, when he came home, I mixed him his drink as usual. You know, some guys just can't hold their arsenic. [END QUOTE] This is undeniably an anti-Mormon reference, just as much as a line about a "Typical Jew!" or "One of those Negros!" would be considered anti-Semitic or racist. It also presents a genuinely inaccurate view of Mormons, practicing or otherwise, and is drawn not from the real-world experience of the musical's writers, but from 19th Century anti-Mormon writing. Having said that, this reference has little bearing on the movie as a whole, and should not be a factor in judging the film's merits. "Chicago" is almost entirely about characters who exhibit strong negative characteristics, characters who can be described as entertainingly amoral at best. So an anti-Mormon reference made by a confessed murderess is hardly scandalous. (Would it be preferable if an adulterous incarcerated killer praised Mormons?) I would in no way wish for Chicago to be changed, or for this reference to be omitted. (It is part of what is really a rather catchy tune.) I will simply point out that for the sake of balance, director Rob Marshall owes us a rousing big-screen version of "Saturday's Warrior," with T.C. Christensen as cinematographer and Elizabeth Hansen as screenwriter. Preston Hunter - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2003 21:40:48 -0600 From: "Alan Rex Mitchell" Subject: Re: [AML] Humanities and Mormon Mindset Thank you Clark for calling them out on that. Mormons confuse Art with propaganda, not quest? Makes me wonder--do they identify the Spirit as Art or Propaganda? See, some of us have the spirit as the motivating force behind our art--or at least the search for truth. We see truth and right living as coexisting, unlike many in the world. All I can think of to say is that many present-day artists confuse Art with flatulance and history will judge them as totally absent from the even the lowest levels of achievement in art, literature, and blah blah blah. Alan Mitchell - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 00:56:11 -0400 From: "Eric D. Dixon" Subject: [AML] Community Theatre and the "F" Word Orson Scott Card takes on Neil Simon: http://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2003-08-10-1.html Eric D. Dixon - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 09:34:03 -0700 From: AML Subject: [AML] _Irreantum_ Issue on Romance Irreantum, the printed literary quarterly of the nonprofit Association for Mormon Letters, is featuring Mormon romance fiction in its new issue. Here is a listing of this issue's contents, followed by ordering information. (Please forward this message to anyone else who might be interested.) EDITORIAL Romance: Embracing the Label, Annette Lyon ESSAYS Don't Call My Book a Bodice-Ripper! Or, The Value of Romance Fiction, Barbara R. Hume In Defense of a Little Romance, Valerie Holladay Sign of the Times in LDS Romance, Josi S. Kilpack INTERVIEWS Anita Stansfield Madeline Baker NOVEL EXCERPTS A Gilded World, Anita Stansfield Wolf Shadow, Madeline Baker Where I Belong, Rachel Nunes Where Fate May Lead, Michele Holms What the Doctor Ordered, Sierra St. James STORY Arm's Length, Shirley Bahlmann In addition, this issue also includes the following: ESSAYS Love Stories--That Is, a Love of Story, Bruce W. Jorgensen Seeking Straunge Strondes: The Pilgrimage of Marden J. Clark, Harlow S. Clark MEMOIR Mirrors in Stone, Nancy Hoole Taylor POETRY Marden J. Clark, Bessie Soderborg Clark, P. G. Karamensines, Kris Bluth, and Dixie Partridge REVIEWS Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith, Jon Krakauer The Last Mile of the Way, Margaret Blair Young and Darius Aiden Gray The Last Promise, Richard Paul Evans Silent Notes Taken: Personal Essays by Mormon New Yorkers House of James, Lewis B. Horne To Love Again, Anita Stansfield Following the Wrong God Home: Footloose in an American Dream, Clive Scott Chisholm Surrounded by Strangers, Josi S. Kilpack Seventh Seal, A Novel of the Last Days, Jessica and Richard D. Draper ORDERING INFO To receive of copy of this issue, send a check for $6 to AML, PO Box 51364, Provo, UT 84605 and be sure to specify the romance issue. For a four-issue subscription, send $16 and state that you want to start with the romance issue. Or use one of the following PayPal links: Copy of the romance issue, $6 http://aml.c.tclk.net/maaboyTaaZ8wMbatlYAb/ 4-issue subscription beginning with the romance issue, $16: http://aml.c.tclk.net/maaboyTaaZ8wNbatlYAb/ For more information about Irreantum, visit Irreantum.org. ==================================================================== Update your profile here: http://aml.u.tclk.net/survey/?a84D2W.batlYA.YW1sLWxp Unsubscribe here: http://aml.u.tclk.net/survey/?a84D2W.batlYA.YW1sLWxp.u Delivered by Topica Email Publisher, http://www.email-publisher.com/ - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 09:40:53 -0600 From: "Paris Anderson" Subject: Re: [AML] More Bookbinding Adventures > I recently consulted with a librarian in book repair concerning an 1834 > book I own that needs its cover reattached. She recommended the Tacky Glue, > but not Elmer's. > > barbara hume > DON"T DO THAT!!!! Never, never, never! How else can I say no? 1834 is an antique. If you work on antiques everything you do has to be reversible. PVA is not reversible. That means when your repair wears out the damage to your antique will be significant and unholy. Use wheat paste. Then, if you mess up the repair, you can take it apart and do it again. With PVA if you mess up--you've messed up. My best advise is go to a conservator. If the damage isn't very severe, like if you just have re-glue a loose paste-down, use wheat paste, or find a conservator. If that's a bother, e-mail the dimensions of the book to me and I'll build a box for you. Boxes are the ultimate in reversibility. You can close them *AND* open them. Paris Anderson - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 16:47:15 -0600 From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Adams" > There has never been a denial of the concept of a > Mother in Heaven, > although it's common knowledge that this is the usual > interpretation of "O My Father." But to my > recollection it's never been preached from the pulpit > either, as doctrine. > > Linda Adams > > I tried once before to respond to this thread but didn't make it past the moderator. But I will try this one more time. I hope it will pass the test of our list guidelines as it does make reference to Mormon letters. We have a very reputable book written by one of our prophets in corroboration with his counselors, which I think will stand as a witness to the question of whether or not we have received valid doctrine on the question of a mother in heaven, albeit not from the pulpit. Because it is a book written for the general public, I guess some can't consider it scripture, but I would think that any writing about heavenly things or spiritual relationships to deity would be considered doctrine or clarification of doctrine, which the foreword, written by Mark E. Peterson, states. The following is a direct quote: The Father of Jesus is our Father also, Jesus himself taught this truth, when he instructed his disciples how to pray: "Our Father which art in heaven," etc. Jesus, however, is the Firstborn among all the sons of God-the first begotten in the spirit, and the Only Begotten in the flesh. He is our elder brother, and we, like him, are in the image of God. All men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity. (Joseph Fielding Smith, Man, His Origin and Destiny [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1954], 351.) I interpret -"begotten in the spirit" as spiritual offspring of an eternal father and an eternal mother, which is the ultimate form of creation, which those who are exalted will participate in within the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom. that is why we will find our final estate to be: "...to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever..." (D&C 132:19 Likewise I interpret "continuation of seeds" to mean the ability to sire spiritual children. Some may find these interpretations too literal or if you will pardon the usage, liberal, and if so I'm sorry, but it seems logical and in keeping with our belief in our ability to become gods and goddesses. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:29:37 -0600 From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Heavenly Mothers Karen Davidson further states in her piece that Eliza R. Snow was married to Joseph Smith at the time she wrote this hymn and thus had many opportunities to discuss matters of doctrine with him ( this point she got from George D. Pyper). Pyper continues Zina D. Huntington's mother who had died some time before and was buried in a temporary grave. They had to exhume the body and discovered that the remains were partially petrified. This upset Zina and caused her to ask, "Shall I know my mother when I meet her in the world beyond?" The Prophet responded emphatically, "Yes, you will know your mother there." Davidson concludes that from these points (her close association with the Prophet and the discussions about Zina's mothers death) came the inspiration for Eliza R. Snow to write the poem. Nan McCulloch - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Adams" > That could be the right book, but I was thinking of a story giving the > history of how she came to write it, and that Joseph Smith gave his > approval of the verses. Something like that? > At any rate it's one of my most favorite hymns. - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:37:18 -0600 From: "Nan P. McCulloch" Subject: Re: [AML] Street Painting in Italy Congratulations on this remarkable achievement. As an art collector, I'm trying to figure out how to collect your street painting art. Do you use other mediums? Where can I see your work? Try to go to Istanbul. It is such a fabulous place. Nan McCulloch - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:40:13 -0600 From: "Bill Willson" Subject: [AML] Re: Uplifting Writing (was: Mormon Reference in SWAT) [MOD: I'm trying to standardize to a new thread title for this dimension of the discussion.] - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christopher Bigelow" > <<< > I guess we as a group of writers have to use our > agency to decide whether our purpose is to strengthen the image of the > church and attract our readers toward investigating it more seriously, or > denigrating the church and its members into shame. > >>> > > This either/or type of thinking is exactly what gives rise to so much Mormon > literature that is merely disguised propaganda. What's wrong with having the > purpose of honestly exploring and portraying human reality, both the good > and the bad, and letting the chips fall where they may with regards to how > people view the LDS Church? When a writer starts with the notion of > strengthening the church's image or attracting investigators, he or she will > likely not write anything challenging, provocative, deep, or authentic > enough to be called real literature. > I agree that as writers we shouldn't start out with the purpose of luring our readers into investigating the church. I think we should attempt to honestly explore and portray human reality, both the good and the bad, and let our characters triumph over adversity and human foibles and yes, eventually, despite all their weaknesses and failures, to find hope and faith in the restored gospel. By developing plots that lead our characters from the depths of human despair to the heights of growth, redemption, and faith in our Lord and Savior, we can instill in our readers a desire to do the same. Personally I see nothing wrong in this goal for my writing. However we all have our agency to portray the church and its members in any way we see fit. We also have the responsibility for how we do this. As for me and my PC, I will try my best to advance the cause of the church, by showing its redemptive and saving powers, despite the faults and imperfections of the members, and yes, occasional errors of the leadership. Let each of us try to do the same, and let's remember not to be too judgmental of each other, we can only do our best according to how and what we know or understand. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:57:29 -0600 From: "Bill Willson" Subject: Re: [AML] Mormon Reference in SWAT - ----- Original Message ----- From: "D. Michael Martindale" > Bill Willson wrote: > > > Since when does cuteness justify damaging the image of anyone, or the image > > of the church members? > > I think you're exaggerating the power of the cute scenes to damage us. > We've done much more damage to our own image than these trivial scenes > ever could. > > > > I guess we as a group of writers have to use our > > agency to decide whether our purpose is to strengthen the image of the > > church and attract our readers toward investigating it more seriously, or > > denigrating the church and its members into shame. > > Were the writers of that film LDS? If not, how is this relevant? But > ignoring that point, let me respond to what you said. > I don't think we need to ignore this point. If I'm not mistaken the AML list is for writers who are Mormon or who write for or about the Mormons. So what does it matter what the writer's religion is, he wrote something about Mormons into his plot. As to the rest of your post, please see my response to Christopher Bigelow's response to my same post. I think we all agree that the purpose of our writing shouldn't focus on luring converts or investigators to the church, but we do need to show our readers that there is a better way to pass through mortality and that there is a purpose to life far above their wildest dreams. Bill Willson, writer http://www.iwillwriteit.com http://www.latterdaybard.com Here's a great place for LDS artists to show and sell their work. http://www.minutemall.com CHECK IT OUT! - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 19:52:27 -0600 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] Box Office Report 22 Aug. 03 >A MORMON IN "NORTHFORK"? - "Northfork" is a new feature film currently in >theatrical release. The movie stars non-LDS Utah native James Woods in the >lead role. Co-stars include Mark Polish, Nick Nolte, Daryl Hannah and >Anthony Edwards. The movie depicts a group of government agents trying to >persuade residents of a rural area of Montana to move away before the area >is flooded. One resident is a devoutly religious taxidermist, "Mr. >Stalling", played by veteran character actor Marshall Bell. He and his two >wives (named Mrs. Stalling #1 and Mrs. Stalling #2 in the credits) have >built a home in the shape of an ark and tell Woods' character that they plan >to float when the waters come. A few movie reviewers refer to the three >characters (Stalling and his 2 >wives) as "Mormons," or "Mormon polygamists," but nearly all other reviewers >simply refer to them as "polygamists" (perhaps a nod to Church >preferences?), or they simply call Mr. Stalling a man with two wives. I >haven't seen the movie, so I have no way of knowing if the characters are >intended to be Mormonesque polygamists, or if the Stallings are intended to >be general Protestant polygamists. I have seen the movie, and no, they're no indication they're Mormons. Reviewers who have called them that have done so on the assumption that all polygamists in America are Mormon fundamentalists. Which, I guess, is probably true. But still, the movie doesn't say so. Eric D. Snider - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:13:03 -0600 From: "Eric D. Snider" Subject: Re: [AML] BofM Movie Fireside Jana Remy: >I've been recently called as my Stake's "Media Liason", which is an arm of >the Stake Public Relations Dept. At a PR meeting last night each ward PR >Rep was handed copies of the BOM movie posters for their foyers and were >encouraged to have ward FHE outings to attend the movie so we could boost >its attendance in So. Cal and keep it in the theaters longer. This sort of thoughtlessness is stunning, absolutely stunning. Have any of these people even SEEN the movie yet? For all they know, it's the worst film ever made. But being based on the Book of Mormon, it's automatically worth seeing and planning ward activities around? If the film does suck -- and everything I've heard about it so far suggests that it does -- I hope people will respond accordingly. But I have this sick feeling that it's going to make money anyway. Eric D. Snider - -- AML-List, a mailing list for the discussion of Mormon literature ------------------------------ End of aml-list-digest V2 #137 ******************************