From: Ken Sanders Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] How would you price this? Date: 01 Oct 2002 10:08:03 -0600 Mark, I've seen the 20 copies of the BOM, definitely not apocryphal. Ken Sanders. "Edlund, Mark J" wrote: > Malcolm mentions an interesting phenomenon among Mormon collectors, the penchant for collecting multiple copies of the 1st edition Book of Mormon. I have heard several other dealers mention collectors with 5 to 10 copies, so it seems that are at least several individuals who collect in this manner. I even heard tale of one collector with 20 copies of the 1830 BOM, although surely this must be apocryphal. > > This is a practice I don't understand. I have generally tried to follow the admonition of the great collector ED Graff, who said he only had one copy of each book, so that others could have the pleasure also of obtaining a given title. However, my following of this tenet is perhaps more a reflection of my budget than my altruism. > > Nevertheless, my question is, why own multiple copies? > > It may be that some people are not collecting BOMS, but rather investing in them. Reviewing some pertinent facts makes this phenomenon even more interesting. Perhaps most importantly, the BOM has historically been a poor investment. From the early 1980's to the early to mid 1990's the BOM about doubled in value. During this time, the Dow Jones went up by approximately a factor of four or five. Nevertheless, in the early to mid 1990's was when, as far as I can tell, people started buying multiple copies, even though up to that time the BOM had been a poor investment. > > My belief is that the buying of multiple copies is what spurred the fantastic rise in price of the BOM, at least in part. Over the course of approximately 8 years the price went up about 10 fold,and it is hard for me to believe that this was due to dozens of new people entering the market, buying only a single copy. (Interestingly, if this pace continues for 80 to 90 years a BOM could be worth more than the combined output of the world economy during a given year.) > > Anyway, it is interesting phenomenon. > > Mark Edlund > > -----Original Message----- > From: Malcolm Vickery > To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > Sent: 9/30/2002 12:35 PM > Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] How would you price this? > > Not sure what the attraction is... Except it is as hard as hens teeth to > find! > > Is it important?? Possibly not as a printed book. But, from Flake it > seems as though the 1860's were the real low period (outside the 1830's) > in LDS printing and publishing. I know of collector's who just collect > the 1860's because of the challenge it produces! The D/C's from this > period are as difficult at the 1866 Book of Mormon, but because there > aren't as many D/C collectors, they don't seem to command the same level > of prices. > > I find that folks that are collecting different editions of the Book of > Mormon rarely have this one in their collection. > > One collector has 5 first editions - as well as excellent copies of the > all the other 19th Century editions - but... No 1866! > > I've only ever had a couple - and I didn't hang on to them long enough > to enjoy them! > > Folks say that the 1842 is rare - But I see about ten of them to every > 1866 I see!! > > I wonder if anybody knows how many were printed?? > > Ummmm... Any out there for sale???? > > Malcolm J. Vickery > Distinctive Books > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Stocks > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:21 AM > To: Malcolm Vickery; lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] How would you price this? > > Hmmm. Maybe I'm just having a Monday morning senior moment, but > what's the interest in the 1866 Book of Mormon? It's the end of the > line for British-printed books until 1879, but pretty unremarkable as > far > as I can see. Of course there are at least two impressions, but > still.... > > On 30 Sep 2002 at 10:41, Malcolm Vickery stepped forward > and addressed "RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] How would you p": > > > Off the top of my head - One's I get asked about lots... > > > > Newer Books:- > > Wilford Woodruff's Journals, > > On the Potter's Wheel, > > Watson's 2 Volumes of Manuscript History Brigham Young, > > > > Older Books:- > > 1866 Book of Mormon, > > Northern Utah Southern Idaho - Tullidge, > > Volumes 1 - 4 Millennial Star, > > Volumes 1 - 3 Times and Seasons. > > > > I'm sure there are many others if I just think... But it's hard on a > > Monday morning! > > > > Malcolm J. Vickery > > Distinctive Books > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of ROY > > SCHMIDT Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:30 AM To: > > lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] How > > would you price this? > > > > > > Thanks, Ken. > > > > Another question, please. I was in Benchmark on Saturday, and was told > > > the longest waiting list books, are Studies in Scriptures, Vol. 2, and > > > the Journal of Discourses? > > > > Ken, Rick, Mark, others: which books currently have the longest wait? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Roy > > > > >>> ken@dreamgarden.com 09/30/02 10:11AM >>> > > $200 and $100 respectively. > > > > ROY SCHMIDT wrote: > > > > > I have a copy of Gordon B. Hinckley's book _What of the Mormon's?_. > > It > > > is in very good condition, with a good to very good dj. What makes > > it > > > interesting is that it is signed by GBH as well as George Albert > > > Smith, and GAS, Jr. It was presented to an official at Princeton, > > > where, I believe GAS, Jr. was employed. > > > > > > What would you think would be the fair market value of this item? > > It > > > is not for sale, but it would be helpful for inventory purposes. > > > > > > Another item is Ezra Taft Benson's _Freedom to Farm_. It is signed > > by > > > him and inscribed to Harold Stassen. How would you price this? > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Roy Schmidt > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > > > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - > > > "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message > > body. > > > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > > > -- > > Ken Sanders > > Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA > > 268 South 200 East > > Salt Lake City UT 84111 > > (801) 521-3819 > > Fax: (801) 521-2606 > > http://www.kensandersbooks.com > > ken@dreamgarden.com > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message > > body. > > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > -- > Hugh Stocks > hstocks@vii.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] How would you price this? Date: 01 Oct 2002 13:34:49 -0500 ken, Over what time period did he or she amass the copies, and why? Mark -----Original Message----- Sent: 10/1/2002 11:08 AM Mark, I've seen the 20 copies of the BOM, definitely not apocryphal. Ken Sanders. "Edlund, Mark J" wrote: > Malcolm mentions an interesting phenomenon among Mormon collectors, the penchant for collecting multiple copies of the 1st edition Book of Mormon. I have heard several other dealers mention collectors with 5 to 10 copies, so it seems that are at least several individuals who collect in this manner. I even heard tale of one collector with 20 copies of the 1830 BOM, although surely this must be apocryphal. > > This is a practice I don't understand. I have generally tried to follow the admonition of the great collector ED Graff, who said he only had one copy of each book, so that others could have the pleasure also of obtaining a given title. However, my following of this tenet is perhaps more a reflection of my budget than my altruism. > > Nevertheless, my question is, why own multiple copies? > > It may be that some people are not collecting BOMS, but rather investing in them. Reviewing some pertinent facts makes this phenomenon even more interesting. Perhaps most importantly, the BOM has historically been a poor investment. From the early 1980's to the early to mid 1990's the BOM about doubled in value. During this time, the Dow Jones went up by approximately a factor of four or five. Nevertheless, in the early to mid 1990's was when, as far as I can tell, people started buying multiple copies, even though up to that time the BOM had been a poor investment. > > My belief is that the buying of multiple copies is what spurred the fantastic rise in price of the BOM, at least in part. Over the course of approximately 8 years the price went up about 10 fold,and it is hard for me to believe that this was due to dozens of new people entering the market, buying only a single copy. (Interestingly, if this pace continues for 80 to 90 years a BOM could be worth more than the combined output of the world economy during a given year.) > > Anyway, it is interesting phenomenon. > > Mark Edlund > > -----Original Message----- > From: Malcolm Vickery > To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > Sent: 9/30/2002 12:35 PM > Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] How would you price this? > > Not sure what the attraction is... Except it is as hard as hens teeth to > find! > > Is it important?? Possibly not as a printed book. But, from Flake it > seems as though the 1860's were the real low period (outside the 1830's) > in LDS printing and publishing. I know of collector's who just collect > the 1860's because of the challenge it produces! The D/C's from this > period are as difficult at the 1866 Book of Mormon, but because there > aren't as many D/C collectors, they don't seem to command the same level > of prices. > > I find that folks that are collecting different editions of the Book of > Mormon rarely have this one in their collection. > > One collector has 5 first editions - as well as excellent copies of the > all the other 19th Century editions - but... No 1866! > > I've only ever had a couple - and I didn't hang on to them long enough > to enjoy them! > > Folks say that the 1842 is rare - But I see about ten of them to every > 1866 I see!! > > I wonder if anybody knows how many were printed?? > > Ummmm... Any out there for sale???? > > Malcolm J. Vickery > Distinctive Books > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Hugh Stocks > Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:21 AM > To: Malcolm Vickery; lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] How would you price this? > > Hmmm. Maybe I'm just having a Monday morning senior moment, but > what's the interest in the 1866 Book of Mormon? It's the end of the > line for British-printed books until 1879, but pretty unremarkable as > far > as I can see. Of course there are at least two impressions, but > still.... > > On 30 Sep 2002 at 10:41, Malcolm Vickery stepped forward > and addressed "RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] How would you p": > > > Off the top of my head - One's I get asked about lots... > > > > Newer Books:- > > Wilford Woodruff's Journals, > > On the Potter's Wheel, > > Watson's 2 Volumes of Manuscript History Brigham Young, > > > > Older Books:- > > 1866 Book of Mormon, > > Northern Utah Southern Idaho - Tullidge, > > Volumes 1 - 4 Millennial Star, > > Volumes 1 - 3 Times and Seasons. > > > > I'm sure there are many others if I just think... But it's hard on a > > Monday morning! > > > > Malcolm J. Vickery > > Distinctive Books > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of ROY > > SCHMIDT Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:30 AM To: > > lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] How > > would you price this? > > > > > > Thanks, Ken. > > > > Another question, please. I was in Benchmark on Saturday, and was told > > > the longest waiting list books, are Studies in Scriptures, Vol. 2, and > > > the Journal of Discourses? > > > > Ken, Rick, Mark, others: which books currently have the longest wait? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Roy > > > > >>> ken@dreamgarden.com 09/30/02 10:11AM >>> > > $200 and $100 respectively. > > > > ROY SCHMIDT wrote: > > > > > I have a copy of Gordon B. Hinckley's book _What of the Mormon's?_. > > It > > > is in very good condition, with a good to very good dj. What makes > > it > > > interesting is that it is signed by GBH as well as George Albert > > > Smith, and GAS, Jr. It was presented to an official at Princeton, > > > where, I believe GAS, Jr. was employed. > > > > > > What would you think would be the fair market value of this item? > > It > > > is not for sale, but it would be helpful for inventory purposes. > > > > > > Another item is Ezra Taft Benson's _Freedom to Farm_. It is signed > > by > > > him and inscribed to Harold Stassen. How would you price this? > > > > > > Any help would be appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Roy Schmidt > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > > > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - > > > "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message > > body. > > > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > > > -- > > Ken Sanders > > Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA > > 268 South 200 East > > Salt Lake City UT 84111 > > (801) 521-3819 > > Fax: (801) 521-2606 > > http://www.kensandersbooks.com > > ken@dreamgarden.com > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message > > body. > > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > -- > Hugh Stocks > hstocks@vii.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Frank Marotta Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] LIST OF WORKS IN THE NYPL RELATING TO THE MORMONS Date: 03 Oct 2002 12:18:58 -0400 I saw this on ABE; anyone see this reprint yet? Any comments? Frank Marotta 1. LIST OF WORKS IN THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY RELATING TO THE MORMONS. (Mansfield Centre, CT Martino n.d., but 2002). This scarce offprint of Mormon bibliography first appeared in the Bulletin of the New York Public Library, March, 1909, and is both early and quite extensive, describing almost 1750 items arranged alphabetically by author (Besterman 4021). A large majority of the books were collected by William Berrian, from whose estate they were bought in December, 1899, by Helen Miller Gould and presented to the library. Binding is 8vo., cloth. (iv), pp. 183-239. (Keywords: 1578982979 BIB-TWENIN MORMONS RELIGION OKPX MM) The price of the book is US$ 45.00 - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJRom@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] LIST OF WORKS IN THE NYPL RELATING TO THE MORMONS Date: 03 Oct 2002 17:00:37 -0400 Frank, I have not seen the book yet, but I spoke with Marino Publishing a few days ago about it. As you may know, Marino is well-known for publishing and reprinting bibliographic material, usually in very small printings. This book is cloth bound and published in a printing of 50 copies. I placed an order last Tuesday, but they only mail out books once a week, so I probably won't receive the order until late next week. If you are interested, I will let you know what I think when it arrives. Also, I will sell copies at a 20% discount, if you are interested. Brian In a message dated Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:18:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, fmarotta@juno.com writes: > > I saw this on ABE; anyone see this reprint yet? Any comments? > > Frank Marotta > > > 1. LIST OF WORKS IN THE NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY RELATING TO THE MORMONS. > (Mansfield Centre, CT Martino n.d., but 2002). This scarce offprint of > Mormon bibliography first appeared in the Bulletin of the New York Public > Library, March, 1909, and is both early and quite extensive, describing > almost 1750 items arranged alphabetically by author (Besterman 4021). A > large majority of the books were collected by William Berrian, from whose > estate they were bought in December, 1899, by Helen Miller Gould and > presented to the library. Binding is 8vo., cloth. (iv), pp. > 183-239. > (Keywords: 1578982979 BIB-TWENIN MORMONS RELIGION OKPX MM) > The price of the book is US$ 45.00 - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] News From JWHA Date: 03 Oct 2002 15:13:28 -0600 ___ Mark ___ | My own opinion, which I have gathered from others, is that his | work is quite accurate. From what I hear Krakauer's story is | much closer to the truth than Boukreev's-although correct me if | I am wrong here. ___ Back when Boukreev's book came out, I know many in the climbing community were very critical of Krakauer. While I think Krakauer made some good points regarding the guiding service, I think he did overlook a lot of things Boukreev did. It's been too long since I read the books, however. My own personal opinion is that Krakauer was going for a bit more of a sensationalist bent. While that makes sense for outsiders looking in, I think that within the climbing community the perspective on life that Boukreev takes is more in tune with how they look at things. i.e. you are largely responsible for your own fate and guides are just that - an aid. Going on Everest isn't like going on a tour of downtown New York. I don't remember the other details however. The only reason I bring that up is that if Krakauer is writing on Mormon dissidents, that outsider vs. insider view will undoubtedly raise its head again. In many ways I think the situation does parallel the climbing community's view of people. In some ways the climbing community is its own religion with various internal wars. (Although the wars are over bolting rather than historicity as in Mormonism. ) -- Clark Goble --- clark@lextek.com ----------------------------- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Cahoon Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] News From JWHA Date: 03 Oct 2002 19:53:42 -0700 (PDT) He still is... --- "Edlund, Mark J" wrote: > The JWHA conference this year was great. At least > one other bookshelf member, Mark Holden, was in > attendance and I had the chance to speak with him. > Doug Cahoon was also there (is Doug on bookshelf?). __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Here is a list of items that may be of interest to 'Shelfers. Date: 07 Oct 2002 14:10:52 -0600 Here is a list of items that may be of interest to 'Shelfers. They are offered by Michael Ginsberg Books of Sharon, MA. www.ginsbook.com I have not done business with Ginsberg, so do not consider this an endorsement. Roy Schmidt 70. Kelly, Charles and Hoffman Birney. HOLY MURDER: THE STORY OF PORTER ROCKWELL. N.Y.,, Minton Blach , [1934]. [8],313pp. Illus. Original red cloth spine and abut 1/5 of front cover lightly darkened. First edition. Adams Guns 1223: "Has much on John D. Lee and Orrin Porter Rockwell and their crimes, the 'destroying angels,' and the Mountain Meadows Massacre." Not in Flake. 150.00 79. Leighly, John. CALIFORNIA AS AN ISLAND. AN ILLUSTRATED ESSAY. WITH TWENTY-FIVE PLATES & A BIBLIOGRAPHICAL CHECKLIST OF MAPS SHOWING CALIFORNIA AS AN ISLAND 1622 - 1785. San F.,, Bok Club of Ca, 1972. 154pp. 182 maps., plates, most double , one folded. Original half leather and boards. A very nice copy. One of 450 copies printed by Grabhorn & Hoyem. First edition. 1000.00 98. [MORMON]. Smith, Frederick M. APPEAL OF FREDERICK M. SMITH, ONE OF THE PRESIDENCY OF THE "REORGANIZED CHURCH" TO PRES. JOSEPH F. SMITH, FOR THE UNLIMITED USE OF THE MEETING HOUSES OF THE LATTER DAY SAINTS AND HIS REPLY. [Salt Lake City,, 1905].. 12pp. Original printed 16mo wrappers. First edition. Flake 7854, locates 6. 50.00 99. [MORMONS]. Erickson, Ephraim Edward. THE PSYCHOLOGICAL AND ETHICAL ASPECTS OF MORMON GROUP LIFE. Chicago, [1920]. [10],101pp. Original small 4to cloth, x-library. First edition. Flake 3180. 50.00 100. [MORMONS]. Marks, David. THE LIFE OF DAVID MARKS... INCLUDING THE PARTICULARS OF HIS CONVERSION, CALL TO THE MINISTRY, AND LABOURS IN ITINERANT PREACHING FOR NEARLY ELEVEN YEARS. Limerick, Maine, 1831. 396pp. Illus, port. Full contemporary calf, library stamps on endpapers, title page mended at inner margin, no text affected. First edition. Flake 5277, locates 9: "Visited the Whitmer family in 1830; his evaluation of the Book of Mormon and its witnesses." Sabin 44604. Howes M293 [1846 edition only]. This autobiography by a Free-Will Baptist of Jewish ancestry is notable as the earliest known account of the Book of Mormon from a hostile perspective. 1250.00 101. [MORMONS]. Stenhouse, Thomas B. H. [Mrs. Fanny]. AN ENGLISHWOMAN IN UTAH: THE STORY OF A LIFE'S EXPERIENCE IN MORMONISM. AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY... WITH INTRODUCTORY PREFACE BY MRS. HARRIET BEECHER STOWE, INCLUDING A FULL ACCOUNT OF THE MOUNTAIN MEADOWS MASSACRE, AND OF THE LIFE CONFESSION AND EXECUTION OF BISHOP JOHN D. LUE.. NEW AND CHEAPER EDITION. London, Sampson Low, 1882. [12],404,[2]pp. Illus. Original pictorial printed 12 mo boards, with endpapers ads. Flake 8399. There is an additions and corrections leaf laid in at end which is not cited by Flake. First edition. 175.00 134. [PACIFIC RAILROAD]. Carver, Dr. Hartwell. PROPOSAL FOR A CHARTER TO BUILD A RAILROAD FROM LAKE MICHIGAN TO THE PACIFIC OCEAN. Washington, Gideon, 1847. 38pp. Original printed wrappers, worn and mended, front wrapper acting as title page. First edition. Howes C 214 [aa]: "One of the earliest transcontinental projects\ with critical comments on the plans of Whitney and Wilkes." The author claims to be the "first who conceived the plan of building a railroad across the Rocky Mountains, connected the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans..." This pamphlet is his "Memorial" to Congress asking for a charter for construction of the railroad. Very scarce and important. 1500.00 146. Richthofen, Ferdinand [Paul Wilhelm]. THE COMSTOCK LODE: ITS CHARACTER, AND THE PROBABLE MODE OF ITS CONTINUANCE IN DEPTH. San F., Sutro Tunnel Company, 1866. 83pp. Original printed front wrapper only, small piece missing at top. First edition. He traveled to California where he was asked to study and report on the Nevada Comstock Lode. "This important work was don for the Board of the Sutro Tunnel. A rare Sutro item- Paher 1668. Howes R271. Not in Cowan. 300.00 177. [UTAH]. Anderson, Nils. DESERT SAINTS: THE MORMON FRONTIER IN UTAH. Chicago, [1942]. [20],459pp. Illus. Original small 4to cloth, x-library. First edition. Not in Flake 50.00 183. Wagner, Henry R. and Charles Camp and Robert Becker. THE PLAINS & THE ROCKIES: A CRITICAL BIBLIOGRAPHY OF EXPLORATION, ADVENTURE AND TRAVEL IN THE AMERICAN WEST 1800-1865. San F., 1982. 745pp. illus. Cloth. Fourth edition. Revised, enlarged and edited by Robert H. Becker. At last, the long awaited revision of the premier reference book of western Americana. The significance of this new edition lies in its thorough bibliographic treatment of each known issue and edition of each title, giving line-by-line transcriptions of every page and every map, full collations, references and confirmed locations of copies, together with brief editorial comments, and an index of authors, titles, and subjects. 150.00 194. Wood, Stanley. AN UNATTENDED JOURNEY OF THEN THOUSAND MILES BY RAIL. A TOUR BY FOUR YOUNG LADIES FROM THE LAKES, ACROSS THE PRAIRIES, OVER THE ROCKIES, THROUGH THE DESERTS, AMONG THE SIERRAS, TO THE PACIFIC COAST: A SOUVENIR OF TRANSCONTINENTAL TRAVEL... Chicago, White, 1895. 152,[6]pp. Illus. Original pictorial printed cloth, spine lightly faded. First edition. Traveler's Pictorial Series Vol. 1#1, May, 1895. Much on Colorado, Utah, Yellowstone and California. Not in Wynar, Howes, Graff, or Cowan. Flake 9988, locates only one copy.: "Chiefly descriptive with a brief history of Mormons in Utah." Reese: Trail to Plane 51: "A fictitious narrative from the days when railroads actually encouraged passengers, written to show that unchaperoned young ladies might travel without danger or impropriety. When our first three heroines decided to see California, they needed a fourth; "...then we can take a section all to ourselves in the sleeper, and there won't be any horrid man to sit in the front seat and stare us out of countenance..." 200.00 - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] more from Ginsberg Date: 07 Oct 2002 14:28:33 -0600 406. McClure, A. K. TO THE PACIFIC AND MEXICO. Phila., Lippincott, 1901. 162pp. Illus. Original silver stamped small 8vo cloth, x-library. First edition. Utah and the Mormons, San Francisco, Mexico city, Guadeloupe, Orizaba Mountains, etc. Not in Cowan. Flake 5123: "A revisit to Utah with notes on earlier conclusions, p. 9-29, locates 3 copies 75.00 436. [MORMONS]. THE MORMON TROUBLE. N.Y., 1845. In: New York Spectator, Oct. 1, 1845. 1/2 folio column of text on page 2. Reports on skirmishes; actions at Warsaw and Keokuk; killing of Mr. Worrell, eyewitness accounts,etc. Also, on page 3 is an article "the Anti-Mormon War," 1/2 folio column . Also an eyewitness account of activities at Warsaw. 100.00 437. [MORMONS]. THE MORMONS IN UTAH. [N.Y.}, 1851. In: Gazette of the Union. July 12, 1851, 1/2 folio column of text. "The people of the United states can, in a commercial and political sense, only be benefited by the growth of this remarkable people..." 75.00 438. [MORMONS]. Spencer, Orson. DEN PATRIARKALSKE ORDEN ELLER FLEERKONERI AF AELDSTE ORSON SPENCER... [Kjobehnavn, Bording, 1854]. 18pp. dbd. First edition in Danish. Flake 8334, locates only one copy. 125.00 705. [UTAH]. CONSTITUTION OF THE STATE OF UTAH. ADOPTED BY THE CONVENTION, APRIL 27, 1882... Salt Lake City, Deseret News, 1882. 42pp. Original printed front wrapper only. Kuhlman p.79. Includes the journal of the convention proceedings and the 4 page Memorial to Congress. This was an extremely popular document, winning the acceptance of the people 27,814 to 498. 175.00 706. [UTAH]. Gove, Jesse A. THE UTAH EXPEDITION, 1857 - 1858: LETTERS OF CAPT. JESSE A. GOVE, 10TH INF., U.S.A., OF CONCORD, N.H., TO MRS. GOVE, AND SPECIAL CORRESPONDENCE OF THE NEW YORK HERALD. Concord, N.H., 1928. 442pp. Illus. Original cloth. First edition. N.H. Hist. Soc. Colls. V. 12. Howes G279. Edited by Otis G. Hammond. 100.00 - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJRom@aol.com Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] NYT article on Mountain Meadows Date: 12 Oct 2002 16:44:38 EDT --part1_4c.133c6d5e.2ad9e3b6_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a lengthy article on the recent and forthcoming books on MMM in today's New York Times. It includes comments from authors of all three books--Bagley, Denton, and Turley. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/12/arts/12MORM.html Brian --part1_4c.133c6d5e.2ad9e3b6_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There's a lengthy article on the recent and forthcoming books on MMM in today's New York Times.  It includes comments from authors of all three books--Bagley, Denton, and Turley.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/12/arts/12MORM.html

Brian --part1_4c.133c6d5e.2ad9e3b6_boundary-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Holden Mark" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Joseph Smith Books Date: 13 Oct 2002 23:04:01 -0400 1. Was in Nauvoo a few weeks ago for the JWHA meeting and had an opportunity to revisit the transcription from the Red Brick store daybook from June 25 1842 to June 23 1844. The inventory from 7-12-42 to 10-21-43 showed 246 Books of Mormon and 1 "Superior Bound Book of Mormon" (among other books). This "Superior Bound Book of Mormon" was listed as having been purchased by Joseph Smith. Does anyone know what happened to this book? Does anyone know a convenient source listing all the books that were in Jospeh Smith's library/estate at his death? 2. Also had a brief visit with Robert Remini about his new Joseph Smith Bio. Asked him how many copies were being issued in the first printing. He said he had no idea as he had never asked, and said that it could be 10,000 or 20,000 or 30,000 copies. Hard to imagine writing a book but not knowing how many were to be initially printed - but I guess this is better than the alternative if that means multiple preplanned manufactured "rare" limited leather editions. Mark Holden _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Joseph Smith Books Date: 14 Oct 2002 12:39:50 EDT In a message dated 10/13/02 11:04:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mhold123@hotmail.com writes: << Hard to imagine writing a book but not knowing how many were to be initially printed - but I guess this is better than the alternative if that means multiple preplanned manufactured "rare" limited leather editions. >> I have to agree with you, Mark! Rick Grunder - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJRom@aol.com Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] FIRST PRINTINGS--Comments and a Question Date: 20 Oct 2002 20:26:44 EDT --part1_7f.2ddb0091.2ae4a3c4_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the Mormon market, at least for newer books, the distinction between first and later printings is not always that important to most collectors. For example, the first printings for both Bagley's _Blood of the Prophets_ and Given's _By the Hand of Mormon_ have sold out at their respective publishers. Yet, I would be surprised if either first printing greatly exceeds the value of a second printing any time soon. On the other hand, in the modern fiction collectors' market, first printings are EVERYTHING. Of course, some ardent Mormon collectors also insist on first printings. In either case, I recently encountered a book that shows how very difficult identifying a first printing can be. A first novel _You Are Not a Stranger Here_ by Adam Haslett, a Yale Law School student, was recently nominated for the National Book Award and was chosen by last year's winner for the Today Show Book Club. As a result, the first printing was relatively small, but the next printing was huge. Unfortunately, the second printing looks like a first printing and could fool even the most astute observer, absent a comparison with the true first printing. In the first printing, the last 3 lines of the copyright page read: "August 2002 / FIRST PRINTING / 1 3 5 7 9 10 8 6 4 2" The second printing deletes the first 2 of these lines, but keeps the last line intact, INCLUDING (unfortunately) the "1". Comparing the two, it is obvious which is the first printing, but alone, the second printing looks very much like a first. If you are interested, I have a copy of both pages on the following link: http://www.angelfire.com/ut2/psbooks/FIRST_PRINTING_copy1.JPG Now for my question---typically we use the word "state" to distinguish different copies of a book from the same printing. As I understand it, the concept is that the printing presses stopped and a correction was made. In this case, however, it is clear that the book I have called the "second state" is really a second printing. But to follow that designation would mean that when you look at the number line for later printings, you would have to always add one to the number to get it right. With this in mind, should the second book in this example be called a SECOND PRINTING or a SECOND STATE of the FIRST PRINTING? Trivial, I know, but such are the thoughts of the biblio-obsessed. Brian --part1_7f.2ddb0091.2ae4a3c4_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In the Mormon market, at least for newer books, the distinction between first and later printings is not always that important to most collectors.  For example, the first printings for both Bagley's _Blood of the Prophets_ and Given's _By the Hand of Mormon_ have sold out at their respective publishers. Yet, I would be surprised if either first printing greatly exceeds the value of a second printing any time soon. On the other hand, in the modern fiction collectors' market, first printings are EVERYTHING. Of course, some ardent Mormon collectors also insist on first printings.

In either case, I recently encountered a book that shows how very difficult identifying a first printing can be. A first novel _You Are Not a Stranger  Here_ by Adam Haslett, a Yale Law School student, was recently nominated for the National Book Award and was chosen by last year's winner for the Today Show Book Club. As a result, the first printing was relatively small, but the next printing was huge. Unfortunately, the second printing looks like a first printing and could fool even the most astute observer, absent a comparison with the true first printing. In the first printing, the last 3 lines of the copyright page read: "August 2002 / FIRST PRINTING / 1 3  5 7 9 10 8 6 4 2"  The second printing deletes the first 2 of these lines, but keeps the last line intact, INCLUDING (unfortunately) the "1". Comparing the two, it is obvious which is the first printing, but alone, the second printing looks very much like a first. If you are interested, I have a copy of both pages on the following link: http://www.angelfire.com/ut2/psbooks/FIRST_PRINTING_copy1.JPG

Now for my question---typically we use the word "state" to distinguish different copies  of a book from the same printing. As I understand it, the concept is that the printing presses stopped and a correction was made. In this case, however, it is clear that the book I have called the "second state" is really a second printing. But to follow that designation would mean that when you look at the number line for later printings, you would have to always add one to the number to get it right. With this in mind, should the second book in this example be called a SECOND PRINTING or a SECOND STATE of the FIRST PRINTING? Trivial, I know, but such are the thoughts of the biblio-obsessed.

Brian
 --part1_7f.2ddb0091.2ae4a3c4_boundary-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Eccles" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] DAllas area Date: 22 Oct 2002 15:41:59 -0700 It looks like I'm moving to Dallas in lthe next few weeks. Actually, I'm due back there on Monday and my wife will follow me sometime between Thanksgiving and New Year. We have our first grandchild on the way and she wants to stay back for that. My question is what are the good book sources in Dallas or Texas in general. I guess that could be expanded to include Oklahoma City and other areas that are commutable from Dallas for a weekend end excursion. Anyone have any suggestions? --Steve - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "zoot" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] DAllas area Date: 22 Oct 2002 18:55:29 -0500 As soon as you find them, Steve, let me know. I live in Houston. I will gladly pick up whatever items you find that are valuable, and let you look at them as they sit on my shelves. Dennis Nelson WELCOME TO TEXAS,Y'ALL!! -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Steve Eccles Sent: Tuesday, October 22, 2002 5:42 PM It looks like I'm moving to Dallas in lthe next few weeks. Actually, I'm due back there on Monday and my wife will follow me sometime between Thanksgiving and New Year. We have our first grandchild on the way and she wants to stay back for that. My question is what are the good book sources in Dallas or Texas in general. I guess that could be expanded to include Oklahoma City and other areas that are commutable from Dallas for a weekend end excursion. Anyone have any suggestions? --Steve - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] FIRST PRINTINGS--Comments and a Question Date: 22 Oct 2002 19:35:46 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C27A02.3B0B8850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 2nd printing. That they screwed up the numbers doesn't change the fact that it was a different print run. Or am I missing something? -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BJRom@aol.com Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 4:27 PM In the Mormon market, at least for newer books, the distinction between first and later printings is not always that important to most collectors. For example, the first printings for both Bagley's _Blood of the Prophets_ and Given's _By the Hand of Mormon_ have sold out at their respective publishers. Yet, I would be surprised if either first printing greatly exceeds the value of a second printing any time soon. On the other hand, in the modern fiction collectors' market, first printings are EVERYTHING. Of course, some ardent Mormon collectors also insist on first printings. In either case, I recently encountered a book that shows how very difficult identifying a first printing can be. A first novel _You Are Not a Stranger Here_ by Adam Haslett, a Yale Law School student, was recently nominated for the National Book Award and was chosen by last year's winner for the Today Show Book Club. As a result, the first printing was relatively small, but the next printing was huge. Unfortunately, the second printing looks like a first printing and could fool even the most astute observer, absent a comparison with the true first printing. In the first printing, the last 3 lines of the copyright page read: "August 2002 / FIRST PRINTING / 1 3 5 7 9 10 8 6 4 2" The second printing deletes the first 2 of these lines, but keeps the last line intact, INCLUDING (unfortunately) the "1". Comparing the two, it is obvious which is the first printing, but alone, the second printing looks very much like a first. If you are interested, I have a copy of both pages on the following link: http://www.angelfire.com/ut2/psbooks/FIRST_PRINTING_copy1.JPG Now for my question---typically we use the word "state" to distinguish different copies of a book from the same printing. As I understand it, the concept is that the printing presses stopped and a correction was made. In this case, however, it is clear that the book I have called the "second state" is really a second printing. But to follow that designation would mean that when you look at the number line for later printings, you would have to always add one to the number to get it right. With this in mind, should the second book in this example be called a SECOND PRINTING or a SECOND STATE of the FIRST PRINTING? Trivial, I know, but such are the thoughts of the biblio-obsessed. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C27A02.3B0B8850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2nd = printing.  That they screwed up the numbers doesn’t change the fact that it = was a different print run.  Or am I missing something?

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BJRom@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, October 20, = 2002 4:27 PM
To: = lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] = FIRST PRINTINGS--Comments and a Question

 

In the Mormon market, at = least for newer books, the distinction between first and later printings is not = always that important to most collectors.  For example, the first = printings for both Bagley's _Blood of the Prophets_ and Given's _By the Hand of = Mormon_ have sold out at their respective publishers. Yet, I would be surprised if = either first printing greatly exceeds the value of a second printing any time = soon. On the other hand, in the modern fiction collectors' market, first = printings are EVERYTHING. Of course, some ardent Mormon collectors also insist on = first printings.

In either case, I recently encountered a book that shows how very = difficult identifying a first printing can be. A first novel _You Are Not a Stranger  Here_ by Adam Haslett, a Yale Law School student, was = recently nominated for the National Book Award and was chosen by last year's = winner for the Today Show Book Club. As a result, the first printing was relatively = small, but the next printing was huge. Unfortunately, the second printing looks = like a first printing and could fool even the most astute observer, absent a comparison with the true first printing. In the first printing, the last = 3 lines of the copyright page read: "August 2002 / FIRST PRINTING / 1 3  5 7 9 10 8 6 4 2"  The second printing deletes the = first 2 of these lines, but keeps the last line intact, INCLUDING (unfortunately) = the "1". Comparing the two, it is obvious which is the first = printing, but alone, the second printing looks very much like a first. If you are = interested, I have a copy of both pages on the following link: http://www.angelfire.com/ut2/psbooks/FIRST_PRINTING_copy1.JPG

Now for my question---typically we use the word "state" to distinguish different copies  of a book from the same printing. As = I understand it, the concept is that the printing presses stopped and a correction was made. In this case, however, it is clear that the book I = have called the "second state" is really a second printing. But to = follow that designation would mean that when you look at the number line for = later printings, you would have to always add one to the number to get it = right. With this in mind, should the second book in this example be called a SECOND PRINTING or a SECOND STATE of the FIRST PRINTING? Trivial, I know, but = such are the thoughts of the biblio-obsessed.

Brian

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C27A02.3B0B8850-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJRom@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] FIRST PRINTINGS--Comments and a Question Date: 23 Oct 2002 18:36:18 EDT --part1_3a.2e3a6467.2ae87e62_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Keith, No, I don't think you are missing anything. My question goes more to the=20 foundational issue of whether the distinction between states and printings=20 really has much meaning in the real world anymore. Obviously collectors=20 continue to use those terms to distinguish between books. But the methodolog= y=20 used in publishing and printing often make those distinctions academic, if=20 not archaic. In the modern world of publishing the whole concept of "print=20 run" is rather ambiguous. Frequently, a national publisher will use several=20 different printers to print the same book. Those print runs may happen=20 concurrently or staggered. Often, the designation of a second or later=20 printing is little more than an artificial publisher accounting procedure=20 based on profit projections and targets. For example, when a book hits=20 bestseller lists, the so-called "print-runs" often are set at some=20 predetermined quantity per printing, even though the presses don't really=20 stop between them (other than to remove the digit). In this electronic age,=20 changes to a book can be made "in the twinkling of an eye." As a result, it= =20 is sometimes hard, if not impossible, to distinguish between stopping the=20 presses to make a change and stopping the presses to start another printing.= =20 The only difference is whether the publisher decided to take another printin= g=20 number off of the copyright page at that moment. For the particular book I=20 mentioned, my understanding is that the publisher had preset a printing=20 quantity for the book's release. As that printing was proceeding (but not=20 finished), Good Morning America notified them that the book had been chosen=20 for its reading group. The publisher "stopped the presses" to put the GMA=20 logo on the dj and take the "FIRST EDITION" off of the copyright page. Of=20 course, the publisher did this intentionally. I seriously doubt the publishe= r=20 will suddenly delete both the 1 and the 2 before the next "printing." This=20 means that for all such books (and I am aware of 3 or 4 others currently in=20 release with this same situation), the printing number in the book will no=20 longer match the correct printing. Yet, if you ask the publisher which=20 printing the book is in, it will undoubtedly refer you to the number line. =20= I=20 believe this has happened recently because of all of the takeovers among=20 major publishers of different imprints, especially when Random House takes=20 over an imprint. They seem to combine their own "First Edition" practice=20 with the number line practice of the acquired imprint. I realize all of this= =20 is much ado about nothing, but then Keith has already called me a=20 "biblio-nerd," a designation I carry with pride! Brian In a message dated 10/22/2002 8:36:22 PM Mountain Daylight Time,=20 irwinkw@earthlink.net writes: > 2nd printing. That they screwed up the numbers doesn=E2=80=99t change the= fact that=20 > it was a different print run. Or am I missing something? >=20 >=20 --part1_3a.2e3a6467.2ae87e62_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en Keith,

No, I don't think you are missing anything. My question goes more to the fou= ndational issue of whether the distinction between states and printings real= ly has much meaning in the real world anymore.  Obviously collectors co= ntinue to use those terms to distinguish between books. But the methodology=20= used in publishing and printing often make those distinctions academic, if n= ot archaic. In the modern world of publishing the whole concept of "print ru= n" is rather ambiguous. Frequently, a national publisher will use several di= fferent printers to print the same book. Those print runs may happen concurr= ently or staggered. Often, the designation of a second or later printing is=20= little more than an artificial publisher accounting procedure based on profi= t projections and targets. For example, when a book hits bestseller lists, t= he so-called "print-runs" often are set at some predetermined quantity per p= rinting, even though the presses don't really stop between them (other than=20= to remove the digit). In this electronic age, changes to a book can be made=20= "in the twinkling of an eye."  As a result, it is sometimes hard, if no= t impossible, to distinguish between stopping the presses to make a change a= nd stopping the presses to start another printing. The only difference is wh= ether the publisher decided to take another printing number off of the copyr= ight page at that moment. For the particular book I mentioned, my understand= ing is that the publisher had preset a printing quantity for the book's rele= ase. As that printing was proceeding (but not finished), Good Morning Americ= a notified them that the book had been chosen for its reading group.  T= he publisher "stopped the presses" to put the GMA logo on the dj and take th= e "FIRST EDITION" off of the copyright page. Of course, the publisher did th= is intentionally. I seriously doubt the publisher will suddenly delete both=20= the 1 and the 2 before the next "printing." This means that for all such boo= ks (and I am aware of 3 or 4 others currently in release with this same situ= ation), the printing number in the book will no longer match the correct pri= nting. Yet, if you ask the publisher which printing the book is in, it will=20= undoubtedly refer you to the number line.  I believe this has happened=20= recently because of all of the takeovers among major publishers of different= imprints, especially when Random House takes over an imprint.  They se= em to combine their own "First Edition" practice with the number line practi= ce of the acquired imprint. I realize all of this is much ado about nothing,= but then Keith has already called me a "biblio-nerd," a designation I carry= with pride!

Brian


In a message dated 10/22/2002 8:36:22 PM Mountain Daylight Time, irwinkw@ear= thlink.net writes:


2nd printing.  That they screwed up the numbers doesn= =E2=80=99t change the fact that it was a different print run.  Or am I=20= missing something?



 --part1_3a.2e3a6467.2ae87e62_boundary-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] FIRST PRINTINGS--Comments and a Question Date: 23 Oct 2002 20:48:14 EDT In a message dated 10/23/02 6:37:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BJRom@aol.com writes: << . . . the methodology used in publishing and printing often make those distinctions academic, if not archaic. In the modern world of publishing the whole concept of "print run" is rather ambiguous. . . . it is sometimes hard, if not impossible, to distinguish between stopping the presses to make a change and stopping the presses to start another printing. The only difference is whether the publisher decided to take another printing number off of the copyright page at that moment. >> In the end, I hope that the thing which distinguishes book collecting from numismatics or philately, baseball card collecting, and the like - is content. When I see an expensive leather binding slapped on a large-run trade book printed by normal mechanics on ordinary paper, I can only ask, "Why?, why!, why?" The concept of limited editions and extra-good bindings should lie, at the heart of the motivation, in the difficulty and quality of production, such as fine hand-press work, or extraordinarily high-quality hand-made paper (thus limiting the number of copies which could be produced, and the importance of housing and preserving the text-block in a superlative manner, as with the Kelmscott Chaucer or the Doves Bible). If we worry about things which do not apply to a particular book's station in life, it becomes artificial, in my mind. As Brian suggests, such an artificiality may apply to our efforts to hold onto anachronistic terms and concepts with modern, simultaneous, mish-mash printings. A collector of first-edition fiction from the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries naturally wants the first, first, first (First edition, first issue, first state). An old history book may also be so identified and preferred, yet to magnify the purpose for which such a book was written and produced, it presumably got better with each change and correction, so that the serious collector may care more for its third than its first edition. There is nothing sacred about "FIRST." But there is everything sacred about "BEST." And so with modern productions, there may also be a separate category of criteria. Try this: If the print run is so large and so technological that there is no way accurately to establish absolute first issue and state, then how can it ever be rare enough for such a distinction to matter anyway? Rather like the mass-produced stamp rarities produced and offered by our Post Office all year long? Can we really get excited to own one of the first 3,000 out of 20,000 printed? Just rambling! There is no right or wrong on such a subject, only preferences, and I have suggested mine. Rick - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] FIRST PRINTINGS--Comments and a Question Date: 24 Oct 2002 13:28:59 -0500 Rick, Your comments are well taken. I have another question to further muddy the waters. You mention "an expensive leather binding slapped on a large-run trade book printed by normal mechanics on ordinary paper". Should this even be classified as "limited edition", or is it not even another edition, but rather a binding variant? i have also heard that sometimes when making these "limited editions" whoever is producing them strips off the old binding and then puts on the new leather binding. Should such a book then be described as "re-bound"? Mark -----Original Message----- Sent: 10/23/2002 7:48 PM In a message dated 10/23/02 6:37:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, BJRom@aol.com writes: << . . . the methodology used in publishing and printing often make those distinctions academic, if not archaic. In the modern world of publishing the whole concept of "print run" is rather ambiguous. . . . it is sometimes hard, if not impossible, to distinguish between stopping the presses to make a change and stopping the presses to start another printing. The only difference is whether the publisher decided to take another printing number off of the copyright page at that moment. >> In the end, I hope that the thing which distinguishes book collecting from numismatics or philately, baseball card collecting, and the like - is content. When I see an expensive leather binding slapped on a large-run trade book printed by normal mechanics on ordinary paper, I can only ask, "Why?, why!, why?" The concept of limited editions and extra-good bindings should lie, at the heart of the motivation, in the difficulty and quality of production, such as fine hand-press work, or extraordinarily high-quality hand-made paper (thus limiting the number of copies which could be produced, and the importance of housing and preserving the text-block in a superlative manner, as with the Kelmscott Chaucer or the Doves Bible). If we worry about things which do not apply to a particular book's station in life, it becomes artificial, in my mind. As Brian suggests, such an artificiality may apply to our efforts to hold onto anachronistic terms and concepts with modern, simultaneous, mish-mash printings. A collector of first-edition fiction from the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries naturally wants the first, first, first (First edition, first issue, first state). An old history book may also be so identified and preferred, yet to magnify the purpose for which such a book was written and produced, it presumably got better with each change and correction, so that the serious collector may care more for its third than its first edition. There is nothing sacred about "FIRST." But there is everything sacred about "BEST." And so with modern productions, there may also be a separate category of criteria. Try this: If the print run is so large and so technological that there is no way accurately to establish absolute first issue and state, then how can it ever be rare enough for such a distinction to matter anyway? Rather like the mass-produced stamp rarities produced and offered by our Post Office all year long? Can we really get excited to own one of the first 3,000 out of 20,000 printed? Just rambling! There is no right or wrong on such a subject, only preferences, and I have suggested mine. Rick - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] FIRST PRINTINGS--Comments and a Question Date: 24 Oct 2002 21:32:28 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C27BA4.DD968F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Brian My alternate e-mail address is biblionerd@yahoo.com. So I'm not only a biblionerd, but a yahoo as well. Keith -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BJRom@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 2:36 PM .. I realize all of this is much ado about nothing, but then Keith has already called me a "biblio-nerd," a designation I carry with pride! Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C27BA4.DD968F40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Brian

 

My alternate e-mail address is biblionerd@yahoo.com.  So = I’m not only a biblionerd, but a yahoo as well.

 

Keith

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BJRom@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October = 23, 2002 2:36 PM
To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: = [LDS-Bookshelf] FIRST PRINTINGS--Comments and a Question

 

…. I realize all of this is much ado about nothing, but then Keith has = already called me a "biblio-nerd," a designation I carry with = pride!

Brian



------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C27BA4.DD968F40-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] FW: submission from ["Hugh Stocks" ] Date: 24 Oct 2002 21:34:56 -0700 From Hugh Stocks: Sorry to bother the serious readers hereon, but I seem to have mislaid the First Hugh's current email address. As some/all of you may be aware, I have recently (a week ago, actually) relocated to the hills of Northern Kentucky. Well, actually, to the Kentucky suburbs of Cincinnati, OH, but it amoounts to the same thing. So -- First, I need to have my email address redirected for the voluminous conversations of the bookshelf list. I am now virtually located at hstocks@fuse.net. Second, I'm interested in recommendations for antiquarian, rare or good used book stores in the Cincinnati region. I doubt there are any in Northern Kentucky, since I can't find even a Barnes and Noble anywhere near. Third, we now have a usable, attractive guest room in our new home and traveling booknerds are cordially invited to occupy it at need or desire. We're only about 20 minutes from the Cincinnati airport (which, of course, is in Kentucky --- as is the Cincinnati Stake center and the Cincinnati Mission home). And now, back to the questions of statefulness and the value of leather bindings.... Hugh the Peripatetic -- Hugh Stocks hstocks@fuse.net - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] FIRST PRINTINGS--Comments and a Question Date: 25 Oct 2002 12:12:09 EDT In a message dated 10/24/02 2:29:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, EdlundMarkJ@uams.edu writes: << I have another question to further muddy the waters. You mention "an expensive leather binding slapped on a large-run trade book printed by normal mechanics on ordinary paper". Should this even be classified as "limited edition", or is it not even another edition, but rather a binding variant? i have also heard that sometimes when making these "limited editions" whoever is producing them strips off the old binding and then puts on the new leather binding. Should such a book then be described as "re-bound"? >> To my way of thinking, certainly, that is all that these are. It is understandable that an excited new author might have his or her binder put a few copies in a nice binding for family and friends, and I would call those "privately rebound as presentation copies." Rick - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Cahoon Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] DAllas area Date: 26 Oct 2002 08:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Good for you Steve. I recently spent 4 years with my family in Dallas (Plano). I finally had to move back because I missed mountains and seasons. :^) There is a used bookstore in Denton (north west of Dallas) that I found a few items. There is also Half-Price bookstores all over the Metro-Plex - but the finds there were few and far between. Just a couple of blocks north of the temple there is/was a Moon's bookstore that changed to a Seagull and when I left a couple of years ago it was back to being a Moon's. They had some nice finds - but were a little pricey. Don't forget to head to SMU and see the Book of Commandments they have there! Good Luck! --Doug > > -----Original Message----- > > It looks like I'm moving to Dallas in lthe next few > weeks. Actually, I'm > due > back there on Monday and my wife will follow me > sometime between > Thanksgiving and New Year. We have our first > grandchild on the way and > she > wants to stay back for that. > > My question is what are the good book sources in > Dallas or Texas in > general. > I guess that could be expanded to include Oklahoma > City and other areas > that > are commutable from Dallas for a weekend end > excursion. > > Anyone have any suggestions? > > --Steve > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] FIRST PRINTINGS--Comments and a Question Date: 28 Oct 2002 10:46:02 -0600 What has surprised me recently is the sheer number of titles that are in done a limited edition. Buying all of these limited editions can be a surprisingly expensive proposition. Here are some titles of this genre that have appeared this year, or will appear shortly: 1) Church employee gift. I would guess you can get one for $50 to $100. 2) Some titles by Greg Kofford Books a. Lucy Mack Smith bio of Joseph Smith. $160. b. "Penny Tracts and Polemics". $160 c. Bio of Hugh Nibley. $160 d. "People and Power of Nauvoo". $160 e. "A House for the Most High: The Story of the Original Nauvoo Temple". $160 3) Signature Books version of Quinn's J. Reuben Clark book. This was not bound, but rather produced in a clamshell case. I believe some were sold by Signature for about $250. 4) Benchmark Book's edition of the Godell (sic?) book. I think this was $300. 5) Benchmark Book's edition of Blood of the Prophets. $400. 6) Arthur H. Clark's newest volume in the Kingdom in the West Series is supposed to be out in the next few weeks. $150. To buy these books would be around $2100, including tax. Perhaps Deseret Book, Grandin, Greg Kofford Books, Signature, or someone else has done some that I have missed. I would be interested if anyone knows of others. Mark Edlund -----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 11:12 AM In a message dated 10/24/02 2:29:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, EdlundMarkJ@uams.edu writes: << I have another question to further muddy the waters. You mention "an expensive leather binding slapped on a large-run trade book printed by normal mechanics on ordinary paper". Should this even be classified as "limited edition", or is it not even another edition, but rather a binding variant? i have also heard that sometimes when making these "limited editions" whoever is producing them strips off the old binding and then puts on the new leather binding. Should such a book then be described as "re-bound"? >> To my way of thinking, certainly, that is all that these are. It is understandable that an excited new author might have his or her binder put a few copies in a nice binding for family and friends, and I would call those "privately rebound as presentation copies." Rick - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com"