From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] PLEASE READ - Important message from Hugh and Keith Date: 09 Jan 2003 20:34:24 -0800 Ardent bookshelfers may have noted the recent article in BYU studies = titled "Which are the Most Important Mormon Books." The author, Arnold Garr, surveyed 412 scholars who "teach, research, and write" in the field of Mormonism and asked them to name the most important Mormon books in = several categories. The largest number of respondents, obviously, came from = Church universities and CES personnel. =20 Though we don't fit the definition of his survey sample, I dare say that Grand Noble Bookshelfers are at least as knowledgeable about this = subject as the august scholars. So we asked Arnie Garr if he would allow us to complete his survey for comparison purposes. We offered to distribute = the survey and tabulate the results. He graciously sent us a copy of the survey. Now comes the interesting part - Hugh and I have surmised that since we = have not heard from many of you at all, it is possible that you may be dead. = We feel that to produce solid results, it will be good to hear from those = who have passed through the veil as well as those still among the living. = So Keith is going to send the survey to each of you by e-mail. Since we = are small in number, it is important that each of you take 15 minutes to complete the survey and return it to Keith In order to get good participation, Brother Garr enlisted the aid of = John Welch to "encourage" participation from his sample. We don't have that = kind of clout. So instead, if we don't get a response to the survey, we're = going assume that after you passed through the veil, you were found with a = yellow highlighter and were promptly consigned to hell. And we certainly don't want any hellish characters hanging around bookshelf, so non-respondents will be excommunicated from the 'Shelf. So......redeem yourselves, show us you're alive, contribute to science, = and return the survey promptly. Results will be tabulated and posted to LDS-Bookshelf. Keith & Hugh Bookshelf Custodians - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJRom@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] PLEASE READ - Important message from Hugh and Keith Date: 10 Jan 2003 01:19:38 EST --part1_69.3317a30a.2b4fbffa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith, I have 4 questions: 1. Under which category, if any, should we put original source materials, especially diaries and journals, but also compilations of documents? 2. Are we supposed to "respond only in the categories [we] know best" as instructed by the survey? 3. Was the BYU Studies survey totally open-ended or did they influence the results by providing a list from which to choose? 4. It appears that the criteria requires that BOTH the author and subject-matter be Mormon. Is this correct? For example, what of a non-Mormon historian writing about Mormon history or a Mormon fiction author writing about non-Mormon subjects? Thanks, Brian In a message dated 1/9/2003 9:35:12 PM Mountain Standard Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes: > Ardent bookshelfers may have noted the recent article in BYU studies titled > "Which are the Most Important Mormon Books." The author, Arnold Garr, > surveyed 412 scholars who "teach, research, and write" in the field of > Mormonism and asked them to name the most important Mormon books in several > categories. The largest number of respondents, obviously, came from Church > universities and CES personnel. > --part1_69.3317a30a.2b4fbffa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith,

I have 4 questions:

1. Under which category, if any, should we put original source materials, especially diaries and journals, but also compilations of documents?

2.  Are we supposed to "respond only in the categories [we] know best" as instructed by the survey?

3.  Was the BYU Studies survey totally open-ended or did they influence the results by providing a list from which to choose?

4.  It appears that the criteria requires that BOTH the author and subject-matter be Mormon.  Is this correct?  For example, what of a non-Mormon historian writing about Mormon history or a Mormon fiction author writing about non-Mormon subjects?

Thanks,

Brian

In a message dated 1/9/2003 9:35:12 PM Mountain Standard Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes:

Ardent bookshelfers may have noted the recent article in BYU studies titled
"Which are the Most Important Mormon Books."  The author, Arnold Garr,
surveyed 412 scholars who "teach, research, and write" in the field of
Mormonism and asked them to name the most important Mormon books in several
categories.  The largest number of respondents, obviously, came from Church
universities and CES personnel. 


--part1_69.3317a30a.2b4fbffa_boundary-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] PLEASE READ - Important message from Hugh and Keith Date: 09 Jan 2003 22:51:10 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C2B831.9DE58C10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 1. There is no direction on this. I included diaries and journals as "biography." But you choose. 2. Bookshelfers are knowledgeable in all categories or else you wouldn't be bookshelfers. Respond to all. 3. The survey I sent is an exact copy of the text. Open ended. 4. Yes. Both author and subject matter must be LDS. I found this constraining. For example, I'd consider Wallace Stegner and Mark Twain = as having written important Mormon fiction but they may not be considered = for this survey until their temple work is done. If we are going to compare = our results with the BYU studies survey, we must remain consistent. When = this is all over, perhaps we can set some new categories, for example, Books = on Mormon books. =20 =20 Now, is "The Sex Life of Brigham Young" history, fiction, or inspirational??? =20 Keith =20 -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of = BJRom@aol.com Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:20 PM and Keith =20 Keith, I have 4 questions: 1. Under which category, if any, should we put original source = materials, especially diaries and journals, but also compilations of documents? 2. Are we supposed to "respond only in the categories [we] know best" = as instructed by the survey? 3. Was the BYU Studies survey totally open-ended or did they influence = the results by providing a list from which to choose? 4. It appears that the criteria requires that BOTH the author and subject-matter be Mormon. Is this correct? For example, what of a non-Mormon historian writing about Mormon history or a Mormon fiction = author writing about non-Mormon subjects? Thanks, Brian In a message dated 1/9/2003 9:35:12 PM Mountain Standard Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes: Ardent bookshelfers may have noted the recent article in BYU studies = titled "Which are the Most Important Mormon Books." The author, Arnold Garr, surveyed 412 scholars who "teach, research, and write" in the field of Mormonism and asked them to name the most important Mormon books in = several categories. The largest number of respondents, obviously, came from = Church universities and CES personnel. =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C2B831.9DE58C10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
  1. There is no direction on this.  I included diaries and journals as = “biography.”  But you choose.
  2. Bookshelfers are = knowledgeable in all categories or else you wouldn’t be bookshelfers.  Respond to all.
  3. The survey I sent is = an exact copy of the text.  Open ended.
  4. Yes.  Both author = and subject matter must be LDS.  I found this constraining.  = For example, I’d consider Wallace Stegner and Mark Twain as = having written important Mormon fiction but they may not be considered for = this survey until their temple work is done.  If we are going to = compare our results with the BYU studies survey, we must remain = consistent.  When this is all over, perhaps we can set some new categories, for example, Books on Mormon books.  

 

Now, is “The Sex Life of = Brigham Young” history, fiction, or inspirational??? = <grin>

 

Keith

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: = owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of BJRom@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January = 09, 2003 10:20 PM
To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: = [LDS-Bookshelf] PLEASE READ - Important message from Hugh and Keith

 

Keith,

I have 4 questions:

1. Under which category, if any, should we put original source = materials, especially diaries and journals, but also compilations of documents?

2.  Are we supposed to "respond only in the categories [we] = know best" as instructed by the survey?

3.  Was the BYU Studies survey totally open-ended or did they = influence the results by providing a list from which to choose?

4.  It appears that the criteria requires that BOTH the author and subject-matter be Mormon.  Is this correct?  For example, what = of a non-Mormon historian writing about Mormon history or a Mormon fiction = author writing about non-Mormon subjects?

Thanks,

Brian

In a message dated 1/9/2003 9:35:12 PM Mountain Standard Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes:


Ardent bookshelfers may = have noted the recent article in BYU studies titled
"Which are the Most Important Mormon Books."  The author, = Arnold Garr,
surveyed 412 scholars who "teach, research, and write" in the = field of
Mormonism and asked them to name the most important Mormon books in = several
categories.  The largest number of respondents, obviously, came = from Church
universities and CES personnel. 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C2B831.9DE58C10-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Date: 10 Jan 2003 15:51:53 -0800 I've received 5 surveys so far. Take a few minutes this weekend and = return your survey to me. Since our group is small, we need a good response = rate. Keith - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Date: 11 Jan 2003 16:32:03 EST In a message dated 1/10/03 1:51:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes: << Bookshelfers are knowledgeable in all categories or else you wouldn't be bookshelfers. Respond to all. >> Sorry, Keith, but I am not qualified to respond in the fiction category, having read almost no book-length Mormon fiction. Maurine Whipple's THE GIANT JOSHUA should probably be high on the list, but other people will know better than I. In the other categories, I feel pretty good about responding, although in principle I don't truly believe in such lists. My choices are not, in every single case, books which I prefer or even admire. I listed books which I feel have been (or will be) most central and "important" in the formation of Mormon cultures, and in determining how Mormon cultures are observed, over long periods of time. My reason for emphasizing Dan Vogel's EARLY MORMON DOCUMENTS series is that it gives us, for the first time in our history, easy, organized and accurate access to nearly all the most original information extant about emergent Mormonism - in one place. This published archive allows us to see what was first recorded, and when, as opposed to the blending and altering of later versions and anthologies. I feel that its effect, over time, will be monumental. Rick Grunder Biography 1. Lucy Mack Smith, Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith, 1853 2. Andrew Jenson, The Historical Record, Vols. 5-9, 1886-90 3. James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, 1915 Doctrine 1. Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1958 2. Parley P. Pratt, A Voice of Warning, 1837 3. Orson Pratt, A Series of Pamphlets, 1851 Fiction 1. 2. 3. History 1. Dan Vogel, ed., Early Mormon Documents, 1996- 2. Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 1902-12, 1932 3. Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, 1945 Inspirational 1. Oliver Cowdery, Letters . . . to W. W. Phelps . . . , 1844. 2. Church. Hymnal, 1835 and later eds. 3. Smith, Eliza R. Snow, Poems, 1856, 1877 Which ONE book would you consider the most important overall? 1. Dan Vogel, ed., Early Mormon Documents, 1996- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Malcolm Vickery" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Date: 11 Jan 2003 14:43:37 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C2B97F.D3946C60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Keith... I know I mailed this to you the other day, But I'm posting this seperately to the list as I have thoroughly enjoyed reading each of the surveys. Hope the list will enjoy mine... or at least have a laugh! Best! Malcolm - Distinctive Books Biography: 1. History of Joseph Smith by His Mother. Lucy Mack Smith. 2. Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt. 3. Brigham Young, American Moses. Leonard Arrington. Doctrine 1. The Journal of Discourses. 26 Vols. 1852-1886. 2. Messages of the First Presidency. 6 Vols. Dean R. Clark. 3. Mormon Doctrine. 1st Edition 1958. Bruce R. McConkie. Fiction 1. Joseph Smith and the Devil. Parley P. Pratt. c1840. 2. Nightfall at Nauvoo. Samuel W. Taylor. 3. Saints. Orson Scott Card. History 1. The Documentary History of the Church. 2. Early Mormon Documents. 4 Vols. Dan Vogel. 3. Mormon Hierarchy - Origins of Power. D. Michael Quinn. Inspirational 1. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Edited by Joseph Fielding Smith. 1938. 2. Voice of Warning. Parley P. Pratt. 3. Which ONE book would you consider the most important overall? 1. The Journal of Discourses. 26 Vols. 1852-1886. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C2B97F.D3946C60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message

Keith... = I know I=20 mailed this to you the other day,

But I'm = posting this=20 seperately to the list as I have thoroughly enjoyed reading each of the=20 surveys.

Hope the = list will=20 enjoy mine... or at least have a laugh!

Best! = Malcolm -=20 Distinctive Books

Biography:

1. History of Joseph Smith by His Mother. = Lucy Mack=20 Smith.

2. Autobiography of Parley P. = Pratt.

3. Brigham Young, American Moses. Leonard = Arrington.

Doctrine

1. The Journal of Discourses. 26 Vols.=20 1852-1886.

2. Messages of the First Presidency. 6 = Vols. Dean R.=20 Clark.

3. Mormon Doctrine. 1st Edition 1958. = Bruce R.=20 McConkie.

Fiction

1. Joseph Smith and the Devil. Parley P. = Pratt.=20 c1840.

2. Nightfall at Nauvoo. Samuel W. = Taylor.

3. Saints. Orson Scott Card.

History

1. The Documentary History of the = Church.

2. Early Mormon Documents. 4 Vols. Dan=20 Vogel.

3. Mormon Hierarchy - Origins of Power. = D. Michael=20 Quinn.

Inspirational

1. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. = Edited by=20 Joseph Fielding Smith. 1938. 2. Voice of Warning. Parley P. Pratt. 3.=20

Which ONE book would you consider the = most important=20 overall?

1. The Journal of Discourses. 26 Vols.=20 1852-1886.

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0020_01C2B97F.D3946C60-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] WHOA! Date: 11 Jan 2003 16:58:59 -0800 Gang - Let's not post your individual responses to the list yet. We don't want to taint the viewpoint of those who have yet to respond. Next week, after I post the summary, each of you that want can post your responses and we can argue about them forever. Keith - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJRom@aol.com Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Re: God's Army in the Survey Date: 11 Jan 2003 20:39:00 EST --part1_1aa.eae8632.2b522134_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hugh, You dodged the bullet on God's Army qualifying because it IS a book, although not until after it was a movie. Actually, Dutcher hired Orson Scott Card's son, Geoffrey, to write the novelization. (His dad already had experience in this area novelizing The Abyss). I haven't read the book so I can't comment on how it compares to the film. If you're interested in more about the book and reviews of it, see http://www.ldsfilm.com/GA/GodsArmyNovel.html Cheers, Brian Romriell In a message dated 1/11/2003 5:54:02 PM Mountain Standard Time, hstocks@fuse.net writes: > > Fiction > 1. Giant Joshua - Whipple > 2. The Backslider - Petersen > 3. God's Army - Dutcher (yeah, I know it isn't a book, but.....) > -- > Hugh Stocks hstocks@fuse.net > > > > --part1_1aa.eae8632.2b522134_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hugh,

You dodged the bullet on God's Army qualifying because it IS a book, although not until after it was a movie.  Actually, Dutcher hired Orson Scott Card's son, Geoffrey, to write the novelization. (His dad already had experience in this area novelizing The Abyss). I haven't read the book so I can't comment on how it compares to the film.
If you're interested in more about the book and reviews of it, see http://www.ldsfilm.com/GA/GodsArmyNovel.html

Cheers,

Brian Romriell

In a message dated 1/11/2003 5:54:02 PM Mountain Standard Time, hstocks@fuse.net writes:

Fiction
1.  Giant Joshua - Whipple
2.  The Backslider - Petersen
3.  God's Army - Dutcher  (yeah, I know it isn't a book, but.....)
--
Hugh Stocks             hstocks@fuse.net
  




--part1_1aa.eae8632.2b522134_boundary-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey so far Date: 11 Jan 2003 20:44:54 -0800 Thus far I have received surveys from: Ken Sanders Joan Nay Rick Grunder Marshall Hamilton Hugh Stocks Malcolm Vickery Roy Schmidt Dennis "C" Davis Brian Romriel Doug Cahoon Keith Irwin Redeem yourselves! Send in your survey! - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Genuine Fakes Date: 12 Jan 2003 14:49:58 -0800 Normally we avoid promotion of businesses on the list but I thought I could post this without objection: Last Year Bookshelfer Ken Sanders held a seminar on the Hoffman forgeries that featured many of the people involved including George Throckmorton and even Doralee Hoffman. What I didn't know is that Ken videotaped the whole thing and the four volume set is available from him for $60. Drop Ken a note offline if you are interested. Keith - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hugh & Sandi McKell" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Genuine Fakes Date: 12 Jan 2003 19:54:32 -0700 Mr. Sanders is not the type of person to trifle with, as the following article will show... so post the promotion and do whatever else Mr. Sanders asks... He Ken I hope you were not hurt. What prompted such ferocity! Hugh http://www.sltrib.com/2003/jan/01082003/utah/18282.asp -----Original Message----- Normally we avoid promotion of businesses on the list but I thought I could post this without objection: Last Year Bookshelfer Ken Sanders held a seminar on the Hoffman forgeries that featured many of the people involved including George Throckmorton and even Doralee Hoffman. What I didn't know is that Ken videotaped the whole thing and the four volume set is available from him for $60. Drop Ken a note offline if you are interested. Keith - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Genuine F[l]akes Date: 12 Jan 2003 22:09:12 EST In a message dated 1/12/03 9:54:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, hjmckell@xmission.com writes: << He Ken I hope you were not hurt. What prompted such ferocity! >> My guess would be that Ken's "ferocity" was prompted by the sheer idiotic hypocrisy of someone stealing a picture of Jesus. I once sold a Whitmer Family seerstone to a gentleman in Utah who made me pledge never to tell his name, for fear that religious kooks might harm him or his family to get it. At least, that was how I understood his concerns. - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Malcolm Vickery" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Genuine F[l]akes Date: 12 Jan 2003 21:16:04 -0700 It's a pretty crazy world. Talking to one of the buyers for the BYU Bookstore, they told me that the one thing that got stolen the most from the bookstore was the quadruple combinations... Pretty sad huh? I heard similar reasons were why they decided to put locks on the lockers in the Temple changing rooms. Good for Ken though! He showed me the cuts on his hand and the glass on the road from the effort to get into the thieves car whilst it was driving away. I think he and Porter would have been good friends... Wouldn't you agree Ken? Malcolm - Distinctive Books -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of RickBook@aol.com Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 8:09 PM In a message dated 1/12/03 9:54:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, hjmckell@xmission.com writes: << He Ken I hope you were not hurt. What prompted such ferocity! >> My guess would be that Ken's "ferocity" was prompted by the sheer idiotic hypocrisy of someone stealing a picture of Jesus. I once sold a Whitmer Family seerstone to a gentleman in Utah who made me pledge never to tell his name, for fear that religious kooks might harm him or his family to get it. At least, that was how I understood his concerns. - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Sanders Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] A Tale Of A Purloined Christ Date: 13 Jan 2003 10:18:27 -0700 Dear LDS Bookshelfers, here's the original account I wrote of my Christ thief, an account I wrote to the ABAA trade list, of which I'm the security chair. I originally wrote it as my police report. I'll respond more fully when I have some time. Rolly & Wells in the Salt Lake Tribune baseed their account on the following. The error is George Ottinger's middle name is theirs, not mine. Sincerely, Ken Sanders Dear Colleagues, Despite the title of this missive, this is not a Christmas parable but rather one of today's thief de jour. At shortly after 2:00 PM this afternoon, a youngish (20's) male came into my shop and tried to sell me a handful of books. I didn't like his looks or his books so I declined to buy them. Rather than leaving, he set his books down and wanted to look around. That's when I made my first mistake. Rather than insisting he leave, I let him wander around, although I kept a wary eye on him while he was in the stacks. My daughter Melissa had to leave for a dental appointment at 2:30 and within a minute or so of her leaving (and him hearing the door open and close) he came to the front of the store (we were separated by a counter) and said something like..."you got some really cool things in here man" or some equally profound utterance. I didn't respond but rather watched him walk the final twenty feet to the front door, where instead of leaving he paused. He pulled a water color painting of Christ(yes, Jesus Christ himself) by a well known Utah artist, George Marion Ottinger, off the wall and walked out the door not realizing I had observed him stealing my painting and was in hot pursuit. By the time I cleared the front door, he was already getting in a white dodge sedan parked in front of the store with his (presumed girlfriend) at the wheel, motor running ( I'm referring to the car's engine here). She was Caucausian, medium build with shoulder length brown hair. He was mid twenties tall (6' 1"" ish), short cropped brown hair, some acne and quite skinny. He was wearing blue jeans and a blackish sweater. He slammed the door in my face as I grabbed for him and screamed at the female to get the hell out of there. I kicked the passenger door in frustration and then pounded on the passenger door windshield until I had beaten in the glass and ripped big chunks of it out of the way in an attempt to grab hold of my thief. By this time his female accomplice had shifted into gear and I was knocked down onto the grass strip next to the curb and my hands were bleeding. As I lay there amongst a quantity of broken automotive glass, I stared at the rear license plate of the car as it was speeding away and raced back in my now empty and abandoned shop, where I wrote the number down, and called 911. I gave them all the information emphasising they needed to be looking for a white dodge sedan with no passenger window and gave them the license plate number, which was 314 LYF Utah. I managed to upset the 911 operator in the process, she accused me of being rude, I pointed out to her rather than asking detailed questions that might wait until later, I was more concerned that she get some cops on the street looking for the white dodge sedan with the dented door and the smashed in window with my blood on it. She assured me they were on top of it. I apologised for any rude behavior on my part. I then locked the front door and gave chase to a few neighboring bookshops where I thought they might be trying to sell my painting. No luck there. Returning to my shop a detective was waiting for me and an employee had returned from lunch and reopened the store. The detective then took my statement and assured me that had patrol cars out looking for my thief. Approximately 30 minutes later, the detective returned and asked me to id the thief from his laptop computer in his squad car. It was the perp. We had him. Or at least knew who he was. As it turned out, not surpisingly, he had a rather lengthy arrest record and a outstanding warrant for his arrest. The police knew who he was and had a healthy interest in recapturing him. At 3:00 P.M., the phone rang and I happened to answer it..."your picture's at 47th South and Redwood Road. I'm really sorry man that I took something that you cared about so much." What's at Redwood Road and 47th South, I asked, "The Village Inn" the perp replied. Look, pal, I sez, i wrote down your license plate and the cops are already out looking for you,, they know who you are and where you live and you're going down for this. I may have added an "asshole" as an appendage to that last line. The perp then hung up on me. I star 69'ed the call and wrote the number down. I called police dispatch and left a message as to what had occurred and that I was enroute to the Village Inn to recover my painting. I borrowed an employee's cell phone so the detective could call me back while I was enroute if he so desired. The phone rang while I was driving down the freeway. I pulled over and stopped the truck prior to answering. I do not like cell phones and am normally loathe to even use them. It was Detective Miller returning my call. He agreed to try and send an officer from West Valley Police or the Salt Lake County Sheriff's dept. to the restaurant to meet me there. Redwood Road is in the southwestern portion of Salt Lake Valley. Formerly unincorporated towns, Granger and Hunter were formed into the third largest city in Utah with the striking and imaginative name of West Valley. Back when they were lobbying for names for the as yet unborn town I had lobbied for Grunter, or Greater Grunter, but my plea was never taken seriously. I felt that that name would be honoring the traditions of both the former towns of Granger and Hunter. After waiting a spell, I was met by a deputy sheriff in the parking lot of the Village Inn Pancake House. After a brief conversation we entered the restaurant and spoke to the host who procurred the manager for us. They knew nothing about the painting but did recall a tall skinny guy using the pay phone some time earlier. The painting, now in a smashed and broken frame was in a Walmart sack, left propped up against the wall. The sack had a receipt in it. The pay phone number in the foyer matched the number I had written down. I returned to the shop with my broken painting and Wal-Mart receipt. A crime lab photographer came by and shot the painting (with a camera, not a gun). Another detective just left here and took the Wal Mart receipt. I'm left with the painting, the sack, a lot of adrenalin, and a slightly bloodied hand. It only hurts when I type. -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clark Goble" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Bagley Redux Date: 15 Jan 2003 16:53:22 -0700 Possibly this has been discussed here. However have people discussed the recent review of Bagley in the newest Sunstone? It is available online as a PDF and is quite interesting. http://www.sunstoneonline.com/magazine/issues/125/briggs_more%20complete %20review%20for%20web.pdf - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Bagley Redux Date: 15 Jan 2003 16:27:27 -0800 Yeah, FINALLY a scholarly review of Blood of the Prophets. Mark Edlund pointed this out to me last night and I read it today. Many insightful points about the book, both positive and negative. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Clark Goble Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 3:53 PM Possibly this has been discussed here. However have people discussed the recent review of Bagley in the newest Sunstone? It is available online as a PDF and is quite interesting. http://www.sunstoneonline.com/magazine/issues/125/briggs_more%20complete %20review%20for%20web.pdf - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Please Read - Bookshelf Survey & 7 Deadly Sins Date: 15 Jan 2003 20:31:32 -0800 Fellow Bookshelfers: So far 18 out of 35 LDS-Bookshelfers have returned their surveys to me. Arnie Garr, author of the study, had John Welch available to put the arm = on recalcitrant respondents. All I have is my wit and a modicum of moral persuasion. =20 With only three days to go, I decided that those who have NOT responded = need me to play to their baser instincts. Accordingly, I have made pleas = based on each of the Seven Deadly Sins. I'm sure there is something here for = each of you. Please read and respond accordingly. PRIDE: Who knows more about Mormon books than LDS-Bookshelfers? Let's = show those silly Mormon Jesuits what a real list of important books looks = like. Add your vaunted knowledge of Mormon imprints to a survey that will make history. Be listed as a contributor to the true first edition of the LDS-BOOKSHELF list of Important Mormon Works SLOTH: I know! I know! It's work to think of these books. Ya gotta = drag out your list of collectible books. Then ya gotta think and think about each list. It takes time. But then you've got until Saturday to get it done, so do a little bit tonight and a little bit tomorrow and slowly = you'll get it done. Don't rush. You'll get it done eventually! ENVY: Those guys on the Church payroll have it made. I mean, just = feature sitting around with nothing to do but research special collections and = once in a while teach a class to obedient clean-shaven kids who worship and = adore you. What a life! Well, we may not have that kind of pampered = existence but let's at least show those lucky bums that we know more about = important Mormon books than they'll ever know. Get your list in today! GREED: It's OK to dream about owning every important book on your wish-list. Who could ever fault someone who was greedy for learning? = Being greedy for books is like being greedy for love. How can that be a sin? = Get your list of important books together and send it to Keith. Who knows, maybe someone will see your interest and send you one of the books? Go = for the gold! WRATH: LISTEN DAMMIT! I busted my butt to get permission to use this survey, distribute it to you numbskulls, and then spend my precious time tabulating the results and what do I get?? HALF OF YOU SIT ON YOUR = DUFFS AND DON'T RESPOND. I'm going to kick some fanny if you don't get those surveys in NOW! LUST: Imagine what it must have been like to have 27 women waiting each evening for your return! Where else but in Mormon books can you find = such salacious scenes or such imaginative ideas for seducing the heart of the fairer sex. Thinking of erotic Mormon books to list on the survey will tweak your magic twanger in a way you'll never forget. The only limits = are your own imagination and the 10 minutes it takes to complete the survey! GLUTTONY: It's only the few that know the true meaning of "Feasting on = the Words." True bookshelfers know that devouring books is even better than devouring chocolate. Be fat with books. Savor your collection by = listing your favorite morsels on the survey and returning it to Keith If none of those work, let me try one that is a time-honored Mormon tradition: GUILT: Look, Hugh and I went out on a limb and promised the BYU Studies author we'd share our numbers with him if he'd let us use his survey. = DON'T humiliate us by having to turn in data with a 50% response rate. After = all, Hugh and I pay for this list, handle all the administration, and you get = all the benefits. Get off your duff and help Hugh and me save face. Get = your survey in immediately! Cut off is Saturday. Thanks, Keith Bookshelf Janitor and survey compiler. - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Please Read - Bookshelf Survey & 7 Deadly Sins Date: 16 Jan 2003 01:01:41 EST In a message dated 1/15/03 11:32:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes: << Thinking of erotic Mormon books to list on the survey will tweak your magic twanger in a way you'll never forget. >> Not sure I fully understand, but I think I need a cigarette! And I don't even smoke . . . RickBook - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Please return the surveys Date: 17 Jan 2003 20:16:52 -0800 We're two responses short of a 73% return. That's the response rate from the BYU sample. With our passion for books, we ought to be the most responsive. If you haven't already done so, please do the survey today and return it by Saturday evening at the latest. Verrrrrry interesting results so far. And close enough in some categories that one more response could change the order of results. Thanks. I think this will make for some interesting discussions. Keith - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Please return the surveys Date: 18 Jan 2003 13:13:56 -0600 =A0Keith,=20 If it would help I would be more than happy to vote twice (g).=A0 For = several categories I had trouble narrowing it to 3 books anyway, so I = would like the chance to list another 3 books. Mark=20 -----Original Message----- Sent: 1/17/2003 10:16 PM We're two responses short of a 73% return. That's the response rate from the BYU sample. With our passion for books, we ought to be the most responsive. If you haven't already done so, please do the survey today and return = it by Saturday evening at the latest. Verrrrrry interesting results so far. And close enough in some categories that one more response could change the order of results. Thanks. I think this will make for some interesting discussions. Keith - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Irwin Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Selected Collections from the Archives of the Church... Date: 18 Jan 2003 14:40:43 -0700 Bookshelfers, Most of you do not know me, but I have been a long-time lurker to this email list. Keith's survey has served to pull me out of lurkdom. Hopefully, I will participate a little more in the future! Now that I have finally submitted my survey, I would like to find out if any you have plunked down your $1299 for your personal copy of Selected Collections from the Archives of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I think that this 74 DVD collection may well deserve the Most Important title, but I figured that if this survey is to compare results with the BYU Studies survey, it really wouldn't be fair, since it hadn't been officially announced when the original survey was distributed. If any of you have purchased the set, how user friendly is it? Is it easy to navigate? Was it distributed in a platform-neutral format? (In other words, did they use a Windows-only software program to navigate the images?) Is there any reason to worry that this might be a "limited edition" publication? Brian Irwin Currently "between jobs" Mac OS X user who hasn't YET pulled enough cash together to purchase his own set of Selected Collections to achieve Mormon Historical Nirvana. - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Sanders Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Book of Mormons on ebay Date: 20 Jan 2003 15:33:56 -0700 There are currently two Book of Mormons on ebay. One is allegedly being sold by a certain infamous LDS dealer/collector from the midwestern portion of the country. I realize Mormons don't gamble but would anyone care to wager odds on what the chances are of this auction coming to a succesful conclusion? It is my understanding this dealer has been booted off ebay in the past. -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Snow, Donald R." Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Selected Collections from the Archives of Date: 20 Jan 2003 21:25:52 -0700 I bought a copy of the new 74-DVD set from the Church Archives, but haven't had time to even boot it up yet. It has a copy of my g-grandfather's journal in it and I would probably have been willing to pay a lot just for his journal BTW, if any of you intend to buy the set, subscribe to BYU Studies first, since when I bought my copy I learned that if you are a subscriber you get a healthy discount ($100, iirc). The closest I have gotten to looking at the set is to OCR the printed introduction and table of contents for someone. Don Snow At 02:40 PM 1/18/2003, Brian Irwin wrote: >Bookshelfers, > >Most of you do not know me, but I have been a long-time lurker to this >email list. Keith's survey has served to pull me out of lurkdom. >Hopefully, I will participate a little more in the future! > >Now that I have finally submitted my survey, I would like to find out if >any you have plunked down your $1299 for your personal copy of Selected >Collections from the Archives of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day >Saints. > >I think that this 74 DVD collection may well deserve the Most Important >title, but I figured that if this survey is to compare results with the >BYU Studies survey, it really wouldn't be fair, since it hadn't been >officially announced when the original survey was distributed. > >If any of you have purchased the set, how user friendly is it? Is it easy >to navigate? Was it distributed in a platform-neutral format? (In other >words, did they use a Windows-only software program to navigate the >images?) Is there any reason to worry that this might be a "limited >edition" publication? > > >Brian Irwin >Currently "between jobs" Mac OS X user who hasn't YET pulled enough cash >together to purchase his own set of Selected Collections to achieve Mormon >Historical Nirvana. > > >---------------------------------------------------------- >- LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books >- To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with >- "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. >- For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" Dr. Donald R. Snow, Dept of Mathematics, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah 84602 (office phone) (801) 422-2366, (home phone) (801) 225-7123, snowd@math.byu.edu, drs31@juno.com -- temporarily on a Family History Mission at St. George Regional Family History Center, St. George, Utah (home phone in St. George ) (435) 673-1932 - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Results - Biography Date: 20 Jan 2003 20:23:28 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C0C1.CF93DB70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Friends: I printed this out in html to maintain the columns. Hopefully your e-mail readers will be able to make this out. I thought I'd post each section of the survey separately over the next couple of days in order to keep any discussion focused. There are two columns. The first is "points." This is the sum of the ratings given each book. 3 points were given to the first book each respondent listed, 2 points to the second, and 1 point for the third. The second column is a tally of how many times the book was listed, regardless of position. There were 29 Bookshelfers who responded. The biography section had the most agreement with the BYU studies survey. 14 of their top twenty were in our top 22. The most notable change in the rankings is the much higher "importance" we gave to Brodie's book. Any surprises? Anyone want to defend their choice? Did we miss anything? Title - Author Points Count Biography Biographical Sketches of JS - Smith 38 15 No Man Knows My History - Brodie 30 12 Brigham Young, American Moses - Arrington 14 8 Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt - Pratt 14 8 Wilford Woodruff Journals - Kenney 11 6 Jesus The Christ - Talmage 11 5 Joseph Smith First Mormon - Hill 8 3 Things in Heaven & Earth - Alexander 6 3 Wilford Woodruff - Cowley 5 2 Life of Heber C. Kimball - Whitney 4 2 JS & the Beginning of Mormonism - Bushman 4 3 Mormon Enigma - Newell 4 3 On the Mormon Frontier-Hosea Stout - Brooks 3 1 Hugh B. Brown, His Life & Thought - Campbell 2 1 The Historical Record - Jensen 2 1 Joseph Smith, An American Prophet - Evans 2 1 Adventures of a Church Historian - Arrington 2 1 Elder Statesman - Quinn 2 2 Life of Spencer W. Kimball - Kimball 2 2 John Doyle Lee - Brooks 2 1 LDS Biographical Encyclopedia - Jensen 2 2 In The World - Diaries of Reed Smoot - Smith 2 1 From Heart to Heart - Nelson 1 1 Wife No. 19 - Young 1 1 My Life's Review - Johnson 1 1 Sidney Rigdon, A Portrait of Religious Excess - VanW 1 1 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C0C1.CF93DB70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Friends:

 

I printed this out in html to maintain the columns. =  Hopefully your e-mail readers will be able to make this out.

 

I thought I’d post each section of the survey separately = over the next couple of days in order to keep any discussion = focused.

 

There are two columns.  The first is = “points.”  This is the sum of the ratings given each book.  3 points were = given to the first book each respondent listed, 2 points to the second, and 1 = point for the third.  The second column is a tally of how many times the book = was listed, regardless of position.  There were 29 Bookshelfers who = responded.

 

The biography section had the most agreement with the BYU = studies survey.  14 of their top twenty were in our top 22.  The most = notable change in the rankings is the much higher “importance” we = gave to Brodie’s book. 

 

Any surprises?  Anyone want to defend their choice?  = Did we miss anything?

 

 

Title - = Author

Points

Count

Biography

 

 

Biographical Sketches of JS - = Smith

38

15

No Man Knows My History - Brodie

30

12

Brigham Young, American Moses - = Arrington

14

8

Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt - = Pratt

14

8

Wilford Woodruff Journals - = Kenney

11

6

Jesus The Christ - Talmage

11

5

Joseph Smith First Mormon - Hill

8

3

Things in Heaven & Earth - = Alexander

6

3

Wilford Woodruff - Cowley

5

2

Life of Heber C. Kimball - = Whitney

4

2

JS & the Beginning of Mormonism - = Bushman

4

3

Mormon Enigma - Newell

4

3

On the Mormon Frontier-Hosea Stout - = Brooks

3

1

Hugh B. Brown, His Life & Thought - = Campbell

2

1

The Historical Record - Jensen

2

1

Joseph Smith, An American Prophet - = Evans

2

1

Adventures of a Church Historian - = Arrington

2

1

Elder Statesman - Quinn

2

2

Life of Spencer W. Kimball - = Kimball

2

2

John Doyle Lee - Brooks

2

1

LDS Biographical Encyclopedia - = Jensen

2

2

In The World - Diaries of Reed Smoot - = Smith

2

1

From Heart to Heart - Nelson

1

1

Wife No. 19 - Young

1

1

My Life's Review - Johnson

1

1

Sidney Rigdon, A Portrait of Religious Excess - = VanW

1

1

 

 

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C0C1.CF93DB70-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hugh Stocks" Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Results - Biography Date: 20 Jan 2003 12:05:08 -0500 Thanks, Keith. Glad to see we got a decent response. On first review, I guess I'm surprised that Mormon Enigma scored so low. Seemed to me to be a stronger contender than that. OTOH, I can't really argue against any in the top 10 (aside from a cavil about including raw materials like a set of journals amongst the biographies, and another cavil about treating JtheC as a biography, when it seems to me to be more accurately described as "doctrinal" or "devotional". Chacun a son gout, I guess. On 20 Jan 2003 at 20:23, Keith Irwin stepped forward and proclaimed: > > Friends: > > I printed this out in html to maintain the columns. Hopefully your > e-mail readers will be able to make this out. > > I thought I=99d post each section of the survey separately over the next > couple of days in order to keep any discussion focused. > > There are two columns. The first is =9Cpoints.=9DThis is the sum of the > ratings given each book. 3 points were given to the first book each > respondent listed, 2 points to the second, and 1 point for the third. > The second column is a tally of how many times the book was listed, > regardless of position. There were 29 Bookshelfers who responded. > > The biography section had the most agreement with the BYU studies > survey. 14 of their top twenty were in our top 22. The most notable > change in the rankings is the much higher =9Cimportance=9D we gave to > Brodie=99s book. > > Any surprises? Anyone want to defend their choice? Did we miss > anything? > > > Title - Author > > Points > > Count > > > Biography > > > > > > > Biographical Sketches of JS - Smith > > 38 > > 15 > > > No Man Knows My History - Brodie > > 30 > > 12 > > > Brigham Young, American Moses - Arrington > > 14 > > 8 > > > Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt - Pratt > > 14 > > 8 > > > Wilford Woodruff Journals - Kenney > > 11 > > 6 > > > Jesus The Christ - Talmage > > 11 > > 5 > > > Joseph Smith First Mormon - Hill > > 8 > > 3 > > > Things in Heaven & Earth - Alexander > > 6 > > 3 > > > Wilford Woodruff - Cowley > > 5 > > 2 > > > Life of Heber C. Kimball - Whitney > > 4 > > 2 > > > JS & the Beginning of Mormonism - Bushman > > 4 > > 3 > > > Mormon Enigma - Newell > > 4 > > 3 > > > On the Mormon Frontier-Hosea Stout - Brooks > > 3 > > 1 > > > Hugh B. Brown, His Life & Thought - Campbell > > 2 > > 1 > > > The Historical Record - Jensen > > 2 > > 1 > > > Joseph Smith, An American Prophet - Evans > > 2 > > 1 > > > Adventures of a Church Historian - Arrington > > 2 > > 1 > > > Elder Statesman - Quinn > > 2 > > 2 > > > Life of Spencer W. Kimball - Kimball > > 2 > > 2 > > > John Doyle Lee - Brooks > > 2 > > 1 > > > LDS Biographical Encyclopedia - Jensen > > 2 > > 2 > > > In The World - Diaries of Reed Smoot - Smith > > 2 > > 1 > > > From Heart to Heart - Nelson > > 1 > > 1 > > > Wife No. 19 - Young > > 1 > > 1 > > > My Life's Review - Johnson > > 1 > > 1 > > > Sidney Rigdon, A Portrait of Religious Excess - VanW > > 1 > > 1 > > > > > > > > > > > -- Hugh Stocks hstocks@fuse.net - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Cahoon Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Selected Collections from the Archives of the Church... Date: 21 Jan 2003 07:48:23 -0800 (PST) For those of us that are waiting to find it on Benchmark's bargain table... Anyone know what SLC area libraries currently have this set? --Doug --- "Snow, Donald R." wrote: > I bought a copy of the new 74-DVD set from the > Church Archives, but haven't > had time to even boot it up yet. It has a copy of > my g-grandfather's > journal in it and I would probably have been willing > to pay a lot just for > his journal BTW, if any of you intend to buy the > set, subscribe to BYU > Studies first, since when I bought my copy I learned > that if you are a > subscriber you get a healthy discount ($100, iirc). > The closest I have > gotten to looking at the set is to OCR the printed > introduction and table > of contents for someone. > > Don Snow __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Sanders Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Rare Utah.Mormon Book Collection Stolen Date: 21 Jan 2003 10:39:06 -0700 Dear LDS Bookshelfers, I received a phone call from a Salt Lake City Police detective this morning to report the theft from an elderly gentleman here in the city of a rare book collection worth approximately $200,000. It mainly consisted of books on Utah and the Mormons. I have no other details at this time, but wanted to alert everyone as quickly as possible, especially Weller's and Benchmark. Ken Sanders in his role as security chair for ABAA -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Rare Utah.Mormon Book Collection Stolen Date: 21 Jan 2003 11:55:16 -0600 Ken, Thanks for letting us know about this. Mark -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:39 AM Dear LDS Bookshelfers, I received a phone call from a Salt Lake City Police detective this morning to report the theft from an elderly gentleman here in the city of a rare book collection worth approximately $200,000. It mainly consisted of books on Utah and the Mormons. I have no other details at this time, but wanted to alert everyone as quickly as possible, especially Weller's and Benchmark. Ken Sanders in his role as security chair for ABAA -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Sanders Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Rare Utah.Mormon Book Collection Stolen UPDATE Date: 21 Jan 2003 12:01:47 -0700 I have now met with the police detective and the owner of the books. The owner of the books is a Jim Wardle (no not the late barber) and he claims to have a book collection of over 10,000 books stored in two garages. One of the garages has been broken into and he claims 1,000-1500 books were taken from it. The subject matter is largely Utah, the Mormons and the West. The police will be interviewing area bookshops for any possible leads. ken Sanders > > Dear LDS Bookshelfers, > > > I received a phone call from a Salt Lake City Police detective this > morning to report the theft from an elderly gentleman here in the city > of a rare book collection worth approximately $200,000. It mainly > consisted of books on Utah and the Mormons. > > I have no other details at this time, but wanted to alert everyone as > quickly as possible, especially Weller's and Benchmark. > > Ken Sanders in his role as security chair for ABAA > > > > -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Curt Bench" Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Selected Collections from the Archives of the Church... Date: 21 Jan 2003 17:04:51 -0700 We called BYU Studies and asked about the purported $100 discount (see original message below) on the Selected Collections . . . . We were told that they are offering a $50 discount to subscribers, but are charging $50 for shipping, which means the overall cost is still $1299. Perhaps one could pick up the set at their office and not pay for shipping, but we don't know that. We are selling the sets for $1299 and charging $15 for shipping to those needing them mailed. Curt Bench Benchmark Books ----- Original Message ----- Cc: ; Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 9:25 PM Church... > I bought a copy of the new 74-DVD set from the Church Archives, but haven't > had time to even boot it up yet. It has a copy of my g-grandfather's > journal in it and I would probably have been willing to pay a lot just for > his journal BTW, if any of you intend to buy the set, subscribe to BYU > Studies first, since when I bought my copy I learned that if you are a > subscriber you get a healthy discount ($100, iirc). The closest I have > gotten to looking at the set is to OCR the printed introduction and table > of contents for someone. > > Don Snow > > At 02:40 PM 1/18/2003, Brian Irwin wrote: > >Bookshelfers, > > > >Most of you do not know me, but I have been a long-time lurker to this > >email list. Keith's survey has served to pull me out of lurkdom. > >Hopefully, I will participate a little more in the future! > > > >Now that I have finally submitted my survey, I would like to find out if > >any you have plunked down your $1299 for your personal copy of Selected > >Collections from the Archives of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day > >Saints. > > > >I think that this 74 DVD collection may well deserve the Most Important > >title, but I figured that if this survey is to compare results with the > >BYU Studies survey, it really wouldn't be fair, since it hadn't been > >officially announced when the original survey was distributed. > > > >If any of you have purchased the set, how user friendly is it? Is it easy > >to navigate? Was it distributed in a platform-neutral format? (In other > >words, did they use a Windows-only software program to navigate the > >images?) Is there any reason to worry that this might be a "limited > >edition" publication? > > > > > >Brian Irwin > >Currently "between jobs" Mac OS X user who hasn't YET pulled enough cash > >together to purchase his own set of Selected Collections to achieve Mormon > >Historical Nirvana. > > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------- > >- LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > >- To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > >- "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > >- For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > Dr. Donald R. Snow, Dept of Mathematics, Brigham Young University, Provo, > Utah 84602 (office phone) (801) 422-2366, (home phone) (801) 225-7123, > snowd@math.byu.edu, drs31@juno.com -- temporarily on a Family History > Mission at St. George Regional Family History Center, St. George, Utah > (home phone in St. George ) (435) 673-1932 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Results - Doctrine Date: 21 Jan 2003 21:07:32 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C2C191.2278DC80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A close tie here. Journal of Discourses is clearly held in higher importance by our group than the BYU studies sample. TPJS was their overwhelming choice. Any puzzlements here? Vogel's "Early Mormon Documents" got one mention here but several mentions elsewhere. = Messages of the First Presidency also received mentions in several categories. But = MD and JD were the clear choices. Voice of Warning went through a zillion printings. I wonder what non-canonical book has had the most reprints. =20 Doctrine =20 =20 Mormon Doctrine - McConkie 34 16 Journal of Discourses 26 vols 30 13 Voice of Warning - Pratt 14 6 Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith 13 5 Articles of Faith - Talmage 12 8 Jesus The Christ - Talmage 9 5 Encyclopedia of Mormonism 7 4 Evening & Morning Star 6 2 Words of Joseph Smith - Ehat & Cook 6 2 Messages of the First Presidency 6 vols 4 3 Personal Writings of Joseph Smith -Jessee 3 1 A Series of Pamphlets - Orson Pratt 3 2 8 Tracts 1856-57 - Orson Pratt 3 1 Gospel Doctrine - Jos. F. Smith 3 1 Early Mormon Documents - Vogel 3 1 Seventies Course in Theology - Roberts 3 2 Key to the Science of Theology - Pratt 2 1 Doctrines of Salvation - Smith 2 1 Theological Foundations of Mormon Rel - McMurrin 2 1 Classics in Mormon Thought series 2 1 Doctrinal New Testament Commentary - McConkie 2 1 The Seer - Pratt 2 1 Defense of the Faith & the Saints - Roberts 1 1 A Marvelous Work & A Wonder - Richards 1 1 Reed Smoot Hearings 1 1 Sperry Symposium Series 1 1 Miracle of Forgiveness - Kimball 1 1 Conference Reports (incl JD, Coll Disc, etc.) 1 1 Studies of the Book of Mormon - Roberts 1 1 Dialogue, A Journal of Mormon Thought 1 1 Synopsis of Holy Scriptures - Winchester 1 1 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C2C191.2278DC80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A close tie here.  Journal of Discourses is clearly held in = higher importance by our group than the BYU studies sample.  TPJS was = their overwhelming choice.   Any puzzlements here?  = Vogel’s “Early Mormon Documents” got one mention here but several mentions elsewhere.  Messages of the First Presidency also received mentions = in several categories.  But MD and JD were the clear choices.  = Voice of Warning went through a zillion printings.  I wonder what = non-canonical book has had the most reprints.

 

Doctrine

 

 

Mormon Doctrine - McConkie

34

16

Journal of Discourses 26 vols

30

13

Voice of Warning - Pratt

14

6

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph = Smith

13

5

Articles of Faith - Talmage

12

8

Jesus The Christ - Talmage

9

5

Encyclopedia of Mormonism

7

4

Evening & Morning Star

6

2

Words of Joseph Smith - Ehat & = Cook

6

2

Messages of the First Presidency 6 = vols

4

3

Personal Writings of Joseph Smith = -Jessee

3

1

A Series of Pamphlets - Orson = Pratt

3

2

8 Tracts 1856-57 - Orson Pratt

3

1

Gospel Doctrine - Jos. F. = Smith

3

1

Early Mormon Documents - Vogel

3

1

Seventies Course in Theology - = Roberts

3

2

Key to the Science of Theology - = Pratt

2

1

Doctrines of Salvation - Smith

2

1

Theological Foundations of Mormon Rel - = McMurrin

2

1

Classics in Mormon Thought series

2

1

Doctrinal New Testament Commentary - = McConkie

2

1

The Seer - Pratt

2

1

Defense of the Faith & the Saints - = Roberts

1

1

A Marvelous Work & A Wonder - = Richards

1

1

Reed Smoot Hearings

1

1

Sperry Symposium Series

1

1

Miracle of Forgiveness - Kimball

1

1

Conference Reports (incl JD, Coll Disc, = etc.)

1

1

Studies of the Book of Mormon - = Roberts

1

1

Dialogue, A Journal of Mormon = Thought

1

1

Synopsis of Holy Scriptures - Winchester

=

1

1

 

------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C2C191.2278DC80-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Results - Fiction Date: 21 Jan 2003 21:39:16 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C195.8F983500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Other than Giant Joshua, we don't agree on much at all in this category. But wait until you see "inspirational" Fiction Giant Joshua - Whipple 46 18 Added Upon - Anderson 13 8 The Backslider - Peterson 11 6 Children of God - Fisher 10 4 Nightfall at Nauvoo - Taylor 8 4 Work and the Glory - Lund 8 4 Dialogue between Jos. Smith& the Devil - Pratt 6 3 Tales of Alvin Maker - Card 4 2 Heaven Knows Why - Taylor 4 3 Standing on the Promises - Young 3 1 Under the Cottonwoods - Thayer 3 1 Manuscript Found/Manuscript Story -Spaulding* 3 1 A Collection of Sacred Hymns (1835) 3 1 Family Kingdom - Taylor 3 1 The Lost Boys - Card 2 1 Saints - Card 2 2 Fire & the Covenant - Lund 2 1 The Folk of the Fringe - Card 1 1 Children of Promise 1 1 God's Army 1 1 Corianton - Roberts 1 1 Where Nothing is Long Ago - Sorensen 1 1 Red Water 1 1 No Man Knows My History - Brodie 1 1 ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C195.8F983500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Other than Giant Joshua, we don't agree on much at all in this = category.     But wait until you see "inspirational"  = <g>

 

Fiction

 

 

Giant Joshua - Whipple

46

18

Added Upon - Anderson

13

8

The Backslider - Peterson

11

6

Children of God - Fisher

10

4

Nightfall at Nauvoo - Taylor

8

4

Work and the Glory - Lund

8

4

Dialogue between Jos. Smith& the Devil - = Pratt

6

3

Tales of Alvin Maker - Card

4

2

Heaven Knows Why - Taylor

4

3

Standing on the Promises - Young

3

1

Under the Cottonwoods - Thayer

3

1

Manuscript Found/Manuscript Story = -Spaulding*

3

1

A Collection of Sacred Hymns = (1835)

3

1

Family Kingdom - Taylor

3

1

The Lost Boys - Card

2

1

Saints - Card

2

2

Fire & the Covenant - Lund

2

1

The Folk of the Fringe - Card

1

1

Children of Promise

1

1

God's Army

1

1

Corianton - Roberts

1

1

Where Nothing is Long Ago - = Sorensen

1

1

Red Water

1

1

No Man Knows My History - Brodie

1

1

 

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C2C195.8F983500-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hjmckell@xmission.com Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Fwd: Dorothy Sloan - Books: Auction Feb. 5 Date: 22 Jan 2003 17:50:03 -0700 This might be of interest to bookshefers. ----- Forwarded message from Dorothy Sloan - Books ----- Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:41:01 -0600 From: Dorothy Sloan - Books Reply-To: Dorothy Sloan - Books Subject: Dorothy Sloan - Books: Auction Feb. 5 To: Dorothy Sloan Client List ANNOUNCING TWO AUCTIONS Auction 12 THE DANIEL G. VOLKMANN JR. COLLECTION OF THE ZAMORANO 80, a Complete Collection of First Editions of THE ZAMORANO 80, the Selection of Distinguished California Books Made by The Zamorano Club in 1945. AUCTION 13 A Few Select Maps & Manuscripts Touching upon the History of Texas, California, the Southwest, Mexico & The Borderlands, including the Disturnell Treaty Map Sequence and Two Important Manuscript Overland Diaries. Complete catalogues are available at our web site (www.sloanrarebooks.com), along with information on printed copies of the catalogues. AUCTIONS TO BE CONDUCTED in San Francisco at the Joseph & Mildred Rolph Moore Gallery at The Society of California Pioneers, 300 Fourth Street (corner Folsom Street). Auction 12: Wednesday, February 5, 2003, 4 p.m. Auction 13, Wednesday, February 5, 2003, 3 p.m. (Please note, Auction 13 precedes Auction 12) PREVIEW Tuesday, February 4, 2003, 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. Wednesday, February 5, 2003, 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. Due to our desire to support a non-profit historical association and regulations of the City of San Francisco, seating is limited and thus will be confined to registered bidders (reservations required). Dorothy Sloan-Rare Books, Inc. Box 49670 Austin, Texas 78765-9670 Phone 512-477-8442 Fax 512-477-8602 E-mail: rarebooks@sloanrarebooks.com Web: www.sloanrarebooks.com Dorothy Sloan, Texas Auctioneers License #10210 ----- End forwarded message ----- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Fwd: Dorothy Sloan - Books: Auction Feb. 5 Date: 22 Jan 2003 20:21:26 -0800 I heard Dan Volkman talk about his collection once. He inherited a = moderate sized California collection from his mother. In her will she said that = he should "learn something about these books before you sell them." He did = and then built out one of the finest collections around. I've been told = that he has the only collection of 1st edition Zamorano 80 in private hands. = And now it can be yours for the right price. Keith -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of hjmckell@xmission.com Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 4:50 PM This might be of interest to bookshefers. ----- Forwarded message from Dorothy Sloan - Books=20 ----- Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 22:41:01 -0600 From: Dorothy Sloan - Books Reply-To: Dorothy Sloan - Books Subject: Dorothy Sloan - Books: Auction Feb. 5 To: Dorothy Sloan Client List ANNOUNCING TWO AUCTIONS Auction 12 THE DANIEL G. VOLKMANN JR. COLLECTION OF THE ZAMORANO 80, a Complete=20 Collection of First Editions of THE ZAMORANO 80, the Selection of=20 Distinguished California Books Made by The Zamorano Club in 1945. AUCTION 13 A Few Select Maps & Manuscripts Touching upon the History of Texas,=20 California, the Southwest, Mexico & The Borderlands, including the=20 Disturnell Treaty Map Sequence and Two Important Manuscript Overland=20 Diaries. Complete catalogues are available at our web site=20 (www.sloanrarebooks.com), along with information on printed copies of=20 the catalogues. AUCTIONS TO BE CONDUCTED in San Francisco at the Joseph & Mildred Rolph=20 Moore Gallery at The Society of California Pioneers, 300 Fourth Street=20 (corner Folsom Street). Auction 12: Wednesday, February 5, 2003, 4 p.m. Auction 13, Wednesday, February 5, 2003, 3 p.m. (Please note, Auction 13 precedes Auction 12) PREVIEW Tuesday, February 4, 2003, 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. Wednesday, February 5, 2003, 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. Due to our desire to support a non-profit historical association and=20 regulations of the City of San Francisco, seating is limited and thus=20 will be confined to registered bidders (reservations required). Dorothy Sloan-Rare Books, Inc. Box 49670 Austin, Texas 78765-9670 Phone 512-477-8442 Fax 512-477-8602 E-mail: rarebooks@sloanrarebooks.com Web: www.sloanrarebooks.com Dorothy Sloan, Texas Auctioneers License #10210 =20 ----- End forwarded message ----- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey results - History Date: 22 Jan 2003 20:25:54 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2C254.7A3BB550 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's the history list. The high ranking of "Early Mormon Documents" = was a bit of a surprise. Pretty god agreement on the first five but it trails = off after that. =20 History =20 =20 Documentary History of the Church 39 16 Great Basin Kingdom - Arrington 21 10 Mountain Meadows Massacre - Brooks 18 10 Comprehensive History of the Church 15 6 Early Mormon Documents - Vogel 16 7 Wilford Woodruff Journals - Kenney 9 3 Mormon Heirarchy - Origins of Power - Quinn 7 5 The Papers of Joseph Smith - Jesse 6 4 The Story of the Latter-day Saints - Allen 4 2 Essentials in Church History - Smith 4 2 Early Mormonism & Magical Worldview - Quinn 4 2 Messages of the First Presidency 3 1 A Mormon Chronicle - John D. Lee Journals=20 3 1 Times & Seasons 3 1 JS and the Beginnings of Mormonism - Bushman 3 2 Blood of the Prophets - Bagley 2 1 Readings in LDS Church History 2 1 Encyclopedia of Mormonism 2 2 Millenial Star 2 1 Journal of Discourses 2 1 The Mormon Experience - Arrington & Bitton=20 2 2 Descriptive Bibliography.- Crawley 1 1 An Expedition to the Valley of GSL - Stansbury 1 1 No Man Knows My History - Brodie 1 1 Rocky Mountain Saints - Stenhouse 1 1 Utah's Heritage - Ellsworth 1 1 History of Utah - Warrum 1 1 A Plainer Translation - Matthews 1 1 =20 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2C254.7A3BB550 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here’s the history list.  The high ranking of “Early Mormon = Documents” was a bit of a surprise.  Pretty god agreement on the first five but it = trails off after that.

 

History

 

 

Documentary History of the Church

39

16

Great Basin Kingdom - Arrington

21

10

Mountain Meadows Massacre - = Brooks

18

10

Comprehensive History of the = Church

15

6

Early Mormon Documents - Vogel

16

7

Wilford Woodruff Journals - = Kenney

9

3

Mormon Heirarchy - Origins of Power - = Quinn

7

5

The Papers of Joseph Smith - = Jesse

6

4

The Story of the Latter-day Saints - = Allen

4

2

Essentials in Church History - = Smith

4

2

Early Mormonism & Magical Worldview - = Quinn

4

2

Messages of the First Presidency

3

1

A Mormon Chronicle - John D. Lee Journals =

3

1

Times & Seasons

3

1

JS and the Beginnings of Mormonism - = Bushman

3

2

Blood of the Prophets - Bagley

2

1

Readings in LDS Church History

2

1

Encyclopedia of Mormonism

2

2

Millenial Star

2

1

Journal of Discourses

2

1

The Mormon Experience - Arrington & Bitton =

2

2

Descriptive Bibliography…- = Crawley

1

1

An Expedition to the Valley of GSL - Stansbury

1

1

No Man Knows My History - Brodie

1

1

Rocky Mountain Saints - Stenhouse

1

1

Utah's Heritage - = Ellsworth

1

1

History of Utah - = Warrum

1

1

A Plainer Translation - Matthews

1

1

 

------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C2C254.7A3BB550-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] And the winner is... Date: 22 Jan 2003 20:32:00 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C2C255.541C1350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit And the book deemed most important by LDS-Bookshelfers: (note that since you only got one choice, I only gave each mention one point.) The MOST important Book Jesus The Christ 5 5 Wilford Woodruff Journals 3 3 Journal of Discourses - 26 vols 3 3 No Man Knows My History 2 2 Documentary History of the Church 2 2 Words of Joseph Smith - Ehat 2 2 Voice of Warning - Pratt 1 1 The Miracle of Fogiveness 1 1 Early Mormon Documents - Vogel 1 1 Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith - Smith 1 1 He Did Deliver Me from Bondage - Harrison 1 1 Comprehensive History of the Church - Roberts 1 1 A Mormon Bibliography - Flake 1 1 Evening & Morning Star 1 1 ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C2C255.541C1350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

And the book deemed most important by LDS-Bookshelfers: (note that since you = only got one choice, I only gave each mention one point.)

 

 

The MOST important = Book

 

 

Jesus The Christ

5

5

Wilford Woodruff Journals

3

3

Journal of Discourses - 26 vols

3

3

No Man Knows My History

2

2

Documentary History of the Church

2

2

Words of Joseph Smith - Ehat

2

2

Voice of Warning - Pratt

1

1

The Miracle of Fogiveness

1

1

Early Mormon Documents - Vogel

1

1

Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith - = Smith

1

1

He Did Deliver Me from Bondage - = Harrison

1

1

Comprehensive History of the Church - = Roberts

1

1

A Mormon Bibliography - Flake

1

1

Evening & Morning Star

1

1

 

------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C2C255.541C1350-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ADDA CHILE" Subject: SOLICITE CALENDARIO DE REGALO Date: 23 Jan 2003 12:21:08 Untitled Document
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] following up on ken's posts Date: 24 Jan 2003 21:17:58 -0600 Ken, Earlier in the week you wrote about some guys book collection being stolen. Any more news on that? Also, what about the BOM on ebay that you mentioned? I noted that all of sudden one of them up for sale was taken off. Any idea what happened? Mark - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Sanders Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Stealing Stolen Books Date: 25 Jan 2003 11:12:40 -0700 The stolen book caper has taken a decidedly odd twist. One Jim Wardle alleges that a former tenant has stolen a portion of his rare Mormon book collection from two garages he owns. Wardle is claiming a collection of some 10,000 volumes, of which he alleges between 1000-2000 volumes have been stolen, allegedly by a former tenant. A police detective and Jim Wardle came to my shop with a milk crate full of books. I estimated the books as being worth approximately $1,000. The allegedly stolen books have been showing up in area book shops. With Wardle's permission I offered to publicise the theft and did so to this list. I learned from that post that Jim Wardle was an alleged notorious book thief going back 15 and 25 years ago and allegedly stole significant quantities of rare Mormon books from Desert Book and Utah State University. Others on this list will have more details on these events than I. The police have confirmed these events and a pattern of arrest records for Jim Wardle and his progeny. Ken Sanders Edlund, Mark J wrote: > > Ken, > > Earlier in the week you wrote about some guys book collection being stolen. Any more news on that? Also, what about the BOM on ebay that you mentioned? I noted that all of sudden one of them up for sale was taken off. Any idea what happened? > > Mark > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > > -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Stealing Stolen Books Date: 25 Jan 2003 12:17:55 -0800 Honestly, I don't think you could write fiction more bizarre than what happens in the world of Mormon books. We need someone to write the Mormon version of "A Gentle Madness." -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sanders Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 10:13 AM The stolen book caper has taken a decidedly odd twist. One Jim Wardle alleges that a former tenant has stolen a portion of his rare Mormon book collection from two garages he owns. Wardle is claiming a collection of some 10,000 volumes, of which he alleges between 1000-2000 volumes have been stolen, allegedly by a former tenant. A police detective and Jim Wardle came to my shop with a milk crate full of books. I estimated the books as being worth approximately $1,000. The allegedly stolen books have been showing up in area book shops. With Wardle's permission I offered to publicise the theft and did so to this list. I learned from that post that Jim Wardle was an alleged notorious book thief going back 15 and 25 years ago and allegedly stole significant quantities of rare Mormon books from Desert Book and Utah State University. Others on this list will have more details on these events than I. The police have confirmed these events and a pattern of arrest records for Jim Wardle and his progeny. Ken Sanders Edlund, Mark J wrote: > > Ken, > > Earlier in the week you wrote about some guys book collection being stolen. Any more news on that? Also, what about the BOM on ebay that you mentioned? I noted that all of sudden one of them up for sale was taken off. Any idea what happened? > > Mark > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > > -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Sanders Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Stealing Stolen Books Date: 25 Jan 2003 15:58:45 -0700 Keith, I have a section in my store labeled MORMONS, MURDER & MADNESS, for books written on some of our more unusual episodes; Mark Hofmann, etc. In regards to the Book of Mormon on ebay, I have very little to say other than the copy offered that had the auction shut down on ebay is the self same copy Rick Grunder sold about a year ago on ebay! I'm going to let Rick tell this story... Ken Sanders Keith Irwin wrote: > Honestly, I don't think you could write fiction more bizarre than what > happens in the world of Mormon books. We need someone to write the Mormon > version of "A Gentle Madness." > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sanders > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 10:13 AM > To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Stealing Stolen Books > > The stolen book caper has taken a decidedly odd twist. One Jim Wardle > alleges that a former tenant has stolen a portion of his rare Mormon > book collection from two garages he owns. Wardle is claiming a > collection of some 10,000 volumes, of which he alleges between 1000-2000 > volumes have been stolen, allegedly by a former tenant. > > A police detective and Jim Wardle came to my shop with a milk crate full > of books. I estimated the books as being worth approximately $1,000. > The allegedly stolen books have been showing up in area book shops. > > > With Wardle's permission I offered to publicise the theft and did so to > this list. I learned from that post that Jim Wardle was an alleged > notorious book thief going back 15 and 25 years ago and allegedly stole > significant quantities of rare Mormon books from Desert Book and Utah > State University. Others on this list will have more details on these > events than I. The police have confirmed these events and a pattern of > arrest records for Jim Wardle and his progeny. > > Ken Sanders > > Edlund, Mark J wrote: > > >> >>Ken, >> >>Earlier in the week you wrote about some guys book collection being >> > stolen. Any more news on that? Also, what about the BOM on ebay that you > mentioned? I noted that all of sudden one of them up for sale was taken > off. Any idea what happened? > >>Mark >> >> >> >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------- >>- LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books >>- To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with >>- "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. >>- For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" >> >> >> >> > > -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] The Phanton "First" Date: 25 Jan 2003 20:25:59 EST In a message dated 1/25/03 5:59:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, ken@dreamgarden.com writes: << In regards to the Book of Mormon on ebay, I have very little to say other than the copy offered that had the auction shut down on ebay is the self same copy Rick Grunder sold about a year ago on ebay! I'm going to let Rick tell this story... >> Here is the long version. I have no short version. After reading Ken's post to the Shelf last Monday evening ("There are currently two Book of Mormons on ebay. . . ."), I went to the AOL Mormon section, which I hadn't visited for a few days. The moment I saw the small thumbnail picture of the book beside the link to its sale description, I suspected that something was rather too familiar for comfort. Sure enough! As the page opened, I saw several pictures which I took in September 2001 for my website listing of a decent copy of the 1830 Book of Mormon. I had completed the description and HTML presentation just in time to load onto my site on a Tuesday morning. That morning turned out to be September 11, 2001. Other stuff happened, so I waited a respectful two weeks before posting the item. The additional shock to an already lethargic economy meant that it took six months to sell that book, instead of the usual six minutes or six hours or six days. In fact, I decided to list it on eBay in the spring (2002). While the bidding did not reach the reserve of $65,000, the failed sale was followed by several communications from potential customers, and one agreed to the price and acquired the book. The book remains with the happy customer, in Utah. I amended the listing on my website to show that the book was sold, and left it there for the possible interest of customers (and for the obvious advertising value and glitz it might lend): http://www.rickgrunder.com/1830.htm The rest of the story must be speculation, but it seems transparent enough, I think. Disclaimer: The following is merely speculative fiction, designed to entertain. Any coincidence with what actually happened is mere luck: Someone out there in Cyber-land evidently secures bank accounts using false identities. I can just see him or her visiting their local bank branch office from time to time, making modest deposits and withdrawals, chatting up the clerks, and establishing trust and familiarity. They probably run a dozen such set-ups simultaneously. Watching the internet - either eBay or dealer websites - our perpetrator probably combines a careful sense of timing with a reasonable knowledge of collectibles in general - and good photo software skills. In the case of my Book of Mormon page on my website, for example, our "perp" did the following: 1) edited my pictures very neatly, removing the background material (such as the ubiquitous Grunder breakfront with its reddish mahogany shelf and marble counter top), and replacing it with a solid black background. In the case of a double-page spread done on the scanner, showing the beginning of the Book of Alma, the left-hand side of the picture was removed, showing only the Alma page. This editing was so clean that I might have done it myself . 2) edited my typical, excessively verbose description down to an absolute bare-bones entry such as one might find in a normal rare book catalog [!]. In the process, however, the perp made one tactical error. He/she tried to come across as a regular guy/gal who just happened to inherit the book, saying it had been in the family for more than 100 years (untrue! untrue! It was in a California collection for decades, then in my possession for six months). YET, our folksy friend forgot to change my square brackets in the collation, describing the two final unnumbered pages of the Book of Mormon. Now, how likely would it be for Joe or Cathy Homeowner to describe a family heirloom as "588, [2] pp, . . ." ? No way. But ooops! Didja notice? They forgot the period after the second "p." Tch! tch! Or, a nice, homely touch. 3) exercised bibliographic creativity, upgrading "my" copy, which I describe on the website as having . . . "One original blank flyleaf at the front, and three at the back (of a possible two at the front and three at the back)." Sure enough, our discriminating perp goes for the gold: "It is complete with 588 pages, two blank flyleaf's in the front, and three in the back." Again, notice the charming homeliness of "flyleaf's," including the golly gee-whiz superfluous apostrophe. But our perp is more ambitious than I have credited. He/she has browsed several listings on eBay, and gleaned phrases which I don't use: ". . . This is the only edition to include the 2 page preface. . . . This book makes an excellent investment opportunity . . ." I was not able to reach my customer immediately, to confirm absolutely that he had not sold this book to another party in the last year. However, there were several suspicious tip-offs that this was a phantom book being offered on eBay in order to defraud someone out of a sum sufficient to feed both my nephews for an entire weekend. To wit: A - It was only a five-day sale, allowing little time for people to notice what was going on or to make a connection with my "donor site." The five days ended on a Wednesday, allowing just enough time to carry the charade to the weekend, with extra time to take the wired money and run. B - It was one of those anonymous sales, whereby the public could not evaluate who was bidding, or warn the bidders that they were being defrauded. C - The "seller" perp stipulated that payment could only be made by wire transfer. The better to eat and run, my dear! "Dear Mr. Victim: Your wire transfer arrived and cleared this afternoon. Since it is Friday, I will send your book by Registered Mail first thing Monday morning. Please watch for it and let me know the moment it arrives. I know you will treasure this family heirloom for generations to come!" D - The reserve was set very low, somewhere between $32,000 and $35,200 dollars (the price it had attained by the time I first saw the listing on eBay). High enough to sound real, but too low to ignore. As it turns out, a helpful stranger called me from Washington State to warm me of the pirating from my site. He told me that he had found an earlier sale on ebay by the same friendly sounding perp ("autumntwighlight1981," in Virginia, supposedly) which went full course, selling two very valuable [phantom] baseball cards for thousands of dollars, yet lower than the same real cards sold on the legitimate site from which the phantom info was pirated. So, one more racket to watch out for! The above, remember, is merely fiction to entertain. I wouldn't dream of accusing autumntwighlight1981 or an other party of committing an actual crime or deceit. My customer, who actually owns the real 1830 Book of Mormon, finally got my e-mail and replied: "Thank you for letting me know about this. I would have loved to buy another 'exact' copy for that price! Again it is nice to have friends in the world. Have a great day . . ." Glad to oblige! Rick Grunder Rick Grunder - Books We describe 'em, you sell 'em - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Make that "PhantoM" Date: 25 Jan 2003 20:29:56 EST Sorry about the subject-line misspelling. Make that, "Phamtom." Or, um, uh . . . - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Eccles" Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] The Phanton "First" Date: 26 Jan 2003 06:59:50 -0600 Rick: I love your new slogan. Will that be appearing on your website? --Steve - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Steve Eccles" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Book Prices in Dallas Date: 26 Jan 2003 07:39:36 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2C50E.13B22050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If anyone is interested, I went to the local LDS Bookstore, Moon Book's = (it used to be a Deseret Book Store, but they sold out to Moon -- I = believe he had a store before Deseret Book came into town anyway), and = found some used books. I was very curious about prices, so made the = following comparisons: TITLE DALLAS STORE ABE DESERET BOOK AMAZON =20 Mormon Docterine - 1st ed. $875 - uncertain if it has dustjacket $295 - $600 None None =20 Selected Manifestations $750 $585 - $625 None None =20 Fate of the Persecuters - 1st $85 $63 - $65 None $43 - $59 =20 Bruce R. McConkie bio by Eborn $9.95 $15 - $29.95 None $27.97 - $29.97 =20 Message of the J.S. Papyrus by Nibley $295.00 $100 - $190 None $195 - $200 =20 I don't think I'll be using this source for rare books very soon. I'm = ready to conclude that he really doesn't want to sell these books, but = likes showing them off. Some were in a glass topped coffee table by = occasional chairs he uses for a reading area. He also had some leather bound titles that he won't allow customers to = examine, but Moon was in Utah, and his staff had no idea how much he = wanted for them. However, if anyone wants a copy of the McConkie biography, this is a = good source. He had several copies I believe still in plastic wrappers. I'm still looking for good stores in this area, so if you have any = ideas, I'd really welcome them. I understand a famous author has several warehouses of books about 120 = miles from here. A friend from work went there and his biggest comment = was that they were unheated and it was very cold in them. I'm off there = in the next couple of weekends. --Steve ------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2C50E.13B22050 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If anyone is interested, I went to the local LDS Bookstore, Moon = Book's (it=20 used to be a Deseret Book Store, but they sold out to Moon -- I believe = he had a=20 store before Deseret Book came into town anyway), and found some used = books. I=20 was very curious about prices, so made the following comparisons:
 

TITLE

DALLAS = STORE

ABE

DESERET = BOOK

AMAZON

Mormon Docterine =96 1st=20 ed.

$875 =96 uncertain if it has=20 dustjacket

$295 - $600

None

None

Selected = Manifestations

$750

$585 - $625

None

None

Fate of the Persecuters =96=20 1st

$85

$63 - $65

None

$43 - $59

Bruce R. McConkie bio by=20 Eborn

$9.95

$15 - $29.95

None

$27.97 - = $29.97

Message of the J.S. Papyrus by=20 Nibley

$295.00

$100 - $190

None

$195 -=20 $200

 
I don't think I'll be using this source for rare books very soon. = I'm ready=20 to conclude that he really doesn't want to sell these books, but likes = showing=20 them off. Some were in a glass topped coffee table by occasional chairs = he uses=20 for a reading area.
 
He also had some leather bound titles that he won't allow customers = to=20 examine, but Moon was in Utah, and his staff had no idea how much he = wanted for=20 them.
 
However, if anyone wants a copy of the McConkie biography, this is = a good=20 source. He had several copies I believe still in plastic wrappers.
 
I'm still looking for good stores in this area, so if you have any = ideas,=20 I'd really welcome them.
 
I understand a famous author has several warehouses of books about = 120=20 miles from here. A friend from work went there and his biggest comment = was that=20 they were unheated and it was very cold in them. I'm off there in the = next=20 couple of weekends.
 
--Steve
------=_NextPart_000_0015_01C2C50E.13B22050-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Book Prices in Dallas Date: 26 Jan 2003 09:38:59 -0600 The famous author you refer to must be Larry McMurtry and his store in Archer Texas. He also has a place in DC. McMurtry started as a book scout in the late 1950's or early 1960's. BTW, to everyone I know I recommend the book "Texfake" which McMurtry did the intro for. The book discusses the Texas forgeries that happened about the same time as the Mormon forgeries. Mark Edlund -----Original Message----- Sent: 1/26/2003 7:39 AM If anyone is interested, I went to the local LDS Bookstore, Moon Book's (it used to be a Deseret Book Store, but they sold out to Moon -- I believe he had a store before Deseret Book came into town anyway), and found some used books. I was very curious about prices, so made the following comparisons: TITLE DALLAS STORE ABE DESERET BOOK AMAZON Mormon Docterine - 1st ed. $875 - uncertain if it has dustjacket $295 - $600 None None Selected Manifestations $750 $585 - $625 None None Fate of the Persecuters - 1st $85 $63 - $65 None $43 - $59 Bruce R. McConkie bio by Eborn $9.95 $15 - $29.95 None $27.97 - $29.97 Message of the J.S. Papyrus by Nibley $295.00 $100 - $190 None $195 - $200 I don't think I'll be using this source for rare books very soon. I'm ready to conclude that he really doesn't want to sell these books, but likes showing them off. Some were in a glass topped coffee table by occasional chairs he uses for a reading area. He also had some leather bound titles that he won't allow customers to examine, but Moon was in Utah, and his staff had no idea how much he wanted for them. However, if anyone wants a copy of the McConkie biography, this is a good source. He had several copies I believe still in plastic wrappers. I'm still looking for good stores in this area, so if you have any ideas, I'd really welcome them. I understand a famous author has several warehouses of books about 120 miles from here. A friend from work went there and his biggest comment was that they were unheated and it was very cold in them. I'm off there in the next couple of weekends. --Steve - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan Adair" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Date: 26 Jan 2003 23:03:58 -0700 Did the inspirational book list get sent out? I didn't receive it. MBA - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] The Phanton "First" Date: 27 Jan 2003 09:53:47 -0600 Rick, Thanks for this most interesting account. This was a nice piece of detective work. One other interesting thing from last week was that the other 1st edition BOM for sale on ebay had a high bid of about $40,000. I was wondering if people think this represents the price that people are willing to pay for the 1st edition, or was this an aberration, i.e. maybe people were scared off because of the scam with the other BOM, or maybe the condition of this copy was below average. Any thoughts? Mark -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 7:26 PM In a message dated 1/25/03 5:59:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, ken@dreamgarden.com writes: << In regards to the Book of Mormon on ebay, I have very little to say other than the copy offered that had the auction shut down on ebay is the self same copy Rick Grunder sold about a year ago on ebay! I'm going to let Rick tell this story... >> Here is the long version. I have no short version. After reading Ken's post to the Shelf last Monday evening ("There are currently two Book of Mormons on ebay. . . ."), I went to the AOL Mormon section, which I hadn't visited for a few days. The moment I saw the small thumbnail picture of the book beside the link to its sale description, I suspected that something was rather too familiar for comfort. Sure enough! As the page opened, I saw several pictures which I took in September 2001 for my website listing of a decent copy of the 1830 Book of Mormon. I had completed the description and HTML presentation just in time to load onto my site on a Tuesday morning. That morning turned out to be September 11, 2001. Other stuff happened, so I waited a respectful two weeks before posting the item. The additional shock to an already lethargic economy meant that it took six months to sell that book, instead of the usual six minutes or six hours or six days. In fact, I decided to list it on eBay in the spring (2002). While the bidding did not reach the reserve of $65,000, the failed sale was followed by several communications from potential customers, and one agreed to the price and acquired the book. The book remains with the happy customer, in Utah. I amended the listing on my website to show that the book was sold, and left it there for the possible interest of customers (and for the obvious advertising value and glitz it might lend): http://www.rickgrunder.com/1830.htm The rest of the story must be speculation, but it seems transparent enough, I think. Disclaimer: The following is merely speculative fiction, designed to entertain. Any coincidence with what actually happened is mere luck: Someone out there in Cyber-land evidently secures bank accounts using false identities. I can just see him or her visiting their local bank branch office from time to time, making modest deposits and withdrawals, chatting up the clerks, and establishing trust and familiarity. They probably run a dozen such set-ups simultaneously. Watching the internet - either eBay or dealer websites - our perpetrator probably combines a careful sense of timing with a reasonable knowledge of collectibles in general - and good photo software skills. In the case of my Book of Mormon page on my website, for example, our "perp" did the following: 1) edited my pictures very neatly, removing the background material (such as the ubiquitous Grunder breakfront with its reddish mahogany shelf and marble counter top), and replacing it with a solid black background. In the case of a double-page spread done on the scanner, showing the beginning of the Book of Alma, the left-hand side of the picture was removed, showing only the Alma page. This editing was so clean that I might have done it myself . 2) edited my typical, excessively verbose description down to an absolute bare-bones entry such as one might find in a normal rare book catalog [!]. In the process, however, the perp made one tactical error. He/she tried to come across as a regular guy/gal who just happened to inherit the book, saying it had been in the family for more than 100 years (untrue! untrue! It was in a California collection for decades, then in my possession for six months). YET, our folksy friend forgot to change my square brackets in the collation, describing the two final unnumbered pages of the Book of Mormon. Now, how likely would it be for Joe or Cathy Homeowner to describe a family heirloom as "588, [2] pp, . . ." ? No way. But ooops! Didja notice? They forgot the period after the second "p." Tch! tch! Or, a nice, homely touch. 3) exercised bibliographic creativity, upgrading "my" copy, which I describe on the website as having . . . "One original blank flyleaf at the front, and three at the back (of a possible two at the front and three at the back)." Sure enough, our discriminating perp goes for the gold: "It is complete with 588 pages, two blank flyleaf's in the front, and three in the back." Again, notice the charming homeliness of "flyleaf's," including the golly gee-whiz superfluous apostrophe. But our perp is more ambitious than I have credited. He/she has browsed several listings on eBay, and gleaned phrases which I don't use: ". . . This is the only edition to include the 2 page preface. . . . This book makes an excellent investment opportunity . . ." I was not able to reach my customer immediately, to confirm absolutely that he had not sold this book to another party in the last year. However, there were several suspicious tip-offs that this was a phantom book being offered on eBay in order to defraud someone out of a sum sufficient to feed both my nephews for an entire weekend. To wit: A - It was only a five-day sale, allowing little time for people to notice what was going on or to make a connection with my "donor site." The five days ended on a Wednesday, allowing just enough time to carry the charade to the weekend, with extra time to take the wired money and run. B - It was one of those anonymous sales, whereby the public could not evaluate who was bidding, or warn the bidders that they were being defrauded. C - The "seller" perp stipulated that payment could only be made by wire transfer. The better to eat and run, my dear! "Dear Mr. Victim: Your wire transfer arrived and cleared this afternoon. Since it is Friday, I will send your book by Registered Mail first thing Monday morning. Please watch for it and let me know the moment it arrives. I know you will treasure this family heirloom for generations to come!" D - The reserve was set very low, somewhere between $32,000 and $35,200 dollars (the price it had attained by the time I first saw the listing on eBay). High enough to sound real, but too low to ignore. As it turns out, a helpful stranger called me from Washington State to warm me of the pirating from my site. He told me that he had found an earlier sale on ebay by the same friendly sounding perp ("autumntwighlight1981," in Virginia, supposedly) which went full course, selling two very valuable [phantom] baseball cards for thousands of dollars, yet lower than the same real cards sold on the legitimate site from which the phantom info was pirated. So, one more racket to watch out for! The above, remember, is merely fiction to entertain. I wouldn't dream of accusing autumntwighlight1981 or an other party of committing an actual crime or deceit. My customer, who actually owns the real 1830 Book of Mormon, finally got my e-mail and replied: "Thank you for letting me know about this. I would have loved to buy another 'exact' copy for that price! Again it is nice to have friends in the world. Have a great day . . ." Glad to oblige! Rick Grunder Rick Grunder - Books We describe 'em, you sell 'em - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Stealing Stolen Books Date: 27 Jan 2003 09:24:36 -0700 Both of these stories are fascinating, and raises a question. Ken, what precautions do you take against buying stolen goods? Roy Schmidt >>> ken@dreamgarden.com 01/25/03 03:58PM >>> Keith, I have a section in my store labeled MORMONS, MURDER & MADNESS, for books written on some of our more unusual episodes; Mark Hofmann, etc. In regards to the Book of Mormon on ebay, I have very little to say other than the copy offered that had the auction shut down on ebay is the self same copy Rick Grunder sold about a year ago on ebay! I'm going to let Rick tell this story... Ken Sanders Keith Irwin wrote: > Honestly, I don't think you could write fiction more bizarre than what > happens in the world of Mormon books. We need someone to write the Mormon > version of "A Gentle Madness." > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Ken Sanders > Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 10:13 AM > To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Stealing Stolen Books > > The stolen book caper has taken a decidedly odd twist. One Jim Wardle > alleges that a former tenant has stolen a portion of his rare Mormon > book collection from two garages he owns. Wardle is claiming a > collection of some 10,000 volumes, of which he alleges between 1000-2000 > volumes have been stolen, allegedly by a former tenant. > > A police detective and Jim Wardle came to my shop with a milk crate full > of books. I estimated the books as being worth approximately $1,000. > The allegedly stolen books have been showing up in area book shops. > > > With Wardle's permission I offered to publicise the theft and did so to > this list. I learned from that post that Jim Wardle was an alleged > notorious book thief going back 15 and 25 years ago and allegedly stole > significant quantities of rare Mormon books from Desert Book and Utah > State University. Others on this list will have more details on these > events than I. The police have confirmed these events and a pattern of > arrest records for Jim Wardle and his progeny. > > Ken Sanders > > Edlund, Mark J wrote: > > >> >>Ken, >> >>Earlier in the week you wrote about some guys book collection being >> > stolen. Any more news on that? Also, what about the BOM on ebay that you > mentioned? I noted that all of sudden one of them up for sale was taken > off. Any idea what happened? > >>Mark >> >> >> >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------- >>- LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books >>- To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with >>- "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. >>- For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" >> >> >> >> > > -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keith Irwin Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Date: 27 Jan 2003 13:03:01 -0800 (PST) It was a long list (with very little agreement.) When I put it into html it turned out to be too many characters and was kicked back from the server. I'll have to reformat and send again. Keith -------Original Message------- Sent: 01/26/03 10:03 PM > > Did the inspirational book list get sent out? I didn't receive it. MBA - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Date: 27 Jan 2003 15:11:08 -0600 This was the category I had the most difficulty with. In all the other categories I had no problem coming up with 3 titles, but I was kind of stumped in this category. Finally I asked myself "Who has been the most inspirational church speaker or writer you have heard or read". The name that immediately came to mind was Elder Paul Dunn. However, it was difficult to pick one of his titles. This was complicated by the fact that much of his best stuff was just on tape. Finally I settled on his talk "World War II Experiences", which is only on tape. However, I also listed one of his articles in the New Era that dealt with the same material. Mark Edlund -----Original Message----- Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 3:03 PM It was a long list (with very little agreement.) When I put it into html it turned out to be too many characters and was kicked back from the server. I'll have to reformat and send again. Keith -------Original Message------- Sent: 01/26/03 10:03 PM > > Did the inspirational book list get sent out? I didn't receive it. MBA - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] First Edition on eBay Date: 27 Jan 2003 20:22:19 EST In a message dated 1/27/03 10:54:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, EdlundMarkJ@uams.edu writes: << One other interesting thing from last week was that the other 1st edition BOM for sale on ebay had a high bid of about $40,000. I was wondering if people think this represents the price that people are willing to pay for the 1st edition, or was this an aberration, i.e. maybe people were scared off because of the scam with the other BOM, or maybe the condition of this copy was below average. Any thoughts? >> In such a relatively small collecting area as first-edition Books of Mormon, one or two exceptions or unusual circumstances can easily upset normal trends or expected bidding patterns. For that reason, I doubt that it is possible to suggest a general trend from a sale like this. Here are some factors which may help us to approach some perspective: 1) eBay is not the most sophisticated arena, nor the one most favored by the truly affluent or even traditional collectors. 2) The copy offered on that sale actually looked quite nice to me. But, the seller did not appear to have exerted or chanced the effort to make the book look its best. In the "privacy of my own home," for example, I think I could have had that binding looking much better in a couple of hours. When we are dealing with so much money, I think little things like that make a difference. I suspect, also, that the photographs or scans of the book's pages unnaturally accentuated the contrast, and perhaps made it look more foxed or unsightly than in real life. Again, to engage in such expensive sales, one has to care enough to learn how to use the photo software, I feel. 3) My gut instinct, without knowing who the seller was, is that this was a reputable person offering an excellent Book of Mormon. But the endless exclamation points in the write-up, the loud screaming typeface in the description headlines, and the like, just don't inspire confidence in someone contemplating a risk of so much money, in my opinion. It is like crying wolf. If it was a great book, like I suspect it was, I think a more dignified, self-assured, less desperate presentation might have been more convincing. And now an anecdote. Not long before that sale ended, I received a long-distance phone call from one of the most elevated and revered names in the world of rare Mormon books. The caller was not certain what to make of that listing on eBay, and needed to advise a friend who wanted to bid on the book. The caller and I agreed that there were several problems with bidding on the book. Primarily, we didn't know who the seller was, so we didn't know if we could trust his collation and examination of the book. What if the book should arrive, and page 343-4 had a large hole in the middle of it? What if the seller refuses to take the book back after the flaw was discovered? It is just took risky. If the seller is legitimate (and again, my instinct was that he or she probably is), then why hide behind an anonymous facade/screenname? For this reason, I have wondered lately if I should change my own eBay "rickbook@aol.com" screenname to my own name. For the time being, I make a point to tell my name at the end of each item description which I run on eBay. I advised the "elevated and revered" person to tell his friend to e-mail the seller, and ask if the seller lived within a hundred miles or so (which under the circumstances we thought might be the case). If the seller would let the potential bidder come see the book in person before the sale ended, with the "elevated and revered" person along for the ride to advise him, then the man could bid with more confidence. I didn't hear how that turned out. RickBook Neither elevated nor revered, but relatively happy - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 27 Jan 2003 20:56:55 -0800 Here is the list. The first three items received 11 points. It was single digits from there. Inspirational The Miracle of Forgiveness - Kimball Believing Christ - Robinson Jesus The Christ - Talmage Standing for Something - Hinckley Approaching Zion - Nibley A Marvelous Work and a Wonder - Richards The Things that Matter Most - Bennion Voice of Warning - Pratt Hymnals - all editions The Abundance of the Heart - King Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner Personal Writings of Joseph Smith - Jesse Teachings of the Prophet Jos. Smith The Best of Lowell Bennion - England On Wings of Faith - Babbel Visions of Zion - Morrison Letters to WW Phelps - Cowdery Eternal Man - Madsen He Did Deliver Me from Bondage - Harrison Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England Elias - Whitney Journal of Heber C. Kimball Tolerance - Carmack Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints - Nibley How Can I Help - Bennion Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley Four Essays on Love - Madsen On the Way to Immortality - Clark World War II Experiences - Dunn The Mortal Messiah - McConkie Encyclopedia of Mormonism All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience-Maxwell Poems, Vols I & II, Snow From Quaker to Latter-day Saint - Arrington Spencer W. Kimball - Kimball Neal Maxwell Quotebook Lighten Up! Okazaki The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley Making Peace - England Unlocking the Powers of Faith - Allred Adventures of a Church Historian - Arrington Gospel Ideals - McKay Divine Center - Covey The Articles of Faith - Talmage Collected Works of Neal Maxwell - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan Adair" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Date: 27 Jan 2003 22:51:32 -0700 >>> EdlundMarkJ@uams.edu 1/27/2003 2:11:08 PM >>> > >This was the category I had the most difficulty with. In all the other categories >I had no problem coming up with 3 titles, but I was kind of stumped in this category. >Finally I asked myself "Who has been the most inspirational church speaker or >writer you have heard or read". The name that immediately came to mind was >Elder Paul Dunn. However, it was difficult to pick one of his titles. This was >complicated by the fact that much of his best stuff was just on tape. Finally I >settled on his talk "World War II Experiences", which is only on tape. However, >I also listed one of his articles in the New Era that dealt with the same material. Sounds like the same line of thinking I went through. I even went to the BYU library catalog to see if I could find a Paul H. Dunn title that would rate as important. I found _I Promise You. . . I Challenge You_ that was pretty popular when I was a teen, and _The Ten Most Wanted Men_ that was popular among my parents' generation (published in '67), but nothing really jumped out at me. Maybe he should get a lifetime achievement award for his body of work. MBA - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Morgan Adair" Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 27 Jan 2003 23:01:40 -0700 Can I change my vote? I think I'd go with 1. Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner 2. How Can I Help - Bennion 3. (tie) Four Essays on Love - Madsen Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England MBA >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 1/27/2003 9:56:55 PM >>> Here is the list. The first three items received 11 points. It was single digits from there. Inspirational The Miracle of Forgiveness - Kimball Believing Christ - Robinson Jesus The Christ - Talmage Standing for Something - Hinckley Approaching Zion - Nibley A Marvelous Work and a Wonder - Richards The Things that Matter Most - Bennion Voice of Warning - Pratt Hymnals - all editions The Abundance of the Heart - King Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner Personal Writings of Joseph Smith - Jesse Teachings of the Prophet Jos. Smith The Best of Lowell Bennion - England On Wings of Faith - Babbel Visions of Zion - Morrison Letters to WW Phelps - Cowdery Eternal Man - Madsen He Did Deliver Me from Bondage - Harrison Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England Elias - Whitney Journal of Heber C. Kimball Tolerance - Carmack Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints - Nibley How Can I Help - Bennion Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley Four Essays on Love - Madsen On the Way to Immortality - Clark World War II Experiences - Dunn The Mortal Messiah - McConkie Encyclopedia of Mormonism All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience-Maxwell Poems, Vols I & II, Snow From Quaker to Latter-day Saint - Arrington Spencer W. Kimball - Kimball Neal Maxwell Quotebook Lighten Up! Okazaki The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley Making Peace - England Unlocking the Powers of Faith - Allred Adventures of a Church Historian - Arrington Gospel Ideals - McKay Divine Center - Covey The Articles of Faith - Talmage Collected Works of Neal Maxwell - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey Date: 27 Jan 2003 22:05:08 -0800 Yet no one picked Fascinating Womanhood. I'm crushed! -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Morgan Adair Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:52 PM >>> EdlundMarkJ@uams.edu 1/27/2003 2:11:08 PM >>> > >This was the category I had the most difficulty with. In all the other categories >I had no problem coming up with 3 titles, but I was kind of stumped in this category. >Finally I asked myself "Who has been the most inspirational church speaker or >writer you have heard or read". The name that immediately came to mind was >Elder Paul Dunn. However, it was difficult to pick one of his titles. This was >complicated by the fact that much of his best stuff was just on tape. Finally I >settled on his talk "World War II Experiences", which is only on tape. However, >I also listed one of his articles in the New Era that dealt with the same material. Sounds like the same line of thinking I went through. I even went to the BYU library catalog to see if I could find a Paul H. Dunn title that would rate as important. I found _I Promise You. . . I Challenge You_ that was pretty popular when I was a teen, and _The Ten Most Wanted Men_ that was popular among my parents' generation (published in '67), but nothing really jumped out at me. Maybe he should get a lifetime achievement award for his body of work. MBA - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 27 Jan 2003 22:11:36 -0800 You're getting there. Christ's Ideals for Living was on my list. Easily my favorite lesson manual. I've often thought that pre-correlation lesson manuals would be an interesting collecting niche. While some, like the Seventies Course in Theology, are a bit pricey, many with excellent content from authors like Sperry, Talmage, Widtsoe, etc., can be had for a few bucks. Keith -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Morgan Adair Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:02 PM Can I change my vote? I think I'd go with 1. Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner 2. How Can I Help - Bennion 3. (tie) Four Essays on Love - Madsen Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England MBA >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 1/27/2003 9:56:55 PM >>> Here is the list. The first three items received 11 points. It was single digits from there. Inspirational The Miracle of Forgiveness - Kimball Believing Christ - Robinson Jesus The Christ - Talmage Standing for Something - Hinckley Approaching Zion - Nibley A Marvelous Work and a Wonder - Richards The Things that Matter Most - Bennion Voice of Warning - Pratt Hymnals - all editions The Abundance of the Heart - King Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner Personal Writings of Joseph Smith - Jesse Teachings of the Prophet Jos. Smith The Best of Lowell Bennion - England On Wings of Faith - Babbel Visions of Zion - Morrison Letters to WW Phelps - Cowdery Eternal Man - Madsen He Did Deliver Me from Bondage - Harrison Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England Elias - Whitney Journal of Heber C. Kimball Tolerance - Carmack Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints - Nibley How Can I Help - Bennion Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley Four Essays on Love - Madsen On the Way to Immortality - Clark World War II Experiences - Dunn The Mortal Messiah - McConkie Encyclopedia of Mormonism All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience-Maxwell Poems, Vols I & II, Snow From Quaker to Latter-day Saint - Arrington Spencer W. Kimball - Kimball Neal Maxwell Quotebook Lighten Up! Okazaki The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley Making Peace - England Unlocking the Powers of Faith - Allred Adventures of a Church Historian - Arrington Gospel Ideals - McKay Divine Center - Covey The Articles of Faith - Talmage Collected Works of Neal Maxwell - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: Re: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 28 Jan 2003 8:57:19 -0500 You mean like a Congressman? You reserve the right to amend and add to your remarks? Actually, I think it would be interesting to see how the rankings would change if we all got the right to change our votes after seeing the results. I know I have a couple of votes I'd change. You don't have anything else to do, Keith. Right? Hugh > > From: "Morgan Adair" > Date: 2003/01/28 Tue AM 01:01:40 EST > To: > Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books > > Can I change my vote? I think I'd go with > > 1. Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner > 2. How Can I Help - Bennion > 3. (tie) Four Essays on Love - Madsen > Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England > > MBA > > >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 1/27/2003 9:56:55 PM >>> > Here is the list. The first three items received 11 points. It was > single > digits from there. > > Inspirational > The Miracle of Forgiveness - Kimball > Believing Christ - Robinson > Jesus The Christ - Talmage > Standing for Something - Hinckley > Approaching Zion - Nibley > A Marvelous Work and a Wonder - Richards > The Things that Matter Most - Bennion > Voice of Warning - Pratt > Hymnals - all editions > The Abundance of the Heart - King > Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner > Personal Writings of Joseph Smith - Jesse > Teachings of the Prophet Jos. Smith > The Best of Lowell Bennion - England > On Wings of Faith - Babbel > Visions of Zion - Morrison > Letters to WW Phelps - Cowdery > Eternal Man - Madsen > He Did Deliver Me from Bondage - Harrison > Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England > Elias - Whitney > Journal of Heber C. Kimball > Tolerance - Carmack > Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints - Nibley > How Can I Help - Bennion > Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley > Four Essays on Love - Madsen > On the Way to Immortality - Clark > World War II Experiences - Dunn > The Mortal Messiah - McConkie > Encyclopedia of Mormonism > All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience-Maxwell > Poems, Vols I & II, Snow > From Quaker to Latter-day Saint - Arrington > Spencer W. Kimball - Kimball > Neal Maxwell Quotebook > Lighten Up! Okazaki > The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley > Making Peace - England > Unlocking the Powers of Faith - Allred > Adventures of a Church Historian - Arrington > Gospel Ideals - McKay > Divine Center - Covey > The Articles of Faith - Talmage > Collected Works of Neal Maxwell > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 28 Jan 2003 10:38:51 EST In a message dated 1/28/03 1:12:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes: << I've often thought that pre-correlation lesson manuals would be an interesting collecting niche. While some, like the Seventies Course in Theology, are a bit pricey, many with excellent content from authors like Sperry, Talmage, Widtsoe, etc., can be had for a few bucks. Keith >> An excellent idea! Book collecting, at its most admirable, depends upon original topic selection, enterprising book searching, and less money than exertion and long suffering. - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 28 Jan 2003 09:05:51 -0700 I think Christ's Ideals for Living is one of the most underrated books in Mormondom. It has been years since I read it, but recall that it had a deep impression on me. If my memory serves me well, Obert Tanner died an unbeliever. Was he a believer when he wrote the book? Roy Schmidt >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 01/27/03 11:11PM >>> You're getting there. Christ's Ideals for Living was on my list. Easily my favorite lesson manual. I've often thought that pre-correlation lesson manuals would be an interesting collecting niche. While some, like the Seventies Course in Theology, are a bit pricey, many with excellent content from authors like Sperry, Talmage, Widtsoe, etc., can be had for a few bucks. Keith -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Morgan Adair Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:02 PM Can I change my vote? I think I'd go with 1. Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner 2. How Can I Help - Bennion 3. (tie) Four Essays on Love - Madsen Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England MBA >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 1/27/2003 9:56:55 PM >>> Here is the list. The first three items received 11 points. It was single digits from there. Inspirational The Miracle of Forgiveness - Kimball Believing Christ - Robinson Jesus The Christ - Talmage Standing for Something - Hinckley Approaching Zion - Nibley A Marvelous Work and a Wonder - Richards The Things that Matter Most - Bennion Voice of Warning - Pratt Hymnals - all editions The Abundance of the Heart - King Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner Personal Writings of Joseph Smith - Jesse Teachings of the Prophet Jos. Smith The Best of Lowell Bennion - England On Wings of Faith - Babbel Visions of Zion - Morrison Letters to WW Phelps - Cowdery Eternal Man - Madsen He Did Deliver Me from Bondage - Harrison Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England Elias - Whitney Journal of Heber C. Kimball Tolerance - Carmack Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints - Nibley How Can I Help - Bennion Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley Four Essays on Love - Madsen On the Way to Immortality - Clark World War II Experiences - Dunn The Mortal Messiah - McConkie Encyclopedia of Mormonism All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience-Maxwell Poems, Vols I & II, Snow From Quaker to Latter-day Saint - Arrington Spencer W. Kimball - Kimball Neal Maxwell Quotebook Lighten Up! Okazaki The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley Making Peace - England Unlocking the Powers of Faith - Allred Adventures of a Church Historian - Arrington Gospel Ideals - McKay Divine Center - Covey The Articles of Faith - Talmage Collected Works of Neal Maxwell - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 28 Jan 2003 09:10:59 -0700 When I joined the Church, J. Reuben Clark's _On the Way to Immortality and Eternal Life_ was the priesthood text, and one that I really enjoyed. Sperry's _Compendium on the Doctrine and Covenants_ was the first doctrinal book that I bought. I believe I paid about $3.95 new. It is still my favorite D&C book, but I don't recall that it was ever printed as a manual. Roy Schmidt >>> RickBook@aol.com 01/28/03 08:38AM >>> In a message dated 1/28/03 1:12:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes: << I've often thought that pre-correlation lesson manuals would be an interesting collecting niche. While some, like the Seventies Course in Theology, are a bit pricey, many with excellent content from authors like Sperry, Talmage, Widtsoe, etc., can be had for a few bucks. Keith >> An excellent idea! Book collecting, at its most admirable, depends upon original topic selection, enterprising book searching, and less money than exertion and long suffering. - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 28 Jan 2003 10:42:24 -0600 Roy, I think the key term that needs to be defined is "believer". Believer in what? The first vision and gold plates? Christianity? God? Obert was the Sunday School teacher for my parent's SS class before I was born. They say the classes were the most intellectually stimulating classes they have ever had in the church, but not necessarily unorthodox or steeped in disbelief. While Obert may have been circumspect, I do not think he would have taught or written something that he did not believe at all at the time. My guess is that during this period his beliefs were evolving, perhaps rapidly, but he had not rejected the belief in that which he was writing about, and maybe he never did. Certainly he was always friendly to the church, at least at the local level, as I remember going over to firesides that were held in his yard. However, perhaps someone with some actual data on the subject has a different viewpoint. BTW, I think Tanner really merits a biography. In a lot of ways I think he was even a more interesting person than McMurrin. Unlike McMurrin, IIRC, Tanner grew up in wrenching poverty and had to overcome a lot of obstacles. Further, his adult life was marked by tragedy of the highest order, despite his highly successful career. Finally, IMO, the legacy he left was considerable. I agree with Roy, Christ's Ideals for Living is highly underrated; in terms of moral philosophy, which in the end religion is all about, I think the only other writings that compare are the best stuff of Lowell Bennion. On the secular front, the lectures he sponsors each year at various universities are some of the academic highlights at those institutions. I remember with no small amount of nostalgia attending the Tanner lectures when I was a student at the University of Michigan. Mark Edlund -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:06 AM I think Christ's Ideals for Living is one of the most underrated books in Mormondom. It has been years since I read it, but recall that it had a deep impression on me. If my memory serves me well, Obert Tanner died an unbeliever. Was he a believer when he wrote the book? Roy Schmidt >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 01/27/03 11:11PM >>> You're getting there. Christ's Ideals for Living was on my list. Easily my favorite lesson manual. I've often thought that pre-correlation lesson manuals would be an interesting collecting niche. While some, like the Seventies Course in Theology, are a bit pricey, many with excellent content from authors like Sperry, Talmage, Widtsoe, etc., can be had for a few bucks. Keith -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Morgan Adair Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:02 PM Can I change my vote? I think I'd go with 1. Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner 2. How Can I Help - Bennion 3. (tie) Four Essays on Love - Madsen Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England MBA >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 1/27/2003 9:56:55 PM >>> Here is the list. The first three items received 11 points. It was single digits from there. Inspirational The Miracle of Forgiveness - Kimball Believing Christ - Robinson Jesus The Christ - Talmage Standing for Something - Hinckley Approaching Zion - Nibley A Marvelous Work and a Wonder - Richards The Things that Matter Most - Bennion Voice of Warning - Pratt Hymnals - all editions The Abundance of the Heart - King Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner Personal Writings of Joseph Smith - Jesse Teachings of the Prophet Jos. Smith The Best of Lowell Bennion - England On Wings of Faith - Babbel Visions of Zion - Morrison Letters to WW Phelps - Cowdery Eternal Man - Madsen He Did Deliver Me from Bondage - Harrison Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England Elias - Whitney Journal of Heber C. Kimball Tolerance - Carmack Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints - Nibley How Can I Help - Bennion Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley Four Essays on Love - Madsen On the Way to Immortality - Clark World War II Experiences - Dunn The Mortal Messiah - McConkie Encyclopedia of Mormonism All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience-Maxwell Poems, Vols I & II, Snow From Quaker to Latter-day Saint - Arrington Spencer W. Kimball - Kimball Neal Maxwell Quotebook Lighten Up! Okazaki The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley Making Peace - England Unlocking the Powers of Faith - Allred Adventures of a Church Historian - Arrington Gospel Ideals - McKay Divine Center - Covey The Articles of Faith - Talmage Collected Works of Neal Maxwell - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ROY SCHMIDT" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 28 Jan 2003 12:03:45 -0700 Mark, I suppose that I should have been more specific. My definition of a believer includes angels and gold plates, the first vision, a real Lehi and family, etc. My understanding is that by the time he died, he did not believe. That said, I feel that he was a wonderfully moral man, who was friendly to the Church and to the community. In fact, his family and the company that he founded are still doing wonderful things in the community. Recently, the Tanner Family Trust sponsored a performance of Mahler's 8th symphony that featured the Utah Symphony and 835 performers. The Tabernacle really "rocked" that night. Roy Schmidt >>> EdlundMarkJ@uams.edu 01/28/03 09:42AM >>> Roy, I think the key term that needs to be defined is "believer". Believer in what? The first vision and gold plates? Christianity? God? Obert was the Sunday School teacher for my parent's SS class before I was born. They say the classes were the most intellectually stimulating classes they have ever had in the church, but not necessarily unorthodox or steeped in disbelief. While Obert may have been circumspect, I do not think he would have taught or written something that he did not believe at all at the time. My guess is that during this period his beliefs were evolving, perhaps rapidly, but he had not rejected the belief in that which he was writing about, and maybe he never did. Certainly he was always friendly to the church, at least at the local level, as I remember going over to firesides that were held in his yard. However, perhaps someone with some actual data on the subject has a different viewpoint. BTW, I think Tanner really merits a biography. In a lot of ways I think he was even a more interesting person than McMurrin. Unlike McMurrin, IIRC, Tanner grew up in wrenching poverty and had to overcome a lot of obstacles. Further, his adult life was marked by tragedy of the highest order, despite his highly successful career. Finally, IMO, the legacy he left was considerable. I agree with Roy, Christ's Ideals for Living is highly underrated; in terms of moral philosophy, which in the end religion is all about, I think the only other writings that compare are the best stuff of Lowell Bennion. On the secular front, the lectures he sponsors each year at various universities are some of the academic highlights at those institutions. I remember with no small amount of nostalgia attending the Tanner lectures when I was a student at the University of Michigan. Mark Edlund -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:06 AM I think Christ's Ideals for Living is one of the most underrated books in Mormondom. It has been years since I read it, but recall that it had a deep impression on me. If my memory serves me well, Obert Tanner died an unbeliever. Was he a believer when he wrote the book? Roy Schmidt >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 01/27/03 11:11PM >>> You're getting there. Christ's Ideals for Living was on my list. Easily my favorite lesson manual. I've often thought that pre-correlation lesson manuals would be an interesting collecting niche. While some, like the Seventies Course in Theology, are a bit pricey, many with excellent content from authors like Sperry, Talmage, Widtsoe, etc., can be had for a few bucks. Keith -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Morgan Adair Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:02 PM Can I change my vote? I think I'd go with 1. Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner 2. How Can I Help - Bennion 3. (tie) Four Essays on Love - Madsen Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England MBA >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 1/27/2003 9:56:55 PM >>> Here is the list. The first three items received 11 points. It was single digits from there. Inspirational The Miracle of Forgiveness - Kimball Believing Christ - Robinson Jesus The Christ - Talmage Standing for Something - Hinckley Approaching Zion - Nibley A Marvelous Work and a Wonder - Richards The Things that Matter Most - Bennion Voice of Warning - Pratt Hymnals - all editions The Abundance of the Heart - King Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner Personal Writings of Joseph Smith - Jesse Teachings of the Prophet Jos. Smith The Best of Lowell Bennion - England On Wings of Faith - Babbel Visions of Zion - Morrison Letters to WW Phelps - Cowdery Eternal Man - Madsen He Did Deliver Me from Bondage - Harrison Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England Elias - Whitney Journal of Heber C. Kimball Tolerance - Carmack Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints - Nibley How Can I Help - Bennion Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley Four Essays on Love - Madsen On the Way to Immortality - Clark World War II Experiences - Dunn The Mortal Messiah - McConkie Encyclopedia of Mormonism All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience-Maxwell Poems, Vols I & II, Snow From Quaker to Latter-day Saint - Arrington Spencer W. Kimball - Kimball Neal Maxwell Quotebook Lighten Up! Okazaki The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley Making Peace - England Unlocking the Powers of Faith - Allred Adventures of a Church Historian - Arrington Gospel Ideals - McKay Divine Center - Covey The Articles of Faith - Talmage Collected Works of Neal Maxwell - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hugh Stocks" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 28 Jan 2003 10:02:41 -0500 I strongly recommend a reading of Tanner's autobiography: _One Man's Journey In Search of Freedom,_ published by the Humanities Center at the University of Utah in 1994. He is very open about his faith (or lack thereof), and talks about his resistance to writing _Christ's Ideals for Living_ until he was personally asked to do it by Pres. McKay. When he said he didn't think he could write anything that would pass "the reading committee," he quotes Pres. McKay as saying "Then we'll get another committee." Interesting man, interesting book. He was well matched with his good buddies Sterling McMurrin and Brig Madsen. On 28 Jan 2003 at 12:03, ROY SCHMIDT stepped forward and proclaimed: > Mark, > > I suppose that I should have been more specific. My definition of a > believer includes angels and gold plates, the first vision, a real > Lehi and family, etc. My understanding is that by the time he died, he > did not believe. That said, I feel that he was a wonderfully moral > man, who was friendly to the Church and to the community. In fact, his > family and the company that he founded are still doing wonderful > things in the community. Recently, the Tanner Family Trust sponsored a > performance of Mahler's 8th symphony that featured the Utah Symphony > and 835 performers. The Tabernacle really "rocked" that night. > > Roy Schmidt > > >>> EdlundMarkJ@uams.edu 01/28/03 09:42AM >>> > Roy, I think the key term that needs to be defined is "believer". > Believer in what? The first vision and gold plates? Christianity? > God? Obert was the Sunday School teacher for my parent's SS class > before I was born. They say the classes were the most intellectually > stimulating classes they have ever had in the church, but not > necessarily unorthodox or steeped in disbelief. While Obert may have > been circumspect, I do not think he would have taught or written > something that he did not believe at all at the time. My guess is > that during this period his beliefs were evolving, perhaps rapidly, > but he had not rejected the belief in that which he was writing about, > and maybe he never did. Certainly he was always friendly to the > church, at least at the local level, as I remember going over to > firesides that were held in his yard. However, perhaps someone with > some actual data on the subject has a different viewpoint. > > BTW, I think Tanner really merits a biography. In a lot of ways I > think he was even a more interesting person than McMurrin. Unlike > McMurrin, IIRC, Tanner grew up in wrenching poverty and had to > overcome a lot of obstacles. Further, his adult life was marked by > tragedy of the highest order, despite his highly successful career. > Finally, IMO, the legacy he left was considerable. I agree with Roy, > Christ's Ideals for Living is highly underrated; in terms of moral > philosophy, which in the end religion is all about, I think the only > other writings that compare are the best stuff of Lowell Bennion. On > the secular front, the lectures he sponsors each year at various > universities are some of the academic highlights at those > institutions. I remember with no small amount of nostalgia attending > the Tanner lectures when I was a student at the University of > Michigan. > > Mark Edlund > > -----Original Message----- > From: ROY SCHMIDT [mailto:roy_schmidt@byu.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 10:06 AM > To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books > > I think Christ's Ideals for Living is one of the most underrated > books > in Mormondom. It has been years since I read it, but recall that it > had a deep impression on me. If my memory serves me well, Obert Tanner > died an unbeliever. Was he a believer when he wrote the book? > > Roy Schmidt > > >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 01/27/03 11:11PM >>> > You're getting there. Christ's Ideals for Living was on my list. > Easily my favorite lesson manual. > > I've often thought that pre-correlation lesson manuals would be an > interesting collecting niche. While some, like the Seventies Course > in Theology, are a bit pricey, many with excellent content from > authors like Sperry, Talmage, Widtsoe, etc., can be had for a few > bucks. > > Keith > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Morgan > Adair Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 10:02 PM To: > lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - > inspirational books > > Can I change my vote? I think I'd go with > > 1. Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner > 2. How Can I Help - Bennion > 3. (tie) Four Essays on Love - Madsen > Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England > > MBA > > >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 1/27/2003 9:56:55 PM >>> > Here is the list. The first three items received 11 points. It was > single digits from there. > > Inspirational > The Miracle of Forgiveness - Kimball > Believing Christ - Robinson > Jesus The Christ - Talmage > Standing for Something - Hinckley > Approaching Zion - Nibley > A Marvelous Work and a Wonder - Richards > The Things that Matter Most - Bennion > Voice of Warning - Pratt > Hymnals - all editions > The Abundance of the Heart - King > Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner > Personal Writings of Joseph Smith - Jesse > Teachings of the Prophet Jos. Smith > The Best of Lowell Bennion - England > On Wings of Faith - Babbel > Visions of Zion - Morrison > Letters to WW Phelps - Cowdery > Eternal Man - Madsen > He Did Deliver Me from Bondage - Harrison > Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England > Elias - Whitney > Journal of Heber C. Kimball > Tolerance - Carmack > Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints - Nibley > How Can I Help - Bennion > Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley > Four Essays on Love - Madsen > On the Way to Immortality - Clark > World War II Experiences - Dunn > The Mortal Messiah - McConkie > Encyclopedia of Mormonism > All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience-Maxwell > Poems, Vols I & II, Snow > From Quaker to Latter-day Saint - Arrington > Spencer W. Kimball - Kimball > Neal Maxwell Quotebook > Lighten Up! Okazaki > The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley > Making Peace - England > Unlocking the Powers of Faith - Allred > Adventures of a Church Historian - Arrington > Gospel Ideals - McKay > Divine Center - Covey > The Articles of Faith - Talmage > Collected Works of Neal Maxwell > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message > body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message > body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message > body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message > body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message > body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" -- Hugh Stocks hstocks@fuse.net - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 28 Jan 2003 20:55:14 -0800 You're right, Hugh. But if anyone wants to recast their vote, why not = make the case in an e-mail to the shelf. What would you change and why? -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of hstocks@fuse.net Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 5:57 AM You mean like a Congressman? You reserve the right to amend and add to = your remarks? Actually, I think it would be interesting to see how the rankings would change if we all got the right to change our votes after seeing the = results. I know I have a couple of votes I'd change. You don't have anything else to do, Keith. Right? Hugh >=20 > From: "Morgan Adair" > Date: 2003/01/28 Tue AM 01:01:40 EST > To: > Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books >=20 > Can I change my vote? I think I'd go with >=20 > 1. Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner > 2. How Can I Help - Bennion > 3. (tie) Four Essays on Love - Madsen > Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England >=20 > MBA >=20 > >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 1/27/2003 9:56:55 PM >>> > Here is the list. The first three items received 11 points. It was > single > digits from there. =20 >=20 > Inspirational > The Miracle of Forgiveness - Kimball > Believing Christ - Robinson > Jesus The Christ - Talmage > Standing for Something - Hinckley > Approaching Zion - Nibley > A Marvelous Work and a Wonder - Richards > The Things that Matter Most - Bennion > Voice of Warning - Pratt > Hymnals - all editions > The Abundance of the Heart - King > Christ's Ideals for Living - Tanner > Personal Writings of Joseph Smith - Jesse > Teachings of the Prophet Jos. Smith > The Best of Lowell Bennion - England > On Wings of Faith - Babbel > Visions of Zion - Morrison > Letters to WW Phelps - Cowdery > Eternal Man - Madsen > He Did Deliver Me from Bondage - Harrison > Why the Church is as True as the Gospel - England > Elias - Whitney > Journal of Heber C. Kimball > Tolerance - Carmack > Brother Brigham Challenges the Saints - Nibley > How Can I Help - Bennion > Teachings of Gordon B. Hinckley > Four Essays on Love - Madsen > On the Way to Immortality - Clark > World War II Experiences - Dunn > The Mortal Messiah - McConkie > Encyclopedia of Mormonism > All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience-Maxwell > Poems, Vols I & II, Snow > From Quaker to Latter-day Saint - Arrington > Spencer W. Kimball - Kimball > Neal Maxwell Quotebook > Lighten Up! Okazaki > The Collected Works of Hugh Nibley > Making Peace - England > Unlocking the Powers of Faith - Allred > Adventures of a Church Historian - Arrington > Gospel Ideals - McKay > Divine Center - Covey > The Articles of Faith - Talmage > Collected Works of Neal Maxwell >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" >=20 - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 28 Jan 2003 22:05:20 -0700 Did you post the fiction list yet? I don't recall seeing it. - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] survey - inspirational books Date: 28 Jan 2003 22:10:40 -0800 Yes. I sent it on January 21st. If you can't find it, let me know and I'll e-mail you a copy. Giant Joshua was the clear winner. Not much agreement after that. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Clark Goble Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 9:05 PM Did you post the fiction list yet? I don't recall seeing it. - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Cahoon Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Book Prices in Dallas Date: 31 Jan 2003 10:27:52 -0800 (PST) I think I mentioned before that there is a large used book store in downtown (right across from the square) Denton - jsut north-west of Dallas. --Doug --- Steve Eccles wrote: > If anyone is interested, I went to the local LDS > Bookstore, Moon Book's (it used to be a Deseret Book > Store, but they sold out to Moon -- I believe he had > a store before Deseret Book came into town anyway), > and found some used books. I was very curious about > prices, so made the following comparisons: > > TITLE > DALLAS STORE > ABE > DESERET BOOK > AMAZON > > Mormon Docterine - 1st ed. > $875 - uncertain if it has dustjacket > $295 - $600 > None > None > > Selected Manifestations > $750 > $585 - $625 > None > None > > Fate of the Persecuters - 1st > $85 > $63 - $65 > None > $43 - $59 > > Bruce R. McConkie bio by Eborn > $9.95 > $15 - $29.95 > None > $27.97 - $29.97 > > Message of the J.S. Papyrus by Nibley > $295.00 > $100 - $190 > None > $195 - $200 > > > > I don't think I'll be using this source for rare > books very soon. I'm ready to conclude that he > really doesn't want to sell these books, but likes > showing them off. Some were in a glass topped coffee > table by occasional chairs he uses for a reading > area. > > He also had some leather bound titles that he won't > allow customers to examine, but Moon was in Utah, > and his staff had no idea how much he wanted for > them. > > However, if anyone wants a copy of the McConkie > biography, this is a good source. He had several > copies I believe still in plastic wrappers. > > I'm still looking for good stores in this area, so > if you have any ideas, I'd really welcome them. > > I understand a famous author has several warehouses > of books about 120 miles from here. A friend from > work went there and his biggest comment was that > they were unheated and it was very cold in them. I'm > off there in the next couple of weekends. > > --Steve > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. 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