From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] No Other Gift Date: 04 Jul 2003 19:10:46 -0500 There is an article in the Salt Lake Tribune re Jon Krakauer's new book for those who are interested. Mark Edlund - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Snow, Donald R." Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Memorial for Chad Flake on Wed, 7/9/03 Date: 06 Jul 2003 11:56:23 -0600 Here's a note from the Y News about a memorial for Chad Flake on Wednesday, 9 July, 3 PM in the HBLL Auditorium. Don Snow The campus community is invited to a memorial service in honor of Chad J. Flake who died June 18, 2003... Visit "Campus Notes" in http://www.byu.edu/news/ynews/ Dr. Donald R. Snow, Dept of Mathematics, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah 84602 (office phone (801) 422-2366, home phone in Provo (801) 225-7123), snowd@math.byu.edu, drs31@juno.com -- temporarily on a Family History Mission at St. George Regional Family History Center, St. George, Utah (home phone in St. George (435) 673-1932) - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Today's SL Trib Date: 13 Jul 2003 11:09:23 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C34959.202AF8F0 Content-Type: text/plain Today's Salt Lake Tribune has a piece written by the Jon Krakauer, responding to the church's comments on his book. Also they print excerpts of the comments of Richard Turley, managing director of the church's Family and Church History Department, and Michael Otterson, director of media relations for the church. The book seems to be generating a fair amount of interest. Part of it is being excerpted in the current GQ. It has been mentioned by or reviewed by national newspapers such as USA Today. In fact, the person who wrote the summer book section for USA Today said that it was the book he or she was most looking forward to reading this summer. It was also reviewed in the most recent Outside Magazine. So far all of the national reviews I have seen were positive. Somewhere I read that the first printing was 350,000, so obviously this one is never going to be collectible. Mark Edlund ------_=_NextPart_001_01C34959.202AF8F0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Today’s Salt Lake Tribune has a piece written by the Jon Krakauer, responding = to the church’s comments on his book. = Also they print excerpts of the comments of Richard Turley, managing director of the church's Family and Church History = Department, and Michael Otterson, director of media relations for the = church.

The book seems = to be generating a fair amount of interest. Part of it is being excerpted in the current GQ. = It has been mentioned by or = reviewed by national newspapers such as USA Today. In fact, the person who wrote the summer book section for USA = Today said that it was the book he or she was most looking forward to reading this summer. It was also = reviewed in the most recent Outside Magazine. So far all of the national reviews I have seen were = positive.

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]>

<= span style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'> &nbs= p; Somewhere I read that the first printing was 350,000, so obviously this one is = never going to be collectible.

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]>

<= span style=3D'mso-tab-count:1'> &nbs= p; Mark Edlund

------_=_NextPart_001_01C34959.202AF8F0-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Today's SL Trib Date: 13 Jul 2003 14:25:18 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3494A.98C71FA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I got an e-mail from the regional public affairs office noting that two books were being released that might prompt inquiries from the news = media. One was Krakauer's book. The other was Sally Denton's AN AMERICAN = MASSACRE =20 Krakauer's book seems to be of more concern. It is apparently on a lot = of newspapers' summer reading lists. The Church's rebuttal can be found = at: . http://www.lds.org/newsroom/extra/0,15505,4028-1---2-748,00.html =20 Denton is going to appear on CSPAN on July 19th and they wanted some = people who knew a bit about MMM to call in with some questions using Ron = Walker's retort to her NYTimes article as a guide. Fortunately or unfortunately, = the CSPAN piece was already taped, so there won't be any questions from = callers, at least not from me. =20 I just started reading Denton and am finding it somewhat disappointing. When I finish, I'll post more. =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message-----=20 [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Edlund, = Mark J Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 8:09 AM =20 Today's Salt Lake Tribune has a piece written by the Jon Krakauer, responding to the church's comments on his book. Also they print = excerpts of the comments of Richard Turley, managing director of the church's = Family and Church History Department, and Michael Otterson, director of media relations for the church. =20 The book seems to be generating a fair amount of interest. Part of it = is being excerpted in the current GQ. It has been mentioned by or reviewed = by national newspapers such as USA Today. In fact, the person who wrote = the summer book section for USA Today said that it was the book he or she = was most looking forward to reading this summer. It was also reviewed in = the most recent Outside Magazine. So far all of the national reviews I have seen were positive. =20 =20 Somewhere I read that the first printing was 350,000, so obviously this one is never going to be collectible. =20 Mark Edlund ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3494A.98C71FA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I got an e-mail = from the regional public affairs office noting that two books were being released = that might prompt inquiries from the news media. One was Krakauer’s book. The other was Sally Denton’s AN AMERICAN = MASSACRE

Krakauer’s book seems to be = of more concern. It is apparently on a lot of newspapers’ summer = reading lists. The Church’s rebuttal can be found at: . = http://www.lds.org/newsroom/extra/0,15505,4028-1---2-748,00.html

Denton is going to appear on CSPAN on July 19^th and = they wanted some people who knew a bit about MMM to call in with some = questions using Ron Walker’s retort to her NYTimes article as a guide. Fortunately or unfortunately, the CSPAN piece was already taped, so = there won’t be any questions from callers, at least not from me.

I just started reading = Denton and am finding = it somewhat disappointing. When I finish, I’ll post more. =

-----Original Message----- =
From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmissio= n.com = [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmissio= n.com] On Behalf Of Edlund, Mark J
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 8:09 = AM
To: 'lds-bookshelf@lists.xmissio= n.com'
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] = Today's SL Trib

Today’s Salt Lake Tribune has a piece written by the Jon Krakauer, responding to = the church’s comments on his book. Also they print excerpts of = the comments of Richard Turley, managing director of the church's Family and Church = History Department, and Michael = Otterson, director of media relations for the church.

The book seems to be generating a fair amount of interest. Part of it is = being excerpted in the current GQ. It has been mentioned by or reviewed = by national newspapers such as USA Today. In fact, the person who = wrote the summer book section for USA Today said that it was the book he or she = was most looking forward to reading this summer. It was also reviewed in = the most recent Outside Magazine. So far all of the national reviews I have = seen were positive.

&nbs= p; Somewhere I read that the first printing was 350,000, so obviously this one is = never going to be collectible.

&nbs= p; Mark Edlund

------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C3494A.98C71FA0-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Today's SL Trib Date: 13 Jul 2003 17:57:47 EDT --part1_76.2f8edfbd.2c432fdb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 7/13/2003 5:26:15 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20 irwinkw@earthlink.net writes: > Denton is going to appear on CSPAN on July 19th and they wanted some peopl= e=20 > who knew a bit about MMM to call in with some questions using Ron Walker= =E2=80=99s=20 > retort to her NYTimes article as a guide. Fortunately or unfortunately, t= he=20 > CSPAN piece was already taped, so there won=E2=80=99t be any questions fro= m callers,=20 > at least not from me. Agreed. There are times when issues other than the content of a book begin=20 to loom more ominously than any errors said book could promulgate, I think. --part1_76.2f8edfbd.2c432fdb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en In a message dated 7/13/2003 5:26:15 PM Eastern Standa= rd Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes:

Denton is going to appear on CSPAN on July 19th and they wa= nted some people who knew a bit about MMM to call in with some questions usi= ng Ron Walker=E2=80=99s retort to her NYTimes article as a guide. Fort= unately or unfortunately, the CSPAN piece was already taped, so there won= =E2=80=99t be any questions from callers, at least not from me.

=

Agreed. There are times when issues other than the content of a book b= egin to loom more ominously than any errors said book could promulgate, I th= ink. --part1_76.2f8edfbd.2c432fdb_boundary-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Today's SL Trib Date: 13 Jul 2003 16:07:22 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C34958.DB607FB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walker made some good points - she ignored the MMM resources in the = church archives completely. McKell says that at an SLC book signing she = claimed there was no need for archival research since everything known about MMM = has been written elsewhere. This is the same sort of mentality that led = William Wise to think he could simply lock himself in a hotel room with all the eastern press articles on MMM and produce a credible book. Or maybe = these guys don't worry about fine points like trying to get it right as long = as they produce a book that sells well. The popular market is not the = academic market. =20 =20 That, for me, would be a more "ominous issue." =20 -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of RickBook@aol.com Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 1:58 PM =20 In a message dated 7/13/2003 5:26:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes: Denton is going to appear on CSPAN on July 19th and they wanted some = people who knew a bit about MMM to call in with some questions using Ron = Walker's retort to her NYTimes article as a guide. Fortunately or unfortunately, = the CSPAN piece was already taped, so there won't be any questions from = callers, at least not from me. Agreed. There are times when issues other than the content of a book = begin to loom more ominously than any errors said book could promulgate, I = think. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C34958.DB607FB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Walker made some good points – she ignored the MMM resources = in the church archives completely. McKell says that at an SLC book = signing she claimed there was no need for archival research since everything known about MMM = has been written elsewhere. This is the same sort of mentality that = led William Wise to think he could simply lock himself in a hotel room with = all the eastern press articles on MMM and produce a credible book. Or = maybe these guys don’t worry about fine points like trying to get it right as long as they = produce a book that sells well. The popular market is not the academic = market.

That, for me, would be a more = “ominous issue.”

-----Original = Message-----
From: = owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of RickBook@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 1:58 = PM
To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: = [LDS-Bookshelf] Today's SL Trib

In a message dated = 7/13/2003 5:26:15 PM Eastern Standard Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes:

Denton is going to appear on CSPAN on July 19th and = they wanted some people who knew a bit about MMM to call in with some = questions using Ron Walker’s retort to her NYTimes article as a guide. Fortunately or unfortunately, the CSPAN piece was already taped, so = there won’t be any questions from callers, at least not from me.

Agreed. There are times when issues other than the content of a = book begin to loom more ominously than any errors said book could promulgate, = I think.

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C34958.DB607FB0-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Edlund, Mark J" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Today's SL Trib Date: 13 Jul 2003 18:11:59 -0500 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C34994.2948CC10 Content-Type: text/plain I found Turley's response is interesting in a lot of ways, only a few of which I will mention. (1) In light of the very negative assessment from FARMs re Todd Compton's book, it is interesting to note that Turley praises Todd's book noting "the more balanced analysis in Todd Compton, In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2001)". (2) While he mentions the Stowell trial, he never discusses what the business relationship was between Stowell and Joseph Smith. (3) Turley devotes a whole (albeit short) paragraph to a minor issue: Krakaeur wrote that "most" Latter Day Saints eventually go to the Palmyra pageant. Turley notes that this is not true; most of the LDS never do make it to the pageant. (4) Turley denies Krakauer's assertion that documents acquired from Mark Hofmann were "squirreled away in a vault to keep them from the public eye". (5) I assume he was describing Bagley's book when he referred to " recent ballyhooed publications" on MM. My own opinion is that Krakauer's book is problematic in many ways, even lurid, and not sufficiently nuanced. Most reviewers unfamiliar with Mormonism will not appreciate this, and will be, IMO, overly favorable to the book. That said, it does seem to me that Mormonism, and here I include all branches that accept the Book of Mormon, does have a higher rate of this type of stuff than Episcopalians, Unitarians, Quakers, Lutherans or Methodists. Perhaps this is just because I am most familiar with Mormonism. Very quickly, I can think of the following instances: 1) The MM 2) The Laffertys 3) The LeBarons 4) John Singer, Adam Swapp 5) Jeffrey Lundgren 6) The guy who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart 7) Who was the guy who jumped off a SL hotel in the 1970's? Was he Mormon? Personally, I think there is a problem here, although clearly not to the extent that Krakauer asserts. Nevertheless, IMO, there is a problem, and rather than deny it, we should try to overcome it. Mark Edlund -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 4:25 PM I got an e-mail from the regional public affairs office noting that two books were being released that might prompt inquiries from the news media. One was Krakauer's book. The other was Sally Denton's AN AMERICAN MASSACRE Krakauer's book seems to be of more concern. It is apparently on a lot of newspapers' summer reading lists. The Church's rebuttal can be found at: . http://www.lds.org/newsroom/extra/0,15505,4028-1---2-748,00.html Denton is going to appear on CSPAN on July 19th and they wanted some people who knew a bit about MMM to call in with some questions using Ron Walker's retort to her NYTimes article as a guide. Fortunately or unfortunately, the CSPAN piece was already taped, so there won't be any questions from callers, at least not from me. I just started reading Denton and am finding it somewhat disappointing. When I finish, I'll post more. -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Edlund, Mark J Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 8:09 AM Today's Salt Lake Tribune has a piece written by the Jon Krakauer, responding to the church's comments on his book. Also they print excerpts of the comments of Richard Turley, managing director of the church's Family and Church History Department, and Michael Otterson, director of media relations for the church. The book seems to be generating a fair amount of interest. Part of it is being excerpted in the current GQ. It has been mentioned by or reviewed by national newspapers such as USA Today. In fact, the person who wrote the summer book section for USA Today said that it was the book he or she was most looking forward to reading this summer. It was also reviewed in the most recent Outside Magazine. So far all of the national reviews I have seen were positive. Somewhere I read that the first printing was 350,000, so obviously this one is never going to be collectible. Mark Edlund ------_=_NextPart_001_01C34994.2948CC10 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I found Turley’s response is interesting in a = lot of ways, only a few of which I will mention.

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]>

(1) In light of = the very negative assessment from FARMs re Todd Compton’s book, it is = interesting to note that Turley praises Todd’s book noting “the more = balanced analysis in Todd Compton, In Sacred Loneliness: The = Plural Wives of Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, = 2001)”.

(2) While he = mentions the Stowell trial, he never discusses what the business relationship was = between Stowell and Joseph Smith.

(3) Turley = devotes a whole (albeit short) paragraph to a minor issue: Krakaeur wrote that “most” Latter Day = Saints eventually go to the Palmyra pageant. = Turley notes that this is not true; most of the LDS never do make it to the = pageant.

(4) Turley = denies Krakauer’s assertion that documents acquired from Mark Hofmann were = “squirreled away in a vault to keep them from the public eye”.

(5) I assume he = was describing Bagley’s book when he referred to “ recent = ballyhooed publications” on MM.

My own = opinion is that Krakauer’s book is problematic in many ways, even lurid, and not = sufficiently nuanced. Most reviewers = unfamiliar with Mormonism will not appreciate this, and will be, IMO, overly = favorable to the book. That said, it = does seem to me that Mormonism, and here I include all branches that accept the = Book of Mormon, does have a higher rate of this type of stuff than = Episcopalians, Unitarians, Quakers, Lutherans or Methodists. Perhaps this is just because I am most familiar with Mormonism. Very quickly, = I can think of the following instances:

1) The = MM

2) The = Laffertys

3) The LeBarons =

4) John Singer, = Adam Swapp

5) Jeffrey = Lundgren

6) = The guy who = kidnapped Elizabeth Smart

7) = Who was the guy who = jumped off a SL hotel in the 1970’s? Was he Mormon?

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]>

P= ersonally, I think there is a problem here, although clearly not to the extent = that Krakauer asserts. = Nevertheless, IMO, there is a problem, and rather than deny it, we should try to = overcome it.

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]>

M= ark Edlund

<= ![if = !supportEmptyParas]>

-----Original Message-----
From: Keith Irwin [mailto:irwinkw@earthlink.net]
Sent: Sunday, July 13, = 2003 4:25 PM
To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
Subject: RE: = [LDS-Bookshelf] Today's SL Trib

I got an e-mail = from the regional public affairs office noting that two books were being = released that might prompt inquiries from the news media. One was = Krakauer’s book. The other was Sally Denton’s AN AMERICAN = MASSACRE=

Krakauer’s= book seems to be of more concern. It is apparently on a lot of = newspapers’ summer reading lists. The Church’s rebuttal can be found at: = . http://www.lds.org/newsroom/extra/0,15505,4028-1---2-748,00.html=

Denton is going = to appear on CSPAN on July 19^th and they wanted some people who knew a = bit about MMM to call in with some questions using Ron Walker’s = retort to her NYTimes article as a guide. Fortunately or unfortunately, the = CSPAN piece was already taped, so there won’t be any questions from callers, = at least not from me.

I just started = reading Denton and am finding it somewhat disappointing. When I finish, = I’ll post more.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Edlund, Mark J
Sent: Sunday, July 13, = 2003 8:09 AM
To: = 'lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com'
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] = Today's SL Trib

Today’s Salt Lake Tribune has a piece written by the Jon Krakauer, responding = to the church’s comments on his book. Also they print excerpts of = the comments of Richard Turley, managing = director of the church's Family and Church History = Department, and Michael Otterson, director of media relations for the = church.=

= =

&nb= sp; Somewhere I read that the first printing was 350,000, so obviously this = one is never going to be collectible.=

= =

&nb= sp; Mark Edlund

------_=_NextPart_001_01C34994.2948CC10-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Philip Bradford" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Today's SL Trib Date: 13 Jul 2003 17:44:49 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C34966.75333D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I suspect Pentecostal religions provide more fodder for extremist groups = and in actual numbers they may have more incidences of extreme, irrational, = and violent activities than Mormonism has ever spawned. I can think of two = big examples, the Waco and the Bob Jones groups. There was some group in = Europe not to long ago that were paranoid and violent but their name escapes me = who also were committing suicide. =20 =20 I find it hard to understand that the concept of plural marriage by = itself causes abhorrent and vicious behavior. There has to be many other = factors in the brew to cause this type of psycho behavior. =20 BTW I am really happy to see Todd Compton's book receive some praise = from some of the 'A" historians of the Church. FARMS was very unfair in = their review of his book. I thought they even trashed him personally; = insinuating that he had his own agenda in writing the book. =20 =20 Phil=20 =20 =20 I found Turley's response is interesting in a lot of ways, only a few of which I will mention. =20 (1) In light of the very negative assessment from FARMs re Todd = Compton's book, it is interesting to note that Turley praises Todd's book noting = "the more balanced analysis in Todd Compton, In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2001)". =20 (2) While he mentions the Stowell trial, he never discusses what the business relationship was between Stowell and Joseph Smith. (3) Turley devotes a whole (albeit short) paragraph to a minor = issue: Krakaeur wrote that "most" Latter Day Saints eventually go to the = Palmyra pageant. Turley notes that this is not true; most of the LDS never do = make it to the pageant. (4) Turley denies Krakauer's assertion that documents acquired from = Mark Hofmann were "squirreled away in a vault to keep them from the public = eye". (5) I assume he was describing Bagley's book when he referred to " recent ballyhooed publications" on MM.=20 =20 My own opinion is that Krakauer's book is problematic in many ways, even lurid, and not sufficiently nuanced. Most reviewers unfamiliar with Mormonism will not appreciate this, and will be, IMO, overly favorable = to the book. That said, it does seem to me that Mormonism, and here I = include all branches that accept the Book of Mormon, does have a higher rate of = this type of stuff than Episcopalians, Unitarians, Quakers, Lutherans or Methodists. Perhaps this is just because I am most familiar with = Mormonism. Very quickly, I can think of the following instances: =20 1) The MM 2) The Laffertys 3) The LeBarons=20 4) John Singer, Adam Swapp 5) Jeffrey Lundgren 6) The guy who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart 7) Who was the guy who jumped off a SL hotel in the 1970's? Was = he Mormon? =20 Personally, I think there is a problem here, although clearly not to the extent that Krakauer asserts. Nevertheless, IMO, there is a problem, = and rather than deny it, we should try to overcome it. =20 Mark Edlund=20 =20 -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 4:25 PM =20 I got an e-mail from the regional public affairs office noting that two books were being released that might prompt inquiries from the news = media. One was Krakauer's book. The other was Sally Denton's AN AMERICAN = MASSACRE =20 Krakauer's book seems to be of more concern. It is apparently on a lot = of newspapers' summer reading lists. The Church's rebuttal can be found = at: . http://www.lds.org/newsroom/extra/0,15505,4028-1---2-748,00.html =20 Denton is going to appear on CSPAN on July 19th and they wanted some = people who knew a bit about MMM to call in with some questions using Ron = Walker's retort to her NYTimes article as a guide. Fortunately or unfortunately, = the CSPAN piece was already taped, so there won't be any questions from = callers, at least not from me. =20 I just started reading Denton and am finding it somewhat disappointing. When I finish, I'll post more. =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message-----=20 [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Edlund, = Mark J Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 8:09 AM =20 Today's Salt Lake Tribune has a piece written by the Jon Krakauer, responding to the church's comments on his book. Also they print = excerpts of the comments of Richard Turley, managing director of the church's = Family and Church History Department, and Michael Otterson, director of media relations for the church. =20 The book seems to be generating a fair amount of interest. Part of it = is being excerpted in the current GQ. It has been mentioned by or reviewed = by national newspapers such as USA Today. In fact, the person who wrote = the summer book section for USA Today said that it was the book he or she = was most looking forward to reading this summer. It was also reviewed in = the most recent Outside Magazine. So far all of the national reviews I have seen were positive. =20 =20 Somewhere I read that the first printing was 350,000, so obviously this one is never going to be collectible. =20 Mark Edlund ------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C34966.75333D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I suspect = Pentecostal religions provide more fodder for extremist groups and in actual numbers = they may have more incidences of extreme, irrational, and violent activities = than Mormonism has ever spawned. I can think of two big examples, = the Waco = and the Bob Jones groups. There was some group in Europe = not to long ago that were paranoid and violent but their name escapes me who also = were committing suicide.

I find it hard to understand that = the concept of plural marriage by itself causes abhorrent and vicious behavior. There has to be many other factors in the brew to cause = this type of psycho behavior.

BTW I am really happy to see Todd Compton’s book receive some = praise from some of the ‘A” historians of the Church. FARMS = was very unfair in their review of his book. I thought they even trashed = him personally; insinuating that he had his own agenda in writing the = book.

Phil

I = found Turley’s response is interesting in a lot of ways, only a few of = which I will mention.

(1) In light of = the very negative assessment from FARMs re Todd Compton’s book, it is = interesting to note that Turley praises Todd’s book noting “the more = balanced analysis in Todd Compton, In Sacred Loneliness: The Plural Wives of Joseph Smith (Salt Lake City: Signature Books, 2001)”.

(2) While he = mentions the Stowell trial, he never discusses what the business relationship was = between Stowell and Joseph Smith.

(3) Turley = devotes a whole (albeit short) paragraph to a minor issue: Krakaeur wrote that “most” Latter Day Saints eventually go to the Palmyra pageant. Turley notes that this is not true; most of the LDS never = do make it to the pageant.

(4) Turley denies Krakauer’s assertion that documents acquired from Mark Hofmann = were “squirreled away in a vault to keep them from the public eye”.

(5) I assume he = was describing Bagley’s book when he referred to “ recent = ballyhooed publications” on MM.

<= /font>

My own opinion is that Krakauer’s book is problematic in many ways, = even lurid, and not sufficiently nuanced. Most reviewers unfamiliar = with Mormonism will not appreciate this, and will be, IMO, overly favorable = to the book. That said, it does seem to me that Mormonism, and here I = include all branches that accept the Book of Mormon, does have a higher rate of = this type of stuff than Episcopalians, Unitarians, Quakers, Lutherans or Methodists. Perhaps this is just because I am most familiar with Mormonism. Very quickly, I can think of the following = instances:

<= /font>

1) The = MM

2) The = Laffertys

3) The LeBarons =

4) John Singer, = Adam Swapp

5) Jeffrey = Lundgren

6) The guy who = kidnapped Elizabeth Smart

7) Who was the = guy who jumped off a SL hotel in the 1970’s? Was he = Mormon?

Personally, I think there is a problem here, although clearly not to the extent that = Krakauer asserts. Nevertheless, IMO, there is a problem, and rather than = deny it, we should try to overcome it.

Mark = Edlund

I got an e-mail from the regional public affairs office noting that two books = were being released that might prompt inquiries from the news media. One was Krakauer’s book. The other was Sally Denton’s AN = AMERICAN MASSACRE

Krakauer’s book seems to be of more concern. It is apparently on a lot of newspapers’ summer reading lists. The Church’s = rebuttal can be found at: . http://www.lds.org/newsroom/extra/0,15505,4028-1---2-748,00.html

Denton is going to appear on CSPAN on July 19^th and they wanted some = people who knew a bit about MMM to call in with some questions using Ron Walker’s retort to her NYTimes article as a guide. = Fortunately or unfortunately, the CSPAN piece was already taped, so there won’t = be any questions from callers, at least not from me.

I just started reading Denton and am finding it somewhat disappointing. = When I finish, I’ll post more.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Edlund, Mark J
Sent: Sunday, July 13, = 2003 8:09 AM
To: 'lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com'
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] = Today's SL Trib

&nbs= p; Somewhere I read that the first printing was 350,000, so obviously this = one is never going to be collectible.

&nbs= p; Mark Edlund

------=_NextPart_000_001B_01C34966.75333D50-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Philip Bradford" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Under the Banner of Heaven, A Story of Violent Faith. Jon Krakauer Date: 13 Jul 2003 18:23:00 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C3496B.CABD2E70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Here is another review published in the LA Times that may be of interest. http://www.calendarlive.com/books/bookreview/cl-bk-bazelon13jul13.story Phil ------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C3496B.CABD2E70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Here is another review published in the LA Times that may be of = interest.

http://www.calendarlive.com/books/bookreview/cl-bk-bazelon13jul13= .story

Phil

------=_NextPart_000_0026_01C3496B.CABD2E70-- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Holden Mark" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] NY Times article on new Krakauer book Date: 13 Jul 2003 22:00:52 -0400 Below is a copy of a lenghty article on the new Krakauer book (Under the Banner of Heaven: A story of Violent Faith) that was in today's Sunday New York times. FYI the article was on the front page of the Sunday Styles section (this section of the newspaper typically includes wedding/celebration announcements, fashion, and society photos). Placement in this section seems to suggest that the book is regarded as likely "beach reading." Other articles on the same page include "How to move up? The Sorority Track" and "Advice from Ex-Cons to a Jet-Set Jailbird." Mark Holden ________________________________________ What's Left After Everest? July 13, 2003 By TIMOTHY EGAN BOULDER, Colo. FRESH from writing one of the most popular books ever published about mountain climbing, Jon Krakauer circulated a proposal for his next project. An account of the 1984 killings of a Utah woman and her infant daughter, the new book promised outlaw sex, bizarre rituals, unknown history, an examination of the tragic consequences of faith - all built around murder in the service of a home-grown religion. Editors were perplexed. " `Where are the mountains?' " asked one editor, Mr. Krakauer recalled. "People think of me as this outdoor writer. But I'm really a seeker, a doubter. I'm interested in those people who take things too far, because I see something of myself in them." There is a moment in all his books when Mr. Krakauer turns the story on himself and presents an imperfect human - an author as guilty of the hubris, doubt and foolishness that push his nonfiction characters to extremes. So it is in his latest book, "Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith," which Doubleday is bringing out this week, complete with a publicity agent's dream controversy - loud condemnation of the book by his primary target, the Mormon Church. "I don't know if God even exists, although I confess I find myself praying in times of great fear, or despair, or astonishment at a display of unexpected beauty," he writes. "In the absence of conviction, I've come to terms with the fact that uncertainty is an inescapable corollary of life." Until six years ago, when Mr. Krakauer wrote "Into Thin Air," an account of a deadly season on Mount Everest, books about mountain climbing were to the literary world what sensible shoes are to fashion - serviceable and plodding. But the book he produced, dashing it off in a three-month sprint of writing and emotional purging, was not the usual how-I-conquered-the-top-of-the-world tome. In a story of arrogance and missteps at the highest altitude, Mr. Krakauer and his party reached the summit of the world's highest mountain in the spring of 1996. On the descent, four of his teammates died, and Mr. Krakauer blamed himself, in part. The book was a sensation, riding best-seller lists for two years, translated into 24 languages, a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize and a National Book Critics Circle award. There are now more than 3.6 million copies in print. It made Mr. Krakauer, a former carpenter and fisherman who scrapped for a living as a freelance writer, a rich man. He was free to pursue his passions and settle down along the Front Range here in well-manicured Boulder. The book followed "Into the Wild," Mr. Krakauer's story about a lost American soul, Chris McCandless, who died looking for inner meaning without sufficient outer protection in the Alaskan bush. It also became a best seller. Now, with "Under the Banner of Heaven," Mr. Krakauer has begun his own culture war. If he thought the mini-industry spawned by his Everest book - competing books, death threats and continuing Web battles - was a nuisance, he may one day look back on that experience as a minor dust-up compared with what could follow his book questioning religion. Already, the Mormon Church has questioned his motives and veracity, while pointing to some secular publications - like the Economist magazine - that have criticized him for failing to explain why people are drawn to the church. The gist of the complaints is that, having climbed to the top of the world and written well about it, does an admitted agnostic really think he can take on a popular religion? Or even get it? Mr. Krakauer, whose friends both praise and fault him for his laserlike intensity, certainly takes his swings. A year ago, the nation was appalled at the kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart, the sunny-faced Utah girl of 14 whose abductor says he was following early Mormon scripture in taking her as one of his brides. But as Mr. Krakauer writes, Joseph Smith, the Mormon Church's founder, also took a 14-year-old girl as one of an estimated 40 wives, explaining to her that God had commanded her to become part of his harem. "My friends in Utah say Elizabeth Smart was more vulnerable to this kind of thing because the culture puts so much emphasis on obeying the word of God," Mr. Krakauer said. In the book, Mr. Krakauer examines Mormon fundamentalists, the tens of thousands of true believers living mostly in Utah who broke away from the original Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The splinter groups are the American Taliban, Mr. Krakauer says, living in desert theocracies where pubescent girls are forced into marriages with old graybeards who rule with an iron fist. These polygamous communities are against the law, but usually tolerated by officials who see a little bit of great-grandpa's pioneering ways in the modern sects. The biggest of these communities, Hildale/Colorado City, on the Utah-Arizona border, is full of houses the size of a Days Inn motel, stuffed with dozens of wives married to self-styled Mormon fundamentalist patriarchs. The community is in open violation of the law, Mr. Krakauer and others have noted, but faces little legal sanction and also manages to have one of the highest ratios of welfare recipients in the country. His main focus is on Dan and Ron Lafferty, a pair of Utah brothers who believed they were ordered by God to kill their sister-in-law and her 15-month-old daughter. Brenda Lafferty had her throat slit with a 10-inch boning knife, and her daughter, Erica, was also stabbed. Dan Lafferty is serving a life sentence and his older brother, Ron, is on death row. The brothers said they did it because Brenda opposed their plan to take multiple wives. Mr. Krakauer draws a connection between the revelations the Lafferty brothers claimed guided them and early Mormon acts of "blood atonement," in which followers targeted victims because of purported divine inspiration. Ron Lafferty, Mr. Krakauer notes, was a Republican city councilman and devout Mormon, who came to believe that his religion had lost touch with its roots, which allowed men to practice polygamy and to receive divine revelation. Mr. Krakauer faults the modern Mormon Church, perhaps the fastest growing religion in America, with worldwide membership approaching 12 million, for failing to honestly address a past where taking young wives, killing on behalf of God and open disdain for the Constitution are papered over in place of a more Osmond-friendly image. Often overlooked by mainstream historians, the story of how a church founded by radicals who practiced an early form of communism and sanctioned sexual promiscuity through multiple wives has come to be known for white-bread conservatism is a compelling American tale. The church officially renounced polygamy in 1890, and excommunicates members who openly practice it. But officials in Utah say up to 60,000 people continue to live in polygamous families there. The church issued a five-page, single-spaced rebuttal of the book two weeks before publication. They found some relatively minor factual errors in the book, which Mr. Krakauer has promised to correct, and they took issue with one of his central points. The book "is a full frontal assault on the veracity of the modern church," Mike Otterson, a church spokesman in Salt Lake City, said in a statement. "His basic thesis appears to be that people who are religious are irrational, and that irrational people do strange things." In tying the crimes of the Lafferty brothers to the roots of the church, Mr. Krakauer has smeared an entire religion, Mr. Otterson said in the statement. "Krakauer unwittingly puts himself in the same camp as those who believe every German is a Nazi, every Japanese a fanatic, and every Arab a terrorist." Doubleday, which is bringing out a 350,000-copy first printing of the book, seems delighted with the controversy. Its publicists promptly faxed the Mormon Church rebuttal to reviewers, and passed on phone numbers of church spokesmen. Church officials say they agonized over responding in such a splashy way to the book, but decided that they had to make their stand, even at the risk of running the book up the best-seller charts. Mr. Krakauer, a wiry, bearded, 49-year-old man with a sense of humor that is rarely evident on the pages of his books, admires the Mormons for their faith, he said during an afternoon in Boulder. "I grew up with Mormons," said Mr. Krakauer, who was raised in Corvallis, Ore. "I like this culture. What I'm less comfortable with is the mind-boggling certainty of this or any religion." He seems unfazed by fame; he has been married to the same woman, Linda Moore, for 23 years, and moves around Boulder with minimal interruptions from strangers. He can seem tightly wound, but the guilt and soul-searching that followed Everest are genuine, say friends. "The controversy over Everest changed him," said John Rasmus, the editor of National Geographic Adventure Magazine, who has worked with Mr. Krakauer for 20 years at other publications. "Jon felt the Everest book was somewhat the result of being in the right place at the right time and that he had profited from what turned out to be a tragedy." In a postscript in a later edition of the book, Mr. Krakauer called himself "stubborn and proud and loathe to back down from a fight," and wished that he had been "a little less strident" in his post-Everest debate with a climbing guide, Anatoli Bourkreev, who died shortly after his own book on the deadly season came out. Mr. Krakauer had faulted the guide for leaving the summit before all of his clients were down the mountain, and for not using supplemental oxygen. With the new book, Mr. Krakauer has fresh demons on his flanks. In their rebuttal of Mr. Krakauer, Mormon officials describe him as "agnostic," a label Mr. Krakauer does not dispute. "I'm trying to figure out religion," he said. "I'm not a social reformer, but I am troubled by this sheeplike acceptance that faith is always good." Mr. Krakauer's father was a Jew from Brooklyn, an agnostic and a medical doctor, who moved to Oregon and became friends with another famous outsider, the writer Bernard Malamud. In "Into the Wild," Mr. Krakauer wrote some less-than-flattering things about his father, now dead. They reconciled before his death, he said. The latest book started as an inquiry into the nature of faith. He chose the Mormons because he has always been fascinated by them, he said, and because they have long tried to convert him, with missionaries showing up on his doorstep. His research led him to Dan Lafferty, who cooperated with Mr. Krakauer from his cell in Utah, and still shows no remorse for his crimes. The church says Mr. Lafferty is simply a murderer who used his own cryptic religious revelations as an excuse to go after his sister-in-law because she opposed his views on polygamy. "I don't believe Dan Lafferty is crazy or a psychopath," Mr. Krakauer said. "He is an example of an inevitable outcome of strong belief. The modern church's refusal to acknowledge its history has spawned people like Dan Lafferty." This kind of deduction is far too simple, say Mr. Krakauer's critics. If in fact the early church history is so toxic that it continues to inspire people to murder, why are there not more people like the Lafferty brothers? The murders, the church says, are anomalies - not evidence of cause and effect. MR. KRAKAUER still climbs, often twice a week with a friend, scaling the rock walls in Boulder's backyard. He does not consider reaching the summit of Everest a major mountaineering achievement. "I'm kind of freaked out by it all now," he said. "If I had to write a climbing r�sum� now, I wouldn't even put Everest on it." Mountaineering is like a religious faith in one way, he said, because it defies reason. And climbing Everest is the ultimate irrational act. "The plain truth is that I knew better but went to Everest anyway," Mr. Krakauer wrote at the start of "Into Thin Air" in 1996. "And in doing so I was party to the death of good people, which is something that is apt to remain on my conscience for a very long time." He wrote the Everest book as a cautionary tale, blaming commercial guides for rushing overeager clients up a mountain that requires expertise and patience - and can't always be bought. It has had the opposite effect, of drawing more people to the mountain, Mr. Krakauer said, and now he is disgusted with the climbing world's continued focus on Everest. "The owner of an Everest guiding service recently thanked me for bringing him more clients," Mr. Krakauer said, shaking his head. If the new book has the same effect on the Mormon Church, they may be thanking him in Temple Square, the church headquarters, as well. http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/13/fashion/13KRAK.html?ex=1059147229&ei=1&en=93315e4f63f76b6e _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hjmckell@xmission.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] NY Times article on new Krakauer book Date: 14 Jul 2003 10:55:53 -0600 Hi all, We finally got copies of the Krakauer book in Fri., so I started to read. Then Sunday in the Trib, as you all know, there were three articles on the book - The Mike Otterson, from church PR; Turley and Krakauer. In Turley's article he branded me very well. He stated that "Although the book may appeal to gullible persons who rise to such bait like trout to a fly hook, serious readers who want to understand Latter-day Saints and their history need not wate their time on it." I like the book. Krakauer is a good writer, as soon as I started reading the book I was reminded of Truman Capote's _In Cold Blood_. The book's a barn-burner. It will sell well, even though it may be problematic, lurid and not sufficiently nuanced. The book doesn't appear to be directed to a mormon aduience and I doubt whether the gentiles will care. LDS reviewers have aready shown an unappreciative bend and Turley has told the faithful not to read it. I can't imagine the Fundamentalist LDS leadership recommending it. (which should help sales!) True, _Under the Banner_ does not paint a swell picture of Mormon beginnings, Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and others but its lurid expose of the fanitical mormon fundi's "underbelly" is shocking but perhaps all too true. hjm (gullible person) btw Krakauer describes a Colorado City Priesthood Authority pedophile who got off by saying is was a good man and father and loved his family reminded me of the Kingston pedophile recently released from prison (SLC) by promising not to marry (read have sex) any more of his brother's 16-year- old daughters. - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Seminar on book collecting Date: 26 Jul 2003 15:16:27 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C35388.E5E71450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HBL library is offering a half day seminar on book collecting which includes a tour of their special collections. http://sc.lib.byu.edu/gentlemadness.html#register Keith Irwin irwinkw@earthlink.net "In nature, it's the early bird that gets the worm. With book collectors, it's the bird who knows a worm when he sees one." ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C35388.E5E71450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

HBL library is offering a half day seminar on book collecting which includes a tour of their special collections. =

http://sc.lib.= byu.edu/gentlemadness.html#register

Keith = Irwin

irwinkw@earthlink.net

"In nature, it's the early bird that gets the worm.

With = book collectors, it's the bird who knows a worm when he sees = one."

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