From: owner-lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com (lds-bookshelf-digest) To: lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: lds-bookshelf-digest V1 #907 Reply-To: lds-bookshelf Sender: owner-lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk lds-bookshelf-digest Saturday, February 10 2001 Volume 01 : Number 907 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:08:19 -0600 From: John Hajicek Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Are prices leveling off? - --------------417E98A1C6608AB6E7573584 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Back in October, I saved this whole thread as a subfolder in my Inbox, thinking that I would reply to it but never found the time. One person asked if Mormon prices were leveling off because of stock prices. While I still have the chance, I want to respond to this again very briefly. Mainly, I want to refer everyone to the Bill Reese article, "The Rare Book Market Today," in the Yale University Library Gazette, April 2000. For those who have not read it, it is now online at: http://www.reeseco.com/papers/market.htm > I know many astute Mormon collectors who are switching to high-end Mormon books because of the volatility of the high-tech stocks in the NASDAQ, as well as the long-time flatness of the Dow. > After reading the responses from other subscribers, I should clarify that statement: 1. I said that these were astute Mormon collectors. I mean that they have a taste for Mormon books and an expertise in Mormon books. I did not say that the average American could do better in Mormon books than in stocks. I did not say that the Mormon books would appreciate faster than the stocks. I mean that if the stock market is not expected to rise, someone who likes Mormon books might be inclined to buy more of them. 2. I did not mean that I knew anyone who took all of their investment capital out of the stock market and put it into rare books as an investment. Most people who I know that buy high-end Mormon books also buy land, stocks, entrepreneurial investments, and have their own companies. (If Jon Huntsman put 1/10th of 1% of his net worth in rare Mormon books, because the stock market was unappealing . . . think how enriching this would be to him, his family, and some library someday.) (If fifty years from now, the Mormon economy has twenty-five times as many millionaires and billionaires as it has now. . . think how much this will affect the demand for high-end books that have a fixed supply.) However, I want to defend myself against criticisms that I am buying books merely as investments -- those people do not know my passion very well. I only use the investment argument as a justification for buying what I otherwise already want. I consider myself a priest before a historian, a historian before a collector, and a collector before an investor. I do not just buy expensive books, and I do not just buy books that appreciate rapidly. I buy assorted and diverse books, pamphlets, newspapers, paintings, photographs, postcards, engravings, and artifacts related to my interests in the early scriptures, the Great Lakes Mormons, Mormons in the Midwest, the succession crisis of 1844, and the Kirtland and Nauvoo temples. I buy books that I like, regardless of price, as my eBay "completed items" for "hajicek@mormonism.com" shows. I recently won everything from a $3 photograph to an entire Lake Michigan island, neither one for profit; and the transactional costs (opportunity costs of time) are too great for 90% of everything I buy to ever be profitable even after appreciating. I do anticipate them to go up in value, but that is only a bonus, and I do not consider that incompatible with enjoyment. I have 45 credit hours (15 courses) in economics, plus plenty of experience in Mormon history, and feel that I can predict which materials that I like will also rise in value. And, if my Mormon collection happens to do worse than Microsoft stock, at least I can enjoy my Mormon collection. Microsoft stock has no display properties, informational value, faith affirmation, or intellectual challenge -- so I prefer Mormon books, regardless of the financial return. - -- JOHN HAJICEK http://www.Mormonism.com 3514 Saddle Ridge Drive Independence, Missouri 64057-3355 (800) 862-5667 Toll-free home number (816) 213-6141 Wireless (816) 220-3141 Local home (816) 220-3142 Fax at home - --------------417E98A1C6608AB6E7573584 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Back in October, I saved this whole thread as a subfolder in my Inbox, thinking that I would reply to it but never found the time.  One person asked if Mormon prices were leveling off because of stock prices.  While I still have the chance, I want to respond to this again very briefly.  Mainly, I want to refer everyone to the Bill Reese article, "The Rare Book Market Today," in the Yale University Library Gazette, April 2000.  For those who have not read it, it is now online at: http://www.reeseco.com/papers/market.htm 
I know many astute Mormon collectors who are switching to high-end Mormon books because of the volatility of the high-tech stocks in the NASDAQ, as well as the long-time flatness of the Dow.


After reading the responses from other subscribers, I should clarify that statement:

1.  I said that these were astute Mormon collectors.  I mean that they have a taste for Mormon books and an expertise in Mormon books.  I did not say that the average American could do better in Mormon books than in stocks.  I did not say that the Mormon books would appreciate faster than the stocks.  I mean that if the stock market is not expected to rise, someone who likes Mormon books might be inclined to buy more of them.

2.  I did not mean that I knew anyone who took all of their investment capital out of the stock market and put it into rare books as an investment.  Most people who I know that buy high-end Mormon books also buy land, stocks, entrepreneurial investments, and have their own companies.

(If Jon Huntsman put 1/10th of 1% of his net worth in rare Mormon books, because the stock market was unappealing . . . think how enriching this would be to him, his family, and some library someday.)

(If fifty years from now, the Mormon economy has twenty-five times as many millionaires and billionaires as it has now. . . think how much this will affect the demand for high-end books that have a fixed supply.)

However, I want to defend myself against criticisms that I am buying books merely as investments -- those people do not know my passion very well.  I only use the investment argument as a justification for buying what I otherwise already want.  I consider myself a priest before a historian, a historian before a collector, and a collector before an investor.  I do not just buy expensive books, and I do not just buy books that appreciate rapidly.  I buy assorted and diverse books, pamphlets, newspapers, paintings, photographs, postcards, engravings, and artifacts related to my interests in the early scriptures, the Great Lakes Mormons, Mormons in the Midwest, the succession crisis of 1844, and the Kirtland and Nauvoo temples.  I buy books that I like, regardless of price, as my eBay "completed items" for "hajicek@mormonism.com" shows.  I recently won everything from a $3 photograph to an entire Lake Michigan island, neither one for profit; and the transactional costs (opportunity costs of time) are too great for 90% of everything I buy to ever be profitable even after appreciating.  I do anticipate them to go up in value, but that is only a bonus, and I do not consider that incompatible with enjoyment.  I have 45 credit hours (15 courses) in economics, plus plenty of experience in Mormon history, and feel that I can predict which materials that I like will also rise in value.  And, if my Mormon collection happens to do worse than Microsoft stock, at least I can enjoy my Mormon collection.  Microsoft stock has no display properties, informational value, faith affirmation, or intellectual challenge -- so I prefer Mormon books, regardless of the financial return.

--
JOHN HAJICEK
http://www.Mormonism.com

3514 Saddle Ridge Drive
Independence, Missouri 64057-3355

(800) 862-5667    Toll-free home number
(816) 213-6141    Wireless
(816) 220-3141    Local home
(816) 220-3142    Fax at home
  - --------------417E98A1C6608AB6E7573584-- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:22:18 -0700 From: "Dean Eborn" Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] The Last Day - ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C092AC.1752B3A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wish I had known this. After a couple of people emailed me and told me= they didn't like me posting my purchases (especially with the prices lis= ted), I stopped. Dean - ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe Geisner Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:34 PM To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] The Last Day I miss people sharing what they buy and how much they paid. This was not = to show off, but to inform one another so we were educated buyers. Joe

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

- ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C092AC.1752B3A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I wish I had k= nown this.  After a couple of people emailed me and told me they did= n't like me posting my purchases (especially with the prices listed), I s= topped.
 
Dean

----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Geisne= r
Sent: Friday, Februar= y 09, 2001 12:34 PM
To: = ;lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
<= B>Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] The Last Day

I miss people sharing what they buy and how much they paid. This was not= to
show off, but to inform one another so we were educated buyers.
Joe


Get your = FREE download of MSN Explorer at http= ://explorer.msn.com

- ------=_NextPart_001_0000_01C092AC.1752B3A0-- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 16:57:11 -700 From: Will Bagley Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] The Last Day So long, Shelf. I signed up on Fri, 9 Aug 1996 09:11:35 and posted a message about gold rush books to Joe Geisner. It's been a great ride. The Shelf has reminded me of a big Mormon family --the sprawling, diverse sort that through marriage and arttrition is full of surprising characters with distinct and varied opinions. We were bound not by ties of blood or marriage, but by a common affliction: the love of books and what's in them. I'll miss you all. Happy reading. Will Bagley The Prairie Dog Press I find the more I find out, the more I need to find out.--Dale L. Morgan - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:48:39 -0700 From: Diane Peel Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] The Last Day Bye. I forgot to mention Bob Clark and his many contributions, though he hasn't been about for a while. He made an important contribution to Biblioteca Scalawagiana, and answered many of my questions offline. He was one of many who took the time to write me privatly last year and offer help anc consulation. Many friends from the bookshelf did the same. You will never know--can never know--unless you must come back from so far, just how much such encouragement can mean. On some days it is everything--the only reason for getting up and going on. Thank you my friends. Diane - ----- Diane Peel Bookseller at Bibliofind - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 21:18:57 -0500 From: Cahoon_Doug@emc.com Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Encyclopedia of Latter-day Saint History Yes John - has been for a few weeks now. (I am trying to get on John's "nice to me" list) I remember speaking with John briefly when he had a table at Sunstone (University Park Hotel) back in the early 90s - I think he was selling reprints at the time. A nice guy. - --Doug > -----Original Message----- > From: John Hajicek [SMTP:John@mormonism.com] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:24 PM > To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Encyclopedia of Latter-day Saint History > > Is this available yet in stores? Deseret is paying me 5 cents per word > for my little contribution near the front of this book. > > - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:13:02 -0800 From: "G. A. Carbiener" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Thanks for the list This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C092D4.B4CB0560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Keith and Hugh, Thanks for inviting me into your library for a couple of years stay. I = generally sat very quietly and over by the fireplace but enjoyed getting = to know the members by their postings and, as a non LDS, learning so = much about the church and religion of my pioneer grand and great = grandparents. =20 As we in the maritime trades say, I wish you fair winds and followings = seas. Jerry Carbiener Minden, NV - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C092D4.B4CB0560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Keith and Hugh,
 
Thanks for inviting me into your = library for a=20 couple of years stay.  I generally sat very quietly and over by the = fireplace but enjoyed getting to know the members by their postings and, = as a=20 non LDS, learning so much about the church and religion of my pioneer = grand and=20 great grandparents. 
 
As we in the maritime trades = say,  I wish=20 you fair winds and followings seas.
 
Jerry Carbiener
Minden, NV
 
- ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C092D4.B4CB0560-- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:16:34 -0600 From: John Hajicek Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Encyclopedia of Latter-day Saint History :::adding name::: It just takes one person being nice to make my whole day for me. Thanks. That was 1991, and I had my first newborn baby with me. I stayed in the homes of Kent Walgren and Peter Crawley on that trip, for which I am permanently grateful. Cahoon_Doug@emc.com wrote: > Yes John - has been for a few weeks now. (I am trying to get on John's "nice > to me" list) I remember speaking with John briefly when he had a table at > Sunstone (University Park Hotel) back in the early 90s - I think he was > selling reprints at the time. A nice guy. > > --Doug > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Hajicek [SMTP:John@mormonism.com] > > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:24 PM > > To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com > > Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Encyclopedia of Latter-day Saint History > > > > Is this available yet in stores? Deseret is paying me 5 cents per word > > for my little contribution near the front of this book. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - -- JOHN HAJICEK http://www.Mormonism.com 3514 Saddle Ridge Drive Independence, Missouri 64057-3355 (800) 862-5667 Toll-free home number (816) 213-6141 Wireless (816) 220-3141 Local home (816) 220-3142 Fax at home - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:21:48 -0800 From: "Steve Eccles" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Adios This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C092D5.EE13AC90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, from the southwestern end of the country, I must tearfully say adios to all those who I have come to know on LDS-Bookshelf. It has been a wonderful journey over the past few years. I wish all of you well in your collecting, and add my thanks to Hugh and Keith for putting up with our rantings, ravings and all other ill mannered posts that were off subject. Hope to continue this at another time and place. - --Steve - ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C092D5.EE13AC90 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IjAEAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANEHAgAJABQAFQAAAAUAEQEB A5AGAGAGAAAnAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAB4AcAAB AAAABgAAAEFkaW9zAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAcCTGPpujdUlQv8JEdSDbXBOTAAAAAAAAgEdDAEA AAAVAAAAU01UUDpTRUNDTEVTQEdURS5ORVQAAAAACwABDgAAAABAAAYOAB463xiTwAECAQoOAQAA ABgAAAAAAAAAqQ9alp680xGCwUYfEwAAAMKAAAALAB8OAQAAAAMABhBqaodBAwAHEFIBAAAeAAgQ AQAAAGUAAABXRUxMLEZST01USEVTT1VUSFdFU1RFUk5FTkRPRlRIRUNPVU5UUlksSU1VU1RURUFS RlVMTFlTQVlBRElPU1RPQUxMVEhPU0VXSE9JSEFWRUNPTUVUT0tOT1dPTkxEUy1CT09LAAAAAAIB CRABAAAA3gEAANoBAABNAgAATFpGdagwzGoDAAoAcmNwZzEyNRYyAPgLYG4OEDAzM08B9wKkA+MC AGNoCsBzsGV0MCAHEwKAfQqBknYIkHdrC4BkNAxgDmMAUAsDC7UgV2VsCGwsIANSIHRoZawgcwhg FIB3B5B0BJJhCfBkIG9mFHMFoHUJAjByeRQQSSBtdUsVMBRwZQrAZnUT8HmFFLBhF8BhZGlvBCB8 dG8YEBPwFHEYUBSgd3cZABbBEPB2FiIHgBhyawxubwfgAiAgTERTQC1Cb29rcxSQbNxmLgqiCoQK gEkFQBDw/QQgYgnhGBAZQAIgBIEXgaQgaghhbmUXwG8Z0K8FwBSCCrAXEWYH0XkXUW5zG9wZQAQA aBijFdF59whgGUAT4SALgCGyBcAI4epsBZB0C4BnFBAAcBWw+xggFbBtF8AUgABwG3AYchhIdWch MRWhS2VpNxSAFCAFsXAU4CMyIHVucCDxJaEiknIAcCMyc/8UECdQEiAnoSOCG+QhUxSB/wXAAxAD IAOBHmAJcR8gGFD+dBhhEPAFQBUQCXAVwRXgMHN1YmojERvbSG/+cBozBaAncgpQFHEEABgQfwVA AHApRCMwGiEjkgtRY+JlG9stLVMVQBnQG+QFEeEAMcAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAAALAAGACCAG AAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAA4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABCFAAAAAAAA AwAHgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAUoUAAPATAAAeAAiACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAABU hQAAAQAAAAQAAAA4LjUACwAMgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAABoUAAAAAAAADAA2ACCAGAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAFoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAA6FAAAAAAAAAwAX gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAEYUAAAAAAAADABmACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAYhQAA AAAAAB4AKIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeACmACCAGAAAAAADA AAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAqgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEA AAABAAAAAAAAAAsAMoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAIKFAAABAAAACwA0gAsgBgAAAAAAwAAA AAAAAEYAAAAAAIgAAAAAAAALADaACyAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAFiAAAAAAAAAIB+A8BAAAA EAAAAKkPWpaevNMRgsFGHxMAAAACAfoPAQAAABAAAACpD1qWnrzTEYLBRh8TAAAAAgH7DwEAAACB AAAAAAAAADihuxAF5RAaobsIACsqVsIAAFBTVFBSWC5ETEwAAAAAAAAAAE5JVEH5v7gBAKoAN9lu AAAAQzpcV0lOTlRcUHJvZmlsZXNcZWNjbGVzXEFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIERhdGFcTWljcm9zb2Z0XE91 dGxvb2tcb3V0bG9vay5wc3QAAAAAAwD+DwUAAAADAA00/TcAAAIBfwABAAAAMQAAADAwMDAwMDAw QTkwRjVBOTY5RUJDRDMxMTgyQzE0NjFGMTMwMDAwMDA4NDdBMkMwMAAAAACbQA== - ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01C092D5.EE13AC90-- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:23:05 EST From: NJHERZMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] The Last Day - --part1_56.70bf873.27b62a39_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gosh fellas -- some of you are so stoical, some indifferent, others objective - -- there's that awful word. I love you all -- (well, almost all) so, why am I crying? Thanks Hugh and Keith -- this has been a very important part of my rather lonely life. Norma - --part1_56.70bf873.27b62a39_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Gosh fellas -- some of you are so stoical, some indifferent, others objective
-- there's that awful word.  I love you all -- (well, almost all) so, why am
I crying?

Thanks Hugh and Keith -- this has been a very important part of my rather
lonely life.

Norma - --part1_56.70bf873.27b62a39_boundary-- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 00:15:29 -0700 From: John Hatch Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Farewell Just a quick note to say thanks and farewell. I doubt I'll ever be in a position to learn so much in so little time. For every post I wrote back saying how much I enjoyed it, there were 20 other posts that I should have wrote back saying how much I learned and gained from it. This great group has meant a lot to me. All I can say is, thank you. Best to all, John - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 03:58:17 EST From: NJHERZMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] The Last Day - --part1_64.b1ca67f.27b65ca9_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/09/2001 2:10:44 PM Pacific Standard Time, John@Mormonism.com writes: For occasionally mentioning books related to the Beaver Island Mormons > -- Bill MacKinnon, Norma Jean Herzman, Vickie Speek, Mark Edlund, and Stan > Shepp (others may also have been culturally tolerant, but not showed it). > John: I must tell you that I was never being "culturally tolerant" when mentioning books or facts related to the Beaver Island Mormons! I believe that I am truly culturally tolerant, but even if I were not, I would have mentioned the aforesaid. Some of the Beaver Island Mormons were my ANCESTORS (as you know) and I crave every word of information about that group and the whys and wherefores pertaining to them. It is a passion for me of more than 30+ years when I first learned of my family's involvement in this particular christian group of good, saintly believers. They believed in the Book of Mormon, though they did not pass down a copy to me so that I could become rich today by selling it. I have truly regretted that little oversight on their part. They sustained Joseph Smith and delighted in his teachings. They lived in Nauvoo and had children born there. They cut timber in the wilds of Jackson Co., Wisconsin for the Nauvoo temple as early as 1842. They did not like Brigham Young and would not follow him. I don't know why - -- I will probably never know why -- but it isn't because I do not CRAVE to know why. If you, or anyone else, can shed any light on this, please do so with my blessing. They followed James Jesse Strang and were true and faithful servants of their Heavenly Father during that time, as they had been under the leadership of Joseph Smith. They were not charletans, thieves, counterfeiters, murderers, or any other of the myriad things they were accused of being. They were involved in polygamy. The final result cost them everything they had accomplished in 20 years of church membership, plus all that they brought into the church when they joined in 1836. In my family, it even cost them their faith in Mormonism for several generations, which is, indeed, regrettable. Now, John, if you had included me in your "kind to me" list, you and everyone else wouldn't have had to read this! :^) Sincerely, Norma - --part1_64.b1ca67f.27b65ca9_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In a message dated 02/09/2001 2:10:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
John@Mormonism.com writes:

For occasionally mentioning books related to the Beaver Island Mormons

-- Bill MacKinnon, Norma Jean Herzman, Vickie Speek, Mark Edlund, and Stan
Shepp (others may also have been culturally tolerant, but not showed it).


John:  

I must tell you that I was never being "culturally tolerant" when mentioning
books or facts related to the Beaver Island Mormons!  I believe that I am
truly culturally tolerant, but even if I were not, I would have mentioned the
aforesaid.  Some of the Beaver Island Mormons were my ANCESTORS (as you know)
and I crave every word of information about that group and the whys and
wherefores pertaining to them.  It is a passion for me of more than 30+ years
when I first learned of my family's involvement in this particular christian
group of good, saintly believers.  

They believed in the Book of Mormon, though they did not pass down a copy to
me so that I could become rich today by selling it.  I have truly regretted
that little oversight on their part.  

They sustained Joseph Smith and delighted in his teachings.

They lived in Nauvoo and had children born there.  

They cut timber in the wilds of Jackson Co., Wisconsin for the Nauvoo temple
as early as 1842.  

They did not like Brigham Young and would not follow him.  I don't know why
-- I will probably never know why -- but it isn't because I do not CRAVE to
know why.   If you, or anyone else,  can shed any light on this, please do so
with my blessing.

They followed James Jesse Strang and were true and faithful servants of their
Heavenly Father during that time, as they had been under the leadership of
Joseph Smith.  They were not charletans, thieves, counterfeiters, murderers,
or any other of the myriad things they were accused of being.   They were
involved in polygamy.  

The final result cost them everything they had accomplished in 20 years of
church membership, plus all that they brought into the church when they
joined in 1836.  In my family, it even cost them their faith in Mormonism for
several generations, which is, indeed, regrettable.   
 
Now, John, if you had included me in your "kind to me" list, you and everyone
else wouldn't have had to read this!  :^)

Sincerely,
Norma
- --part1_64.b1ca67f.27b65ca9_boundary-- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:58:30 -0500 From: "Stan Shepp" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Amen Farewell to thee, good friend. Amen, and amen. Stan Shepp York, PA Center of the Universe stanshepp@mindspring.com ICQ # 18305161 - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:19:33 -0600 From: John Hajicek Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Brethren, adieu. And I make an end of my writing upon these plates, which writing has been small; and to the reader I bid farewell, hoping that many of my brethren may read my words. Brethren, adieu. Jacob 7:27 - -- JOHN HAJICEK http://www.Mormonism.com 3514 Saddle Ridge Drive Independence, Missouri 64057-3355 (800) 862-5667 Toll-free home number (816) 213-6141 Wireless (816) 220-3141 Local home (816) 220-3142 Fax at home - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:40:48 -0700 From: Diane Peel Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] It's not all bad. I guess. On the minus side-- I ran out of gas at the mall I checked two days ago and told my son then nonchalantly went on my way) I told my husband I was parked the wrong side of the mall I broke a bottle of olive oil on my kitchen floor it's the last day of the bookshelf on the plus side-- I was able to get hold of my husband on his cell phone and he came over gladly and helped The additional walking made it 2 1/2 mile I realized I had given my husband the wrong directions right away so waited on the wrong side so I could send him to the right side I only broke the LID of the bottle of olive oile---so only had to clean up about 1/2 cup I got to meet lots of people over several years time, some of whom I'll still be talking to and meeting with from time to time. - ----- Diane Peel Bookseller at Bibliofind - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:54:21 -0700 From: Jean Ohai Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] So long Hope to see you all around. Jean Ohai jeanohai@worldnet.att.net jbohai@home.com jeanohai@lineo.com - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:52:37 -0500 From: "Bill/Pat MacKinnon" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] THE FINAL DAY[s] "And they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks...they shall make war no more." --Well-known Biblical prophecy REQUIEM FOR A HEAVY WEIGHT (LDS-Bookshelf 199?-2001) R.I.P. Born during the intellectual ferment of the mid-1990s, the LDS-Bookshelf (later dubbed 'Shelf) was the legitimate, spontaneous offspring of a monogamous professional relationship between two of the Golden West's sterling bookmen who sought to foster civilized, on-line discourse among adults on the subject of Collectible Mormon Books and closely related topics. The concept was that of a gentleman's library to which bookish guests of both genders were invited with expectations of good behavior and enlightened discussion conducted with civility and in well-modulated (if not dolcet, pear-shaped) tones wafting through the rarefied ether of the 'Shelf's chosen medium. The 'Shelf's creators -- Keith Irwin, distinguished organizational behaviorist of the California School and ermine-clad prelate of South San Jose ecclesiastical circles, and Hugh Josiah McKell, simple, home-spun child of the desert and alleged possessor of a technical "corner" on all LDS books published subsequent to 1829 -- ruled with a trademarked light but unmistakeable touch while assuming the self-effacing title "Co-Janitors" in the tradition not of industrial maintenance men but rather of those ancient pensioned sergeants-major of Her Majesty's Royal Army whom one finds shuffling among the dusty stacks of the British Secret Service's Victorian red brick pile known alternately as London Central Station or "The Circus." It was from this melieu that Messrs. McKell and Irwin produced their epic (and eminently collectible) "Style Guide For Contributors To The LDS-Bookshelf," a self-published, hip work of some 1,500 pages (with reinforced naugahyde binding) that has been acclaimed by the Sausalito "Current"s book reviewer as "...second only to Faulkner's 'The Bear' in its focused devotion to the cultivation of the American run-on sentence." Like all offspring of distinguished parents, the LDS-Bookshelf grew and flourished, but frequently veered in unpredictable directions requiring parental interventions ranging in character between the extremes of the gentle, fatherly pat of the wayward hand to the more draconian regimen now famous among American bookmen as the "Fire In The Lake" treatment, whereby miscreants -- after apprehension by the 'Shelf's nimble shore patrol detachment -- were suspended by the heels in chains slighly above a seething pool of volcanic liquiified sulphur while shrouded professors from a nearby university chanted motivational verses of repentance in a Scandinavian-Persian dialect otherwise reserved for discourses on matters of Central American agriculture and archaeology. As luck would have, the offspring of these great men -- viz. Irwin and McKell -- also took on a persona as varied as it was eclectic with recorded, archived behaviors ranging from that of a gentleman from Burley, Idaho -- a landlocked hamlet of the Inter-Montagne West -- who insisted that he was, in fact, an aardvark residing in a Delphic cave atop Fremont's Island in the midst of the Great Salt Lake to that of a colorful (but obscure) manuscripts dealer who passed each day recumbent within a crushed velvet lined coffin until time for his dusky sorties in search of early LDS manuscripts among the terrorized villages of Upstate New York's Burnt-Over District. Reports dribbling out of the List's archives would appear to verify that the personas assumed by the 'Shelf's lady-participants were even more flamboyant those those flaunted by the lads involved. With Janitorial firmness and persistence, however, the 'Shelf largely stayed the course over the years of its existence and -- true to its franchise -- generated discussion of an admirable quality about some extraordinary collectible items. As listed in the special commemorative issue of the ABA "Bookman" released earlier this month, among the outstanding titles written, discussed, or collected by 'Shelfers were: **"Ice Station Zebra: My Service As Second Counsellor and Designated Driver In The Thule, Greenland Ward" by Albert Gardner. **"Lost Weekend: The Idaho Falls Story" as told to Erma Bombeck by an Unforgettable Lady. **"His Name Was [Originally] Jesse James: The Beaver Island Story" by Norma Jean Herzman. **"Diner! A Traveling Man's Guide To The Less Digestible LDS Collectibles" by Stephen Ecccccles. **"Column Left! Close Order Drill and Trench Warfare at The GSLC Trib" by Wm. Grant Bagley. **"Lust In The Afternoon: Me, Lap[Top] Dancing, and Adventure at The FHL" by Ardis E. Parshall. **"Trouble In Paradise: A Compendium of New Jersey Attics, Basements, and Their Contents" by Keith Irwin. "East of Eden: Collecting Techniques Among Wyoming's University Crowd" by Craig Smith. **"My Brother's Keeper: Tips On Reading The Mind of Bashful Family Members" by Dean Eborn. **"Undercover! My Twenty-Five Years As A Paid-Up Member of The A.C.L.U." by John Redelfs. **"Plumbing In The Post-White House Years: Buchanan, Brick Work, and The Ancillary Structures of The Fifteenth President's Pennsylvania Retirement Home" by Roy Schmidt. **Take It Off! Dust Jackets, Their Value and Treatment" by Hugh J. McKell. **"Baby Blues: My Trials and Triumphs With The KITW Series" by Robert A. Clark. **"The Iron Duke: Mick Reasor, The Mesabi Range and The Perils of Collecting West of Duluth" by Robert Woolley, M.D. **"Code Blue: A Vikings Fan's Account of Bob Woolley As Logician and Team Physician" by Mick Reasor. **"M.H.A. Meetings and The Perils of Photo Interpretation", edited by Ms. Jean Ohai and Mr. Kendall Gubler. **"Collecting To a Fault: Earthquakes, Books and The California Market In/About San Andreas" by Joseph Geisner. **"I Can Get It For You Wholesale: Electricity, Books, and My Life As California's Governor" by Curt Bench (assumed name). **"On a Clear Day You Can See Kankakee: The Marc Rich Pardon and The Pivotal Role of The Hancock County Plaintiffs' Bar" by N. Sigismund Literski, Esq. Like all good things in this Vale of Tears, there came a time when the 'Shelf had run its course. It ceased operations on 10 February 2001, Third Millennium, and was widely mourned by distinguished group of members and those thousands more who had patiently but vainly awaited Listing privileges over an extended period of time. The 'Shelf is survived by its esteemed Co-Janitors in whose honor an endowed chair was recently established on the Panguitch Campus of Deseret University by a large, influential group of repentent 'Shelfers who remain on the qui vive for a dust-jacketed first of "Holy Smoke." Reported by Junius Beaver, Esq., Night Obituary Re-write Editor, "The Clarion," Azusa, Island of California - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - Webpage: http://www.wenet.net/~kirwin/bshelf.html - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ End of lds-bookshelf-digest V1 #907 ***********************************