From: owner-lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com (lds-bookshelf-digest) To: lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: lds-bookshelf-digest V1 #918 Reply-To: lds-bookshelf Sender: owner-lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk lds-bookshelf-digest Saturday, April 7 2001 Volume 01 : Number 918 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:05:16 -0700 From: "Joe Geisner" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Fwd from Will Bagley I know nothing about this, but thought I would pass it along in case someone can help the owner. Joe >Please keep your eyes out for 17-vols of Bancroft's Works, bound in Sheep. They have Otto Mears' name stamped on the spine, and they're stolen. Pass the word to any dealers. Will Bagley _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 09:46:42 -0700 From: "Joe Geisner" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf]Autobiography of John Brown Sorry to those who have seen my post before. I have a few details I left out and feel more comfortable discussing them on a closed list like this. I have bought one of those real treasures for me. I realize it is not a 1st BOM or Book of Commandments, but for me this makes my heart race almost as much. (Not really, but hey when you hit 40 having a thrill over anything ain't bad!) I became interested in the "Autobiography of John Brown" a few years ago when I bought the 2nd printing from Frontier Books. I had been told that the 1st printing was "scarce", and dealers who I had talked with had not ever seen a 1st printing. At that time I figured I would live without the 1st edition/printing since it is so difficult to find. I recently bought a copy of a 1st edition "Autobiography of Pioneer John Brown" from Benchmark Books. When Hugh told me he had found me a copy I was ready to go dancing naked in the streets. I resisted, knowing that I would make my neighbors ill. I am amazed with lack of knowledge about John Brown and using his book as a source in the current books being written (last 20 years). In my research, here is what I find: Will Bagley writes in "Army of Israel" that he was "a remarkable man with a common name" and then quotes from the autobiography. Norma Ricketts, author of "Mormon Battalion" uses John Brown as a source , and "Over the Rim" uses his journal, which is found in his autobiography, extensively. This seems to be the extent of using his autobiography. John Brown was everywhere, he was in Nauvoo to help build the temple, then he's in Mississippi to gather pioneers to meet up with BY, he is then in Pueblo Colo. assisting men and women from the Mormon Battalion, then he's back with the Camp of Israel and he and Orson Pratt are the first to see the SL valley. Then we find him with Parley Pratt and the Southern Utah expedition. He also is invovled in the Utah War, and becomes quite a political leader in Utah. I think he crosses the plains 16 different times! He married three woman and had a large family with each wife. He was also Amy Brown Lyman's father. In "Over the Rim", they have the wrong picture in his bio spot. Ardis Parshall pointed out that this picture, along with bio information on another person are some of the problems with "Over the Rim". John Brown is only mentioned in passing in Arrington's "BY", Cambell's "Establishing Zion" and "Orson Pratt's Journal". It's weird, Eldon Watson quotes everyone elses journal, but never mentions John Brown's. As for the Autobiography.......it was first printed in 1941 by Stevens and Wallis inc. and reprinted in 1981 by Publishers Press. The first printing was done by John Brown's son John Zimmerman Brown and the 2nd printing was done by John Zimmerman Brown jr.. I recently contacted the wife of the man who did the second printing and then his son. They both told me that the publication of the book was done for family. When the first printing became impossible for family to find, the grandson of John Brown decided to do another printing. The wife and son both think there was at least 1000 printed in the second printing. Most of these have gone to family members. They both have no idea how many books were printed up for the 1st printing. I am curious why this autobiography is not as well known (ie. collectable or used as source material) as James Brown's "Life of a Pioneer", or Dan Jones "Forty Years Among the Indians"? I am also curious if any of you know more about the two printings other than what I have written? Joe _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 21:03:05 -0400 From: "Kim Leavitt" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf]Autobiography of John Brown Do you have any theories about this phenomenon? Do you suspect he is being written out of the histories for some reason (a la Jesse Gause), or just overlooked? I've read elsewhere that it was Orson Pratt and Erastus Snow who first saw the SL valley, not OP and John Brown (e.g. http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/lds/ch_hist/arc/slc_view.html). Does John Brown's autobiography report this event? Kim Leavitt - -----Original Message----- From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Joe Geisner Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 12:47 PM To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf]Autobiography of John Brown Sorry to those who have seen my post before. I have a few details I left out and feel more comfortable discussing them on a closed list like this. I have bought one of those real treasures for me. I realize it is not a 1st BOM or Book of Commandments, but for me this makes my heart race almost as much. (Not really, but hey when you hit 40 having a thrill over anything ain't bad!) I became interested in the "Autobiography of John Brown" a few years ago when I bought the 2nd printing from Frontier Books. I had been told that the 1st printing was "scarce", and dealers who I had talked with had not ever seen a 1st printing. At that time I figured I would live without the 1st edition/printing since it is so difficult to find. I recently bought a copy of a 1st edition "Autobiography of Pioneer John Brown" from Benchmark Books. When Hugh told me he had found me a copy I was ready to go dancing naked in the streets. I resisted, knowing that I would make my neighbors ill. I am amazed with lack of knowledge about John Brown and using his book as a source in the current books being written (last 20 years). In my research, here is what I find: Will Bagley writes in "Army of Israel" that he was "a remarkable man with a common name" and then quotes from the autobiography. Norma Ricketts, author of "Mormon Battalion" uses John Brown as a source , and "Over the Rim" uses his journal, which is found in his autobiography, extensively. This seems to be the extent of using his autobiography. John Brown was everywhere, he was in Nauvoo to help build the temple, then he's in Mississippi to gather pioneers to meet up with BY, he is then in Pueblo Colo. assisting men and women from the Mormon Battalion, then he's back with the Camp of Israel and he and Orson Pratt are the first to see the SL valley. Then we find him with Parley Pratt and the Southern Utah expedition. He also is invovled in the Utah War, and becomes quite a political leader in Utah. I think he crosses the plains 16 different times! He married three woman and had a large family with each wife. He was also Amy Brown Lyman's father. In "Over the Rim", they have the wrong picture in his bio spot. Ardis Parshall pointed out that this picture, along with bio information on another person are some of the problems with "Over the Rim". John Brown is only mentioned in passing in Arrington's "BY", Cambell's "Establishing Zion" and "Orson Pratt's Journal". It's weird, Eldon Watson quotes everyone elses journal, but never mentions John Brown's. As for the Autobiography.......it was first printed in 1941 by Stevens and Wallis inc. and reprinted in 1981 by Publishers Press. The first printing was done by John Brown's son John Zimmerman Brown and the 2nd printing was done by John Zimmerman Brown jr.. I recently contacted the wife of the man who did the second printing and then his son. They both told me that the publication of the book was done for family. When the first printing became impossible for family to find, the grandson of John Brown decided to do another printing. The wife and son both think there was at least 1000 printed in the second printing. Most of these have gone to family members. They both have no idea how many books were printed up for the 1st printing. I am curious why this autobiography is not as well known (ie. collectable or used as source material) as James Brown's "Life of a Pioneer", or Dan Jones "Forty Years Among the Indians"? I am also curious if any of you know more about the two printings other than what I have written? Joe _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 00:31:38 -0600 From: "Dennis C. Davis" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] An Unusual Surprise! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0BEFA.1C304200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: DeJONG, Jr., Gerrit - GREATER DIVIDENDS FROM RELIGION Subtitle: A Discussion of the Practicality of some Religious = Teachings of a Peculiar People Deseret Book Company, SLC, 1950, 137 pp. This book has been setting on one of my shelves for at least 30 = years. I avoided reading it because of a false impression that it was = too elementary--you know, Junior Sunday School level stuff. I was = pleasantly surprised, however, when I recently decided to read it. I = found it well written and informative. Even though I didn't agree with = everything Bro. DeJong wrote, it was a pleasing discovery. Three of the chapter titles are "Theology and Religion"; "A Study of = Good and Evil"; and "The Implications of Eternal Progress". You know the old saying which, by the way I don't believe is totally = true, that "You Can't Judge A Book By Its Cover". Well, I learned that = you can't always judge a book by your first impression of it either. Dennis "C" Davis =20 - ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0BEFA.1C304200 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Re:  DeJONG, Jr., Gerrit  = - -  GREATER=20 DIVIDENDS FROM RELIGION
    Subtitle:  A = Discussion of=20 the Practicality of some Religious Teachings of a Peculiar = People
    Deseret Book = Company, SLC, 1950,=20 137 pp.
 
    This book has been = setting on=20 one of my shelves for at least 30 years.  I avoided reading it = because of a=20 false impression that it was too elementary--you know, Junior Sunday = School=20 level stuff.  I was pleasantly surprised, however, when I recently = decided=20 to read it.  I found it well written and informative.  Even = though I=20 didn't agree with everything Bro. DeJong wrote, it was a pleasing=20 discovery.
 
    Three of the = chapter titles=20 are "Theology and Religion"; "A Study of Good and Evil"; and "The = Implications=20 of Eternal Progress".
 
    You know the old = saying which,=20 by the way I don't believe is totally true, that "You Can't Judge A Book = By Its=20 Cover".  Well, I learned that you can't always judge a book by your = first=20 impression of it either.
 
    Dennis "C" = Davis
  
- ------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C0BEFA.1C304200-- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 23:37:33 -0600 From: John Hatch Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] An Unusual Surprise! - --------------8D0D61B9F264707B41CADED2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I remember reading this a few years ago and thinking the EXACT same thing. It looked like a fairly typical inspirational work, but I too was surprised and enjoyed many of the chapters. John "Dennis C. Davis" wrote: > Re: DeJONG, Jr., Gerrit - GREATER DIVIDENDS FROM RELIGION > Subtitle: A Discussion of the Practicality of some Religious > Teachings of a Peculiar People Deseret Book Company, SLC, 1950, 137 > pp. This book has been setting on one of my shelves for at least > 30 years. I avoided reading it because of a false impression that it > was too elementary--you know, Junior Sunday School level stuff. I was > pleasantly surprised, however, when I recently decided to read it. I > found it well written and informative. Even though I didn't agree > with everything Bro. DeJong wrote, it was a pleasing discovery. > Three of the chapter titles are "Theology and Religion"; "A Study of > Good and Evil"; and "The Implications of Eternal Progress". You > know the old saying which, by the way I don't believe is totally true, > that "You Can't Judge A Book By Its Cover". Well, I learned that you > can't always judge a book by your first impression of it either. > Dennis "C" Davis - --------------8D0D61B9F264707B41CADED2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I remember reading this a few years ago and thinking the EXACT same thing.  It looked like a fairly typical inspirational work, but I too was surprised and enjoyed many of the chapters.

John

"Dennis C. Davis" wrote:

Re:  DeJONG, Jr., Gerrit  -  GREATER DIVIDENDS FROM RELIGION    Subtitle:  A Discussion of the Practicality of some Religious Teachings of a Peculiar People    Deseret Book Company, SLC, 1950, 137 pp.     This book has been setting on one of my shelves for at least 30 years.  I avoided reading it because of a false impression that it was too elementary--you know, Junior Sunday School level stuff.  I was pleasantly surprised, however, when I recently decided to read it.  I found it well written and informative.  Even though I didn't agree with everything Bro. DeJong wrote, it was a pleasing discovery.     Three of the chapter titles are "Theology and Religion"; "A Study of Good and Evil"; and "The Implications of Eternal Progress".     You know the old saying which, by the way I don't believe is totally true, that "You Can't Judge A Book By Its Cover".  Well, I learned that you can't always judge a book by your first impression of it either.     Dennis "C" Davis
- --------------8D0D61B9F264707B41CADED2-- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2001 08:27:19 -0800 From: "Dennis Nelson" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] An Unusual Surprise! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C07883.A691DD40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This is one of the wonderful benefits of Bookshelf. Were I to see this book on a shelf, I would likely pass it by as generic or common, and miss out on some useful experiences. Thank you both for the heads up notification. Incidently, I am curious to know the bar code legend for books, as I have been trying out the book data base recently commented on her by Brian, I think. Are the first three or four numbers subject matter? Are there a couple for publisher? Rick, perhaps you know the story? By the way, I can figure out no pattern to the books, when scanned that have a picture of the cover in the data base, and those that do not. Thus far, it seems Signature and FARMS are most likely publishers to have a photo retrieved by the data base program. -----Original Message----- From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of John Hatch Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:38 PM To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] An Unusual Surprise! I remember reading this a few years ago and thinking the EXACT same thing. It looked like a fairly typical inspirational work, but I too was surprised and enjoyed many of the chapters. John "Dennis C. Davis" wrote: Re: DeJONG, Jr., Gerrit - GREATER DIVIDENDS FROM RELIGION Subtitle: A Discussion of the Practicality of some Religious Teachings of a Peculiar People Deseret Book Company, SLC, 1950, 137 pp. This book has been setting on one of my shelves for at least 30 years. I avoided reading it because of a false impression that it was too elementary--you know, Junior Sunday School level stuff. I was pleasantly surprised, however, when I recently decided to read it. I found it well written and informative. Even though I didn't agree with everything Bro. DeJong wrote, it was a pleasing discovery. Three of the chapter titles are "Theology and Religion"; "A Study of Good and Evil"; and "The Implications of Eternal Progress". You know the old saying which, by the way I don't believe is totally true, that "You Can't Judge A Book By Its Cover". Well, I learned that you can't always judge a book by your first impression of it either. Dennis "C" Davis - ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C07883.A691DD40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This=20 is one of the wonderful benefits of Bookshelf. Were I to see this book = on a=20 shelf, I would likely pass it by as generic or common, and miss out on=20 some
useful=20 experiences. Thank you both for the heads up = notification.
Incidently, I am curious to know the bar code legend for books, = as I have=20 been trying out the book data base recently commented on her by Brian, I = think.
Are=20 the first three or four numbers subject matter? Are there a couple for=20 publisher? Rick, perhaps you know the story? By the way, I can figure = out no=20 pattern
to the=20 books, when scanned that have a picture of the cover in the data base, = and those=20 that do not. Thus far, it seems Signature and FARMS are most=20 likely
publishers to have a photo retrieved by the data base=20 program.
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com=20 [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of = John=20 Hatch
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2001 10:38 PM
To:=20 lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: = [LDS-Bookshelf] An=20 Unusual Surprise!

I remember reading this a few = years ago=20 and thinking the EXACT same thing.  It looked like a fairly = typical=20 inspirational work, but I too was surprised and enjoyed many of the = chapters.=20

John=20

"Dennis C. Davis" wrote:=20

Re:  DeJONG, Jr., = Gerrit  - =20 GREATER DIVIDENDS FROM RELIGION    Subtitle:  A Discussion of the = Practicality=20 of some Religious Teachings of a Peculiar People    Deseret Book = Company, SLC, 1950,=20 137 pp.    =20 This book has been setting on one of my shelves for at least 30 = years. =20 I avoided reading it because of a false impression that it was too=20 elementary--you know, Junior Sunday School level stuff.  I was=20 pleasantly surprised, however, when I recently decided to read = it.  I=20 found it well written and informative.  Even though I didn't = agree with=20 everything Bro. DeJong wrote, it was a pleasing=20 discovery.     Three of the chapter titles are = "Theology and=20 Religion"; "A Study of Good and Evil"; and "The Implications of = Eternal=20 Progress".     You know the old saying which, by the = way I don't=20 believe is totally true, that "You Can't Judge A Book By Its = Cover". =20 Well, I learned that you can't always judge a book by your first = impression=20 of it either.     Dennis "C" Davis
- ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01C07883.A691DD40-- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 09:00:30 -0600 From: "Hugh Stocks" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] (Fwd) [SL] O Cowdery "Defense" 0100,0100,0100I wonder if anyone here has an answer to this query that appeared on another list? - ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Has anyone on the list seen information relative to a pamphlet entitled "Defense" purported to have been written by O. Cowdery in 1838 after his expulsion from the church. I happened across this, as well as a brief notation on a web site suggesting that this document is a 1906 forgery. I was curious whether anyone on the list was aware of some of the evidence used to detect this as a forgery. Much of the writing seems to be in the same style as brother Cowdery's early writings, but a lot of it appears suspect to me as well. Peter Hugh Stocks hstocks@vii.com Computers will save the world! (when we find the right program.) - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 14:50:41 EDT From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Additional bookselling humor The second in my series of amusing internet exchanges, resulting from my website. Curt, I just had to do this - perhaps the devil made me do it. Besides, my compliments were sincere, and the gentleman may even buy things! Chuckling, RickBook [quoted e-mail exchange follows:] In a message dated 04/07/2001 12:35:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, k4hx@webkorner.com writes: << 4/6/01 11:23:28 PM Hello Rick- I stumbled upon your offerring on eBay for the set of (2) pages from a 1st edition of the Book of Mormon. Wow! I had no idea that only two leaves from such a book would be worth several hundreds of dollars (or more, the auction is ongoing)! What would a complete copy of the book bring? I did a search on eBay for interesting things pertaining to Church history just to have something to do. When I saw the link on your eBay ad to your website, I was naturally drawn to its exploration. I must say it has been fascinating! A beautifully structured site, I might add! Your website may have sparked a new adventure for me. To seek and find some kind of old and/or rare treasure that is related to the Church, one of my life's passions. Unfortunately, it doesn't take much time to be made aware of the rather high price such antiquities demand. My question to you is...what can be had that is perhaps not so rare as to be highly valued by well endowed collectors only, but that is nontheless interesting to an average member of the Church, such as I? I would also like to ask you the following personal question: Are you in any way apostate or rebellious towards the church? The only reason I ask is that when reading about some of the items you have for sale that tend to deal with contemporary articles written about Joseph Smith, and glancing over your novel and its subtitle, I get the feeling (nagging hunch) that you might be someone who has set out to prove, in this day and time, that Joseph was a phony. Perhaps I am simply confusing the intent of those in Joseph's day with that of your own, and am jumping to conclusions, not having read your book in its entirety. Please forgive if this is the case. If, in fact, you have a strong testimony, and that Mormon antiquities fascinate you, as they appear to have begun to fascinate me, or that Church history collectibles are simply your business, I apologize. Nevertheless, I would suggest that you publish your Testimony on your website, so that potential new customers like me don't misunderstand your purpose in seeking these things and offerring them for sale to others. Best regards, . . . . . >> Dear . . . . ., I am not the only person who has commented to fellow collectors and dealers in recent years how surprising it is, that there are people out there who feel they have a right to ask highly personal questions of total strangers. I have customers who have spent tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars with me over the years, yet we would never dream of broaching each others' personal boundaries in such a manner. From long experience, I should also add that if you use someone's proclaimed faithfulness and commitment to the LDS Church as a basis for whether or not to trust them in business dealings - then you had better hold on to their wallet. Let me say, on the other hand, that I believe you are sincere, and that you certainly deserve access to the fascinating world of Mormon collectibles. Let me therefore refer you to my good friend and colleague, who is a model of LDS orthodoxy and worthiness, faithful to the LDS Church (Salt Lake City Church, not Reorganized, not Fundamentalist, etc.), highly knowledgeable about LDS books, and honest in his dealings. (I feel certain that he has a strong testimony, although he may not be willing to perform on command.) . . . Curt Bench Benchmark Books Salt Lake City, Utah (801) 486-3111 - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 15:13:22 EDT From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf]Autobiography of John Brown In a message dated 04/06/2001 9:03:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kleavitt@mediaone.net writes: << Do you have any theories about this phenomenon? Do you suspect he is being written out of the histories for some reason (a la Jesse Gause), or just overlooked? I've read elsewhere that it was Orson Pratt and Erastus Snow who first saw the SL valley, not OP and John Brown (e.g. http://www.xmission.com/~dkenison/lds/ch_hist/arc/slc_view.html). Does John Brown's autobiography report this event? Kim Leavitt >> When I watch "Jeopardy" at nights, I am constantly amazed at the pockets of information which some people miss - particularly because most of those contestants are obviously more informed than I. And on "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire" the other night (multiple choice questions, remember), a very bright young man had to call a friend to learn who wrote "Paradise Lost." (It just blew me away. Of course, the moment the question turned to movies, I hadn't the slightest clue to the answer.) And then, there was a certain BYU faculty friend of mine back in the 1970s (PHd in history) who had not heard of Cervantes, author of "Don Quixote." So it is with John Brown. I had never heard of him until the recent posts here on LDS Bookshelf. Don't know what that means, but it is easy for a great source to get overlooked, as we all know from each of our personal favored books! Rick Grunder - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 12:33:15 -0700 From: Keith Irwin Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] (Fwd) [SL] O Cowdery "Defense" - --=====================_3372388==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Perhaps someone could enquire of Scott Faulring. Does anyone know the status of his book, "Witness of the Second Elder, The Documentary History of Oliver Cowdery?" Some time ago I purchased a copy of "the last" pre-publication draft and was told at the time that publication would occur within the year. That was a several years ago. Keith At 09:00 AM 4/7/01 -0600, you wrote: >I wonder if anyone here has an answer to this query that appeared on >another list? > >------- Forwarded message follows ------- > >Has anyone on the list seen information relative to >a pamphlet entitled "Defense" purported to have been >written by O. Cowdery in 1838 after his expulsion from >the church. I happened across this, as well as a brief >notation on a web site suggesting that this document >is a 1906 forgery. > >I was curious whether anyone on the list was aware of >some of the evidence used to detect this as a forgery. > >Much of the writing seems to be in the same style as >brother Cowdery's early writings, but a lot of it appears >suspect to me as well. > >Peter > > > >Hugh Stocks hstocks@vii.com > > Computers will save the world! (when we find the right > program.) > > > >---------------------------------------------------------- - >LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - To unsubscribe, >send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - "unsubscribe >lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - For assistance, >mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - --=====================_3372388==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Perhaps someone could enquire of Scott Faulring.  Does anyone know the status of his book, "Witness of the Second Elder, The Documentary History of Oliver Cowdery?"   

Some time ago I purchased a copy of "the last" pre-publication draft and was told at the time that publication would occur within the year.  That was a several years ago.

Keith


At 09:00 AM 4/7/01 -0600, you wrote:
I wonder if anyone here has an answer to this query that appeared on another list?

- ------- Forwarded message follows -------

Has anyone on the list seen information relative to
a pamphlet entitled "Defense" purported to have been
written by O. Cowdery in 1838 after his expulsion from
the church.  I happened across this, as well as a brief
notation on a web site suggesting that this document
is a 1906 forgery.

I was curious whether anyone on the list was aware of
some of the evidence used to detect this as a forgery.

Much of the writing seems to be in the same style as
brother Cowdery's early writings, but a lot of it appears
suspect to me as well.

Peter 



Hugh
Stocks                       
hstocks@vii.com 

           Computers
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program.) 



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- --=====================_3372388==_.ALT-- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 15:51:52 EDT From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] (Fwd) [SL] O Cowdery "Defense" The 1906 R. B. Neal anti-Mormon pamphlet which published the text of this purported 1839 pamphlet is, so far as I know, the earliest known appearance. I also understand that no printing shop is known to have existed in the town of Norton, Ohio, named in the purported original imprint. This, just off the top of my head, and Flake entry 2544. So far as "some of the evidence used to detect this as a forgery," mentioned in the relayed query, there would never be a danger of mistaking the Neal pamphlet as an 1839 imprint. We are dealing here with a simple lack of an 1839 original anywhere, it seems. I have heard that Juanita Brooks believed at one time that the text might have been an authentic 1839 work, but no real evidence for that has been presented which I have seen. When I began to read the text at one time, I stopped after a few paragraphs, feeling that the writing style could never have come from the pen of Oliver Cowdery. Just my personal reactions. Rick Grunder - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 13:00:26 -0700 From: Keith Irwin Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Why doesn't this happen to me? Rick and I seem prone to reporting transcripts. Here's another phone call that happened last Monday evening. She: Bishop Irwin. A mutual friend told me that you repair old books. Me: Oh, I do simple repairs on my own books and occasionally for friends. Why? She: Well, I bought a copy of The History of Utah by Bancroft on the internet for $35 and it has some loose pages. Me: I see. Is the binding tan colored leather or red cloth? She: Red Cloth with gold and black on it. Me: Nice. That's the pictorial edition and it's fairly scarce. Look opposite page 20 and you should see a color plate. She: [pause] Nope. No picture there. Me: How about opposite page 79? Should be a picture of missionaries with the Indians. She: Nope! Me: [quickly scrambling through Flake] Hmmm. There is a variant of this book with no plates. She: It was originally in a library. Me: That may explain it. How do you know it came from a library? Does it have a stamp or pocket? She: There is a note in the front from the donor: "Presented to the ???? Library, Wilford Woodruff." Me: [Stunned silence] Oh! I suppose I could have been a scumbag and offered her the chance to triple her money but I didn't. She now knows she has something and I'll tip in some pages in the next few weeks. Keith - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ End of lds-bookshelf-digest V1 #918 ***********************************