From: owner-lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com (lds-bookshelf-digest) To: lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: lds-bookshelf-digest V1 #943 Reply-To: lds-bookshelf Sender: owner-lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk lds-bookshelf-digest Wednesday, June 12 2002 Volume 01 : Number 943 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:03:03 -0600 From: "Morgan Adair" Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] County Histories >>> steve.eccles2@verizon.net 05/21/02 08:45PM >>> > >I have the complete set, but not autographed. what is the status of this >series? Is it sold out or are some volumes sold out? Value?? When I bought the set from the Historical Society bookstore about 18 months ago they said that some of the volumes were nearly sold out. The BYU bookstore has a few volumes on the shelf, so some are still available. MBA - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 May 2002 21:11:32 -0700 From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] County Histories This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C2010C.189D6A00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's been there for some time now. Time will tell whether 29 autographs = are worth that much money. =20 Last I heard, which was a coupla months ago, all volumes were still available. Keith -----Original Message----- From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 6:46 PM To: lds-bookshelf Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] County Histories Look at this: 15. Glen Leonard, Ross Peterson, Martha Bradley, Jessie Embry, Douglas Alder, Karl Brooks, Linda King Newell, Linda Sillitoe, Richard Holzapfel, Leo Lyman, Allen Roberts, Kent Powell and 21 Others = UTAH CENTENNIAL COUNTY HISTORY SERIES, 29 Vols. SIGNED BY ALL AUTHORS Salt Lake City, UT, U.S.A.: Utah State Historical Society, 1996 Hard Cover. Fine/Fine. First Edition, First Printing. 29 vols., = 12,124 pages, 33 authors, 2 general editors. All volumes blue cloth with gold = foil stamping on front and spine. Dust jackets in 29 different colors = designed by graphic artist Richard Firmage, each with a b&w photo of a historical building from the county on the front and a scenic photo on the back in two-tone black and the color of dj. All DJs protected by the highest = quality archival Brodart covers. Each volume includes a map of the county, = chapter endnotes, numerous illustrations, a selected bibliography, and thorough index (and sometimes appendices). This is ONE OF SIX SPECIALLY PREPARED SETS. Each volume is signed by ALL of its authors (sometimes as many as = 3), hand-dated in the 1999 by one or more of the authors, and signed by both = of the general editors. Because many of the books have multiple authors and some authors participated in writing two or three books, there are a = total of 40 author signatures and 58 editor signatures in the set. On the = front paste-down endpaper, an archival foil-backed, pH neutral color label has been applied that reads: "This is one of six / specially prepared sets / = of the 29-volume / Utah Centennial County / History Series, signed by / all = 33 authors and both / general editors, with each / volume hand-dated by its = / author in the the 1990s. The authors come from a wide range of = backgrounds and experience, including professional historians, professors, long-time local residents, Church employees, and archivists. In 1999, after = several months of research to locate the authors and another six weeks of correspondence and telephone calls to arrange meetings, two of us took a = two week road trip through Utah and California, meeting with each author, discussing their writing of the history, and having them sign six = copies. The authors were geographically dispersed from North Carolina to Arizona = and Deep Springs, California. In Utah, they live in practically every county from Cache Valley in the north to St. George and Monticello in the south = and many small and sometimes remote places in between. Many of the authors = had signed very few copies of the book and most had never dated copies = before those from this set. One author generally refuses to sign the book = because of a dispute over changes made by the County Commission before = publication, but relented and signed these copies after receiving two hours of free = legal advice on his copyright rights to his longer, unpublished, manuscript. Another author was in a rest home, barely able to sign his name. NO = OTHER SETS HAVE BEEN FULLY SIGNED AND IT IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY THAN ANY OTHER = SETS EVER WILL BE. For photographs of the set, please refer to my Yahoo photo site at http://photos.yahoo.com/psbooks2 and click on "Auctions." Free hand-delivery within 50 miles of Salt Lake City. For those outside the = area, buyer can choose INSURED shipment by media mail for $35 (1-2 weeks = delivery time) or priority mail for $65 (2-4 days delivery time). Bookseller Inventory # 000056 Price: US$ 2000.00 convert currency Presented by Pierian Spring Books, Sandy, UT, U.S.A. (SEARCH THIS SELLERS INVENTORY )=20 order options =20 I have the complete set, but not autographed. what is the status of this series? Is it sold out or are some volumes sold out? = Value?? --Steve - ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C2010C.189D6A00 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef; name="winmail.dat" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IiYEAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANIHBQAVABYACwAAAAIAFgEB A5AGAHQYAAAtAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADAC4AAAAAAAMANgAA AAAAHgBwAAEAAAAhAAAAW0xEUy1Cb29rc2hlbGZdIENvdW50eSBIaXN0b3JpZXMAAAAAAgFxAAEA AAAbAAAAAcIBOrxfu5qBYm0AEdaEI6LS7AAAAAAC8ucgAAIBHQwBAAAAGwAAAFNNVFA6SVJXSU5L V0BFQVJUSExJTksuTkVUAAALAAEOAAAAAEAABg4ASt0PTwHCAQIBCg4BAAAAGAAAAAAAAACVMnSv 78KRRrVJb8RNqjozwoAAAAMAFA4AAAAACwAfDgEAAAAeACgOAQAAADIAAAAwMDAwMDAwNAFpcndp bmt3QGVhcnRobGluay5uZXQBbWFpbC5lYXJ0aGxpbmsubmV0AAAAHgApDgEAAAAyAAAAMDAwMDAw MDQBaXJ3aW5rd0BlYXJ0aGxpbmsubmV0AW1haWwuZWFydGhsaW5rLm5ldAAAAAIBCRABAAAASxMA 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---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 May 2002 12:13:01 -0600 From: Ken Sanders Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] County Histories We have a set available of all 29 county histories priced at $600 (not signed). Hard to say what one of the signed sets is worth, but they're certainly uncommon. Ken Sanders Morgan Adair wrote: > >>> steve.eccles2@verizon.net 05/21/02 08:45PM >>> > > > >I have the complete set, but not autographed. what is the status of > this > >series? Is it sold out or are some volumes sold out? Value?? > > When I bought the set from the Historical Society bookstore about 18 > months ago they said that some of the volumes were nearly sold out. The > BYU bookstore has a few volumes on the shelf, so some are still > available. > > MBA > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books > - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with > - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. > - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - -- Ken Sanders Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA 268 South 200 East Salt Lake City UT 84111 (801) 521-3819 Fax: (801) 521-2606 http://www.kensandersbooks.com ken@dreamgarden.com - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 May 2002 09:47:49 -0700 From: "Albert Gardner" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Forerunners of Mormonism Rick Grunder used to tease us from time to time about his research on parallels and forerunners of Mormonism such as Sherman's 1805 book "One God In One Person Only: and Jesus Christ A Being Distinct From God". I was out tracting with the Elders last week as a Ward Missionary and got into an interesting discussion on this subject. Although some might argue that these prove that Mormonism is not as original and unique as some like to argue, another slant is that Mormonism is not as far out as some evangelicals currently claim. In other words, many specific Mormon claims have been made by orthodox Christians previously. My research at this point in comparative religion indicates that there is as great a diversity among a religion as there is between various religions. Does anyone else have some titles concerning the Mormon position on such areas as the Trinity, continuing revelation, priesthood authority, the Holy Ghost, Atonement, etc.? Albert Gardner Yuma Territorial Penitentiary, AZ - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 14:46:13 -0600 From: "Clark Goble" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Forerunners of Mormonism ___ Albert ___ | Does anyone else have some titles concerning the Mormon | position on such areas as the Trinity, continuing revelation, | priesthood authority, the Holy Ghost, Atonement, etc.? ___ I'm not quite sure what you mean. Do you mean pre-1830 or 1840 texts related to Mormon theological notions? If so then there are many. Probably every position could be found in some text, if only because there isn't much new under the sun that someone hadn't thought up in some form or an other. Quinn has quite a few in the so-called "magic worldview" in his _Mormonism and the Magic World View_. Personally I think a lot of his assertions would be better termed Renaissance Philosophy parallels. For more formal theological parallels you might check out Blake Ostler's _The Mormon Attributes of God_. It's the first volume of a philosophical analysis of Mormon theology. It shows lots of parallels in prior thought. - -- Clark Goble --- clark@lextek.com ----------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 21:46:06 -0700 From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Cataloging gov't docs This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C21191.67E8B7F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit How do you catalog government documents like presidential or other messages to congress? For example, how would you catalog Phillip St. George Cooke's journal of the Mormon Battalion march? It is a senate document titled, "Report of the Secretary of War ." The Secretary is Asbury Dickins. So do you catalog this under Dickins, Cooke, or U.S. Senate? I've puzzled over this with presidential messages having to do with the Utah war. Do you catalog them under Buchannan? Keith - ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C21191.67E8B7F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cataloging gov't docs

How = do you catalog government documents like presidential or other messages to = congress?  For example, how would you catalog Phillip St. = George Cooke’s journal of the Mormon = Battalion march?  It is a senate document = titled, = “Report of the Secretary of = War …”  The Secretary is Asbury Dickins.  So do you = catalog this under Dickins, Cooke, or U.S. Senate?

I’ve puzzled over this with presidential messages having to = do with the Utah war.  Do you catalog them under Buchannan? =

Keith

- ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C21191.67E8B7F0-- - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2002 22:57:00 -0600 From: "Morgan Adair" Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Cataloging gov't docs Here's how the BYU library cataloged it: Personal Author: Cooke, Philip St. George, 1809-1895. =20 Title: Report from the Secretary of War : communicating, in compliance with a resolution of the Senate, of the 21st February, 1849, a copy of the official journal of Lieutenant Colonel Philip St. George Cooke, from Santa F=E9 to San Diego, &c. =20 Publication info: [Washington : Printed at the Union Office, 1849] =20 Physical description: 85 p. ; 23 cm. =20 Series: Senate document (United States. Congress. Senate) ; 31st Congress, Special session, no.2 =20 Series: Document / 31st Congress, Special session, Senate ; no.2 =20 General Note: "March 19, 1849. Read, and ordered to be printed." =20 References: Flake, C.J. Mormon bib., 2500 =20 Local note: Cooke commanded the Mormon Battalion. =20 Corporate subject: United States. Army. Mormon Battalion. =20 Subject term: Mexican War, 1846-1848. =20 Geographic term: Southwest, New--Description and travel. =20 Geographic term: United States--Exploring expeditions. =20 Added Author: United States. War Dept. =20 >>> irwinkw@earthlink.net 06/11/02 10:46PM >>> How do you catalog government documents like presidential or other messages to congress? For example, how would you catalog Phillip St. George Cooke's journal of the Mormon Battalion march? It is a senate document titled, "Report of the Secretary of War ." The Secretary is Asbury Dickins. So do you catalog this under Dickins, Cooke, or U.S. Senate? I've puzzled over this with presidential messages having to do with the Utah war. Do you catalog them under Buchannan?=20 Keith - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 13:49:58 EDT From: RickBook@aol.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Cataloging gov't docs In a message dated 6/12/02 12:45:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes: << How do you catalog government documents like presidential or other messages to congress? For example, how would you catalog Phillip St. George Cooke's journal of the Mormon Battalion march? It is a senate document titled, "Report of the Secretary of War ." The Secretary is Asbury Dickins. So do you catalog this under Dickins, Cooke, or U.S. Senate? I've puzzled over this with presidential messages having to do with the Utah war. Do you catalog them under Buchannan? Keith >> This is a highly complex issue, with many aspects to consider. Fortunately for the private collector, one is free to catalog an item in any consistent manner one wishes, if it is merely being cataloged for one's own collection organization & control. If, on the other hand, the goal is to achieve consistency with other collections or researchers, one must choose the community or format to which one wants to conform. The concept of "main entry" is central to library cataloging. The main entry is the initial heading, the first words one sees at the beginning of a cataloging entry for a publication. If followed according to commonly accepted research library standards, the assigning of main entry is technical but highly consistent. In the new age of computers, of course, much of the danger of missing an item, or of inadvertent duplicate buying and duplicate cataloging, is removed. This is because the computer can search under many different fields. But before computers, it was essential that everyone establish and use the same main entry. Otherwise, one might search a library card catalog under the wrong heading, and miss the book. One of my central duties at BYU library in the 1970s was to oversee the checking of all items (yikes! hundreds of thousands of them) given or offered for sale to the library, to see if we already had the item. It was not sufficient to trust secondary entries (such as subject or title entry cards), because only the main entry card was absolutely guaranteed. Titles can vary, for example, depending on whether one uses the full title with introductory caption, or just the commonly quoted portion of the title. Try looking up Jonathan Edwards' FREEDOM OF THE WILL under that title, and you may not find it in a card catalog (the computer, of course, will find it if the search parameters are set correctly). Boring? Probably, but the concept of "main entry" introduces an awareness of extreme bibliographic discipline which most collectors non-librarians do not enjoy. Cataloging a book is at least as technical as doing an algebra problem - if you care about that sort of thing. Chad Flake uses standard library main entries, except in those areas of Mormonism where it becomes necessary to devise his own entries using the principles of general library rules (because of the wider breadth or greater numbers of items available to him in the narrower world of Mormonism which might not be handled adequately by the cataloging rules of the general library world). In general, a single author's name is the main entry of that book. In most anonymous books, the title is the main entry. If a government report is issued in an official agency capacity, the main entry is often the governmental entity issuing the report. But if a report is clearly a private undertaking or individual initiative, even if published by a governmental entity, it may have the author's name as its main entry. Thus, Keith's report by Cooke is listed in Flake (entry 2500) under "Cooke, Philip St. George," as contrasted by similar items like Flake entries 9249-51 (other reports of Secretaries of War, transmitted by the President to Congress, and listed under the main entry, "United States. War Department"). Similarly, some documents have "Utah (Territory) Governor. 1850-1858 (Young)" as the main entry (remember, this is a MAIN entry, NOT a subject entry), and some have "Young, Brigham" as the main entry. Some entries LOOK like subject entries, but are legitimate main entries, as agreed upon over the years by library consensus. Thus, "Shakers" is the legitimate main entry (again, NOT the subject entry in this particular capacity, though "Shakers" might ALSO be a legitimate subject entry to consider) for the Shaker book, A SUMMARY VIEW OF THE MILLENNIAL CHURCH . . . (Albany, 1823, compiled by joint editors Calvin Green and Seth Y. Wells). So what does this all mean? Well, here is an entry in the periodicals portion of the bibliography of my friend Dan Vogel's book, INDIAN ORIGINS AND THE BOOK OF MORMON: "Collections of the Massachusetts Historical Society. Boston, 1792-19- . . ." GASP! <> no! no! no! This can NOT work. Shame on Signature Books. I don't care WHAT the Chicago Manual of Style may dictate - it's just not good enough. Why? Because without using proper main entry, such a heading will get lost in a larger library among hundreds, conceivably thousands of other "Collections . . ." by other entities, and the poor researcher would spend all day hunting through the list. I specifically looked for this item in Dan's book years ago and failed to find it, because I was searching there under proper main entry. It simply never occurred to me that ANYONE could POSSIBLY think it correct to start such an entry with a word like "Collections" or "Transactions" or "Report of . . ." etc. I don't have the National Union Catalog in front of me (obviously - more than 700 folio volumes, more then 50,000 PAGES of entries beginning with the letter "S" alone), but the correct main entry of the above might be something like this: Massachusetts Historical Society (Boston). Collections. First series, 1792- . . . The above may not be precisely correct, but it gives the general idea. It is orderly, it is organized, and it will be consistent in serious libraries from Seattle to Miami. Here are some interesting correct main entries, showing the variety, and yes, the occasional insanity of the old but consistent system: SAMPLE MAIN ENTRIES - none of the following words represent parts of the titles of the books. In the actual cataloged entries, the titles would be placed immediately following these main entries. American Antiquarian Society. Brown, John. Bible. New Testament. Timothy. Cherokee. 1844. Worcester. [yes, all of this is required, and none of this is intended here as part of the title. It takes five massive volumes of the National Union Catalog to get through "Bible," and such a detailed system is necessary to guarnatee some semblance of order and logical arrangement] Bible. Old Testament. Apocryphal Books. Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs. English. 1843. Book of Mormon. Spanish. 1886. Kelly, Charles, and Maurice L. Howe. Hewett, Edgar Lee, Junius Henderson, and Wilfred William Robbins. [more than 3 authors reverts to title, I believe, or to the first individual given, followed by "comp., ed.," or whatever applies, if memory serves.] Deseret. University. [for the two Deseret primers] Haussonville, Gabriel Paul Othenin de Cleron, comte d'. Austria. Laws, statutes, etc. Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Parma. Gachard, Louis Prosper, ed. Justinus, Marcus Junianus [plain old Justin; many ancient and medieval names are more complex than the single-word names by which we know them in common parlance today] Lytton, Edward George, Lord. Equitable Society of London. [an early insurance company] France. Assemblee National Constituante, 1789-1791. Paris. Bibliotheque Nationale, Departement des Manuscrits. Smithsonian Institution. Bureau of American Ethnology, Bulletin 78. [again, this is main entry, not any part of the title] Again, if you are just having fun cataloging your own collection, none of this is really necessary. But, we old book & mss. people enjoy a certain amount of tradition. For those of us crazy enough to think this is fun, there is sufficient tradition and punctilious precision to excite us in the quest for correct main entries. Rick Grunder - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 20:40:51 -0700 From: "Keith Irwin" Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Cataloging gov't docs I'm going to hire you, Rick. It was the seeming conflicting methods in Flake that threw me. The example I used is listed under Cooke but others are listed as you described - by government, office, dates and name of officer. I will have to think about this a bit and decide on a consistent method. Right now I've got every schema imaginable. Keith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of RickBook@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2002 9:50 AM To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Cataloging gov't docs In a message dated 6/12/02 12:45:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes: << How do you catalog government documents like presidential or other messages to congress? For example, how would you catalog Phillip St. George Cooke's journal of the Mormon Battalion march? It is a senate document titled, "Report of the Secretary of War ." The Secretary is Asbury Dickins. So do you catalog this under Dickins, Cooke, or U.S. Senate? I've puzzled over this with presidential messages having to do with the Utah war. Do you catalog them under Buchannan? Keith >> This is a highly complex issue, with many aspects to consider. Fortunately for the private collector, one is free to catalog an item in any consistent manner one wishes, if it is merely being cataloged for one's own collection organization & control. If, on the other hand, the goal is to achieve consistency with other collections or researchers, one must choose the community or format to which one wants to conform. The concept of "main entry" is central to library cataloging. The main entry is the initial heading, the first words one sees at the beginning of a cataloging entry for a publication. If followed according to commonly accepted research library standards, the assigning of main entry is technical but highly consistent. In the new age of computers, of course, much of the danger of missing an item, or of inadvertent duplicate buying and duplicate cataloging, is removed. This is because the computer can search under many different fields. But before computers, it was essential that everyone establish and use the same main entry. Otherwise, one might search a library card catalog under the wrong heading, and miss the book. One of my central duties at BYU library in the 1970s was to oversee the checking of all items (yikes! hundreds of thousands of them) given or offered for sale to the library, to see if we already had the item. It was not sufficient to trust secondary entries (such as subject or title entry cards), because only the main entry card was absolutely guaranteed. Titles can vary, for example, depending on whether one uses the full title with introductory caption, or just the commonly quoted portion of the title. Try looking up Jonathan Edwards' FREEDOM OF THE WILL under that title, and you may not find it in a card catalog (the computer, of course, will find it if the search parameters are set correctly). Boring? Probably, but the concept of "main entry" introduces an awareness of extreme bibliographic discipline which most collectors non-librarians do not enjoy. Cataloging a book is at least as technical as doing an algebra problem - if you care about that sort of thing. Chad Flake uses standard library main entries, except in those areas of Mormonism where it becomes necessary to devise his own entries using the principles of general library rules (because of the wider breadth or greater numbers of items available to him in the narrower world of Mormonism which might not be handled adequately by the cataloging rules of the general library world). In general, a single author's name is the main entry of that book. In most anonymous books, the title is the main entry. If a government report is issued in an official agency capacity, the main entry is often the governmental entity issuing the report. But if a report is clearly a private undertaking or individual initiative, even if published by a governmental entity, it may have the author's name as its main entry. Thus, Keith's report by Cooke is listed in Flake (entry 2500) under "Cooke, Philip St. George," as contrasted by similar items like Flake entries 9249-51 (other reports of Secretaries of War, transmitted by the President to Congress, and listed under the main entry, "United States. War Department"). Similarly, some documents have "Utah (Territory) Governor. 1850-1858 (Young)" as the main entry (remember, this is a MAIN entry, NOT a subject entry), and some have "Young, Brigham" as the main entry. Some entries LOOK like subject entries, but are legitimate main entries, as agreed upon over the years by library consensus. Thus, "Shakers" is the legitimate main entry (again, NOT the subject entry in this particular capacity, though "Shakers" might ALSO be a legitimate subject entry to consider) for the Shaker book, A SUMMARY VIEW OF THE MILLENNIAL CHURCH . . . (Albany, 1823, compiled by joint editors Calvin Green and Seth Y. Wells). So what does this all mean? Well, here is an entry in the periodicals portion of the bibliography of my friend Dan Vogel's book, INDIAN ORIGINS AND THE BOOK OF MORMON: "Collections of the Massachusetts Historical Society. Boston, 1792-19- . . ." GASP! <> no! no! no! This can NOT work. Shame on Signature Books. I don't care WHAT the Chicago Manual of Style may dictate - it's just not good enough. Why? Because without using proper main entry, such a heading will get lost in a larger library among hundreds, conceivably thousands of other "Collections . . ." by other entities, and the poor researcher would spend all day hunting through the list. I specifically looked for this item in Dan's book years ago and failed to find it, because I was searching there under proper main entry. It simply never occurred to me that ANYONE could POSSIBLY think it correct to start such an entry with a word like "Collections" or "Transactions" or "Report of . . ." etc. I don't have the National Union Catalog in front of me (obviously - more than 700 folio volumes, more then 50,000 PAGES of entries beginning with the letter "S" alone), but the correct main entry of the above might be something like this: Massachusetts Historical Society (Boston). Collections. First series, 1792- . . . The above may not be precisely correct, but it gives the general idea. It is orderly, it is organized, and it will be consistent in serious libraries from Seattle to Miami. Here are some interesting correct main entries, showing the variety, and yes, the occasional insanity of the old but consistent system: SAMPLE MAIN ENTRIES - none of the following words represent parts of the titles of the books. In the actual cataloged entries, the titles would be placed immediately following these main entries. American Antiquarian Society. Brown, John. Bible. New Testament. Timothy. Cherokee. 1844. Worcester. [yes, all of this is required, and none of this is intended here as part of the title. It takes five massive volumes of the National Union Catalog to get through "Bible," and such a detailed system is necessary to guarnatee some semblance of order and logical arrangement] Bible. Old Testament. Apocryphal Books. Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs. English. 1843. Book of Mormon. Spanish. 1886. Kelly, Charles, and Maurice L. Howe. Hewett, Edgar Lee, Junius Henderson, and Wilfred William Robbins. [more than 3 authors reverts to title, I believe, or to the first individual given, followed by "comp., ed.," or whatever applies, if memory serves.] Deseret. University. [for the two Deseret primers] Haussonville, Gabriel Paul Othenin de Cleron, comte d'. Austria. Laws, statutes, etc. Margaret of Austria, Duchess of Parma. Gachard, Louis Prosper, ed. Justinus, Marcus Junianus [plain old Justin; many ancient and medieval names are more complex than the single-word names by which we know them in common parlance today] Lytton, Edward George, Lord. Equitable Society of London. [an early insurance company] France. Assemblee National Constituante, 1789-1791. Paris. Bibliotheque Nationale, Departement des Manuscrits. Smithsonian Institution. Bureau of American Ethnology, Bulletin 78. [again, this is main entry, not any part of the title] Again, if you are just having fun cataloging your own collection, none of this is really necessary. But, we old book & mss. people enjoy a certain amount of tradition. For those of us crazy enough to think this is fun, there is sufficient tradition and punctilious precision to excite us in the quest for correct main entries. Rick Grunder - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" - ---------------------------------------------------------- - - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books - - To unsubscribe, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with - - "unsubscribe lds-bookshelf" (without quotes) in the message body. - - For assistance, mail to "lds-bookshelf-owner@lists.xmission.com" ------------------------------ End of lds-bookshelf-digest V1 #943 ***********************************