From: owner-lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com (lds-bookshelf-digest)
To: lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: lds-bookshelf-digest V1 #951
Reply-To: lds-bookshelf
Sender: owner-lds-bookshelf-digest@lists.xmission.com
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Precedence: bulk


lds-bookshelf-digest     Monday, January 13 2003     Volume 01 : Number 951




----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2002 14:09:32 EST
From: RickBook@aol.com
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Snowed

Holiday greetings to everyone on the Bookshelf!  Enclosed is some extra snow 
for those of you who are less fortunate (i.e., who must spend their leisure 
time reading books instead of shovelling and plowing the white gift from 
heaven).

In Denial

<A HREF="http://www.rickgrunder.com/ChristmasMagicPoint02/cmp02.htm">
Christmas at Magic Point 2002</A> 
http://www.rickgrunder.com/ChristmasMagicPoint02/cmp02.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 21:30:41 -0800
From: "Keith Irwin" <irwinkw@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Snowed

"Gift from heaven"????? =20

At the moment a lot of people on I-80 are cussing the gift and wondering
where they can return it for credit. <g>

The pix look beautiful, Rick.  But I'm glad you push the shovel instead =
of
me.

Keith (who is donning his life jacket as we're struck by another of the =
El
Nino storms off the Pacific.)

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
RickBook@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 11:10 AM
To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Snowed

Holiday greetings to everyone on the Bookshelf!  Enclosed is some extra =
snow

for those of you who are less fortunate (i.e., who must spend their =
leisure=20
time reading books instead of shovelling and plowing the white gift from =

heaven).

In Denial

<A HREF=3D"http://www.rickgrunder.com/ChristmasMagicPoint02/cmp02.htm">
Christmas at Magic Point 2002</A>=20
http://www.rickgrunder.com/ChristmasMagicPoint02/cmp02.htm

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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 20:34:24 -0800
From: "Keith Irwin" <irwinkw@earthlink.net>
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] PLEASE READ - Important message from Hugh and Keith

Ardent bookshelfers may have noted the recent article in BYU studies =
titled
"Which are the Most Important Mormon Books."  The author, Arnold Garr,
surveyed 412 scholars who "teach, research, and write" in the field of
Mormonism and asked them to name the most important Mormon books in =
several
categories.  The largest number of respondents, obviously, came from =
Church
universities and CES personnel. =20

Though we don't fit the definition of his survey sample, I dare say that
Grand Noble Bookshelfers are at least as knowledgeable about this =
subject as
the august scholars.  So we asked Arnie Garr if he would allow us to
complete his survey for comparison purposes.  We offered to distribute =
the
survey and tabulate the results.  He graciously sent us a copy of the
survey.

Now comes the interesting part - Hugh and I have surmised that since we =
have
not heard from many of you at all, it is possible that you may be dead.  =
We
feel that to produce solid results, it will be good to hear from those =
who
have passed through the veil as well as those still among the living.  =
So
Keith is going to send the survey to each of you by e-mail.  Since we =
are
small in number, it is important that each of you take 15 minutes to
complete the survey and return it to Keith

In order to get good participation, Brother Garr enlisted the aid of =
John
Welch to "encourage" participation from his sample.  We don't have that =
kind
of clout.  So instead, if we don't get a response to the survey, we're =
going
assume that after you passed through the veil, you were found with a =
yellow
highlighter and were promptly consigned to hell.  And we certainly don't
want any hellish characters hanging around bookshelf, so non-respondents
will be excommunicated from the 'Shelf.

So......redeem yourselves, show us you're alive, contribute to science, =
and
return the survey promptly.  Results will be tabulated and posted to
LDS-Bookshelf.

Keith & Hugh
Bookshelf Custodians



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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:19:38 EST
From: BJRom@aol.com
Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] PLEASE READ - Important message from Hugh and Keith

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Keith,

I have 4 questions:

1. Under which category, if any, should we put original source materials, 
especially diaries and journals, but also compilations of documents?

2.  Are we supposed to "respond only in the categories [we] know best" as 
instructed by the survey?

3.  Was the BYU Studies survey totally open-ended or did they influence the 
results by providing a list from which to choose?

4.  It appears that the criteria requires that BOTH the author and 
subject-matter be Mormon.  Is this correct?  For example, what of a 
non-Mormon historian writing about Mormon history or a Mormon fiction author 
writing about non-Mormon subjects?

Thanks,

Brian

In a message dated 1/9/2003 9:35:12 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
irwinkw@earthlink.net writes:

> Ardent bookshelfers may have noted the recent article in BYU studies titled
> "Which are the Most Important Mormon Books."  The author, Arnold Garr,
> surveyed 412 scholars who "teach, research, and write" in the field of
> Mormonism and asked them to name the most important Mormon books in several
> categories.  The largest number of respondents, obviously, came from Church
> universities and CES personnel.  
> 


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Keith,<BR>
<BR>
I have 4 questions:<BR>
<BR>
1. Under which category, if any, should we put original source materials, especially diaries and journals, but also compilations of documents?<BR>
<BR>
2.&nbsp; Are we supposed to "respond only in the categories [we] know best" as instructed by the survey?<BR>
<BR>
3.&nbsp; Was the BYU Studies survey totally open-ended or did they influence the results by providing a list from which to choose?<BR>
<BR>
4.&nbsp; It appears that the criteria requires that BOTH the author and subject-matter be Mormon.&nbsp; Is this correct?&nbsp; For example, what of a non-Mormon historian writing about Mormon history or a Mormon fiction author writing about non-Mormon subjects?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
Brian<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/9/2003 9:35:12 PM Mountain Standard Time, irwinkw@earthlink.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Ardent bookshelfers may have noted the recent article in BYU studies titled<BR>
"Which are the Most Important Mormon Books."&nbsp; The author, Arnold Garr,<BR>
surveyed 412 scholars who "teach, research, and write" in the field of<BR>
Mormonism and asked them to name the most important Mormon books in several<BR>
categories.&nbsp; The largest number of respondents, obviously, came from Church<BR>
universities and CES personnel.&nbsp; <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
- --part1_69.3317a30a.2b4fbffa_boundary--

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- - LDS-Bookshelf, information and discussion of LDS books
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------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:51:10 -0800
From: "Keith Irwin" <irwinkw@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] PLEASE READ - Important message from Hugh and Keith

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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1.	There is no direction on this.  I included diaries and journals as
"biography."  But you choose.
2.	Bookshelfers are knowledgeable in all categories or else you
wouldn't be bookshelfers.  Respond to all.
3.	The survey I sent is an exact copy of the text.  Open ended.
4.	Yes.  Both author and subject matter must be LDS.  I found this
constraining.  For example, I'd consider Wallace Stegner and Mark Twain =
as
having written important Mormon fiction but they may not be considered =
for
this survey until their temple work is done.  If we are going to compare =
our
results with the BYU studies survey, we must remain consistent.  When =
this
is all over, perhaps we can set some new categories, for example, Books =
on
Mormon books.  =20

=20

Now, is "The Sex Life of Brigham Young" history, fiction, or
inspirational??? <grin>

=20

Keith

=20

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of =
BJRom@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:20 PM
To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] PLEASE READ - Important message from Hugh =
and
Keith

=20

Keith,

I have 4 questions:

1. Under which category, if any, should we put original source =
materials,
especially diaries and journals, but also compilations of documents?

2.  Are we supposed to "respond only in the categories [we] know best" =
as
instructed by the survey?

3.  Was the BYU Studies survey totally open-ended or did they influence =
the
results by providing a list from which to choose?

4.  It appears that the criteria requires that BOTH the author and
subject-matter be Mormon.  Is this correct?  For example, what of a
non-Mormon historian writing about Mormon history or a Mormon fiction =
author
writing about non-Mormon subjects?

Thanks,

Brian

In a message dated 1/9/2003 9:35:12 PM Mountain Standard Time,
irwinkw@earthlink.net writes:




Ardent bookshelfers may have noted the recent article in BYU studies =
titled
"Which are the Most Important Mormon Books."  The author, Arnold Garr,
surveyed 412 scholars who "teach, research, and write" in the field of
Mormonism and asked them to name the most important Mormon books in =
several
categories.  The largest number of respondents, obviously, came from =
Church
universities and CES personnel. =20

=20


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<div class=3DSection1>

<ol start=3D1 type=3D1>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:navy'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial
     FAMILY=3DSANSSERIF><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>There is
     no direction on this.&nbsp; I included diaries and journals as =
&#8220;biography.&#8221;&nbsp;
     But you choose.</span></font></li>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:navy'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
     style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Bookshelfers are =
knowledgeable
     in all categories or else you wouldn&#8217;t be bookshelfers.&nbsp;
     Respond to all.</span></font></li>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:navy'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
     style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The survey I sent is =
an exact
     copy of the text.&nbsp; Open ended.</span></font></li>
 <li class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'color:navy'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
face=3DArial><span
     style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Yes.&nbsp; Both author =
and
     subject matter must be LDS.&nbsp; I found this constraining.&nbsp; =
For
     example, I&#8217;d consider Wallace Stegner and Mark Twain as =
having
     written important Mormon fiction but they may not be considered for =
this
     survey until their temple work is done.&nbsp; If we are going to =
compare
     our results with the BYU studies survey, we must remain =
consistent.&nbsp;
     When this is all over, perhaps we can set some new categories, for
     example, Books on Mormon books.&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></font></li>
</ol>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Now, is &#8220;The Sex Life of =
Brigham
Young&#8221; history, fiction, or inspirational??? =
&lt;grin&gt;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Keith</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>BJRom@aol.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
09, 2003
10:20 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: =
[LDS-Bookshelf]
PLEASE READ - Important message from Hugh and Keith</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Keith,<br>
<br>
I have 4 questions:<br>
<br>
1. Under which category, if any, should we put original source =
materials,
especially diaries and journals, but also compilations of documents?<br>
<br>
2.&nbsp; Are we supposed to &quot;respond only in the categories [we] =
know
best&quot; as instructed by the survey?<br>
<br>
3.&nbsp; Was the BYU Studies survey totally open-ended or did they =
influence
the results by providing a list from which to choose?<br>
<br>
4.&nbsp; It appears that the criteria requires that BOTH the author and
subject-matter be Mormon.&nbsp; Is this correct?&nbsp; For example, what =
of a
non-Mormon historian writing about Mormon history or a Mormon fiction =
author
writing about non-Mormon subjects?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Brian<br>
<br>
In a message dated 1/9/2003 9:35:12 PM Mountain Standard Time,
irwinkw@earthlink.net writes:<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Ardent bookshelfers may =
have noted
the recent article in BYU studies titled<br>
&quot;Which are the Most Important Mormon Books.&quot;&nbsp; The author, =
Arnold
Garr,<br>
surveyed 412 scholars who &quot;teach, research, and write&quot; in the =
field
of<br>
Mormonism and asked them to name the most important Mormon books in =
several<br>
categories.&nbsp; The largest number of respondents, obviously, came =
from
Church<br>
universities and CES personnel.&nbsp; </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:
.5in'><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;</span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 15:51:53 -0800
From: "Keith Irwin" <irwinkw@earthlink.net>
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey

I've received 5 surveys so far.  Take a few minutes this weekend and =
return
your survey to me.   Since our group is small, we need a good response =
rate.

Keith



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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:32:03 EST
From: RickBook@aol.com
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey

In a message dated 1/10/03 1:51:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
irwinkw@earthlink.net writes:

<< Bookshelfers are knowledgeable in all categories or else you wouldn't be 
bookshelfers.  Respond to all. >>


Sorry, Keith, but I am not qualified to respond in the fiction category, 
having read almost no book-length Mormon fiction.  Maurine Whipple's THE 
GIANT JOSHUA should probably be high on the list, but other people will know 
better than I.

In the other categories, I feel pretty good about responding, although in 
principle I don't truly believe in such lists.  My choices are not, in every 
single case, books which I prefer or even admire.  I listed books which I 
feel have been (or will be) most central and "important" in the formation of 
Mormon cultures, and in determining how Mormon cultures are observed, over 
long periods of time.

My reason for emphasizing Dan Vogel's EARLY MORMON DOCUMENTS series is that 
it gives us, for the first time in our history, easy, organized and accurate 
access to nearly all the most original information extant about emergent 
Mormonism - in one place.  This published archive allows us to see what was 
first recorded, and when, as opposed to the blending and altering of later 
versions and anthologies.  I feel that its effect, over time, will be 
monumental.

Rick Grunder


Biography
1.  Lucy Mack Smith, Biographical Sketches of Joseph Smith, 1853
2.  Andrew Jenson, The Historical Record, Vols. 5-9, 1886-90
3.  James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, 1915

Doctrine
1.  Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1958
2.  Parley P. Pratt, A Voice of Warning, 1837
3.  Orson Pratt, A Series of Pamphlets, 1851

Fiction
1.
2.
3.

History
1.  Dan Vogel, ed., Early Mormon Documents, 1996-
2.  Joseph Smith, History of the Church, 1902-12, 1932
3.  Fawn M. Brodie, No Man Knows My History, 1945

Inspirational
1.  Oliver Cowdery, Letters . . . to W. W. Phelps . . . , 1844.
2.  Church.  Hymnal, 1835 and later eds.
3.  Smith, Eliza R. Snow, Poems, 1856, 1877

Which ONE book would you consider the most important overall?
1.  Dan Vogel, ed., Early Mormon Documents, 1996-


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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 14:43:37 -0700
From: "Malcolm Vickery" <malcolm@distinctivebooks.com>
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey

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Keith... I know I mailed this to you the other day,

But I'm posting this seperately to the list as I have thoroughly enjoyed
reading each of the surveys.

Hope the list will enjoy mine... or at least have a laugh!

Best! Malcolm - Distinctive Books

Biography:

1. History of Joseph Smith by His Mother. Lucy Mack Smith.

2. Autobiography of Parley P. Pratt.

3. Brigham Young, American Moses. Leonard Arrington.

Doctrine

1. The Journal of Discourses. 26 Vols. 1852-1886.

2. Messages of the First Presidency. 6 Vols. Dean R. Clark.

3. Mormon Doctrine. 1st Edition 1958. Bruce R. McConkie.

Fiction

1. Joseph Smith and the Devil. Parley P. Pratt. c1840.

2. Nightfall at Nauvoo. Samuel W. Taylor.

3. Saints. Orson Scott Card.

History

1. The Documentary History of the Church.

2. Early Mormon Documents. 4 Vols. Dan Vogel.

3. Mormon Hierarchy - Origins of Power. D. Michael Quinn.

Inspirational

1. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Edited by Joseph Fielding
Smith. 1938. 2. Voice of Warning. Parley P. Pratt. 3. 

Which ONE book would you consider the most important overall? 

1. The Journal of Discourses. 26 Vols. 1852-1886.

 

 

 


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<BODY>
<DIV>
<P><SPAN class=3D690424121-11012003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Keith... =
I know I=20
mailed this to you the other day,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=3D690424121-11012003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But I'm =
posting this=20
seperately to the list as I have thoroughly enjoyed reading each of the=20
surveys.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><SPAN class=3D690424121-11012003><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hope the =
list will=20
enjoy mine... or at least have a laugh!</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D690424121-11012003>Best! =
Malcolm -=20
Distinctive Books</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Biography:</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. History of Joseph Smith by His Mother. =
Lucy Mack=20
Smith.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2. Autobiography of Parley P. =
Pratt.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3. Brigham Young, American Moses. Leonard =

Arrington.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Doctrine</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. The Journal of Discourses. 26 Vols.=20
1852-1886.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2. Messages of the First Presidency. 6 =
Vols. Dean R.=20
Clark.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3. Mormon Doctrine. 1st Edition 1958. =
Bruce R.=20
McConkie.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Fiction</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. Joseph Smith and the Devil. Parley P. =
Pratt.=20
c1840.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2. Nightfall at Nauvoo. Samuel W. =
Taylor.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3. Saints. Orson Scott Card.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>History</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. The Documentary History of the =
Church.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2. Early Mormon Documents. 4 Vols. Dan=20
Vogel.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3. Mormon Hierarchy - Origins of Power. =
D. Michael=20
Quinn.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Inspirational</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. =
Edited by=20
Joseph Fielding Smith. 1938. 2. Voice of Warning. Parley P. Pratt. 3.=20
</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Which ONE book would you consider the =
most important=20
overall? </FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1. The Journal of Discourses. 26 Vols.=20
1852-1886.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 16:58:59 -0800
From: "Keith Irwin" <irwinkw@earthlink.net>
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] WHOA!

Gang - 

Let's not post your individual responses to the list yet.  We don't want to
taint the viewpoint of those who have yet to respond.  

Next week, after I post the summary, each of you that want can post your
responses and we can argue about them forever.

Keith



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Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:39:00 EST
From: BJRom@aol.com
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Re: God's Army in the Survey 

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Hugh,

You dodged the bullet on God's Army qualifying because it IS a book, although 
not until after it was a movie.  Actually, Dutcher hired Orson Scott Card's 
son, Geoffrey, to write the novelization. (His dad already had experience in 
this area novelizing The Abyss). I haven't read the book so I can't comment 
on how it compares to the film.
If you're interested in more about the book and reviews of it, see <A HREF="http://www.ldsfilm.com/GA/GodsArmyNovel.html">
http://www.ldsfilm.com/GA/GodsArmyNovel.html</A>

Cheers,

Brian Romriell

In a message dated 1/11/2003 5:54:02 PM Mountain Standard Time, 
hstocks@fuse.net writes:
> 
> Fiction
> 1.  Giant Joshua - Whipple
> 2.  The Backslider - Petersen
> 3.  God's Army - Dutcher  (yeah, I know it isn't a book, but.....)
> -- 
> Hugh Stocks             hstocks@fuse.net
>    
> 
> 
> 


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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Hugh,<BR>
<BR>
You dodged the bullet on God's Army qualifying because it IS a book, although not until after it was a movie.&nbsp; Actually, Dutcher hired Orson Scott Card's son, Geoffrey, to write the novelization. (His dad already had experience in this area novelizing The Abyss). I haven't read the book so I can't comment on how it compares to the film.<BR>
If you're interested in more about the book and reviews of it, see <A HREF="http://www.ldsfilm.com/GA/GodsArmyNovel.html">http://www.ldsfilm.com/GA/GodsArmyNovel.html</A><BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
<BR>
Brian Romriell<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/11/2003 5:54:02 PM Mountain Standard Time, hstocks@fuse.net writes:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
Fiction<BR>
1.&nbsp; Giant Joshua - Whipple<BR>
2.&nbsp; The Backslider - Petersen<BR>
3.&nbsp; God's Army - Dutcher&nbsp; (yeah, I know it isn't a book, but.....)<BR>
- -- <BR>
Hugh Stocks&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; hstocks@fuse.net<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2003 20:44:54 -0800
From: "Keith Irwin" <irwinkw@earthlink.net>
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Survey so far

Thus far I have received surveys from:

Ken Sanders
Joan Nay
Rick Grunder
Marshall Hamilton
Hugh Stocks
Malcolm Vickery
Roy Schmidt
Dennis "C" Davis
Brian Romriel
Doug Cahoon
Keith Irwin

Redeem yourselves!  Send in your survey!



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 14:49:58 -0800
From: "Keith Irwin" <irwinkw@earthlink.net>
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Genuine Fakes

Normally we avoid promotion of businesses on the list but I thought I could
post this without objection:

Last Year Bookshelfer Ken Sanders held a seminar on the Hoffman forgeries
that featured many of the people involved including George Throckmorton and
even Doralee Hoffman.  What I didn't know is that Ken videotaped the whole
thing and the four volume set is available from him for $60.  

Drop Ken a note offline if you are interested.  

Keith



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:54:32 -0700
From: "Hugh & Sandi McKell" <hjmckell@xmission.com>
Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Genuine Fakes

Mr. Sanders is not the type of person to trifle with, as the following
article will show... so post the promotion and do whatever else Mr. Sanders
asks...

He Ken I hope you were not hurt. What prompted such ferocity!

Hugh

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/jan/01082003/utah/18282.asp






- -----Original Message-----
To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] Genuine Fakes


Normally we avoid promotion of businesses on the list but I thought I could
post this without objection:

Last Year Bookshelfer Ken Sanders held a seminar on the Hoffman forgeries
that featured many of the people involved including George Throckmorton and
even Doralee Hoffman.  What I didn't know is that Ken videotaped the whole
thing and the four volume set is available from him for $60.

Drop Ken a note offline if you are interested.

Keith



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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 22:09:12 EST
From: RickBook@aol.com
Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Genuine F[l]akes

In a message dated 1/12/03 9:54:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
hjmckell@xmission.com writes:

<< He Ken I hope you were not hurt. What prompted such ferocity! >>


My guess would be that Ken's "ferocity" was prompted by the sheer idiotic 
hypocrisy of someone stealing a picture of Jesus.  I once sold a Whitmer 
Family seerstone to a gentleman in Utah who made me pledge never to tell his 
name, for fear that religious kooks might harm him or his family to get it.  
At least, that was how I understood his concerns.

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 21:16:04 -0700
From: "Malcolm Vickery" <malcolm@distinctivebooks.com>
Subject: RE: [LDS-Bookshelf] Genuine F[l]akes

It's a pretty crazy world.

Talking to one of the buyers for the BYU Bookstore, they told me that
the one thing that got stolen the most from the bookstore was the
quadruple combinations...

Pretty sad huh? I heard similar reasons were why they decided to put
locks on the lockers in the Temple changing rooms.

Good for Ken though! He showed me the cuts on his hand and the glass on
the road from the effort to get into the thieves car whilst it was
driving away.

I think he and Porter would have been good friends... Wouldn't you agree
Ken?

Malcolm - Distinctive Books

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
RickBook@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2003 8:09 PM
To: lds-bookshelf@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: [LDS-Bookshelf] Genuine F[l]akes


In a message dated 1/12/03 9:54:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
hjmckell@xmission.com writes:

<< He Ken I hope you were not hurt. What prompted such ferocity! >>


My guess would be that Ken's "ferocity" was prompted by the sheer
idiotic 
hypocrisy of someone stealing a picture of Jesus.  I once sold a Whitmer

Family seerstone to a gentleman in Utah who made me pledge never to tell
his 
name, for fear that religious kooks might harm him or his family to get
it.  
At least, that was how I understood his concerns.

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 10:18:27 -0700
From: Ken Sanders <ken@dreamgarden.com>
Subject: [LDS-Bookshelf] A Tale Of A Purloined Christ

Dear LDS Bookshelfers,

here's the original account I wrote of my Christ thief, an account I 
wrote to the ABAA trade list, of which I'm the security chair.  I 
originally wrote it as my police report.

I'll respond more fully when I have some time.  Rolly & Wells in the 
Salt Lake Tribune baseed their account on the following.  The error is 
George Ottinger's middle name is theirs, not mine.

Sincerely,

Ken Sanders

Dear Colleagues,

Despite the title of this missive, this is not a Christmas parable but
rather one of today's thief de jour.

At shortly after 2:00 PM this afternoon, a youngish (20's) male came
into my shop and tried to sell me a handful of books.  I didn't like his
looks or his books so I declined to buy them.  Rather than leaving, he
set his books down and wanted to look around.  That's when I made my
first mistake.  Rather than insisting he leave, I let him wander around,
although I kept a wary eye on him while he was in the stacks.

My daughter Melissa had to leave for a dental appointment at 2:30 and
within a minute or so of her leaving (and him hearing the door open and
close) he came to the front of the store (we were separated by a
counter) and said something like..."you got some really cool things in
here man" or some equally profound utterance.  I didn't respond but
rather watched him walk the final twenty feet to the front door, where
instead of leaving he paused.  He pulled a water color painting of
Christ(yes, Jesus Christ himself)  by a well known Utah artist, George
Marion Ottinger, off the wall and walked out the door not realizing I
had observed him stealing my painting and was in hot pursuit.

By the time I cleared the front door, he was already getting in a white
dodge sedan parked in front of the store with his (presumed girlfriend)
at the wheel, motor running ( I'm referring to the car's engine here).
    She was Caucausian, medium build with shoulder length brown hair.  He
was mid twenties tall (6' 1"" ish), short cropped brown hair, some acne
and quite skinny.  He was wearing blue jeans and a blackish sweater.
He slammed the door in my face as I grabbed for him and screamed at the
female to get the hell out of there.  I kicked the passenger door in
frustration and then pounded on the passenger door windshield until I
had beaten in the glass and ripped big chunks of it out of the way in an
attempt to grab hold of my thief.

By this time his female accomplice had shifted into gear and I was
knocked down  onto the grass strip next to the curb and my hands were
bleeding.  As I lay there amongst a  quantity of broken automotive
glass, I stared at the rear license plate of the car as it was speeding
away and raced back in my now empty and abandoned shop, where I wrote
the number down,  and called 911.

I gave them all the information emphasising they needed to be looking
for a white dodge sedan with no passenger window and gave them the
license plate number, which was 314 LYF Utah.  I managed to upset the
911 operator in the process, she accused me of being rude, I pointed out
to her rather than asking detailed questions that might wait until
later, I was more concerned that she get some cops on the street looking
for the white dodge sedan with the dented door and the smashed in window
with my blood on it.  She assured me they were on top of it. I
apologised for any rude behavior on my part.

I then locked the front door and gave chase to a few neighboring
bookshops where I thought they might be trying to sell my painting.  No
luck there.  Returning to my shop a detective was waiting for me and an
employee had returned from lunch and reopened the store.  The detective
then took my statement and assured me that had patrol cars out looking
for my thief.

Approximately 30 minutes later, the detective returned and asked me to
id the thief from his laptop computer in his squad car.  It was the
perp.  We had him. Or at least knew who he was.  As it turned out, not
surpisingly,  he had a rather lengthy arrest record and a outstanding
warrant for his arrest. The police knew who he was and had a healthy
interest in recapturing him.

At 3:00 P.M., the phone rang and I happened to answer it..."your
picture's at 47th South and Redwood Road.  I'm really sorry man that I
took something that you cared about so much."  What's at Redwood Road
and 47th South, I asked, "The Village Inn"  the perp replied.  Look,
pal, I sez,  i wrote down your license plate and the cops are already
out looking for you,, they know who you are and where you live and
you're going down for this.  I may have added an "asshole" as an
appendage to that last line.  The perp then hung up on me.  I star 69'ed
the call and wrote the number down.  I called police dispatch and left a
message as to what had occurred and that I was enroute to the Village
Inn to recover my painting.  I borrowed an employee's cell phone so the
detective could call me back while I was enroute if he so desired.

   The phone rang while I was driving down the freeway.  I pulled over
and stopped the truck prior to answering. I do not like cell phones and
am normally loathe to even use them.  It was Detective Miller returning
my call.  He agreed to  try and send an officer from West Valley Police
or the Salt Lake County Sheriff's dept. to the restaurant to meet me
there.  Redwood Road is in the southwestern portion of Salt Lake Valley.
   Formerly unincorporated towns, Granger and Hunter were formed into the
third largest city in Utah with the striking and imaginative name of
West Valley.  Back when they were lobbying for names for the as yet
unborn town I had lobbied for Grunter, or Greater Grunter, but my  plea
was never taken seriously.  I felt that that name would be honoring the
traditions of both the former towns of Granger and Hunter.

After waiting a spell, I was met by a deputy sheriff in the parking lot
of the Village Inn Pancake House.  After a brief conversation we entered
the restaurant and spoke to the host who procurred the manager for us.
They knew nothing about the painting but did recall a tall skinny guy
using the pay phone some time earlier.  The painting, now in a smashed
and broken frame was in a Walmart sack, left propped up against the
wall.  The sack had a receipt in it. The pay phone number in the foyer
matched the number I had written down.  I returned to the shop with my
broken painting and Wal-Mart receipt.

A crime lab photographer came by and shot the painting (with a camera,
not a gun).  Another detective just left here and took the Wal Mart
receipt.  I'm left with the painting, the sack, a lot of adrenalin, and
a slightly bloodied hand.  It only hurts when I type.
- -- 
Ken Sanders
Ken Sanders Rare Books, ABAA
268 South 200 East
Salt Lake City UT 84111
(801) 521-3819
Fax: (801) 521-2606
http://www.kensandersbooks.com
ken@dreamgarden.com





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