From: owner-orb-digest@lists.xmission.com (orb-digest) To: orb-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: orb-digest V2 #358 Reply-To: orb-digest Sender: owner-orb-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-orb-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes orb-digest Monday, September 4 2000 Volume 02 : Number 358 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 12:57:17 -0600 From: "Stratton, Jeff" Subject: hate to seem ignorant - new to the list - RE: (orb) The Orb-Pomme Fritz.mpg where can these mpg's be found? I upped The Orb-Pomme Fritz.mpg the the OAA 70MB check it out! # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 14:07:24 PDT From: "Seofon / ATOI" Subject: Re: (orb) Andy Hughes >So Andy wrote Cydonia. It seems like a pattern forming here. In past >messages on this list I have heard that Alex only contributes to the music >by adding samples and mixing after everything else is done. Maybe this is >why Jimi Cauty removed all his additions to Space and left Alex with many >demos that would become songs on ABTU. As the story goes Cauty only >considered Alex a DJ and nothing more. Does anyone know why Thrash left. >I'm sure this will initiate some stimulating conversation. I feel that I can comment on this, as my impression of the way that LX works with his cohorts is that it is very much similar to the way that Richard Sun and I work in ATOI. To step back a moment, the status of one person being writer, producer, and performer is very much a modern phenomenon. Back in the day, one guy wrote the lyrics, another guy wrote the music, another guy sang them, and yet another guy sat behind the mixing board. I think it's hard to argue that there is something wrong with this. Different people have different creative strengths, and it's best to keep that focus. Richard -- and likewise, I would dare to say, LX -- is the director. He is the guy with the ideas, including the idea of what the finished product is supposed to sound like. Often, those ideas are represented by a set of samples that are featured in the song. He keeps the high-level focus and quality control throughout the entire creative process. I -- and likewise Thrash, Andy, etc. -- are the producers. We (try to) physically transduce the sounds that are in the director's head, and put his ideas into an attractive sonic package. We deal with details like untangling cables, wrangling with the computer, etc. For Richard to try to work all the machines would be a pointless distraction. Rather, like LX, he generally throws me samples and sounds which I then process into the mix. But to say that he's "just a DJ" is missing the point. For me, it's really valuable to have someone holding the original vision of the song so that I don't lose sight of it with all the distractions inherent in recording. It's not that I can't make music perfectly well on my own, but there's no way that I could have made ATOI music on my own. Richard kept me from lowering the bar, and stretched me to develop new sounds and techniques. My ultimate point is that both perspectives on this issue are correct. Thrash, Andy, et al. are perfectly competent musicians, and probably created most of the sounds that you hear on an Orb record. But for them to say that they alone made an Orb record is overstating the point. Without LX, "The Orb" as a vital, creative entity simply would not exist. - -=Seofon Ambient Temple of Imagination http://www.a-toi.com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 23:03:09 +0200 From: derrien@club-internet.fr Subject: (orb) Orb related releases Robert Fripp released a new Frippertronic release but not on Discipline. It's called Fayman and Fripp : A temple in the clouds. http://www.tranceportation.com http://www.projekt.com I found a Youth remix at a really cheap price. The Chieftains featuring The Corrs : I know my love (Youth rhythm remix) 3.33 and I know my love (extended remix) 4.06 on a CD Single. And Paul Mc Cartney released : Liverpool Sound collage, a CD based on the remixes Super Furry animals did with Beatles sounds. It's a complete album with a strange track called Real gone dub made in manifest in the vortex of the eternal now (Youth) 16.37 Is it the Fireman part 3 or what ? Their first album together was crap, their second quite interesting. I'll let you know my feelings about that ASAP. http://www.liverpoolsoundcollage.com http://www.tate.org.uk/liverpool/displays/blake.mtm The whole album was engineered by Youth, Paul Hicks and Lord Doufus, and produced by Macca. JCFromParis On now : Groove Armada - If Everybody looked the same (Sth 3205 12" EDIT) "Don't you see? We're all in hell. I'm the only one who knows it." (Pam in The XFiles - Monday) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 17:51:44 -0400 From: "Meredith, Justin" Subject: RE: (orb) Andy Hughes Richard -- and likewise, I would dare to say, LX -- is the director. He is the guy with the ideas, including the idea of what the finished product is supposed to sound like.. >>Writing a song and making a movie are 2 different things. >>I would think envisioning how a track should sound or what it should be composed of would be hard considering the "director" isn't writing it. >>It's not like directing a movie were there is a script to follow and the idea is already set. But to say that he's "just a DJ" is missing the point. For me, it's really valuable to have someone holding the original vision of the song so that I don't lose sight of it with all the distractions inherent in recording. It's not that I can't make music perfectly well on my own, but there's no way that I could have made ATOI music on my own. Richard kept me from lowering the bar, and stretched me to develop new sounds and techniques. >>I think any one who is creative enough to write a phat riff is capable of holding their OWN vision on how their music should sound. It is a matter of self confidence and motivation. >>I am not saying the way you and Richard's approach to making music is wrong - I just think anyone capable of making music is capable of deciding how it's overall sound should end up as and should be able "direct" it's direction. Justin # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 17:29:01 -0500 From: Ryan Platte Subject: RE: (orb) Andy Hughes >>I think any one who is creative enough to write a phat > riff is capable of holding their OWN vision on how their music should sound. > It is a matter of self confidence and motivation. I am not saying the way you > and Richard's approach to > making music is wrong - I just think anyone capable of making music is > capable of deciding how it's overall sound should end up as and should be > able "direct" it's direction. i have an ambient band too, and frankly, it's a lot more fun from BOTH ends if someone does the tinkering and someone else is back from the equipment a few steps, listening and thinking about the music. i don't mind either role, but i really don't do well with both at once. also, seofon mentioned that the music that came out of the collaboration required both he and richard, and this is an important point: with multiple musicians you can have synergy. i agree, writers and performers and producers and directors CAN all be the same person, but that doesn't mean they have to be! i think some of the orb's strongest qualities come from the fact that LX doesn't get into all the wirehead stuff, and does *listen*. which is what it's all about in the first place, isn't it? ryan # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2000 18:55:05 EDT From: Ovation15@aol.com Subject: RE: (orb) Andy Hughes i think you are missing the point, so i will clarify. about you saying anyone capable of writing the music can produce it also, and i believe if you read the previous comment, the person it sounds like your trying to disagree with said the exact same thing. i dont think the question is whether or not the writer "can" do it all, i think its "does this come out better with a writer and producer (or director whatever) working together?". i dont think its self confidence, i just think its wanting to get with another artist and create something wonderful together that neither of you could have done alone. as someone else said their would be no orb without alex. also id like to say i believe alex has written more material then you guys make it sound. even though andy has been the main writer for awhile now. gemini >>I think any one who is creative enough to write a phat riff is capable of holding their OWN vision on how their music should sound. It is a matter of self confidence and motivation. >>I am not saying the way you and Richard's approach to making music is wrong - I just think anyone capable of making music is capable of deciding how it's overall sound should end up as and should be able "direct" it's direction. Justin # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 02:35:12 -0500 From: "oobe" Subject: RE: (orb) Andy Hughes Seofon: >----quote---- Richard -- and likewise, I would dare to say, LX -- is the director. He is the guy with the ideas, including the idea of what the finished product is supposed to sound like.. - ---end quote---< very well said my friend. very well. Justin: there's a difference between creating a groovy melody or a killer riff and being able to craft it in such a way that it compliments what's going on around it, how much of it should be there, how loud it should be, which sounds to use to make it reach its full potential, the tempo, etc.... these things work better sometimes, and certainly in the case of the Orb, when the "director" takes control of the ship to shape the project. And this isn't to say that Kris or Andy did everything up to the end, upon which LX just put a simple spit shine on it and credited himself. It's a much more involved, collaborative, and concentrated effort between LX and his other partners during the writing, recording, mixing, and mastering. It's just the way it is. In short, LX is the man. He wouldn't be where he is today with out Kris, Andy, Thomas, etc..., but he's still the man. If this wasn't the case, then any tard could open up Band-in-a-Box and SF Acid and be a "musician/producer/writer/executive producer, etc.". This isn't reality (thank God). oobe www.oobe.org # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 14:21:52 +0100 From: "Nick King" Subject: (orb) Alex Paterson Real Audio File at Beta Lounge From his show on 31/08/2000 at the Beta Lounge, San Francisco, Real Audio File at http://www.betalounge.com/homepage.html Superb! Nick King ;-) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 13:31:35 -0500 (CDT) From: James Hill Subject: Re: (orb) OT: Moby Selling Out > not to beat a dead horse, but I just saw a copy of Moby's latest cd, and > whoever claimed that his latest album was a sellout OBVIOUSLY hasn't read But then again there is Moby going on tour with Bush for MTV. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 16:08:22 EDT From: BluRoom@aol.com Subject: Re: (orb) Irresistible Force In a message dated 8/31/00 9:30:56 AM Central Daylight Time, vpfad1@scotus.sfcpa.edu writes: << Holy Hell! I just got "It's Tomorrow Already" by The Irresistible Force, and...WOW! Yesterday was a particularly stressful day, and when I came home, I reclined on my chair, put on the headphones, and fell asleep. Total and utter bliss, I can tell you. >> Thank you thank you thank you for writing about this disc. I became intrigued and went to check it out. It is truly awesome. The Orb list comes through once again, even if this isn't exactly about the Orb ;) Dan # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 14:37:42 +0100 From: "Smiley" Subject: (orb) ORBULLETIN: FINAL (?) cydonia tracklisting... # This is an Orb announcement from the ORBULLETINS mailing list. ORBULLETINS # help is available by emailing "info orbulletins" to majordomo@xmission.com. # We're now on the web at http://www.theorb.com just a little bit of quick news for y'all... afaik, the final tracklisting for 'cydonia' is as follows: 1. Once more 2. Promis 3. Ghostdancing 4. Turn it down 5. Egnable 6. Firestar 7. A mile long lump of lard 8. Centuries 9. Plum island 10. Hamlet of kings 11. 1,1,1 12. EDM 13. Thursdays keeper 14. Terminus so - no ralf, yungle, freely wheely or jam on yer honey (that appeared on v1/v2). the only other stuff i know, at present, is that: - - the new tracks are all new tracks, and not renamed older tracks. - - 'centuries' and 'plum island' are new VOCAL tracks - - 'hamlet of kings' is 7+ minutes long, so not the one from the Randall & Hopkirk CD i'm trying to find out WHO is singing on the new vocal tracks, and to see how many 'old' tracks have been reworked...i would expect that a fair bit of re-jigging has gone on over the last year... more info as and when i have any... cheers, - --- Smiley # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 13:20:20 EDT From: Ovation15@aol.com Subject: Re: (orb) ORBULLETIN: FINAL (?) cydonia tracklisting... :-) man im excited, whats the story on jam on yer honey? is it a good track, whats it like? In a message dated 9/3/00 11:57:43 AM Central Daylight Time, smileyweb@yahoo.co.uk writes: << # This is an Orb announcement from the ORBULLETINS mailing list. ORBULLETINS # help is available by emailing "info orbulletins" to majordomo@xmission.com. # We're now on the web at http://www.theorb.com just a little bit of quick news for y'all... afaik, the final tracklisting for 'cydonia' is as follows: 1. Once more 2. Promis 3. Ghostdancing 4. Turn it down 5. Egnable 6. Firestar 7. A mile long lump of lard 8. Centuries 9. Plum island 10. Hamlet of kings 11. 1,1,1 12. EDM 13. Thursdays keeper 14. Terminus so - no ralf, yungle, freely wheely or jam on yer honey (that appeared on v1/v2). the only other stuff i know, at present, is that: - the new tracks are all new tracks, and not renamed older tracks. - 'centuries' and 'plum island' are new VOCAL tracks - 'hamlet of kings' is 7+ minutes long, so not the one from the Randall & Hopkirk CD i'm trying to find out WHO is singing on the new vocal tracks, and to see how many 'old' tracks have been reworked...i would expect that a fair bit of re-jigging has gone on over the last year... more info as and when i have any... cheers, --- Smiley >> # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 10:57:55 -0700 From: Ed Subject: (orb) Alex@Knitting Factory Just a quick mention that Alex was in top form Friday night at the Knitting Factory. He really had the place dancing. A very different set compared to last years Vynyl appearance. Thanks to Sarah for getting us Orb fans together. It was great meeting Tim, Pip and one other I don't remember the name. Alex signed for all, got irie with us and we all took him to his motel after the gig. He mentioned he would be back in LA in November touring with Juno Reactor. Something to look forward too! Did anyone attend Indio last night? Edward # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2000 21:48:29 +0100 From: Chris Moore Subject: Re: (orb) ORBULLETIN: FINAL (?) cydonia tracklisting... >1. Once more >2. Promis >3. Ghostdancing >4. Turn it down >5. Egnable >6. Firestar >7. A mile long lump of lard >8. Centuries >9. Plum island >10. Hamlet of kings >11. 1,1,1 >12. EDM >13. Thursdays keeper >14. Terminus Some speculation then; with a tracklisting such as this, Cydonia "Final" could go (mainly) two ways: A) The good way, i.e. FFWD, where some of the tracks are small interconnecting pieces to keep the mix flowing (for cast-iron proof that this can really work, look no further than What Time Is Clock. Crazy, just like More Gills... and We're Pastie... wonderful stuff). B) The bad way, i.e. Orblivion, lots of smaller and less evolving tracks that will end up seeming disjointed and not going as far as they should. However despite the "serious re-jigging" mentioned, and going by Cydonia v1 (which I've listened to almost religiously) this most likely won't happen. Smiley, do you know which track was co-pro'd with Robert Fripp? Fingers crossed it's similar to FFWD... >so - no ralf, yungle, freely wheely or jam on yer honey (that appeared on >v1/v2). If/When possible Smiley, I'm sure we'd all love to know if these have gone for good, or if any will turn up as B-Sides. Although, considering that phat hard funky rhythm on Mile Long v1 sounds like Andy Hughes's input, I'm suprised that didn't go too (my point is this one's a serious re-mixing job if that _was_ his drumming). Yungle isn't a suprise either possibly for the same reasons. Also, you have to wonder what the v2 version of Jam On Yer Honey sounded like... >- 'centuries' and 'plum island' are new VOCAL tracks I'm sure there's going to be a few people shouting "oh for f*cks sake" at this, but as long as neither end up with an annoying Liverpudlian drawling all over them (*cough* S.A.L.T. *gack*), I'll be over the moon (by the sounds of it they are actual songs not spoken word pieces so that's something at least). Once More and Ghostdancing were HUGE highlights for me... Peace, Chis. chis:matrik | ambience & deep trance www.matrik.ndo.co.uk # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2000 21:19:41 -0400 From: "jmzd4" Subject: (orb) the final tracklisting for 'cydonia' thanx Smiley. Can't F@#!ing wait for it. Joshua # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 12:58:28 +0800 From: Kael Driscoll Subject: (orb) well said >I feel that I can comment on this, as my impression of the way that LX works >with his cohorts is that it is very much similar to the way that Richard Sun >and I work in ATOI. top reply, seofon... a good way of explaining how this kind of system works It seems that if LX is "just a DJ" as some suggest, then why don't Andy etc just work solo and make "orb" albums another another name.... the answer is "synergy"... the whole is more than the sum of the parts. cheers KL # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 07:52:47 -0400 From: "jmzd4" Subject: (orb) Jam on yer honey Is Jam On Yer Honey available on the OAA? I looked and looked, but to no avail. :( thanx in advance :) Joshua & Melissa # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 09:54:41 -0500 From: "Vince Frank" Subject: Re: (orb) Irresistible Force & scary stuff.... > In a message dated 8/31/00 9:30:56 AM Central Daylight Time, > vpfad1@scotus.sfcpa.edu writes: > > << Holy Hell! I just got "It's Tomorrow Already" by The Irresistible > Force, and...WOW! Yesterday was a particularly stressful > day, and when I came home, I reclined on my chair, put on the > headphones, and fell asleep. Total and utter bliss, I can tell > you. > >> > > Thank you thank you thank you for writing about this disc. I became intrigued > and went to check it out. It is truly awesome. The Orb list comes through > once again, even if this isn't exactly about the Orb ;) > Dan ===>Heh, you know, I think I've finally found a cd that my daughter *doesn't* like. I was playing the cd on Saturday morning, and the third track came on. That creepy guy's voice that is sampled sent her running from the room, screaming in terror! The guy is talking about about opium or something like that, but it *is* really kind of a strange voice. You know, it sorta sounds like Tommy Chong (as in Cheech & Chong), but slowed down a little bit...or someone from the early 80s cartoon, _Heavy Metal_ ("Oh, woooow! Good nyborg(?), maaaan!"). Funny at normal speed; downright ominous when slowed up.... # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 10:37:26 -0500 From: "Vince Frank" Subject: (orb) Sellout enigma.... 0100,0100,0100I'm somewhat puzzled by all this complaining about "selling out." If only a relative handful of people know about an artist (e.g., The Orb, Banco de Gaia, et al.), then we complain that they are not getting the exposure they deserve. On the other hand, if they DO get a ton of exposure (e.g., "LFC" on a Volkswagen commercial), then we complain that they've sold out. I personally used to complain all the time about things like this. Metallica was the best example here: they achieved world-wide success WITHOUT radio play or MTV exposure. When the song "One" (I think that was the name) became an MTV hit, I went nuts, bitching up a storm about how Metallica sold out. But I overreacted. Don't get me wrong--I still hate that song with a passion. And I STILL think Metallica's best albums were released prior to _And Justice For All_ (particularly _Master of Puppets_). BUT, saying "they sold out" is ludicrous. Metallica still rocks; they still pack a solid punch. Maybe their newer albums are better produced than the older albums, but so what? It just means that many more people are being exposed to something that's pretty good, rather than having to know only the mediocre or the *bottom-of-the-cesspool-abomination*! I said it before, and I'll say it again: there is nothing at all wrong or immoral with someone making a lot of money by marketing his or her music to the masses, as long as it is of high quality. Now, if you REALLY want something to complain about, just turn on any commercial radio station: the music SUCKS, and I mean so bad than I don't think the state of commercial *AM* radio was that bad, even during the 1970s...hell, I'd rather listen to Debbie Boone or Peter Frampton than commercial radio today--at least the music in the 1970s had a melody, for crying out loud.... My point (I think there *is* one here) is this: I'd rather listen to a so-called "commercial" release by Moby, or the Orb, or FSOL any day over the latest crap by whoever is on the radio right now (Brittney Spears, the Backstreet Boys, Chritina Aguilero (or whatever her name is), and so on)--I mean, I can't even tell today's mainstream "artists" apart from one another--they all sound alike! (At least no one would mistake Debbie Boone for Debbie Harry, or Peter Frampton for Peter Gabriel.) ;-) 'Nuff said. Vince (there--I didn't complain about the Orb--I defended them!) :-) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 11:59:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Ben in Space Subject: Re: (orb) Sellout enigma.... sorry vince, but I disagree with your last letter. I cannot agree with the fact that you use metallica as an example of a band that hasn't sold out. To me, selling out is when an artist/band is more intent on how many records they sell rather than what _kind_ of records they sell. I don't know if this is Lars' solo project, but seeing a quad platinum artist sitting in front of the same old rich white men that would have banned his music 10 years ago _BITCHING_ about how some poor kid managed to get his hands on a song without paying that already has 10000 times more airplay than ANYTHING we'd listen to... _that_ is selling out. > like this. Metallica was the best example here: they > achieved world-wide success WITHOUT radio play or > _Master of Puppets_). BUT, saying "they sold out" is ludicrous (sorry for truncation of sentence) Metallica didn't reach worldwide success until the release of Justice... they had a huge following out in LA and in the US, but they weren't playing shows in prague and red square and japan like they did after the ONE video... granted i don't consider world touring to be selling out. The sellout came when load hit the racks at an MSRP of 18.99. The sellout came when the concert tix cost $45 for lawn. The sellout came when they started to rehash old songs just to fill their albums. And (most importantly) it came when the market seemed to get flooded with Metallica Toothbrushes, Rain-Ponchos, Candy, etc... when the Brand Name appeared on every last product you could think of, for a band that already has global recognition. Wow.... /rant >Maybe their newer albums are better produced >than the older albums, but so what? production != (does not equal) selling out. many albums from bands that will never ever see gold records I consider to be some of the finest bits of production work EVER. Andrea Parker? Mindless Self Indulgence? Flaming Lips? I'd take their engineering skills over bob rock or whatever cut-and-dry asshole metallica has turning the knobs of their $200000 console. Of course their production value has raised. If I had their money, mine would too... but what they have in production seems to have been siphoned from their creative talent. So they can play power chords. wow. So kirk hammet has arthritis and can barely solo anymore but they can simulate it with protools... (actually that's kinda cool)... but their music is dying slowly. The production on say, call of Cthulu is much more creative than "hero of the day"... load and reload were just fixed-eq "metal country"... not an attempt to break new ground like previous releases. >hell, I'd rather listen to Debbie Boone or Peter Frampton than commercial >radio today--at least the music in the 1970s had a melody, for crying out >loud.... No arguement here... I'd rather listen to comm radio of 1986 than anything else anyway (but i'm a freak) >My point (I think there *is* one here) is this: I'd rather listen to >a so-called "commercial" release by Moby, or the Orb, or >FSOL any day over the latest crap by whoever is on the >radio right now (Brittney Spears, the Backstreet Boys, >Chritina Aguilero (or whatever her name is), and so on)--I mean, Amen to this, although I consider it unfair to group christina aguilera in with the rest of them. I don't dig her style, but she has _much_ more natural talent than britney, whose producers use pitch synthesis to "perfect" her voice. At least C.A. writes her own material and works on engineering (which is occasionally creative). I'm not gonna buy her records, but I do wish her well. Also, what is a "commercial release" ? Simply because moby's play has been used for what seems like every movie preview for the past 2 years doesn't mean he made it for that purpose. It just ended up being a dang good album. On the other hand, the commercial success and integration of metallica's S&M was probably written out before the tracks were even cut. They are more of a moneymaking venture than musicians now, and it's time to let them go... >I can't even tell today's mainstream "artists" >apart from one another--they all sound alike! (At least no one would >mistake Debbie Boone for Debbie Harry, or Peter Frampton for >Peter Gabriel.) ;-) 'tis because nobody's doing their own instrumentals/arrng. anymore. I think Britney and N*sync have the same engineers... or the same software... but could you tell debbie hairy from Blondie? HA! :P wow. Sorry for the mass lengthyness... I just couldn't keep quiet here, and I really don't care about the whole LX/andy thing... other than i hope the orb's new sound will rock me as much as previously. Ben in Space # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 16:00:02 GMT From: "E O" Subject: Re: (orb) Jam on yer honey Also, Lazlo lists a piece called Bicycles & Tricycles... Does anybody have that? - -Eric - ----Original Message Follows---- Is Jam On Yer Honey available on the OAA? I looked and looked, but to no avail. :( thanx in advance :) Joshua & Melissa _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 13:31:38 -0500 From: "Vince Frank" Subject: Re: (orb) Sellout enigma.... > example of a band that hasn't sold out. To me, selling out is when an > artist/band is more intent on how many records they sell rather than what > _kind_ of records they sell. ===>When you put it that way, I guess you're absolutely right. I still don't *completely* knock them for this, 'cause I'd be the first person in line to do the same, should the opportunity ever present itself. Actually, if I were making the kind of money Metallica makes, I would do TWO things: 1.) make whatever my coporate "sponsor" wants, and 2.) take a portion of the money I made with that, and use it to finance my OWN non-commercial project. In other words, that way I'm making a buck, AND making (arguably) good music somewhere (not necessarily on the "commercial" release). I don't know if this is Lars' solo project, > but seeing a quad platinum artist sitting in front of the same old rich > white men that would have banned his music 10 years ago _BITCHING_ about > how some poor kid managed to get his hands on a song without paying that > already has 10000 times more airplay than ANYTHING we'd listen to... > _that_ is selling out. ===>You know, I'm kinda torn on this issue. I hate to say it, but I think the record companies are right on this issue: it *IS* pirating. But it *IS* also ridiculous for Lars to testify before Congress about this--doesn't he have anything better to do? I don't think I've ever paid a dime for a Metallica album myself (thanks to--ahem!--blank audio cassettes!), yet they've still managed to make half a billion dollars anyway. This gives greed a bad name (and greed isn't *always* a bad thing!). Then you've got bands like the Dead Kennedys and their ilk who ENCOURAGE piracy.... ;-) > Metallica didn't reach worldwide success until the release of > Justice... they had a huge following out in LA and in the US, but they > weren't playing shows in prague and red square and japan like they did ===>Perhaps I was being ethnocentric there.... I was thinking in terms of record sales.... They were doing pretty well for themselves long before And Justice For All came out. But then, to side with you, Iron Maiden has *never* had a hit in the United States (don't know about Europe), and I've certainly never seen an Iron Maiden video on MTV (then again, oddly, I saw the world premier of "Wicker Man" on VH-1 a couple months ago). But they ended up becoming the most successful independent band of all time, WITHOUT any radio play...so successful that they eclipsed the success of MANY commercial bands.... > many albums from bands that will never ever see gold records I consider to > be some of the finest bits of production work EVER. Andrea Parker? > Mindless Self Indulgence? Flaming Lips? ===>Or even Martin Hannett's production on Joy Division's albums.... _Closer_ still sounds powerful to this day.... > No arguement here... I'd rather listen to comm radio of 1986 than anything > else anyway (but i'm a freak) ===>You also have a "cut-off year," I see--mine is 1984 and before. ;-) --about the time that MTV started to play *only* commercially successful artists. Does anyone (besides me) remember when they 1.) actually played music videos 24 hours a day, and 2.) played MOSTLY music from otherwise unknown acts? I'm getting old. :-( Vince # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 17:23:38 -0700 From: rachel Subject: (orb) put your money where your mouth is ok, so everyone wanted to send money to The Orb for their bootleg MP3 of Cydonia, right? well, now you can: http://www.fairtunes.com/artistinfo.jsp?caller=url&artist=71960 think of it as a tip jar for musicains (Bono has made $80 so far) =) rachel # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ End of orb-digest V2 #358 *************************