From: owner-orb-digest@lists.xmission.com (orb-digest) To: orb-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: orb-digest V2 #471 Reply-To: orb-digest Sender: owner-orb-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-orb-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk X-No-Archive: yes orb-digest Friday, June 1 2001 Volume 02 : Number 471 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 21:10:14 -0500 From: oobe Subject: Re: (orb) Could be a helluva lot worse : : Flames!!! FLAMES!!!! Point #1: I have no time for a list who seems to desire nothing but starting flame wars. Point # 2: I said TimC and Vince specifically were guilty of using stereotypes to conviently lump everyone into a common pile of easily targeted "enemies". I guess I'll add you to there ilk, since you seem to be even worse at it than they are: :You guys are the : ones who lump everyone together. Who is "you guys". nice generalization, fuck face. :Who are you to tell me what's good for me? I'm not trying to tell you what's good for YOU. I'm trying to tell you what's good for OTHERS. I'm trying to keep assholes like yourself from fucking up the world for the benefit of myself and my children. People who live with abandon, wantonly polluting, wasting, without a care or second thought are the people that are the problem. :I will : decide for myself. Based on what, fuck face? :This isn't a moral principle at stake here here. This : is the fundamental morality that man lives by that is threatened. First, look up the word "morality" in your dictionary. Second, save your "they're coming for my guns and my freedoms!!" bullshit. Try living in Cuba or China and then let's talk about the limits on your freedoms, you disgusting piece of shit. : You can tell me my thoughts are cynical, that I am simple-minded and : selfish. I'll tell you: You are DAMNED right I'm selfish. Wow, such virtuous attributes. You must be proud. By the way, how's Rush Limbaugh doing these days? Tell him I said hello. : I'm only cynical : because you've all been brainwashed to think I'm wrong. Once again, "you all"... Another nice sweeping generalization based on stereotypes and paranoid delusions. God, you are a simple, stupid little man. :Find me cold, hard, : scientific evidence to prove me wrong, and maybe -- MAYBE -- I'll believe : you then. Scientific evidence about what you asshole?!! FUCK! YOU FUCKING PEOPLE ACT LIKE IT'S MY REPONSIBILITY TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF THE SHIT YOU ARE FUCKING UP! Geezus! Why don't you get off your bong-smoking, cheeto-munching, lazy candy ass and look up your own research, asshead? : A picture is not an argument, and an argument is NO good unless you have : facts to back it up. nice statement that came completely out of either left field or your ass... either way it has nothing to do with anything other than you trying (unsuccessfully) to make a witty metaphor. what a ridiculous turd burglar you are. :Objectivity, people :) Brian, you are a submental midget. Just shut the fuck up unless you have any idea what the fuck you are talking about. : That, incidentally, is one NARROW-MINDED : response :) Nothing but a little : hypocrisy to make the day interesting!! :) First, please try to point out what is a) narrow minded about it, and b) what remarks did I make that are hypocritical. Fucking dumbass. - -=oobe-= : > TimC: : > : > I envy the simplicity of your thought process. It must be so much easier to : > go through life when you look at a huge portion of the population who share : > a common moral principle and lump them all into a group of nihlistic : > hypocrits using sophmoric stereotypes. Yeah, I wish I wasn't plagued with : > accepting reality instead of someone else's cynical mantra like you and : > Vince have. Fucking pathetic. : > : > -=oobe # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 2001 19:15:00 -0700 From: emma-peel@canada.com Subject: (orb) Just got a digest/ LX flyer Tee Hee. Of course, 5 minutes after I sent my last email I got a digest. I do have a flyer for the show tonight that most definitely says "In a very special rare performance...Dr. Alex Paterson of the Orb" (in orblivion font). On the back it says "As the driving force behind the Orb, quite possibly electronic music's most legendary band, the Dr. has decided to join us on our anniversary for a very special DJ set. He promises to deliver a 2.5 hour set of driving, funky, and deep progressive. The Dr. has not been in the north-west for years and will not be around for a long time after; be ready as well for an environment and visuals created completely by the Dr. himself. This is a once in a lifetime experience not to be missed for any reason." I'll scan it for evidence if anyone wants..... I actually never read this until now. Visuals?!?! And he will be back here in August for the Area One thing (unless that's a lie too). Oh well- $15 to go see a conman. A friend who works at a local shop that was selling tickets says the promoters are pretty trustworthy- maybe they were fooled too. It's for the one- year anniversary of a somewhat decent night that has seen Sven Vath and some other s (I'm not too into the 4/4 nights in this town, but I know there have been some other bigger names) There is someone flying here from Edmonton for the show- a couple of hundred dollars I'm sure. At least it's going to be sunny this weekend. I'll give a recap of tonight's events later. Oh yeah- and since I am digest I would appreciate any responses to go to this address so I can see them right away. Poop. __________________________________________________________ Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 23:09:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Baker Subject: (orb) Fake LX What the hell... that really, really, really sucks. _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 03:47:19 From: "Spear man" Subject: (orb) greenhouse crappage >Climate change President Bush recently announced that the United States Government will not honour its commitments under the 1997 Kyoto Protocol to reduce greenhouse gases.< "You can stick your moral standards...it's all a dirty lie."--Bon Scott And Agenda 21 while you're at it. - --spearman waving flag that BUSH decided to vote for autonomy rather than the NWO (for once) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 04:01:53 From: "Spear man" Subject: (orb) more greenhouse crappage >a huge portion of the population... [snerk] for a minute there I thought you had some sorta consensus - --spearman _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 04:05:54 From: "Spear man" Subject: (orb) crappage/what GOD said to the environmentalists what GOD said to the environmentalists: "when you've finished-up eliminating all the non-native plants, you can go to work on the non-native peoples." - --spearman (fed up with enviro/nonenviro crappage) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 00:09:54 -0400 (EDT) From: Jeff Subject: Re: (orb) crappage/what GOD said to the environmentalists Who are you, Spear Man, and why are you spamming the Orb list? - ---- Jeff A Klein Bottle has zero volume, so we suggest that you do not use it as a personal flotation device. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 00:07:17 -0500 From: Martin Wallace Subject: Re: (orb) Could be a helluva lot worse ::Example - the environmentalists protesting the trade summit ::in Seattle a ::couple years ago - protesting capitalism and technology ::explicitly, yet ::using cell phones, laptops, and the Internet to organize their ::protests.... Actually, this is not at all what the environmentalists were protesting (well, perhaps there were a few idiots doing it). It was not a protest against capitlaism or technology. It was a protest against the WTO undermining regional environmental protection policies. Member nations of the WTO have to comply to certain trade policies that promote "fair trade" between third world and first world member countries. Many of these policies superceed the rights of local governments to make their own decisions about regional environmental and trade policies, rendering them powerless to do anything to prorect themselves from the onslaught of an emerging global consumerist economy. Please, I don't mean to sound like an ass or undermine anyone's opinion but if you have an opinion at least let it be an informed one. more info availible at www.gatt.org for anyone who is really interested. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 00:16:50 -0500 From: Martin Wallace Subject: (orb) The funniest thing to happen on the list this is so funny that I had to repost it: : : Flames!!! FLAMES!!!! Point #1: I have no time for a list who seems to desire nothing but starting flame wars. Point # 2: I said TimC and Vince specifically were guilty of using stereotypes to conviently lump everyone into a common pile of easily targeted "enemies". I guess I'll add you to there ilk, since you seem to be even worse at it than they are: :You guys are the : ones who lump everyone together. Who is "you guys". nice generalization, fuck face. :Who are you to tell me what's good for me? I'm not trying to tell you what's good for YOU. I'm trying to tell you what's good for OTHERS. I'm trying to keep assholes like yourself from fucking up the world for the benefit of myself and my children. People who live with abandon, wantonly polluting, wasting, without a care or second thought are the people that are the problem. :I will : decide for myself. Based on what, fuck face? :This isn't a moral principle at stake here here. This : is the fundamental morality that man lives by that is threatened. First, look up the word "morality" in your dictionary. Second, save your "they're coming for my guns and my freedoms!!" bullshit. Try living in Cuba or China and then let's talk about the limits on your freedoms, you disgusting piece of shit. : You can tell me my thoughts are cynical, that I am simple-minded and : selfish. I'll tell you: You are DAMNED right I'm selfish. Wow, such virtuous attributes. You must be proud. By the way, how's Rush Limbaugh doing these days? Tell him I said hello. : I'm only cynical : because you've all been brainwashed to think I'm wrong. Once again, "you all"... Another nice sweeping generalization based on stereotypes and paranoid delusions. God, you are a simple, stupid little man. :Find me cold, hard, : scientific evidence to prove me wrong, and maybe -- MAYBE -- I'll believe : you then. Scientific evidence about what you asshole?!! FUCK! YOU FUCKING PEOPLE ACT LIKE IT'S MY REPONSIBILITY TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF THE SHIT YOU ARE FUCKING UP! Geezus! Why don't you get off your bong-smoking, cheeto-munching, lazy candy ass and look up your own research, asshead? : A picture is not an argument, and an argument is NO good unless you have : facts to back it up. nice statement that came completely out of either left field or your ass... either way it has nothing to do with anything other than you trying (unsuccessfully) to make a witty metaphor. what a ridiculous turd burglar you are. :Objectivity, people :) Brian, you are a submental midget. Just shut the fuck up unless you have any idea what the fuck you are talking about. : That, incidentally, is one NARROW-MINDED : response :) Nothing but a little : hypocrisy to make the day interesting!! :) First, please try to point out what is a) narrow minded about it, and b) what remarks did I make that are hypocritical. Fucking dumbass. - -=oobe-= : > TimC: : > : > I envy the simplicity of your thought process. It must be so much easier to : > go through life when you look at a huge portion of the population who share : > a common moral principle and lump them all into a group of nihlistic : > hypocrits using sophmoric stereotypes. Yeah, I wish I wasn't plagued with : > accepting reality instead of someone else's cynical mantra like you and : > Vince have. Fucking pathetic. : > : > -=oobe # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 13:19:14 +0800 From: Kael Driscoll Subject: (orb) why hast thou forsaken me? this is a test, as all my messages are just disappearing.... # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 00:26:22 -0700 (PDT) From: noraa selim Subject: (orb) Uploading LX interviews to OAA I'm currently uploading 3 interviews: WMNS interviews Alex and The Sleeper Awakes I & II. I made them from crappy RM files but I think it's better then nothing. Some of um are kinda intrestin. O'pe you like them! - -peace out _____________________________________________________________ Get email for your site ---> http://www.everyone.net # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Jun 2001 00:32:34 -0700 From: emma-peel@canada.com Subject: (orb) LX In Canada Just got back. I went to the show to see the fakie and humiliate him. When I arrived there were signs all over saying there was a confirmed fraud. They offered full refunds or 5 bucks back if you went in to see Paul Walker (or something) who they had just "flown in". There was also a faxed release from Orb management at the refund desk- one of which I snagged. It basically explains the fiasco and how LX (the real one) found out about it while eating dinner in London. Too lazy right now to transcribe it- I'll scan it if anyone has a pressing need to see it. Goodnight from sad, sad, sad , dissapointed & sad west coast Canada (Orbless since 1995) __________________________________________________________ Get your FREE personalized e-mail at http://www.canada.com # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2001 15:43:05 +0800 From: Kael Driscoll Subject: Re: (orb) LX In Canada absolutley amazing... thanks for the story... i imagine the faker was pretty freaked out when he realised the game was up... i wish you had got to personally confront him, that would have been great! I have often wondered about the faking of dj's (who are often pretty faceless) esp. in a small place like australia.... now I know that it CAN HAPPEN! p.s. does anyone else have messgaes just never making it to the list? I sent one that had no quotes and no swearing and it didn't make it. my test did. and then oobe's post full of swearing and quotes made it... whats going on? # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:41:25 +0100 From: Matt.Skinner@skanska.co.uk Subject: RE: (orb) I love Serge Gainsbourg (orb remix) I think JC posted about this a few months ago. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:30:13 +0100 From: Matt.Skinner@skanska.co.uk Subject: RE: (orb) Could be a helluva lot worse >>protesting capitalism yeah, weren't they the same people that stole the tills from Micky D's? Was I alone in seeing the Irony in that? Bit like the Crusties who protested the Newbury Bypass that got there by Car/Bus using the Bypass...... # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 02:45:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Ketley Subject: (orb) (non-orb) NWO crappage Pity this but... The Kyoto Agreement should've been sponsored by Microsoft as the moment it came into existance it was out of date. George W. Bush will do for Alaska what the crew of the Exxon Valdez could only dream about. This list amazes me. Somebody in the States actually backing-up George W. A bit like someone over here actually liking Mrs. Th****** or visiting Prague and eating at McD****** in Wensclas Square. Paul. np Aphex Twin Windowlicker "Hey Bill, d'ya think tha aliens will save us?", Bill Hicks (RIP). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 02:52:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Ketley Subject: (orb) Red Worm Thanks Thanks to everyone who told me where to find the "Red Worm" track. Cheers, Paul. nr "The Dictionary of the Khazars" by Milorad Pavic (female edition). __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:09:31 +0100 (BST) From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Smiley?= Subject: RE: (orb) I love Serge Gainsbourg (orb remix) > I'm sure JC would jump in here if he wasn't getting > married right now! ;) well, that was last weekend, but he has gone very quiet! i'm going over for a garden party / reception this weekend, so i hope he's there when i turn up! ;-) > There is a compilation called "I Love Serge" which > contains *remixes* of Serge Gainsbourg (I have no > idea who that is) songs. It just came out a few > months ago, and its a really fabulous album. and, while others are on a bit of an argumentative tip, can i just ask - and this isn't aimed at the original poster, or any of the older boys and girls here, by the way - but: 1. why do some people NEVER seem to pay attention to what people post to the list anymore? 2. why do some people seem to NEVER actually buy any commonly-available new remixes and stuff? maybe i'm just becoming an old fart, and things have moved on "since my day"...??? anyway, argue amongst yourselves - i'm off to catch the Eurostar. l8rs... ;-) - --- Smiley ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:03:17 +0100 From: "Dark Eyed Kid" Subject: (orb) BadfeckinOrb.feckincom Right! What's goin on here? Is it now up and running? Has anyone been able to order anything? If so please tell me how it's done. It really is a bag of shite. Can u tell i'm angry? G # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 05:22:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Ketley Subject: (orb) (non-orb) Could be a helluva lot worse To Vince (et al), Since when have the NWO been socialist? Then again - knowing the US - your dictionaries have had the wrong definition since the McCarthy era. George W. Bush's first address as president... "My fellow Americans........ ......and people of Florida". Could be a helluva lot worse... The Conservatives (Xenophobic Party) could win a British General Election. Paul. nr "The Dictionary of the Khazars" by Milorad Pavic and "Slovencina Pre Vas" by Ada Bohmerova (Chapter 3 - Stretnutia a rozhovory) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:12:15 -0500 From: "Vince Frank" Subject: (orb) Aw, c'mon folks! > Point # 2: > I said TimC and Vince specifically were guilty of using stereotypes to > conviently lump everyone into a common pile of easily targeted "enemies". I > guess I'll add you to there ilk, since you seem to be even worse at it than > they are: ===>Ok, perhaps I was wrong to lump everyone together. However, I used to be involved with environmental groups while in college, and eventually came to the realization that the majority of their arguments (to use a grand sweeping generalization) were based not on logic, but rather, emotion, and half-understood (and usually skewed) scientific evidence. > I'm not trying to tell you what's good for YOU. I'm trying to tell you > what's good for OTHERS. I'm trying to keep assholes like yourself from > fucking up the world for the benefit of myself and my children. People who > live with abandon, wantonly polluting, wasting, without a care or second > thought are the people that are the problem. ===>I'm pretty sure that the earth is not going to fall to pieces. Just let me ask this: is the earth cleaner today than it was in the 1970s? > First, look up the word "morality" in your dictionary. Second, save your > "they're coming for my guns and my freedoms!!" bullshit. Try living in Cuba > or China and then let's talk about the limits on your freedoms, you > disgusting piece of shit. ===>Well, what Brian and I are opposed to is becoming like Cuba and China. The U.S. finally voted out of office an administration which was "buddy-buddy" with China--even willing to sell our nuclear secrets and missiles to them. China is a country which will massacre its own people when they want change. (Granted, the U.S. Justice Department was really no better under the Clinton administration.) > : You can tell me my thoughts are cynical, that I am simple-minded and > : selfish. I'll tell you: You are DAMNED right I'm selfish. > > Wow, such virtuous attributes. You must be proud. By the way, how's Rush > Limbaugh doing these days? Tell him I said hello. ===>Only when people are permitted to be selfish does true progress occur. This is why capitalism is superior to socialism. This is why the United States and other capitalist nations are so technologically advanced, and the standard of living for their citizens is so high, and countries like China, Cuba, and the former Soviet Union are still in the fuckin' dark ages. Do you think China and Cuba could have invented the internet, the automobile, the television, the telephone, etc.? Money is a MUCH better motivator than a gun in one's back. When I work on behalf of *myself* (which is, by definition, selfish), I produce much more than I would if I were working on behalf of *the people*. If money is the reward, then I will work hard. If there *is* no incentive, then I'll only do what I am forced to, and no more--I then become unproductive. Again, I need only point to the communist nations to prove that. > Scientific evidence about what you asshole?!! FUCK! YOU FUCKING PEOPLE ACT > LIKE IT'S MY REPONSIBILITY TO MAKE YOU AWARE OF THE SHIT YOU ARE FUCKING UP! > Geezus! Why don't you get off your bong-smoking, cheeto-munching, lazy candy > ass and look up your own research, asshead? ===>Wow! Calm down! I am PROUD to say that I have never done any illicit drugs, nor do I ever intend to. (And what the hell's wrong with Cheetos?) ;-) > :Objectivity, people :) > > Brian, you are a submental midget. Just shut the fuck up unless you have > any idea what the fuck you are talking about. ===>Actually, Brian, I believe, *does* know what he's talking about. You just happen to disagree with what he is saying, which is fine. Vince # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 09:25:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Tim Baker Subject: (orb) The Orb? Hey, remember when this list used to be about the Orb and not debating about political systems? _______________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 10:56:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Benjamin L. May" Subject: Re: (orb) greenhouse crappage > --spearman waving flag that BUSH decided to vote for autonomy rather than > the NWO (for once) What is this new world order I've heard people speaking of? And is being autonomous a virtue in its own right? I don't see how... # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:00:10 -0400 (EDT) From: "Benjamin L. May" Subject: Re: (orb) (non-orb) NWO crappage > This list amazes me. Somebody in the States actually > backing-up George W. A bit like someone over here Yeah well something like 47% percent of the population actually voted for the man. You know that at least SOME of them must actually geniunely like the man... :) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:44:21 -0400 (EDT) From: "Benjamin L. May" Subject: Re: (orb) Aw, c'mon folks! I just _had_ to jump into this one. Lets just say I took the bait. :) > ===>Ok, perhaps I was wrong to lump everyone together. > However, I used to be involved with environmental groups while > in college, and eventually came to the realization that the > majority of their arguments (to use a grand sweeping > generalization) were based not on logic, but rather, emotion, > and half-understood (and usually skewed) scientific evidence. This isn't a problem with environmentalists only my friend. This is more or less a disease of the human race (not to make sweeping generalizations or anything :P)... Human beings are ALWAYS more willing to take action and argue and whatnot based on how they feel about the facts rather than the facts themselves; if you have no emotions about a topic, you pretty much don't care about it. :) The problem lies in the fact that people often have strong emotions based on flawed views of the facts. Or they just allow themselves to be ruled by their emotions. The other problem is that scientific evidence is usually not conclusive. You try and study a system as complex as our environment and end up saying something like 'This stuff that we do has this direct result on the earth.' But the problem is its not always that simple. I mean, how many times have you seen a study come out that shows the exact oposite of what another study in the same area showed? The fact is that the scientific process consists of experiments, and experiments are a limited view of a larger system. Sometime they're good, and sometimes they just plain suck, eg: The 'You are 50 times more likely to do cocaine if you've smoked marijuana first.' study. > ===>I'm pretty sure that the earth is not going to fall to pieces. Good point! I love trying to explain this to people. HUMAN BEINGS DO NOT (currently) HAVE THE ABILITY TO DESTROY ALL LIFE ON THE PLANET. The only way we could do this is by either ruining the earth's orbit or blocking out/destroying the sun. Even if we had nuclear war and we wiped out everything except for some little bacteria and microbes in the south pole, that's already like 50 steps from the beginning! Its already self-replicating competing DNA-based fucking life! :) > Just let me ask this: is the earth cleaner today than it was in > the 1970s? Or in the 30's? Or pretty much any time since the rise of human civilization? Hell, cavemen only spent like 20 hours a week MAX working. The rest of the time they could do whatever the hell they wanted; fuck, eat, explore, take drugs, whatever! In a super clean little ecosystem. O well. :) > ===>Well, what Brian and I are opposed to is becoming like > Cuba and China. Yeah but do you really think this will happen? Change happens slowly, that's the way it works (at least when its successful). If we were to end up like that it would be something that happens over a really long time. And having been to both cuba and china, I can say that there are some advantages to living in either country... And many disadvantages to living here. The US is hardly the end all be all of socio-economic models. In cuba everyone gets free really yummy cake and ice cream every weekend. Cuba is super laid back. Its poor as hell tho... Just trying to keep shit in perspective. :P > The U.S. finally voted out of office an > administration which was "buddy-buddy" with China--even > willing to sell our nuclear secrets and missiles to them. > China is a country which will massacre its own people > when they want change. (Granted, the U.S. Justice > Department was really no better under the Clinton > administration.) Hey, glad to see you're able to keep things in perspective too! :) I dunno, on the one hand, yeah china is fucked up and has its problems, but is it our place to go in and try and change their society? If they want to change I think its going to have to be something that's based from inside the country. As much as I think america could help china socially, how does it look to them, the meddling US coming in and telling them whats good for them? Doesn't seem too feasable. And as far as nuclear secrets? I don't think anyone should have them. Why is the US to be trusted so much with these weapons? Why do we go around trying to disarm countries of their weapons when we have BY FAR the largest collection of them? In a strange way I think we might actually be safer if every country had the same weapons. At least then we wouldn't have to squabble over who has the right and who doesn't... :) > ===>Only when people are permitted to be selfish does > true progress occur. Ahh, but is progress something to laud? :) Back to the caveman thing again... I mean, we may have televisions and the internet and whatnot, but we also have the highest rates of people in prison, perscribed psychiatric drugs, suicides, etc of most countries. PLUS the only country that works more than us is japan. And what do we have to show for it? The internet. Woo hoo. > This is why capitalism is superior to > socialism. The idea behind socialism, as I understand it, is to think selfishly in terms of the whole race. I mean, for me, my own murder would be just as wrong as the murder of a homeless man in central america or some mafia dude in russia. Life is life. And I think we capitolists could probably learn a lot from the human-race-as-one-individual view of the world. Other than us, a ton of the most successful animals on the planet do this. Ants for instance! Did you know that mass-wise, there is as much ant matter on the planet as human matter? Ants are pretty fucking successful and they don't have the internet. PLUS, they get to communicate with pheramones. Can you do that? Can you!? :) > This is why the United States and other capitalist > nations are so technologically advanced, and the standard of > living for their citizens is so high, and countries like China, We may have individuals with the highest 'Standard of living' but we also have lots and lots of people who basically live in thrid world conditions. Which is more important, that we can show off our smaller rich population or that we can effectively hide the poor hungry masses? And standard of living is based on what shit you own right? Last I checked owning lots of shit doesn't make you happy, necessarily. :) > Money is a MUCH better motivator than a gun in one's back. Yeah but that gun-in-the-back model of socialism wasn't really the original idea. The problem is that every time anyone has tried to apply the socialist model wholesale to a country, some selfish dude decides the people are idiots, cannot be trusted, and takes control of the whole thing himself. And some socialist stuff is really cool! Socialized medicine? I mean, do you realize that the united states is the only industrialized nation that doesn't have socialized medicine? > When I work on behalf of *myself* (which is, by definition, selfish), I think the only way you could make that statement is if you produce only things which you yourself consume. By the very definition of working in a society, you are providing goods and or services which are being utilized by someone else. So you aren't really working for youself. :) An argument could be made (altho I wont do it now) that you actually only work for those people to whom you end up giving all of your money. You have a morgage? You probably do a lot of work for the bank! :) > I produce much more than I would if I were working on > behalf of *the people*. You can't really make that statement tho. You have no idea how much you would work under conditions that you have never been in. :) > If money is the reward, then I will > work hard. So basically you like money. :) > If there *is* no incentive, then I'll only do what > I am forced to, and no more--I then become unproductive. What about survival? Does that count as incentive? Or fulfillment? There are other goals in life than money, my friend. > ===>Wow! Calm down! I am PROUD to say that I have never > done any illicit drugs, nor do I ever intend to. (And what the > hell's wrong with Cheetos?) ;-) What about prescribed shit? Alcohol? Antibiotics? The over-use of antibiotics scares me WAY more than the amounts of use of any quote unquote illicit drugs. Our definition of what drugs are 'good' and which ones are 'bad' is totally arbitrary, in my opinion. I mean alcohol is by far the most dangerous and the most abused drug. Is it illegal? Nope. Is it illicit? Nope. In the end, it all comes down to what do you want to put into your body. And, unless by ingesting said drugs you are endangering lots and lots of people (like with antibiotics), then I say what you put into your body should be your own choice. People do other things that are dangerous, like skydiving, swimming with sharks, gambling, etc. And yet the small amount of danger you expose yourself to by smoking a joint in a park is somehow sufficient to warrent throwing you in jail? That doesn't make much sense. > ===>Actually, Brian, I believe, *does* know what he's talking > about. You just happen to disagree with what he is saying, > which is fine. Good answer. Anyways, I know I've rambled and I'm pretty sure that none of what I put down progresses past musings or ramblings, and is pretty much not at all cohesive as an argument, but I'm really hung over so I'm not really on top of my game. :) :) :) # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 16:55:04 +0100 From: Matt.Skinner@skanska.co.uk Subject: RE: (orb) Aw, c'mon folks! >> Its poor as hell tho... It might be poor, but everyone gets the same wage i.e. 30 dollars. I think Doctor's get marginally more, but then they should do. I'm afraid that's what communism does. Ask yer average Cuban does he mind or does he care that a road sweeper gets the same - probably not, as he knows no different. Is it a bad thing? I don't know. I suspect that now the US embargo has gone [Jan this year] the US tourist dollar will start to make it a little more Capitalist. # Need help using (or leaving) this mailing list? # Send the command "info orb" to majordomo@lists.xmission.com. # To post, email orb@lists.xmission.com; replies go to original sender. ------------------------------ End of orb-digest V2 #471 *************************