From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Can you imagine? Date: 03 Jan 2000 16:53:13 -0700 Received: from THIOKOL.COM (gw2zz.thiokol.com [209.37.209.131]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:22:27 -0700 Received: from UTAH-Message_Server by THIOKOL.COM with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 03 Jan 2000 09:24:14 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Can you imagine working at the following Company? It has a little over 500 employees with the following statistics: *29 have been accused of spousal abuse *7 have been arrested for fraud *19 have been accused of writing bad checks *117 have bankrupted at least two businesses *3 have been arrested for assault *71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit *14 have been arrested on drug-related charges *8 have been arrested for shoplifting * 21 are current defendants in lawsuits *In 1998 alone, 84 were stopped for drunk driving Can you guess which organization this is? Give up? It's the 535 members of your United States Congress. The same group that perpetually cranks out hundreds upon hundreds of new laws designed to keep the rest of us in line. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: Davis County--Meeting with State Senator Terry Spencer--HIGH PRIORITY! Date: 06 Jan 2000 11:14:57 -0700 Sounds like they could use a large turnout to politely but firmly let the good Senator know he needs to support our right to own and carry guns. NOTE that an RSVP to the email below is requested of those planning to attend. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy --------- Forwarded message ---------- Notice of Meeting with State Senator Terry Spencer, who represents much of Davis County. This meeting will be on January 14 at 7:30 p.m. at the home of Dave Farrell (address below). We need all the attendance at this meeting we can get in order to impress upon Terry Spencer the importance of his standing up for the Second Amendment and not continuing his compromises of late. Spencer holds a key position on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which tends to see most of the Second Amendment legislation that comes before the legislature. Lately Spencer has been promoting a bill that would make it illegal for citizens to own firearms for a period of three years if they commit certain misdemeanors. We need to make it clear to Spencer that if there are misdemeanors so serious as to require the revocation of Second Amendment rights that these misdemeanors ought rather to be re-classified as felonies in order to keep from sliding down the slippery slope that could eventually make all misdemeanors grounds for loss of Second Amendment rights for umteen number of years. Spencer claims that the majority of people in Davis County support this legislation. Let's make it clear to him that just because a majority supports it, it does not make it right to go against the State Constitution which stipulates that only felons can have firearm privileges revoked. Spencer has also argued that even though this law goes against the State Constitution, certain court cases have set the precedent that allow these infringements. Spencer seems to be on the edge of deciding whether to support Second Amendment issues. We need to firmly--but politely--encourage him to stand up for what is Constitutionally correct. Please come and bring your pro-Second Amendment friends. I would like to get a count of the number who will be attending and how many you are bringing with you. Please email me this information when you know. (dahansen@uswest.net) Dave Farrell's home is at 180 E. Shepard Lane, Kaysville. Farrell's home is actually west of I-15. To get to his home, from highway 89, go west on Shepard Lane, the road by Smiths and Kmart in Farmington. Continue to go west past the Country Club, cross over the freeway and his house is about the seventh house (pink and grey colored) on the left, after you cross the bridge over the interstate.. I look forward to seeing all of you there. Dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shbergeson@cs.com Subject: FW: 2nd Amend. Action Alert Date: 10 Jan 2000 00:24:49 EST Utah Shooting Sports Council E-mail Action Alert A coalition made up of the Utah Parent Teacher Association (PTA), the Utah Education Association (teachers union), some non- LDS church leaders, and assorted anti-gun extremist is trying to get an anti-gun initiative on the November 2000 general election ballot. This deceptively titled "Safe to Learn, Safe to Worship Act" will prohibit licensed concealed carry permit holders from carrying firearms in houses of worship, universities, schools, and private homes. The coalition is busy collecting the thousands of signatures needed to get it on the ballot. If enough signatures are obtained in the required number of counties by June 1st, it will appear on the November 2000 ballot for passage or defeat by Utah voters. The news media spin is that the initiative is needed to keep guns out of schools. They have created the impression that this will stop juveniles, gang members or psychos. This is false. This initiative is not aimed as Harris and Klebold type juvenile gunmen, or serial rapists, or murderers, or carjackers, or kidnappers. This is aimed only at the 30,000 Utahns with concealed carry permits who have been cleared by the Department of Public Safety and passed an FBI background check. The above mentioned bad guys are already banned from having guns in schools, churches, or anywhere else by existing laws, but you won't hear that from the media. Most of the people gathering supporting this initiative have NOT even read the complete initiative, and do not understand what it actually requires. Every gun owner needs to fight this proposal. This is NOT just about concealed carry permit holders. This is a major assault on the ability of law abiding citizens to possess guns for self defense. It is also part of a larger campaign to relentlessly enact restrictions on the legal manufacture, sale, transfer, ownership, possession, or use of any type of gun by any person. This includes deer rifles and trap or skeet shotguns, ugly assault rifles and beautiful antique flintlocks, cheap surplus guns and expensive custom guns, small-easily concealed guns and guns too big to hide. They hate all guns and gun owners and are targeting one segment at a time. The anti gun fanatics are trying to nibble away at any edge they can find. This fight is important to ALL gun owners, not just the 30,000 Utahns with Concealed Carry Permits. YOU and YOUR guns may be next on their list! The language on this bill is complicated and technical. Few people will bother to read it. The full text of this bill is available from the Utah Lieutenant Governor's Office at http://governor.state.ut.us/lt_gover/guninitiative.htm. You need to review this and tell everyone you know to REFUSE TO SIGN THE PEITITIONS to put the initiative on next year's ballot. You especially need to talk with parents of school age children and others who attend PTA meetings and encourage everyone to speak out against this initiative in the PTA meeting. Ten points to keep in mind when discussing the initiative: (1) There has never been a shooting in a school caused by a concealed carry permit holder anywhere in Utah or the nation. (2) Two of the recent school shootings were stopped by private citizens with guns. The shooting in Pearl, Mississippi, was stopped when the assistant principal retrieved his gun from his car and confronted the shooter. No shots were fired. The shooting at the Edinboro, Pennsylvania, school dance was stopped when a citizen leveled a shotgun at the attacker and told him to stop. Again no shots were fired. These are details that the media tries to hide. (3) Research by Professor John Lott of Yale University (formerly with the University of Chicago) reveals that most mass public shootings take place in gun free zones. Places were the attackers know they will not meet any armed resistance. (4) Even radio's strongest supporter of children and safety, Dr. Laura Schlessinger, has decided that allowing law abiding citizens with permits to carry concealed weapons is a good idea, including in schools and churches. You can read Dr. Laura's column in the October 10, 1999 Deseret News. (5) This initiative defines a public or private pre-school or child care facility as a school. This means if you home school or do any day care in you home you could be barred from having guns in you home. (6) If you take night classes at any school in the state, and have to walk out to a dimly lit parking lot at night you will be unable to protect yourself. (7) This will ban hunter safety classes, gunsmithing courses, JROTC owned guns, competitive shooting sports, and even guns in museums on school or church property. (8) This initiative would require a concealed carry permit holder or any one legally in possession of a gun to get special permission to enter a private residence with a firearm, making their carrying of a gun common knowledge. They will become a more likely target for a criminal seeking a gun.. Convicted rapists, child molesters, murderers, drug dealers, burglars, or even people like Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer do not need to ask special permission to enter a private residence. But law abiding citizens will have to ask first! (9) Churches and Houses of worship already have the power to keep concealed carry permit holders off their property. Mere posting of a sign or verbal notification to permit holders is sufficient to forbid them from entering when armed. (10) Some religious leaders reportedly support the ban on guns in churches on theological grounds, claiming that guns have no place in sanctuaries or places of worship. If they don't want guns on their property they ALREADY have the means to ban them. The theological objection to guns is hypocritical, as these leaders are happy to make exceptions for on and off duty police officers. Imposing theological positions by passing laws is a clear violation of the separation between church and state. Religious groups should be allowed to worship as they see fit, free from government imposed rules of any sort. Will these same churches support a ban on communion wine because it is offensive to the theology of some other churches? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shbergeson@cs.com Subject: FW: New Book on 2nd A. Date: 10 Jan 2000 13:41:56 EST Subj: LPU: FW: New Book on 2nd A. FYI ---------- My new book titled A Little Handbook on the Second Amendment: What the American aristocracy Doesn't Want You to Know has just been listed on Amazon.com. This is the only place it can be purchased. It is a summary of Second Amendment information found in academic books, but it includes different points of view and a broader scope of information than that commonly found in books on this subject. There is a lot more to know about the Second Amendment than what is usually discussed. I believe this "little handbook" can have a major impact on the American debate from a pro-gun point of view if read widely. Getting it read widely is my challenge. It has been written, printed, and published on a "shoe string." I hope many will purchase and read it. An "academic" has written a very positive review, but it was not written for "academics." I am hoping many from the general reading population will take the time to submit candid reviews on Amazon.com. Any help you can provide will be very much appreciated. The URL is http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966935918/qid%3D945822745/002-8796618- 1272240 I apologize if you have received this message before. When you have something important to offer, but you're poor, you use every free resource possible to communicate and ask for help. I am unable to send free copies. Stay safe. Stay free. Joe Bass Suffolk, Virginia - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shbergeson@cs.com Subject: FW: 2nd Amendment Sites Date: 10 Jan 2000 13:42:04 EST Subj: LPU: 2nd Amendment Sites This nifty tool lets you click on a US map and see the basic gun laws of each state... http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1998/schools/gun.control/ This one is by Magna Gun Club in the UK http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/shootersenrichment/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shbergeson@cs.com Subject: Fwd: LPU: Poll: Registration of Hand Gunds on Vote.Com Date: 12 Jan 2000 02:24:28 EST --part1_b8.b8b82476.25ad862c_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --part1_b8.b8b82476.25ad862c_boundary Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from rly-xa02.mx.cs.com (rly-xa02.mail.cs.com [172.31.34.47]) by air-xa01.mail.cs.com (v67.7) with ESMTP; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:38:33 -0500 Received: from mail.qsicorp.com ([207.173.106.20]) by rly-xa02.mx.cs.com (v67.7) with ESMTP; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:38:25 -0500 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id WAA01066 for lputah-list; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 22:16:25 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.qsicorp.com: majordomo set sender to owner-lputah@mail.qsicorp.com using -f Received: from imo16.mx.aol.com (imo16.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.6]) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id WAA01063 for ; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 22:16:24 -0700 Received: from AHoward76@aol.com by imo16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v24.6.) id j.bd.bd509820 (3926) for ; Wed, 12 Jan 2000 00:16:04 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 Sender: owner-lputah@qsicorp.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lputah@qsicorp.com go to www.vote.com and vote NO on handgun registration. This is the site started by Dick Morris. Cheers, andrew LPUtah LPUtah -- This message sent via listserver "lputah@qsicorp.com" LPUtah -- All messages are the sole responsibility of the sender. LPUtah -- Support: Jim Elwell, email: elwell@inconnect.com LPUtah --part1_b8.b8b82476.25ad862c_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: REMEMBER WHEN? Date: 12 Jan 2000 09:00:37 -0700 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 20:11:36 -0700 Received: by fs1.mainstream.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA01713; Tue, 11 Jan 2000 22:11:11 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200001120311.WAA01713@fs1.mainstream.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: noban@mainstream.net X-Divvy-no: 1 A few years ago - 94 or 95? - there was this gentleman in New York who sponsored the Gun Clock or was it the Death Clock? He was dramatizing gun deaths. He had a message, and 800 number, and a large budget. Many of us were so interested in his message that we called and called just to hear it over and over. But, I fear, that we squandered his budget and the whole escapade went broke. Well, theie is now another opportunity. There is an organization advertising on T. V. in this region (Nebraska and Iowa) against gun violence. They call themselves the National Citizens Commision Against Crime. Their number is 1800 WE PREVENT. They would like to hear from you and send you some material. You will probably want some of this material sent to your home, your box number, your office, your health club and where ever else you might be wanting to review this vital material. Your Aunt Millie, Uncle Fred, Cousin Billie Wife, father, mother, son, daughter, significant other and any other will also want some of this material. It will cost them about a buck to receive each call and their mailing will likely cost them a few bucks also. Help them out. It costs a lot of money if one of these campaigns go on interminably so help them get rid of this material rapidly. Ya'all call now, tomorrow, before and afternoon and during siesta. Hasta Luego Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com - To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@mainstream.net, and as the body of the message (plain text, no HTML), send the following: - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shbergeson@cs.com Subject: FW: XEROX REFUSES TO FACE RESULTS OF THEIR ANTI-FIREARMS POLICY Date: 17 Jan 2000 22:43:28 EST ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization January 15, 2000 XEROX CORPORATION REFUSES TO FACE THE RESULTS OF THEIR ANTI-FIREARMS POLICIES: SPREAD THE WORD! Not long after the incident in Hawaii where a criminal attacked and killed several employees in a Xerox facility, JPFO contacted five top Xerox corporate officials. We obtained the names and addresses of these officials from their website, and sent personalized letters to each of them. In the letter we warned them about the seriously dangerous problems that their blanket no-firearms policy might cause. Bluntly stated, prohibiting employees from defending themselves essentially set up the employees as targets for the next vicious attacker. To date Xerox has not responded to the JPFO letter, and we are unaware of any action the corporation has taken to further protect employees in office buildings and warehouses. But now Xerox has been warned. If another attack occurs in a Xerox office building, it might be possible for the victims to sue Xerox for failing to heed warnings ... and a lawsuit like that could be a major wake-up call. There's a strategy here. First, people can continue to write to Xerox and demand to know why Xerox so far has refused to answer the JPFO letter. These letters help by pressuring Xerox to avoid taking a position in favor of victim disarmament. Xerox must be reminded that it lost employees and public good will by rendering them disarmed and defenseless. Second, people can modify the same letter and send it to the heads of other corporations. Put these corporations on notice that by their anti-firearms policies, and their (possible) support of "gun control," they are placing their employees and business visitors into danger without allowing those people any way to protect themselves. Remind the corporations that they face potential legal liability for their negligence in this area. Use this letter to help turn corporate America on its head. Just paste it into your word processor, adjust the facts and insert the correct names and addresses, personalize it so that it comes from you or your organization, and then send it out. Let JPFO know if you send a letter, and what response you get. JPFO will post the results on the website for the world to see. To make the letter most effective, use the cases and statutes that apply in your state or in the state where the company is located. You can get these cases and statutes from "Dial 911 and Die". Or you can just use "Dial 911 and Die" as your legal reference point, citing the page number. Order the book directly from the JPFO website or by calling (262) 673-9745. JPFO=92S LETTER TO XEROX: Dear : Your corporation suffered negative publicity recently when a criminal killed and injured a number of Xerox employees in a Xerox facility in Hawaii. Our organization carefully monitors workplace conditions where citizens are placed in physical jeopardy by the actions and policies of their government or employers. We are writing to offer some thoughts to help and to ask for your response. In the last two years, there have been many well-publicized cases in which criminals attacked unarmed and undefended employees, teachers and school children in public places. The incident in your facility was one among the series. While Department of Justice figures show violent crime rates dropping on average nationwide, there appears to be an upsurge of murderous attacks on unarmed and undefended people in schools and office buildings. Each of these public attack cases occurred in places where the innocent victims were not only undefended but were also forbidden to defend themselves adequately. In the Xerox case, for example, the attacker faced no armed opposition whatsoever. It seems rather logical that the attacker would choose the Xerox facility precisely because the attacker had good reason to believe that he would not face any armed resistance. We have been informed that Xerox corporate policies prohibit employees from carrying firearms or other weapons on the premises (security guards excepted). This policy, however, virtually assures that Xerox employees will be unarmed and undefended targets for violent criminals. In effect, Xerox=92s anti-weapons policy creates a dangerous working condition for the employees and visitors on the property. The policy "may be said to have created an especial temptation and opportunity for criminal misconduct." Cohen v. Southland Corp., 157 Cal. App. 3d 130, 140-41 (1994)(Southland Corp. could be liable for failing to protect customers from criminal attack on their premises). Although it seems like an obvious point, recent comprehensive research has confirmed that criminals tend to avoid assaulting, raping or attempting to murder people whom the criminals think might be armed. See John R. Lott, Jr., "More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws" (University of Chicago Press, 1998). The Xerox anti-weapons policy sets up a favorable target for attackers. For two reasons it is not enough for Xerox to respond to the threat of criminal attack by merely providing telephones for employees to "dial 911" for emergency help. First, less than 5 percent of all calls dispatched to police are made quickly enough for officers to stop a crime or arrest a suspect. Gordon Witkin, Monika Guttman & Tracy Lenzy, "This is 911 ... please hold," U.S. News & World Report, June 17, 1996, p. 30. As researchers put it, "cases in which 911 technology makes a substantial difference in the outcome of criminal events are extraordinarily rare."Ibid, quoting the conclusions of the researchers, Northeastern University Professor George Kelling and lawyer Catherine Coles. Second, under the law in nearly every state the government generally owes no duty to protect individual citizens from crime or criminal attack. See e.g., Freitas v. City and County of Honolulu, 574 P.2d 529, 532 (Haw. 1978), citing Riss v. City of New York, 240 N.E.2d 860 (N.Y. 1968). To verify this legal fact, we researched the law in all 50 states. We can supply you with a book entitled "Dial 911 and Die," which collects the statutes and court decisions, if the legal references will assist you. Legally, in most cases the victims are on their own to defend themselves. The Xerox corporate anti-weapons policy would seem to place Xerox in a difficult situation. By assuring the criminals that the victims are unprotected, Xerox is creating a dangerous workplace environment for which Xerox may face liability. Providing handy emergency telephones and depending upon local police forces to protect the employees under violent attack will likely not save any lives. Knowing the facts set forth in this letter, would Xerox management consider adjusting the no-weapons policy to allow non- violent, non-criminal employees to carry firearms or other protective weapons into the workplace for self-defense? If not, what measures will Xerox take to protect its unarmed and otherwise defenseless employees from future attacks like the one in Hawaii? We look forward to your response to our questions, and appreciate your help in this matter. Very truly yours, Aaron Zelman Executive Director Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership PO Box 270143 Hartford, Wisconsin 53027 Phone: 262-673-9745 Fax: 262-673-9746 http://www.jpfo.org/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Shbergeson@cs.com Subject: ALERT: Marty Stephens on Gun Control Date: 18 Jan 2000 16:55:27 EST Charles Hardy, who is mysteriously absent here of late, suggests: Looks like the speaker could use some phone calls and faxes. I humbly suggest calling his home in the evening and if he isn't home, leaving a polite but firm message against gun control. --------- Forwarded message ---------- PLEASE DISTRIBUTE! Fellow gun rights activists, Apparently Speaker of the House, Marty Stephens, is upset that gun owners (including me!) are calling him a traitor to gun rights. He thinks these allegations are false and unfair. (No, he didn't contact me, but he did contact one of my readers.) Facts to consider: 1. Marty Stephens did not oppose the Olympic Gun Ban last year. (As Speaker of the House, he doesn't vote on floor votes.) 2. Marty Stephens now says he supports Gov. "Gun-Grab" Leavitt. 3. Marty Stephens supports the Republican legislative leadership's "crime control" package. While that package hasn't been released yet, it presumably includes banning firearms ownership for so-called "violent misdemeanors", expanding mental health commitments (a round-about way to permanently revoke firearms rights), requiring background checks for all firearms transactions (which would make private sales illegal and shut down gun shows), and a ban on guns in churches and private residences, and probably in schools too. Marty Stephens is the most powerful person in Republican leadership. (Or one of the two most powerful if you want to include Sen. President Lane Beattie.) Anything that says "Republican leadership" is, therefore, Marty Stephens. If "leadership" supports something, pushes something, or fails to oppose something, that's Stephens. Stephens on gun control: "While much work remains to be done, House Speaker Marty Stephens said Tuesday there is a possibility that lawmakers and citizens pushing a gun-control initiative can reach agreement -- and the initiative won't be needed after all."... "But Tuesday, Stephens, R-Farr West, said he believes the guns-in-churches issue can be solved relatively easily. "I've met with leaders of all denominations," Stephens said, and an informal agreement has been reached whereby the concealed weapons permit holders need permission from church officials to carry a gun on church grounds. "That gets around the sticky issue of churches having to post signs saying "No Guns Allowed." "Concealed weapons in schools is a harder issue, Stephens agreed. "Basically, if wording can be found that will allow permit holders to carry their weapons on to school grounds to attend "approved" school functions and to take and drop off their children, Stephens said that, in concept, is something acceptable to him and perhaps to other members of the Utah House and Senate Republican caucuses." Deseret News, 9/28/99 "Stephens said there are about seven specific areas where compromise may be reached, such as including violent misdemeanants and those adjudicated mentally ill in gun-purchase background checks, making private residences off-limits to uninvited gun-toters and making background checks for casual sales at gun shows." Deseret News, 10/17/99 "Leavitt and Stephens met at the State Capitol recently and tentatively agreed to this Stephens-crafted compromise: The Legislature will pass a bill banning guns from schools and churches, including guns belonging to lawful concealed-weapon permit holders. "The bill, however, will authorize a two-tiered permit system that would recognize those who could prove a potential immediate need to defend themselves, such as having their lives threatened. That exclusive group would be allowed to carry weapons in schools. Law enforcement also would be authorized to carry weapons in those forbidden places. "Stephens, in recent days, has floated the idea among groups most active in the guns-out-of-school movement. It remains to be hammered out whether special permit holders who would have the right to carry at schools also would have the right to carry in state offices, which currently are off-limits, besides law enforcement officers, due to an executive order by Leavitt." Paul Rolly, Salt Lake Tribune, 6/27/99 "'I will not be a candidate for governor. In addition, I will be supporting Mike Leavitt,' Stephens said." Salt Lake Tribune, 12/15/99 It is true that Rep. Stephens helped stop the special "gun control" session of the legislature last year, and he does deserve thanks for doing so. But was that sincere, or was it political grandstanding? Does he object to gun control on principle, or did he just object to the special session for reasons perhaps unrelated to gun control? Do any of the above quotes sound like Marty Stephens is a friend to gun owners? I certainly don't think so! If Marty wants us to believe that he does not support gun control he must: 1. State PUBLICLY that he does not support ANY gun control legislation. 2. Tell Republican House members that he does not support ANY gun control legislation. 3. Actively work to defeat such legislation. 4. Meet with leaders of Utah's no-compromise gun rights groups to discuss how such legislation can be defeated and what pro-gun legislation can be supported. Leaders should include representatives from both Gun Owners of America (Arnold Gaunt and Sarah Thompson, informal local contacts) and GOUtah! - and not just USSC and the NRA. 5. Vote against all gun control legislation in committee and if there is a tie on the House floor. WHAT YOU CAN DO! Contact Rep. Marty Stephens 318 State Capitol SLC, UT 84114-0116 801-731-5346 (home) 801-538-1930 (work) 801-538-1908 (fax) mstephen@le.state.ut.us Tell him that if he's REALLY a friend to gun owners, he must oppose ALL gun control, state his opposition to gun control publicly, and do everything (ethical) within his power as Speaker of the House to defeat ALL gun control. Compromising our rights away is absolutely NOT ACCEPTABLE! If Speaker Stephens is not willing to do this, he supports gun control and should stop complaining when people tell the truth about him and his record. If Stephens wishes to issue a correction or clarification to anything I've written, I'll be happy to distribute it. If he'd like to meet with local gun rights activists, I'd be happy to meet with him. (Obviously I can't speak for anyone but myself!) But in the end, it's actions, not words, that count. If Marty Stephens is really a friend to gun owners, he'll stop looking for ways to compromise our rights away, and start actively opposing all gun control. Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts ------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to leg-alerts-request@aros.net with the line unsubscribe leg-alerts in the body. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: LEG ALERT - DPS fees, Stephens, and Leavitt Date: 18 Jan 2000 15:33:46 -0700 ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy --------- Forwarded message ---------- A few quick notes... 1. Yesterday's alert was inadvertently far too charitable towards Rep. Marty Stephens. He DID vote for the Olympic gun ban last year. Please keep this in mind - especially if you will be attending any of his town meetings this week. 2. HB 174 - Public Safety Fee Process Revision has already made it to the House 3rd reading calendar! (For an explanation of how the process works, please see http://www.le.state.ut.us/legproc.htm) Because this proposal was passed unanimously by the interim committee, there will not be committee hearings! HB 174 allows DPS to raise fees for CCW permits and background checks by simply including them in DPS's operating budget. While it's true that there is legislative oversight for the budget via appropriations, it's unlikely that anyone is going to vote against funding DPS, and gun owners will be completely out of the process. Fee increases will be limited to 5% a year, but they'll occur every year. That adds up to about 63% over ten years! And of course, there is no justification for forcing people to pay to exercise a RIGHT. (Would you accept a fee for voting?) Fees for background checks should be paid out of the general fund, so that no one is penalized for exercising a constitutional right. And since the FBI doesn't charge for background checks, Utahns shouldn't have to pay for them at all! ACTION: Please CALL your Representative and let him/her know that the legislature MUST retain control over DPS fees and ask him/her to OPPOSE HB 174. Contact info for Representatives can be found at: http://www.le.state.ut.us/house/Members/Email/email.htm Today's quotes: "How about limiting possession of guns in our churches and in our schools?" Gov. Mike Leavitt, State of the State Address, 1/17/00 Earth to Gov. Leavitt! Possession of guns in our churches and schools is ALREADY limited! It's limited to law enforcement officers, and to law abiding citizens who have passed a rigorous background check and taken a class in firearms safety and laws. Yes, we know you mean "ban". Why not just say so? In fact, why not say that you want to make it as safe and easy as possible for vicious criminals to shoot up schools and churches and murder our most innocent citizens? "He did a great job," said Stephens... (on the State of the State address) For those of you planning to attend any of Rep. Stephens's (or other) Town Meetings, I'd appreciate a report! Thanks! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts ------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to leg-alerts-request@aros.net with the line unsubscribe leg-alerts in the body. ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: ALERT--We're starting to make the legislature nervous Date: 18 Jan 2000 15:22:56 -0700 all Looks like the calls, letters, and faxes are having a good effect. If you haven't contacted your legislators and the legislative leadership yet, plese do so tonight. If you have, please take the time to contact a couple of the legislators mentioned in this article (During the session, I find it is easiest to contact legislators by calling them at home in the late evening--usually between 8:00 pm and 10:00 pm. If they are not home, I leave a message with my phone number, asking them to call me back--"I'm up really late so he can call me anytime tonight"--and leaving my position on the issue. I also make sure to let them know I am a registered voter, a GOP delegate, and, if my own legislator that I live in their district, or if not my legislator, that I have friends, co-workers, and/or family living in their district who look to me for voting advice. I am, of course, always polite with legislators and polite even to a fault with their family members who take my message.) Remember, this article signals a potential for success, NOT a sign that it is ok to sit out a few more days before contacting legislators. History terrifyingly proves that if the anti-gun forces can convince the fence sitters to allow the bar for revocation of civil rights to be lowered to include misdomeenors--even a single really nasty misdomeenor for only a very short time--they will be back next year and the next and next to perpetually add to the list of misdomeenors and the length of time civil rights are denied. We will never get that bar raised back up. If some act is so heinous that civil rights ought to be denied as a result of it, that act ought to be moved up to a felony and all civil rights--including the right to vote, hold office, obtain professional licenses, RKBA, and even drivers licenses, etc, ought to be denied. The current proposal would create a situation in which a person could be denied the right to own a gun while still being allowed to prescribe narcotics, perform sugery, counsel the mentally ill, deal in stocks, bonds and other investments, be a sworn peace officer, be a member of the bar and an officer of the court, or even make, execute, or judge laws as a legislator, governor, or judge. If non-violent felons do not retain their right to own and carry a gun after serving their time, why should even violent midomeenants lose their right to do so? From today's Deseret News: Gun rights groups take aim at bills By Bob Bernick Jr. and Zack Van Eyck Deseret News staff writers Heavy lobbying by gun rights advocates is causing Utah GOP lawmakers to pause a bit before they move forward with their "crime fighting" package. "I can't tell you how may calls, e-mails and contacts I've gotten," said House Majority Leader Kevin Garn, R-Layton, Tuesday morning. House leaders hoped to get some parts of the package passed this week, the first of the 2000 session. Now it will be next week or maybe longer, Garn said. A new Deseret News poll showed overwhelming citizen support for a number of gun-con-trol measures before lawmakers this session. The main sticking point, says Rob Bishop, chief lobbyist for the Utah Shooting Sports Council, is a bill that includes dozens of violent misdemeanor offenses in gun-buying background checks. "It's really a philosophical question," Bishop said Tuesday as he waited outside of the House chambers to talk to lawmakers. "Misdemeanors are not as serious as felonies. Is it right to take away someone's (constitutionally protected) rights for a lesser crime than a felony?" questioned Bishop, a former speaker of the Utah House. Felonies are included in gun background checks now. Asked if gun advocates would support or oppose the Republicans' crime package, Bishop said: "It depends on what the package is. It could change," hinting that the misdemeanor bill could be dropped. Later Tuesday, GOP House leaders were set to discuss just what their package would hold during a party caucus. Garn said a number of House Republicans believe the misdemeanor bill — already approved by the interim Judiciary Committee — should be part of the package. GOP Gov. Mike Leavitt and legislative Democrats also support the bill. "But they (gun rights advocates) have been talking to a lot of people up here. We'll see," Garn said. "The best I can tell is that they don't want any gun legislation passed up here at all. They're even opposed to my bill," which would require concealed weapons permit holders to pass a basic test of gun safety and operation. Not so, said Bishop, as he ticked off some bills that gun advocates "won't oppose." They include bills that would add to gun purchase background checks whether a person has been civilly committed for a mental illness or found by a court to be mentally ill and a person's juvenile court records for 10 years after turning 18. That information would be taken into account in deciding whether a person can buy a gun. Bishop also said there is support for Rep. Matthew Throckmorton's bill that would ban the state, cities and counties from suing gun manufacturers for damages caused by illegal use of their products. The Springville Republican's bill, as of now, is not a part of the Republicans' crime fighting package, House leaders said. Some GOP lawmakers believe misdemeanors can warrant whether someone loses the right to own a firearm. "You could beat the heck out of someone, bloody their nose, give them a black eye, and it is a misdemeanor. Well, that is pretty violent," and the attacker shouldn't be able to go out and buy a gun afterward, said House Majority Assistant Whip Greg Curtis, R-Sandy. Curtis, West Jordan's city attorney, personally prosecuted these kinds of misdemeanors for five years. "I know the kind" of violence that can occur under misdemeanor law. And it can be serious, he said. Currently, a judge could order a man convicted of a violent misdemeanor, as a condition of his probation, not to own a gun for three years. "This is what the bill says — no gun for three years. Not for the rest of your life, but a time," said Curtis. Curtis said he, too, had been heavily lobbied on the gun bills, especially the misdemeanor background check statute. "For years, (gun right advocates) have said don't harm law abiding citizens, go after the criminals. So we carefully screen out the violent misdemeanors to include (in background checks). And now they say don't include these violent criminals as well. I find it disingenuous." Bishop said the misdemeanor gun bill remains open to negotiation. "We're working with legislators on it. Perhaps if there is a pattern of several violent misdemeanor convictions" then a person could be denied the right to buy a gun. Senate President Lane Beattie said in his opinion the gun package is still on schedule and is not being delayed. "I never thought we were going to be passing (gun) legislation the first week of the session," he said. "We're not pushing it, we're just trying to get it into committees so they (lawmakers) can hear it." Beattie said he has not been subject to intense lobbying but acknowledged the gun lobby may be putting pressure on others. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy To Post a message, send it to: gopconservatives@eGroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: gopconservatives-unsubscribe@eGroups.com For the fastest and easiest way to backup your files and, access them from anywhere. Try @backup Free for 30 days. Click here for a chance to win a digital camera. http://click.egroups.com/1/337/2/_/97595/_/948232623/ eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/gopconservatives/ http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: 10 reasons to oppose misdemeanor removal of gun rights (SB 79) Date: 20 Jan 2000 08:35:13 -0700 all In no particular order is a list of ten reasons to oppose the removal of gun rights for the conviction of certain misdemeanors. I'm sure there are other reasons as well. Please feel free to make use of this in any way you'd like which you think will help protect our right to buy, sell, own, and carry guns. I believe all of my facts are correct and have made efforts to verify them. However, if anyone finds anything in error, please let me know. Please take some time to personnally call your legislators, legislative leadership, and key committee members. Even if your legislator is a flaming liberal gun grabber--like mine--take the time to let him/her know he/she will feel the heat of anti-gun votes come convention/primary/election time. Also try to attend one of the town meetings being held by Speaker Stephens or other legislators. If you know of any town meetings by legislators, please keep the rest of us posted. Charles Ten reasons to oppose misdemeanor crime bill. (Currently SB 79) 1 Precedence or Tradition or Culture-For some 250 years in this country and probably 250 more years in England and English colonies before that, the right to buy or own weapons has only been denied upon conviction of a felony. It is certainly foolish and arrogant to suggest such a dramatic change to that half millennia of precedence. 2 Overly broad-Currently includes such "violent" crimes as "cruelty to animals" (a tipped over water bowl or tangled chain?) and spanking a child. 3 Slippery Slope-Open the door this year, and anti-gun legislators are sure to be back year after year to add to the list of misdemeanors and lengthen the time gun rights are revoked. 4 Due Process-A felony indictment carries with it a whole host of procedures, rights, safeguards, and protections which are afforded the accused. Misdemeanor indictments do not carry all of these same protections. For example, for a class B misdemeanor, only four (4) jurors are required to find a guilty verdict; for a class A misdemeanor, only six (6) jurors are required to find a guilty verdict. However, felonies require eight (8) jurors in order to find a guilty verdict. Do we really want to lower the legal safeguards in place before we are able to remove basic civil rights? 5 "Reciprocity" or "Our moral obligation to warn our neighbors"-Those denied gun rights under misdemeanor convictions would not be prohibited from buying or owning a gun in other States. This not only allows a person refused a gun purchase in Utah from crossing State lines temporarily to buy a gun (only long guns may be legally purchased in a State other than the one in which you legally reside), but it also allows our violent criminals to move to another State and legally buy or own any gun. Other States have no way of knowing that Utah considers these people untrustworthy to own a gun. However, a felony conviction would prevent a violent criminal from crossing State lines and gives ample and fair warning to other States that this person cannot own a gun. On the other side of the coin, how will Utah go about determining which misdemeanors committed in other States (or territories or even countries) should disqualify a person from owning a gun. What will it cost us to compile the list of similar enough offenses as they are listed in who only knows how many other jurisdictions? How will a person accused of a misdemeanor in another State have any idea that his slap-on-the-wrist plea bargain (accepted only to avoid the expense of a trial) actually carries with it the revocation of basic rights should he later move to Utah and that it really is worth the cost and effort to mount a significant defense? Or do backers of this bill intend to allow violent misdemeanants relocating from other areas to retain their rights? 6 Horizontal Consistency-If the commission of a certain crime is worthy of removal of gun rights, isn't it also worthy of removal of various professional licenses? This bill would create a class of convicts whom the State deemed untrustworthy to buy a gun, but still perfectly trustworthy to: practice medicine; prescribe narcotics; practice law; sell or manage stocks, bonds, insurance, or securities; teach school; counsel the mentally ill; work in a daycare or elderly care facility; serve in elected or appointed office as a legislator, governor, city councilman, judge, etc; operate a semi-truck; or even be a police officer. 7 Vertical Consistency-If the legislature is really interested in keeping guns out of the hands of violent criminals rather than simply expanding the number of people who cannot buy guns, then why isn't anyone talking about restoring non-violent felons' right to buy or own a gun? (Currently ALL felony convictions result in the loss of the right to buy or own a gun) 8 Simply Not Needed #1-Virtually all violent misdemeanors have felony counterparts. Prosecutors are perfectly free to charge suspects with a felony rather than a misdemeanor. If there isn't sufficient evidence to obtain a felony conviction, should we really be denying basic civil rights? 9 Simply Not Needed #2-Class A Misdemeanors already carry a maximum term of up to one year in jail and three years probation plus fines. Obviously, no one in jail is going to be buying a gun and a judge is already empowered to impose limits on gun possession as a condition of probation if he feels it appropriate to do so. Is it wise to hog tie judges' ability to mete out proper and just punishment by imposing mandatory sentences? 10 Ex Post Facto Law-As currently written, SB 79 is an ex post facto law in that it applies a new and stronger punishment for acts committed before the law took effect. Someone who was convicted of a misdemeanor--perhaps simply by agreeing to not contest a misdemeanor charge--two years ago would lose his/her right to buy a gun. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: ALERT--GOP selling out gun rights Date: 20 Jan 2000 09:11:14 -0700 No time to rest. From today's tribune: Republican Lawmakers Say Whip Got It Wrong; Crime Package Will Include Restrictive Gun Bill BY DAN HARRIE THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Utah House Republicans were scrambling to do some damage control Wednesday after their spokesman on the touchy topic of gun control distorted the majority party's views on a key firearms bill. Majority Whip Dave Ure, R-Kamas, told reporters Tuesday that a closed-door caucus vote by Republicans was divided on Senate Bill 79, which would restrict gun purchase and possession rights for people convicted of violent misdemeanors. The tally reflected insufficient support to include the measure in a Republican crime-fighting package to be unveiled next week, Ure indicated. The vote, "was split just about right down the wire," Ure had said. "There are some unhappy people with how it's written up." Ure was designated point man on the crime package, and House Speaker Marty Stephens and other GOP leaders referred questions on the gun bills to him. But on Wednesday, Ure was taken to task by fellow legislative leaders in a private meeting. They said he got it wrong. "It's part of our package," Majority Leader Kevin Garn, R-Layton, said Wednesday of SB79. "There was never any question of that." Garn said the secret vote by the GOP caucus on Tuesday was better than 2-to-1 in favor of the bill. While 16 of the 54 House Republicans were absent or not voting, the sentiment was clear, said Garn. "A majority of the Republican caucus will support that bill," said Garn. Ure spoke in opposition to the bill in the closed-door meeting and "has got some issues with the bills," Garn said. Ure would not explain why his vote count was so different from Garn's. However, he said he understood that any bill to be included in the crime package would require 38 votes in the GOP caucus -- the number needed to pass it on the entire floor, without Democratic votes. While Garn insisted that a bill on violent misdemeanors will be included in the anti-crime package, it may look quite different from the current version. Gun-rights groups, including the National Rifle Association and the Utah Shooting Sports Council, have targeted SB79 for defeat. USSC Chairman Elwood Powell has labeled the measure gun owners' "worst nightmare" for the 2000 Legislature. "We're going to narrow it. It needs some work," said Garn. "We may shrink the list [of specified misdemeanors]. We may change it a little bit, but the concept is there." SB79 identifies 33 misdemeanors, with convictions carrying a three-year withdrawal of gun rights. The list ranges from simple assault and negligent homicide to certain drug crimes and lewdness involving a child. The bill was initiated by Gov. Mike Leavitt last summer and drafted by prosecutors and others. The Legislature's Judiciary Interim Committee unanimously endorsed the bill in August after lawmakers trimmed the list to the current 33 misdemeanors. snip .... ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: ALERT--USSC getting ready to sell out on critical rights Date: 20 Jan 2000 13:00:10 -0700 From today's Deseret News: Bishop, speaking for gun owners in general, said his groups would like to see citizens denied the right to buy a gun only upon a second conviction for a violent misdemeanor. "And we'd like to see some of these (30) crimes whittled down a bit, simplified, and make the punishment for these crimes enhanced. Is Bishop speaking for you on this issue? Better let your legislators know. You might also want to let the USSC know that gun owners don't appreciate them, or their lobbyist, bargaining away our rights. Utah Shooting Sports Council P.O. Box 1975 Layton, UT 84041-6975 ussc@oldguns.net phone number neither listed on web page nor available via 411 If anyone has contact info for Rob Bishop directly, that might also be helpful. I believe he can probably be contacted via the Utah State Republican HQ at 801-533-9777. If no one answers they have a nice voice mail system allowing you to leave a "general message" by pressing "9". There is no option for Bishop. Let's at least fill up the GOP HQ's voicemailbox on this on. GOP leaders tackle gun issues House lawmakers also discussing transportation cash By Bob Bernick Jr. Deseret News staff writer Gov. Mike Leavitt huddled with Republican House leaders Thursday morning over guns and transportation funding — the two issues that have dominated the first week of the 2000 Legislature. House leaders hope to finalize their "crime-fighting" package and perhaps hold a press conference sometime Friday to formally announce what bills and issues Republican will push this session. Thursday morning, GOP leaders said they were looking to add a few measures. "We want to include as much as we can, wrap it all up in a big red ribbon" and start public hearings and taking votes, said House Rules Chairman Susan Koehn, R-Woods Cross. Rob Bishop, lobbyist for the Utah Shooting Sports Council, said meetings have been going on for several days, with one lasting into Wednesday evening. "There are no agreements yet. But we're progressing. And I feel very good about where we're going," Bishop said. A major stumbling block is legislation by Sen. Terry Spencer, R-Layton, sponsor of SB79, a bill that would include 30-odd violent misdemeanors in gun-purchase background checks. Upon leaving the meeting with House leaders Thursday morning, held in Speaker Marty Stephens' office, the governor said he still supports SB79 "as it is written. I hope it passes. We'll see what happens." House Majority Leader Kevin Garn, R-Layton, said SB79 "is part of our package," a clarification from misinformation given out after Tuesday's closed House GOP caucus. Spencer said he believes the bill can win approval without major changes. The bill identifies 32 misdemeanors, including assault, arson and child abuse, as reasons to deny a gun permit for a period of three years. Spencer said some of the offenses, many of which he points out also can be charged as felonies, could be knocked off the list before the bill completes the process. Bishop, speaking for gun owners in general, said his groups would like to see citizens denied the right to buy a gun only upon a second conviction for a violent misdemeanor. "And we'd like to see some of these (30) crimes whittled down a bit, simplified, and make the punishment for these crimes enhanced. "If we're saying these are such serious crimes, that you take away a person's right to a firearm, then the punishment should be greater" than regular fines and jail time for a Class A or Class B misdemeanor, Bishop said. On the transportation front, GOP leaders are struggling with how to balance the Centennial Highway Fund and not take any money out of it. Leavitt wants $25 million removed in fiscal 2001 and given to education. Leaders don't want to do that. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: [Fwd: LPU: FW: USSC should fire Rob Bishop as its lobbyist] Date: 22 Jan 2000 20:38:04 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------19FD022A551E2757ABA6B28C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------19FD022A551E2757ABA6B28C Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: shbergeson@mail-slkc.uswest.net Received: (qmail 17683 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:37 -0000 Received: from mail4.uswest.net (204.147.80.22) by pop.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:27:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 11533 invoked by alias); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:36 -0000 Delivered-To: shbergeson@uswest.net Received: (qmail 11438 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.qsicorp.com) (207.173.106.20) by mail4.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:27:34 -0000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id TAA21799 for lputah-list; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:26:32 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.qsicorp.com: majordomo set sender to owner-lputah@mail.qsicorp.com using -f Received: from mail.inconnect.com (mail.inconnect.com [209.140.64.7]) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA21796 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:26:31 -0700 Message-Id: <200001230226.TAA21796@mail.qsicorp.com> Received: (qmail 6862 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 02:26:28 -0000 Received: from 1-51.dialup.inconnect.com. (HELO ?209.140.67.50?) (209.140.67.50) by mail with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:26:28 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) CC: Bill Barton , Drew Chamberlain , Jim Kirkwood , Janalee Tobias , Mike Ridgway , Ken Olafson , Betty Christensen , Cal Andrus , Tom Boley Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lputah@qsicorp.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lputah@qsicorp.com "Gumby," the pseudonymous provider of the following, like so many other conservative elephants, seems unable to grasp these basic concepts: 1. Rob Bishop, now state chair of the GOP, is a government school _TEACHER_. 2. The government school teachers (read UEA) took over the GOP years ago. 3. The USSC is affiliated with the NRA (National Republican Apologists) and the NRA has a long history of compromising. 4. The USSC replaced Scott Engen as their lobbyist with Rob Bishop. Engen helped start the no-compromise GOUtah!. Bishop must have reasonably assumed USSC wanted more compromise. 5. Within the GOP, Bishop fights or otherwise undermines every effort to make candidates adhere to the RPUtah's mostly libertarian platform. 6. While politics is the art of compromise, compromising basic principles with gun-grabbers is a no-win proposition. BTW, as per my previous postings, I completely agree with Gumby that the violent misdemeanor option should be closed. If it's a violent crime, it should be a felony. ---------- To ALL: This is a good point about USSC and Rob Bishop selling us out to the legislators. He did this last year and is doing the same thing this year. Let your legislature know he does not speak for the gun owners. Gumby This morning's Deseret News had the following quote: "Bishop, speaking for gun owners in general, said his groups would like to see citizens denied the right to buy a gun only upon a second conviction for a violent misdemeanor. "And we'd like to see some of these (30) crimes whittled down a bit, simplified, and make the punishment for these crimes enhanced." Note the the Utah Shooting Sports Council has hired Rob Bishop to be its lobbyist. This is what I wrote to Elwood Powell, who heads up the USSC: "Elwood Powell: I'm concerned that Rob Bishop is continuing to compromise our stand. No matter whether it's one, two, three, or five misdemeanors, if the USSC supports this compromise of the principles enshrined in our Constitution (that only felons should lose their civil rights), then we begin down a slippery slope that has no bottom except eventual confiscation of all firearms based on the tiniest misdemeanors. We can win this without compromise. We have logic on our side, and we have what is RIGHT on our side. Please fire Rob Bishop. He should be saying: make these violent misdemeanors FELONIES!!! Do you want these people who commit these crimes to hold public office, vote, etc.? Let's use common sense. "STOP THE COMPROMISE! "Also, your quote recently about schools doing nothing to enhance safety implied that schools should be installing metal detectors and adding more policemen. I don't believe this is any kind of a reasonable proposal. Let's not make our schools into mini-garrisons. Simply allowing law-abiding citizens (teachers and parents) to exercise their inalienable right to defend their lives through CCW would be quite enough deterrent all by itself. Israel hasn't had a single terrorist incedent in its schools since its teachers have been able to be armed. Besides that, your statement implies that after we install the metal detectors and new guards, and that doesn't work (and it probably won't), then the gun grabbers will then come back at us for more gun control measures." End of quote. You may want to email Mr. Powell and help to persuade him that he does not represent all shooters in Utah, and that his compromising is certainly not in the best interest of any of Utah's citizens. Also tell him to tell Rob to stop telling media and legislators that he speaks for all Utah gun owners. His email address is: 1dpowell@sisna.com (starts with the numeral "1") Phone: 801-476-8274 LPUtah LPUtah -- This message sent via listserver "lputah@qsicorp.com" LPUtah -- All messages are the sole responsibility of the sender. LPUtah -- Support: Jim Elwell, email: elwell@inconnect.com LPUtah --------------19FD022A551E2757ABA6B28C-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: [Fwd: LPU: FW: Stephens, Mansell, Bishop] Date: 22 Jan 2000 20:40:10 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4778D94ECA47B9D2E2EB8382 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------4778D94ECA47B9D2E2EB8382 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: shbergeson@mail-slkc.uswest.net Received: (qmail 18285 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:38 -0000 Received: from mail8.uswest.net (204.147.80.26) by slkcpop1.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:27:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 75876 invoked by alias); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:44 -0000 Delivered-To: shbergeson@uswest.net Received: (qmail 75823 invoked by uid 0); 23 Jan 2000 02:27:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.qsicorp.com) (207.173.106.20) by mail8.uswest.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:27:43 -0000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id TAA21808 for lputah-list; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:26:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.qsicorp.com: majordomo set sender to owner-lputah@mail.qsicorp.com using -f Received: from mail.inconnect.com (mail.inconnect.com [209.140.64.7]) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA21805 for ; Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:26:47 -0700 Message-Id: <200001230226.TAA21805@mail.qsicorp.com> Received: (qmail 6896 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2000 02:26:32 -0000 Received: from 1-51.dialup.inconnect.com. (HELO ?209.140.67.50?) (209.140.67.50) by mail with SMTP; 23 Jan 2000 02:26:32 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) CC: Bill Barton , Drew Chamberlain , Jim Kirkwood , Janalee Tobias , Mike Ridgway , Ken Olafson , Betty Christensen , Cal Andrus , Tom Boley Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lputah@qsicorp.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lputah@qsicorp.com More from Gumby ---------- To All, PLEASE FORWARD! Arnold Gaunt and I met with Speaker Marty Stephens Thursday, and had a pleasant and productive meeting. Rep. Stephens said he is happy to talk or meet with concerned individuals. He deserves credit for his willingness to do so, and I encourage all of you to share your thoughts and concerns with him. Phone: 801-731-5346 - home, 801-538-1930 - Capitol. And remember that he will be holding more town meetings next week! (The details were in a previous leg-alert.) Marty Stephens's position on current gun bills, according to our conversation: (A summary of each bill can be found in the previous post. Please refer to it for details!) HB 161, Background checks for Weapons Purchase: SUPPORTS (I oppose this one.) HB 174, DPS Fee Increases: OPPOSES (Agreed) HB 176, Weapons Restrictions for Mentally Ill Persons: PARTIAL SUPPORT Stephens supports revoking rights for offenders who plead not guilty by reason of insanity, or guilty but mentally ill. (I agree!) He opposes relaxing the standards for involuntary commitment. (I agree again!) But he isn't yet willing to commit to opposing revocation of rights for involuntary commitment. HB 199, Limits on Gun Manufacturer's Liability: SUPPORTS (Agreed) HB 245, Improving Safety in Public Schools: NO POSITION. Rep. Stephens seemed supportive of amending this bill to include all violent acts. HB 248, Gun Bans in Schools, Churches, Residences: Although we did not discuss this bill specifically, Stephens says he opposes gun bans in schools, churches and private residences. (Agreed) SB 16, "Safe" Storage: OPPOSES (Agreed) SB 32, Marksmanship tests: OPPOSES (He also thinks that Garn's similar bill will be pulled.) (Agreed) SB 37, School Surveys: I didn't ask about this one, as it's not directly a gun bill. SB 79, Violent Misdemeanors: OPPOSES the bill "as written". Would like to see the distinction between felonies and misdemeanors preserved. BUT, would consider supporting the bill if it's reduced to 5-6 "weapons" offenses. We really need to keep the heat up on this one! If a weapons violation is truly violent, it can and should be prosecuted as a felony. If it's not violent (carrying a firearm without a permit, carrying in an airport) it shouldn't result in revocation of rights. Of course the same logic applies to non weapons offenses too! And perverting justice completely by convicting people of misdemeanors and punishing them for felonies is completely out of the question!! SB 87, Gun bans in churches and residences OPPOSES. See HB 248 Another topic of discussion was the (inappropriately named) Republican Crime Package, which may be introduced as early as today. According to Stephens, this package will contain: HB 161 HB 245 HB 176 (or more likely Sen. Spencer's version!) Maybe SB 79 (I hope not!) A sentencing bill that has not yet been introduced. Of course these bills are unlikely to do anything about crime - but they do effectively demonize gun owners and blame US for crime! Background checks don't stop criminals for two reasons: Criminals buy guns from other criminals, not from gun stores. And criminals who try to purchase guns from dealers aren't prosecuted. (Stephens did say he'd support a bill to prosecute felons who try to purchase guns. So why isn't THAT in the "crime package?) Gun bans don't stop criminals either. Criminals, by definition, don't obey laws! And the mentally ill are no more violent than the population as a whole, so singling them out for special persecution and revocation of rights is nothing more than irrational bigotry. (Some mentally ill people commit crimes of course, but the vast majority of criminals are NOT mentally ill and the vast majority of mentally ill are NOT criminal!) PLEASE call Speaker Stephens. 801-731-5346 or 801-538-1930 Or attend one of his town meetings next week. 1. Thank him for his support of gun rights so far. 2. Let him know that blaming law abiding gun owners for crime is offensive! 3. Ask him to ACTIVELY support HB 199 by making sure it gets assigned to a friendly committee, and by encouraging others to support it. 4. Ask him to ACTIVELY oppose all gun control bills! As Speaker of the House, he has tremendous influence over which bills pass. He did a great job in opposing gun control in a special session, but now it's time to oppose gun control in the regular session! 5. DO NOT BACK DOWN ON "VIOLENT MISDEMEANORS"! Rights should NEVER be revoked except upon a FELONY conviction, after a JURY trial! NO COMPROMISE!! 6. Encourage - and offer your support for - a bill to prosecute felons who attempt to purchase firearms. NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO BACK DOWN! NOW IS THE TIME TO KEEP THE PRESSURE STRONG! I am trying to reach Sen. Spencer and Senate President Lane Beattie. I'll let you know when/if I succeed! Quotes from the confused... In a conversation Wednesday, Sen. Al Mansell, (Ass't. Senate Majority Whip) informed me that "Carrying concealed is not a G-d given right. You didn't have that right until we gave it to you five years ago." Maybe it's time to require Constitutional literacy tests for legislators. We HAVE inalienable rights including the right of self defense. No one has to "give" them to us, and no one can take them away. The Constitutions of the US and of Utah guarantee those rights; they don't GRANT them. The legislature took a step in the right direction five years ago when it partially recognized that right. Now it's time to stop infringing on that right with permits, licenses, fees, taxes and other restrictions. The Constitution LIMITS the power of government; neither it nor the legislature "grants rights". And in Thursday's Deseret News: "(Rob) Bishop, speaking for gun owners in general, said his groups would like to see citizens denied the right to buy a gun only upon a second conviction for a violent misdemeanor. "And we'd like to see some of these (30) crimes whittled down a bit, simplified, and make the punishment for these crimes enhanced. "If we're saying these are such serious crimes, that you take away a person's right to a firearm, then the punishment should be greater" than regular fines and jail time for a Class A or Class B misdemeanor, Bishop said." Rob Bishop is the State Republican Party Chair and is also the paid lobbyist for the Utah Shooting Sports Council. He does NOT speak for "gun owners in general". We do NOT support denying anyone any rights based on misdemeanor convictions. Is Rob Bishop confused? Or is Bob Bernick, Jr. (the Deseret News reporter who wrote this) confused? I don't know for sure. Bob Bernick, Jr. bbjr@desnews.com USSC ussc@oldguns.net Take some time this weekend to send postcards (or better yet, letters) to your legislators! Senators 319 State Capitol SLC, UT 84114-0111 Representatives 318 State Capitol SLC, UT 84114-0116 Remember, if you don't ACT, you will lose your rights!! LPUtah LPUtah -- This message sent via listserver "lputah@qsicorp.com" LPUtah -- All messages are the sole responsibility of the sender. LPUtah -- Support: Jim Elwell, email: elwell@inconnect.com LPUtah --------------4778D94ECA47B9D2E2EB8382-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: [Fwd: LPU: FW: LEG-ALERTS: Announcing UTGuns] Date: 24 Jan 2000 15:33:31 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B1E0CFE546FDF01DDD871640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------B1E0CFE546FDF01DDD871640 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: shbergeson@mail-slkc.uswest.net Received: (qmail 19993 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jan 2000 19:01:49 -0000 Received: from mail7.uswest.net (204.147.80.25) by pop.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 19:01:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 42001 invoked by alias); 24 Jan 2000 19:01:48 -0000 Delivered-To: shbergeson@uswest.net Received: (qmail 41981 invoked by uid 0); 24 Jan 2000 19:01:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.qsicorp.com) (207.173.106.20) by mail7.uswest.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 19:01:48 -0000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id MAA01418 for lputah-list; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:00:36 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.qsicorp.com: majordomo set sender to owner-lputah@mail.qsicorp.com using -f Received: from mail.inconnect.com (mail.inconnect.com [209.140.64.7]) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id MAA01415 for ; Mon, 24 Jan 2000 12:00:35 -0700 Message-Id: <200001241900.MAA01415@mail.qsicorp.com> Received: (qmail 1685 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2000 18:53:06 -0000 Received: from 1-157.dialup.inconnect.com. (HELO ?209.140.67.156?) (209.140.67.156) by mail with SMTP; 24 Jan 2000 18:53:06 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) CC: Bill Barton , Drew Chamberlain , Jim Kirkwood , Janalee Tobias , Mike Ridgway , Ken Olafson , Betty Christensen , Cal Andrus , Tom Boley Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lputah@qsicorp.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lputah@qsicorp.com FYI ---------- ANNOUNCING: UTGuns http://www.utguns.freeservers.com Do you have trouble finding your copies of leg-alerts when you need them? Would you like to have leg-alerts at work or school, but can't receive personal email? Do you have friends who need information on how to fight for their firearms (and other) rights? Would you like to have more of the information you need to keep track of bills, legislators, etc. in one convenient place? If so, WELCOME TO UTGuns, the new web site for legislative information! Archives of all leg-alerts! How to contact your legislators! How to talk to legislators! Analyses of bills! Links to other useful sites! UTGuns is at http://www.utguns.freeservers.com. Please stop by for a visit, and come back often! And tell your liberty-loving friends! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts ------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to leg-alerts-request@aros.net with the line unsubscribe leg-alerts in the body. LPUtah LPUtah -- This message sent via listserver "lputah@qsicorp.com" LPUtah -- All messages are the sole responsibility of the sender. LPUtah -- Support: Jim Elwell, email: elwell@inconnect.com LPUtah --------------B1E0CFE546FDF01DDD871640-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: LEG-ALERTS: Announcing UTGuns Date: 24 Jan 2000 15:47:45 -0700 all ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy --------- Forwarded message ---------- >From: righter@therighter.com >Reply-To: righter@therighter.com > >ANNOUNCING: UTGuns http://www.utguns.freeservers.com > >Do you have trouble finding your copies of leg-alerts when you need them? > >Would you like to have leg-alerts at work or school, but can't receive >personal email? > >Do you have friends who need information on how to fight for their firearms >(and other) rights? > >Would you like to have more of the information you need to keep track of >bills, legislators, etc. in one convenient place? > >If so, WELCOME TO UTGuns, the new web site for legislative information! > > Archives of all leg-alerts! > How to contact your legislators! > How to talk to legislators! > Analyses of bills! > Links to other useful sites! > >UTGuns is at http://www.utguns.freeservers.com. Please stop by for a >visit, and come back often! > >And tell your liberty-loving friends! > >Sarah >New poll! Does Utah need more gun control? > >Go to www.utguns.freeservers.com. >Scroll down. >Vote. > >It's not very accurate, but it's at least as good as Dan Jones! > >Moll > > >Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All >information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, >unless otherwise attributed. > >This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't >work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the >list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! > >Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no >changes are made and this message is left intact. > >To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: >majordomo@aros.net >In the body put: >subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts > >------------- >To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to leg-alerts-request@aros.net >with the line unsubscribe leg-alerts in the body. > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: LEG-ALERTS: 1/25 VICTORY!! (on one bill keep up work on SB 72) Date: 25 Jan 2000 15:04:58 -0700 all, ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy --------- Forwarded message ---------- NEWS FLASH! SB 79, Terry Spencer's first Revocation of Rights for Misdemeanors bill is DEAD! It has been filed and will NOT be discussed or voted on this session! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! This is NOT the time to let down your guard though. Sen. Spencer's SECOND Revocation of Rights for Misdemeanors bill, SB 72, is still very much alive. And more bills can still be filed! Now is the time to INCREASE the pressure. Keep calling Sen. Spencer, Sen. President Beattie, and your OWN Senator and Representative, and DEMAND that SB 72 be killed, and that NO GUN CONTROL legislation be passed! You're all doing a great job. Keep up the good work! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com. Please check out the new site! This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts ------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to leg-alerts-request@aros.net with the line unsubscribe leg-alerts in the body. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Re: Is SB79 dead? Date: 26 Jan 2000 08:56:43 -0700 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Is SB79 dead? Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 07:48:07 -0700 From: "Josiah" To all: It is alive again in the form of SB72 notice the lower number, this was their bill from the beginning and it is more subtle than SB79. Somebody smarter than me will fill you in on the particulars. Of course SB72 is sponsored by Terry "Gump" Spencer , his bills "are like a box of chocolates you never know what you're gonna get". Josiah ----- Original Message -----From: Paul Sellen Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 7:10 PMSubject: Is SB79 dead? NEWS FLASH! "SB 79, Terry Spencer's first Revocation of Rights for Misdemeanors bill is DEAD! It has been filed and will NOT be discussed or voted on this session! THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!" Bills have away of re-appearing. In some version Spencer's bill will re-appear, probably as part of the Republican Crime package. Reliable information has it that most of the misdemeanors on the list will be eliminate except the top four or five. These violent misdemeanors will carry a sentence for a period longer than 12 months. Perhaps 366 days plus. This will then bring the federal law into effect which provides that a person convicted of a crime with a penalty of longer than one year can never, ever posses a firearm again! No state funding increases, no increased enforcement problems by the state - the penalty denying a firearm would be enforced by the federal government not the state, etc. The state goes on its merry way and lets big brother do the dirty work! Although the misdemeanor bill was terrible this is worse. The misdemeanor bill did provide that after 3 years you could again have a firearm. The bill may also be retroactive! Being retroactive may be ex post facto and thereby unconstitutional but who knows how the courts will rule! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: 25 Jan - Backdoor Gun Control Date: 26 Jan 2000 10:15:07 -0700 ---------- ACTION ALERT Jan. 25, 2000 - Backdoor Gun Control BACK DOOR GUN CONTROL In a move that would make Ted Kennedy or Rosie O’Donnell proud, some legislators are floating around a proposal that would raise the punishment for the misdemeanors listed in S.B. 79 to more than a year in jail. Their proposal would have no language mentioning any loss of Second Amendment rights. However, under federal law, a person who has been convicted of a crime that is punishable by more than one year loses their right to keep and bear arms for life, even if no jail time is served. What the supporters of S.B. 79 hope to achieve with this proposal, is to make conviction of certain misdemeanor state crimes a lifetime ban on owning firearms by making persons ineligible under federal law. This way they can claim they are still pro-gun because their bill did not have any specific gun control wording in it. We realize this is getting old, but we need to have everyone contact the below listed legislators again and tell them that this alternative to S.B. 79 is worse than the original bill. We need to let them know that we see through this scheme and that such a proposal is totally unacceptable. WHAT YOU NEED TO DO TODAY As soon as possible, contact your individual state senator and state representative. If you do not know who yours are, call your county clerks office or check out the links on our web site at www.UtahShootingSports.org. Also, contact all of the legislators listed below. Tell them that you are aware that some legislators are floating a substitute proposal to S.B. 79 that would make certain misdemeanors punishable by more than one year. Tell them that such a law, even if it had no gun prohibitions in it, would make a person lose their firearm rights for life under federal law. Tell them that this proposal is worse than the original S.B. 79 and that you think it is nothing more than a sneaky way to achieve the aim of the original S.B. 79. Senator Terry Spencer, Chair 1110 N Kimberly Dr. Layton, Utah 84302 543-4450 Republican Senate fax 801-538-1414 tspencer@le.state.ut.us Senate President Lane Beattie 801-292-7406 (H) 801-538-4450 (Capitol) Republican Senate fax 801-538-1414 lbeattie@le.state.ut.us Speaker of the House Marty Stephens 801-731-5346 (H) Republican House fax 801-538-1908 mstephen@le.state.ut.us USSC LOBBYIST MISQUOTED Many gun owners were dismayed when they read a quote from USSC Lobbyist Rob Bishop in a recent Deseret News article. It stated that the USSC would like to see the legislature pass a law that would take away a persons gun rights after the conviction of a second misdemeanor. We want to set the record straight. Mr. Bishop was misquoted and the USSC is absolutely AGAINST ANY BILL THAT WOULD TAKE AWAY A PERSONS GUN RIGHTS FOR THE CONVICTION OF ANY MISDEMEANORS! MEET YOUR LEGISLATORS AT THE CAPITOL For those of you who would like to go above and beyond, we recommend visiting your legislator on capitol hill. Very few people ever take the time to visit their state senator and state representative at the capitol. If even a few people did this, it would make a strong impression. Visiting your legislator is easy. In the capitol lobby you go to a desk and fill out a form with your name and who you wish to speak to. The message is sent to the floor and when your legislator gets time, he will meet you in the lobby. If you do this, it is important to express your views in a firm but polite manner. Even if your representative happens to be the most anti-gun radical in the whole legislature, it is vitally important that you smile, be polite and thank them for listening to you. They may try and sway you against your position. Listen to them but do not get in to a heated argument. Just state your views. Dress appropriately. Your Sunday best would be preferable but casual attire in good taste will be fine. Avoid the T-shirts with the “Take my guns and I’ll blow your head off” slogans on them. Ricki Landers, a lobbyist for the disabled, and a very strong gun supporter is up on capitol hill almost every day. She is not a USSC member or a representative of USSC, but she has agreed to help walk gun owners through the process of meeting lawmakers. E-mail her to work out a time when she will be on capitol hill and you can meet with her. She can explain everything you need to know about talking to legislators. If your somewhat intimidated by going up to the capitol, don't be. Ricki can guide you through the whole process and make it very simple. Ricki Landers address is weelnricki@aol.com. Please make those contacts today. Please check your e-mail regularly things can change by the hour. Please forward this alert to as many people as possible. If this alert was forwarded to you by someone other than USSC you can sign up for alerts by sending an E-mail to addalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Please forward this e-mail to anyone you think may be interested. For anyone who does not have Internet access, the latest Utah legislative updates are available by telephone. The number is 801- 299-7230. Visit our Beattie at: www.UtahShootingSports.org for the latest news and membership applications. To be removed from the USSC E-Mail Action Alert list, send an e-mail to: dropalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Thanks for your time. Provided by the Utah Shooting Sports Council, Box 1975, Layton, UT 84041-6975 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: [Fwd: LPU: FW: War on Gun Owners] Date: 26 Jan 2000 16:26:11 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------914F9E22651AEE88976EAF41 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------914F9E22651AEE88976EAF41 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: shbergeson@mail-slkc.uswest.net Received: (qmail 61328 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 2000 23:06:26 -0000 Received: from mail2.uswest.net (204.147.80.18) by slkcpop2.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2000 23:06:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 20725 invoked by alias); 26 Jan 2000 23:06:22 -0000 Delivered-To: shbergeson@uswest.net Received: (qmail 20618 invoked by uid 0); 26 Jan 2000 23:06:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.qsicorp.com) (207.173.106.20) by mail2.uswest.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2000 23:06:20 -0000 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id QAA06317 for lputah-list; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:03:48 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: mail.qsicorp.com: majordomo set sender to owner-lputah@mail.qsicorp.com using -f Received: from mail.inconnect.com (mail.inconnect.com [209.140.64.7]) by mail.qsicorp.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id QAA06314 for ; Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:03:47 -0700 Message-Id: <200001262303.QAA06314@mail.qsicorp.com> Received: (qmail 12833 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2000 23:03:46 -0000 Received: from 1-90.dialup.inconnect.com. (HELO ?209.140.67.89?) (209.140.67.89) by mail with SMTP; 26 Jan 2000 23:03:46 -0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-lputah@qsicorp.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: lputah@qsicorp.com X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 More ammo ---------- The Constitutional right to keep and bear arms--as well as the rule of law itself--is under attack from gun control laws and lawsuits from the states and cities. Here are four documents available as PDF files on Heartland's Web site or by fax from PolicyFax that represent the best, most current thinking on the subject. You will need Adoble Acrobat Reader software to access these files. Click here http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html#reader to download your free Reader software. You can also receive these documents by fax by dialing 312/377-3000 from any touch-tone phone and using your PolicyFax account number. If you wish to stop receiving these messages, click here http://www.free-market.net/features/lists/ and choose Unsubscribe from the Heartland PolicyFax list. War on Gun Owners Answering Objections to Right-to-Carry Laws National Center for Policy Analysis November 1997, 2pp. Order document #1328302 http://www.heartland.org/pdf/13283b.pdf Gun Control Won't Stop the Madness The Independence Institute May 1999, 2pp. Order document #1328118 http://www.heartland.org/pdf/13281r.pdf Gun Lawsuits: Misfired Public Policy Pacific Research Institute April 1999, 2pp. Order document #1328126 http://www.heartland.org/pdf/13281z.pdf Lifting the Skirts of the "Progressive" Demonizers The Heartland Institute March 1999, 4pp. Order document #6313203 http://www.heartland.org/pdf/63132c.pdf --------------------------- A service of The Heartland Institute, an independent, nonprofit, and nonpartisan research organization. Please let us know if the service is useful to you, and how it can be improved. John R. La Plante PolicyFax Managing Editor The Heartland Institute http://www.heartland.org phone 312/377-4000 fax 312/377-5000 LPUtah LPUtah -- This message sent via listserver "lputah@qsicorp.com" LPUtah -- All messages are the sole responsibility of the sender. LPUtah -- Support: Jim Elwell, email: elwell@inconnect.com LPUtah --------------914F9E22651AEE88976EAF41-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 1/26 - BAD BILLS, COMMITTEE HEARINGS, etc. Date: 26 Jan 2000 20:07:12 -0700 -------- Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:35:38 -0700 From: righter@therighter.com To: leg-alerts@aros.net PLEASE FORWARD! Committee hearings TOMORROW 8 AM! SB 79's evil spawn - SB 153 Dave Jones's ban on private sales School surveys What you MUST DO! COMMITTEE HEARINGS THURSDAY 8 AM! Three bills will be heard in committee tomorrow morning at 8 AM. HB 161, Background checks for weapons purchases, A. L. Tyler (R) Position: OPPOSE The bill would make juvenile records available to BCI for background checks. This is an unconstitutional ex post facto (retroactive) law, and juveniles are not entitled to a jury trial. Rights should not be revoked unless full due process is accorded. HB 176, Weapons Restrictions for Mentally Ill People, G. Cox (D) Position: OPPOSE The bill would revoke rights FOR LIFE for persons involuntarily committed to a mental institution. (The bill does not say this, but Federal law does.) Utah does not provide due process for mental health commitments. This is also an unconstitutional ex post facto law. These bills will be heard at 8 AM, House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee, Rm 225 HB 199, Limits on Gun Manufacturer's Liability, M. Throckmorton (R) Position: SUPPORT This bill would protect firearms manufacturers against frivolous lawsuits. This bill will be heard at 8 AM, House Judiciary Committe, Rm 223 Please show up to support the one PRO-GUN bill this session! Full bill analyses, and links to bill text, can be found at http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/bills.html Only NEW bills will have full analyses in email alerts. MORE BAD BILLS - SPENCER AND JONES SB 153, Criminal Penalty Amendments, T. Spencer (R?) http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2000/htmdoc/sbillhtm/SB0153.htm POSITION: Strongest possible opposition Utah's own "Schumer" is at it yet again! Today he introduced SB 153, the evil spawn of SB 79, which he withdrew yesterday. SB 153, along with SB 72, would revoke firearms rights for MISDEMEANORS. Sen. Spencer would like us to believe that SB 153 is better than SB 79. But it's worse! The first bill proposed to revoke rights for misdemeanors for at least three years; the new bill would revoke rights for LIFE! SB 153 contains a long list of misdemeanors for which the penalty would be raised from a sentence of imprisonment for up to one year, to a sentence of imprisonment not to exceed 13 months. Under Federal Brady, a sentence of greater than one year results in a LIFETIME loss of firearms rights. Examples of offenses that Terry Spencer thinks should result in a LIFETIME loss of rights: Carrying a concealed firearm without a permit Spanking a child Possession of more than one ounce of marijuana (legal in many states!) Possession of any item that "could be" used in connection with illegal drugs, such as plastic bags, spoons, bowls, syringes, scales, etc. Possession of "too much" crystal iodine or cold pills Assaulting a "school employee or volunteer". (No, I don't condone assault. But why are school employees a protected class?) Calling or writing to legislators, if your communication causes "emotional distress" to a legislator or his family. Taking your own, legally prescribed, medication into a correctional facility. Any injury to a child that involves a "dangerous weapon", even if accidental. SB 153 is WORSE than SB 79!!! If these crimes are so horrible, they should be prosecuted as FELONIES. That way they would revoke not only gun rights, but ALL rights and privileges including right to vote, professional licenses, teaching certificates, etc. Spencer isn't interested in "fighting crime" - he just wants to revoke gun rights! HB 95 - Weapons Amendments, D. Jones, (D) http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2000/htmdoc/hbillhtm/HB0095.htm POSITION: Strongest possible opposition Perennial gun-grabber Dave Jones proposes to ban all private transactions of firearms unless a background check is conducted. While the bill appears to affect only gun shows and other "events" such as swap meets, my reading indicates that it could ban all private sales. At a minimum, all such events would be required to either have a BCI background check service set up, or have an FFL willing to do background checks for everyone at the event. This would effectively shut down smaller gun shows, and eliminate private transactions at other events. Enforcing this bill would require registration of ALL gun show attendees, which would completely shut down gun shows!! SB 37 - School surveys will shortly have its final vote in the Senate. Please ask any Senator you contact to OPPOSE this bill! WHAT YOU MUST DO! 1. Plan to attend the committee hearings tomorrow! Since they start at 8 AM, you can even show up before work! 2. CALL LEGISLATORS TONIGHT! Email may not reach them in time!) Support HB 199! House Judiciary A. Lamont Tyler, Chair 801-272-1218 Glenn L. Way, Vice Chair 801-798-2295 John Swallow 801-572-8201 Katherine Bryson 801-226-2061 Martin Stephens 801-731-5346 Bill Hickman 435-673-2671 Chad Bennion 801-281-1607 Greg Curtis 801-943-3091 Patrice Arent 801-272-1956 Neal Hendrickson 801-969-8920 Gary Cox 801-967-6790 All can be reached at 801-538-1029 Oppose HB 161, 176! House Law Enforcement Bud Bowman, Chair 435-586-8174 Jack A. Seitz, Vice Chair 435-789-0650 Loraine Pace 435-753-6154 Blake D. Chard, 801-773-7474 Carl Saunders, 801-476-1110 Nora Stephens, 801-825-3792 Susan Koehn, 801-296-1761 David L. Hogue, 801-254-1668 Perry L. Buckner, 801-964-8215 Duane Bourdeaux, 801-596-8784 Trisha Beck, 801-572-2325 All can be contacted at: 801-538-1029 (Some of these legislators from outside the SL area will not be at home, but you can leave messages!) 3. Keep calling and writing to Sen. Terry Spencer. Let him know you will NEVER support revocation of rights for MISDEMEANORS. If he wants to revoke rights, he should make the crimes FELONIES and revoke ALL rights and privileges! Sen. Terry Spencer 319 State Capitol SLC, UT 84114-0111 801-543-4450 home 801-538-1414 fax 801-538-1035 Capitol - make sure you ask that the message be hand delivered! 4. Call Senate President Lane Beattie and insist that he OPPOSE SB 72 and 153 and do everything possible to KILL them! Sen. Lane Beattie 319 State Capitol SLC, UT 84114-0111 801-292-7406 home 801-538-1400 Capitol 801-538-1414 fax 5. Call Speaker of the House Marty Stephens. Insist that he OPPOSE revocation of rights for misdemeanors! This is a question of principle, not bill language! And remember to ask him to SUPPORT HB 199! Rep. Marty Stephens 318 State Capitol SLC, UT 84114-0116 801-731-5346 (home) 801-538-1930 (work) 801-538-1908 (fax) 6. KEEP CALLING AND WRITING TO YOUR OWN LEGISLATORS!! 7. Forward this alert to at least three people! Thanks! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed.Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com. Please check out the new site!This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks!Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact.To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to:majordomo@aros.netIn the body put:subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: UTGuns LEG-ALERTS 1/27: Today's activities Date: 27 Jan 2000 20:13:35 -0700 all ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy --------- Forwarded message ---------- A VERY BIG THANK-YOU to all of you who showed up for committee hearings today! Special kudos to those who testified! Report on today's events, Thursday, 1/27/99 HB 161 was heard by the House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee today. UTGuns testified and OPPOSED this bill which would revoke firearms rights for those adjudicated delinquent as juveniles for up to 10 years. (See http://www.utguns.freeservers.com for bill analyses of these bills.) Despite our best efforts, this bill passed with only one NO vote by Rep. Hogue. This bill will now go to the full House for a vote. HB 176S2 was heard by the same committee. This bill would revoke firearms rights FOR LIFE for anyone involuntarily committed to a mental hospital - even if the commitment was false, or the person recovered. UTGuns testified and OPPOSED this bill. Because of the concerns raised by UTGuns, HB 176S2 was held in committee and was NOT passed. It will be voted on at some time in the future, probably next week. HB 199 was heard by the House Judiciary Committee. UTGuns strongly SUPPORTS this bill which would protect gun manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits. This bill passed committee and subsequently passed 2nd reading in the full House. It is expected to be passed (3rd reading) by the full House shortly, and will then go to the Senate. HB 173, Forfeiture Relating to Sexual Offenses Against Children was also heard by the House Law Enforcement Committee and I apologize for not getting an alert to you sooner. (This is not a firearms bill, but all gun owners should be familiar with forfeiture!) This bill would allow the seizure of computer equipment used to transmit child pornography even if the owner committed NO crime! In order to get his property back, the owner would have to file a claim at his own expense and prove he was not guilty! This turns our system of justice where a person is innocent until proven guilty on its head! And seizure of property violates the Fourth Amendment. Future alerts will cover asset forfeiture in more depth. This bill passed the committee with only one NO vote, again from Rep. Hogue. What were other gun rights organization doing while this was going on? USSC and the NRA both testified IN FAVOR of HB 161 and 176S2!! Both groups are apparently too afraid of getting "bad press" to stand up for our Constitution and our system of due process and jury trials! They seem to think that gun owners can protect their rights by infringing on the rights of others. They're WRONG! Our Bill of Rights is a brilliantly integrated system of rights that stand or fall together. Either all people have rights, or no one will have any. To paraphrase Pastor Niemoller: First they came for the juvenile delinquents and I was silent because I wasn't a juvenile delinquent, Then they came for the drug users and I was silent because I didn't use drugs. Then they came for the mentally ill and I was silent because I didn't think I was mentally ill, Then they came for the gun owners and there was no one left to speak for me. UTGuns supports the entire Constitution and Bill of Rights. We will NEVER support the infringement of anyone's inalienable rights, or the denial of due process, for any reason. We can't fight all battles on all fronts, but we will never knowingly do harm to anyone's rights or freedom. And where was GOUtah!? As far as I can tell, they simply weren't there. The Republican "Crime Package" will be revealed tomorrow morning. According to Speaker of the House Marty Stephens, neither Sen. Terry Spencer's nor Sen. Lane Beattie's gun control bills will be included. This is a step in the right direction, although we don't know what WILL be included. Please make sure Marty knows that support for ANY gun control is unacceptable! Rep. Marty Stephens 318 State Capitol SLC, UT 84114-0116 801-731-5346 (home) 801-538-1930 (work) 801-538-1908 (fax) mstephen@le.state.ut.us How you can help! 1. Contact members of the House Law Enforcement Committee. Ask them to OPPOSE HB 161. Remind them that all people are entitled to due process - even juveniles and those labeled mentally ill. Explain that permanent revocation of rights for civil commitment is unacceptable because there is no due process for civil commitment in Utah. And no matter what the bill says, Federal Brady would make such revocations permanent! Contact info is in yesterday's alert, http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/legalerts012600.html. Make sure they know that USSC and the NRA do not speak for you, or gun owners in general! 2. Contact your OWN representative and insist that s/he oppose both HB 161 and HB 176S2 (if it gets that far!) And make sure you ask him/her to SUPPORT HB 199! 3. Contact Sen. President Lane Beattie and ask why Senate Republicans are sponsoring more gun control bills than the Democrats! 4. Show up in force for the SB 72 hearings tomorrow! Of course we're all paranoid. No one is talking about revoking OUR firearms rights. No one would dream of confiscating guns, banning guns, or anything other than "reasonable" gun control. Yeah, right! See http://www.gunscholar.org/gunban.htm (They forgot Mike Leavitt, Lane Beattie, Terry Spencer, Dave Jones, and Millie Peterson!) Thanks again for your WONDERFUL support! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com. Please check out the new site! This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts ------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to leg-alerts-request@aros.net with the line unsubscribe leg-alerts in the body. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Report on Thursday Date: 28 Jan 2000 11:27:09 -0700 ---------- A VERY BIG THANK-YOU to all of you who showed up for committee hearings today! Special kudos to those who testified! Report on today's events, Thursday, 1/27/99 HB 161 was heard by the House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee today. UTGuns testified and OPPOSED this bill which would revoke firearms rights for those adjudicated delinquent as juveniles for up to 10 years. (See http://www.utguns.freeservers.com for bill analyses of these bills.) Despite our best efforts, this bill passed with only one NO vote by Rep. Hogue. This bill will now go to the full House for a vote. HB 176S2 was heard by the same committee. This bill would revoke firearms rights FOR LIFE for anyone involuntarily committed to a mental hospital - even if the commitment was false, or the person recovered. UTGuns testified and OPPOSED this bill. Because of the concerns raised by UTGuns, HB 176S2 was held in committee and was NOT passed. It will be voted on at some time in the future, probably next week. HB 199 was heard by the House Judiciary Committee. UTGuns strongly SUPPORTS this bill which would protect gun manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits. This bill passed committee and subsequently passed 2nd reading in the full House. It is expected to be passed (3rd reading) by the full House shortly, and will then go to the Senate. HB 173, Forfeiture Relating to Sexual Offenses Against Children was also heard by the House Law Enforcement Committee and I apologize for not getting an alert to you sooner. (This is not a firearms bill, but all gun owners should be familiar with forfeiture!) This bill would allow the seizure of computer equipment used to transmit child pornography even if the owner committed NO crime! In order to get his property back, the owner would have to file a claim at his own expense and prove he was not guilty! This turns our system of justice where a person is innocent until proven guilty on its head! And seizure of property violates the Fourth Amendment. Future alerts will cover asset forfeiture in more depth. This bill passed the committee with only one NO vote, again from Rep. Hogue. What were other gun rights organization doing while this was going on? USSC and the NRA both testified IN FAVOR of HB 161 and 176S2!! Both groups are apparently too afraid of getting "bad press" to stand up for our Constitution and our system of due process and jury trials! They seem to think that gun owners can protect their rights by infringing on the rights of others. They're WRONG! Our Bill of Rights is a brilliantly integrated system of rights that stand or fall together. Either all people have rights, or no one will have any. To paraphrase Pastor Niemoller: First they came for the juvenile delinquents and I was silent because I wasn't a juvenile delinquent, Then they came for the drug users and I was silent because I didn't use drugs. Then they came for the mentally ill and I was silent because I didn't think I was mentally ill. Then they came for the gun owners and there was no one left to speak for me. UTGuns supports the entire Constitution and Bill of Rights. We will NEVER support the infringement of anyone's inalienable rights, or the denial of due process, for any reason. We can't fight all battles on all fronts, but we will never knowingly do harm to anyone's rights or freedom. The Republican "Crime Package" will be revealed tomorrow morning. According to Speaker of the House Marty Stephens, neither Sen. Terry Spencer's nor Sen. Lane Beattie's gun control bills will be included. This is a step in the right direction, although we don't know what WILL be included. Please make sure Marty knows that support for ANY gun control is unacceptable! Rep. Marty Stephens 318 State Capitol SLC, UT 84114-0116 801-731-5346 (home) 801-538-1930 (work) 801-538-1908 (fax) mstephen@le.state.ut.us How you can help! 1. Contact members of the House Law Enforcement Committee. Ask them to OPPOSE HB 161. Remind them that all people are entitled to due process --- even juveniles and those labeled mentally ill. Explain that permanent revocation of rights for civil commitment is unacceptable because there is no due process for civil commitment in Utah. And no matter what the bill says, Federal Brady would make such revocations permanent! Contact info is in yesterday's alert, http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/legalerts012600.html. Make sure they know that USSC and the NRA do not speak for you, or gun owners in general! 2. Contact your OWN representative and insist that s/he oppose both HB 161 and HB 176S2 (if it gets that far!) And make sure you ask him/her to SUPPORT HB 199! 3. Contact Sen. President Lane Beattie and ask why Senate Republicans are sponsoring more gun control bills than the Democrats! 4. Show up in force for the SB 72 hearings tomorrow! Of course we're all paranoid. No one is talking about revoking OUR firearms rights. No one would dream of confiscating guns, banning guns, or anything other than "reasonable" gun control. Yeah, right! See http://www.gunscholar.org/gunban.htm (They forgot Mike Leavitt, Lane Beattie, Terry Spencer, Dave Jones, and Millie Peterson!) Thanks again for your WONDERFUL support! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com. Please check out the new site! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: UTGuns LEG-ALERTS 1/27 - URGENT! SB 72 FRIDAY AM! Date: 28 Jan 2000 11:40:23 -0700 ---------BEGIN ALERT MESSAGE--------- PLEASE FORWARD!! URGENT! Sen. Terry "Terror" Spencer's SB 72 will be heard by the Senate Judiciary Committee FRIDAY, 8 AM, Rm 416! SB 72 contains MANY offensive provisions to revoke firearms rights: 1. SB 72 would revoke firearms rights FOR LIFE for anyone who commits a drug-related MISDEMEANOR! This includes such trivial, non-violent, offenses as taking your OWN medication out of the bottle and carrying it in a pocket, possession of small amounts of marijuana - even for medical use, and possession of so-called "drug paraphernalia" (baggies, powdered sugar). This is just a sneaky way to break the centuries-old legal principle that rights may not be revoked except for a felony. If this passes, soon all misdemeanors will be grounds for revocation of firearms rights. 2. SB 72 would revoke rights for those adjudicated delinquent as a juvenile for a felony-level offense - without a jury trial - for up to ten years. 3. SB 72 would revoke firearms rights FOR LIFE for anyone involuntarily committed to a mental hospital - even if the person was wrongfully committed, or has recovered completely. There is no due process for commitments! 4. SB 72 would revoke firearms rights FOR LIFE for anyone dishonorably discharged from the military - even those discharged for principled stances regarding serving in UN forces, unsafe vaccines, etc. 5. SB 72 is an UNCONSTITUTIONAL ex post facto (retroactive) bill! Any crime that is serious enough to warrant revocation of rights MUST BE tried as a FELONY and result in loss of all rights, not just gun rights! If SB 72 passes committee, Sen. Spencer will take it as support for his even worse SB 153, which revokes firearms rights for life for a long laundry list of misdemeanors! IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that we show Sen. Spencer (and the members of the Judiciary Committee!) that revocation of rights for misdemeanor offenses is COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE and that GUN OWNERS WILL NOT ROLL OVER FOR THIS! PLEASE PLAN TO ATTEND THE COMMITTEE HEARING FRIDAY! We need to pack the room and the hallway outside! PLEASE CALL EACH MEMBER OF THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE TONIGHT. Let them know you will not stand for revocation of rights for misdemeanors! Sen. Terry R. Spencer, Chair 801-543-4450 Sen. Mike Dmitrich 435-637-0426 Sen. Parley Hellewell 801-226-3034 Sen. Lyle W. Hillyard 435-753-0043 Sen. Pete Suazo 801-521-3751 Sen. John L. Valentine 801-224-1693 Email: tspencer@le.state.ut.us, mdmitric@le.state.ut.us, phellewe@le.state.ut.us, lhillyar@le.state.ut.us, psuazo@le.state.ut.us, jvalenti@le.state.ut.us My report on today's activities on the Hill will follow. Today was the deadline for "numbering" (filing) bill titles, so there are many new bills. Full report may have to wait until the weekend. You can see for yourself at www.le.state.ut.us. For those of you who are GOA (Gun Owners of America) members... I got a WONDERFUL packet from Larry Pratt, Executive Director of GOA today. He does a great job of exposing Mike Leavitt and the liberal Republicans' gun grabbing, rights revoking agenda. But more important, it contains a packet of postcards to send to legislators. It is VERY important that you make sure EVERY single postcard gets mailed! In fact, consider writing letters to your legislators and give the postcards to friends or relatives to sign. (Be nice and include a stamp!) This is one of the MOST EFFECTIVE ways to let legislators know that they must OPPOSE all gun control! It's quick, easy, and it WORKS! Send these to: Your Representative and Senator Speaker of the House Marty Stephens Senate President Lane Beattie (As many other legislators as you want!) If you're not a member of GOA, please consider joining the ONLY NO-COMPROMISE NATIONAL GUN RIGHTS ORGANIZATION! Go to http://www.gunowners.org And if you didn't get postcards, buy some blank ones at the post office, write a short message, and send them to legislators. Remember, if you don't ACT NOW, your gun rights may soon be history! Thanks to all of you who have already called, written or visited with legislators. Keep up the good work! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com. Please check out the new site! This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 1/29: Votes, Hearings Date: 29 Jan 2000 19:55:48 -0700 ---------- BILL UPDATES (See http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/bills SB 37 - School Surveys (Montgomery) has passed the Senate, and is now in the House. No voting list is yet available. Please ask YOUR OWN Representative to OPPOSE this bill. HB 199 - Prohibition of Gun Suits (Throckmorton) Victory in the House! This bill passed the House and is now in the Senate. Those voting AGAINST this good and necessary bill were: Representatives S. Allen Arent Baca Beck Becker Bigelow Biskupski Bourdeaux Bradshaw Buffmire Carlson G. Cox Fife Frandsen Goodfellow Hansen Hendrickson Jones Morgan Siddoway G. Snow Tyler (voting list provided by Code-Co, http://www.code-co.com/ ) If your Representative is on this list, please let him/her know that you don't appreciate the ANTI-GUN vote, and that s/he has permanently lost your vote. Please ask YOUR SENATOR to SUPPORT HB 199. COMMITTEE HEARINGS (Bill analyses at http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/bills) MONDAY JAN. 31 8 AM - House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee, Rm. 225 HB 176S2 - Weapons Restriction for Mentally Ill (G. Cox) - Please ask committee members to approve this bill ONLY if it is amended to provide that rights are revoked only during a CURRENT order of civil commitment (not for life!), and for those pleading guilty but mentally ill for FELONY offenses (no revocation of rights for misdemeanors!) Members are: Bud Bowman, Chair 435-586-8174 Jack A. Seitz, Vice Chair 435-789-0650 Loraine Pace 435-753-6154 Blake D. Chard, 801-773-7474 Carl Saunders, 801-476-1110 Nora Stephens, 801-825-3792 Susan Koehn, 801-296-1761 David L. Hogue, 801-254-1668 Perry L. Buckner, 801-964-8215 Duane Bourdeaux, 801-596-8784 Trisha Beck, 801-572-2325 All can be contacted at: 801-538-1029 (Some of these legislators from outside the SL area will not be at home, but you can leave messages!) 8 AM House Judiciary Committee Rm. 223 HB 245 - Safety in Public Schools (Wright) Please ask committee members to AMEND this bill so that its provisions apply to ALL violent crimes committed in schools, and not just "gun-related offenses". Committee members are: A. Lamont Tyler, Chair 801-272-1218 Glenn L. Way, Vice Chair 801-798-2295 John Swallow 801-572-8201 Katherine Bryson 801-226-2061 Martin Stephens 801-731-5346 Bill Hickman 435-673-2671 Chad Bennion 801-281-1607 Greg Curtis 801-943-3091 Patrice Arent 801-272-1956 Neal Hendrickson 801-969-8920 Gary Cox 801-967-6790 TUESDAY FEB. 1 3 PM - House Education Committee, Rm. 303 HB 248 - Gun Ban Schools, Churches, Residences (Jones) - PLEASE PLAN TO ATTEND! Please call committee members and ask them to OPPOSE HB 248. Concealed carry permittees are NOT a problem. Committee members are: Lloyd Frandsen, Chair lfrandse@le.state.ut.us 801-254-4940 Ron Bigelow, Vice Chair, rbigelow@le.state.ut.us 801-968-4188 Jeff Alexander, jalexand@le.state.ut.us 801-375-1092 Duane Bourdeaux, dbourdea@le.state.ut.us 801-596-8784 Judy Ann Buffmire, jbuffmir@le.state.ut.us 801-266-1862 Fred J. Fife, III, ffife@le.state.ut.us, 801-521-7383 David L. Hogue, dhogue@le.state.ut.us, 801-254-1668 Bradley T. Johnson, bjohnson@le.state.ut.us 435-529-3227 Keele Johnson, kjohnson@le.state.ut.us 435-678-2077 Tammy J. Rowan, trowan@le.state.ut.us 801-224-6141 LaWanna Shurtliff, lshurtli@le.state.ut.us 801-479-0289, 801-391-7387 Matt Throckmorton, mthrockm@le.state.ut.us 801-489-8342 Bill Wright, wwright@le.state.ut.us 801-667-3333 It's especially important to call Rep. Frandsen! No committee agendas are available for later in the week. Stay tuned! Thanks, as always, for your support! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com . Please check out the new site! This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: Re: LEG-ALERTS 1/27 - Today's events, upcoming events, VOLUNTEERS NEEDED! Date: 30 Jan 2000 18:49:55 -0700 all ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy --------- Forwarded message ---------- > PLEASE FORWARD!! > > 1. Today's events - SB 72 > 2. The Much-Awaited Crime Package > 3. New bills > 4. What you must do! > 5. Upcoming events - VOLUNTEERS NEEDED! > > > TODAY'S EVENTS - SB 72 > > Spencer is as slick as ever. > It's 13 pages long, and we were given barely a few minutes to >read it. > (This is a ploy to make sure the public has no say when they >actually vote, and that we don't know how they vote.) > """" of a controlled substance or metabolite in their system >was added. > Testifying in favor of the bill was Prosecutor Paul Boyden. > (We'll know for sure when we see the bill!) > 1. Changing the commitment language to restrict rights for only >those under a CURRENT order of commitment. > """" (No revocation of rights for misdemeanors.) > (If someone is guilty of a felony, he's already prohibited from >possessing a gun, and someone guilty of a misdemeanor shouldn't lose his >rights.) > "" And would this mean the police would demand drug testing for >anyone found carrying a gun?) > "" "". > (They do still have to use the NICS federal background check >though.) > And, of course, we don't yet know what the bill will actually say! > > ACTION: > Contact Sen. Spencer and request that the public be given the opportunity >to comment on the final version of the bill. > > > THE MUCH AWAITED CRIME PACKAGE > > "" > "" "" "" "" mandatory storage requirement, or proficiency tests >for concealed carry permits. > But don't relax - most of those gun control bills are still on >the table, and horrible new legislation can be introduced right up until a >few days before the end of the session. > "", see: http://www.desnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,150009708,00.html >(No, I'm not partial, but the Trib doesn't have its article up yet!) > > > NEW BILLS > > HB 91, Individual Income Tax Credit for a Residential Security Container - >Chad E. Bennion (R) > http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2000/htmdoc/sbillhtm/SB0091.htm > > "" bill would provide an income tax credit of up to $150 for the >purchase of a safe. > > "" propaganda. > >> mandatory storage at all times > (It IS their business to keep people from breaking into homes >and stealing things, but they don't want to admit that part!) > Is this a proper role for Republicans and/or Conservatives? > Isn't this just another back door approach to registration? > So it's up to us to explain why a tax credit for gun safes is >not a sound idea. > > SB 161, Restrictions on Weapons - Schools, L. Beattie (?R) > http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2000/htmdoc/sbillhtm/SB0161.htm > POSITION: Strongest possible opposition > Which is probably the point. > > SB 162, Restrictions on Weapons, Churches, L. Beattie (?R) > http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2000/bills/sbillint/SB0162.htm > POSITION: Strongest possible opposition > > The criminals sure won't! > > "" Or maybe folks could just announce their sins as they enter. > > > "". > > > WHAT YOU MUST DO! > > Insist that he withdraw these bills! > Sen. Lane Beattie > 319 State Capitol > SLC, UT 84114-0111 > 801-292-7406 home > 801-538-1400 Capitol > 801-538-1414 fax > > Remind him that we're counting on him to make sure NO gun control bills pass. > Rep. Marty Stephens > 318 State Capitol > SLC, UT 84114-0116 > 801-731-5346 (home) > 801-538-1930 (work) > 801-538-1908 (fax) > mstephen@le.state.ut.us > > Offer to suggest ideas for some legislation that will really benefit >gun owners - but only if this bill dies! > Chad Bennion 801-281-1607 > > Dave Jones 801-582-8247 > Greg Curtis 801-943-3091 > 435-676-2214 > Bradley T. Johnson 435-529-3227 > Bill Wright 801-667-3333 > Brad King 435-637-7955 > Kory Holdaway 801-964-6360 > All can be reached at 801-538-1029 > > 4. Call or write your OWN Senator and Representative! > > > UPCOMING EVENTS > Committee hearings > Monday Jan. 31 > 8 AM - HB 176S2 Weapons Restrictions for Mentally Ill > 8 AM - HB 245 Improving safety in public schools > > Tuesday Feb. 1 > 3 PM - HB 248 - Ban on guns in schools, churches, residences > > Priority is HB 248, but whatever you can do is great! > Please read the bill analyses and try to contact committee members over >the weekend to express your opposition to these bills. > > VOLUNTEERS NEEDED! > Email or call 801-566-1067. > Thanks again to those of you who attended committee hearings this week! > > 32 days left! > > Sarah > > > All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the >author, unless otherwise attributed. > Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com >Please check out the new site! > Thanks! > Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no >changes are made and this message is left intact. > To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: >majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: ALERT--URGENT WAGC press conference needs supporters Monday AM Date: 30 Jan 2000 19:46:25 -0700 Sorry for the late notice, but please attend if possible. Women Against Gun Control founder and director Janalee Tobias has scheduled a press conference to combat anti-gun legislation and present signed pro-gun petitions to law makers. The press conference is scheduled for Monday, January 31, 2000, at 9:00 A.M on the House Chamber steps at the Utah State Capital rotunda. Please attend if at all possible. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: URGENT ACTION ALERT - Jan. 31 2000 - Date: 31 Jan 2000 17:32:57 -0700 The hearing is scheduled for Tuesday, February 1, 3:00 pm in room 303 at the capital. See the message below for legislators to contact tonight--especially if you will be uable to attend the hearing tomorrow. Let the legislators know how this bill will affect YOU as parent, educator, volunteer in school, whatever. Put a real face on how this bill will hurt YOU. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy --------- Forwarded message ---------- URGENT ACTION ALERT - Jan. 31 2000 - (Ban on legal self defense guns in schools, churches, and private residences- HB 248) House Bill 248 - GUN BAN IN SCHOOL, CHURCHES, AND RESIDENCES, sponsored by anti-gun politician Dave Jones will be voted on by the House Education Committee on TUESDAY FEBRUARY 1ST at 3:00PM in room 303 of the state capitol. IT IS URGENT THAT YOU CONTACT EVERY COMMITTEE MEMBER LISTED BELOW AND IF AT ALL POSSIBLE ATTEND THE HEARING. It looks like some usually pro-gun legislators are getting nervous and may pass this totally unacceptable bill. ** This bill is the keystone of efforts to dismantle legal carrying of concealed weapons for self defense by people with permits. If it passes, steps to ban legal guns in more places will follow. ** It is not a crime bill and does nothing to impose restrictions or penalties on anyone except pe ople who have obeyed the law and gotten permits for legal self defense. ** It is already illegal for anyone to carry a concealed weapon in a school, church or anywhere el se, except law enforcement officers and carefully screened permit holders. ** Polls showing huge support for "ban guns in schools" asked only about a vague concept, not a sp ecific bill, and do not distinguish between criminals, students, police, or permit holders with legal guns. Most people have no idea what gun laws already control concealed weapons. They are in favor of laws that already exist. ** Permit holders ARE NOT A PROBLEM. PTA allegations of many scary incidents in Utah schools invo lving permit holders ARE NOT TRUE! Where's the proof? ** Even after the Columbine tragedy, the Colorado legislature is refusing to pass restrictions on legal concealed carry in their schools. ** Churches already have authority to keep legal self defense guns out. No new laws are required on that subject. ** Private residence owners can already keep legal self defense guns out. No new laws are needed on that subject. Private residences will be off limits to anyone with a legally carried self defense gun, or any other gun, unless the get written permission first. If a permit holder takes their kids out selling stuff for a school project, they will have to tell every nosey neighbor they carry a gun. ** This bad bill will prevent educators working late from defending themselves while going to thei r cars. (Yes, many educators DO have concealed carry permits!!) ** It will make anyone attending evening classes held in public school facilities a defenseless ta rget for stalkers, rapists, and other attackers. ** This bad bill only makes the good guys get permission, not criminals. ** Judges are exempt from the school ban, and private security guards exempt from the residence ba n- why should some elite classes be able to protect themselves and other law abiding citizens be left defenseless? IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE THIS HEARING PACKED WITH GUN OWNERS! Please make every effort to make it t o the capitol by 3:00 PM Tuesday, room 303. We do not encourage people to take time off from work to attend hearings unles s it is important. This one is! Please dress appropriately and be polite. Right now it looks like there are 6 votes against the bill, 5 in favor and 2 undecided. It is very important to kill this bill in committee. If HB 248 gets out of committee it will be a lot harder to defeat later. PLEASE CONTACT ALL OF THESE COMMITTEE MEMBERS AND ASK THEM TO VOTE AGAINST HOUSE BILL 248. Call or E-mail as soon as possible. Be polite. (Check out http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/talk.html for tips on speaking with politic ians.) Lloyd Frandsen, Chair lfrandse@le.state.ut.us 801-254-4940 Ron Bigelow, Vice Chair, rbigelow@le.state.ut.us 801-968-4188 Jeff Alexander, jalexand@le.state.ut.us 801-375-1092 Duane Bourdeaux, dbourdea@le.state.ut.us 801-596-8784 Judy Ann Buffmire, jbuffmir@le.state.ut.us 801-266-1862 Fred J. Fife, III, ffife@le.state.ut.us, 801-521-7383 David L. Hogue, dhogue@le.state.ut.us, 801-254-1668 Bradley T. Johnson, bjohnson@le.state.ut.us 435-529-3227 Keele Johnson, kjohnson@le.state.ut.us 435-678-2077 Tammy J. Rowan, trowan@le.state.ut.us 801-224-6141 LaWanna Shurtliff, lshurtli@le.state.ut.us 801-479-0289, 801-391-7387 Matt Throckmorton, mthrockm@le.state.ut.us 801-489-8342 Bill Wright, wwright@le.state.ut.us 801-667-3333 Your efforts are paying off, but the fight to protect your rights continues. Read the Deseret News comments on your efforts at http://www.desnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,150010068,00.html -