From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: URGENT ACTION ALERT - Jan. 31 2000 - Date: 01 Nov 2000 09:35:12 -0700 URGENT ACTION ALERT - Jan. 31 2000 - (Ban on legal self defense guns in schools, churches, and private residences- HB 248) House Bill 248 - GUN BAN IN SCHOOL, CHURCHES, AND RESIDENCES, sponsored by anti-gun politician Dave Jones will be voted on by the House Education Committee on TUESDAY FEBRUARY 1ST at 3:00PM in room 303 of the state capitol. IT IS URGENT THAT YOU CONTACT EVERY COMMITTEE MEMBER LISTED BELOW AND IF AT ALL POSSIBLE ATTEND THE HEARING. It looks like some usually pro-gun legislators are getting nervous and may pass this totally unacceptable bill. ** This bill is the keystone of efforts to dismantle legal carrying of concealed weapons for self defense by people with permits. If it passes, steps to ban legal guns in more places will follow. ** It is not a crime bill and does nothing to impose restrictions or penalties on anyone except people who have obeyed the law and gotten permits for legal self defense. ** It is already illegal for anyone to carry a concealed weapon in a school, church or anywhere else, except law enforcement officers and carefully screened permit holders. ** Polls showing huge support for "ban guns in schools" asked only about a vague concept, not a specific bill, and do not distinguish between criminals, students, police, or permit holders with legal guns. Most people have no idea what gun laws already control concealed weapons. They are in favor of laws that already exist. ** Permit holders ARE NOT A PROBLEM. PTA allegations of many scary incidents in Utah schools involving permit holders ARE NOT TRUE! Where's the proof? ** Even after the Columbine tragedy, the Colorado legislature is refusing to pass restrictions on legal concealed carry in their schools. ** Churches already have authority to keep legal self defense guns out. No new laws are required on that subject. ** Private residence owners can already keep legal self defense guns out. No new laws are needed on that subject. Private residences will be off limits to anyone with a legally carried self defense gun, or any other gun, unless they get written permission first. If a permit holder takes their kids out selling stuff for a school project, they will have to tell every nosey neighbor they carry a gun. ** This bad bill will prevent educators working late from defending themselves while going to their cars. (Yes, many educators DO have concealed carry permits!!) ** It will make anyone attending evening classes held in public school facilities a defenseless target for stalkers, rapists, and other attackers. ** This bad bill only makes the good guys get permission, not criminals. ** Judges are exempt from the school ban, and private security guards exempt from the residence ban- why should some elite classes be able to protect themselves and other law abiding citizens be left defenseless? IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE THIS HEARING PACKED WITH GUN OWNERS! Please make every effort to make it to the capitol by 3:00 PM Tuesday, room 303. We do not encourage people to take time off from work to attend hearings unless it is important. This one is! Please dress appropriately and be polite. Right now it looks like there are 6 votes against the bill, 5 in favor and 2 undecided. It is very important to kill this bill in committee. If HB 248 gets out of committee it will be a lot harder to defeat later. PLEASE CONTACT ALL OF THESE COMMITTEE MEMBERS AND ASK THEM TO VOTE AGAINST HOUSE BILL 248. Call or E-mail as soon as possible. Be polite. (Check out http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/talk.html for tips on speaking with politicians.) Lloyd Frandsen, Chair lfrandse@le.state.ut.us 801-254-4940 Ron Bigelow, Vice Chair, rbigelow@le.state.ut.us 801-968-4188 Jeff Alexander, jalexand@le.state.ut.us 801-375-1092 Duane Bourdeaux, dbourdea@le.state.ut.us 801-596-8784 Judy Ann Buffmire, jbuffmir@le.state.ut.us 801-266-1862 Fred J. Fife, III, ffife@le.state.ut.us, 801-521-7383 David L. Hogue, dhogue@le.state.ut.us, 801-254-1668 Bradley T. Johnson, bjohnson@le.state.ut.us 435-529-3227 Keele Johnson, kjohnson@le.state.ut.us 435-678-2077 Tammy J. Rowan, trowan@le.state.ut.us 801-224-6141 LaWanna Shurtliff, lshurtli@le.state.ut.us 801-479-0289, 801-391-7387 Matt Throckmorton, mthrockm@le.state.ut.us 801-489-8342 Bill Wright, wwright@le.state.ut.us 801-667-3333 Your efforts are paying off, but the fight to protect your rights continues. Read the Deseret News comments on your efforts at http://www.desnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,150010068,00.html If this alert was forwarded to you by someone other than USSC you can sign up for alerts by sending an E-mail to addalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Please forward this e-mail to anyone you think may be interested. For anyone who does not have Internet access, the latest Utah legislative updates are available by telephone. The number is 801-299-7230. Visit our web-site at: http://www.UtahShootingSports.org for the latest news and membership applications. To be removed from the USSC E-Mail Action Alert list, send an e-mail to: dropalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Thanks for your time. Provided by the Utah Shooting Sports Council, Box 1975, Layton, UT 84041-6975 ------- End of forwarded message ------- ------------------------------ Richard B. Pyne, KB7RMU rpyne@kinfolk.org http://pyne.kinfolk.org/rbp2 _______________________________________________ RSCC mailing list - RSCC@BalancedCenter.org http://BalancedCenter.org/mailman/listinfo/rscc - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 1/31 - GUN BAN HEARING TUESDAY!! Date: 01 Feb 2000 09:49:38 -0700 ---------- Committee hearings Bill update What you must do COMMITTEE HEARINGS Once again "Titan" of gun control, Rep. David Jones, is trying to "Ram" gun control down our throats! HB 248, Firearms Restrictions - Houses of Worship, Residences and Schools, (Jones), would prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by those with concealed carry permits in schools (including private schools), houses of worship, and private residences, unless the person carrying obtains permission from the owner or other authorized person. This bill would endanger thousands of lives by creating "victim zones" where criminals could attack children, church members, and others without any fear of resistance. It would also endanger the many people who enter private residences for business purposes. And since the bill only affects law-abiding people with concealed carry permits, it will do NOTHING to stop criminals! IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU ATTEND THIS HEARING! House Education Committee, 3 PM, Rm. 303 SB 72Sub1 - Restricted persons, (Spencer) Senate Judiciary Committee, 3 PM, Rm 416 At the last committee hearing, Sen. Spencer agreed to remove most of the offensive provisions of this bill. Now we'll find out if he really means it! BILL UPDATES - some small victories for freedom! HB 26 - Impounding Amendments (Goodfellow) This bill was substituted in committee today. The original bill would have allowed the police to impound a vehicle if the driver did not have current proof of insurance - even if the vehicle really was insured! The substitute bill eliminates this language and allows for impounding only if the vehicle has false license plates or registration. (Not carrying proof of insurance is an innocent error, and may even result from an insurance company issuing the documents late. False license plates and/or false registration are willful violations of the law.) This bill passed out of committee unanimously (4 absent/abstain) and will be placed on the House Consent Calendar. There are no major objections to the bill in its current form. HB 176S2 - Weapons restrictions for mentally ill (Cox, G.) This bill was heard in committee early this morning while most people (including me!) were still stuck in the snow. The bill has been improved somewhat by clarifying that it only applies to current orders of civil commitment, that such orders are not evidence of criminal behavior, and by requiring that notice of the issue or cancellation of commitment orders or warrants for arrest must be given within one day of the action. The bill is still not perfect, and questions remain as to how Brady might affect this, but it is better. The bill passed out of committee and will now go to the House for a floor vote. This is no longer a priority bill. HB 199 - Prohibition of lawsuits against gun manufacturers (Throckmorton) This bill is now in the Senate. Call your Senator and ask him to support it! HB 245 - Safety in Public Schools (Wright) Rep. Wright has agreed to consider amendments to this bill. It will be heard in committee WEDNESDAY, House Judiciary Commmittee, 8 AM, Rm 223 WHAT YOU MUST DO! 1. Plan to attend the committee hearings tomorrow! 2. Call members of the House Education Committee and insist that they OPPOSE HB 248. Committee members are: Lloyd Frandsen, Chair lfrandse@le.state.ut.us 801-254-4940 Ron Bigelow, Vice Chair, rbigelow@le.state.ut.us 801-968-4188 Jeff Alexander, jalexand@le.state.ut.us 801-375-1092 Duane Bourdeaux, dbourdea@le.state.ut.us 801-596-8784 Judy Ann Buffmire, jbuffmir@le.state.ut.us 801-266-1862 Fred J. Fife, III, ffife@le.state.ut.us, 801-521-7383 David L. Hogue, dhogue@le.state.ut.us, 801-254-1668 Bradley T. Johnson, bjohnson@le.state.ut.us 435-529-3227 Keele Johnson, kjohnson@le.state.ut.us 435-678-2077 Tammy J. Rowan, trowan@le.state.ut.us 801-224-6141 LaWanna Shurtliff, lshurtli@le.state.ut.us 801-479-0289, 801-391-7387 Matt Throckmorton, mthrockm@le.state.ut.us 801-489-8342 Bill Wright, wwright@le.state.ut.us 801-667-3333 It's especially important to call the Chair, Rep. Frandsen! 3. Call Rep. Wright and ask him to accept the UTGuns amendment to HB 245. 801-667-3333 or 801-538-1029 4. Insist that your Senator SUPPORT HB 199 if you have not already done so. 5. Insist that your Representative OPPOSE HB 173 (forfeiture) and SB 37 (school surveys). Thanks! I hope to see many of you tomorrow! If we haven't met, please say hello and introduce yourself! (I'm the short lady with short, dark brown hair.) Sarah - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: New SECOND AMENDMENT Book Date: 01 Feb 2000 11:09:58 -0700 FYI ---------- My new book titled A Little Handbook on the Second Amendment: What the American aristocracy Doesn't Want You to Know has just been listed on Amazon.com. This is the only place it can be purchased, except for the possibility mentioned below. It is a summary of Second Amendment information found in academic books, but it includes different points of view and a broader scope of information than that commonly found in books on this subject. There is a lot more to know about the Second Amendment than what is usually discussed. I believe this "little handbook" can have a major impact on the American debate from a pro-gun point of view if read widely. Getting it read widely is my challenge. It has been written, printed, and published on a "shoe string." I hope many will purchase and read it. An "academic" has written a very positive review, but it was not written for "academics." I am hoping many from the general reading population will take the time to submit candid reviews on Amazon.com. Any help you can provide will be very much appreciated. The URL is http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0966935918/qid%3D945822745/002-879661/102-3771435-9816019 I apologize if you have received this message before. When you have something important to offer, but you're poor, you use every free resource possible to communicate and ask for help. I am unable to send free copies. Stay safe. Stay free. Joe Bass Suffolk, Virginia - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Dave Jones Date: 01 Feb 2000 13:09:12 -0700 It appears Dave Jones admitted he wants children shot. I suspect the same applies to parishioners. Scott ----- Did anyone get the interview with Dave Jones yesterday on FOX13 at noon? I have requested a transcript from FOX but the statement that I heard him make is as follows; "I would not want someone with a gun in school to protect my child." To go to the extreme of using one's own children as cannon fodder to promote and support gun control is, in my opinion, the lowest form of rhetoric on the planet. People like this should not be allowed to continue as a public servant. Art - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: PRO Gun March & Petition & Update from Neal Knox Date: 01 Feb 2000 16:41:45 -0700 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:35:26 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA11637; Tue, 1 Feb 2000 18:33:54 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200002012333.SAA11637@fs1.mainstream.net> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: noban@mainstream.net X-Divvy-no: 1 PRO Gun March & Petition & Update from Neal Knox and Leroy Pyle Please sign the petition at http://www.i-charity.net/sw.cgi/ptn/4 The Second Amendment Sisters have created an online petition against gun control to be submitted at the rally in DC on Mother's Day. As luck would have it, it's at the same place that the Million Mom Marchers have their petition. It was put up this evening, and can you believe that we've got more signatures than the MMM's do? Please help us out - sign and cross post this alert! See Knox's comments on this group. Jan 29 update -- President Bill Clinton's State of the Union promise to put "gun control" at the front of this year's legislative agenda, and his upping the ante to require a handgun buyer's license complete with a "gun safety" test, may make it possible for Republicans to hold the House in this year's election. But if Republican leaders start caving on these issues -- deserting their base among gun owners, as they have shown a proclivity to do -- they will assure their loss of the House, and possibly even both houses of the Congress and the Presidency. Clinton's adoption of Al Gore's campaign issue came as a surprise -- although there had been rumors dating back to the mid- December summit meeting of leading Administration anti-gunners. But the structure of the Clinton handgun licensing program -- mandating the states to create the programs -- makes it less likely to get through Congress, much less get past the Supreme Court (which has been taking a dim view of state mandates). Requiring states to implement the Clinton-Gore program makes it less likely to get the "moderates" from both parties to support the plan. Further, by pulling the string on this radical program before obtaining passage of the Senate-passed and mostly House- approved Juvenile Justice gun amendments, Clinton is signaling once again that he doesn't care about passing "gun control" -- he mainly wants to argue about it during the 2000 campaign. If Republicans remember "who brung them to the dance" in 1994 -- and even Clinton acknowledged that it was the Democrats' passage of Brady and the "assault weapon" ban that gave Republicans their first Congressional majority in 40 years -- then Clinton and Gore will have made a huge political miscalculation. By such a major escalation of the "gun control" fight, Clinton should make it easier to stop both the handgun license and the package of gun bills we saw in 1999. Unless Republican leaders start folding. Strangely, it's all up to the Republicans. --------------- While NRA apparently isn't doing anything to counter the Million Mom March on Mother's day, Second Amendment Sisters plans an Armed Informed Mothers' March (A.I.M.M.) for Sunday May 14 on the Mall in Washington D.C. "The purpose of A.I.M.M. is to ... let Congress know that we won't stand for having our right to defend our families ripped away," Dallas spokesman Kimberly J. Watson says. Right on, ladies. ******************************************************************** FIGHT THE MANDATORY TRIGGER LOCKS, PURCHASE LIMITS, LICENSING AND REGISTRATION. NEWS FROM THE SECOND AMENDMENT SISTERS 18484 Preston Road, Suite 102#141 Dallas, TX 75252 World Wide Web: http://www.SAS-AIM.org ========================================= FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE ========================================= For additional information: Kimberly J. Watson, Spokesperson Toll-free Phone: (877) 271-6216 E-Mail: moms4guns@yahoo.com ========================================= Second Amendment Sisters Announce the Armed Informed Mothers' March DALLAS, TX, January 24, 2000 — The Second Amendment Sisters, a grassroots self-defense advocacy organization, has announced plans for the Armed Informed Mothers' March (A.I.M.M.), Sunday May 14, 2000, on the Mall in Washington D.C. "The purpose of A.I.M.M. is to get concerned women together and let Congress know that we won't stand for having our right to defend our families ripped away," said Kimberly J. Watson, one of the founders of the group. "We won't let this assault go on any longer." "Women deserve to have every option available to them when it comes to protecting themselves from violence," said Watson. "Any further erosion of the Second Amendment serves only to harm women and their families. Violent criminals don't care how many new laws are made for the children - in fact, a crush of new laws will make it that much easier for criminals to take advantage of children, and their mothers." In 1998, one out of every 33 women was a victim of a violent crime. Second Amendment Sisters (SAS) is the brainchild of a small group of women who decided to fight back against propaganda put forth by organizations, such as Handgun Control Inc., which are seeking to exclude the public from firearms ownership. SAS would like to use A.I.M.M. as an opportunity to teach the public things they might not know about laws that exist right now, and why the Second Amendment is important to the American people. They also want to emphasize the need for firearms-safety education, tougher sentencing for violent criminals, and greater parental involvement in the lives of children. "The women behind the Million Mom March are attacking the wrong end of the problem. Any inanimate object will just sit there until a person picks it up. What they do with it depends on what kind of respect they've been taught for human life," said Watson. "With A.I.M.M., we can make our voices heard. We have to stop treating the law-abiding citizens like criminals. Even Golda Meir was against playing politics on the backs of our children." *************************************************************** Call your CONGRESSMAN AND STATE LEGISLATORS now. This can now be accomplished at the speed of light, thanks to WorldNetDaily's new Legislative Action Center. http://congress.nw.dc.us/wnd/ You can call your two Senators at (202) 224-3121 and your Representative at (202) 225-3121 at the Capitol Switchboard. Here is the URL for Congressional Telephone Directory: http://clerkweb.house.gov/106/mbrcmtee/members/teledir/me mbers/cdframe.htm Here's an e-mail link to Congress. http://in-search-of.org/ http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ http://www.gunowners.org/mailerx.html For legislative updates contact www.nealknox.com and go to "Scripts from the Firearms Coalition Legislative Update Line" What To Do If The Police Come To Confiscate Your Militia Weapons see www.2ndamendment.net To spread the word call Rush Limbaugh at 800-282-2882 and callers may call in from 12 noon to 3PM EST, M-F ******************************************************************* From The 2ndAmendmentNews Team If you received this as a forward and wish to join please send: E-MAil to listserver@frostbit.com with the following text in the message body: SUBSCRIBE 2nd-Amendment-News We have had a computer error. If you want to be removed send a message to the list administrator, send E-mail to luz.clark@prodigy.net If you know anyone who would appreciate these alerts, please let us know and we'll enroll them on a trial basis. Also, feel free to forward our alerts. - To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@mainstream.net, and as the body of the message (plain text, no HTML), send the following: unsubscribe noban email-address where email-address is the address under which you are subscribed. Report problems to owner-noban@mainstream.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: EMERGENCY Date: 02 Feb 2000 11:31:16 -0700 This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to properly handle MIME multipart messages. --=_89D02439.52335F43 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Anyone heard of this? --=_89D02439.52335F43 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from hotmail.com (law-f282.hotmail.com [209.185.130.221]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 08:39:28 -0700 Received: (qmail 94943 invoked by uid 0); 2 Feb 2000 15:40:16 -0000 Message-ID: <20000202154016.94942.qmail@hotmail.com> Received: from 204.246.130.80 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP; Wed, 02 Feb 2000 07:40:16 PST X-Originating-IP: [204.246.130.80] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >From: philmurray@att.net >To: "David Sagers" >Subject: EMERGENCY >Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 01:31:13 -0800 > >David, > >Please read the message below and contact your senators ASAP!!! You can >call the toll-free number at the end and leave a message for your senator >24 hours a day. > >"The only thing needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." > (Paraphrased - I don't remember the exact quote or author, but you get >the idea!) > >Thanks! >Phil >-----Original Message----- >From: Gun Owners of America >To: goamail@gunowners.org >Date: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 6:53 PM >Subject: U.S. Senate Emergency Alert > > > >Backdoor Gun Control to be Voted on in the Senate > > -- Your Senators must hear from you immediately > > > >Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert > >8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 > >Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 > >http://www.gunowners.org > > > > > >(Tuesday, February 1, 2000) -- As early as tomorrow morning, the > >Senate is expected to vote on an amendment to the bankruptcy bill, > >offered by Michigan anti-gun Senator Carl Levin, which would take a > >major step toward eliminating the manufacture and sales of firearms > >in America. > > > >Currently, 30 counties and municipalities have brought frivolous > >suits against gun manufacturers and dealers. In some cases, these > >manufacturers have had to fight to force their insurance companies > >to defend them in this politically motivated litigation. > > > >The Levin amendment would provide that, if a Leftist judge, such as > >New York's Jack Weinstein, entered an enormous judgment against a > >firearms manufacturer or dealer, the manufacturer or dealer could > >not avoid the judgment by declaring bankruptcy, even if the judgment > >massively exceeded the total assets of the manufacturer or dealer. > > > >The purpose of the Levin amendment is obvious: to insure, even if > >the gun industry is successful in defeating 29 out of 30 politically > >motivated suits, that a single substantial loss can destroy every major > >American firearms manufacturer -- and ruin the lives of the owners and > >managers. No one should assume that firearms will continue to be made or > >sold if this occurs. > > > >No other American industry is singled out for punishment in this > >way. > > > >Obviously, a secondary goal of the Levin amendment is to pressure > >dealers and manufacturers to bargain away your Second Amendment > >rights in order to avoid the possibility of such a disastrous > >non-dischargeable judgment. > > > >ACTION: Call or e-mail your two Senators and ask them to vote to > >table (kill) the Levin anti-gun amendment to the bankruptcy bill (S. > >625). Let them know that the purpose of frivolous anti-gun lawsuits is > >nothing less than the elimination of firearms manufacture and sales in > >our country. Remember that the vote will probably occur on Wednesday > >morning, February 2. > > > >You can reach your Senators toll-free at 1-888-449-3511, or at > >202-224-3121. E-mail addresses and fax numbers are available on the > >GOA website. > > > >************** > >Cheaper Than Dirt donates a percentage of your total order to GOA if you > >use http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/goa.htm to enter their online store. > > > >************** > >Did someone else forward this to you? To be certain of getting up to date > >information, please consider subscribing to the GOA E-Mail Alert Network > >directly. There is no cost or obligation, and the volume of mail is quite > >low. To subscribe, simply send a message to goamail@gunowners.org and > >include the state in which you live, in either the subject or the body. > >To unsubscribe, reply to any alert and ask to be removed. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --=_89D02439.52335F43-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Karl Pearson" Subject: RE: EMERGENCY Date: 02 Feb 2000 11:41:29 -0700 I've not heard of it... Any news yet? Karl L. Pearson Senior uniVerse Database/Systems Analyst karlp@ut.colubs.com -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of David Sagers Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:31 AM sagernw@thiokol.com; utah-firearms@xmission.com Anyone heard of this? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Sagers" Subject: RE: EMERGENCY Date: 02 Feb 2000 11:44:37 -0700 Karl I'll call Hatch's office and see if they can give me any info. >>> "Karl Pearson" 02/02/00 11:41AM >>> I've not heard of it... Any news yet? Karl L. Pearson Senior uniVerse Database/Systems Analyst karlp@ut.colubs.com=20 -----Original Message----- [mailto:owner-utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of David Sagers Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2000 11:31 AM sagernw@thiokol.com; utah-firearms@xmission.com=20 Anyone heard of this? - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Karl Pearson" Subject: Gun Laws By State Database Date: 02 Feb 2000 12:10:48 -0700 Here's a link to a database of gun control legislation by state. I'm not advocating support for the site. It's just a resource worth checking out. http://www.handguncontrol.org/database/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Republicans for social engineering? Date: 02 Feb 2000 14:37:23 -0700 ----- Folks, I need some help. HB 91, tax credits for safes, will be heard tomorrow at 8 AM in the House Revenue and Taxation Committee. The bill is being supported by USSC (and probably the NRA). UTGuns is OPPOSING it. I'm unaware of GOUtah's position. Supporters of the bill say it's "good for gun owners" because the government will "give" them up to $150 if they buy a safe. Opponents say it will start the slippery slope toward mandatory storage laws - which make self-defense impossible unless you're strong enough to throw the safe at a criminal, that it will facilitate registration, and that it helps promote the propaganda that all guns should be locked up at all times. But it's NOT a gun issue, it's a question of principle. It's an issue of big government meddling in private matters and using its considerable force to effect "social engineering". Even if it were an absolutely clean bill to help gun owners, it's WRONG, and should be opposed. Conservatives don't like being forced to pay for things they find objectionable - things like government collection of union dues, government-funded abortions, and socialist brainwashing camps disguised as public schools. Why then should we support forcing other people to pay for gun safes - even people who (however misguided they are!) oppose private ownership of firearms? If tax credits for social engineering are wrong, they're wrong no matter who stands to benefit. Conservatives and Republicans should not be supporting this nonsense! Government doesn't pay you to wear a safety helmet, child-proof your home, or put a fence around your property. It shouldn't pay you to buy a safe either. HB 91 is sponsored by Chad Bennion. It is a bipartisan bill (which should always raise a red flag!) with many co-sponsors. Sponsors are: Matt Throckmorton David M. Jones Greg J. Curtis Thomas V. Hatch Bradley T. Johnson Bill Wright Brad King Kory M. Holdaway I'd also like to emphasize that I am most definitely NOT accusing anyone of malice in relation to this bill. With the possible exception of notorious gun-grabber Dave Jones, I believe they all are sincerely trying to do something good and helpful. (That's really how we got into the big government mess we're in now - too many good, sincere, people trying to use government to "help".) Committee members are: Rep. Raymond W. Short , Chair 801-277-1372 Rep. Wayne A. Harper , Vice Chair 801-566-5466 Rep. Eli H. Anderson 435-854-3760 Rep. Melvin R. Brown 801-243-9122 Rep. Judy Ann Buffmire 801-266-1862 Rep. Greg J. Curtis 801-943-3091 Rep. Kevin S. Garn 801-544-3533 Rep. James R. Gowans 435-882-2120 Rep. Karen W. Morgan 801-943-0067 Rep. Evan L. Olsen 435-752-4304 Rep. Loraine T. Pace 435-753-6154 Rep. Tammy J. Rowan 801-224-6141 Rep. Jack A. Seitz 435-789-0650 Rep. Glenn L. Way 801-798-2295 Please help me explain to these folks that tax credits for social engineering are not a solution to anything! (And since I know someone will ask - While I have some philosophical objections to tuition tax credits, I don't consider them "tax credits". I consider them "tax rebates" for the exorbitant amount of taxes I'm forced to pay for the biggest social (or is that socialist?) engineering project in human history.) Comments (and objections!) are welcome! Thanks! Sarah - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: URGENT ACTION ALERT Date: 03 Feb 2000 09:15:11 -0700 ---------- URGENT ACTION ALERT - February 2, 2000 - (HB 95 Gun Show Background Checks) Daily update on status of every gun bill is available at http://www.UtahShootingSports.org Anti-gun Rep. Dave Jones is pushing a "gun show background check" scheme that does not control crime, only intrudes into lawful transactions between private individuals. This bill will be heard by the House Criminal Justice and Law enforcement Committee at 9:00 Friday February 4, 2000 in room 225. Full text of HB 95 is available at http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2000/bills/hbillint/HB0095.htm Your strong support and immediate action is needed to defeat this good sounding but totally useless scheme. Start contacting committee members immediately and please make every effort to attend the hearing as well. (We apologize for calling for action on another bill so soon, but this one must be defeated too.) This bad idea will surely be followed by a worse one, to force every private gun transaction to be made through a dealer. SB 44 has already been introduced covering every handgun transfer in the state, even the temporary loan of a gun at a shooting range. ** Gun show background checks are being addressed by federal legislation. It is foolish to pass state requirements which will create impossible conflicts with the federal requirements. ** Neither Utah nor federal authorities are prosecuting criminals who illegally buy guns now. Thousands of such offenses have been documented by the Department of Public Safety but prosecutions are at or near ZERO! There is no justification for imposing meaningless bureaucratic requirements which only harass citizens and do nothing to put criminals in jail. ** This can be used to accomplish defacto registration of every gun and every gun buyer and seller, and invade the privacy of any buyer or seller with no safeguards. ** Numerous terms are contradictory, vague or undefined and serve only to entrap the innocent gun owner or buyer. ---The definition of "gun show or event" is vague and would apply to virtually any time ten or more gun owners gather for any purpose. ---Who is an exhibitor? Someone with a table, or someone who brought in grandpa's old shotgun to sell? ---What is an "antique firearm'? ---What is a transfer? When you simply hand a gun to another person? ---How does the BCI Division setting up a location enter into a private transaction? Will they be liable for the safety or legality of the firearm? What records will they be allowed or required to keep? ** It imposes impossible requirements for transfer via entities that may not be present at what is defined as a "gun show or event." ** This is more like an excuse to charge people fees for a background check and drive up the cost of firearms by fees and nuisance charges. ** This is more "gun control" aimed at harassing law abiding citizens with little or no impact on criminal activity. ** Schemes trying to force non-dealer firearms transfers into a background check system serve only as a step toward the ultimate registration of all guns and licensing of all gun owners. Neither step has ever proven effective in reducing crime, and they are only needed only as the basis for confiscation. Please plan to attend this hearing if possible. And please contact committee members and politely but firmly insist that they OPPOSE HB 95. (R) Bud Bowman, Chairman dbowman@le.state.ut.us 435-586-8174 (R) Jack A. Seitz, Vice Chairman jseitz@le.state.ut.us 435-789-0650 (R) Loraine Pace lpace@le.state.ut.us 435-753-6154 (R) Blake D. Chard, bchard@le.state.ut.us 801-773-7474 (R) Carl Saunders, csaunder@le.state.ut.us 801-476-1110 (R) Nora Stephens, nstephen@le.state.ut.us 801-825-3792 (R) Susan Koehn, skoehn@le.state.ut.us 801-296-1761 (R) David L. Hogue, dhogue@le.state.ut.us 801-254-1668 (D) Perry L. Buckner, pbuckner@le.state.ut.us 801-964-8215 (D) Duane Bourdeaux, dbourdea@le.state.ut.us 801-596-8784 (D) Trisha Beck, tbeck@le.state.ut.us 801-572-2325. You can send a FAX to any house member at 801-538-1908 If this alert was forwarded to you by someone other than USSC you can sign up for alerts by sending an E-mail to addalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Please forward this e-mail to anyone you think may be interested. For anyone who does not have Internet access, the latest Utah legislative updates are available by telephone. The number is 801-299-7230. Visit our web-site at: http://www.UtahShootingSports.org for the latest news and membership applications. To be removed from the USSC E-Mail Action Alert list, send an e-mail to: dropalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Thanks for your time. Provided by the Utah Shooting Sports Council, Box 1975, Layton, UT 84041-6975 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: A Gal Needs A Gun - by Ed Parker Date: 03 Feb 2000 10:42:25 -0700 My apology for not forwarding the antecedent story. Don't let anyone be in a defenseless position save by choice. Scott Bergeson www.sierratimes.com The View From Lobo Rock - Vol 2. A Gal Needs A Gun By Ed Parker - SierraTimes.com Ranch Hand February 3, 2000 By now the story of the rapist who was shot and killed in Phoenix the other night has made the rounds, and so has the point. The cops are not there to protect our women, they are there to take their pictures and draw chalk outlines around their bodies after they have been disarmed, raped, and murdered. This is a tale of two women- one who understood this fact and one who apparently did not. One is faced with the prospect of cleaning her weapon, and perhaps her floors. The other, with that of recovering from surgery. One can look in the mirror now, every day for the rest of her life, and know that when her worst fears were realized, she had the will and the prowess and the means not just to survive an attack, but to vanquish her attacker. She is a heroine. She is what the gun-hating feminots hate to admit is a sterling, diamond-studded example of a strong, liberated woman. In sharp contrast with another "strong woman" of certain treasonous renown, this lady had no heavily armed guards or armor-plated amenities to depend on during the moment of truth. Because she was unwilling to be anyone's victim, hell has a little less standing room today. This woman, and the rest of us are liberated from the threat of one more pervert, and all for the low low price of one handgun, and one bullet. The other woman, God bless her, will recover from her wounds. But she will be scarred for life. She will look in the mirror every day for the rest of her life and she will see what this creepazoid lizard from hell did to her. She will see the physical scars and she will feel the mental reproof of every "if only" scenario imaginable to such a piteous one as this. It's likely she'll reconsider her position on firearms ownership entirely. While one woman will remember this day with amazement, the other is doomed to remember it in shame. It is not her fault that she was attacked, but it was her fault that she was unprepared for it. Having put her personal security in some other entity's hands, she had nothing with which to defend herself. Who is to blame for her predicament? Ultimately, it is she, but why would anyone allow themselves to be so vulnerably exposed and defenseless in the society in which we live? Well, now here we come to the interesting part of this story, that is, the subsequent media coverage of this event- or the lack thereof. A few weeks ago, when a teen was shot in a Phoenix area park, we got the breathless headlines delivered from the scene and a big gutful of "moron-on-the-street" interviews featuring socialist-trained invertebrates. We got a followup article about what HCI thought about it, how gun violence is the focus of this or that committee and what you could do to participate in the anti-gun rally nearest you. This time, we got an "Oh-uh, by the way- some lady shot a guy trying to assault her in her home who happened to be morally challenged, sexually over-assertive, and armed with a pistol. The victim of the shooting is dead and the woman will not be charged, but we think she ought to be so we'll raise our eyebrows and cluck our tongues as we deliver this load of horsehockey." In a separate story we heard the 911 tapes of the woman who had been shot three times, who had to get off the line after alerting authorities so she could call her husband ant tell him she had been shot. Either we had two women shot in such a manner in one day, or KNXV-15 TV (ABC affilliate) decided to completely ignore the second half of that story. Why was this woman vulnerable? Could it have been because she was conditioned to be so? Bombarded as she is every day with socialist claptrap and tyrannical dictates, as well as entertainment pablum designed to reinforce the aforementioned claptrap, who could wonder that she was unarmed? Our artificially produced culture today incriminates and insinuates and denigrates gun ownership as much as it does religious faith. This attitude has percolated through big chunks of America, and sadly, many people die every year as a result. This lady is lucky. I'll bet she's never caught off-guard again. And I'll bet she starts sneering at the talking heads and the socialist burgermeisters and the unclothed emporer as she learns about their role in keeping her ignorant, vulnerable, and enslaved. She too will see the real Rodham feminot agenda for what it is, the Klinton Legacy for its PERSONAL threat to her, and the HCI folks for the freedom-eating termites that they are. The agenda, the threat, and the undermining of the safety of every American today is tyranny. It is cheauvenism far beyond anything ever dreamed of by the Burning Brassiere Brigade. It is utter, arrogant disregard for human life, and greedy, covetousness of our liberty. This attack went beyond a single woman. It threatens every woman who today lacks the means to defend herself. It threatens every man without the same means. Us. It threatens US. Gun control threatens only one segment of the population. Us. Our women, our children, our old folks. Ask this lady a year from now in whom she trusts for her personal safety. She'll probably say something like, "In Jesus, and Misters Smith and Wesson." Two hundred and some odd years ago, a feller said a similar thing, urging his compatriots to trust in God and their rifles. Today, a pistol is right handy too. Up here, On Lobo Rock, folks hardly give a thought to a lady with a gun. It only seems right and proper that she ought to be armed. This is a peaceful place, but bad hombres pass through town all the time. In Phoenix, this lady had the right to be armed, but she chose not to. Perhaps the pretty lady on 3TV clucked just so, perhaps the president convinced her that she shouldn't, perhaps she believed that the police would be there to protect her. In the end, it was her sister with a gun that terminated the threat, once and for all. No booking. No bail. No release. No lawyers. No legal technicality. No lenient sentence. No more. He's done. It's over. And the woman that killed him deserves our thanks, and a medal. Ed Parker Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed by the editorials do not necessarily represent the view of this website, it's staff or it's owner. ...yeah, right. Ed Parker is a Staff Writer for the Sierra Times. Archives will be available...one day Back to the Sierra News Ranch....YEEE HAAHHH! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Someone we need to contact Date: 03 Feb 2000 14:20:47 -0700 This letter to the editor appeared in today's DesNews. This woman needs to be contacted and perhaps persuaded to testify at the legislature. I'll try to track her down, but wanted to make sure others knew of her as well. Tobias is my heroine I read A. Drew Thompson's letter (Readers' Forum, Jan. 27), and I would like him to know Janalee Tobias is my heroine. She is fighting for our right to defend ourselves. We don't need any more gun laws, especially those working up to taking away our weapons. You know, "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile." President Clinton and Al Gore are already working to register all guns. Perhaps you haven't heard that this is what Hitler did as a first step in disarming his people. Just remember, the criminals won't register theirs. I'm sorry more women don't speak up. I've written several times before, but you know I'm just another "lunatic," as you put it. Well, Mr. Thompson, a firearm is the only thing women have to put themselves on an equal basis with the real lunatics, the criminals. And, by the way, as I have written before, my firearm has saved me three times, a few years back and once as a girl of 14 when a man tried to enter my house. I have never had to shoot anyone yet. People who have never been in this type of situation need to read the news and wake up. Lucille Barber Bawden Salt Lake City ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-3: NEWS FLASH! HEARING CANCELLED! Date: 03 Feb 2000 19:52:47 -0700 ----- HB 95, Background checks for private firearms transactions, originally scheduled for Friday at 9 AM WILL NOT BE HEARD at that time. It will presumably be heard at some future date. See http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2000/agenda/HLAW0204.htm You do NOT need to show up for the hearing tomorrow. However, you should continue to express your opposition to this bill to legislators, and especially to committee members. Today's full report will follow later.... Thanks to Elwood Powell of USSC for the "heads up"! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com. Please check out the new site! This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-3: GOA's alert Date: 04 Feb 2000 10:58:11 -0700 ---------- Thanks to the great folks at GOA for their support and assistance. If you're not on GOA's email list, please sign up. It's free. And if you're not already a member, please join. You can join on the web site and we'll also have membership applications at the gun show. All of you are doing great. But the truth is, we're getting killed. If we don't redouble our efforts, Utah will end up like NY, CA and MA. Don't let it happen here! Sarah PS: Remember that HB 95 will NOT be heard Friday! Gun Owners of America Fax/Email Alert 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, Virginia 22151 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 http://www.gunowners.org Utah Legislative Update -- February 4, 2000 Your cards, letters, faxes and postcards have the capitol buzzing! Governor "Gun Control" Leavitt is up in arms, worried that his anti-gun agenda is in danger. Now, like a cornered animal, he is at his most dangerous, willing to stop at nothing to force gun control down the throats of Utah's citizens. Please, right away, use the included rosters and once again call your Representatives and Senators. Tell them "NO GUN CONTROL in 2000." Leavitt and other anti-gun legislators are applying a lot of pressure to ram their agenda through -- it is critical that you contact your legislators again immediately and urge them to stand up for your rights. Here are details on the latest developments: Gun Owners Make Some Headway Against Current of Bad Bills The latest "No-Safety Zone " bill in Utah has been stopped in Committee -- at least for now. Rep. Dave Jones's HB 248, which would have banned guns in schools, churches and private residences was tabled in committee on Tuesday, despite anti-gun maneuverings by the acting Committee Chair Ron Bigelow and his cronies. As of now, it appears that it will stay dead, but GOA will keep you posted. Gun Owners from across Utah, numbering around 100, made a strong show of opposition at the hearing but still the vote was close. That means that many politicians still haven't gotten the message: NO GUN CONTROL IN 2000. Gun Owners Lose Ground on Other Fronts Yesterday, the House Judiciary Committee gave Utah gun owners a slap in the face, passing HB 245, the "NO SAFETY IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS" Act, by a glaringly anti-gun vote of 9-0-2. Not only will this bill treat a child with a toy gun as a violent criminal, but it opens the door to Federal funds, allowing anti-gun feds to call shots in your local affairs. Remember -- this bill treats gun owners as a separate, second class of citizen. Please call your Representative and tell him or her that this bill needs to apply to ALL violent offenses, or they need to oppose it. NO GUN CONTROL IN 2000. SB 72S1 (Terry Spencer) was heard by the Senate Judiciary Committee and passed. Some other so-called "pro-gun groups," afraid of bad press and of losing a battle, gave up instead, actually helping to pass this anti-gun bill! The sponsors made some token changes, but while it was originally much worse, it remains an anti-gun bill targeted at gun ownership. Do not be fooled just because they aren't asking you to sacrifice as much -- gun owners will still be giving up their rights if this passes. Among other things, the bill as rewritten still calls for unconstitutional ex post facto (after the fact) penalties -- holding juvenile offenses against people in order to deny gun rights. And once again creating a separate second class of citizen -- the gun owner. This tactic is being used very effectively against gun owners in nearby Colorado -- don't let it happen here! Gun Owners Action Item Rabid anti-gun Rep. Dave Jones is not about to let the opinion of the public (see HB 248 above) affect his agenda. HB 95, The Jones-Leavitt plan for BRADY REGISTRATION OF PRIVATE SALES of guns at "gun shows" will be heard FEB. 4 at 9 AM in Room 225. If you buy a gun at a so-called "gun show" Mike Leavitt and Dave Jones want Big Brother to know about it. This is the next major step towards a complete gun owner database. Plus, anti-gun Democrats have already moved the goal line. They think "gun show" registration is a sure thing. ALL private sales may be registered with Big Brother. If it passes, anti-gunners win and it could result in the closing down of gun shows in Utah. Please contact committee members and insist that they OPPOSE HB 95. Bud Bowman dbowman@le.state.ut.us 435-586-8174 Jack A. Seitz jseitz@le.state.ut.us 435-789-0650 Loraine Pace lpace@le.state.ut.us 435-753-6154 Blake D. Chard bchard@le.state.ut.us 801-773-7474 Carl Saunders csaunder@le.state.ut.us 801-476-1110 Nora Stephens nstephen@le.state.ut.us 801-825-3792 Susan Koehn skoehn@le.state.ut.us 801-296-1761 David L. Hogue dhogue@le.state.ut.us 801-254-1668 Perry L. Buckner pbuckner@le.state.ut.us 801-964-8215 Duane Bourdeaux dbourdea@le.state.ut.us 801-596-8784 Trisha Beck tbeck@le.state.ut.us 801-572-2325 All can be contacted at: 801-538-1029 ************** Cheaper Than Dirt donates a percentage of your total order to GOA if you use http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/goa.htm to enter their online store. ************** Did someone else forward this to you? To be certain of getting up to date information, please consider subscribing to the GOA E-Mail Alert Network directly. There is no cost or obligation, and the volume of mail is quite low. To subscribe, simply send a message to goamail@gunowners.org and include the state in which you live, in either the subject or the body. To unsubscribe, reply to any alert and ask to be removed. ------------- To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to leg-alerts-request@aros.net with the line unsubscribe leg-alerts in the body. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Lawmaking Date: 04 Feb 2000 11:07:29 -0700 A common sense approach to legislators by Dick Partridge. ---------- Dear Pete and Ben: With all the restrictive firearms bills coming down the pike, I just want to remind you that lawmaking is not a form of magic, and that the only people who are affected by the laws that come from those bills, are honest, law-abiding people. The best way to stop criminals is to allow the honest people to freely arm themselves. In every example, crime is reduced where people are freely armed and increases with added restrictive laws. Vermont has no restrictive concealed carry law and very little crime, whereas, Washington DC, New York, Chicago, and LA are unsafe to live in. (If gun control laws made us safer, the nation's capitol would be the safest place on earth.) I am a certified rifle, pistol, and self-defense firearms instructor, and one of my worst fears is to be in a public place when a criminal starts shooting, and all I can do is crawl under a table because the law won't allow me to carry a weapon. (I refuse to submit to unconstitutional concealed carry permit laws as I have sworn to defend the Constitution.) DickP - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: RKBA Story Date: 04 Feb 2000 14:56:44 -0700 The original story - Scott K E E P A N D B E A R A R M S A L E R T ======================================================= Copyright © 2000 by Keep And Bear Arms.org Republication of anything contained in this message is permitted if following line is added: "Reprinted from the Keep And Bear Arms Alert available at http://www.keepandbeararms.org" Angel Shamaya, Webmaster, Email News Editor webmaster@keepandbeararms.org Feedback is welcomed and encouraged: http://www.keepandbeararms.org/feedback.htm Subscribe or unsubscribe on our site. ======================================================= February 2, 2000 Special Edition Arizona Woman Raped, Beaten, Shot in Face is Vindicated Violent Perpetrator Pushing Daisies by Angel Shamaya http://www.keepandbeararms.org Something very sad happened last night in Arizona. And, though we hate to hear about things like this, this story does have a nicer ending than it would have had one lone woman been unarmed. I'll start by telling you the victim is going to be okay. Because of the nature of the crime, information is not yet being released. And personally, I don't want to know her name except to send her prayers and possibly take up a collection to buy her a gun and some ammo. Here is what happened, which you can validate below if you so choose: He entered her home, armed, and went after her. He beat her. He raped her. He violated her womanhood and her humanity. As if this wasn't enough, then he shot her in the arm. Then he shot her in the face. Then he shot her in the torso. He left her for dead, an outcome which one would expect after what she'd been through. Fortunately, she will live. This animal then stole her car and went to a residence in Apache Junction where he attempted to assault another woman. THIS woman had a gun. One less criminal in the world. Yes, the homeowner legally shot and killed and rid the world of a man who does horrible things to innocent women. To the nice lady who pulled the trigger, THANK YOU. A friend of mine heard it on 910AM and tipped me off to follow up. I spoke to the Newsman on duty at the station who refused to fax the Associated Press story to me because it would "violate AP copyright rules". He DID freely give me the details. I further verified the story with the Apache Junction Police Department and am awaiting a call from Senior Commander Scott. The detective who answered the phone said the woman is listed in stable condition and expected to recover. She said their phones have been ringing off the hook. My guess is that the barrage of calls are people wanting to hear the truth, that a bad guy got caught---something newspapers and radio stations seem to forget to report these days. Please write letters to the Arizona papers listed at the end of this message and FAX them after sending an email. If you have any further details about this, Please get them to me and CALL ME to let me know you've sent the message. I want to get the Good Side out to every Pro-gun organization I can TODAY. We need to FLOOD the Arizona papers with letters and phone calls (locals, anyway) and faxes. As some people getting this message live near the area, please slide by the Apache Junction Police Station on Idaho road and pick up the press tape. Tell them you are a news reporter for KeepAndBearArms.org and have them call me if they give you any grief. A full report would help write the letters. All the sudden I am now understanding why I was a News Director of two radio stations and went through all that training only to walk away from the industry in disgust. Now I get to use what I learned to help spread the true news, regardless of the lies brought forth by media preying on the rights, minds, and fears of law abiding citizens. That criminal sure didn't seem to notice the 20,000 gun laws on the books. Enough is enough. Let's hear some GOOD NEWS about the legal use of guns for a change. I only hope the good people of Apache Junction wake up and urge their citizens to push the Arizona State Representatives and Senators to SUPPORT HB 2582 so all the UN-Constitutional laws cities such as Tempe and Tucson now exhibit regarding the right of law abiding citizens carrying weapons will disappear. If you don't yet know about what HB 2582 is, please learn quickly as we only have a few days left to tell congress people to support The Arizona and United States Constitutions. Seems they've forgotten their sworn oaths to do just that. If you would like to send a message to the Arizona Legislators to support HB 2582, please go here: http://www.keepandbeararms.org/auto_mailers.htm To contact Arizona newspapers and address the issue of their regular slanted, anti-gun reporting and demand they print the truth about this story, the information is below. "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." United States & Arizona Constitutions To all of the people working to disarm the GOOD guys amidst bad guys who don't obey laws, you're working the wrong angle on this thing. Please educate yourself before the only people with guns are the criminals. Angel Shamaya American http://www.keepandbeararms.org Arizona Star email editor's many addresses: http://www.azstarnet.com/mast2.htm#howtoreach Arizona Republic Comment's Email Address and website: comments@azcentral.com http://www.azcentral.com/ Tucson Citizen online@tucsoncitizen.com http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/ Arizona Daily Sun http://www.azdailysun.com/ Reported on 910AM Radio in Phoenix (480) 255-5394 to get on their talk show tonight and speak our side of why people deserve to be able to preserve our rights to defend ourselves. Apache Junction Police (480) 982-8260 -------- LINKS -------- Please provide any links you'd like to share with our national email newsletter recipients. If you'd like a link on our website to your pro-gun website, please link to us and send your request. To submit a link to place on our website, go here: http://www.keepandbeararms.org/link_submit.htm Pro-Gun Email Addresses YourName@KeepAndBearArms.org http://www.keepandbeararms.org/email_forwards.htm 9 Myths of Gun Control http://www.keepandbeararms.org/gun_control_myths.htm 37 Gun Control Myths http://www.guntruths.com/Myths/truth_about_myths.htm Gun Control Leads to Genocide http://www.keepandbeararms.org/lethal_laws.htm Auto-Mailers Up On Our Site http://www.keepandbeararms.org/auto_mailers.htm So You Want To See Me Naked Article Link http://www.enterstageright.com/0100woguns.htm Texas Pro-gun Legislators Lead Lawsuit Against Cities Suing Gun Manufacturers http://www.goa-texas.org/tx_lawsuit-1.htm http://www.libertydefense.com Second Amendment Foundation Leads Lawsuit to Stop Harassment of Gun Manufacturers http://www.saf.org Boston Globe Proof of Media Bias http://www.keepandbeararms.org/media_bias.htm Just Another Day with Gun Control by Jim Houck, Creative Director, Citizens Of America http://www.citizensofamerica.org/witness.htm =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= This is a subscription email broadcast from http://www.keepandbeararms.org This broadcast is all about preserving our Second Amendment right to Keep And Bear Arms. You may subscribe or unsubscribe at any time on our website. If you have received any portion of this message through other email lists you are on, please pardon the duplication. We are committed to getting ALL pertinent info out to ALL gun owners and gun supporters. Forward it to people who may NOT have gotten these pieces of information. If you were forwarded this message, please sign yourself up for future updates at http://www.keepandbeararms.org Republication of anything contained in this message is permitted ONLY if following line is added: "Reprinted from the Keep And Bear Arms Alert available at http://www.keepandbeararms.org" Our mission is to have every gun owner in America subscribing to this list, to have the best online resource available for pro-gun links, legislative actions, activist action items, and to be instrumental in the preservation of the United States Constitution's Second Amendment right to Keep And Bear Arms. We welcome any input you can offer to co-create our success in our mission. =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= If this email message was forwarded to you, subscribe online at http://www.keepandbeararms.org Angel Shamaya Email Update Editor Webmaster List Administrator webmaster@keepandbeararms.org Harley Swift Deer Gunnie Reagan Website Spokesperson Feature Writer gunnie@keepandbeararms.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Subject: second amendment sisters (fwd) Date: 05 Feb 2000 09:42:09 -0500 I don't remember seeing this around here so... Chad ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- http://www.i-charity.net/sw.cgi/ptn/4 ---------- End Forwarded Message ---------- Pengar Enterprises, Inc. and Shire.Net LLC Web and Macintosh Consulting -- full service web hosting Chad Leigh chad@pengar.com chad@shire.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: AOL refuses RKBA connection Date: 07 Feb 2000 12:57:12 -0700 from Janalee Tobias: (If you're on AOL. please try to make this connection. If it doesn't work, please ask AOL why.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Open Letter to The President of the United States and All Members of the U.S. Congress ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The following letter is set up on an automailer at: http://www.keepandbeararms.org/auto_mailer_us_congress.htm if you would like to send it to every single U.S. Congress Member for whom I've found an email address. You can also use the mailer to send your own letter, worded however you please. ================================================= After attempting to log on to the above site, I got the following message from AOL (see below), They are tightening the noose more and more. Anyone else on AOL have this problem? Note to moderator: Please keep in mind this is a RKBA (keepandbeararms.org) site thus this message is list relevent Robert Florida ================================================= Connection refused - --- --- Description: Connection refused - --- --- End AOL message - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Karl Peterson Subject: Teacher who would like the ability to have a gun at school Date: 07 Feb 2000 21:12:18 -0700 I am a Secondary Science Teacher. Last year I taught at a Junior High School in Granite School district. One afternoon the code phrase for "weapon in school, clear the halls, close and lock doors, keep away from windows" came over the intercom. For almost an hour, we were kept like mushrooms - in the dark. Then an announcement came that it was a reported knife in the subdivision next to the school and that the lockdown was to continue until further notice. I had a lot of time to think of what I would do if an armed intruder came through my classroom door intent on harming me or my students. I am a NRA Life Member. I have four summers experience teaching firearms handling and marksmanship as Shooting Sports Director at Boy Scout Camps. I am a NRA certified Instructor with all rifle and shotgun endorsements both modern and black powder. If an armed individual came through my classroom door as it stands now, I would have no means to stop him other than throwing things at him. I am not sure if the officer assigned to my school was there that afternoon. He was away from the school for significant amounts of time as, I think, he was shared with the grade schools in the area that fed the Junior High. Anybody would know if he was there or not by looking for his car in his marked parking place. I lived in Los Angeles during the Northridge Earthquake and the recent L.A. Riots. Following the police pullout during the riots, the courts ruled that the police have no duty to protect the public. The only duty the police have is to track down, capture and deliver the perpetrator to the courts after the act has been done. So the policeman in my school has no direct duty to protect me or my students. I hope and expect that he would, but he has no duty to do so. I now teach in another School District. My door has a window in it which could be easily broken out even if the door is locked. There is an officer assigned to the school, but he is not always there. Columbine demonstrated that determined assailants will have their way for a long time before SWAT teams mobilize and arrive to try to stop them. As I understand it, a wounded teacher was left to die, while the students who had been keeping him alive were evacuated. Had he had a concealed carry permit, been trained in the use of a firearm, and been armed with the will to use it, the outcome might have been much different. I would very much appreciate it if your organization would lobby for my right to obtain a Concealed Carry Permit and carry a firearm on campus responsibly instead of painting me as a pseudo cop. I had to pass fingerprint checks to become a teacher and another set wouldn't phase me. I would welcome it if the State would admit that the cost of putting full-time police in every school or fencing and restricting access to metal detector equipped entrances is so prohibitive that it will never happen. If there were a call for teachers to volunteer to receive paid training and be furnished with a laser sight equipped handgun from a list of appropriate types for personal protection, I would jump at the chance. I can't afford a good laser sighted gun on a teachers salary. I would welcome the opportunity to be trained in handgun techniques by professional trainers and earn a Concealed Carry Permit. I would willingly go to the range to practice if they paid me even a minimal stipend to do it and would probably go even if they didn't pay me. I would probably keep the gun in a combination locked case bolted to the bottom of a key locked drawer in my desk. Hard to get to, but it would be there if the "armed intruder" code came across the intercom and I had to choose between defending myself and my students or just cowering in my room. As the situation is now, even if I had a Permit and the gun, I think it would be a violation of my contract which would get me fired if I were to have it at school. I have to go to work each day with the knowledge that the only firearm which is capable of resisting an armed intruder is on the person of a very fine man who is not there all the time and has, by court decree, no responsibility to protect myself or my students. The Teacher Union might not like the idea, but I would like to have the means to protect myself and my students. Inflammatory rhetoric does not help the situation. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: HB 95 - NO HEARING TODAY! Date: 08 Feb 2000 12:34:42 -0700 URGENT ACTION ALERT - Februry 7, 2000 - ( HB 95 - NO HEARING TUESDAY Feb 8) Daily update on status of every gun bill is available at http://www.UtahShootingSports.org HB 95 Hearing NOT, repeat NOT scheduled for Tuesday. New date uncertain- Despite what you may have heard on the news, Dave Jones' HB 95 is NOT on the agenda for tomorrow's House Law Enforcement & Criminal Justice Committee. We do not know what is going on, but when dealing with politicians, it is always smart to suspect that they are up to something sneaky. Reportedly, Dave Jones has a press conference scheduled for tomorrow to attack gun shows and everyone associated with them. This will probably include some false or misleading statistics based on the flawed "tracing studies" the Clinton cited at his latest anti-gun performance. At some point Jones is expected to substitute a new version of his bill to be more specific about only applying to sales at a gun show, swap meet or flea market. No one should fall for that gimmick. The clear objective of the anti-gun fanatics is to insert big brother government regulators and fees into every sale or transfer of any type of gun anywhere. Jones making a "reasonable compromise" to take only half of what he wants is a trap. SB 44, already in the Utah Senate, would require prior approval from police and/or a dealer transfer for ANY handgun transfer. The only real purpose is to create a database registering all guns and gun owners. Of course long arms would be added next. Private sales, including passing down family heirlooms or handing a gun to a youngster when teaching them to shoot safely are included in the Senate bill. The whole "background check" exercise is only a burden on law abiding citizens. Despite thousands of documented incidents of people failing a background check, NOT A SINGLE ONE HAS BEEN PROSECUTED! Each of these is a felony offense. Every gun owner should be outraged at the thought of NEW gun laws when Governor Mike Leavitt and Attorney General Jan Graham are not doing anything to enforce existing gun laws. The legislature should be investigating that instead of wasting time on more worthless gun laws. Voters should be looking for replacements for Governor and Attorney General who will enforce the laws, not take cheap shots at law-abiding citizens.. Yes, many of the people rejected by background checks are not violent felons and probably should not be prosecuted. Few people think that a 30 year old fist fight or non-violent tax charge, or a restraining order automatically filed during a divorce should keep someone from buying a gun for hunting or a collection, or for self defense. Maybe prosescutors should have some discretion in enforcement, but all background checks are worthless if there are exactly ZERO (or even just a few) prosecutions. A special thank you to the many people at the Salt Palace gun show who signed up as USSC members, or contributed time or money to help defend safe and legal gun ownership and use in Utah. While this is a tremendous help, the most important thing is when a gun owner picks up the phone, sends an e-mail or snail mail, or shows up at a hearing. This alert will not reach hundreds of new people who signed up this weekend as their names did not get entered in our email listing in time. If you know someone who signed up but will not get this, please forward it to them. Please continue to contact ALL committee members and express your opposition to HB 95. We apologize for any inconvenience. If this alert was forwarded to you by someone other than USSC you can sign up for alerts by sending an E-mail to addalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Please forward this e-mail to anyone you think may be interested. For anyone who does not have Internet access, the latest Utah legislative updates are available by telephone. The number is 801-299-7230. Visit our web-site at: http://www.UtahShootingSports.org for the latest news and membership applications. To be removed from the USSC E-Mail Action Alert list, send an e-mail to: dropalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Thanks for your time. Provided by the Utah Shooting Sports Council, Box 1975, Layton, UT 84041-6975 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Karl Pearson" Subject: Granbo Date: 09 Feb 2000 10:31:56 -0700 Apologies to the faint of heart (translation: more politically correct than I) MELBOURNE, Australia -- Gun-toting granny Ava Estelle, 81, was so ticked-off when two thugs raped her 18-year-old granddaughter that she tracked the unsuspecting ex-cons down - - and shot their testicles off! "The old lady spent a week hunting those bums down -- and when she found them, she took revenge on them in her own special way," said admiring Melbourne police investigator Evan Delp. "Then she took a taxi to the nearest police station, laid the gun on the sergeant's desk and told him as calm as could be: 'Those bastards will never rape anybody again, by God.' Cops say convicted rapist and robber Davis Furth, 33, lost both his penis and his testicles when outraged Ava opened fire with a 9-mm pistol in the seedy hotel room where he and former prison cellmate Stanley Thomas, 29, were holed up. The wrinkled avenger also blew Thomas' testicles to kingdom come, but doctors managed to save his mangled penis, policy said. "The one guy, Thomas, didn't lose his manhood, but the doctor I talked to said he won't be using it the way he used to," Detective Delp told reporters. "Both men are still in pretty bad shape, but I think they're just happy to be alive after what they've been through." The Rambo Granny swung into action August 21 after her granddaughter Debbie was carjacked and raped by two knife-wielding creeps in a section of town bordering on skid row. "When I saw the look on my Debbie's face that night in the hospital, I decided I was going to go out and get those bastards myself 'cause I figured the police would go easy on them," recalled the retired library worker. "And I wasn't scared of them, either -- because I've got me a gun and I've been shootin' it all my life." So, using a police artist's sketch of the suspects and Debbie's description of the sickos' car, tough-as-nails Ava spent seven days prowling the wino-infested neighborhood where the crime took place till she spotted the ill-fated rapists entering their flophouse hotel. "I know it was them the minute I saw 'em, but I shot a picture of 'em anyway and took it back to Debbie and she said sure as hell, it was them," the ornery oldster recalled. "So I went back to that hotel and found their room and knocked on the door -- and the minute the big one, Furth, opened the door, I shot 'em got right square between the legs, right where it would really hurt 'em most, you know. Then I went down to the police station and turned myself in." Now, baffled lawmen are tying to figure out how to deal with the vigilante granny. "What she did was wrong, but you can't really throw an 81-year-old woman in prison." Det. Delp said, "especially when all 3 million people in the city want to nominate her for sainthood." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: ALERT! HB 383, SB 72, & Mental Health Date: 09 Feb 2000 15:04:35 -0700 Mental illness shenanigans and firearms! Alert below! HB 383- revocation of concealed firearm permits - by Melvin Brown Let your reps know that this bill is still not acceptable in its present form. This bill once again opens the door to abuse in the form of "I state that he is prone to violence because he got angry and threatened to harm someone once and the police was called and so therefore we cannot trust him..." Anyway you get the picture. Unless someone is convicted by a jury of his peers of having done something unlawful HE IS INNOCENT!!! and so his rights may not be taken away from him. HB 72 S2 - Public safety amendments - by Terry Spencer (who else could it be?) With this bill again if you have ever been given a label by the mental health system kiss your rights goodbye. Let's not forget that in Texas the legislature had to go back and allow numerous records to young people to be expunged. There had been so much abuse committed by the mental health field there that many young people who wanted to join the army could not. Their record showed their "mental illness" yet hearings had been conducted that showed that the majority of those committed against their will and labeled were just fine (their parents had carried good insurance). So my point simply is this: a psychiatric label is too easily given and many innocent people will have their rights taken away from them and this bill will perpetrate this abuse. What you can do: Write, e.mail and or call your legislators and tell them not to be a party to this shameful travesty under the guise of protecting the citizens. Also call the sponsors of these bills and give them a piece of your mind . . . politely, of course. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: URGENT - HB 95 HEARING Thursday Feb 10, 4:00 PM Date: 09 Feb 2000 16:58:18 -0700 URGENT ACTION ALERT - Februry 9, 2000 - HB 95 HEARING Thursday Feb 10, 4:00 PM Daily update on status of every gun bill is available at http://www.UtahShootingSports.org HB 95 Hearing is scheduled for Thursday 10 Feb 4:00 PM in room 225 of the Capitol. Please plan to attend this important hearing on Rep. Dave Jones' Gun show background check scheme. This is simply a step forward on the anti-gun agenda of eventually requiring registration of all guns and gun owners and further intrusion into private matters. It is especially important to be POLITE when communicating with lawmakers. Rude or threatening calls or letters are never appropriate, and only hurt our cause. Good behavior is expected at hearings, so dress appropriately, and remember that unlike Jazz games applause and booing are not tolerated. Everyone needs to make a special effort to keep track of the legislators who support our positions. Let them know that you appreciate their votes, and support them at election time. If the proponents were serious about disarming violent criminals they would be enforcing existing laws, not complaining that they don't work and proposing more laws are needed. Legislators have heard about local polls supporting gun restrictions based on tainted questions. They might be interested in a national poll by the highly respected Zogby group which showed 61.6% support for better enforcement and only 34.7% feeling more gun laws are needed. Full text is available at http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20000207/zo/guns_1.html Please plan to attend this hearing if possible. And please contact committee members and politely but firmly insist that they OPPOSE HB 95. Check our prior Alerts in your E-mail, or on the USSC Website alert archives for more arguments against this bill. (R) Bud Bowman, Chairman dbowman@le.state.ut.us 435-586-8174 (R) Jack A. Seitz, Vice Chairman jseitz@le.state.ut.us 435-789-0650 (R) Loraine Pace lpace@le.state.ut.us 435-753-6154 (R) Blake D. Chard, bchard@le.state.ut.us 801-773-7474 (R) Carl Saunders, csaunder@le.state.ut.us 801-476-1110 (R) Nora Stephens, nstephen@le.state.ut.us 801-825-3792 (R) Susan Koehn, skoehn@le.state.ut.us 801-296-1761 (R) David L. Hogue, dhogue@le.state.ut.us 801-254-1668 (D) Perry L. Buckner, pbuckner@le.state.ut.us 801-964-8215 (D) Duane Bourdeaux, dbourdea@le.state.ut.us 801-596-8784 (D) Trisha Beck, tbeck@le.state.ut.us 801-572-2325. You can send a FAX to any house member at 801-538-1908 FUTURE BATTLES: We have heard reports that a bunch of gun bills may be scheduled for hearings at the same time by different committees next week, perhaps Thursday. We will keep you informed. It may or may not be necessary to have massive turnout at some or all of those. Today marks the halfway point of this session. So far we have escaped any serious infringements, and have two positive bills moving forward: (HB 199- frivolous lawsuit protection for manufacturers and sellers of guns and ammunition; and HB 91 up to $150 income tax credit for purchase of residential security containers- including gun safes.) Some previously shaky legislators look like they might support us now. A lot of mischief can occur in the remaining days, so be prepared to take action on short notice. We will keep you informed of what is going on. Watch for information on local meetings with your legislators, and sessions explaining how you can be a delegate to party conventions and help select good candidates. If this alert was forwarded to you by someone other than USSC you can sign up for alerts by sending an E-mail to addalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Please forward this e-mail to anyone you think may be interested. For anyone who does not have Internet access, the latest Utah legislative updates are available by telephone. The number is 801-299-7230. Visit our web-site at: http://www.UtahShootingSports.org for the latest news and membership applications. To be removed from the USSC E-Mail Action Alert list, send an e-mail to: dropalerts@UtahShootingSports.org Thanks for your time. Provided by the Utah Shooting Sports Council, Box 1975, Layton, UT 84041-6975 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: COA in danger of shutdown Date: 10 Feb 2000 09:58:11 -0700 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 03:03:53 -0700 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA09438; Thu, 10 Feb 2000 05:02:10 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200002101002.FAA09438@fs1.mainstream.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: noban@mainstream.net X-Divvy-no: 1 >Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2000 11:33:06 -0800 >From: Brian Puckett >MIME-Version: 1.0 >To: Brian Puckett >Subject: COA in danger of shutdown > >Citizens Of America—a unique organization performing an essential >function in the war to retain our firearms rights—is in danger of having >to shut down operations. > >Q: Why should you care if COA is forced to cease operations? > >A: Because the work Citizens Of America (COA) has accomplished is in >jeopardy of vanishing. And COA—or its duplicate—is CRUCIAL to the >gun-rights war. > >Q: Why is COA crucial? > >A: Because other gun rights organizations communicate almost exclusively >with their membership. COA is running a national pro-gun, pro-gun rights >public media campaign. > >Because COA says what needs to be said, and doesn’t fear media >attacks—COA is prepared to use such attacks to benefit gun owners. > >Because COA reaches out to ALL Americans—regardless of age, race, >religion, or sex. And until ALL Americans grasp what is happening and >change their minds about firearms, we’re going to continue to lose our >rights, piece by piece. > >Q: What are COA’s tactics? > >A: COA’s primary tactic is to use the mass communications media to >convince ALL Americans—by touching their HEARTS and MINDS—that > >-- more guns in the hands of citizens means less crime >-- anti-gunners are anti-self-defense >-- anti-gunners are usually brazen hypocrites >-- anti-gunners are harming you personally and America in general. > >Q: What has COA accomplished? > >A: In just over FOUR months, COA has produced and disseminated across >the country—FREE OF CHARGE—13 pro-gun rights radio ads. Are the ads >good? Good enough that people are: > >-- paying out of their own pockets to run our ads in their locale >-- placing the ads—or links to COA—on their own pro-2A websites >-- sending out COA updates and notices on their own email lists >-- volunteering (via our new program) to be the collection points for >pooling funds to run ads in their own cities >-- volunteering not just money but time, skill, and services to help >us >-- notifying us that when our first print ads to appear they will pay to >run them in newspapers and other publications. >-- calling radio talk show and requesting that they interview us, >which has resulted in COA officers giving 11 talk show interviews in the >last three months (since Oct.) with more scheduled. Some interviews were >on nationally syndicated shows (Steve Wolf’s Crime Talk, Tom Gresham’s >Gun Talk, Jeff Rense’s Sightings, and Ron Engelmans Engelman Overnight) > >What else? >Radio station managers are running COA ads free of charge as public >service announcements. And COA has been the subject of a positive >WorldNet Daily article by columnist Jon Dougherty. > >Q: So why is COA having funding problems? >A: First, because COA started operations without extensive financial >backing-- just a small grant of a few hundred dollars to build a >website. And Second, because COA is still too new to have established a >large donor base to support it. From the beginning, COA founders counted >on public support to achieve its goals and to grow. > >In just four months COA’s dedicated staff, its ultra-low overhead, and >its careful spending ofdonations, along with grass-roots help from >individuals all across America, have already enabled it to have a >national reach and impact. > >But we’ve hit a financial wall, and we need your help to break through. >In fact we’re unable to maintain even a status quo regarding day-to-day >operations. Without immediate help we’ll be forced to cease all planned >projects—and perhaps shut down completely. > >But with your support we can instantly proceed with our plans to reach >ALL Americans with our pro-gun, pro-gun rights messages. > >PLEASE CONSIDER THIS: > >This email posting reaches several thousand people. If every recipient >contributed just $20, COA’s ultra lean operational budget for the coming >year would be met. > >More than $20 if you can afford it would be appreciated, of course. > >You can contribute by credit card or e-gold on our website, >http://www.citizensofamerica.org >Or by check to Citizens Of America, 2118 Wilshire Blvd. #447, Santa >Monica, CA 90403. > >To those who have contributed—THANK YOU! > > >-- >Brian Puckett >President, Citizens Of America > >COA runs a national pro-firearm >media campaign --and YOU can help! > >Visit http://www.citizensofamerica.org > >You may have received a version of this message from the 2ANewsTeam. If >so, COA apologizes for the duplication. > - To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@mainstream.net, and as the body of the message (plain text, no HTML), send the following: unsubscribe noban email-address where email-address is the address under which you are subscribed. Report problems to owner-noban@mainstream.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: FW: Rep. John Swallow Date: 11 Feb 2000 11:05:49 -0700 FWIW John Swallow may be contacted at: Home: 801-572-8201 Office: 801-553-9805 Fax: 801-571-6545 Email: jswallow@le.state.ut.us Email: law@silversage.com ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control --------- Forwarded message ---------- A plea for needed assistance from ex-Sen. Bill Barton --- We need some help with two bills sponsored by Rep. John Swallow: HB 289, Unfair Government Competition and HB 401, Tuition Tax Credits. These bills have been sitting with no action and no text attached. John has indicated over this time that he is about to start them going, but they haven't moved. Both are important bills and need to start progressing or time will run out. If you agree with this, please contact John and urge him to get them going. He undoubtedly is very busy, but he needs to know these bills are important to Utah liberty and that we are depending him. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Fw: Why Guns? by L. Neil Smith Date: 11 Feb 2000 11:06:51 -0700 I thought you might find the following essay interesting. It is a couple of years old, but I just ran across it again. While you probably can't quote the whole thing to your favorite legislator, it might help you formulate responses when s/he says, after voting to further restrict your ability to defend yourself, "I would hope you would look at my overall voting record rather than basing your opinions/furture votes/etc on this one single vote." WHY GUNS? -- by L. Neil Smith -- From the "Webley Page" < http://www.webleyweb.com/lneil/ > Over the past 30 years, I've been paid to write almost two million words, every one of which, sooner or later, came back to the issue of guns and gun-ownership. Naturally, I've thought about the issue a lot, and it has always determined the way I vote. People accuse me of being a single-issue writer, a single-issue thinker, and a single-issue voter, but it isn't true. What I've chosen, in a world where there's never enough time and energy, is to focus on the one political issue which most clearly and unmistakably demonstrates what any politician -- or political philosophy – is made of, right down to the creamy liquid center. Make no mistake: all politicians -- even those ostensibly on the side of guns and gun ownership -- hate the issue and anyone, like me, who insists on bringing it up. They hate it because because it's an X-ray machine. It's a Vulcan mind-meld. It's the ultimate test to which any politician -- or political philosophy -- can be put. If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash -- for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you. If he isn't genuinely enthusiastic about his average constituent stuffing that weapon into a purse or pocket or tucking it under a coat and walking home without asking anybody's permission, he's a four-flusher, no matter what he claims. What his attitude -- toward your ownership and use of weapons -- conveys is his real attitude about you. And if he doesn't trust you, then why in the name of John Moses Browning should you trust him? If he doesn't want you to have the means of defending your life, do you want him in a position to control it? If he makes excuses about obeying a law he's sworn to uphold and defend -- the highest law of the land, the Bill of Rights -- do you want to entrust him with anything? If he ignores you, sneers at you, complains about you, or defames you, if he calls you names only he thinks are evil – like "Constitutionalist" -- when you insist that he account for him self, hasn't he betrayed his oath, isn't he unfit to hold office, and doesn't he really belong in jail? Sure, these are all leading questions. They're the questions that led me to the issue of guns and gun ownership as the clearest and most unmistakable demonstration of what any given politician -- or political philosophy -- is really made of. He may lecture you about the dangerous weirdos out there who shouldn't have a gun -- but what does that have to do with you? Why in the name of John Moses Browning should you be made to suffer for the misdeeds of others? Didn't you lay aside the infantile notion of group punishment when you left public school -- or the military? Isn't it an essentially European notion, anyway -- Prussian, maybe -- and certainly not what America was supposed to be all about? And if there are dangerous weirdos out there, does it make sense to deprive you of the means of protecting yourself from them? Forget about those other people, those dangerous weirdos, this is about you, and it has been, all along. Try it yourself: if a politician won't trust you, why should you trust him? If he's a man -- and you're not -- what does his lack of trust tell you about his real attitude toward women? If "he" happens to be a woman, what makes her so perverse that she's eager to render her fellow women helpless on the mean and seedy streets her policies helped create? Should you believe her when she says she wants to help you by imposing some infantile group health care program on you at the point of the kind of gun she doesn't want you to have? On the other hand -- or the other party -- should you believe anything politicians say who claim they stand for freedom, but drag their feet and make excuses about repealing limits on your right to own and carry weapons? What does this tell you about their real motives for ignoring voters and ramming through one infantile group trade agreement after another with other countries? Makes voting simpler, doesn't it? You don't have to study every issue -- health care, international trade -- all you have to do is use this X-ray machine, this Vulcan mind-meld, to get beyond their empty words and find out how politicians really feel. About you. And that, of course, is why they hate it. And that's why I'm accused of being a single-issue writer, thinker, and voter. But it isn't true, is it? L. Neil Smith is the award-winning author of Bretta Martyn, The Probability Broach, The Crystal Empire, Henry Martyn, The Lando Calrissian Adventures, and Pallas. He is also an NRA Life Member and founder of the Libertarian Second Amendment Caucus. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Model Leg. Letter Date: 11 Feb 2000 15:38:17 -0700 A couple quibbles should you adapt this to your own use: 1) I believe the Utah Constitution can only be amended by referendum rather than by initiative. 2) Since the polistatists have redefined "use" in case law to also include "keep", "bear", "carry", and "possess", this must be specifically refuted. Scott ----- Another excellent example of a rational, reasons pro-gun rights letter to a legislator. ---------- Dear NAME: Too often lawmakers seem to think they have to "do something, even if it's wrong." The cold hard facts are: 1. Lawmakers are not magicians. Prohibitive or restrictive laws only deter those who are not criminally inclined, and have little, if any, effect on those who are. 2. Vermont has no concealed carry law and enjoys a very low crime rate while the crime rate in other states seems to increase with the increase of restrictive firearms laws. England and Australia have experienced a catastrophic increase in crime since they banned firearms ownership, and for a very clear reason: disarming honest people makes them easy prey for criminals. 3. The right to self-protection is the most basic right of any creature, even one who has suffered mental illness. (The people who shot up the Triad Center and FHL were known to be violent.) 4. The Utah State Constitution is very clear on the subject: Sec. 6. [Right to bear arms.] The individual right of the people to keep and bear arms for security and defense of self, family, others, property, or the state, as well as for other lawful purposes shall not be infringed; but nothing herein shall prevent the Legislature from defining the lawful use of arms. 5. One of the statutory duties of the sheriff (17-22-1) is to make all arrests and to "(f) command the aid of as many inhabitants of his county as he considers necessary in the execution of these duties." Also, 76-8-307 makes it a crime to fail or refuse to aid a peace officer. How can this be if the people are disarmed? Those, such as Rep. Dave Jones, who claim that the majority of the people want more restrictive gun laws, seem to forget that the People of Utah, by initiative petition in November 1984, passed that amendment (Prop.5) and it became law in January 1985. The second clause concerning the "use" of arms is subordinate to the "keep and bear" clause. The Legislature may prohibit brandishing, threatening, or shooting road signs or property, etc., but is prohibited from infringing the right of anyone to "keep and bear" (possess and carry) arms. Therefore, all statutes, ordinances and laws restricting that right became null and void on 1 January 1985. It troubles me that so many public officials seem unable to comprehend that. I realize this is your first term in the legislature, and you may not be ready to take a heroic action like proposing repeal of a whole flock of laws. However, you can and should oppose any new laws that are clearly unconstitutional such as HB 383 and SB 72. I pledge to do what I can to support you with material and testimony before the committee. Please contact me so I can help you. Respectfully, - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Hatch's Disappointment Date: 11 Feb 2000 21:31:55 -0700 ----- PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY! Orrin Hatch laments the Clinton/Reno indifference to enforcement of federal gun "laws". The bottom line for Hatch is the following: "It is a federal crime to transfer or possess a semi-automatic assault weapon. The Clinton Justice Department prosecuted only four cases under this law in 1998 and only four in 1997." http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/state126.html (see the last sentence) So there you have it. Orrin Hatch in his own, verifiable words. He believes it is "terrible" that private citizens who exercise their constitutionally-protected right to own defensive firearms are not being prosecuted and imprisoned. Let's all recognize and remember Orrin's treachery by becoming state delegates on March 27, and attending the State Convention on May 6. Remember: You must be a registered Republican to be eligible. Arnold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-11 - Committee alert, Another Hatch meeting Date: 11 Feb 2000 21:47:45 -0700 Monday hearings! More threats to gun rights Another meeting with Hatch WHAT YOU MUST DO! MONDAY HEARINGS! Both of the following bills will be heard by the Senate Transportation and Public Safety Committee at 8 AM Monday, Room 403. Support for gun rights in this committee is not strong, so you need to be actively involved! 1. HB 199 Limit on Gun Manufacturer's Liability - Throckmorton (R) This is our one GOOD BILL for this session. It prohibits frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers. 2. SB 200 Mental Health Commitment Amendments - Montgomery (R) This is advertised as a mental health bill, but it's really "stealth gun control"! SB 200 would make it MUCH easier to commit people for "mental health treatment". It would allow commitment (and forced drugging) for anyone who "poses a substantial danger to himself or others" as a result of a "mental illness". It does not require that the danger be immediate or that it be a physical danger. (The current standard is IMMEDIATE threat of PHYSICAL INJURY.) Anyone involuntarily committed loses his gun rights (for LIFE under Federal Brady or for the duration of the commitment under proposed Utah law). BCI can permanently revoke a CCW permit for anyone who has ever been committed. And remember that many psychiatrists consider those of us who own guns, or don't trust the government, to be "mentally ill". Commitment laws are a real Catch-22. If you deny that you're mentally ill and/or refuse to take drugs, that's considered presumptive evidence of an "inability to engage in rational decision-making" - which is grounds for commitment. There is NO JURY TRIAL for commitment hearings, the standard is "clear and convincing evidence" (not "beyond a reasonable doubt"), and hearsay evidence and suppositions are admissible evidence. And there are no objective tests for mental illness, so there is no hard evidence - only opinions. UTGuns believes this bill is unconstitutional and abusive, and may lead to Soviet-style incarceration and drugging of people with "politically incorrect" ideas. It may also be used as a roundabout way to revoke the gun rights of people who have not committed crimes. Even the Office of Legislative Research and General Counsel believes this bill raises constitutional concerns! ANOTHER BAD BILL HB 372 - Residency Requirement for Concealed Carry Permit, G. Cox (D) This bill would require that a person be a legal resident of Utah in order to apply for a concealed carry permit. It does not address what would happen to current permittees who are non-residents or to residents who move out of state. It appears that Rep. Cox wants to kill Utah's tourist industry - and maybe even its tourists! Why should visitors to our ski slopes, national parks, and the Olympics be denied the right to self-defense? What happens to people who live in Utah part, but not all, of the year, and don't qualify for "legal residence"? We know the answer to those questions from Florida's experience. Florida's tourists and "snowbirds" were singled out for attack by vicious criminals until the state expanded its permit law to include non-residents. It's hard to imagine why anyone would support a bill designed to disarm innocent people and injure one of Utah's major industries. ANOTHER MEETING WITH SEN. HATCH From Charles Hardy: Yesterday, I received an invitation to a second Hatch town meeting. This one is scheduled for Monday, Feb. 14. I forgot to bring the invite with me this morning, but if I remember correctly, it is at the Sandy City Town Hall and is scheduled for 4:30 pm. Just in case anyone can't make the one downtown or wants to attend both. Charles (There's also a meeting Wednesday evening at 7 PM at the Hilton Hotel. Please try to attend one or both!) WHAT YOU MUST DO! 1. If you do nothing else this weekend, CALL the members of the Senate Transportation and Public Safety Committee! Insist that they SUPPORT HB 199 (gun lawsuits) and OPPOSE SB 200 (civil commitment). Members are: Sen. Michael Waddoups, Chair 801-967-0225 mwaddoup@le.state.ut.us President Lane Beattie 801-292-7406 lbeattie@le.state.ut.us Sen. R. Mont Evans 801-254-2655 mevans@le.state.ut.us Sen. Karen Hale 801-485-6642 khale@le.state.ut.us Sen. Paula F. Julander 801-363-0868 prjuland@msn.com Sen. Peter C. Knudson 435-723-2035 pknudson@le.state.ut.us Sen. Eddie "Ed" P. Mayne 801-968-7756 emayne@le.state.ut.us Sen. David H. Steele 801-825-3033 dsteele@le.state.ut.us The most important person to contact is Sen. Waddoups, the committee chair, who claims to be supportive of gun rights, despite last year's shameful sponsorship of the Olympic Gun Ban. 2. Call Rep. Gary Cox 801-967-9760, gcox@le.state.ut.us and garyc@wjordan.com and ask him to kill HB 372. 3. Plan to attend at least one of the meetings with Sen. Hatch so we can let him know that Utahns are disgusted with his sponsorship and support of gun control bills! Does he REALLY want to be Dave Jones's role model? Have a GREAT weekend! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com . Please check out the new site! This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry larsen" Subject: Re: Hatch's Disappointment Date: 12 Feb 2000 12:45:50 -0700 We know there is no law against semi-automatic assault weapon being sold. The word is automatic, a missprint. in anycase we need a different senator, and we need to get rid of Mike "gun control" Leavett. You republicans press on. Larry ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 9:31 PM > ----- > Subject: Hatch's Disappointment > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:25:24 -0700 > From: "Arnold J. Gaunt" > > PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY! > > Orrin Hatch laments the Clinton/Reno indifference to enforcement > of federal gun "laws". The bottom line for Hatch is the following: > > "It is a federal crime to transfer or possess a semi-automatic > assault weapon. The Clinton Justice Department prosecuted only > four cases under this law in 1998 and only four in 1997." > > http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/state126.html (see the last sentence) > > So there you have it. Orrin Hatch in his own, verifiable words. > He believes it is "terrible" that private citizens who exercise > their constitutionally-protected right to own defensive firearms > are not being prosecuted and imprisoned. > > Let's all recognize and remember Orrin's treachery by becoming > state delegates on March 27, and attending the State Convention > on May 6. Remember: You must be a registered Republican to be > eligible. > > Arnold > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: Re: Hatch's Disappointment Date: 12 Feb 2000 14:17:29 -0700 Larry, how do you intend to get a new, and preferably better, Senator and Governor? Via the Democratic Party? I'm not so sure it was a misprint. It could instead have been an assertion of Sen. Hatch's desires for national firearms law. We'll have to ask him if he thinks we should only be allowed single shots. Perhaps we should only have flintlock muzzle loaders at most. Scott ----- We know there is no law against semi-automatic assault weapon being sold. The word is automatic, a missprint. in anycase we need a different senator, and we need to get rid of Mike "gun control" Leavett. You republicans press on. Larry ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 9:31 PM > ----- > Subject: Hatch's Disappointment > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:25:24 -0700 > From: "Arnold J. Gaunt" > PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY! > Orrin Hatch laments the Clinton/Reno indifference to enforcement > of federal gun "laws". The bottom line for Hatch is the following: > "It is a federal crime to transfer or possess a semi-automatic > assault weapon. The Clinton Justice Department prosecuted only > four cases under this law in 1998 and only four in 1997." > http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/state126.html (see the last sentence) > So there you have it. Orrin Hatch in his own, verifiable words. > He believes it is "terrible" that private citizens who exercise > their constitutionally-protected right to own defensive firearms > are not being prosecuted and imprisoned. > Let's all recognize and remember Orrin's treachery by becoming > state delegates on March 27, and attending the State Convention > on May 6. Remember: You must be a registered Republican to be > eligible. > Arnold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "larry larsen" Subject: Re: Hatch's Disappointment Date: 12 Feb 2000 14:46:04 -0700 Scott, I would hope that the good Senator who, if you ask him, says "we wouldn't even have a 2nd amendment" if it weren't for him, would know the difference between a semi and full automatic rifle, and thereby, know that there is no law, at least in Utah, against owning such a device as a semi-automatic "assault" weapon. So that clears that up, it must be an aids fault. As to your second inquires as to how to replace and or get a fine Gov, and Senator, I think you are on the right track, get the freedom loving Republicans out and make them delegates, of course you will have to get the school teachers to bum over. Larry ----- Original Message ----- Cc: Arnold J. Gaunt Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2000 2:17 PM > Larry, how do you intend to get a new, and preferably better, > Senator and Governor? Via the Democratic Party? I'm not so sure > it was a misprint. It could instead have been an assertion of > Sen. Hatch's desires for national firearms law. We'll have to > ask him if he thinks we should only be allowed single shots. > Perhaps we should only have flintlock muzzle loaders at most. > > Scott > > ----- > Subject: Re: Hatch's Disappointment > Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:45:50 -0700 > From: "larry larsen" > To: > > We know there is no law against semi-automatic assault weapon being sold. > The word is automatic, a missprint. in anycase we need a different > senator, and we need to get rid of Mike "gun control" Leavett. You > republicans press on. > Larry > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Bergeson > To: Utah Firearms > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 9:31 PM > Subject: FW: Hatch's Disappointment > > > ----- > > Subject: Hatch's Disappointment > > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:25:24 -0700 > > From: "Arnold J. Gaunt" > > > PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY! > > > Orrin Hatch laments the Clinton/Reno indifference to enforcement > > of federal gun "laws". The bottom line for Hatch is the following: > > > "It is a federal crime to transfer or possess a semi-automatic > > assault weapon. The Clinton Justice Department prosecuted only > > four cases under this law in 1998 and only four in 1997." > > > http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/state126.html (see the last sentence) > > > So there you have it. Orrin Hatch in his own, verifiable words. > > He believes it is "terrible" that private citizens who exercise > > their constitutionally-protected right to own defensive firearms > > are not being prosecuted and imprisoned. > > > Let's all recognize and remember Orrin's treachery by becoming > > state delegates on March 27, and attending the State Convention > > on May 6. Remember: You must be a registered Republican to be > > eligible. > > > Arnold > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Re: Hatch's Disappointment Date: 13 Feb 2000 00:35:42 -0700 ----- Scott, Hatch knows exactly what he is saying, and it is not a misprint. Under the 1994 "Crime" Bill, it is illegal to transfer or possess any "semiautomatic assault rifle" (e.g. AR-15, Uzi, etc.) manufactured after the date of enactment of the bill. If you possess a semiauto AR-15 manufactured in 1996, complete with flash suppressor and bayonet lug, off you go to federal prison. No criminal intent or action is required. Hatch believes that the keeping and bearing of arms is a crime, and should be prosecuted. Arnold Scott Bergeson wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------------ > Subject: Re: Hatch's Disappointment > Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:46:04 -0700 > From: "larry larsen" > Reply-To: utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com > To: > References: <38A5CDE9.97A978E5@uswest.net> > Scott, > I would hope that the good Senator who, if you ask him, says "we wouldn't > even have a 2nd amendment" if it weren't for him, would know the difference > between a semi and full automatic rifle, and thereby, know that there is > no law, at least in Utah, against owning such a device as a semi-automatic > "assault" weapon. So that clears that up, it must be an aids fault. As to > your second inquires as to how to replace and or get a fine Gov, and > Senator, I think you are on the right track, get the freedom loving > Republicans out and make them delegates, of course you will have to get > the school teachers to bum over. > Larry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Scott Bergeson > To: Utah Firearms > Cc: Arnold J. Gaunt > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2000 2:17 PM > Subject: Re: Hatch's Disappointment > > Larry, how do you intend to get a new, and preferably better, > > Senator and Governor? Via the Democratic Party? I'm not so sure > > it was a misprint. It could instead have been an assertion of > > Sen. Hatch's desires for national firearms law. We'll have to > > ask him if he thinks we should only be allowed single shots. > > Perhaps we should only have flintlock muzzle loaders at most. > > Scott > > ----- > > Subject: Re: Hatch's Disappointment > > Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 12:45:50 -0700 > > From: "larry larsen" > > To: > > We know there is no law against semi-automatic assault weapon being sold. > > The word is automatic, a missprint. in anycase we need a different > > senator, and we need to get rid of Mike "gun control" Leavett. You > > republicans press on. > > Larry > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Scott Bergeson > > To: Utah Firearms > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 9:31 PM > > Subject: FW: Hatch's Disappointment > > > ----- > > > Subject: Hatch's Disappointment > > > Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2000 21:25:24 -0700 > > > From: "Arnold J. Gaunt" > > > PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY! > > > Orrin Hatch laments the Clinton/Reno indifference to enforcement > > > of federal gun "laws". The bottom line for Hatch is the following: > > > "It is a federal crime to transfer or possess a semi-automatic > > > assault weapon. The Clinton Justice Department prosecuted only > > > four cases under this law in 1998 and only four in 1997." > > > http://www.senate.gov/~hatch/state126.html (see the last sentence) > > > So there you have it. Orrin Hatch in his own, verifiable words. > > > He believes it is "terrible" that private citizens who exercise > > > their constitutionally-protected right to own defensive firearms > > > are not being prosecuted and imprisoned. > > > Let's all recognize and remember Orrin's treachery by becoming > > > state delegates on March 27, and attending the State Convention > > > on May 6. Remember: You must be a registered Republican to be > > > eligible. > > > Arnold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: McCain - From Neal Knox Date: 13 Feb 2000 00:39:49 -0700 ----- On Sat, 12 Feb 2000 14:20:42 EST, neal@nealknox.com (Neal Knox) wrote: Feb. 12 update -- Former New York Mayor Koch -- who rammed through the city's "assault weapon" registration law, which his successor, David Dinkins, used to confiscate those guns -- has joined the swelling ranks of Democrats saying they "would be comfortable with" John McCain as President. And McCain is on the cover of all three major news magazines this week. Even if I didn't know that McCain was largely responsible for last May's Republican cave-in on gun laws, his bedfellows and admirers would be making me extremely uncomfortable. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Weber County Lincoln Day Dinner Date: 13 Feb 2000 21:59:02 -0700 ----- A few notes of interest from the Weber County Lincoln Day Dinner on Saturday. Marty Stephens Expressed his appreciation for the great job that Mike Leavitt has done for the last 8 years. He supports his reelection wholeheartedly, and urges us to do the same. Orrin Hatch Stood at door and shook the hand of every attendee. (I don't believe I've ever seen Orrin doing this before. More election year conversion?) Believes that Bill Clinton and Al Gore are good people. Can work very effectively with Bill Clinton. He can be fooled into doing the right thing. (I haven't noticed). No one has fought more for the Second Amendment than he has over the last 23 years. He led fight against the Lautenberg amendment, but voted for it once it was incorporated in S. 254. Don't let two bit people from WA DC manipulate you (ie GOA). (It was ironic that Orrin spent as much time as he did on GOA if they are only of two bit importance). We don't understand the legislative process. It is necessary/right to sponsor gun control legislation like S. 254 because everything will be made OK in the Conference Committee. (Sure relieves me, how about you?) He gave up nothing to confirm Leavitt crony Ted Stewart. He is responsible for Ginsburg and Breyer being chosen as Supreme court justices. (Democrats have never had any problem in rejecting Supreme court appointees from Republican Presidents. Too bad the Republicans don't share the same commitment for Democratics Presidents.) We are talking about the survival of the Constitution this election. We therefore need OGH. Arnold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Gun buy back in Provo Date: 14 Feb 2000 16:51:49 -0700 d You might want to pass this along to anyone in Utah County interested in protested or maybe even being able to stop this waste of tax dollars. Provo police to buy back guns Goal is to decrease crime, accidental deaths and suicide By Frank Curreri Deseret News staff writer PROVO — Armed with a $21,000 federal grant, Provo police intend to purchase guns from residents next month in an effort to reduce crime, suicides and accidental deaths in the city. Police who will conduct the city's unprecedented "gun buybacks" hope to collect — and then destroy — nearly 300 guns. By contrast, the city seized 13 guns from criminals last year. "I think it's going to be interesting," said Provo Police Sgt. Lee Upchurch, who will oversee the project. "I have a gut feeling most of these guns will be guns that maybe weren't operable. Is it a good idea? Yeah. I think if a person doesn't feel comfortable with a gun in their home, they ought to turn it in. But I think it will be interesting to see what kinds of guns people turn in. Are we going to see any major assault rifles? I don't know. Actually, I'm just dying to see the first one because I don't know what to expect." The gun buyback is part of a $2.4 million program recently launched by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) to take firearms off the streets in 75 cities nationwide. Funding of Provo's buyback project was made possible by the Provo City Public Housing Authority, which diverted $15,000 of a HUD grant toward the plan. That prompted HUD to pitch in an additional $6,514. "This gun buyback in Provo will save lives," HUD Secretary Andrew Cuomo said in a prepared statement last week. HUD official Julie Fagan said the initiative is the only one of its kind in Utah this year. Relative to much larger cities scheduled to host federally funded gun buybacks — such as Miami, San Francisco and Newark, N.J. — Provo's crime rate is exceptionally low. For example, from 1996 through 1999, guns were involved in only three homicides in this city of 110,000, according to statistics proffered by Provo police. Federal officials estimate that guns are involved in 30,000 deaths in the U.S. each year — about 1,000 of them accidental and 18,000 by suicide. Violence or mishaps using guns also cause an estimated 100,000 injuries across the nation each year. As is the case nationally, suicide is far more prevalent than murder in Provo, with 32 people taking their own lives between 1995 and 1999 — 20 of them using a gun, according to police. Provo had an average of 55 assaults committed using guns between 1994 and 1998, with a high of 61 in 1994. Howell said police will give a maximum gift certificate of $50 per gun but added there is "talk of trying to increase that." Provo's Police Department is scheduled to host its gun buyback from 9 a.m. to noon March 11, and from 5 to 8 p.m. March 16, at the Eldred Center, 270 W. 500 North in Provo. Sellers do not have to be Provo residents but will have to show identification, Howell said. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: [Fwd: Gun buy back in Provo] Date: 15 Feb 2000 09:42:00 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6F10B9776EDECC1D7AB3D03E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Why is this application of federal funds not a violation of the 2nd Amendment? Is it even possible to violate that Amendment? Since the courts believe it doesn't apply to the States but only to the national government, yet anything the national government does is exempt from the entire Bill of Rights under the theory that Art. I Sect. 8 Clause 17 "exclusive Legislation" supercedes it, where does any practical application reside? Scott --------------6F10B9776EDECC1D7AB3D03E Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: shbergeson@mail-slkc.uswest.net Received: (qmail 12410 invoked by uid 0); 14 Feb 2000 23:54:47 -0000 Received: from mail8.uswest.net (204.147.80.26) by pop.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 23:54:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 34308 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2000 23:54:47 -0000 Received: from lists.xmission.com (198.60.22.7) by mail8.uswest.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2000 23:54:47 -0000 Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12KVK9-00011V-00 for utah-firearms-gooutt@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:54:37 -0700 Received: from [198.60.22.22] (helo=mail.xmission.com ident=root) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12KVK7-00011P-00 for utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:54:35 -0700 Received: from [205.231.101.195] (helo=m10.boston.juno.com) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 3.03 #3) id 12KVK7-00016E-00; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 16:54:35 -0700 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"UthjHSsh/wJQWrN1kw3jzpcaswWUUOElF22hSBDd1xFtmtMtdKQNhg=="> Received: (from utbagpiper@juno.com) by m10.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id EYTXF66Q; Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:51:52 EST Message-ID: <20000214.165150.193.36.utbagpiper@juno.com> Sender: owner-utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com X-Mailer: Juno 4.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-11,13-14,16,18,21,23,26,28-29,31,33,35,37,39,41,43-44,46-47,49-50,52,54-55,57,59,61,63-68 X-Juno-Att: 0 X-Juno-RefParts: 0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 d You might want to pass this along to anyone in Utah County interested in protested or maybe even being able to stop this waste of tax dollars. Provo police to buy back guns Goal is to decrease crime, accidental deaths and suicide By Frank Curreri Deseret News staff writer PROVO — Armed with a $21,000 federal grant, Provo police intend to purchase guns from residents next month in an effort to reduce crime, suicides and accidental deaths in the city. Police who will conduct the city's unprecedented "gun buybacks" hope to collect — and then destroy — nearly 300 guns. By contrast, the city seized 13 guns from criminals last year. "I think it's going to be interesting," said Provo Police Sgt. Lee Upchurch, who will oversee the project. "I have a gut feeling most of these guns will be guns that maybe weren't operable. Is it a good idea? Yeah. I think if a person doesn't feel comfortable with a gun in their home, they ought to turn it in. But I think it will be interesting to see what kinds of guns people turn in. Are we going to see any major assault rifles? I don't know. Actually, I'm just dying to see the first one because I don't know what to expect." The gun buyback is part of a $2.4 million program recently launched by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) to take firearms off the streets in 75 cities nationwide. Funding of Provo's buyback project was made possible by the Provo City Public Housing Authority, which diverted $15,000 of a HUD grant toward the plan. That prompted HUD to pitch in an additional $6,514. "This gun buyback in Provo will save lives," HUD Secretary Andrew Cuomo said in a prepared statement last week. HUD official Julie Fagan said the initiative is the only one of its kind in Utah this year. Relative to much larger cities scheduled to host federally funded gun buybacks — such as Miami, San Francisco and Newark, N.J. — Provo's crime rate is exceptionally low. For example, from 1996 through 1999, guns were involved in only three homicides in this city of 110,000, according to statistics proffered by Provo police. Federal officials estimate that guns are involved in 30,000 deaths in the U.S. each year — about 1,000 of them accidental and 18,000 by suicide. Violence or mishaps using guns also cause an estimated 100,000 injuries across the nation each year. As is the case nationally, suicide is far more prevalent than murder in Provo, with 32 people taking their own lives between 1995 and 1999 — 20 of them using a gun, according to police. Provo had an average of 55 assaults committed using guns between 1994 and 1998, with a high of 61 in 1994. Howell said police will give a maximum gift certificate of $50 per gun but added there is "talk of trying to increase that." Provo's Police Department is scheduled to host its gun buyback from 9 a.m. to noon March 11, and from 5 to 8 p.m. March 16, at the Eldred Center, 270 W. 500 North in Provo. Sellers do not have to be Provo residents but will have to show identification, Howell said. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - --------------6F10B9776EDECC1D7AB3D03E-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-14: URGENT COMMITTEE ALERT! Date: 15 Feb 2000 14:35:54 -0700 Happy Valentine's Day to all of you! Committee alert! Meetings with Sen. Hatch URGENT! YOU ARE NEEDED THIS WEDNESDAY! As we get closer to the end of the session, the pace will definitely pick up. This coming Wednesday is an important day for gun owners. FOUR bills will be heard Wednesday morning. Wednesday evening is the meeting with Sen. Hatch to discuss Second Amendment issues. PLEASE PLAN TO ATTEND AND TO CONTACT LEGISLATORS! Wednesday schedule Wednesday, Feb. 16th, 8 AM Rm 403 - Senate Transportation and Public Safety Committee. 1. SB 200 - Mental Health Commitment Amendments (Montgomery) This bill is stealth gun control. It would make it possible to commit virtually anyone for "mental illness". Once committed, a person loses his right to purchase or possess a firearm FOR LIFE under FEDERAL law. He can also lose a concealed carry permit under UTAH law. Current commitment laws are adequate since they allow the commitment and detention of anyone who poses an immediate threat to himself or others. Because there is almost no due process for commitment, this is a quick, easy, and inexpensive way to disarm and harass those with "politically incorrect" ideas. (This bill was heard in committee today, but was not voted upon. We expect a vote on Wednesday, although nothing is certain.) 2. HB 199 - Limits on Gun Manufacturers Liability (Throckmorton) This is our ONE good bill this session. It would prohibit frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers by government entities. (This bill was scheduled today but there was not enough time to discuss it.) 3. SB 32 - Concealed Permit Holders Requirements (R. Allen) This terrible bill would require that anyone applying for a concealed carry permit pass a marksmanship test. Sen. Allen apparently believes that failure to pass a marksmanship test is grounds for revoking the right to self-defense and the right to life. This is rather like saying that only physicians should be allowed to perform first aid. In most cases, a firearm used for self defense is never even fired - just the sight of a gun scares off criminals! SB 32 would also discriminate against the disabled, the elderly, women (who carry smaller, lighter, and therefore less accurate guns), and anyone else who can't afford an expensive competition quality firearm. PLEASE CONTACT MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE! OPPOSE SB 200 and SB 32! SUPPORT HB 199! Members of the committee are: Sen. Michael Waddoups, Chair 801-967-0225, mwaddoup@le.state.ut.us President Lane Beattie 801-292-7406, lbeattie@le.state.ut.us Sen. R. Mont Evans 801-254-2655, mevans@le.state.ut.us Sen. Karen Hale 801-485-6642, khale@le.state.ut.us Sen. Paula F. Julander 801-363-0868 prjuland@msn.com Sen. Peter C. Knudson 435-723-2035 pknudson@le.state.ut.us Sen. Eddie "Ed" P. Mayne 801-968-7756 emayne@le.state.ut.us Sen. David H. Steele 801-825-3033 dsteele@le.state.ut.us Sen. Waddoups is on record as saying he opposes SB 200 and supports HB 199. Sen. Mayne is on record as saying he opposes SB 200, and is leaning towards supporting HB 199. Senators Beattie, Evans and Steele need to be reminded that their OWN party platform OPPOSES gun control and supports individual rights! We need at least two (preferable three) members of this committee willing to commit to opposing gun control and supporting gun rights and human rights! YOUR presence, calls, letters, faxes, email, etc. CAN make the difference! Wednesday, Feb. 16, 8 AM, Room 225 House Health and Human Services Committee 1. SB 37 - School Surveys (Montgomery) SB 37 would allow schools to administer surveys asking personal questions to your children WITHOUT your knowledge or permission. Questions about firearms ownership, storage, etc. would be permitted. This bill was held in committee and may be voted on at any time. PLEASE contact members of the committee if you have not done so already and ask them to OPPOSE SB 37. Rep. Carl R. Saunders, Chair csaunder@le.state.ut.us 801-476-1110 Rep. Bryan Holladay, Vice Chair bhollada@le.state.ut.us 801-280-6404 Rep. Loretta Baca, lbaca@le.state.ut.us 801-487-2738 Rep. Trisha Beck tbeck@le.state.ut.us 801-572-2325 Rep. Jackie Biskupski jbiskups@le.state.ut.us 801-484-8369 Rep. Mary Carlson, mcarlson@le.state.ut.us 801-485-8612 Rep. Margaret Dayton mdayton@le.state.ut.us 801-221-0623 Rep. Kory Holdaway kholdawa@le.state.ut.us 801-964-6360 Rep. Becky Lockhart blockhar@le.state.ut.us 801-377-7428 Rep. Marlon O. Snow msnow@le.state.ut.us H 801-224-6163 W 801-486-7121 Rep. Nora B. Stephens nstephen@le.state.ut.us 801-825-3792 Rep. A. Lamont Tyler atyler@le.state.ut.us H 801-272-1218 W 801-581-6920 Rep. Richard L. Walsh rwalsh@le.state.ut.us 801-561-5169 No firearms bills are scheduled for committee hearings on Tuesday. Meetings with Sen. Hatch PLEASE plan to attend the Second Amendment meeting with Senator Hatch on Wednesday, Feb. 16 at 7 PM, at the Hilton Hotel, 150 West 500 South, SLC. There is a buffet at 5:30 PM, but I'm not sure whether that's open to the public. I attended this evening's Town Meeting with Sen. Hatch in Sandy. It was clear that Sen. Hatch would like us to believe that he's doing us a "favor" by voting for such horrors as a ban on high-capacity magazines, mandatory trigger locks, young adult gun bans, juvenile "Brady", and a variety of onerous regulations that would likely shut down gun shows. UTGuns disagrees. We have never seen a "good" gun control bill! Giving away our rights slowly is still giving away our rights! Please attend the meeting and help Sen. Hatch understand that the only acceptable response to gun control legislation is NO! Thanks for your support! You ARE having an effect, and many legislators have commented on the number of calls they have gotten from "gun people". Keep up the good work. Only 16 days left! Sarah - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Guns Date: 15 Feb 2000 14:38:37 -0700 ----- Senate Transportation and Public Safety Wed Feb 16, 8:00 AM Room 403 SB200 Mental Health Commitment Amendments (Sen Montgomery) They did not have a quorum last time to vote on it. AN ACT RELATING TO THE DIVISION OF MENTAL HEALTH, LOCAL, MENTAL, HEALTH AUTHORITIES, AND THE CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, REMOVING THE REQUIREMENT OF FINDING THAT A PERSON IS AN “IMMEDIATE” DANGER TO SELF OR OTHERS FOR CIVIL COMMITMENT AND SPECIFIED CRIMINAL COMMITMENTS; AND FURTHER AMENDING CRITERIA FOR CIVIL COMMITMENT. HB 199 Limits on Gun Manufacturer’s Liability (M. Throckmorton) AN ACT RELATING TO THE JUDICIAL CODE; PROHIBITING THE STATE AND ITS POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS FROM SUING FIREARM MANUFACTURERS. This one deserves our support. SB32 Concealed Permit Holders Requirements (R.Allen) AN ACT RELATING TO CONCEALED WEAPONS; REQUIRING FOR ISSUANCE OF A CONCEALED FIREARM PERMIT THAT THE APPLICANT DEMONSTRATE COMPETENCE BY HITTING A CERTAIN NUMBER OF TARGETS; AND MAKING CONFIRMING AMENDMENTS. SB225 Committee on Criminal Justice for Youth and Adults with Mental Retardation Sponsor: Lyle W. Hillyard AN ACT RELATING TO STATE AFFAIRS IN GENERAL; CREATING THE COMMITTEE ON CRIMINAL JUSTICE FOR YOUTH AND ADULTS WITH MENTAL RETARDATION WITHIN THE COMMISSION ON CRIMINAL AND JUVENILE JUSTICE; DEFINING MEMBERSHIP; DESIGNATING TERMS; PROVIDING FOR STAFFING; REQUIRING AN ANNUAL REPORT; AND PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: UTGuns leg alert for 2-14---Hearings tomorrow (Wednesday) Date: 15 Feb 2000 16:15:48 -0700 ---FORWARDED FROM UTGUNS LEG ALERTS----- Happy Valentine's Day to all of you! Committee alert! Meetings with Sen. Hatch URGENT! YOU ARE NEEDED THIS WEDNESDAY! As we get closer to the end of the session, the pace will definitely pick up. This coming Wednesday is an important day for gun owners. FOUR bills will be heard Wednesday morning. Wednesday evening is the meeting with Sen. Hatch to discuss Second Amendment issues. PLEASE PLAN TO ATTEND AND TO CONTACT LEGISLATORS! Wednesday schedule Wednesday, Feb. 16th, 8 AM Rm 403 - Senate Transportation and Public Safety Committee. 1. SB 200 - Mental Health Commitment Amendments (Montgomery) This bill is stealth gun control. It would make it possible to commit virtually anyone for "mental illness". Once committed, a person loses his right to purchase or possess a firearm FOR LIFE under FEDERAL law. He can also lose a concealed carry permit under UTAH law. Current commitment laws are adequate since they allow the commitment and detention of anyone who poses an immediate threat to himself or others. Because there is almost no due process for commitment, this is a quick, easy, and inexpensive way to disarm and harass those with "politically incorrect" ideas. (This bill was heard in committee today, but was not voted upon. We expect a vote on Wednesday, although nothing is certain.) 2. HB 199 - Limits on Gun Manufacturers Liability (Throckmorton) This is our ONE good bill this session. It would prohibit frivolous lawsuits against firearms manufacturers by government entities. (This bill was scheduled today but there was not enough time to discuss it.) 3. SB 32 - Concealed Permit Holders Requirements (R. Allen) This terrible bill would require that anyone applying for a concealed carry permit pass a marksmanship test. Sen. Allen apparently believes that failure to pass a marksmanship test is grounds for revoking the right to self-defense and the right to life. This is rather like saying that only physicians should be allowed to perform first aid. In most cases, a firearm used for self defense is never even fired - just the sight of a gun scares off criminals! SB 32 would also discriminate against the disabled, the elderly, women (who carry smaller, lighter, and therefore less accurate guns), and anyone else who can't afford an expensive competition quality firearm. PLEASE CONTACT MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE! OPPOSE SB 200 and SB 32! SUPPORT HB 199! Members of the committee are: Sen. Michael Waddoups, Chair 801-967-0225, mwaddoup@le.state.ut.us President Lane Beattie 801-292-7406, lbeattie@le.state.ut.us Sen. R. Mont Evans 801-254-2655, mevans@le.state.ut.us Sen. Karen Hale 801-485-6642, khale@le.state.ut.us Sen. Paula F. Julander 801-363-0868 prjuland@msn.com Sen. Peter C. Knudson 435-723-2035 pknudson@le.state.ut.us Sen. Eddie "Ed" P. Mayne 801-968-7756 emayne@le.state.ut.us Sen. David H. Steele 801-825-3033 dsteele@le.state.ut.us Sen. Waddoups is on record as saying he opposes SB 200 and supports HB 199. Sen. Mayne is on record as saying he opposes SB 200, and is leaning towards supporting HB 199. Senators Beattie, Evans and Steele need to be reminded that their OWN party platform OPPOSES gun control and supports individual rights! We need at least two (preferable three) members of this committee willing to commit to opposing gun control and supporting gun rights and human rights! YOUR presence, calls, letters, faxes, email, etc. CAN make the difference! Wednesday, Feb. 16, 8 AM, Room 225 House Health and Human Services Committee 1. SB 37 - School Surveys (Montgomery) SB 37 would allow schools to administer surveys asking personal questions to your children WITHOUT your knowledge or permission. Questions about firearms ownership, storage, etc. would be permitted. This bill was held in committee and may be voted on at any time. PLEASE contact members of the committee if you have not done so already and ask them to OPPOSE SB 37. Rep. Carl R. Saunders, Chair csaunder@le.state.ut.us 801-476-1110 Rep. Bryan Holladay, Vice Chair bhollada@le.state.ut.us 801-280-6404 Rep. Loretta Baca, lbaca@le.state.ut.us 801-487-2738 Rep. Trisha Beck tbeck@le.state.ut.us 801-572-2325 Rep. Jackie Biskupski jbiskups@le.state.ut.us 801-484-8369 Rep. Mary Carlson, mcarlson@le.state.ut.us 801-485-8612 Rep. Margaret Dayton mdayton@le.state.ut.us 801-221-0623 Rep. Kory Holdaway kholdawa@le.state.ut.us 801-964-6360 Rep. Becky Lockhart blockhar@le.state.ut.us 801-377-7428 Rep. Marlon O. Snow msnow@le.state.ut.us H 801-224-6163 W 801-486-7121 Rep. Nora B. Stephens nstephen@le.state.ut.us 801-825-3792 Rep. A. Lamont Tyler atyler@le.state.ut.us H 801-272-1218 W 801-581-6920 Rep. Richard L. Walsh rwalsh@le.state.ut.us 801-561-5169 No firearms bills are scheduled for committee hearings on Tuesday. Meetings with Sen. Hatch PLEASE plan to attend the Second Amendment meeting with Senator Hatch on Wednesday, Feb. 16 at 7 PM, at the Hilton Hotel, 150 West 500 South, SLC. There is a buffet at 5:30 PM, but I'm not sure whether that's open to the public. I attended this evening's Town Meeting with Sen. Hatch in Sandy. It was clear that Sen. Hatch would like us to believe that he's doing us a "favor" by voting for such horrors as a ban on high-capacity magazines, mandatory trigger locks, young adult gun bans, juvenile "Brady", and a variety of onerous regulations that would likely shut down gun shows. UTGuns disagrees. We have never seen a "good" gun control bill! Giving away our rights slowly is still giving away our rights! Please attend the meeting and help Sen. Hatch understand that the only acceptable response to gun control legislation is NO! Thanks for your support! You ARE having an effect, and many legislators have commented on the number of calls they have gotten from "gun people". Keep up the good work. Only 16 days left! Sarah ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: FYI: Hatch and S254 Date: 16 Feb 2000 13:05:22 -0700 Via "Jim Dexter" on Wed, 16 Feb 2000 11:50:14 -0700 This is the best of five similar alerts I received. ---------- Exposing Senators Orrin Hatch's total disregard for the U.S. Constitution and the amendments is obvious in his bill S254. Link to the article below. ----------------------- from the article: S. 254 imposes a mandatory one-year prison sentence on adults who violate the current federal prohibition on giving handguns to minors. Thus, a father who gives a family heirloom in a locked glass case to a son on the son's seventeenth birthday would spend a mandatory year in prison. Existing federal gun control law prohibits any use of records created for firearms regulation to be used to create a registry of gun owners. The Lautenberg Amendment to S. 254 in effect destroys this protection against the compilation of lists of people who exercise their constitutional rights. The Lautenberg Amendment applies to much more than gun shows. It ratifies the Clinton Administration's illegal practice of using the National Instant Check System to compile lists of gun buyers--including buyers who buy at gun stores, not at gun shows. Article: http://www.i2i.org/SuptDocs/Crime/unfair.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-16: More Hatch info Date: 16 Feb 2000 13:10:13 -0700 ----- For those of you who would like more information on Senator Hatch's S. 254 (Juvenile InJustice Bill), there's an excellent article at: http://www.i2i.org/SuptDocs/Crime/unfair.htm Consider yourself warned: It may give you nightmares! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com. Please check out the new site! This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: ALERT! YOUR HELP IS NEEDED! Date: 16 Feb 2000 13:23:43 -0700 ----- The following is posted on behalf of UTGuns and the Eagle Forum! SB 37, the awful School Survey bill, was defeated in committee today. However, the Eagle Forum believes it will be resurrected for another vote. PLEASE help us protect parental rights! Voting to USURP PARENTAL RIGHTS and INVADE FAMILY PRIVACY were: Representatives Beck, Biskupski, Carlson, Saunders, and Tyler. Voting FOR PARENTAL RIGHTS were Reps. Baca, Dayton, Holladay, Lockhart, M. Snow, N. Stephens and R. Walsh. Missing in action was Rep. Holdaway (reportedly seen in the building!) Thanks to the Eagle Forum for this committee report. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT YOU CONTACT MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE TO MAKE SURE THIS BILL STAYS DEAD! PLEASE contact committee members who voted against this bill and ask them to continue to oppose the bill. (Baca, Dayton, Holladay, Lockhart, M. Snow, N. Stephens, Walsh) Critical contacts: a) Rep. Baca: This is the first time (to my knowledge) that Rep. Baca has voted for parental rights, and she is taking a LOT of heat for bucking her own party. She NEEDS your thanks, support and encouragement! b) Rep. Holladay Rep. Holladay is reported to be wavering on this bill and needs thanks and encouragement to continue to do the right thing. c) Rep. Saunders Rep. Saunders needs to know that supporting SB 37 was a very bad decision that we will not forget. Should the bill be resurrected, we hope he will regain his good sense and oppose it. d) Rep. Holdaway Rep. Holdaway may be the "swing" vote should this bill be heard again. He needs to know that we expect him to support parent's rights! Contact information for House Health and Human Services Committee: Rep. Carl R. Saunders, Chair csaunder@le.state.ut.us 801-476-1110 Rep. Bryan Holladay, Vice Chair bhollada@le.state.ut.us 801-280-6404 Rep. Loretta Baca, lbaca@le.state.ut.us 801-487-2738 Rep. Trisha Beck tbeck@le.state.ut.us 801-572-2325 Rep. Jackie Biskupski jbiskups@le.state.ut.us 801-484-8369 Rep. Mary Carlson, mcarlson@le.state.ut.us 801-485-8612 Rep. Margaret Dayton mdayton@le.state.ut.us 801-221-0623 Rep. Kory Holdaway kholdawa@le.state.ut.us 801-964-6360 Rep. Becky Lockhart blockhar@le.state.ut.us 801-377-7428 Rep. Marlon O. Snow msnow@le.state.ut.us H 801-224-6163 W 801-486-7121 Rep. Nora B. Stephens nstephen@le.state.ut.us 801-825-3792 Rep. A. Lamont Tyler atyler@le.state.ut.us H 801-272-1218 W 801-581-6920 Rep. Richard L. Walsh rwalsh@le.state.ut.us 801-561-5169 **************************** We also need help with SB 72S2 - Terry Spencer's "Public Safety Amendments". This is an Unconstitutional ex post facto law. It revokes firearms rights for up to 10 years for a juvenile adjudicated delinquent for a felony level offense without a jury trial. It revokes firearms rights for LIFE for anyone found in unlawful possession of a controlled substance (even a single pain pill!) and a firearm at the same time, and for anyone dishonorably discharged from the military, even for "political" rather than "criminal" offenses, such as refusing to serve under a UN commander or refusing an unsafe vaccine. USSC and the NRA have decided to sell out our Constitution and our rights to appease Sen. "Gump" Spencer! Don't believe Sen. Spencer when he tell you he "has to" do what the federal government tells him to do. I guess he's never heard of state's rights. Our state legislators have the right and the responsibility to stand up to federal tyranny and the ever-increasing "federalization" of what are properly state concerns. Please contact members of the House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee and insist they OPPOSE SB 72S2! Bud Bowman, Chair 435-586-8174 Jack A. Seitz, Vice Chair 435-789-0650 Loraine Pace 435-753-6154 Blake D. Chard, 801-773-7474 Carl Saunders, 801-476-1110 Nora Stephens, 801-825-3792 Susan Koehn, 801-296-1761 David L. Hogue, 801-254-1668 Perry L. Buckner, 801-964-8215 Duane Bourdeaux, 801-596-8784 Trisha Beck, 801-572-2325 Thanks! Sarah - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-16: Today's votes, tomorrow's hearings, your help Date: 16 Feb 2000 15:21:09 -0700 More complete than the previously posted version. ------BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE------ Today's votes - 1.5 victories, 1.5 losses? Tomorrow's schedule (partial) WHAT YOU MUST DO! Special thanks to all of you who showed up for the committee hearings this morning! You DID make a difference, and your support is very much appreciated. I am truly overwhelmed and grateful that there are so many of you good people who care about FREEDOM! TODAY'S VOTES Thanks to Senate Transportation and Public Safety Committee Chair Michael Waddoups for his fine job of facilitating fair hearings. SB 200 - Mental health commitments (Montgomery) SB 200 allows the state to commit persons alleged to be mentally ill, even if they do NOT pose an immediate physical threat to themselves or others. It will make it possible to commit virtually anyone - and then revoke their firearms rights for life under federal law. Despite overwhelming opposition from members of the public (as opposed to government bureaucrats PAID to testify in favor of bigger and more intrusive government), this very scary bill passed out of committee favorably. Voting to REVOKE THE RIGHTS of people who have never committed a crime - without benefit of due process were: Senators HALE, JULANDER, and KNUDSON. Conspicuously ABSENT were Senators Beattie (who was in the building), Mont Evans, and Steele. (Beattie and Evans were also missing in action at the Monday hearing on this bill.) Voting FOR GUN RIGHTS AND HUMAN RIGHTS were Senators Waddoups and Mayne. This bill will now go to the Senate floor. HB 199 - Limits on Liability for Gun Manufacturers (Throckmorton) HB 199 protects gun manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits intended to enact gun control by putting gun manufacturers out of business. This good and necessary bill received overwhelming support from the public, with only Utahns Against Gun Violence offering opposition. HB 199 was also passed out of committee favorably. Voting to BANKRUPT GUN MANUFACTURERS with frivolous lawsuits were Senators HALE and JULANDER. Voting to protect manufacturers of lawful products and hold criminals responsible for their own behavior were Senators Knudson, Mayne and Waddoups. Senators Beattie, M. Evans and Steele were again absent. This bill will now go to the Senate floor. SB 37 - School Surveys (Montgomery) SB 37 would allow public schools to administer surveys asking personal questions (including questions about firearms) to students WITHOUT parental knowledge or permission. SB 37 was DEFEATED in committee today. However, many of those attending the hearing believe it will be resurrected at a future meeting for another vote. (Like vampires, some bad bills just won't stay dead!) Voting to USURP PARENTAL RIGHTS and INVADE FAMILY PRIVACY were: Representatives Beck, Biskupski, Carlson, Saunders, and Tyler. Voting FOR PARENTAL RIGHTS were Reps. Baca, Dayton, Holladay, Lockhart, M. Snow, N. Stephens and R. Walsh. Missing in action was Rep. Holdaway (also reportedly seen in the building!) Thanks to the Eagle Forum for this committee report. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT YOU CONTACT MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE TO MAKE SURE THIS BILL STAYS DEAD! (See below!) THURSDAY'S HEARINGS 8 AM - Thursday Feb. 17 House Judiciary Committee HB 372 - Residency Requirement for Concealed Carry Permit - G. Cox (D) This bill would require that a person be a legal resident of Utah in order to apply for a concealed carry permit. It does not address what would happen to current permittees who are non-residents or to residents who move out of state. It appears that Rep. Cox wants to kill Utah's tourist industry - and maybe even its tourists! His not terribly credible excuse is that Utah can't conduct adequate background checks on out of state residents. Since fingerprints are checked by the FBI, Utah is linked to the federal NICS system, and virtually all states have their records available on computer, this is a bit hard to accept. Why should visitors to our ski slopes, national parks, and the Olympics be denied the right to self-defense? What happens to people who live in Utah part, but not all, of the year, and don't qualify for "legal residence"? We know the answer to those questions from Florida's experience. Florida's tourists and "snowbirds" were singled out for attack by vicious criminals until the state expanded its permit law to include non-residents. It's hard to imagine why anyone would support a bill designed to disarm innocent people and injure one of Utah's major industries. 8 AM, Thursday, Feb. 17, Rm 225, House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee SB 72S2 - Public Safety Amendments - Spencer (R) This is an Unconstitutional ex post facto law. It revokes firearms rights for up to 10 years for a juvenile adjudicated delinquent for a felony level offense without a jury trial. It revokes firearms rights for LIFE for anyone found in unlawful possession of a controlled substance (even a single pain pill!) and a firearm at the same time, and for anyone dishonorably discharged from the military, even for “political” rather than “criminal” offenses. Don't be fooled by some so-called "gun rights" and disability groups that are willing to sacrifice our Constitution to appease the anti-gun crowd. And don't believe Sen. Spencer when he tell you he "has to" do what the federal government tells him to do. I guess he's never heard of state's rights. Our state legislators have the right and the responsibility to stand up to federal tyranny and the ever-increasing "federalization" of what are properly state concerns. PLEASE NOTE! The complete schedule for Thursday is not yet available. Please check the full schedule at http://www.le.state.ut.us. It should be available by about 4 PM. WHAT YOU MUST DO! 1. Call your OWN Senator and Senate President Beattie. Insist that they OPPOSE SB 200, and that they SUPPORT HB 199! All Senators can be reached at 801-538-1035, although it's better to call them at home. 2. Contact members of the House Judiciary Committee and insist that they OPPOSE HB 372. (See yesterday's alert for contact list. It's posted at http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/legalerts021500.html.) 3. Contact members of the House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee and INSIST that they OPPOSE SB 72S2. Make sure they know that USSC and the NRA do not speak for YOU - at least on this bill! (See yesterday's alert for contact info.) 4. We need to organize to keep SB 37 DEAD! PLEASE contact committee members who voted against this bill and ask them to continue to oppose the bill. (Baca, Dayton, Holladay, Lockhart, M. Snow, N. Stephens, Walsh) Critical contacts: a) Rep. Baca: This is the first time (to my knowledge) that Rep. Baca has voted for parental rights, and she is taking a LOT of heat for bucking her own party. She NEEDS your thanks, support and encouragement! b) Rep. Holladay Rep. Holladay is reported to be wavering on this bill and needs thanks and encouragement to continue to do the right thing. c) Rep. Saunders Rep. Saunders needs to know that supporting SB 37 was a very bad decision that we will not forget. Should the bill be resurrected, we hope he will regain his good sense and oppose it. d) Rep. Holdaway Rep. Holdaway may be the "swing" vote should this bill be heard again. He needs to know that we expect him to support parent's rights! Contact information for House Health and Human Services Committee: Rep. Carl R. Saunders, Chair csaunder@le.state.ut.us 801-476-1110 Rep. Bryan Holladay, Vice Chair bhollada@le.state.ut.us 801-280-6404 Rep. Loretta Baca, lbaca@le.state.ut.us 801-487-2738 Rep. Trisha Beck tbeck@le.state.ut.us 801-572-2325 Rep. Jackie Biskupski jbiskups@le.state.ut.us 801-484-8369 Rep. Mary Carlson, mcarlson@le.state.ut.us 801-485-8612 Rep. Margaret Dayton mdayton@le.state.ut.us 801-221-0623 Rep. Kory Holdaway kholdawa@le.state.ut.us 801-964-6360 Rep. Becky Lockhart blockhar@le.state.ut.us 801-377-7428 Rep. Marlon O. Snow msnow@le.state.ut.us H 801-224-6163 W 801-486-7121 Rep. Nora B. Stephens nstephen@le.state.ut.us 801-825-3792 Rep. A. Lamont Tyler atyler@le.state.ut.us H 801-272-1218 W 801-581-6920 Rep. Richard L. Walsh rwalsh@le.state.ut.us 801-561-5169 5. Please try to attend Thursday's committee meetings. 6. I hope to see (and meet) many of you at Sen. Hatch's "Town Meeting" this evening! Hilton Hotel, 7 or 7:30 PM (the invitations aren't consistent!) Thanks again for your hard work and support! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com. Please check out the new site! This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: UTGuns Leg alert 2-16 Date: 16 Feb 2000 14:35:56 -0700 Today's votes - 1.5 victories, 1.5 losses? Tomorrow's schedule (partial) WHAT YOU MUST DO! Special thanks to all of you who showed up for the committee hearings this morning! You DID make a difference, and your support is very much appreciated. I am truly overwhelmed and grateful that there are so many of you good people who care about FREEDOM! TODAY'S VOTES Thanks to Senate Transportation and Public Safety Committee Chair Michael Waddoups for his fine job of facilitating fair hearings. SB 200 - Mental health commitments (Montgomery) SB 200 allows the state to commit persons alleged to be mentally ill, even if they do NOT pose an immediate physical threat to themselves or others. It will make it possible to commit virtually anyone - and then revoke their firearms rights for life under federal law. Despite overwhelming opposition from members of the public (as opposed to government bureaucrats PAID to testify in favor of bigger and more intrusive government), this very scary bill passed out of committee favorably. Voting to REVOKE THE RIGHTS of people who have never committed a crime - without benefit of due process were: Senators HALE, JULANDER, and KNUDSON. Conspicuously ABSENT were Senators Beattie (who was in the building), Mont Evans, and Steele. (Beattie and Evans were also missing in action at the Monday hearing on this bill.) Voting FOR GUN RIGHTS AND HUMAN RIGHTS were Senators Waddoups and Mayne. This bill will now go to the Senate floor. HB 199 - Limits on Liability for Gun Manufacturers (Throckmorton) HB 199 protects gun manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits intended to enact gun control by putting gun manufacturers out of business. This good and necessary bill received overwhelming support from the public, with only Utahns Against Gun Violence offering opposition. HB 199 was also passed out of committee favorably. Voting to BANKRUPT GUN MANUFACTURERS with frivolous lawsuits were Senators HALE and JULANDER. Voting to protect manufacturers of lawful products and hold criminals responsible for their own behavior were Senators Knudson, Mayne and Waddoups. Senators Beattie, M. Evans and Steele were again absent. This bill will now go to the Senate floor. SB 37 - School Surveys (Montgomery) SB 37 would allow public schools to administer surveys asking personal questions (including questions about firearms) to students WITHOUT parental knowledge or permission. SB 37 was DEFEATED in committee today. However, many of those attending the hearing believe it will be resurrected at a future meeting for another vote. (Like vampires, some bad bills just won't stay dead!) Voting to USURP PARENTAL RIGHTS and INVADE FAMILY PRIVACY were: Representatives Beck, Biskupski, Carlson, Saunders, and Tyler. Voting FOR PARENTAL RIGHTS were Reps. Baca, Dayton, Holladay, Lockhart, M. Snow, N. Stephens and R. Walsh. Missing in action was Rep. Holdaway (also reportedly seen in the building!) Thanks to the Eagle Forum for this committee report. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT YOU CONTACT MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE TO MAKE SURE THIS BILL STAYS DEAD! (See below!) THURSDAY'S HEARINGS 8 AM - Thursday Feb. 17 House Judiciary Committee HB 372 - Residency Requirement for Concealed Carry Permit - G. Cox (D) This bill would require that a person be a legal resident of Utah in order to apply for a concealed carry permit. It does not address what would happen to current permittees who are non-residents or to residents who move out of state. It appears that Rep. Cox wants to kill Utah's tourist industry - and maybe even its tourists! His not terribly credible excuse is that Utah can't conduct adequate background checks on out of state residents. Since fingerprints are checked by the FBI, Utah is linked to the federal NICS system, and virtually all states have their records available on computer, this is a bit hard to accept. Why should visitors to our ski slopes, national parks, and the Olympics be denied the right to self-defense? What happens to people who live in Utah part, but not all, of the year, and don't qualify for "legal residence"? We know the answer to those questions from Florida's experience. Florida's tourists and "snowbirds" were singled out for attack by vicious criminals until the state expanded its permit law to include non-residents. It's hard to imagine why anyone would support a bill designed to disarm innocent people and injure one of Utah's major industries. 8 AM, Thursday, Feb. 17, Rm 225, House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee SB 72S2 - Public Safety Amendments - Spencer (R) This is an Unconstitutional ex post facto law. It revokes firearms rights for up to 10 years for a juvenile adjudicated delinquent for a felony level offense without a jury trial. It revokes firearms rights for LIFE for anyone found in unlawful possession of a controlled substance (even a single pain pill!) and a firearm at the same time, and for anyone dishonorably discharged from the military, even for “political” rather than “criminal” offenses. Don't be fooled by some so-called "gun rights" and disability groups that are willing to sacrifice our Constitution to appease the anti-gun crowd. And don't believe Sen. Spencer when he tell you he "has to" do what the federal government tells him to do. I guess he's never heard of state's rights. Our state legislators have the right and the responsibility to stand up to federal tyranny and the ever-increasing "federalization" of what are properly state concerns. PLEASE NOTE! The complete schedule for Thursday is not yet available. Please check the full schedule at http://www.le.state.ut.us. It should be available by about 4 PM. WHAT YOU MUST DO! 1. Call your OWN Senator and Senate President Beattie. Insist that they OPPOSE SB 200, and that they SUPPORT HB 199! All Senators can be reached at 801-538-1035, although it's better to call them at home. 2. Contact members of the House Judiciary Committee and insist that they OPPOSE HB 372. (See yesterday's alert for contact list. It's posted at http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/legalerts021500.html.) 3. Contact members of the House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee and INSIST that they OPPOSE SB 72S2. Make sure they know that USSC and the NRA do not speak for YOU - at least on this bill! (See yesterday's alert for contact info.) 4. We need to organize to keep SB 37 DEAD! PLEASE contact committee members who voted against this bill and ask them to continue to oppose the bill. (Baca, Dayton, Holladay, Lockhart, M. Snow, N. Stephens, Walsh) Critical contacts: a) Rep. Baca: This is the first time (to my knowledge) that Rep. Baca has voted for parental rights, and she is taking a LOT of heat for bucking her own party. She NEEDS your thanks, support and encouragement! b) Rep. Holladay Rep. Holladay is reported to be wavering on this bill and needs thanks and encouragement to continue to do the right thing. c) Rep. Saunders Rep. Saunders needs to know that supporting SB 37 was a very bad decision that we will not forget. Should the bill be resurrected, we hope he will regain his good sense and oppose it. d) Rep. Holdaway Rep. Holdaway may be the "swing" vote should this bill be heard again. He needs to know that we expect him to support parent's rights! Contact information for House Health and Human Services Committee: Rep. Carl R. Saunders, Chair csaunder@le.state.ut.us 801-476-1110 Rep. Bryan Holladay, Vice Chair bhollada@le.state.ut.us 801-280-6404 Rep. Loretta Baca, lbaca@le.state.ut.us 801-487-2738 Rep. Trisha Beck tbeck@le.state.ut.us 801-572-2325 Rep. Jackie Biskupski jbiskups@le.state.ut.us 801-484-8369 Rep. Mary Carlson, mcarlson@le.state.ut.us 801-485-8612 Rep. Margaret Dayton mdayton@le.state.ut.us 801-221-0623 Rep. Kory Holdaway kholdawa@le.state.ut.us 801-964-6360 Rep. Becky Lockhart blockhar@le.state.ut.us 801-377-7428 Rep. Marlon O. Snow msnow@le.state.ut.us H 801-224-6163 W 801-486-7121 Rep. Nora B. Stephens nstephen@le.state.ut.us 801-825-3792 Rep. A. Lamont Tyler atyler@le.state.ut.us H 801-272-1218 W 801-581-6920 Rep. Richard L. Walsh rwalsh@le.state.ut.us 801-561-5169 5. Please try to attend Thursday's committee meetings. 6. I hope to see (and meet) many of you at Sen. Hatch's "Town Meeting" this evening! Hilton Hotel, 7 or 7:30 PM (the invitations aren't consistent!) Thanks again for your hard work and support! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com. Please check out the new site! This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: From UTGuns and the Eagle Forumn Fw: ALERT! YOUR HELP IS NEEDED! Date: 16 Feb 2000 14:37:59 -0700 ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control --------- Forwarded message ---------- The following is posted on behalf of UTGuns and the Eagle Forum! SB 37, the awful School Survey bill, was defeated in committee today. However, the Eagle Forum believes it will be resurrected for another vote. PLEASE help us protect parental rights! Voting to USURP PARENTAL RIGHTS and INVADE FAMILY PRIVACY were: Representatives Beck, Biskupski, Carlson, Saunders, and Tyler. Voting FOR PARENTAL RIGHTS were Reps. Baca, Dayton, Holladay, Lockhart, M. Snow, N. Stephens and R. Walsh. Missing in action was Rep. Holdaway (reportedly seen in the building!) Thanks to the Eagle Forum for this committee report. IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT YOU CONTACT MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE TO MAKE SURE THIS BILL STAYS DEAD! PLEASE contact committee members who voted against this bill and ask them to continue to oppose the bill. (Baca, Dayton, Holladay, Lockhart, M. Snow, N. Stephens, Walsh) Critical contacts: a) Rep. Baca: This is the first time (to my knowledge) that Rep. Baca has voted for parental rights, and she is taking a LOT of heat for bucking her own party. She NEEDS your thanks, support and encouragement! b) Rep. Holladay Rep. Holladay is reported to be wavering on this bill and needs thanks and encouragement to continue to do the right thing. c) Rep. Saunders Rep. Saunders needs to know that supporting SB 37 was a very bad decision that we will not forget. Should the bill be resurrected, we hope he will regain his good sense and oppose it. d) Rep. Holdaway Rep. Holdaway may be the "swing" vote should this bill be heard again. He needs to know that we expect him to support parent's rights! Contact information for House Health and Human Services Committee: Rep. Carl R. Saunders, Chair csaunder@le.state.ut.us 801-476-1110 Rep. Bryan Holladay, Vice Chair bhollada@le.state.ut.us 801-280-6404 Rep. Loretta Baca, lbaca@le.state.ut.us 801-487-2738 Rep. Trisha Beck tbeck@le.state.ut.us 801-572-2325 Rep. Jackie Biskupski jbiskups@le.state.ut.us 801-484-8369 Rep. Mary Carlson, mcarlson@le.state.ut.us 801-485-8612 Rep. Margaret Dayton mdayton@le.state.ut.us 801-221-0623 Rep. Kory Holdaway kholdawa@le.state.ut.us 801-964-6360 Rep. Becky Lockhart blockhar@le.state.ut.us 801-377-7428 Rep. Marlon O. Snow msnow@le.state.ut.us H 801-224-6163 W 801-486-7121 Rep. Nora B. Stephens nstephen@le.state.ut.us 801-825-3792 Rep. A. Lamont Tyler atyler@le.state.ut.us H 801-272-1218 W 801-581-6920 Rep. Richard L. Walsh rwalsh@le.state.ut.us 801-561-5169 **************************** We also need help with SB 72S2 - Terry Spencer's "Public Safety Amendments" This is an Unconstitutional ex post facto law. It revokes firearms rights for up to 10 years for a juvenile adjudicated delinquent for a felony level offense without a jury trial. It revokes firearms rights for LIFE for anyone found in unlawful possession of a controlled substance (even a single pain pill!) and a firearm at the same time, and for anyone dishonorably discharged from the military, even for "political" rather than "criminal" offenses, such as refusing to serve under a UN commander or refusing an unsafe vaccine. USSC and the NRA have decided to sell out our Constitution and our rights to appease Sen. "Gump" Spencer! Don't believe Sen. Spencer when he tell you he "has to" do what the federal government tells him to do. I guess he's never heard of state's rights. Our state legislators have the right and the responsibility to stand up to federal tyranny and the ever-increasing "federalization" of what are properly state concerns. Please contact members of the House Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee and insist they OPPOSE SB 72S2! Bud Bowman, Chair 435-586-8174 Jack A. Seitz, Vice Chair 435-789-0650 Loraine Pace 435-753-6154 Blake D. Chard, 801-773-7474 Carl Saunders, 801-476-1110 Nora Stephens, 801-825-3792 Susan Koehn, 801-296-1761 David L. Hogue, 801-254-1668 Perry L. Buckner, 801-964-8215 Duane Bourdeaux, 801-596-8784 Trisha Beck, 801-572-2325 Thanks! Sarah To Post a message, send it to: gopconservatives@eGroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: gopconservatives-unsubscribe@eGroups.com bargainclothing.com 20-70% off retail prices Junior, missy and plus sizes http://click.egroups.com/1/1461/2/_/97595/_/950731941/ -- 20 megs of disk space in your group's Document Vault -- http://www.egroups.com/docvault/gopconservatives/?m=1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: charles hardy Subject: Delegate training--Fw: Please Read, Please Come, and Bring your conservative friends Date: 17 Feb 2000 15:38:18 -0700 Short notice, but I only got it today.. ================================================================== Charles C. Hardy Utah Coordinator--Women Against Gun Control --------- Forwarded message ---------- Just a reminder about the Meet-the-Candidate night in the Bountiful Library (725 S. Main) tonight at 6:30 p.m. This is an excellent opportunity to meet Frank Mylar, an wonderfully conservative candidate running for Attorney General; Steve Stromness, a long-time activist challenging Leavitt; Greg Hawkins (or possibly his representative), also a very conservative candidate who is challenging Orrin Hatch. These people are sacrificing considerably to provide you someone DECENT to vote for. I hope that you'll come out and learn how you can help them. Following the meet-the-candidate part of the meeting, we will also be showing a video on how to become a delegate. This is our most POWERFUL tool. With only 60% of delegate votes at Convention, Leavitt and Hatch are OUT. It is not hard at all to become a delegate. With several hundred more people at these conventions, we can ensure victory for FREEDOM. This small sacrifice on your part can pay BIG dividends in how many of your liberties disappear in the next four to six years. Do you want more of what has been going on? It is sure to continue if you do not support this effort. Please don't let others carry all the weight for you. We can't do it without your help. Dave Quotes for the Day: Ever since I arrived at the state of manhood and acquainted myself with the general history of mankind, I have felt a sincere passion for liberty. The history of nations doomed to perpetual slavery, in consequence of yielding up to tyrants their natural-born liberties, I read with a sort of philosophical horror; so that the first systematical and bloody attempt, at Lexington, to enslave America, thoroughly electrified my mind, and fully determined me to take part with my country. --Ethan Allen ---Quoted in the Beards' Basic History. I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachment of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations. --James Madison - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: McCain Has Strange Friends Date: 18 Feb 2000 00:02:34 -0700 ----- McCain Has Strange Friends Former New York Mayor Koch -- who rammed through the city's "assault weapon" registration law, which his successor, David Dinkins, used to confiscate those guns -- has joined the swelling ranks of Democrats saying they "would be comfortable with" John McCain as President. And McCain is on the cover of all three major news magazines this week. Even if I didn't know that McCain was largely responsible for last May's Republican cave-in on gun laws, his bedfellows and admirers would be making me extremely uncomfortable. McCain breathed new life into the Juvenile Justice Bill's anti-gun amendments, after it had been KILLED. McCain and 4 other moderate Republicans said they would vote for the Lautenberg gun show ban bill unless the Republican Leadership brought up a bill. They did and it passed the Senate. McCain told the present Second Vice President of NRA that he would never forget what NRA had done in the 1994 election. He then cosponsored the McCain Feingold Campaign Finance bill. This bill would prevent all independent groups such as NRA, Christian Coalition, Right to Life and other conservative groups from doing effective election campaigns. They could not report the voting records of candidates 60 days prior to the election. ALL elections would be tilted toward anti-gun liberals. George W. Bush did say in the debate last night if you took the guns from law abiding citizens only the criminal would have guns. Grandtime@aol.com (Rich Kuchinsky) Speaking for myself, on my own time, on my own computer, in my own home. My views do not necessarily represent the views of anyone I am associated with or work for on a part-time basis. --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God." - William Penn; Thomas Jefferson's personal seal 1776 --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- --<>-- --<<<+>>>-- --<>-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: [Fwd: [gopconservatives] gun news bad] Date: 18 Feb 2000 09:33:45 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------490534F05128EC30AD2EA5B8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------490534F05128EC30AD2EA5B8 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Delivered-To: shbergeson@mail-slkc.uswest.net Received: (qmail 93294 invoked by uid 0); 18 Feb 2000 01:13:44 -0000 Received: from mail9.uswest.net (204.147.80.27) by slkcpop2.slkc.uswest.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2000 01:13:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 17621 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2000 01:13:38 -0000 Received: from ck.egroups.com (207.138.41.173) by mail9.uswest.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2000 01:13:38 -0000 Received: from [10.1.2.125] by ck.egroups.com with NNFMP; 18 Feb 2000 01:03:56 -0000 Received: (listserv $); by f7; 18 Feb 2000 01:03:55 -0000 Delivered-To: listsaver-egroups-gopconservatives@egroups.com Received: (qmail 15614 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2000 00:07:47 -0000 Received: from email.burgoyne.com (HELO smtp.burgoyne.com) (209.197.0.17) by mx3.egroups.com with SMTP; 18 Feb 2000 00:07:47 -0000 Received: from burgoyne.com (pmk6.burgoyne.com [209.197.6.110]) by smtp.burgoyne.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA01313 for ; Thu, 17 Feb 2000 17:07:44 -0700 Message-ID: <38AD364F.3D9BCF3E@burgoyne.com> X-eGroups-Return: gopconservatives-return-1008-shbergeson=uswest.net@returns.egroups.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en Mailing-List: contact gopconservatives-owner@egroups.com X-Mailing-List: gopconservatives@egroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Help: , List-Unsubscribe: List-Archive: Reply-To: gopconservatives@egroups.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Bad news again. HB372 Residency Requirement for Concealed Firearm Permit (G. Cox) Some how the committee ressssurrected this bill from the dead. It is on for; 4:00 PM Room 223 Friday Feb 18, 2000 House Judiciary Standing Sommittee They are going to get the votes from someone. Call them at their homes and politely encourage them to vote this bill to the grave. jbj To Post a message, send it to: gopconservatives@eGroups.com To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: gopconservatives-unsubscribe@eGroups.com Promote Health & Earn Extra Income! Join the Rainbow Light Affiliate Program. Sell leading brands of premium nutritionals. Earn 15% commission + 33% on commissions of those you refer to us. http://click.egroups.com/1/1634/2/_/97595/_/950835835/ eGroups.com Home: http://www.egroups.com/group/gopconservatives/ http://www.egroups.com - Simplifying group communications --------------490534F05128EC30AD2EA5B8-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: Fwd: *Great* RKBA point Date: 18 Feb 2000 12:58:58 -0700 ----- from another list---I wish that *I* had engineered this epiphany! ---David the Troglodyte A Leftist in my office building was discussing social policy, including so-called "assault weapons" (content) and gun control. They invited me to comment, knowing full well my stance on the subject. I pursued the "rights" angle, and was getting nowhere until I said the following: "I will accept the same restrictions on gun ownership that you accept on abortion." There was a pause, and then "Uh, I get it now." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Federal Forfeiture Reform Date: 19 Feb 2000 07:42:55 -0700 ----- At the meeting with Orrin Hatch on Wednesday evening, he indicated his support of forfeiture reform, and his desire that his constituents work with him on their concerns. To that end, I have reviewed S. 1931, Hatch's forfeiture bill. According to Hatch, it will be heard by the Senate Judiciary Committee (SJC) next week. As S. 1931 now stands, it is an extremely feeble attempt at addressing a very grave problem. However, it can and must be improved. I have reviewed the legislation, and have provided Hatch's SJC Chief of Staff Manus Cooney with the amendments necessary to restore justice. I would encourage you all to immediately contact Senator Hatch, and request that he respond to all of the requested amendments. In addition, contact Manus at 202-224-5225, or fax 202-228-1115. Senator Hatch is going to have an excellent opportunity to demonstrate his willingness to accept citizen input. I am not particularly optimistic, but am willing to be surprised. Arnold 801-621-3122 Restore Justice - Amendments to S. 1931 Prepared by: Arnold J. Gaunt February 18, 2000 1. Place burden of proof on government by clear and convincing evidence. S. 1931 requires the government to show, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the property is subject to forfeiture (Sec. 2(c)). The preponderance evidentiary standard inherently places the burden of proof on the claimant (i.e. innocent owner), because he must tip the scales of justice in his favor by showing that the property is not subject to forfeiture. With the clear and convincing evidentiary standard, the government must prove its case to an absolute standard, rather than to a relative one. 2. Prohibit "facilitation" forfeitures, unless owner is criminally convicted. 21 USC 881a enumerates property that is subject to forfeiture. If the property is "used or intended for use" [by any person, who is not required to be the owner] in furtherance of illegal activity, it may be confiscated by the government. Please notice that there is no requirement whatsoever for complicity by the owner of the property for his property to be taken. This injustice can be corrected by doing two things: 1) Require that the owner be convicted of a related criminal act before any property forfeiture can be enabled, and 2) modify the statutory verbiage to "used and intended by the owner for use". 3. End conflicts of interest/consolidation of power. S. 1931 does nothing to end the unconscionable abuse created by allowing the police to profit from the property they seize. This feature of present law allows the Attorney General to assume the legislative power to raise and allocate revenue. Since the drug trade causes harm to innocent persons, all forfeiture proceeds should be allocated to the victims of crime. 4. Restore the prohibition against the circumvention of state laws. 21 USC 881 was amended in 1989 to encourage circumvention of state laws by the federal government. The Amendments section following this code reads as follows: 1989 - Subsec. (e)(3)(B). Pub. L. 101-189 amended subpar. (B) generally. Prior to amendment, subpar. (B) read as follows: "is not so transferred to circumvent any requirement of State law that prohibits forfeiture or limits use or disposition of property forfeited to State or local agencies." This language must be restored to end the abuse created by "federal adoption" of forfeiture cases. 5. End extra-judicial forfeitures. The right to own property is of inestimable value. In accordance with this value, no forfeiture should be permissible except through a court of law. Amend Sec. 7(a) to require judicial forfeitures regardless of property type. For further information, please contact Arnold Gaunt, Utah coordinator for Forfeiture Endangers American Rights (FEAR). E-mail: ajgaunt@xmission.com, phone 801-621-3122. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERT 2-19: Committee reports, REMINDER!, HELP! Date: 19 Feb 2000 21:26:15 -0700 Committee reports CALL YOUR SENATOR! Report on Senate Judiciary Committee, 2-18 The Senate Judiciary Committee PASSED Sen. President Lane Beattie's SB 162S1 and SB 162S1 favorably yesterday. SB 161S1 (Hall passes for gun owners) requires that concealed carry permittees report to the principal's office to notify them that they are "a threat to civilized society and our children." It also allows school officials to harass or fire school employees who choose to carry firearms. SB 162S1 (Permission slips to worship) requires concealed carry permittees to notify church authorities that they are "a threat to the congregation" and ask permission to attend church. Child molesters, rapists and violent felons are exempted from the notification requirement. Sen. Valentine did amend the bills to make a violation an infraction instead of a misdemeanor. Everyone who attended the meeting commented on how completely unfair the committee hearings were. Utah's exemplar of Soviet-style democracy, Committee Chair Sen. Terry Spencer, insisted that both bills be discussed "as one". He restricted remarks to "notification", banning all speech relating to the Second Amendment, other states, other countries, crime data, or anything that he didn't want to hear. He claims that neither bill has anything to do with the Constitution or the Second Amendment - although both infringe on the right to carry without government harassment. Anyone who violated his abusive rules was gaveled into silence. Despite Spencer's best efforts, not a single person spoke in favor of the bills. Sen. Spencer clearly does not respect either the First or the Second Amendment. And he obviously wants to discourage and stifle public input in the legislative process. Testifying against these bills were: Brent Odenwalder Scott Steffensen Scott Engen, GOUtah! Elwood Powell, USSC Ruth Andrus Bill Nash, Utahns Against Gun Violence (who thinks the bill doesn't go far enough!) (And another person who's name wasn't relayed to me.) THANK YOU! And thanks to all of you who attended and weren't allowed to speak too! Senators Hellewell, Hillyard, Valentine and Spencer voted FOR this attack on our rights although they also said they'd vote against it on the floor. They say they think it needs "more public discussion". (Has any issue in recent memory been MORE discussed?) Translation: We want to tell anti-gun folks we voted FOR the bills and tell pro-gun folks we voted AGAINST the bill. We want to give the gun-grabbers and the media more opportunities to attack law abiding gun owners. We want Gov. Leavitt and Sen. President Lane Beattie to "like us". We think issues of rights should be decided by "public opinion polls". We don't want to be held accountable for what we do. And "If we don't vote against your rights, Democrats might get elected!" (shudder) The question is quite simple: Do Utahns have the right to defend their lives? UTGuns wants to know if these gentlemen would also vote FOR a bill to legalize late-term abortions on demand "because it needs more public discussion"? (We think they wouldn't! They'd oppose the murder of the defenseless.) The issue in both cases is the right to life. Why do they want to encourage the murder of defenseless adults? And why should we care if Democrats get elected? The Dems voted AGAINST this bill. What's the difference between a Republican who steals your rights and a Democrat who steals your rights? Nothing - except the Democrats don't lie about it. Let them know what you think! Chair - Sen. Terry Spencer 801-543-4450 tspencer@le.state.ut.us Sen. Parley Hellewell (R-Utah) (801)226-3034 parley@itsnet.com Sen. Lyle Hillyard (R-Cache, Rich, Summit) (435)753-0043 lhillyar@le.state.ut.us Sen. John Valentine (R-Utah) (801)224-1693 jvalenti@le.state.ut.us Report on the Senate Transportation and Public Safety Committee 2-18 Things were not much better over at the Senate Transportation and Public Safety committee, where SB 32S1 (Marksmanship tests for concealed carry) was held. Sponsor Sen. Ron Allen substituted his bill to make it worse, and then amended it to make the marksmanship test a little easier. The bill would require an ANNUAL marksmanship test with EACH gun that you carry. (How this would be accomplished when renewals are every 5 years was not mentioned. And of course you'd have to give BCI a list of each gun that you carry and let them know if you get a new one! No one seems to know who would administer these tests or where they might be conducted. Perhaps that's the idea. If it's impossible to get or renew a permit, maybe gun owners will just go away.) Interestingly no one has even tried to estimate what this will cost permittees - or what it will cost BCI to keep such extensive records. My own estimate is that it would cost permittees $50 to $100 a year for EACH gun to keep a permit, if you include paying for range time, ammunition, instructors to sign certification permits, travel expenses, and the inevitable increase in fees to BCI to hire new employees and track records. The current fee is $10 every five years. Sen. Julander offered the opinion that since she had to spend four years in school and pass a licensing exam to get her nurse's license, concealed carry permittees should have to do the same. Sen. Julander - which article of either the Utah or the US Constitutions guarantees that your right to be a nurse shall not be infringed? Is there a "right" to be a nurse? Sen. Hale was reduced to tears at the idea that an unlicensed person might dare to try to save the lives of children. Would it be better to just let them be murdered like the kids at Columbine? Interestingly, Sen. Allen prefaced his remarks by saying, on the record, that he had spoken to Brian Judy, NRA-ILA representative for Utah, and that the NRA has no objection to this bill! I spoke with Brian earlier today. He says the NRA does NOT support this bill, and will not support any requirement for live fire tests for concealed carry permits. In fact, he's never spoken to Sen. Ron Allen at all - about this bill or anything else! Testifying in opposition to this bill were: Leonard Wojcik, USSC Winton Clark Aposhian, GOUtah! and US-DIN! Billie Telford Randy Browning Sarah Thompson, UTGuns (and probably a few I forgot!) THANKS! And thanks also to Sen. Mike Waddoups for allowing members of the public to comment without undue harassment! The bill was "held" in committee and will be voted on "sometime". It's currently scheduled for 4 PM Monday, Rm. 403. PLEASE contact members of the committee and ask them to OPPOSE SB 32. NO amendments, no compromises! Sen. Michael Waddoups, Chair 801-967-0225, mwaddoup@le.state.ut.us President Lane Beattie 801-292-7406, lbeattie@le.state.ut.us Sen. R. Mont Evans 801-254-2655, mevans@le.state.ut.us Sen. Karen Hale 801-485-6642, khale@le.state.ut.us Sen. Paula F. Julander 801-363-0868 prjuland@msn.com Sen. Peter C. Knudson 435-723-2035 pknudson@le.state.ut.us Sen. Eddie "Ed" P. Mayne 801-968-7756 emayne@le.state.ut.us Sen. David H. Steele 801-825-3033 dsteele@le.state.ut.us More bill hearings! HB 245, Gun Hysteria in Public Schools (Wright) will also be heard by the Senate Transportation Committe, Monday, 4 PM, Room 403. (See list of Senators above.) Please ask committee members to OPPOSE this bill! SB 37, Child Interrogation School Surveys (Montgomery) will be heard in the House Health and Human Services committee Monday, 4 PM, Room 225. (See previous alerts for details.) PLEASE CALL YOUR SENATOR! All of these bad gun bills are on their way to the Senate, and many more will be introduced as the session enters its final 9 days. It is absolutely essential that you call YOUR senator and Senate President Lane Beattie, and let them know that you expect them to OPPOSE ALL GUN CONTROL BILLS! See http://www.senate.le.state.ut.us/roster99.htm for contact info. Sen. Lane Beattie 319 State Capitol SLC, UT 84114-0111 801-292-7406 home 801-538-1400 Capitol 801-538-1414 fax All Senators can be reached at:801-538-1035 Republican fax 801-538-1414 Democrat fax 801-538-1449 IF YOU DON'T ACT, YOU WON'T HAVE ANY RIGHTS!!! Thanks! Sarah Leg-alerts is written and distributed by Sarah Thompson, M.D. All information contained in these alerts is the responsibility of the author, unless otherwise attributed. Leg-alerts can also be found at UTGuns, http://www.UTguns.freeservers.com . Please check out the new site! This is a one-way list. Please do NOT try to post to the list. It won't work, and repeat violations will result in your removal from the list. Comments may be sent to me at righter@therighter.com. Thanks! Permission is granted for distribution of these alerts so long as no changes are made and this message is left intact. To subscribe/unsubscribe from leg-alerts, send a message to: majordomo@aros.net In the body put: subscribe (or unsubscribe) leg-alerts - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Nationwide Concealed Carry Date: 20 Feb 2000 05:30:18 -0700 ----- Disposition-Notification-To: "Arnold J. Gaunt" In response to questioning from an attendee at the meeting on Wednesday, Orrin Hatch stated that he opposed nationwide concealed carry legislation because it would infringe upon the laws and constitutions of some states. Some have accepted this explanation. I find his response to be misleading. Allow me to explain why. Second Amendment Restricts the States In certain spheres (enumerated powers and prohibitions) the U.S. Constitution prevails over the laws of any state (see Article VI, second paragraph for the supremacy clause, and the 10th Amendment). Since no state has been forced to join the United States (some have been forced to remain), when each joined the U.S. it voluntarily agreed to submit to the higher law of the Constitution. The Second Amendment is part of the Constitution, and prohibits infringement of the right to keep and bear (i.e. carry openly or concealed) arms by the federal government. I believe it was the intent of the framers that the Second Amendment apply also to every state. My reasoning is based on the wording of the First Amendment, which reads in part "Congress shall make no law ...". Notice the prohibition in the First Amendment is limited to the federal government, not the states. The reason the prohibition is limited is because some of the states at that time were joined with religious denominations, and desired to maintain direct public support of their favorite church. Therefore the states were/are excluded from the prohibition. The Second Amendment, however, does not distinguish between Congress and the states. Its prohibition is applicable to both. From a practical standpoint, a well regulated (proficient and experienced) militia (military force comprised of citizens capable of bearing arms) cannot exist if the states prohibit the keeping (ownership) and bearing (carrying openly or concealed within a state and across state lines) of arms (instruments of force like swords, knives, and firearms). For this reason, Congress should not pay heed to any purported enactment of a state that subverts the Second Amendment. Federal override of illegal restrictions enacted by some states regarding the carrying of firearms is in keeping with the spirit and intent of the Constitution (supremacy clause and the Second Amendment). It protects the right to life, and imposes a burden on no one. I believe Orrin Hatch is wrong to imply otherwise. Government Training Justifies Federal Preemption? Orrin is not a purist when it comes to his position on the federal government overriding the states. He is comfortable in allowing retired police to carry across state lines, as though the life of a police officer was somehow worth more than some ordinary citizen. Orrin's position is absurd: if you are just some pitiful and irrelevant taxpayer, override of state statutes is not acceptable, but if you are/were part of the government brotherhood, it is entirely all right. But then he says that the higher level of training is what matters. Say what, where is that in the Constitution? Preemption OK if Individual Rights are Attacked Orrin has no problem with federal enactments, such as the federal possession ban on "semiautomatic assault weapons", that preempt state laws and Constitutions which affirm the right to keep and bear arms. In fact, he laments on his web site that there have been so few prosecutions by Janet Reno for mere firearms possession. Most states have no restrictions on semiautomatics or even machine guns. So what right does the federal government have then to ban what an individual state finds to be lawful and outside the range of government power? Why is this of no concern to Orrin? Conclusion Orrin misapplies the acceptable principle of states' rights to conceal his opposition to viable self defense for citizens as they cross state lines. Unless, of course, your life is deserving of protection because of prior employment with the Government. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Project Exile Concerns Date: 20 Feb 2000 06:18:53 -0700 ----- The following message comes from my long-time associate Russ Howard. In it he provides an alternative perspective on the NRA's much promoted "Project Exile". I believe his points regarding the likely abuse of innocent gun owners are well-founded. In fact, as I noted in a previous posting, already Exile supporter Senator Hatch laments the fact that so few people have been prosecuted by Janet Reno for mere possession of "semiautomatic assault weapons" (i.e. traditional firearms useful for defense of self and family). Let us not fall into a trap. Arnold ----- To those getting this for the 3rd time; My condolences. My computer seems to have something against letting me say "Editor, WorldNetDaily" -- at least in the saved version. Some of you seem to be getting what I wrote, then Editor, WorldNetDaily, From David M. Bresnahan's Feb. 8, 2000 WorldNetDaily article, Congressman gives away free guns: "What's it going to solve?" asked NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre regarding the Clinton-Gore proposal to license gun owners. "The criminals could care less. They're not going to stand in line; they won't comply with it," he said. The NRA has warned that Clinton's proposal to track every gun and bullet used in a crime means that all guns will be registered. So true. But then why, should these new laws pass, does LaPierre want to enforce them? Through "Project Exile," LaPierre wants to "enforce existing gun laws" with "zero tolerance" and a 5-year stay in the Federal Gulags that he's helping build -- despite the unconstitutionality of most existing gun laws and our bitter struggles against their enactment. Predictably, Clinton & Co. are buying in: "Enforce existing gun laws, huh? Hey, that sounds pretty good. How about 500 more ATF agents?" (Which, of course, LaPierre had to swallow, though as usual he didn't seem to mind). Anti-gun enthusiasm for Project Gun Gulag should be no surprise, considering that LaPierre partnered with the likes of anti-gun Philadelphia Mayor Ed Rendell to grease this sucker deal. And yet, this from the "NRA Winning Team" web site: Readers of the FAX Alert may be surprised to read about the latest politician taking credit for "Project Exile." A Buffalo News article (8/10/99) quoted none other than Sen. Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.), as saying, "Before Project Exile, committing a crime with an illegal gun could mean only a slap on the wrist. But now those wrists are slapped with handcuffs." (CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE? NRA­ILA FAX ALERT, Vol. 6, No. 32, 8/20/99) Actually, only a cretin should be surprised by any of this, including NRA's "surprise" that the enemy is wholeheartedly jumping on their bandwagon. Can anyone truly believe that Schumer doesn't see this as a vehicle to turn decent gun owners into political prisoners, one by one? Is NRA's "Winning" Team really that dense, or, like the corrupt police official in Casablanca, are they "shocked, shocked, to discover that there is gambling in this institution" (as they collect their winnings)? I've little doubt that when pressed, LaPierre will say something like, "I meant real criminals; you know, violent felons." But while LaPierre's "Winning Team" drones the "enforcement" chant, they rarely bother limiting the focus of Project Exile propaganda to previously-convicted criminals; even more rarely to felons or violent criminals. Not that these finer distinctions would help anyway. "Convicted Criminals," or "Convicted Felons" will include victimless gun criminals -- decent folks who get busted for CCW or refusing to turn in "illegal" guns, then get busted again after doing their time. And as gun laws become increasingly complex and numerous, decent Americans will become victims of Project Gulag due to unknowing, unintentional violations. Moreover, since anti-gunners are designing and implementing Project Exile, even the phrase "Violent Criminals" will include decent, victimless offenders. For example, say the police come to confiscate your "assault weapon," which respectable sport shooter Charlton Heston says you have no legitimate reason to own. Maybe you're not enthusiastic enough about giving it up. Maybe you even mouth off something about your "rights." Let's assume you're luckier than Don Scott, the Weavers, and the little kiddies at Waco, so the police merely beat you and claim you attacked them. Besides being convicted of a gun "crime," you're also convicted of a "violent crime" -- resisting arrest, assaulting an officer, or some such charge. Later, after doing time, you're arrested & convicted for exercising your "inalienable human right" to carry for self-defense, and you do 5 years in the Gun Gulag on Strike 2. Later still, "free" again, you get your 3rd strike for incorrigibly exercising your "RKBA." Thanks again to LaPierre's "Winning" Team -- big supporters of 3 Victimless Crimes & You're Out, massive prison-building programs, and other cornerstones of the Police State and the Prison Industrial Complex -- you go to the Gun Gulag for life. Here. In America. As a political prisoner. Even though you never hurt a soul. It doesn't matter what LaPierre's "Winning" Team really meant by "enforce existing gun laws." The mindless, simpleton chant is what's catching on. Perhaps NRA's "Winning" Team merely was not careful what it wished for or how it wished for it. But they pried open Pandora's Box, and the focus of what comes out will not be limited to "real" criminals. Project Exile will be used against all citizens who violate gun laws, and it will work the way the anti-gunners want it to. So when they pass gun owner registration (as if we don't largely have it already thanks to Heston's Gun Control Act of 1968), LaPierre will help enforce it. Isn't it wonderful? We fight new laws today, help the police state enforce them tomorrow. And if LaPierre is really worried about registration, why is he pushing InstaCheck rather than an alternative program that would enable dealers to check backgrounds without the government knowing who's buying guns? Of course, the government is not supposed to keep background check records. That would be wrong! But it was wrong when the government murdered Don Scott, then shot little Sammy Weaver in the back and sent a sniper to kill his infant-carrying mother, then machine-gunned, crushed, gassed, and incinerated scores of men, women and children at a religious retreat, then whitewashed and covered it up, cheered on by bloodthirsty, newsmedia ratings-whores. The perpetrators were never punished. Instead, they received extensive public approbation, and they are in charge of InstaCheck. Does LaPierre believe that murderers would think twice about keeping records of gun buyers? What are they afraid of, the law? Far as they're concerned, they are the law. "Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?", asked Juvenal, some two millennia past. "But who shall guard the guards?" Isn't that why the Framers wanted the People to be the guards? To be primarily responsible for our own defense and the defense of our families and communities, and not to delegate these basic rights and responsibilities? Over the generations since our right to self-defense was paid for in blood, we foolishly ignored Franklin and Washington, trading liberty for an illusion of safety; hiring a dangerous servant and getting a fearful master. To score quickly forgotten public relations points, or to appease our oppressors, should we help expand the Police State and the Prison Industrial Complex, leaders of which will surely come to view the unorganized militia as a political threat, citizen self-defense as an economic threat, and victimless criminals as resources? Shouldn't we be trying to reverse this secular mistake, the incremental quitclaiming of our ultimate power? Shouldn't we delegate to or share with government only those functions which enhance our ability to defend ourselves, withholding those which supplant it? Shouldn't we aim to become the guards again? Russ Howard 1995-97, NRA Director (resigned) 1992-95, Executive Director, Citizens Against Corruption 1993-94, Executive Director, Roberti Recall - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Free Weaponry! Date: 20 Feb 2000 06:36:36 -0700 ----- TUESDAY FEBRUARY 8, 2000 Congressman gives away free guns... Campaign to draw attention to Second Amendment website. By David M. Bresnahan © 2000 WorldNetDaily.com SALT LAKE CITY, Utah -- While Republican lawmakers flesh out their positions on President Clinton's aggressive new gun control proposals, one congressman is dealing with the issue by giving away free guns. Rep. Chris Cannon, R-Utah, spent part of this past weekend giving away two handguns in a free drawing at the "Crossroads of the West" gun show in Salt Lake City, Utah. It was his way of letting people know about his new website, eConservativeCoalition.com, which, Cannon says, "is dedicated to supporting your gun rights." Actively calling out to the 15,000 attendees at the gun show as they passed by his booth, Cannon asked, "Would you like to enter our free drawing? We're giving away a couple of guns. Win a PPK." As passersby filled out the entry form, Cannon gave them a copy of the Second Amendment on a business card, along with his website's address. According to Cannon's website, the Second Amendment was added to the Constitution to provide important protections for every citizen. These include protection from foreign and domestic threats, as well as to provide for the right to self-protection, protection of family, and to protect private property. Clinton announced plans for sweeping new gun regulations in his State of the Union address. Plans include requiring a photo ID license for all handgun owners. He also announced plans to have the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms begin a major investigation of gun dealers, and a federal grant for "smart gun" technology. The problem, said Cannon, is that Clinton is going after guns, not criminals. "You know what he's doing? He really got stung by the NRA and their campaign to crack down on illegal gun owners. He won't do that. He won't go after the guys who are doing the crimes," said Cannon in an interview with WorldNetDaily. Cannon's website, designed both to educate and rally support on the Second Amendment, says that "by forming a wide variety of strategic relationships, we work to provide both a local and national infrastructure through which groups and gun advocates, and those who are interested in maintaining their personal freedom, can better communicate and coordinate their efforts." The president's new plan to investigate gun dealers is the "most comprehensive overview ever of the firearms industry." He said a recent study points to 1.2 percent of all gun dealers being responsible for 57 percent of all gun crime traces by the BATF. The National Rifle Association, however, was quick to point out that the study was completed last year by Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., with flawed data. Indeed, both the BATF and the Congressional Research Service stated at the time of Schumer's study, which relied on BATF gun-tracing data, that the statistics were not used correctly. "The [B]ATF tracing system is an operational system designed to help law enforcement agencies identify the ownership path of individual firearms. It was not designed to collect statistics....[B]ATF does not always know if a firearm being traced has been used in a crime... [A trace can occur] for any reason. No crime need be involved," explained the Congressional Research Service in a report. In short, the statistics used by Clinton cannot be used to conclude that gun dealers have supplied guns to criminals, according to the NRA. "I guess that begs the question that if authorities suspect some gun dealers of wrongdoing, why haven't they already been investigated?" asked NRA lobbyist James Baker. He explained that the federal government licenses gun dealers and gives the BATF authority to investigate and prosecute, any time existing federal gun laws have been broken. "Now, the administration has a plan to drive gun dealers out of business through arbitrary regulation. The administration has a plan to drive gun makers out of business with taxpayer-funded junk lawsuits. The administration has a plan to license law-abiding gun owners. The only group the administration doesn't have a plan for dealing with is armed criminals," said Baker. Since Clinton took office in 1992, said Baker, the number of federally licensed gun dealers has been reduced by almost two thirds. The most recent announcement by Clinton to have the BATF crack down on gun dealers is just another attempt to reduce the number of dealers still further, he said. "The White House is apparently targeting gun dealers who sell, in the administration's opinion, too many guns. They are also going after dealers who don't sell enough guns. I think it would end a lot of confusion if the White House just told federally licensed dealers how many guns they should be selling," said Baker. 'This is all beside the fact that the administration's entire initiative perpetuates the deceptive misuse of BATF trace data contrary to the repeated cautioning of both BATF and the Congressional Research Service.' Cannon agrees. "The president wants to go after guns, not criminals. That's his emphasis." His http://eConservativeCoalition.com website adds: "The wisdom of our Founding Fathers is evident every day by the peace we enjoy as a community and by the fact that no invading army has ever made a significant insurgence on United States soil." It also warns that opposing forces are trying to destroy the Second Amendment "under the pretense of safety." The site claims support from the NRA, Gun Owners of America, the Second Amendment Foundation, Women Against Gun Control and other organizations. Janalee Tobias, president of Women Against Gun Control, also at the Salt Lake City gun show, criticized the Clinton proposals. "He's throwing marshmallows at the problem. If he wants to throw hardballs he should concentrate on what's causing the crime," said Tobias. Echoing the popular bumper sticker, she intoned, "Guns don't kill people. We all know it's the person pulling the trigger. I just took another gun class and found out they did a study where they dropped a gun 300 feet. It doesn't go off. You have to pull the trigger." What government needs to concentrate on, said Tobias, is "the people who pull the trigger." Vice President Al Gore announced his support for licensing gun owners during a campaign stop in Boston recently. He said he would mandate full, gun-owner licensing for all firearms purchases and ownership. "What's it going to solve?" asked NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre regarding the Clinton-Gore proposal to license gun owners. "The criminals could care less. They're not going to stand in line; they won't comply with it," he said. The NRA has warned that Clinton's proposal to track every gun and bullet used in a crime means that all guns will be registered. In addition to licensing and registration, the president also reiterated his call for $10 million to be set aside as grant money for firearm manufacturers to develop "smart guns" -- research that is already being done by a number of manufacturers, and has been for several years. The NRA says Clinton is using this grant money and the threat of lawsuits to control gun manufacturers. "Clinton's proposal is not only an unnecessary waste of federal money, but even one of the most rabid anti-gun organizations, the Violence Policy Center, has stated opposition to such a proposal, noting this technology '...cannot decrease gun homicides or suicides....' Of course," says an NRA statement, "while Clinton offers industry this proposed taxpayer-subsidized research, he continues to hold over their heads the very real threat of taxpayer-subsidized lawsuits." David M. Bresnahan is an investigative journalist for WorldNetDaily.com, Inc. This page was last built 2/7/00; 11:00:31 PM Direct corrections and technical inquiries to webmaster@worldnetdaily.com Please direct news submissions to news@worldnetdaily.com _______________________________________________ Liberty-and-Justice mailing list Liberty-and-Justice@mailbox.by.net http://mailbox.by.net/mailman/listinfo/liberty-and-justice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Re: NRA lost direction Date: 20 Feb 2000 15:18:24 -0700 ----- XXXX, Despite Senator Hatch's disclaimers to the contrary, the record demonstrates that he sponsored or supported anti-gun-owner amendments to S. 254. They include: Self Defense Lock Up Hatch/Kohl Amendment No. 352 (Vote No. 122, CR S5382-S5383) http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d106:SP00352: This amendment mandates that trigger locks (or gun safes) be included with every handgun sold. This may seem like a good idea, until it is more fully considered. Increases the cost of every handgun, without provable benefit. Will not affect irresponsible persons, who will not use or will discard the trigger locks. Will not stop juvenile killers, who can easily obtain access to the gun with a key, or if thwarted by a lock, by purchasing a firearm on the black market. Locks are dangerous to use on loaded firearms. Locks do not make an unloaded firearm any more safe. Flies in the face of greatly reduced firearms accidents over the last twenty years. This improvement has occurred without "assistance" from the Government, now being sponsored by Senator Hatch. Concedes the false argument of our enemies that gun owners are irresponsible and should have federal mandates placed on them. Do you store your firearms irresponsibly and need the government to force you to buy a trigger lock? Opens the door to European style gun control, where firearms must be locked up at all times unless being used at the range or while hunting. Having a loaded firearm available for self defense is against the law there. Once every gun owner has a trigger lock, then a future Congress can mandate that all guns must be locked inside the home. Shifts blame from burglars, robbers, and killers to law abiding gun owners. Creates liability for those who keep unlocked guns available for self defense in their homes. This last point deserves additional discussion. Senator Hatch claims that the reason he supports this legislation is to reduce liability for persons whose guns are stolen. In fact, it does this only for handguns that have a trigger lock on them or were locked in a safe. So, if you are in your home and are knocked unconscious by an intruder who then steals and commits a crime with your unlocked handgun, expect to have insult added to injury when you face a civil liability suit for being "irresponsible". Another insidious aspect of the Hatch/Kohl plan pertains to homeowners' insurance. To avoid excessive liability exposure, it may be necessary for insurance companies to require all firearms to be locked as a prerequisite to issuance of a policy. The homeowner then faces a choice between liability insurance and viable protection against home invaders. All this because Senator Hatch and his [il]liberal associates would rather blame you than hold criminals accountable for their actions. Attack the American Gun Culture and Imprison Responsible Parents Aschcroft Amendment No. 342 (Vote No. 115, CR S5307) http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d106:SP00342: This amendment is perhaps the most insidious. It binds parents up in senseless paper work and regulations if they wish to train their children in the safe and responsible use of semiautomatic firearms and ammunition magazines greater than 10 rounds. For example, suppose you were to allow your 17 year old son to go shooting with a trusted brother or your father. If on this venture your son fired a Ruger P89 with a 15 round magazine without written permission slip from you, see you LATER. You have just committed a FEDERAL CRIME, created by Orrin Hatch. Obviously the Ashcroft Amendment will have no affect on real criminals, but it does make it more difficult for the law abiding to acquaint their children with the tools of liberty, like assault rifles, handguns, higher capacity magazines, etc. Which is exactly what Hatch and his fellow social engineers want. Knowing that they will NEVER extirpate the gun culture (i.e. self reliance and freedom) from this generation, they try to prohibit us from passing it along to the next. Register Gun Owners in FBI Database Hatch Amendment No. 344 (Vote No. 118, CR S5309) http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r106:2:./temp/~r106IhzsJ0:: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r106:2:./temp/~r106IhzsJ0:e42587: The Hatch Amendment, later superseded by the Lautenberg Amendment, required that all private party firearms transactions at gun shows be registered in the FBI database associated with the misnamed National Instant Check System (NICS). This is a classic example of the slippery slope in action. Initially, the instant registration system was required only for transactions conducted by firearms dealers. With the Hatch amendment, it is extended to private party transactions at gun shows. The final step is to mandate gun owner registration for all firearms transactions. Can this happen? Yes, it already has in the state of California. At the meeting on Wednesday, Hatch indicated that he did not believe that any gun owners were being registered in FBI's computers, but he would check with Louis Freeh to be sure. His diversionary tactic was surprisingly contradicted by Wayne LaPierre in the very same meeting, who indicated the NRA had filed a lawsuit to stop the FBI from their registration program. Conclusion The record demonstrates that Senator Hatch has sponsored or supported anti-gun-owner amendments to S. 254, and approved of other egregious amendments (such as the Lautenberg gun show ban) by voting for them once they were incorporated and the final vote on S. 254 was taken. True Second Amendment Senators, such as Bob Smith (N.H.) and Mike Enzi (WY), consistently voted against the adverse amendments and final passage of this subversive legislation. XXXX, I hope that you feel as though Senator Hatch has betrayed and exploited your confidence in him. I don't think you want to be defending a wayward politician that has contempt for our rights and opposes gun control by voting for it. Arnold XXXX wrote: <> I welcome the opportunity to clarify. I was expressing the opinion that I felt it was "dishonest" of a person or organization to infer that Senator Hatch supported the gun-control amendments to his Juvenile Justice Bill, when we have personally heard his disclaimers to the contrary. Perhaps I should have used the word "illogical". Let's leave it at that and move on. XXXX - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Defining Anti-Gun People Date: 21 Feb 2000 17:59:25 -0700 ----- Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 1:28 AM KEEP AND BEAR ARMS .ORG REPORT ====================================== Copyright © 2000 by KeepAndBearArms.org Republish anywhere with the following statement: "Reprinted from the KeepAndBearArms.org Report available at http://www.KeepAndBearArms.org" ====================================== Defining Anti-Gun People Identifying Their Outcomes in Plain English By Angel Shamaya Inspired by H.S. "Gunnie" Reagan - The Shooting Shaman http://www.keepandbeararms.org/defining_anti_gun_people.htm "The best defense is a good offense." The "pro-gun/anti-gun" verbiage is no longer effective. The time has come to draw new lines in the sand--to open new channels for accurate and results-oriented communication. The folks who wish to ban guns have begun to sway public opinion to formulate negative thoughts when they hear the word "gun." The word "gun" has now been linked to such words as killer, death, killing, murder, murdering, criminal, etc. When "pro" is added to the word "gun," freedom-lovers are now often associated as being "pro-killer", "pro-death", etc. With the media heartily biased against guns, the campaign against us through such programming has been effective. Let us work diligently and consistently to turn the tides by using the same simple tool-to our advantage. The time has come to utilize the amazing gift brought to us through the intelligent, accurate, and conscious use of Language. Jon Haupt blessed us with a fantastic expose on how languaging (metaphor) strategies are being used to defeat our gun rights. The ball he put in play is begging to be run for repeated touchdowns. (If you missed Jon's brilliant work, please go read it. It's called The Amazing Secret Weapon of the Gun Control Movement. http://www.keepandbeararms.org/amazing_secret_weapon.htm) In beginning to address the Reality of what being "pro" gun or "anti" gun really means, we must dig deep into the eventual results each position will produce if/when carried to its logical conclusion. We'll look at the results side-by-side from a few different vantage points. I'll be as brief as possible while making my points. I will continue to refer to the two sides of the gun issue as "pro" and "anti" to make this easy. When I'm done, we'll have new terms for each side of the gun issue for future communications in the field (and reminders of terms that have been batted around to now be effectively employed.) Let's start with the Good Guys first... The pro-gun position, carried forth into the repealing of illegal, unconstitutional gun laws and a return to a healthy societal balance, will conclude with a polite and civilized society. Amidst a national society of armed, law-abiding people who readily legally protect themselves, crime will plummet. The media will trickle and then pour out news of people stopping crime in its tracks. The more intelligent criminals will come to understand that "he who lives by the sword dies by the sword." The result will be freedom on many levels. Pro-gun people, therefore, can honestly be labeled as: Pro Freedom, Pro Liberty, Pro Self Defense, Pro Life, Pro People, Pro Active, Pro Peace, Anti Criminal, Anti Tyranny, Anti Rapist, Anti Murder, Anti Criminal, and a few other choice pro's and anti's you can dream up as you toy with this one and apply it in your letters and conversations. (Send me the good ones and we'll keep a running list on our site.) "Gun Informed" and "Gun Educated" are both quite accurate, as well. On to the anti-gun sheeple... The anti-gun position, carried to its final end, would leave the general population of law-abiding people without guns. Criminals will still get their guns. (When guns are outlawed, only the bad guys will have guns. Look at New York City and Washington, D.C. for good examples of poor legislation gone deeply awry.) Therefore, law-abiding people without guns means: more victims, easier prey, successful criminals, greater fear in the streets, more rapes, more murders, and on and on. In the anti-gun grand finale, which will NOT happen, the criminals would live by a creed much more like "he who lives by the sword gets rich, fat, and happy and has easy pickins on any street in America." Dissecting these facts and applying them to more descriptive and accurate labeling of our anti gun people led astray, let us now call an apple an apple. "Anti-gun" people work to develop easier prey and simpler, more effective victimization. They can therefore honestly be labeled: Victim Creators, Pro Victim, Pro Crime, Pro Rape, Pro Murder, Pro Fear, Anti Liberty, Anti Freedom, Anti Self Defense, Pro Chaos, Pro Violence, Violence Supporters, Criminal Enablers, and Supporters of Violent People (which of course translates to Anti Good Guys, and thus Anti People.) Take a minute and let your mind run wild with the endless ways to paint the truth about the folks we've been calling "anti-gun." They were getting off lightly with that label. See? Rosie O'Donnell surely won't like the press she gets when letters to editors start cropping up around the country explaining clearly how she's a "Criminal Enabler." Op-eds patiently identifying CitiBank, Levi's, and the mayors of quite a few American cities as being "Anti Liberty" will serve our purpose well. Diane Feinstein being associated quite easily as a "Nurturer of Criminals" will turn a few heads. And, more importantly, eventually people who've been swayed against guns will finally begin to Think for themselves. Some weeks back there was an online presentation of each of the Presidential candidates' views on the right to carry guns. This took place a day or two after one good woman in the Phoenix area was raped and shot. (For those of you who missed that story, she survived, and the assailant's second intended victim inflicted fatal lead poisoning upon his murderous brow.) My response was an article entitled "Al Gore Wants Women Raped." Some folks said that was going a bit too far, and I conceded. I cannot say he wants women raped with certainty. I can say with certainty Al Gore wants to make the work of rapists a hell of a lot easier. Angel Shamaya Criminal Stop Sign http://www.keepandbeararms.org webmaster@keepandbeararms.org What could happen if every American heard the truth about what gun control is doing to our society? If you could pitch in a few bucks to make sure many Americans would be presented the truth through the media, would you consider it? Please invest 5 minutes looking over the most intelligent pro-gun media campaign in America today by visiting http://www.citizensofamerica.org *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Angel Shamaya Email Update Editor Webmaster, List Administrator webmaster@keepandbeararms.org H. S. "Gunnie" Reagan, Ph.D., D.D. Web Site Inspiration gunnie@keepandbeararms.org *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Feedback and Support are welcome at our web site. See our revised concept for unifying the gun rights community at http://www.keepandbeararms.org/concept_for_unity.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: FYI. Terry Gump on Second Amendment. Date: 22 Feb 2000 11:47:13 -0700 ----- dgb To All, Read Terry Gump's brilliant, inspiring example of parliamentary tact and constitutional understanding! And folks, next time please remember that the Second Amendment has nothing to do with guns -- or guns in schools and churches. You activist-types are so embarrassing! Mr. Black ------BEGIN TRIBUNE SEGMENT------- http://www.sltrib.com/2000/feb/02192000/legislat/legislat.htm Hooper resident and gun activist Brent Odenwalder disagreed. He claimed the bills were an attempt to create a risk-free society and "the only Utopia was in Nazi Germany." Odenwalder was repeatedly gaveled out of order by Judiciary Chairman Terry Spencer for bringing up constitutional arguments. "DO NOT GET OFF INTO TANGENTIAL SUBJECTS LIKE THE SECOND AMENDMENT," Spencer warned. He backed down only when Sen. Parley Hellewell complained that witnesses should be free to say what they please in their allotted three minutes. ------END TRIBUNE SEGMENT------- [Interpretation: "C'mon you guys! This is about disarming the citizenry and exercising absolute and tyrannical control over them, not about the Second Amendment! Stop trying to derail our progress!] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-22: MAJOR NEW THREAT!, A BIG VICTORY!! Date: 22 Feb 2000 20:52:13 -0700 Major NEW threat! VICTORY!! Beattie's schools, churches bills DEAD! Committee hearings Wed. Today's actions (partial) Volunteers needed! MAJOR NEW THREAT! HB 363 - Gun Restrictions Amendments (G. Cox) Anti-gun fanatic Gary Cox has taken the WORST of this year's crop of gun control bills and combined it all into the Mother of Rights Revocations bills. HB 363 includes: LIFETIME REVOCATION OF RIGHTS for MISDEMEANORS! Unconstitutional "ex post facto" revocation of rights for juveniles - NO jury trial, and some MISDEMEANORS are included LIFETIME REVOCATION OF RIGHTS for anyone who has EVER been committed to a mental institution - even wrongful commitments! LIFETIME REVOCATION OF RIGHTS for possession of a marijuana seed or a single "illegal" pain pill. LIFETIME REVOCATION OF RIGHTS for those (like Michael New) dishonorably discharged for political reasons. HB 363 will be heard WEDNESDAY FEB. 23, 4 PM, Rm. 223, House Judiciary Committee Please plan to attend! Please contact members of the committee and insist that they OPPOSE HB 363! A. Lamont Tyler, Chair 801-272-1218 Glenn L. Way, Vice Chair 801-798-2295 John Swallow 801-572-8201 Katherine Bryson 801-226-2061 Martin Stephens 801-731-5346 Bill Hickman 435-673-2671 Chad Bennion 801-281-1607 Greg Curtis 801-943-3091 Patrice Arent 801-272-1956 Neal Hendrickson 801-969-8920 Gary Cox 801-967-6790 BEATTIE'S BILLS KILLED! Thanks to YOUR EFFORTS, Senate President Lane Beattie called a press conference today to announce that he would kill SB 161S1 (Hall passes for gun owners) and SB 162S2 (Government-mandated persecution of gun owners by churches). According to Sen. Valentine, he and Sen. Hellewell (both of whom voted FOR these bad bills in committee!) got so much negative feedback from YOU that they met with Sen. Beattie and asked him to kill the bills. What we're doing WORKS! Today's press conference was eerily reminiscent of Beattie's similar press conference two years ago when he killed a similar bill banning guns in schools and churches. All of you deserve credit for this victory! THANK YOU!! UTGuns hopes that this time, Sen. Beattie will learn from experience. MORE COMMITTEE HEARING WEDNESDAY! Senate Judiciary, 8 AM, Rm. 416 HB 161 - Background Checks for Weapons Purchase (Tyler) This is JUVENILE BRADY, and open juvenile records to BCI for background checks. It is an unconstitutional ex post facto law, and violates the principle that rights may not be revoked except by a jury trial. Senate Transportation and Public Safety, 8 AM, Rm 403 HB 245 - Hysteria in Public Schools (Wright) This bill would require the parents of students who bring a toy or pretend gun to school to meet with school administrators to discuss possible expulsion. It would NOT apply to students who commit actual violent crimes such as rape or assault, so long as no firearm is involved. Do we really want to teach our kids that violent crime is less serious than possession of a water pistol?! The real purpose of the bill, according to sponsor Rep. Bill Wright, is getting federal funds. SB 32 - Marksmanship Tests for Concealed Carry (R. Allen) This bill would require an annual marksmanship test to get or keep a concealed carry permit. It would also require registration of each gun that you carry or might carry. Estimated costs are $50-$100 per year, per gun, for a concealed carry permit! And how many innocent people have been killed or injured by concealed carry permittees who didn't pass a marksmanship test? ZERO!! The real point is to return to the days where only the wealthy elite were "permitted" to carry a gun, NOT to "increase public safety". House Judiciary Committee, 4 PM, Rm. 223 HB 363 - Revocation of Rights (G. Cox) See above! TODAY'S ACTIONS SB 200 - Mental Health Commitments (Montgomery) passed the Senate and has been introduced in the House. HB 296 - Prevention of Retaliatory Lawsuits (Lockhart) passed the House with a unanimous vote (71-0-4) and is now in the Senate. HB 173 - Computer forfeiture (Buckner) passed the Senate Human Services committee today (3-0-2) and will now go to the Senate floor for its final votes. HB 124 - Asset forfeiture revisions (Wright) Still in committee, so no word yet! VOLUNTEERS NEEDED! As you can tell from the above, there are THREE gun bills being heard at 8 AM tomorrow. If you can attend one of these hearings, (or the 4 PM hearing on HB 363), please let me know. We need pro-gun people at EACH of these hearings! You can reach me by email (righter@therighter.com) or at 801-566-1067. NOTE: Thursday is the LAST day for committee hearings. After that, bills are voted on WITHOUT public comment. We expect major attacks on our rights during the final days of the session, so please keep YOUR legislators' contact information handy. Also, make sure House and Senate leadership know that you expect them to protect our rights! Contact information is available at http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/contact.html. DELEGATES NEEDED!! We need to organize to elect pro-gun, pro-Constitution people to serve as our elected officials! Many of you have written to ask what YOU can do to help! The UTGuns delegate information and recruitment pages are now up and working! Please go to http://www.utguns.freeservers.com/volunteer.html and sign up to volunteer! Please forward this information to your pro-rights friends, neighbors and relatives. We need as many people as possible working to elect good people! With YOUR help, the next legislative session will see far fewer attacks on our rights! With YOUR help, we can have a Governor who will VETO unconstitutional, anti-gun bills! With YOUR help, we can have pro-gun Congressmen and Senators in Washington. With YOUR help, we can have an attorney general who supports the Constitutions of Utah and the US as written! Without YOUR help, next year will be worse. PLEASE VOLUNTEER! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: Dave Jones on Guns Date: 23 Feb 2000 08:23:05 -0700 I don't see "also" before "including". This seems to indicate the quoted "law" addresses *only* those "violations" listed. Scott ----- David Jones sent me this reply: David, The current law under the section that the bill dealt with reads 31 any serious violation affecting another student or a staff member, or any serious 32 violation occurring in a school building, in or on school property, or in conjunction with any 33 school activity, including the possession, control, or actual or threatened use of a real, look alike, 34 or pretend weapon, explosive, or noxious or flammable material under Section 53A-3-502 , or the 35 sale, control, or distribution of a drug or controlled substance as defined in Section 58-37-2, an 36 imitation controlled substance defined in Section 58-37b-2 , or drug paraphernalia as defined in 37 Section 58-37a-3 ; or" The law with the strong punishment of toy guns is already in Utah code. The bill with ammendments served to establish a policy that would allow a violating student to return to school contingent on the local school board. It also required an annual report of such proceeding be produced. The ammendments I felt were less stringent than current law. I agree with your strong desire to address actual violence in the school. I also think that students should follow positive examples, and hence I ran a bill this legislative session that would ban concealed weapons permit carriers, excluding peace officers and other exceptions, into schools. While not addressing the causes of violence I feel that these bills address safety issues. I respect your opinion and thank you for taking the time to share it with me. Thank you for taking the time to involve yourself in the political process. Sincerely Rep. Dave Jones Democrat Minority Leader - House of Representatives So there you have it: it is a negative example to our school children to exercise God-given rights. Shame on us! Dave Hansen - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: REP. WRIGHT BETRAYAL! H.B 124 Forfeiture Date: 23 Feb 2000 08:31:13 -0700 ----- PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY! Rep. Bill Wright, with shocking contempt for his previous supporters, crossed enemy lines today to present his forfeiture PRESERVATION and EXPANSION H.B. 124. Using the tactics of the LEFT, he produced 3rd Substitute of this bill without warning at the committee hearing today at 4 P.M. This substitute was written by Clark Harms, confiscation king of Utah! Among the provisions Wright/Harms have included is the ability for the police to pronounce forfeiture immediately upon seizure. NO TRIAL, NO JURY, NO JUSTICE! ALL POWER TO THE POLICE! Without delay please contact your Representative and inform him/her that you have no tolerance for this treachery. Also contact Rep. Wright and Rep. Swallow (co-sponsor), and express your outrage that they would attack authentic reform with their counterfeit H.B. 124, 3rd substitute. I will follow up soon with additional details on this traitorous assault! Arnold - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: FW: LEG-ALERTS 2-24: The final stretch Date: 25 Feb 2000 10:03:23 -0700 ---------- Today's activities Tomorrow's votes Rules Committees HB 124 TODAY'S ACTIVITIES HB 176S3 -Weapons Restrictions for Mentally Ill (G. Cox) was passed by the Senate Judiciary Committee today by a vote of 5-0-1. It now goes to the Senate floor for a vote. SB 32S2 - Marksmanship Tests for Concealed Carry (R. Allen) was held in the Senate Transportation Committee. Since there are no more committee meetings, it will not have a committee vote. Senate rules prohibit voting on a bill that has not had a committee review. However, this rule will almost certainly be suspended, allowing a possible floor vote sometime next week. HB 296 - Prevention of Retaliatory Lawsuits (Lockhart) was also held in committee. If Rules are suspended, this bill will likely have a floor vote next week. FRIDAY'S VOTES The following bills are scheduled for a vote on Friday. Please let your Senator and Representative know how you would like them to vote! SENATE VOTES Bills to OPPOSE: HB 161, Background Checks (Tyler) - Juvenile Brady HB 173, Forfeiture (Buckner) - Forfeiture of computer equipment HB 245, Safety in Public Schools (Wright) - treats non-violent offenses as more serious than violent offenses! Bills to SUPPORT: HB 199, Limitation of Liability (Throckmorton) - prevents frivolous lawsuits against gun manufacturers. HOUSE VOTES Bills to OPPOSE: HB 124 - Asset Forfeiture Revisions (Wright) - This bill makes Utah's already abusive asset forfeiture laws even worse by allowing for the seizure of property with absolutely NO due process! SB 72 - Restricted Persons (Spencer) - Juvenile Brady RULES COMMITTEES With one exception, review committee hearings are over for this session. Bills will now have floor votes ONLY. Of course there are hundreds of bills still awaiting votes! Will all of them have votes? Which ones will be heard when? These decisions are made by the RULES committees. The Rules Committees (House Rules and Senate Rules) prioritize bills and send them to the floor for a vote. They can also "hold" a bill in Rules long enough that it does NOT have a floor vote, and therefore doesn't become law. (Legislators can vote to have a bill released from Rules, however.) Obviously, the Rules Committees play a very important role, especially during the final days of the session. So it's essential that you let members of the Rules Committees know which bills you would like to see released for a final vote, and which ones you would like to see held. Senate Rules Sen. Leonard M. Blackham, lblackha@le.state.ut.us, 435-436-8489 Sen. Joseph L. Hull, jhull@le.state.ut.us, 801-731-3705 Sen. Paula Julander, pjulande@le.state.ut.us, 801-363-0868 Sen. Eddie "Ed" P. Mayne, emayne@le.state.ut.us, 801-968-7756 Sen. L. Steven Poulton Chair, spoulton@le.state.ut.us, 801-272-4338 Sen. Terry Spencer, tspencer@le.state.ut.us, 801-543-4450 Sen. Michael G. Waddoups, mwaddoup@le.state.ut.us, 801-967-0225 All can be contacted at 801-538-1035. Email list (cut and paste) lblackha@le.state.ut.us, jhull@le.state.ut.us, pjulande@le.state.ut.us, emayne@le.state.ut.us, spoulton@le.state.ut.us, tspencer@le.state.ut.us, mwaddoup@le.state.ut.us House Rules Rep. Gerry A. Adair, gadair@le.state.ut.us, 801-773-2125 Rep. Ron Bigelow, rbigelow@le.state.ut.us, 801-968-4188 Rep. Blake D. Chard, bchard@le.state.ut.us, 801-773-7474 Rep. Gary F. Cox, gcox@le.state.ut.us, 801-967-9760 Rep. David L. Gladwell Vice Chair, dgladwel@le.state.ut.us,801-782-4130 Rep. Brent H. Goodfellow, bgoodfel@le.state.ut.us, 801-968-0626 Rep. Tom Hatch, thatch@le.state.ut.us, 435-676-2214 Rep. Neal B. Hendrickson, nhendric@le.state.ut.us, 801-969-8120 Rep. David L. Hogue, dhogue@le.state.ut.us, 801-254-1668 Rep. Susan J. Koehn Chair, skoehn@le.state.ut.us, 801-296-1761 Rep. Raymond W. Short, rshort@le.state.ut.us, 801-277-1372 All can be contacted at 801-538-1029. Email list: gadair@le.state.ut.us, rbigelow@le.state.ut.us, bchard@le.state.ut.us, gcox@le.state.ut.us, dgladwel@le.state.ut.us, bgoodfel@le.state.ut.us, thatch@le.state.ut.us, nhendric@le.state.ut.us, dhogue@le.state.ut.us, skoehn@le.state.ut.us, rshort@le.state.ut.us HB 124 - Asset Forfeiture (Wright, Swallow) The following bill analysis was written by Arnold Gaunt, and edited for brevity by Sarah. PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY! February 24, 2000 Contents Property Confiscation Legislation Passes Committee More Police Power to Steal Your Property Rep. Wright's Record of Betrayal KILL H.B. 124 Property Confiscation Legislation Passes Committee An extremely dangerous piece of confiscation legislation, H.B. 124 3rd Substitute, was passed Tuesday by the Government Operations Committee. This legislation, sponsored by Rep. Bill Wright (and co-sponsored by Rep. John Swallow), passed the Committee with an 8-2 vote. http://www.le.state.ut.us/~2000/bills/hbillamd/HB0124S3.htm More Police Power to Steal Your Property While promoted as authentic forfeiture reform, the bill in fact creates shocking forfeiture power previously unknown in Utah. On lines 103 and 104, it states that the "following are contraband, are summarily forfeited upon seizure, and no property rights exist in them". This power is reinforced and expanded on lines 232 through 235, which reads: "All substances listed in Schedules I through V, and all items listed in Subsections (2) and (3)(a), (b), and (d) that are possessed, transferred, distributed, or offered for distribution in violation of this chapter are contraband, are summarily forfeited, and no property right exists in them." What summary forfeiture means is that property such as lawful prescription drugs (such as those at a pharmacy), farming equipment and materials including tractors, trucks, and fertilizer, insulin dispensing equipment, aircraft, automobiles, boats, books, and computers can be confiscated without any due process of law. Once your property is seized by the police, there will no opportunity to recover it in court. The decision of the police is FINAL! Another expansion of police power is found on lines 188-192, where explicit authority is granted for law enforcement to seize your car without a warrant. This government theft mechanism has been used in states such as Louisiana, where out of state vehicles are easily seized and forfeited given the nearly impossible odds and overwhelming financial burden of an out-of-state owner proving the vehicle's innocence. Forfeiture powers are expanded to allow the federal police (i.e. BATF, FBI, DEA, SS (Secret Service), etc.) the ability to enforce Utah's laws (see lines 94-98). With the Utah forfeiture code at their disposal, federal police are provided extensive opportunities to threaten and steal from innocent people with impunity. More significant than the expansion of forfeiture powers just cited is the absence of any restriction on the ability of state law enforcement to transfer seized property to the federal government to circumvent Utah's laws (such as the recent Utah Supreme Court decision prohibiting disproportionate or excessive forfeitures). Without this restriction, any protective present or future provision of Utah law can subverted by the police turning the seized property over to the federal government. The federal law does not require court action to accomplish the forfeiture, so forfeiture is usually a mere formality. Then, up to 80% of the proceeds are returned to the state's seizing agency. KILL H.B. 124 Please contact your Representative immediately and urge the defeat of any version of H.B. 124 (call 801-538-1029 and ask for your legislator to return your call if not available). Thanks to all of you for your calls, your presence at committee hearings, and your support! Sarah - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott Bergeson Subject: "Liberals" Date: 29 Feb 2000 15:53:32 -0700 Armies of Chaos by L. Neil Smith Before anyone proposes more gun control, he or she should know about a simple, deadly weapon 4 times as powerful as Dirty Harry's legendary .44 Magnum -- and at least twice as concealable -- that can't be controlled. This simple, deadly weapon can be made by anyone—even a child—with unpowered hand tools in an hour's time using $5 worth of materials, most of which are available around the house anyway. In traditional form it's reusable an unlimited number of times, and modern plastics have rendered its disposable version electronically undetectable. You can clear a room with such a weapon (more of a hand-held directional grenade than a gun—sort of a recycleable Claymore mine) and it's just one of hundreds of similar time-proven designs. Complete instructions for building this simple, deadly weapon could be given in half the space I'm using here and not require a single illustration. Or it could be done as a line-drawing and not require a word. Either way, the results would Xerox splendidly and reduce, for effortless distribution, to the size of a 3X5 card. No, I'm not making this up. Self-styled liberal academics and politicians generally suffer an ancient Greek prejudice against the manual trades and often fail to comprehend what it means, with respect to banning weapons, that we're a nation of basement lathe-operators. Americans unknowingly tend to follow Mohammed's precept that, whatever a person's station in life, he or she should also do something manual, if only to stay grounded in reality. And if there's any lingering doubt about the ease of basic weaponscraft, ask the Israelis who, early in their nation's history, turned out submachineguns little more complicated than what I'm discussing here, in automotive garages lacking even a lathe. Civilized restraint precludes my describing the weapon in any greater detail here. Many gun enthusiasts will know by now exactly what I refer to, anyway. It's in everyday use in much of the Third World, especially where governments foolishly believe that they've outlawed weapons. But that, of course, is impossible—unless the same governments want to try repealing the last 1000 years of civil engineering. Now suppose somebody went ahead and wrote out those easy-to-follow instructions, made that line drawing, or simply Xeroxed it from any of 100 sources already in print. Suppose the plans for a reusable, undetectable weapon 4 times as powerful as a .44 Magnum and twice as concealable began circulating on every junior high school campus in America. Or suppose they were simply sent to the media who can never resist giving viewers step-by-step directions for committing a crime—even as they bemoan the terribleness of it all. So what, you say. So this: within hours, every self-styled liberal academic and politician extant would begin to weep, wail, and whimper (the only thing they're really good at) and before the media-amplified screaming was over—but after the legislature had met—we'd find that the rights protected by the First Amendment (not created or granted, mind you, only recognized and guaranteed) are no more secure than those supposedly protected by the Second. Free expression would be trampled under without another thought or a moment's hesitation by the same jackals, vultures, and hyenas currently leading the stampede to outlaw weapons—using exactly the same excuses. When Xerox machines are outlawed, only outlaws will have Xerox machines. Human rights are indivisible because there's really only one—the right to remain unmolested by the government or by anybody else. Those who threaten one right threaten them all—and aren't really "liberals" by any definition of the word. Suppressing the human right to own and carry weapons is a step toward suppressing the human right to read, write, and think. Ask Canadians, for whom censorship is a fact of daily life, and for whom certain "assault" books (many of them published by Paladin Press) are on the "hafta smuggle it in" list. The same thing can and will happen here. Haven't we had ample warning in the way self-styled liberals, assisted by the corrupt media, suppress their opposition on these and other issues? Or in their willingness to present lies as truth while the truth is called a lie? Or in the fact that elected officials who advocate gun control—which is a felony—are still at large instead of behind bars where they belong? The very existence of a gun control lobby gives the lie to any claim they make to liberalism. The word "liberal" itself is false advertising, and the question arises, why do we go on applying it when the word "fascist" is so much more appropriate? A popular bumper sticker proclaims that "GUN CONTROL IS PEOPLE CONTROL". More to the point, and far more sinister, gun control is MIND control. The relationship only begins with ludicrous attempts by self-styled liberals to convince a population protected by the Second Amendment that the Bill of Rights doesn't mean what it says. Weapons consist of more than machined steel or wood, cast aluminum or plastic. As John M. Browning or Sam Colt would tell you, their second-most vital component is an idea. (The first, for better or worse, is the will to use them.) Without that idea behind it, all the steel, wood, aluminum, and plastic in the world doesn't make a weapon. Those who would outlaw weapons must first outlaw the knowledge of weapons. And those who would outlaw the knowledge of weapons must outlaw knowledge itself. Similarly, civilization consists of more than just impressive public buildings and a battery of arbitrary rules. Its continued existence depends absolutely on the day-to-day good will of each and every individual. History (especially recent Soviet history) proves that this good will depends on how well individual rights are respected. Alienate the individual, lose his good will, and you lose civilization itself. Think I exaggerate? Take another look at Beirut, Los Angeles, or the World Trade Center. Every day we learn again how dependent we've been all along on individual self-restraint. Self-styled liberals label this lesson "terrorism" because it makes them feel better and helps them to forget until tomorrow. But it doesn't matter what they call it. In sufficient numbers, disaffected individuals become armies of chaos, reducing whole civilizations to archaeological rubble. And, as with most violence in our culture, it is self-styled liberals who will make it happen here. -