From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #11 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Wednesday, January 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 011 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 18:20:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: JPFO announces their NEW web site! - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Chris W. Stark - GOA Texas Representative" To: "GOA Texas Pro-Gun Activists"@majordomo.pobox.com, [e-mail_subscribers]@mailhost.onramp.net Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:56:08 +0000 JPFO announces their NEW web site! http://www.JPFO.org e-mail: Against-Genocide@JPFO.org 12/30/97 Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) Aaron Zelman - Executive Director 2874 So. Wentworth Ave. Milwaukee, WI 53207 Ph. (414) 769-0760 Fax (414) 483-8435 ****IMPORTANT!!!**** ****************************************************************** IF YOU HAVE WEB LINKS TO THE OLD JPFO WEB SITE, PLEASE BE SURE TO UPDATE YOUR LINKS WITH OUR NEW WEB SITE URL, AND E-MAIL ADDRESS! THE OLD WEB SITE WILL NOT BE OPERATIONAL SOON! ****************************************************************** We are proud to announce our NEW web site for JPFO, along with many new improvements, and additional areas of interest for all freedom loving Americans. All of our changes are not yet present as we write this announcement, and are due to appear soon. You must go to the web site often to see the continuing updates for yourself! We would like to thank ALL of our friends who have made this possible, for without their support and help, this major step would have not been possible. We would especially like to thank Leroy Pyle, the former web master for pioneering and forging the path on the internet for us. Leroy has sacrificed when he simply did not have the time to lend us. Our sincere gratitude to you, Leroy! Best regards, AND a happy new year!! ************************************************************** Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership Chris W. Stark - Director of Electronic Communications P.O. Box 1924 Crosby, TX 77532-1924 Voice: (713) 217-0649 e-mail: Against-Genocide@JPFO.org Visit our Web Page at: http://www.JPFO.org "America's Most Aggressive Defender of Firearms Ownership." **************************************************************** Gun Owners of America Chris W. Stark - Texas Representative P.O. Box 1924 Crosby, TX 77532-1924 Voice: (713) 217-0649 e-mail: Director@GOA-Texas.org Visit our Web Page at: http://www.GOA-Texas.org Support "The only no compromise gun lobby in Washington." "A Voice for Texas Gun Owners!" ***************************** Become a member of GOA TODAY! ***************************** Australia's Pro-Gun Group MEMBERSHIPS are growing at 400% ! But its too late for them! DONT WAIT UNTIL ITS TOO LATE! MAKE A DIFFERENCE TODAY! Go to our web site for more info on memberships. **************************************************************** "No class or group or party in Germany could escape its share of responsibility for the abandonment of the democratic Republic and the advent of Adolf Hitler. The cardinal error of the Germans who opposed Nazism was their failure to unite against it. ....the 63% of the German people who expressed their opposition to Hitler were much too divided and shortsighted to combine against a common danger which they must have known would overwhelm them unless they united, HOWEVER TEMPORARY, to stamp it out." - -William L. Shirer, author; "The rise and fall of the Third Reich" **p.259** ....they who do not learn from History are DOOMED to repeat it!! - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 17:54:05 -0700 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Re: Century Arms & ATF Firearms Survey >Date: 12/24/97 3:12 AM > >RE: Re: Century Arms & ATF Firearms Survey >TJJOHNSTN wrote: >> >> Century Arms is attempting to organize a response to the ATF "sporting >> purposes" survey. I think it is important for all ranges and gun clubs to join >> in their response. >> >> TJ Johnston >> >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ----------- >> While BATF determines whether any of the above are "generally >> recognized" as suitable for "sporting purposes", they have stated >> that anyone wishing to comment on their suitability for "sporting >> purposes" can have something in writing to them by January 9th, 1998. >> Therefore we have undertaken this initiative to complete the following >> survey which results will be forwarded to BATF before the deadline. >> >> The bottom line is that we feel the public response to this survey can >> make a difference in their decision in not banning this group of firearms >> and who knows which group next year? >> >> We have created a survey at: www.centuryarms.com/survey.htm which we >> will collect and provide the results to BATF. >> >> We are asking that you provide us a link on your front page of web site >> and assist us in any other way you can during the short time we have >> remaining, as this will effect everyone! >> >> Please let me know how you can help. Time is of the essence. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Century Int'l Arms >> >> Please go to this web address and fill out the questionaire that is located >> there. It directly affects us all. >> >> http://www.centuryarms.com/survey.htm > >T.J., I don't give a fuck whether any firearm is suitable for "sporting >purposes" or not, and I'm starting not to care whether or not our legal >and lobbying efforts are sufficient to prevent the current group of >gangsters from unleashing a reign of terror upon the privately armed >American citizenry in order to terrorize us into giving up our arms. > >If the American people are as spineless as the Brits and the Aussies, >then we don't deserve freedom. If some of the stubborn backbone that led >to the kicking out of George the 3rd is left in this country, then >either the gunbanners will be kicked out of office peacably or they will >create additional occasions for violence and provoke another bloody >civil war, in which many Americans will die. Considering that I'll >probably be one of the first lined up againsty the wall and shot, I >won't have to live with the consequences of their lethal foolishness. > >Efforts at disarming the American people only serve to break the social >contract forged in 1775, 1787, and 1791. If the American people still >like that deal -- the idea that the people are sovereign and the >government is inferior to the people -- they're going to have to make it >a lot plainer than they've done so far. > >And if they don't, then all the lobbying and court challenges that we >raise will be for nought anyway. > >I have more faith in the steadfastness of the American people in their >love of liberty than do our enemies. Let them do their worst. It will >merely test us once again. > >Neil > > >-- >"When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however >improbable, must be the truth." - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, THE SIGN OF >FOUR > >J. Neil Schulman / Pulpless.Com > Voice & Fax: (500) 44-JNEIL > Internet: jneil@pulpless.com > Personal Web Page: http://www.pulpless.com/jneil/ I vote with Neil! Sarah Sarah Thompson, M.D. PO Box 1185 Sandy, UT 84091-1185 http://www.therighter.com An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. - -Winston Churchill - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 19:00:47 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Colt CEO's Editorial: (fwd) -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) id PAA23429; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:16:18 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 15:16:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma023408; Fri Jan 2 15:15:59 1998 Message-Id: <9801021918.03p9@xpresso.seaslug.org> Errors-To: listproc@fs1.mainstream.com Reply-To: noban@xpresso.seaslug.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: noban@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Colt CEO's Editorial: (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list With, "friends", like these....... On Jan 02, Paul Nixon wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] (I don't recall if this has been posted here. If so, I apologize for the duplication) >From American Firearms Industry, December 1997 p18 THIS MONTH'S GUEST EDITORIAL by Ron Stewart, CEO and President of Colt's Manufacturing Millions of American Citizens own firearms. For the most part these citizens enjoy the use of their firearms in a safe and responsible way for hunting, skeet shooting, trap shooting, target shooting and other recreational sports. Over the last few years, however, the "gun control issue" has gained center stage due to the relentless, negative campaign launched by the gun control lobby. They want to put us all out of business, manufacturers, dealers and distributors, and eliminate our Second Amendment rights. Ironically, with the exception of the Brady bill and the assault weapons ban which passed last year, no gun control legislation passed in Congress this year and the much-touted Washington State referendum failed. Given this recent reprieve, one could almost believe the debate has ended and the gun control lobby has been silenced. Unfortunately, a November 20, 1997 article in the Wall Street Journal entitled "Big Guns in the Media Take Aim Against Firearms" reminds us that the gun control lobby is more determined than ever to put firearms manufacturers out of business, and they are devising new methods to achieve their goals. The reality is that we are about to be hit by a new wave of attacks on our industry and the key battleground is that of public opinion. Failure to address this issue aggressively could be devastating. The question that begs to be answered is why is the gun industry being so singularly targeted when statistics and public opinion appear to be on our side? In my opinion, the answer is simple: the anti-gun lobby argument focuses on the fact that innocent people, including children, are occasionally the victims of firearms. The gun control lobby has become dangerously adept at using manipulative public relations campaigns and high powered public relations firms to portray the fireams industry as villainous and self-serving. By contrast, the firearms industry has consistently and ardously taken the lead in advocating the implementing strong [sic] measures to improve weapons safety. Despite this fact, we have not been successful in presenting our case to the public. We have allowed ourselves to sit back and ignore the problem, thus becoming part of it. Silence is acceptance. Our responses to the anti-gun lobby are ill-postured, defensive and pathetically inadequate when we accept watered down versions of their agenda and nod our heads in agreement to their publicity stunts while, we as an industry, do abhor the unsafe use of handguns. It would be a grievous mistake to allow the next wave of attacks by the gun control lobby to back us into a corner and for us to respond as we have in the past. The time has come to take the high ground and pre-empt their next strike. We need to focus on two fronts: advocate programs that promote safe firearm practices and take the lead in developing new technologies to improve firearm safety. Today's reality requires that consumers and industry work together to responsibly address the issue of gun safety. Given the skillful manipulation of public perception by the anti- gun lobby, we need to rally our large base of support to make certain that our message and, most importantly, our actions, are getting through to the public. To accomplish this I offer the following five courses of action: 1) The creation of a research and development program to further firearms technology toward more advanced methods that promote safety (such as personalized firearms). While technology such as this should not be mandated it should be an option for the consumer. If we can send a motorized computer to Mars, then certainly we advance our technology to be more childproof. 2) The passage of a comprehensive federal firearms law, including the creation of a federal gun permit, that would pre-empt the hodgepodge of local ordinances. I heard several manufacturers complain to the Attorney General in Massachusetts that we already have serial numbers on our firearms so why do we need a second set of serial numbers. If he and the others mandate hidden serial numbers then we would likely have to live with 50 different state regulations. Why not federalize this standard - isn't that a protective measure that prevents illegal ownership if a firearm? 3) Emphasize responsibility and accountability where it belongs. We ought to give serious consideration to gun permit requirement that would necessitate each permit holder to undergo thorough firearms training and pass a uniform examination. The law also should require that dealers qualify as certified firearms instructors and actively participate in training the public concerning the safe the [sic] appropriate handling of guns. The distribution chain should embrace this as it should stimulate sales. 4) We believe that legislative reform should ensue to prohibit the bringing of so called "defectless" product liability cases, such as the Hamilton case, against the firearms industry. We as defendants, need to take the offensive in gun cases, which remedies should include obtaining sanctions against certain plaintiffs for bringing frivilous lawsuits, and, when warranted, seeking REDRESS [emphasis in original] against those persons failing to safeguard weapons used to cause wrongful injury or death. 5) The creation of a joint industry commitee to study firearms technology and safety mechanisms. I challenge the industry to respond; to work together and act upon this proposed course of action, NOW. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 19:17:57 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: FWD: Pro RKBA Attorneys -Forwarded Received: (qmail 986 invoked by alias); 2 Jan 1998 21:48:48 -0000 Delivered-To: rkba-co-outgoing@majordomo.pobox.com Received: (qmail 903 invoked by uid 516); 2 Jan 1998 21:48:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 877 invoked from network); 2 Jan 1998 21:48:40 -0000 Received: from snarf.avana.net (HELO Email.Avana.Net) (root@205.245.133.9) by majordomo.pobox.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 1998 21:48:40 -0000 Received: from tiger.avana.net (tiger.avana.net [205.245.133.2]) by Email.Avana.Net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA27240; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:49:04 -0500 Received: from jerry.avana.net (atl120.avana.net [205.245.133.120]) by tiger.avana.net (8.8.7/8.8.6) with SMTP id QAA14356; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 16:48:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <34AD63B6.7C0@2die4.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 17:01:26 -0500 From: Nancy Organization: REAL Pro SECOND AMENDMENT Activist-never give up X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: texas-gun-owners@zilker.net, rkba-co@majordomo.pobox.com, pa-rkba@pobox.com, FIREARMS@LISTSERV.UTA.EDU Subject: FWD: Pro RKBA Attorneys Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-rkba-co.new@majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rkba-co@majordomo.pobox.com Posted to rkba-co by Nancy - ----------------------- PRESS RELEASE -- PRO-GUN ATTORNEYS WANTED FOR WEB-BASED CONTACT LIST As a public service I have decided to provide space available on my web page for any of my fellow pro-gun rights attorneys who would like to make available their basic contact information. You do not need to be a "Second Amendment lawyer;" you only need to be pro-gun. Please email your submissions to , , or via a posting to me in the Paul Revere Network in the following format: Name Firm & Address Phone # Fax # Internet email address Home page URL Areas of practice Bar admissions RKBA Organizational Memberships Please feel free to cross-post this message *where appropriate* and forward it to anyone you think would be interested. * 1st 2.00 ~ Visit my home page: http://www.erols.com/dsmjd For Help with Majordomo Commands, please send a message to: Majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com with the word Help in the body of the message - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 19:19:11 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: [INFO] Converse and HCI -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) id WAA15077; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:56:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:56:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma015046; Thu Jan 1 22:55:36 1998 Message-Id: <0B9304434FFFCF118F400000F822310D0204437E@cscnts9.rti.org> Errors-To: listproc@fs1.mainstream.com Reply-To: jbp@rti.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: "Posthill, John B." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [INFO] Converse and HCI X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Noban: >From the HCI web page: ******** The Converse STAR Team Program, 1995-1997 The Converse STAR Team Program is a joint effort of Converse Inc. and Center to Prevent Handgun Violence. This collaborative project represents the Center's first and largest corporate partnership. The program is designed to raise awareness among children and teens, especially urban teens, about the risks and consequences associated with illegal possession and use of handguns. The program will also, importantly, give children and teens engaged in the national STAR program a prominent voice and highlight their solutions to America's escalating crisis of handgun violence. Prominent athletes serve as spokespersons for the 3-year program: Latrell Sprewell Kevin Johnson, formerly of the Phoenix Suns Sharone Wright of the Toronto Raptors Nikki McCray of USA Basketball Carla McGhee of USA Basketball Katy Steding of USA Basketball Converse athletes and STAR youth are featured in a short educational video stressing alternatives and solutions to handguns and violence. Seven TV PSAs are being broadcast nationally with the same message strategy. A youth-oriented brochure stressing the theme of alternatives to guns and violence is being distributed at basketball camps, in displays at retail outlets where Converse products are sold, and through the Center's STAR program. (snip) ************** Is Converse anti-gun? Why are they doing this with HCI? Gun owners need to know about this. But, you do have to love Latrell Sprewell being at the top of the list educating kids about non-violence! (well, at least he didn't use a gun... :-) John Posthill (P.S. more from the web page: Converse STAR Team: STAR, or Straight Talk About Risks, is the Nation's premier gun-violence prevention program for school-aged youth and their families. [puke!] Worse yet, they are piloting this in the public schools in Dade Co., FL.) - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 06:20:15 -0800 (PST) From: jwaldron@halcyon.com Subject: Re: [INFO] Converse and HCI -Forwarded On Fri, 02 Jan 1998, DAVID SAGERS wrote: > >>From the HCI web page: > >******** >The Converse STAR Team Program, > 1995-1997 > >The Converse STAR Team Program is a joint effort of Converse Inc. and >Center to Prevent >Handgun Violence. This collaborative project represents the Center's >first and largest >corporate partnership. The program is designed to raise awareness among >children and >teens, especially urban teens, about the risks and consequences >associated with illegal >possession and use of handguns. > >The program will also, importantly, give children and teens engaged in >the national STAR >program a prominent voice and highlight their solutions to America's >escalating crisis of >handgun violence. > >Prominent athletes serve as spokespersons for the 3-year program: > > Latrell Sprewell > >Converse athletes and STAR youth are featured in a short educational >video stressing >alternatives and solutions to handguns and violence. What a joke. I guess the "alternatives" include choking and punching... For those that are not aware of it, STAR (Straight Talk About Risks) is often billed as HCI/CPHV's counter to eddie Eagle. In fact, it is a rabidly anti-gun political action program that indoctrinates children K-12 to lobby lawmakers and community leaders to pass more gun control laws, etc. About three years ago, NRA-ILA chief researcher Paul Blackman did an excellent analysis of STAR. They may still have a copy available. Converse needs to be told in straight and clear term what y are involved with... and then let the market decide. Joe W > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 06:20:15 -0800 (PST) From: jwaldron@halcyon.com Subject: Re: [INFO] Converse and HCI -Forwarded On Fri, 02 Jan 1998, DAVID SAGERS wrote: > >>From the HCI web page: > >******** >The Converse STAR Team Program, > 1995-1997 > >The Converse STAR Team Program is a joint effort of Converse Inc. and >Center to Prevent >Handgun Violence. This collaborative project represents the Center's >first and largest >corporate partnership. The program is designed to raise awareness among >children and >teens, especially urban teens, about the risks and consequences >associated with illegal >possession and use of handguns. > >The program will also, importantly, give children and teens engaged in >the national STAR >program a prominent voice and highlight their solutions to America's >escalating crisis of >handgun violence. > >Prominent athletes serve as spokespersons for the 3-year program: > > Latrell Sprewell > >Converse athletes and STAR youth are featured in a short educational >video stressing >alternatives and solutions to handguns and violence. What a joke. I guess the "alternatives" include choking and punching... For those that are not aware of it, STAR (Straight Talk About Risks) is often billed as HCI/CPHV's counter to eddie Eagle. In fact, it is a rabidly anti-gun political action program that indoctrinates children K-12 to lobby lawmakers and community leaders to pass more gun control laws, etc. About three years ago, NRA-ILA chief researcher Paul Blackman did an excellent analysis of STAR. They may still have a copy available. Converse needs to be told in straight and clear term what y are involved with... and then let the market decide. Joe W > - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:30:21 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: [Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com: Jan. 7 column -- judicial appointments] The latest from Vin... - ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE---- FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED JAN. 7, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Advice and consent In an unusual strongly-worded rebuke, Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist of the U.S. Supreme Court used his annual year-end report on the state of the judiciary to warn that the federal court system stands at risk of being swamped. The action -- or inaction -- of Congress has left the bench with "too few judges and too much work," the chief justice wrote in the 19-page document. Of course, such a problem can be approached in two ways. And to his credit, Justice Rehnquist did not limit himself to merely asking for more money and staff. "I therefore call on Congress to consider legislative proposals that would reduce the jurisdiction of Federal courts," the chief justice wrote. What? A federal officer reminding us that there are and should be limits on the number of matters in which his branch of government meddles ... actually warning that a further expansion of his department by as little as 20 percent could "endanger its distinctive character"? No wonder many a Washington commentator -- long accustomed to presuming that all good things require the midwifery of an ever-larger government -- finds the old Arizona lawyer such a puzzle. Unfortunately, from the context of Mr. Rehnquist's remarks it becomes clear the judge was thinking mostly of limited legislation, carefully crafted to reduce the number of death penalty appeals filed by prisoners, and so forth. This justice, long ago, missed the chance to boldly insist that the federal government get its nose out of a thousand areas which were unregulated by any government as little as 90 years ago. The chief justice, of course, would need to convince only four other jurists of that concept, in order to begin throwing out one federal law -- or agency -- after another. Instead, the major thrust of the justice's remarks targeted the slow rate at which federal judgeship vacancies are being filled. Currently, 82 of the 846 federal judicial offices authorized in Article III -- almost 1 in 10 -- sit vacant. While the Democratic Senate confirmed 101 nominees in 1994, since Republicans gained power that august body has confirmed only 17 judges in 1996, and 36 in 1997. Fully 26 of the 82 current openings have sat vacant for more than 18 months. Part of the blame for this lies with Mr. Clinton, who since his very first months in office has fallen considerably behind the pace of his predecessors in submitting nominations, in the first place. But the more outspoken conservatives in Congress have also made no secret of the fact that they are dragging their feet on approving nominees who they see as irredeemably "liberal." It is the frustration of that partisan trench warfare which doubtless led White House spokesman Joe Lockhart to seize on Justice Rehnquist's remarks last week, exclaiming, "Hear! Hear! Justice Rehnquist," and adding "Our judicial system is more important than playing partisan politics." Really? Isn't it interesting that when conservative members of congress object to the judicial philosophies of Mr. Clinton's nominees, they are playing "partisan politics" ... while Mr. Clinton, of course, uses no partisan benchmark to pre-screen his nominees, merely requiring that they favor Mom and apple pie? In fact, if the White House now considers the filling of those vacancies more important that "partisan politics," a perfect solution presents itself. Article II, Section 2 of the Constitution states the president "shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the senate, shall appoint ... judges of the supreme court," and such other lesser offices as shall be established by law. Everyone understands the meaning of the word "consent." But what is that word "advice" doing in there? Does the president regularly approach the Republican senators and seek their "advice" before naming his nominees? (As I understand the word, "advice" is the kind of thing you can only ask for (start ital)before(end ital) you take action.) Of course not. This president, like so many of his predecessors, seems to have forgotten the mandate that he seek the senate's "advice." So, if "partisan politics" is now anathema at the White House -- if they no longer care whether a nominee favors racial quotas, or might find the Endangered Species Act unconstitutional -- why doesn't Mr. Clinton simply ask Sen. Orrin Hatch and his brethren on the Senate Judiciary Committee to advise him of 82 qualified nominees from (start ital)their(end ital) party? Surely the senators could come up with 82 qualified conservative legal scholars, dedicated to a strict reading of the Constitution as an inflexible mandate for government sharply limited, and personal liberties expansive and innumerable? If the president would then submit those 82 names, upon the prior "advice" of the senate as required -- and without any consideration of the "partisan politics" he now so abhors -- it's a good bet the whole lot would be confirmed by Groundhog Day ... crisis resolved. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains set lightly upon you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen." -- Samuel Adams - ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE---- - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "With reasonable men I will reason; with humane men I will plead; but with tyrants I will give no quarter, nor waste arguments where they will be certainly be lost." -- William Lloyd Garrison - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:27:08 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Sonny Bono -Forwarded Received: from WVC-Message_Server by wp.ci.west-valley.ut.us with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:39:32 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:21:36 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS To: dsagers@ci.west-valley.ut.us Subject: Sonny Bono Poor Sonny Bono --- bad enough to die horribly at the very moment you're having fun with your family, but to die like a common Kennedy? - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:25:45 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: New Pro-Gun Web Site to Visit -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) id XAA10480; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:43:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 23:43:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma010448; Tue Jan 6 23:42:36 1998 Message-Id: <199816192847324370@> Errors-To: listproc@fs1.mainstream.com Reply-To: cyrano@ix.netcom.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: cyrano@ix.netcom.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: New Pro-Gun Web Site to Visit X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Here is the URL for a new pro-freedom and pro-Second Amendment web site you should all visit: www.guntruths.com/ Steve Silver Vice President The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society, Inc. 18034 Ventura Blvd., No. 329 Encino, CA 91316 (818) 734-3066 (The LSAS is a 501(c)(4) Non-Profit Corporation) Visit the LSAS's new and updated Web page at: http://www.mcs.net/~lpyleprn/lsas Send an e-mail request, including your snail mail address, to: LSAS3@aol.com for a complimentary copy of the LSAS's newsletter, The Liberty Pole. Remember: Firearms are worth it if they save just one life. *** Self-defense is not a crime. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:32:44 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: S.L. District Votes for New School, Gun Ban This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------52A269AA1F0E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit http://www.sltrib.com/010798/utah/16225.asp ack ack ack.... Dolores Riley, said [it]...came about after two complaints... ``When I called them in, they were...surprised...Most have been reasonable, but some have chosen to leave the district,'' I wonder, which of the two is "most" and which of the two is "some"? "Besides, if we are going to have these policies for kids, we can't expect them to do it if we're not going to do it too." -Elaine Tzourtzouklis, president of the Salt Lake Teachers Association Never have more sane and rational words been spoken by an adult who can vote, drive, drink, marry, have sex, smoke.... Elaine is my hero. Yet another living breathing proof of the maxim "people are f**king stupid". So...we have these "policies" that we as adults have to abide by because "the Chiiiiiiiiilllllllldreeeeeen" won't respect us for "imposing policies" on them that we ignore. By doing this, we ignore the "policy" that states that local governmental agencies can't make gun policy. But that's ok, 'cos we're ...er...adults...yeah, that's it, we're older, wiser, smarter, better and infinitly more caring than you. And the USSC says we shouldn't sue these mo-rons. Well, I'm starting to agree. Actually, "starting" is the wrong word. I agree completely. I'm sending money to Guv. Mikey, Mayor DD, Senator and Newspaper publisher Steiner, the UEA and any other of these craven mufos that I can think of. The sooner they get re-elected the sooner they get their way. It's time to let the "karma train" pull into the station and park a while. [irrational rant mode - off] [idiot tribune quote mode - on] - --------------52A269AA1F0E Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii; name="16225.asp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="16225.asp" Content-Base: "http://www.sltrib.com/010798/utah/1622 5.asp" S.L. District Votes for New School, Gun Ban
Wednesday, January 7, 1998

S.L. District Votes for New School, Gun Ban


BY HILARY GROUTAGE
THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE
   
   
    A decision to ban guns and build a new elementary school by 1999 dominated a lengthy meeting of the Salt Lake City Board of Education on Tuesday.
    About two dozen residents of the northwest area of the city attended the meeting to urge members to move forward quickly with plans for a new school.
    ``Do not think in terms of election votes and make a decision that will haunt you for the rest of your lives,'' said former board member Tab Uno, who lives in the area. ``Many students have waited and suffered for six years. We have waited long enough.''
    Parent Michael Steed said the schools are so crowded that students in Newman Elementary's resource program have been moved from the copy room to the boiler room to receive the extra instruction they need.
    ``We can no longer allow these children to suffer,'' he said.
    In the end, board members went against Superintendent Darline Robles' recommendation to hold off until fall of 2000 to open the new school and voted instead to adopt a ``fast track'' approach and complete the school one year sooner.
    ``I cannot guarantee the quality of the school in 1999,'' Robles said.
    Also opposing the move was board President Karen Derrick, who said since this would be the first new school built in the district in 26 years, board members should proceed cautiously.
    The comment drew groans from parents in the audience.
    ``I recognize there are some issues and challenges here, but we can do hard things and be successful,'' said board member Cliff Higbee, who represents the northwest part of the city. ``We've got a whole community who recognizes the problem that has been out there for seven or eight years.''
    The motion, which included an amendment not to close another school in order to open the new one, passed four votes to three.
    But the board was unanimous in its support of a measure that requires teachers, volunteers and administrators with a fondness for firearms to leave their guns at home -- even if they have a permit to carry a concealed weapon.
    The policy passed with little discussion, except a boost from Salt Lake City's Assistant Chief of Police Steve Chapman, who said the policy is ``sound.''
    ``There are just too many guns on the street and in the schools,'' Chapman said.
    The policy states that personnel may not carry or possess a firearm, loaded or unloaded, or anything that even looks like a gun on district property, buses or in parking lots. Guns used for demonstration purposes would be exempt from the policy.
    Dolores Riley, assistant superintendent, human resources, said the measure came about after two complaints earlier this school year that district employees were carrying guns. In both cases, she said, colleagues turned the person in.
    ``When I called them in, they were not angry so much as surprised, because they had a permit. Most have been reasonable, but some have chosen to leave the district,'' she said.
    Students already are prohibited from carrying firearms as part of the state's Safe Schools Policy, and the district's legal counsel John Robson said it was within the law to restrict employees' rights to carry guns.
    ``We go through metal detectors in airports and in courthouses. People's right to possess and carry firearms are curbed all the time,'' he said.
    The 1995 Legislature made it easier to obtain permits to conceal and carry firearms. But Gov. Mike Leavitt recently banned state employees from carrying firearms in state buildings or on the job.
    At Highland High School, junior ROTC instructor Gregory Smith said he favors such a policy.
    ``I know we have quite a diverse population here at Highland and I have never been afraid for my life. I don't think I'm ignorant or naive, I just don't think weapons are necessary here,'' he said.
    Elaine Tzourtzouklis, president of the Salt Lake Teachers Association, echoed Smith.
    ``Teachers just don't have any concern [about the policy] at all,'' she said.
    When the policy was first discussed in December, Tzourtzouklis voiced opposition to applying the policy even to teachers' cars parked in school lots.
    ``I can understand why they say that now. Anyone could break into your car,'' she said. ``Besides, if we are going to have these policies for kids, we can't expect them to do it we we're not going to do it too.''
   
   

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