From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #25 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Friday, February 20 1998 Volume 02 : Number 025 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 09:59:01 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Pro-gun Rep. Assaulted -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id WAA19749; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:23:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 22:23:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma019560; Tue Feb 17 22:20:11 1998 Message-Id: <199802172354.QAA28897@mail2.rockymtn.net> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: davisda@rmi.net Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Douglas Davis To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Pro-gun Rep. Assaulted X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list >Return-Path: >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:40:07 -0500 >From: Gun Owners of America >Reply-To: Gun Owners of America >To: goamail@gunowners.org >Subject: Pro-gun Rep. Assaulted > >Vermont Carry Bill Sponsor Assaulted By Anti-gun Legislator > >Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert >8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 >Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 >http://www.gunowners.org > >Multi-state Alert: February 17, 1998 > > >Representative Lisa Lutz, the sponsor of the Vermont-style >Carry Bill for New Mexico (HB 296) must be getting the >attention of the enemy. While sitting in a House >Appropriations Committee meeting on February 11th, >Representative James G. Taylor, the anti-gun water boy for >Speaker Raymond Sanchez, walked up behind her and slapped >her on the back of the head! > >GOA's State and Local Affairs Director Dennis Fusaro, who >witnessed the incident, was shocked. "What is this?" said >Fusaro, "The New Mexico House, or Animal House?" Lutz asked >Fusaro not to act on his first impulse and return the favor >to Taylor. GOA members need not exercise similar restraint >in expressing their (1st Amd) outrage at this kind of >thuggery. > > >When a Vermont-style carry law was introduced in Oregon, its >sponsor, Representative Patti Milne, was verbally abused by >anti-gun House Rep. George Eighmey. > >Oregon GOA members were alerted and flooded Eighmey with >calls, faxes and E-mails. At the second hearing for the bill >Eighmey publicly apologized and credited GOA members for >"showing him the light." > >Taylor's physical abuse calls for no less of a response. >Let's show Taylor the same light Oregon members showed >Eighmey. Contact Taylor and Speaker Sanchez and tell them >what you think of Taylor's outrageous behavior. > >The numbers for Rep. Taylor are: >(505) 986-4248. (Legislature) >(505) 764-6850 (Buisiness) >(505) 877-4986 (Home) > >The numbers for Speaker Sanchez are: >(505) 986-4782 (Legislature) >(505) 247-4321 (Business) >(505) 898-6644 (Home) > >Both can be faxed at (505) 986-4755 > >While you're at it, Contact Representative Lutz and let her >know what a great job she's doing. Representative Lutz can be >reached at: (505) 986-4233. Tell the Republican Leadership the >same thing: (505) 986-4758/4757. > >You can and should call even if you don't live in New Mexico. >New Mexico's Speaker needs to know the word is spreading to >other states about the kind of nonsense he is letting happen. >General Information Line is (505) 986-4751. > >Any ?s Call GOA >Guns Save Lives > >*********************************************************** >Are you receiving this as a cross-post? To be certain of >getting up-to-the-minute information, please consider >joining the GOA E-mail Alert Network directly. The service >is free, your address remains confidential, and the volume >is quite low: five messages a week would be a busy week >indeed. To subscribe, simply send a message (or forward >this notice) to goamail@gunowners.org and include your >state of residence in either the subject line or the body. ****************** Firearms, self-defense, and other information, with LINKS are available at: http://shell.rmi.net/~davisda Latest additions are found in the group NEW with GOA and other alerts under the heading ALERTS. For those without browser capabilities, send [request index.txt] to davisda@rmi.net and an index of the files at this site will be e-mailed to you. Then send [request ] and the requested file will be sent as a message. Various shareware programs are archived at: ftp://shell.rmi.net/pub2/davisda To receive the contents of the FTP site, send [request index.ftp] to davisda@rmi.net ******************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:22:04 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: Careful when responding to "police" at door [Image] [Image] [Image] Millcreek man shot in leg during break-in attempt [Image] [Image] [Image] Last updated 02/17/1998, 11:50 a.m. MT MILLCREEK — A man was shot in the leg while three masked assailants tried to break into his house Monday night. Paramedics transported the man to Columbia-St. Mark's Hospital, where he was in good condition, said Salt Lake County sheriff's deputy Peggy Faulkner. His name was not released Monday night. The assailants knocked on the front door of the house, 1128 E. Elgin Ave. (3000 South), about 10:30 p.m. When no one answered the door, the assailants pounded on the back door. "They told the residents they were deputies from the sheriff's department," Faulkner said. The homeowners thought it was some friends playing a joke. Two men live in the house, Faulkner said. The residents opened the door and quickly closed it when they saw one man pointing a shotgun at them. The gunman took one shot through the door after it slammed shut, hitting one of the residents in the leg. No other shots were fired, Faulkner said. The other resident called 911, Faulkner said. The perpetrators ran down the street and sped off in a car after the homeowner told them police were on the way. Investigators weren't sure if the assailants picked the house at random, Faulkner said. The assailants were still at large Tuesday. [Image] [Image] Return to front page [Image] - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by rule of construction be conceived to give the Congress the power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both." -- William Rawle, 1825; considered academically to be an expert commentator on the Constitution. He was offered the position of the first Attorney General of the United States, by President Washington. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:24:20 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: 1984? Several troubling items in this one... Wonder if frequent trips to the range with scary looking guns qualifies one for a police checkup... [Image] [Image] [Image] Wednesday, February 18, 1998 [Image] [Image] Rolly & Wells: 1984 Revisited? By Paul Rolly and JoAnn Jacobsen-Wells 1984 REVISITED? The Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office ran an ad in The Salt Lake Tribune Sunday with the title ``Big Crime Produces Big Wealth.'' The ad listed a hot line residents may call anonymously about their neighbors if they notice strange visitors at unusual hours, suspicious stories about sources of income or jobs, lavish spending habits and working unusual hours. Sheriff's Sgt. Craig Watson said honest residents need not worry about unwarranted investigations. Watson, a narcotics investigator, said the department is going after the ``top of the food chain'' of drug traffickers, who usually pose as respectable, wealthy individuals. If a check shows the subject has a legitimate job, the investigation will end. But the ad ruffled some feathers, even among law enforcement, possibly because it came on the heels of an incident earlier this month when the Sheriff's Office checked license plates of cars parked at the South Jordan Library. Former Deputy Scott Miller, who plans to run for election against Sheriff Aaron Kennard, was holding a political meeting there. Among those checked: Two Granite School District undercover officers and a State Tax Commission investigator. Undersheriff Jim Bell, who asked for the investigation to find out who belonged to the license plates, said he made the inquiry because of an anonymous letter complaining of reckless driving in the area. But the timing of his inquiry means he would have had to receive that anonymous letter less than 24 hours from when the cars were in the area. BITE OUT OF CRIME Friday night, House Minority Leader Dave Jones and his wife, Cindy, were at Crossroads Plaza in Salt Lake City when they spotted a man attacking a woman near the basement rest-rooms. Jones, D-Salt Lake City, tackled the suspect, who was then arrested by his wife, a state correctional officer with the Domestic Violence Unit. CHECK THE FILE? William Flandro reported Jan. 10 to the West Valley City police that his 1989 Ford Probe was stolen. The car was placed on a national register of missing vehicles. Two days later, the Probe was found abandoned in the middle of the road in Spanish Fork Canyon by Utah Department of Motor Vehicles crews. UHP had it towed to an impound lot in Spanish Fork. No one notified Flandro or West Valley City detectives until Thursday, when Flandro received a letter from UHP stating his ``unclaimed vehicle'' had been in impound for a month and he owed $560. TRUCK DRIVERS BEWARE But diligent law enforcement may be seen in areas that attract federal dollars. We wrote last week about alleged quotas for DUIs being required of Utah Highway Patrol troopers, despite an official denial that quotas exist. There seems to be another area where quotas are required of UHP troopers. An Aug. 24, 1997, memo to UHP sergeants in the Salt Lake County district notes: ``The Federal Highway Administration has offered $81,000 to the Utah Highway Patrol for CDL [Commercial Driver's License] enforcement. Six dollars per CDL citation or warning will be given to the UHP. [Salt Lake County] has been tasked with 1,125 CDL citations or warnings. The following is a breakdown of our current stats on CDLs: Total [CDL tickets or warnings] as of Aug. 15 -- 490. Number needed by Sept. 30 -- 635. Number needed per trooper -- 15.'' The memo did not address the question: What if truck drivers don't commit 635 offenses in the alloted time? [Image] [Wednesday Navigation Bar] [Image] [Image] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- © Copyright 1998, The Salt Lake Tribune All material found on Utah OnLine is copyrighted The Salt Lake Tribune and associated news services. No material may be reproduced or reused without explicit permission from The Salt Lake Tribune. -------------------------------------------------- Contact The Salt Lake Tribune or Utah OnLine by clicking here. - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by rule of construction be conceived to give the Congress the power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both." -- William Rawle, 1825; considered academically to be an expert commentator on the Constitution. He was offered the position of the first Attorney General of the United States, by President Washington. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 10:26:19 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: Sarah's Letter From today's DesNews... Great letter Sarah. [Image] [Image] [Image] READERS' FORUM [Image] Firearms bill goes too far [Image] [Image] [Image] Last updated 02/18/1998, 10:02 a.m. MT Your editorial (Feb. 8) urging support for Senate President Lane Beattie's SB57 is both irresponsible and reprehensible. Beattie's bill would not, as you falsely inform your readers, "allow church leaders, private property owners and public school officials to ban concealed weapon permit holders from bringing firearms into their buildings." It would absolutely prohibit the possession of firearms on these premises, and the churches and private property owners would have no discretion whatsoever. Prohibition is not the same thing as choice. This mistake is quite understandable since you both wrote and published your editorial days before the actual text of the legislation was available. While you are entitled to your opinions, I wish you would have the journalistic integrity to base your opinions on facts and not rumors. Both Utah and the LDS Church have long been known for their religious tolerance and adherence to the principle of separation of church and state. This is a worthy tradition, which should be held sacred. Beattie's bill would set a heinous precedent for intrusion of the state into church matters. If the state may prohibit firearms from the premises of a house of worship regardless of the wishes of the religion or clergy involved, all religious freedom is endangered. If the state may force a church to ban guns, what is to stop it from banning sacramental wine or requiring that Muslims wear shoes during prayer? What is to stop it from mandating birth control or equal religious standing for homosexuals? If a house of worship wishes to ban guns or even require guns, let it do so on its own authority. Religious practices are not the domain of the state. All Utahns who support religious freedom should vigorously oppose SB57. Sarah Thompson Sandy [Image] [Image] Return to front page [Image] - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by rule of construction be conceived to give the Congress the power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both." -- William Rawle, 1825; considered academically to be an expert commentator on the Constitution. He was offered the position of the first Attorney General of the United States, by President Washington. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:13:29 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: Need Chris Kierst's email Chris, need to email you privately but have misplaced your address. Please respond to . Thanks. - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by rule of construction be conceived to give the Congress the power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both." -- William Rawle, 1825; considered academically to be an expert commentator on the Constitution. He was offered the position of the first Attorney General of the United States, by President Washington. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:35:19 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: Re: 1984? Charles Hardy wrote: > > Several troubling items in this one... > > Wonder if frequent trips to the range with scary looking guns qualifies > one for a police checkup... > > [Image] > [Image] [Image] Wednesday, February 18, 1998 [Image] [Image] > > Rolly & Wells: 1984 Revisited? > > By Paul Rolly and JoAnn > Jacobsen-Wells > > 1984 REVISITED? > The Salt Lake County Sheriff's Office ran an ad in The Salt Lake > Tribune Sunday with the title ``Big Crime Produces Big Wealth.'' [snip] > Undersheriff Jim Bell, who asked for the investigation to find > out who belonged to the license plates, said he made the inquiry > because of an anonymous letter complaining of reckless driving in the > area. Good ol' Bell...this is the same (sixties minutia) who said he'd make you eat dirt then ask questions if he saw a suspicious bulge in yer drawers. Is anyone surprised that he'd be involved in another form of "big bro" activity? "By their fruits they shall be known" <-Someone who knows better, please correct this? - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:37:34 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: Re: 1984? On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Will Thompson posted: >> Undersheriff Jim Bell, who asked for the investigation to find >> out who belonged to the license plates, said he made the inquiry >> because of an anonymous letter complaining of reckless driving in the >> area. > >Good ol' Bell...this is the same (sixties minutia) who said he'd >make you eat dirt then ask questions if he saw a suspicious bulge >in yer drawers. Is anyone surprised that he'd be involved in >another form of "big bro" activity? "By their fruits they >shall be known" <-Someone who knows better, please correct this? > OK, correction. That was officer D.B. Bell of the SLC PD. - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "The prohibition is general. No clause in the Constitution could by rule of construction be conceived to give the Congress the power to disarm the people. Such a flagitious attempt could only be made under some general pretense by a state legislature. But if in blind pursuit of inordinate power, either should attempt it, this amendment may be appealed to as a restraint on both." -- William Rawle, 1825; considered academically to be an expert commentator on the Constitution. He was offered the position of the first Attorney General of the United States, by President Washington. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:05:31 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: Re: 1984? Charles Hardy wrote: > > On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Will Thompson posted: > > >> Undersheriff Jim Bell, who asked for the investigation to find > >> out who belonged to the license plates, said he made the inquiry > >> because of an anonymous letter complaining of reckless driving in the > >> area. > > > >Good ol' Bell...this is the same (sixties minutia) who said he'd > >make you eat dirt then ask questions if he saw a suspicious bulge > >in yer drawers. Is anyone surprised that he'd be involved in > >another form of "big bro" activity? "By their fruits they > >shall be known" <-Someone who knows better, please correct this? > > > > OK, correction. That was officer D.B. Bell of the SLC PD. > er... Yup apologies to Undersheriff Bell for the mistaken ID. > -- > - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:05:42 -0700 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Re: HB 328 At 09:45 AM 2/18/98 -0700, you wrote: > >It appears from the State legislature home page that the house passed >HB 328, these people must be eating prunes, they'll pass anything! > >Contact your Senator. > The bill is now in Senate Judiciary. Members are: Craig Taylor, Chair Lane Beattie David Buhler Mike Dmitrich Lyle Hillyard Robert Steiner Messages may be left for Senators at 538-1035, or 800-953-8824. Democrat fax: 801-538-1449 Republican fax: 801-538-1414 Please save these names and numbers because the same committee will be hearing SB 57, Lane Beattie's gun control bill. However, please DO NOT include both issues in the same message, since HB 328 is really a non-partisan issue, while gun control arouses strong feelings in this committee. Sarah Thompson (for myself only) - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 16:53:30 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: [jimdex@inconnect.com: SB57 Press Release] From the Utah-Libertarian Party concerning SB57. - ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE---- Government Wants To Make Criminals of Law-Abiding Citizens SALT LAKE CITY, UT -- If you want to reduce crime, let more people carry more concealed weapons too more places, the Libertarian Party of Utah said today, but if you want to turn law-abiding citizens into criminals just pass Senate Bill 57, sponsored by Lane Beattie. "Mindless gun control is one of the best examples of government enacting laws that force citizens to either to put themselves in danger or become lawbreakers," proclaimed Jim Dexter, the party's state chair. Libertarians oppose SB57 because it would make the licensed possession of a concealed weapon illegal in houses of worship, schools, and private residences. "New laws are entirely unnecessary," said Dexter, pointing out that houses of worship and homeowners already have the right to ban or prohibit concealed weapons from entering their property. "The LDS Church has correctly stated that concealed weapons in church are 'inappropriate'," Dexter noted, "and they could easily disfellowship or excommunicate a violator of their internal policy if they felt it was a real problem." "Perhaps the church authorities have forgotten the June 11, 1995 incident in a West Valley City wardhouse when a wife was kidnapped at gun point by her estranged husband. The unarmed congregation could do nothing to stop him." Dexter said. "The inability to respond in kind also applies to the two recent cases in our Utah government schools where children brought stolen guns to school knowing no adult would be able to stop them because of misguided school policy. And let's not forget the recent rash of armed robberies on the U of U campus." "The effect of these bills would be to create areas where only crimnals would be safe. People who live in high crime neighborhoods would be forced to choose between meeting their spiritual needs and protecting their lives. Co- eds would not be safe from rape on campus and teachers would not be safe in classrooms," said Dexter. Libertarians also believe forcing churches to take a stand on concealed carry is unconstitutional, as a separation of church and state should allow houses of worship to set their own policies, free from government coercion. Dexter asks, "What good is a concealed carry permit if you are not allowed to carry or turned into a criminal for carrying? Trying to fix a law that's not broken is silly. Legislation like this only serves to turn otherwise law- abiding citizens into criminals." Dexter also said there is absolutely no proof that Utah's concealed carry permit holders have posed the slightest risk to anyone's health, safety or the public good under current law. Utah's violent crime rate has dropped an average 8%, despite population increases, since Utah's concealed carry law went into effect. This follows the pattern in other states that have permitted their law-abiding citizens the right of armed self-defense, according to recent studies from Professors Lott and Mustard of the University of Chicago and from the Cato Institute. Dexter said, "Restricting our right to carry concealed weapons and the places we may carry them, is the equivalent of politicians painting targets on our backs. Denying terrified Utahns the right to carry a concealed weapon into well-publicized 'gun-free zones' is like sentencing innocent people to death because they can't legally defend themselves. When will our legislators learn that criminals don't obey any laws . . . especially gun laws." Speaking of not obeying laws, the Libertarian Party of Utah urges the legislature and law enforcement to require the governor and UofU authorities to immediately cease their resistance to the concealed carry laws and restore the basic right of self-defense to all government workers, teachers and adult students. "If the chancellor or the governor have to face criminal charges, so be it. We are a nation of laws, not subject to the personal likes and dislikes of politicians and/or academicians," said Dexter. - ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE---- - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "The American Revolution was a beginning, not a consummation." -- Woodrow Wilson, 28th President of the United States (1856-1924). - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 20:12:40 -0700 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: URGENT ALERT! STOP SB 57!! ************PLEASE CROSSPOST and DISTRIBUTE!!************** Lane Beattie's SB 57, Concealed Firearms Amendments, has now been sent to the Senate Judiciary Committee. It is scheduled to be heard on Friday Feb. 20, at 8 AM, in Room 403 at the State Capitol. This bill MUST be stopped! IMMEDIATE ACTION IS NECESSARY! 1) PLEASE PLAN ON ATTENDING THE COMMITTEE HEARING! I know most of you have to work, but the bill is first on the agenda, so you can probably show up before work. 2) PLEASE CONTACT MEMBERS OF THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE AND ASK THEM TO OPPOSE SB 57 and OPPOSE ANY AMENDMENTS. Members of the committee are: Sen. Craig Taylor - R, Chair, O-544-5909 No home number. No personal fax. Email: ctaylor@le.state.ut.us Sen. Lane Beattie - R, Sponsor of the bill and Senate President, H-292-7406 O-298-7000 No personal fax. No email. Sen. David Buhler - R, H-466-7140 O-355-5009 FAX-355-4008 Email: dbuhler@le.state.ut.us Sen. Mike Dmitrich - D, H-637-0426 O-637-2875 No personal fax Email: mdmitric@le.state.ut.us Sen. Lyle Hillyard - R, Assistant Majority Whip, H-753-0043 O-752-2610, No personal fax. Email: lhillyar@le.state.ut.us Sen. Robert Steiner - D H-596-1213 O-328-8831 No personal fax Email: rsteiner@le.state.ut.us Note: All Senators can be reached at the Capitol at 801-538-1035 or 800-953-8824. Faxes for Republicans can be sent to: 801-538-1414 Faxes for Democrats can be sent to: 801-538-1449 3) PLEASE CONTACT YOUR OWN STATE SENATOR AND LET HIM/HER KNOW THAT YOU OPPOSE THIS BILL, AND WOULD LIKE IT DEFEATED, NOT AMENDED. If you don't know who your Senator is, call 468-3427. (They can also tell you who your Representative is.) If you go to http://www.senate.le.state.ut.us/ you can look under "District Map" to locate your Senator and under "Roster" to find contact information. Some of the Senators have e-mail, but not all of them check it regularly. You can leave a message for any Senator at 801-538-1035, or 800-953-8824. You can fax Democratic Senators at 801-538-1449, and Republican Senators at 801-538-1414. 4) PLEASE FORWARD OR OTHERWISE DISTRIBUTE THIS MESSAGE TO EVERYONE WHO VALUES FIREARMS RIGHTS OR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN UTAH. Thank you for your support. This is the BIG ONE, so we need to work together to protect our rights! Following is USSC's analysis of the bill, as previously posted. HELP DEFEAT SB 57!!! SB 57, Concealed Firearms Amendments, introduced by Senate President Lane Beattie is a bad bill for many reasons: First of all, contrary to the title of the bill, it is NOT only about concealed weapons. The bill refers to "dangerous weapons". This includes concealed pistols, of course, but also includes knives, long guns, and virtually anything else that can cause bodily injury. 1. It prohibits firearms (and dangerous weapons) on church (or other house of worship) property, regardless of the wishes of that particular church. a) This sets a dangerous precedent of allowing the State to dictate to a church or religion what it is or is not allowed to do. It is not the business of the state to dictate religious practices. b) The "defense to prosecution" clause is essentially meaningless. It provides that the police may enter a church, haul you out in handcuffs, (shoot you if you resist or if they're particularly worried about your gun), arrest you, book you, and humiliate you - EVEN IF YOU HAVE THE PERMISSION OF THE CHURCH. Assuming you survive the process, you then have to hire and pay defense counsel, and only at your trial may you present your "defense" that you had "permission". And then you still have to go back to court to try to get your seized weapon returned and your permit reinstated. c) The bill mandates that each church have a policy on firearms. If a church wishes to allow, or even encourage, members to carry, it must maintain a database of who carries, and who has permission to do so, and must issue statements of permission. Thus the state is forcing churches to do additional work and act as _de facto_ police. d) This bill disproportionately affects those people who live in high crime neighborhoods, especially those who must walk to services, and may actually deter people from attending church. 2.The bill mandates that a no one may carry a firearm (or dangerous weapon) into a private residence, again regardless of the wishes of the owner. It is not the business of the state to tell a homeowner what he may do in his own home! (There isn't even an exclusion for the homeowner!) a) The same "defense to prosecution" problem exists. b) This is a gross violation of the privacy of firearms owners. The essence of concealed carry is CONCEALED. If you have to tell everyone you know that you're carrying, any benefit of concealment disappears. If criminals know you are carrying (especially for women who carry in purses), you become an excellent target for an ambush. In addition, since firearms owners often collect firearms, if criminals know you are carrying, they may target your house for a burglary. And remember that YOU may be held liable for what's done with your stolen firearm! c) This bill presumes that law abiding gun owners with CCW's are so dangerous that they must announce their presence before entering a private residence. Not even convicted felons or sex offenders are required to do this. Are gun owners lower than child molesters or more dangerous than convicted rapists and murderers? 3. This bill prohibits firearms (and dangerous weapons) from the premises of schools. a) By declaring schools to be off-limits to responsible gun owners, schools are advertising that they are easy and safe targets for criminals who want to murder children, or even for student gang-bangers. For example, in Pearl, MI, the student who gunned down several of his fellow students was stopped only by a teacher who kept a firearm in his car. b) By prohibiting firearms teachers are also identified as easy targets. This is especially true for female teachers and those teachers who work with "troubled" youth. Their jobs are hard enough and there is no reason to deny them the right to self-defense. c) Schools are public property, owned by the people, and thus may not infringe the rights of the public; they do not have private property rights. d) Private schools are also forced to ban guns which IS a violation of their private property rights. e) School is defined vaguely enough that it could conceivably be construed to include everything from universities to home schools. THIS BILL MUST BE STOPPED! Sarah Thompson To subscribe to the USSC mail list, send a message to: USSC@therighter.com In the SUBJECT of the message put: SUBSCRIBE USSC - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 18:26:43 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: [SB57 Contact Info] I know this has gone out already, but here it is again in case you want to try to phone, fax, or email any of the Senators on the Judiciary Committee tonight or first thing Firday (Feb 20) morning before they discuss SB57. The hearing is scheduled for 8:00 am, RM 403, and is first on the agenda. Let's pack the room. Contact info below: Robert C. Steiner (D) 80 North Wolcott Salt Lake City, Utah 84103-4477 H-596-1213 O-328-883 rsteiner@le.state.ut.us David L. Buhler (R) 1436 South Yuma Street Salt Lake City, Utah 84108 H-466-7140 O-355-5009 FAX-355-4008 dbuhler@le.state.ut.us Craig L. Taylor (R) (chair) 312 Oak Lane Kaysville, Utah 84037 O-544-5909 ctaylor@le.state.ut.us Lane Beattie (R) (sponsor and senate pres) 1313 North 1100 West West Bountiful, Utah 84087 H-292-7406 O-298-7000 email not listed but lbeattie@le.state.ut.us may reach him. Lyle W. Hillyard (R) (Assistant Majority Whip) 175 East First North Logan, Utah 84321 H-753-0043 O-752-2610 lhillyar@le.state.ut.us Mike Dmitrich (D) HC 65, Box 30 Altamont, Utah 84001-9703 H-454-3494 mdmitric@le.state.ut.us - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "He that violates his oath profanes the Divinity of faith itself." -- Cicero (found on LA City Hall) - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Feb 98 18:50:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: UofU Parking Spat This is the second article in the U POLICE REPORT in The Daily Utah Chronicle, Friday, 13.February 1998 p3: Feb. 11 Pigeonhole Principle Provokes Parkers' Passion [headline written by Kevin Bergeson] - -- As on most mornings in the business parking lot, several cars were competing for a select few open spots. Two individuals came across the same open space; one had been waiting "in line," and the other had stumbled across it by chance. When the two simultaneously atttempted to occupy the spot, tempers flared and gestures were exchanged. After a heated exchange, the one who had been waiting succeeded in claiming the spot. Feeling threatened by the encounter, however, he wrote down the other car's license plate number. At this time, according to driver #1, the other driver got out of his car and yelled, "Don't mess with me or I'll put a bullet in your head." Driver #1 then found an officer and made a report. The officer remained by the vehicle, waiting for the suspect to return. The officer did a quick background check on the car and its owner, and discovered the owner had a concealed weapons permit. When the suspect returned, the officer confronted him about the alleged verbal assault. The man admitted he mentioning [sic] a bullet, but couldn't remember the context. He was given a misdemeanor citation for making threats. [end] The names of the writer, drivers and officer are not given. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:55:38 -0700 From: "S. Thompson" Subject: VICTORY ALERT!! SB 57 is DEAD! Apologies for this late message. I just got home from my first evening out in as long as I can remember. :) What a GREAT surprise! You've probably already heard by now, but just in case...... SB 57, Sen. Lane Beattie's draconian gun control bill is now DEAD! It will NOT be heard in committee Friday, or any other day this session, and you do not need to attend the committee meeting. In addition, the alternate bill discussed in a previous post is no longer necessary and will not be further pursued. YOU, all of you, deserve the credit for helping to preserve our gun rights. It was YOUR persistence and dedication, YOUR phone calls, faxes, e-mails, and letters that finally persuaded Sen Beattie to withdraw the bill in the face of overwhelming public opposition. Working together, WE were able to convince our legislators that the law abiding gun owners of Utah will not allow their rights to be infringed. No organization, and no lobbyist, can succeed without the support of its members and friends, and I think I can safely speak for the rest of the Board when I offer my heartfelt thanks to all of you. Thanks also to our excellent lobbyist, Rob Bishop and to NRA liaison, Brian Judy. More thanks to: The Utah Gun Rights Association The Libertarian Party of Utah Craig Fields and the folks at Gunowners of America for getting an alert out in record time. and of course my fellow Board members and Advisory Board members. While I hate to be a party pooper, I do need to add that HB 343, the Range Protection Bill, was killed by the House Judiciary Committee, on a 4-4 vote. I don't yet have a vote report, but will get one to you as soon as I have the information. HAVE A VERY HAPPY WEEKEND!!!! THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!! Sarah Thompson To subscribe to the USSC mail list, send a message to: USSC@therighter.com In the SUBJECT of the message put: SUBSCRIBE USSC - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Feb 1998 11:34:34 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: NRA fires telemarketer -Forwarded Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA19833; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 10:09:41 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA23578; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:13:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 1998 12:13:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma023384; Thu Feb 19 12:08:42 1998 Message-Id: <01ITRHMOT0B68ZFO1B@GNV.IFAS.UFL.EDU> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: MIKEY@gnv.ifas.ufl.edu Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Mikey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: NRA fires telemarketer X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Forwarded by Michael P. Baker Member, NRA BOD Micanopy, FL The following letter from Tanya K. Metaksa is in response to querys about NRA's position on semi-auto firearms raised by recent erroneous statements made by a contracted telephone solicitor. Tanya K. Metaksa, Executive Director NRA Institute for Legislative Action Dear NRA Member: Recently, there has been a rumor circulating about NRA-ILA's position on the Clinton gun and magazine ban. The rapid and widespread reach of this erroneous information is clear evidence of the need to confirm, with a reliable source, any questionable information obtained via the Internet. I thank you for taking the time to do just that by contacting my office. The basis for this rumor was a conversation between one particular individual and a representative from a telemarketing firm contracted by NRA for membership recruitment. Unfortunately, in his zeal to sign up a new member, the telemarketer made several false statements to this particular individual regarding our position on the Clinton gun and magazine ban. The telemarketing firm in question has been suspended pending further review of their procedures. Furthermore, the telemarketer involved in this incident has been removed from our account. Let me assure you that NRA-ILA opposes the Clinton gun and magazine ban and is committed to its full repeal. We opposed this ban when it was first introduced as stand-alone legislation; we opposed it being attached to the rest of the 1994 Clinton crime bill; and we are still opposed to the ban now that it is law. Our efforts to defeat the ban in Congress are well-documented. During the summer of 1994, NRA-ILA led the charge against this ill-conceived legislation. We left no stone unturned, no option unused in our effort to kill this bill. When it became clear that despite our best efforts, we did not have the votes to block its passage, we orchestrated the legislative maneuver that stalled its passage for two weeks. Unfortunately, with the vast resources of the United States Treasury at his disposal, President Clinton was finally able to persuade enough lawmakers to drop their opposition to his crime bill and force it through Congress. We did not give up, however. That fall, we poured millions of dollars into campaigns across the nation to defeat anti-gun politicians and elect the most pro-gun Congress in decades. President Clinton himself "blamed" NRA for his party's decisive defeat in the 1994 elections, and acknowledged during his State of the Union address in January the politically devastating impact of his anti-gun policies. In 1996, on a bi-partisan vote, the House of Representatives passed overwhelmingly a full repeal of the Clinton gun and magazine ban. Passage of this repeal was achieved only after months of hard work by NRA-ILA to bring this legislation to the floor. Unfortunately, the Senate took no action on the repeal. While we relentlessly exploited every legislative remedy at our disposal, we simultaneously pursued this matter in the courts. In 1995, NRA filed suit in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan challenging the law. When that suit was dismissed, NRA appealed to the Sixth U.S. Circuit Court. Last November, that court reinstated the challenge to the federal gun ban, and as I write to you today, the staff of NRA's Office of General Counsel is busy preparing their arguments in this case. Clearly, an organization that supported the Clinton gun and magazine ban would never go to such lengths to abolish it. In fact, NRA has invested more money and time in the effort to scrap the Clinton gun and magazine ban than any other organization in the United States. And I would remind you that our battle against gun bans is by no means limited to the Federal level. Right now, in California, NRA is fighting a semi-automatic ban that threatens to put law-abiding gun owners like you and me in jail. I hope this information puts to rest any concerns you may have had about this matter. Please do not hesitate to contact us again if you ever have any questions about this or any other NRA-ILA policy. Sincerely, Tanya K. Metaksa, Executive Director NRA Institute for Legislative Action I hope that this helps to put this issue to rest, so that we can all get back to focusing on our primary concerns--defending the Second Amendment. Sincerely, Anthony Roulette - ------------------------------------- NRA-ILA Grassroots Division E-mail: groots@nra.org National Rifle Association Institute for Legislative Action 11250 Waples Mill Road Fairfax, Virginia 22030 (800) 392-8683 http://www.nra.org - ------------------------------------- - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #25 **********************************