From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #61 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Tuesday, May 26 1998 Volume 02 : Number 061 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 18:14:44 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: GSL> DIPR Website -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id BAA18423; Thu, 21 May 1998 01:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 01:03:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma018364; Thu May 21 01:03:16 1998 Message-Id: <199805210300.VAA20118@mail2.rockymtn.net> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: davisda@rmi.net Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Douglas Davis To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: GSL> DIPR Website X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list >Return-Path: >Delivered-To: gsl@majordomo.pobox.com >Date: Wed, 20 May 1998 20:19:52 -0400 >From: "Val W. Finnell, MD" >Organization: NVCDL >To: gsl@listbox.com >Subject: GSL> DIPR Website >Sender: owner-gsl@listbox.com >Reply-To: gsl@listbox.com > >----------------------------------------- http://GunsSaveLives.com >Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research, Inc. (DIPR) now has a WWW >site. This will be one-stop shopping for scholarly refutations of the >medical propaganda and other junk science dealing with gun-control. > >The site is brand new and will be updated almost on a daily basis. >Please be patient. Educate yourself by visiting: > >http://www.dipr.org > > >-------------------------- >GunsSaveLives Internet Discussion List > >This list is governed by an acceptable use >policy: http://www.wizard.net/~kc/policy.html >or available upon request. > >To unsubscribe send a message to >majordomo@listbox.com > >with the following line in the body: > >unsubscribe gsl > >GUNSSAVELIVES (GSL) IS A PRIVATE UNMODERATED LIST. >THE OWNER TAKES NO RESPONSIBILTY FOR CONTENT. ALL >RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ****************** Firearms, self-defense, and other information, with LINKS are available at: http://shell.rmi.net/~davisda Latest additions are found in the group NEW with GOA and other alerts under the heading ALERTS. For those without browser capabilities, send [request index.txt] to davisda@rmi.net and an index of the files at this site will be e-mailed to you. Then send [request ] and the requested file will be sent as a message. Various shareware programs are archived at: ftp://shell.rmi.net/pub2/davisda To receive the contents of the FTP site, send [request index.ftp] to davisda@rmi.net ******************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:46:45 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Memorial Day. Sgt.Lionel Keating, N.O.P.D, R.I.P. (fwd) -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id KAA19834; Tue, 26 May 1998 10:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:36:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma019617; Tue May 26 10:33:50 1998 Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: pwatson@utdallas.edu Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: pwatson@utdallas.edu To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Memorial Day. Sgt.Lionel Keating, N.O.P.D, R.I.P. (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:08:26 -0600 From: Joe Horn Reply-To: texas-gun-owners@Mailing-List.net Subject: Memorial Day. Sgt.Lionel Keating, N.O.P.D, R.I.P. Posted to texas-gun-owners by Joe Horn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lionel Keating was a brother to me for the past 20 years. He was a Sgt. from the New Orleans Police Department and for those that remember the murderous rampage a rooftop sniper started at the Howard Johnson's Hotel in downtown New Orleans decades ago, Lionel was the assault team member that ended that spree of violence in personal confrontation with the sniper. He died last week, after a prolonged and valiant battle against cancer. He was 52. He was a good husband, a good father, and raised two fine children, one of them, Jeff, replaces his dad on the NOPD. He had retired from N.O. as a Sgt., and, in asecond career, was a Sheriff's Sgt. at St. Bernard Parish Sheriff's office. He fought for two tours in Vietnam as a River Rat, (Pibber or PBR), came back and worked the streets, worked hard to advance and provide everything for his family. We was devoted to the Constitution and the Bill of rights and viewed an armed populace as backup and safety net for the Cosntitutioin's protection. He was a patient and fair policeman and never imposed his expectations of himself upon others. He frequently gave money out of his pocket to those on the skid. He saw all people as equal, some more fortunate than others, and respected their human dignity.. Always said that he thought it was better to be lucky than smart. He was the best back-up anyone in this job is ever likely to have, either in a fight or against the brass for his officers. He never gave anyone the extra thump after the fight was over. His pain is over, suffering ended, and my grief is for the loss of such a good man when such men are so sorely needed and for his grandchildren who will be deprived of his goodness and wisdom. Some will understand when I say he died well. "So I'll meet 'im later on At the place where he has gone.... Where it's always double drill and no canteen. 'E'll be squatting on the coals Giving drink to poor damned souls, an' I'll get a swig in Hell from.....my brother, Lionel Keating. plagerized from R. Kipling by me, J Horn, Sgt., L.A. Sheriff's Dept., Ret. RVN 1963/64 1966/68 To my brothers and sisters on the Wall: Every day of my life is dedicated to the life you were cheated of. To my Father, killed on the Franklin in 1945: I'm glad you cannot see how quickly we've squandered and damn near lost our freedoms, and if you can see what's taken place, I apologize, I've done my best and keep at it on a daily basis, but we are few now. - -- For help with Majordomo commands, send a message to majordomo@mailing-list.net with the word help in the message body. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 10:51:46 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: RNC / New York Times -Forwarded Received: from web185c.bbnplanet.com (web185c.bbnplanet.com [207.121.186.185]) by web185c.bbnplanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08622; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:15:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BRONZE.RNC.ORG by BRONZE.RNC.ORG (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8b) with spool id 15472 for PRESSLIST@BRONZE.RNC.ORG; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:11:36 -0700 Received: from web185c.bbnplanet.com (web185c.bbnplanet.com [207.121.186.185]) by web185c.bbnplanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA08394 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 16:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Approved-By: shenry2@IX.NETCOM.COM Received: from dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com [206.214.98.7]) by web185c.bbnplanet.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA08331 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 15:56:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from smap@localhost) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id OAA17822 for ; Mon, 18 May 1998 14:52:46 -0500 (CDT) Received: from vna-va10-40.ix.netcom.com(207.223.177.168) by dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) id rma017802; Mon May 18 14:52:17 1998 X-Sender: shenry2@ix.netcom.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Message-ID: <2.2.32.19980518195449.0069f0fc@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 15:54:49 -0400 Reply-To: Sean Henry Sender: RNC Press List From: Sean Henry Subject: RNC / New York Times To: Multiple recipients of list PRESSLIST This is a very important summary of how the Clinton Administration has sold US security interests -- and why. Please forward it to your own lists. Mike Collins RNC Press Secretary (202) 863-8550 (Voice) (202) 863-8773 (Fax) (800) 317-4967 (Pager) E-Mail: mcollins@rnchq.org Visit Our Web Site: http://www.rnc.org ESSAY / By WILLIAM SAFIRE U.S. Security for Sale WASHINGTON -- A President hungry for money to finance his re-election overruled the Pentagon; he sold to a Chinese Military Intelligence front the technology that defense experts argued would give Beijing the capacity to blind our spy satellites and launch a sneak attack. How soon we have forgotten Pearl Harbor. October 1996 must have been some tense month for Democratic fund-raisers. The New York Times, Wall Street Journal and Los Angeles Times had begun to expose "the Asian connection" of John Huang and Indonesia's Riady family to the Clinton campaign. The fix was already in to sell the satellite technology to China. Clinton had switched the licensing over to Ron Brown's anything-goes Commerce Department. Johnny Chung had paid up. Commerce's Huang had delivered money big time (though one of his illegal foreign sources had already been spotted). The boss of the satellite's builder had come through as Clinton's largest contributor. But public outrage was absent. The F.B.I. didn't read the papers and Reno Justice did not want to embarrass the President. And television news found no pictorial values in the Asian connection. Stealthily, the Clinton Administration held back the implementation of the corrupt policy until Nov. 5 -- the day the campaign ended. Now the reporting of Jeff Gerth and The Times's investigative team is putting the spotlight of pitiless publicity on the sellout of American security. We begin to see how the daughter of China's top military commander steered at least $300,000 through the Chung channel to the D.N.C. (Apparently Mr. Chung skimmed off a chunk and may be spilling his guts lest he have to face his Beijing friends.) We begin to learn more of the Feb. 8, 1996, visit of the arms dealer Wang Jun to the Commerce office of Ron Brown, and Wang's "coffee" meeting that day with the President, the very day that Clinton approved four Chinese launches -- even as China was terrorizing Taiwan with missile tests. Clinton's explanation, which used to slyly suggest that China policy was not changed "solely" by contributors, has now switched to total ignorance: shucks, we didn't know the source of the money. But this President's D.N.C. did not know because it wanted not to know; procedures long in place to prevent the unlawful inflow of foreign funds were uprooted by the money-hungry Clintonites. Today, two years after this sale of our security, comes the unforeseen chain reaction: as China strengthens its satellite and missile technology, a new Indian Government reacts to the growing threat from its longtime Asian rival and joins the nuclear club. In turn, China feels pressed to supply its threatened ally, Pakistan, with weaponry Beijing promised us not to transfer. This makes Clinton the Proliferation President. Who has helped keep this sellout of security under wraps? In the Senate, John Glenn was rewarded with a space flight by Clinton for derogating the leads to China of the Thompson committee. Fred Thompson's warnings about China's plan to penetrate this White House were then scorned by Democratic partisans; his Government Operations Committee should now swarm all over this. The House's aggressive agent of the Clinton cover-up, Henry Waxman of California, is finally "troubled" by the prospect of damning evidence he prevented the Burton committee from finding. At least three Democratic partisans who foolishly followed Waxman in blocking the testimony of Asian witnesses may have difficulty explaining their cover-up vote to even more troubled voters in their districts. The Gerth revelations lead to more questions: Where were the chiefs of the C.I.A. and the National Security Agency, their intelligence so dependent on satellites, on the satellite technology sale to China? Is anybody at Reno Justice re-examining testimony taken by independent counsel investigating corruption at Commerce before Ron Brown's death? Does Brown's former lawyer claim "dead man's privilege" on notes? Did N.S.A. tape overseas calls of suspect Commerce officials? Who induced Commerce to lobby Clinton for control of satellite technology? And the most immediate: Will homesick prosecutor Charles LaBella, beholden to Janet Reno for his political appointment in San Diego, dare to offend his patron by calling for independent counsel? - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 11:54:55 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Waco video -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA00468; Tue, 26 May 1998 12:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 12:38:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma000283; Tue May 26 12:36:04 1998 Message-Id: <356AD80F.3AC1@GunsSaveLives.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: chairman@gunssavelives.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: chairman@gunssavelives.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Waco video X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list We need an email campaign. We were able to help sell several copies of the oscar-nominated documentary, "Waco: The Rules of Engagement," through Amazon.com recently. It obviously must be selling more than a few copies. Today I find THEY HAVE REMOVED IT FROM THEIR CATALOG. Amazon sells a lot of "Unintended Consequences" and other gun and freedom titles. Please email them at mailto:feedback@amazon.com and request they restore the Waco video, isbn 0966210506 to their catalog. This video needs wide distribution so people know what's really happening. I imagine they were pressured to remove it by the NWO. - -Rick - --------------------------------------- get gun books and all books through: http://thePentagon.com/Training small commission to pro-gun groups - --------------------------------------- - -- Don't agonize. Organize. http://GunsSaveLives.com (Opinions here are personal and not those of any organization.) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:55:12 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: The BBC Poll -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id PAA17308; Tue, 26 May 1998 15:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma017053; Tue May 26 15:37:50 1998 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980526192447.008d3818@inet.skillnet.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: rlh@recon.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Richard Hartman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The BBC Poll X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list My comments to: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_100000/100102.asp Bans do not work in a free society. The US once tried to ban liquor, an attempt which led to death in the streets back in the first decades of this century. Or consider the attempt to ban drugs: They remain available on nearly any street corner despite billions in costs, "no-knock" assault entries by police, and the like. Shall we now repeat these "successes" with guns? Doing so will create an even larger black market and bolder criminals, while dividing the nation's citizens against each other. Now is a time for cohesiveness, not divisiveness, amongst the law-abiding. Guns and children have co-existed in the US since its founding. Only in the past few decades has the US started restricting guns, and only in the past few years have child-gun incidents been on the rise. The guns have always been there; the children have always been there. Blaming guns is a shortsighted excuse for "doing something". We must address the _root_causes_ of this phenomenon rather than seizing upon an emotional, but dangerous, reaction. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:49:16 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Form 4473 Firearm Registration -Forwarded The PROponent Peoples Rights Organization 3953 Indianola Ave Columbus, OH 43214 (614) 268-0122 ____________________________________________________________ Volume 9 April, 1997 Number 4 ____________________________________________________________ GUN REGISTRATION PROCEEDING NICELY... A pro-gunner remarked some years ago that there was no use fighting against gun registration, because all the guns in America were already registered! It's just that the government hasn't collected all the forms yet! But now the government IS collecting your name and registering your guns. The mechanism is quite simple and straightforward. YOU have already registered every gun you have purchased from a "licensed" FFL dealer. You filled out a 4473 "yellow sheet" giving all the information any gun "registrar" would need to know (OK, except maybe a copy of your fingerprints). The law states that when an FFL dealer goes out of business, those gun "registration" forms get turned into the government. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms wants your name in a computer database so badly their teeth hurt! You want proof of this? OK. The construction of such a database is totally illegal and contrary to the expressed will of Congress. But the BATF simply illegally went ahead and started computerizing the gun owners anyway. When Congress complained, they told Congress to take a flying leap. But Congress much to their credit, did NOT take a leap. They cut the ATF funding for doing this dirty work. But the gun-grabbers were not deterred. They pulled in IOUs and as PRO members recall, recently got the funding for this illegal registration activity restored. Also the registration net was widened by encouraging local law enforcement to break the "law" by keeping "Brady" information. Cleverly, while the "Brady" law makes keeping a database a "crime" there is no punishment provided for the "crime"! To get around the no database directives of Congress, the justice Department has invented the "FIST" software designed for local law enforcement to legally generate databases which can be accessed INTERNET-style by the Feds. Thus, technically, "they" are not keeping the records. The ATF has admitted the "computerization" of the yellow sheets, but tried to pass it off as "indexing" rather than what they obviously have been trying to do from the beginning. And now with money restored, "indexing" of you and I can proceed apace. And there is obviously a plan to help provide the raw materials of the gun registration list. The plan is to drive as many FFL holders as possible out of business, because every former gun dealer is required to turn in his collection of gun registration forms, "yellow sheets," to the ATF. From there it is one small step into the gun owners list of names file. An editorial in the February 5, 1997 Columbus Dispatch gloats over this victory. They noted that the number of FFL holders has dropped 56 percent in the last three years. The Dispatch editors didn't say so, but we are sure they understand that this could mean the registration of up to half the guns sold legally in the United States. Needless to say, the editor-whores at the paper instead of pointing out that registration of honest gun owners does nothing about criminal misuse of guns, choose to equate honest businessmen with criminals. They say: "It's impossible to say so with any certainty that there's a connection, but common sense would suggest that perhaps there is. Of course President Clinton is claiming credit in a statement that says, 'Fly-by-night gun traffickers no longer have the cover of federal law to peddle their weapons.'" This kind of calculated disinformation makes me so angry. Common sense indeed! What common sense tells me is that there clearly is NOT ANY DEMONSTRATED CONNECTION between honest licensed gun sales and criminal behavior such as murder. The number of guns owned has not decreased even though the number of licensed dealers has. And no one has yet to definitively show a connection even between the number of guns and the murder rate let alone between gun dealers and the murder rate! The editors at the Dispatch tout a "common sense" two steps removed from real data. So my "common sense" tells me that only two possibilities exist: 1. The editors at the Columbus Dispatch are some of the most ignorant human beings on the planet. or 2. The Dispatch editors are very well trained propagandists who like any common prostitute have sold their skills along with their morality to gain a few pieces of gold. I know my opinion, you make your choice. So why is the Dispatch crowing that FFL fees being increased from $10 to $200 has caused record gun dealer declines? They note, "The number of gun dealers in California has dropped by 15,000 to 8,827, while in Texas there are 9,187 gun dealers, 11,000 fewer than in 1993." Could the REAL reason be it's those stacks and stacks of registration forms? That's thousands and thousands of names and addresses to be used "when the time comes" for ninja-clad "jackbooted thugs" to start kicking in our doors because "the laws have changed". Are newspaper editors lovers of big brother dictatorial rule? Maybe. But our "ignorance" option holds some water here too. We'll bet that these editors are beating the drum for the "benefits" of totalitarian rule, thinking that by reason of their lengthy "service" to the power elite, they are going to be part of the ruling class "when the day comes". Fat chance! These clowns are so dumb that they can't even figure out that they are only of some value so long as they are needed to dupe the public and spread lies and propaganda. But when the power elite truly takes control, you can be sure that these media people will be disposed of as easily and as ruthlessly as they will [try to] dispose of us gun owners. You see, not only do they now have a growing list of gun owners with names and addresses, but those seeking power no doubt already have a complete list of the names and addresses of all newspaper editors too! ____________________________________________________________ The PROponent is published by: Peoples Rights Organization; 3953 Indianola Ave.; Columbus, OH 43214; Tel (614) 268-0122 Fax (614) 261-9100 (note new fax number!) EMAIL: Compuserve ID: 2PRO INTERNET: 2PRO@compuserve.com or dcarney@bronze.coil.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:59:44 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Guns, Schools, and The Press.. -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id QAA17233; Mon, 25 May 1998 16:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:42:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma016683; Mon May 25 16:37:59 1998 Message-Id: <199805250400.VAA24513@ednet1.orednet.org> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: mnasstro@orednet.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: mnasstro@orednet.org (Mark C. Nasstrom) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Guns, Schools, and The Press.. X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list This is some of the reaction by the press wrt the tragedy in Springfield, Oregon last week. Note that not *all* of it is/was negative. I wrote a quick note to the editor of the American Reporter in response to his editorial, which was printed (and enclosed) as well. First, off the Associated Press wire: Springfield schools Superintendent Jamon Kent said guns were not a significant problem in the district, but a survey released this week reported that 2 percent of Oregon high school students said they had brought firearms onto school property in the past 30 days. Robert and Linda Ryker, whose sons Jacob and Josh were among those who subdued the suspect, cautioned against making guns the issue. Instead the Rykers, members of the National Rifle Association, said their boys' familiarity with weapons made them more willing to move in when they got the chance. "They are not afraid of them," Linda Ryker said. "I think that all of that did lead to the fact that my boys did not panic when they saw (the gun)." The Ryker boys and other students credited with prevented further bloodshed said they did not want to be thought of as heroes, [...] * * * Now, the American Reporter Editorial from Friday, May 22, 1998: The American Reporter Vol. 4, No. 815 - May 22, 1998 EDITORIAL "KILL THE CULPRIT" Joe Shea American Reporter Editor-in-Chief Hollywood, Calif. The culprit in the wave of high school violence sweeping the country -- and there were three shooting incidents in American high schools today, including the carnage in Springfield, Ore. -- is drinking up quarters by the thousands and creating more elementary and high school shooters as we read. Before we take guns from Americans, let's kill the culprit. The shootings have arced up ever since the introduction of a new generation of arcade games -- now available on desktops, of course -- that offer graphic depictions of exploding bloody human heads. Some are atop drug dealers, some atop vampires, some atop monsters, but in each case the reward for the child who pulls the trigger is an explosion of brains that is apparently the next best thing to masturbation --and at the psychiatric level, is probably a substitute. I remember thinking several years ago when I first saw the new graphics that we would soon seen a strong upsurge in shootings by children. Children mad at their girlfriends. Children mad at their teachers. Children mad at their classmates. Children mad at their parents. Mad children who grab guns and recreate the vicarious pleasure they get from video screens have opened fire on American schools. What are we going to do about it? An assault on the First Amendment rights of games creators to compete with the bloodiest of 'em need not be restricted. Someone just needs to take a hammer to those games. Kids spend hours watching those heads explode, night and day, in shopping malls, convenience stores, pizza joints and everywhere else a kid who has no parental supervision after school or at night -- even in his bedroom -- can find them. Is it so strange, when they become as mad and think as unrealistically as they do when their hormones start to rage -- that they do in real life what they spend so many hours doing in fantasy? Give up guns? When Congressmen and presidents take money from Chinese generals? Can anyone really imagine a disarmed American society when politicians steal us blind and sell our jobs out as we speak? When our next government may have Inc. after its name? Not on your life. Let's learn to live with them, as the Swiss and the Israelis have. But video machines? Go ahead, smash them to pieces. That will be more than a start. * * * ________________ THE A.R. MAILBOX + Mark C. Nasstrom American Reporter Subscriber Yachats, Ore. guns free THANKS FOR NOT BEING PREDICTABLE by Mark C. Nasstrom American Reporter Subscriber Great editorial, as usual! (AR, No. 814 "Kill The Culprit") I just quickly scanned other news sources and didn't see anything written elsewhere about tv and movies. Wasn't there a movie not too long ago where some kid (maybe it was an MTV Video) walked into his classroom, and hosed the teacher and his fellow classmates? Yesterday, I believe, there was a kid in Texas who shot his girlfriend (?) in the parking lot. I saw it on Reuters. Thanks for not coming out with the usual disarm-the-American-populace mantra pushed forth in the aftermath of carnage such as this, as the gun-grabbing politicians will. Society is crumbling around our ears when kids go into a school and shoot other kids. Now, watch the politicians attempt to make political hay out of this tragedy. And few will notice. Mark C. Nasstrom Yachats, Ore. via Internet - -- # #03 Seaview # Illegitimi non Carborundum # ## The Lumberyard BBS ## # # Hardwired On The Edge of North America @ YACHATS 541.547.4605 OREGON # # ###### *^Oregon^Coast^Rural^Information^Service^Cooperative^* ###### # - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:55:12 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: The BBC Poll -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id PAA17308; Tue, 26 May 1998 15:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma017053; Tue May 26 15:37:50 1998 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980526192447.008d3818@inet.skillnet.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: rlh@recon.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Richard Hartman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The BBC Poll X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list My comments to: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_100000/100102.asp Bans do not work in a free society. The US once tried to ban liquor, an attempt which led to death in the streets back in the first decades of this century. Or consider the attempt to ban drugs: They remain available on nearly any street corner despite billions in costs, "no-knock" assault entries by police, and the like. Shall we now repeat these "successes" with guns? Doing so will create an even larger black market and bolder criminals, while dividing the nation's citizens against each other. Now is a time for cohesiveness, not divisiveness, amongst the law-abiding. Guns and children have co-existed in the US since its founding. Only in the past few decades has the US started restricting guns, and only in the past few years have child-gun incidents been on the rise. The guns have always been there; the children have always been there. Blaming guns is a shortsighted excuse for "doing something". We must address the _root_causes_ of this phenomenon rather than seizing upon an emotional, but dangerous, reaction. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:46:02 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Re: [AR15-L] Re: Let Teachers CCW (fwd) -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id QAA17230; Mon, 25 May 1998 16:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma016673; Mon May 25 16:37:53 1998 Message-Id: <9805250357.0jza@xpresso.seaslug.org> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: noban@xpresso.seaslug.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: noban@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: [AR15-L] Re: Let Teachers CCW (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list On May 25, Real Name: wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Hi, http://www.mclaughlin.com/ The Mclaughlin Group, PBS program . Go vote on whether China-Gate is Treason . Voting is running 60%-80% Treason, by age group . Spread this URL far, and wide . Stay Stronger, Ken. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 14:50:28 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: Re: [AR15-L] Re: Let Teachers CCW (fwd) -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id QAA17230; Mon, 25 May 1998 16:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:42:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma016673; Mon May 25 16:37:53 1998 Message-Id: <9805250357.0jza@xpresso.seaslug.org> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: noban@xpresso.seaslug.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: noban@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: [AR15-L] Re: Let Teachers CCW (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list On May 25, Real Name: wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows --------------------] Hi, http://www.mclaughlin.com/ The Mclaughlin Group, PBS program . Go vote on whether China-Gate is Treason . Voting is running 60%-80% Treason, by age group . Spread this URL far, and wide . Stay Stronger, Ken. [------------------------- end of forwarded message ------------------------] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand = Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 13:55:12 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: The BBC Poll -Forwarded Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id PAA17308; Tue, 26 May 1998 15:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 15:41:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma017053; Tue May 26 15:37:50 1998 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980526192447.008d3818@inet.skillnet.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: rlh@recon.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Richard Hartman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: The BBC Poll X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list My comments to: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_100000/100102.asp Bans do not work in a free society. The US once tried to ban liquor, an attempt which led to death in the streets back in the first decades of this century. Or consider the attempt to ban drugs: They remain available on nearly any street corner despite billions in costs, "no-knock" assault entries by police, and the like. Shall we now repeat these "successes" with guns? Doing so will create an even larger black market and bolder criminals, while dividing the nation's citizens against each other. Now is a time for cohesiveness, not divisiveness, amongst the law-abiding. Guns and children have co-existed in the US since its founding. Only in the past few decades has the US started restricting guns, and only in the past few years have child-gun incidents been on the rise. The guns have always been there; the children have always been there. Blaming guns is a shortsighted excuse for "doing something". We must address the _root_causes_ of this phenomenon rather than seizing upon an emotional, but dangerous, reaction. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 16:49:14 -0700 From: DAVID SAGERS Subject: MEDIA BLACKOUT-"ROLLING THUNDER" -Forwarded This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------999EC38A14061B5DFA97F15A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Over half a million bikers shut down Constitution Avenue! Where was the MEDIA? Last Sunday (Memorial weekendd) approximately 750 thousand Viet Nam veterans rolled their motorcycles into Washington D. C. and essentially shut down Constitution Avenue. Bikers from all over the country assembled at the Pentagon parking lot early Sunday morning,. At noon, the parking lot was full with over 18 miles of highway closed down with remaining incoming motorcycles! Veterans from as far away as Alaska traveled to Washington so they could show respect and give support to the servicemen and women who fought and died half way around the world. "Rolling Thunder XI" was the largest gathering assembled so far to bring attention to the plight of all veterans, families, fallen brothers, POWs and MIAs. Artie Muller, National Chairman of Rolling Thunder stated emphatically : "This gathering of real Americans is designed to send a message to Washington that those that were willing to die for their country will never be forgotten or forsaken, we are only getting stronger!" Joyce Riley, Spokesperson for the American Gulf War Veterans Association was one of the invited speakers to address the plight of the Gulf War Veterans. Viet Nam and Gulf War veterans share a common grievance with the government because both were exposed to toxic agents and to this day have been denied any meaningful treatment or compensation."Where were the Senators? Congressman? Pentagon officials? Where were the military leaders and so-called Viet Nam War heros who claim to stand for their men? Where was the American Legion? The VFW? The Veteran's Administration? How could this many people be gathered for such a worthy cause and have the American media black this out all over the country?" The Gold Star Mothers consists of those who lost a son in Viet Nam. One of the mother's explained, " My son was buried on his 19th birthday." Another stated, "My son would have celebrated his 51st birthday tomorrow." Their appearance evoked an emotional response that cannot be described in words. All who attended agreed to return with at least one other person next year so that maybe one and a half million will be at "Rolling ThunderXII"!. We encourage everyone to contact CNN at (404) 827-1500 and ask them : "Why don't the men and women who were willing to die for their country deserve as much air time as J.J. the whale? Why didn't they tell about the 2200 men and women that are still left behind? Why don't they tell you 20,000 Gulf War veterans have died? America, at the wall this year the chant was: "WE DEMAND ACCOUNTIBILITY." That goes for the media also. God bless the POW/MIA's you are Not Forgotton, God save this Constitutional Republic! - -- American Gulf War Veteran's Association 3506 Highway 6 South #117 Sugarland,Texas 77478-4401 1-800-231-7631 "There can be a million lies but there is only ONE Truth" http://www.gulfwarvets.com - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #61 **********************************