From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #79 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Thursday, July 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 079 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:57:17 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Re: State judge rules federal policy is unconstitutional Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:29:24 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA05011; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:18:56 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA27045; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:26:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma026838; Wed Jul 1 12:22:19 1998 Message-Id: <359A56A1.568B1361@inetnebr.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: lball@inetnebr.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: larry ball To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: State judge rules federal policy is unconstitutional X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Is your assumption true? or is it that the judge is defending the 14th amendment rights of sodomites? I assume this also opens the doors for pedophiles, and those with a = natural propensity for beastiality, is this correct? How about those who have a "natural" propensity for sex with dead bodies? Will you be able to trust them on the field of battle? or will they get sidetracked? Larry Ball lball@inetnebr.com Bruce Stanton wrote: > http://www.cnn.com/US/9807/01/natl.guard.gays/ > > SAN FRANCISCO (CNN) - A > California Superior Court judge > Monday ruled against the military's > "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays > and ordered the California National Guard to open its > ranks to all people, regardless of sexual orientation. > > Judge David Garcia, said in his ruling that the California > National Guard violates the rights of gays, lesbians and > bisexuals under the California Constitution by banning > them from service under "don't ask, don't tell." > ********************************************************** > > This is interesting. The anti-gun crowd has long argued > the Second Amendment applies to state run militias, such > as the National Guard. > > If the federal government steps in to fight this, it will > show the National Guard are really federal troops. > > Pilgrim > > -- > Home page at: http://userzweb.lightspeed.net/~bruels > PGP public keys at: http://userzweb.lightspeed.net/~bruels/publickey.htm - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 11:44:15 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: *Re: Fwd: Re: homicide rates Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 04:10:35 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id EAA02395; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 04:00:06 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id GAA05224; Sun, 28 Jun 1998 06:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 28 Jun 1998 06:00:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma005200; Sun Jun 28 05:58:53 1998 Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: gonzalez@mcs.net Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: David Gonzalez To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: *Re: Fwd: Re: homicide rates X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Sun, 28 Jun 1998, Scot wrote: > When you add suicide and homicide rates together Japan, because of its > high suicide rate, is has a higher rate than that of the US. You may not > like to believe it but it is true. Huh? Is this *supposed* to read "Since you add suicide and homicide rates together, Japan--because of its high suicide rate--has a higher rate than that of the U.S.."? Speaking of suicide, my Nipponese Chicago neighbor should be aware that in their fraudulent--though much-ballyhooed--piece in the New England Journal of Medicine, Arthur Kellermann and Donald Reay cleverly manipulated the numbers to arrive at their "43-times-more-likely to kill a loved one than an intruder" characterization of a firearm kept in the home. When one closely examines the data associated with this study, one finds that 86% of the "homicides"--almost 9 out of 10--were actually SUICIDES! Why is this important? Because, current wisdom to the contrary, suicide is *not* an impulsive act! Oftentimes, it is a painstakingly-methodical process of will-writing, goodbye visits, acquisition of a weapon (if one is not already owned), final preparations, and--ultimately--the act of pulling the trigger. (Anecdotal evidence gleaned from psych-types---no demands for "hard" statistical evidence, please!) Does *anyone* seriously believe that a concerted effort (or even a law) to rid homes of firearms will thwart that sort of determined effort? (I once knew a woman whose husband tried to kill himself three times before he finally jumped off a third-story fire escape and broke his neck!) Yet charlatans like Kellermann and Reay manipulate the statistics (sponsored by the CDC and paid for by the Pew Memorial Trust) to suggest that we will use our bedside guns to murder our spouses 43 times more often than we will use them to repel home invaders. What balderdash! David M. Gonzalez, Troglodyte Wheeling, Illinois Replies/Abuse: gonzalez@mcs.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:07:16 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: GunsSaveLives makes it to ABC News! Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:09:32 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id TAA00641; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:52:52 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id WAA26287; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:01:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma026237; Thu Jun 25 22:01:08 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.2.32.19980625211856.030b6b28@mail.wizard.net> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: kc@wizard.net Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Tim Casey To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: GunsSaveLives makes it to ABC News! X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline GunSavesLives (http://gunssavelives.com) made it the latest ABC News story on guns! Click below for the story. http://www.abcnews.com/sections/us/DailyNews/ringoffire980623.html Tim Casey Executive Director GunsSaveLives Tim Casey AOL Instant Messenger ID jhp115gr DSS/DH PGP public key available upon request. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:17:48 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Re: [retiree-mil] Gen. Marion Carl Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:38:44 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id VAA04546; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:28:16 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id XAA04374; Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 23:37:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma004193; Tue Jun 30 23:33:23 1998 Message-Id: <19980630.213612.3454.20.kpnbeararms@juno.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: kpnbeararms@juno.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: kpnbeararms@juno.com To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: [retiree-mil] Gen. Marion Carl X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Albert- I too. This was reported on the network news tonight. Instant ammo for the control set, although it certainly should unfortunately count for our point, that a weapon could have prevented this crime. - -Dave On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 22:16:24 -0400 (EDT) Albert Buys writes: > >This news shocked me. >Albert > > > >ROSEBURG, Ore. - Retired Gen. Marion Carl, a World War II ace > and postwar test pilot considered the "Chuck Yeager=20 >of > the Marine > Corps," was shot to death in a robbery at his home by=20 >a > man who > kicked in his door.=20 > > The 82-year-old Carl, one of the Marines' most highly > decorated > aviators, was shot in the head Sunday night. His=20 >wife, > Edna, suffered a > glancing shotgun blast to the head. > > > > > >----=20 >Read this list on the Web at http://www.FindMail.com/list/retiree-mil/=20 > >To unsubscribe, email to retiree-mil-unsubscribe@makelist.com >To subscribe, email to retiree-mil-subscribe@makelist.com >-- >Start a FREE E-Mail List at http://makelist.com ! > _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:38:30 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: from today's WATimes Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:30:39 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA00582; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 17:20:17 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id TAA18931; Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma018864; Thu Jun 25 19:26:58 1998 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980625221305.008d0b30@inet.realresume.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: rlh@recon.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Richard Hartman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: from today's WATimes X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Would that it were possible to speak it, and make it true. - ----- Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott astonished many in attendance at = the National Rifle Association meeting in Philadelphia, writes David Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union. The normally circumspect Republican from Mississippi promised "to = fight and defeat the latest Clinton administration assault on gun owners and purchasers -- the fee the government proposes to collect to finance the background checks imposed by the so-called Brady Bill," Mr. Keene wrote in his column in the Hill newspaper. And Mr. Lott did not stop there. He also said the government should encourage gun ownership as a way to deter crime. "He even suggested that the law ought to be changed so that ROTC = units on the nation's campuses can provide firearms training to students who aren't enrolled in ROTC and suggested that police stations in crime-plagued= neighborhoods be turned into 'self-defense centers' to provide residents = of such neighborhoods with the training they need to defend themselves, their families and their homes from the criminals among them." Few who heard Mr. Lott doubt that he will follow through on his = words, said Mr. Keene, who added: "We'll see." - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:42:18 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: re: Scholarly thesis on Lott book Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:20:37 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA29246; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:10:16 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id NAA17544; Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:17:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma017311; Wed Jun 24 13:13:38 1998 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980624165857.008f1a5c@inet.realresume.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: rlh@recon.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Richard Hartman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: re: Scholarly thesis on Lott book X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Finally! FINALLY! The war of the sound bites turns in our favor! Check = this out: - ----- Frank Zimring, a professor of law at the University of California at Berkeley, says the huge drop in crime that Mr. Lott attributes to one = piece of legislation would, if true, amount to "a miracle of the loaves and the fishes." To back up those first impressions, however, social scientists have had to dive into the data themselves. And there, they say, Mr. Lott has a polemic advantage over them. "There isn't any way to boil down the criticism into = a simple message, and that's a big problem," says Jon Vernick, associate director of the Center for Gun Policy and Research at the Johns Hopkins University. "Lott is able to say, 'My study shows that this law is responsible for X fewer murders every year, and if every state passed this kind of law, X lives would be saved each year.' That's a media-ready thing to say. For the most part, the criticisms get at complex methodological = stuff." - ----- For years we've been fighting the anti's ability to quip emotional sound bites, while we struggled with logical arguments. Our positions were irrefutable, but suffered from a critical flaw: They required the listener (voter) to _think_. Lott's material changes that. "These laws are responsible for X fewer murders every year, and if every state passed this kind of law, X lives would be saved each year." What a PERFECT sound bite. Short, with huge emotional impact, conveying an easy-to-remember message. = It can even be compressed onto a sign carried at rallies - the classic "video bite" of network television. In the 19 states where shall-issue CCW has yet to be passed, perhaps this should become our main message. Finally, _we_ have an emotional sound and video bite that the opposition cannot simply wave away. It won't last forever... let's use it for all it's worth. RLH - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 18:29:46 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: A True Test Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 01 Jul 1998 17:50:23 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA05348; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 17:39:55 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id TAA21793; Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma021660; Wed Jul 1 19:46:28 1998 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980701231423.008d7a2c@inet.realresume.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: rlh@recon.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Richard Hartman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: A True Test X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline If Clinton argues against this, it's pure hypocrisy. Richmond VA has = already shown that this plan works to reduce crime while preserving civil rights. What good are more laws if Clinton refuses to enforce the ones we've got? That's nothing but hypocrisy, pure and simple. Are they afraid that the existing laws might actually WORK in Philadelphia like they do in = Richmond? Heavens, we can't have that! It might remove gun control as a topic of political rhetoric... they might actually have to start dealing with REAL issues for a change. Here's your litmus test, Clinton. Do you care more about people, or = politics? - ----- PHILADELPHIA (Reuters) - Mayor Edward Rendell said Wednesday that he would meet with Clinton administration officials in hopes of getting White House support for a controversial plan to combat gun violence in Philadelph= ia.=20 The plan, which has been promoted by the National Rifle Association, would make the fifth-largest U.S. city a test case for curtailing gun-related violence through strict enforcement of existing federal = statutes.=20 City officials said $1.5 million already has been set aside in legislation under discussion by a U.S. Senate committee to fund extra federal prosecutors, investigators and other resources necessary for implementing the program in Philadelphia.=20 Up to now, White House officials have been lukewarm to the idea in public. But Rendell said he believes President Clinton could come to = support the idea, despite harsh NRA rhetoric toward the administration.=20 Officials from the city and the White House were expected to discuss the program in Washington this summer. The plan has strong support from = Sen. Arlen Specter, Republican of Pennsylvania.=20 "They've said they're interested. I do believe they're going to cooperate," Rendell, a liberal Democrat, said of the Clinton administration= .=20 "Nobody should misunderstand that this means we agree with the NRA on everything. By no means. Any idea that has the chance to reduce the level = of gun violence in Philadelphia, I'm willing to try."=20 The strategy, aired by NRA President Charlton Heston at the organization's annual convention in Philadelphia this month, would single out one U.S. city as a "zero-tolerance" zone for federal gun violations by beefing up the number of U.S. prosecutors and investigators.=20 The NRA backs the idea because it promises to demonstrate that gun violence in the United States can be traced not to lax gun control laws = but to a lack of enforcement.=20 Philadelphia has the highest proportion of murders and robberies committed with guns among top U.S. cities. Eighty-two percent of the city's 409 homicides in 1997 involved firearms, compared with 62 percent for New York City.=20 The plan is based on an existing program called "Operation Exile," which the U.S. Attorney's Office in Richmond, Va., has had in place since early 1997. The initiative has helped that city reduce its rate of gun-related homicide by more than 60 percent.=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 21:46:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Fwd: from today's WATimes These are good suggestions. However, I am surprised that ROTC can't provide firearms training to students who aren't enrolled in ROTC. I have had such marksmanship instruction at both East High School and the University of Utah. When did the "law" change? On Wed, 01 Jul 1998 12:38:30 -0600 David Sagers forwarded: (By the way, any chance of using short headers on your forwards?) >Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 19:28:57 -0400 (EDT) >From: Richard Hartman >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: from today's WATimes >Would that it were possible to speak it, and make it true. >----- > Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott astonished many in attendance at >the National Rifle Association meeting in Philadelphia, writes David Keene, >chairman of the American Conservative Union. > The normally circumspect Republican from Mississippi promised "to >fight and defeat the latest Clinton administration assault on gun owners >and purchasers -- the fee the government proposes to collect to finance >the background checks imposed by the so-called Brady Bill," Mr. Keene >wrote in his column in the Hill newspaper. > And Mr. Lott did not stop there. He also said the government should >encourage gun ownership as a way to deter crime. > "He even suggested that the law ought to be changed so that ROTC >units on the nation's campuses can provide firearms training to students >who aren't enrolled in ROTC and suggested that police stations in >crime-plagued neighborhoods be turned into 'self-defense centers' to >provide residents of such neighborhoods with the training they need to >defend themselves, their families and their homes from the criminals >among them." > Few who heard Mr. Lott doubt that he will follow through on his >words, said Mr. Keene, who added: "We'll see." - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 21:09:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Family doctors asked to point out gun risks - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:02:48 -0400 From: Patricia Neill Reply-To: liberty-and-justice@pobox.com To: jdinardo@idt.NET Subject: Family doctors asked to point out gun risks Sounds like they're just making up numbers again. Pretty common tactic among those folk. Good God this is aggravating! If I had a doctor that laid this kind of crap on me, I'd simply change doctors. COL. HARRY S. BACHSTEIN - ------------------------ NOTE: Will doctors be required to ask patients if they own guns, and if so, will they be required to make a record of this and report it? And will it become a crime to refuse to offer this info to a doctor, or to falsely respond to any questions he may ask about this subject? - ------------------------ Family doctors asked to point out gun risks Copyright © 1998 Scripps Howard WASHINGTON (July 1, 1998 01:04 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) -- Along with shots for mumps and measles and a plot on the growth chart, public health advocates are pressing family doctors and nurses to talk to patients about the risks posed by guns in their home during routine office visits. An expanded program to promote these discussions was announced Tuesday by Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala and Sarah Brady, chairwoman of the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence. With more than 5,000 children under 18 killed by guns each year, "gun accidents in the home are a major public health concern no less than polio or polluted water," Shalala said. "We need to get the message into every household and to every parent: If you want to keep a gun in your house, the only way to keep it is unloaded and locked up." Even before the recent rash of fatal school shootings by youngsters using high-powered weapons drew new attention to the problem, a number of physician associations had started urging members to become more active in preventing firearms injury. Noting that one out of five pediatricians nationwide had treated a young gunshot victim, the American Academy of Pediatrics joined with the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence four years ago to distribute brochures and counseling kits to some 20,000 physicians offices nationwide. And the American College of Physicians in January issued a call to its 100,000 members to counsel patients on handgun use and safety and support other efforts to reduce gun injury and violence. But a study published in the Annals of Internal Medicine this year found that while 9 of 10 physicians consider firearm violence to be a major public health issue, fewer than 20 percent said they routinely discuss the risks of firearms ownership and storage with their patients. A spokeswoman for the pediatric organization said no surveys have been done to determine how many of the doctors who received the original information kits have been using them regularly. But Brady said she knows of "case after case of people all over the country who have used these ... There's every evidence in the world that it's been used and been used very effectively." While there's some evidence that gun ownership and violence may have peaked in the past two or three years, gunshot wounds remain the second-leading cause of traumatic death in the U.S., behind only auto crashes. About 40,000 Americans are killed by guns every year. Shalala said health care providers would rather prevent an injury than fight to save a life after a shooting. Despite the time pressures faced by many doctors and other caregivers, "I can't imagine a physician or a nurse or another public health provider in this country not wanting to focus on things that affect kids' lives and families' lives. This doesn't have to be a lengthy conversation, but an ongoing conversation." Brady said there are an estimated 192 million firearms in the country, including 65 million handguns, and that surveys indicate a quarter of gun owners keep a weapon loaded and ready for use. The risks from such guns extend not just to children, but anyone in the home. Shalala said that for every instance in which a gun is used in a home to kill in self-defense, 43 family members and acquaintances die in suicides, homicides and accidents. The program unveiled Tuesday is called Steps To Prevent Firearm Injuries in the Home. Promotional mailings and distribution of the materials is being paid for by the Metropolitan Life Foundation. Besides urging gun safety within the home, the educational materials also caution parents to find out whether guns are kept in homes of their children's friends, and if so, talk to other parents to ensure they're stored safely. Lee Bowman covers health and science for Scripps Howard News Service. He can be reached at bowmanl@shns.com. Copyright 1998 Nando.net - ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. - ----------------------- COL. HARRY S. BACHSTEIN http://members.aol.com/bach11/adventurer.htm "Man is not my Ultimate Judge." 1998 Polaris News Syndicate ************************************************** NEW! The Colonel has joined STEELHORSE MAGAZINE http://www.steelhorsemag.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 08:55:05 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Gun-safety starts with parental responsibility Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 02 Jul 1998 08:37:15 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA05799; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:26:45 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id KAA15568; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma015475; Thu Jul 2 10:34:08 1998 Message-Id: <199807021404.JAA09374@monarch.papillion.ne.us> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: mriddle@monarch.papillion.ne.us Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: "Mike Riddle" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Gun-safety starts with parental responsibility X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline From: Jewish World Review / July 2, 1998 / 8 Tamuz, 5758 Thomas Sowell Gun-safety starts with parental responsibility POLITICAL REACTIONS to this year's rash of schoolhouse shootings have been classic liberalism: The government should crack down on gun owners who haven't shot anybody. Meanwhile, liberals have very little interest in punishing the young murderers, and instead are ready to listen to psychobabble excuses. The latest ploy in the anti-gun crusade is shifting from emphasis on gun "control" to emphasis on gun "safety." As with so many other safety issues, few people -- least of all politicians -- seem ready to acknowledge that one kind of safety often comes at the expense of other kinds of safety. Child-locks for guns are the latest safety craze. But schoolhouse shootings are not being done by infants and toddlers. They are being done by people old enough to figure out any lock that an adult can figure out. Child-locks provide no protection whatever against the premeditated murder of school children and their teachers. If you are serious about stopping smaller children from firing guns that they may find around the house, there is an incredibly simple way to prevent that: Don't leave the guns loaded. Moreover, most guns already have safety devices. Maybe some parents are not responsible enough or thoughtful enough to remember to take the bullets out of guns that they keep in their homes. But are such parents any more likely to remember to lock the gun? More important, how often does this happen? More children die each year from bicycle accidents than from gun accidents, but where is there any such orchestrated hysteria about a need to ban bicycles? There is a dangerous down side to locking guns -- and especially adding a child-lock to the existing safety devices. Many people keep guns in their homes to protect themselves and their families. Studies show that these guns have in fact saved great numbers of people from being victims of intruders in their homes. Multiple safety devices slow down the very people who need to be able to fire in self-defense. Criminals with guns will undoubtedly already have them unlocked and loaded. Zealots for gun-control laws never seem to understand that criminals do not obey laws. Gun control means unilateral disarmament of law-abiding citizens. These law-abiding citizens have used guns to defend themselves at least 760,000 times in a single year. Some people with gun permits have saved policemen's lives by coming to their rescue. None of this fits the liberal vision, so you are unlikely to hear about it in the mainstream media. In the liberal vision, the rest of us are such irresponsible slobs that we will go around shooting members of our family or our friends, whether in anger at the moment or out of sheer carelessness. But what are the facts? Since the mid-1980s, there has been a 50 percent increase in gun ownership. If guns are the problem, then we should have seen a rise in murders. Instead, there has been a decline in murder and other violent crimes -- especially in places where gun ownership has gone up. In a country with more than a quarter of a billion people, you can find isolated examples of almost anything. But the handful of accidental deaths from guns are far outweighed by the reduced murder rate with increased gun ownership. If guns are the problem, then there should be higher murder rates in rural areas, where guns are more prevalent, or among whites, who have a higher rate of gun ownership than blacks. In both cases, the facts are directly the opposite. A careful and extensive study of the actual effects of gun ownership has just been published by Professor John Lott of the University of Chicago. It is titled "More Guns, Less Crime." You may not hear much about this book in the media because its factual data annihilate the liberal shibboleths about gun control. The truly ugly side of the gun-control crusade is in its typical liberal assumption that ordinary people must be deprived of self-reliance and have the government take care of them instead. Unfortunately, the government is in no position to put a cop on every street corner, much less in every home. As Professor Lott discovered, gun ownership deters crime. But what will deter liberals? Certainly not the facts. They have too much invested in their vision of themselves as the saviors of us all. Crime. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:28:21 -0600 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: [Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com: July 6 column - national ID] - ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE---- FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED JULY 6, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz 'If we're treated like a number, we're property' Lisa S. Dean, Director of the Center for Technology Policy at the Free Congress Foundation writes: "I recently traveled in Russia where, despite the collapse of the Soviet Union, every citizen is still required to have an internal passport on his person at all times. If the citizen is ever stopped and asked for proper identification and fails to produce his internal passport, there are serious consequences. ... "We in the United States always prided ourselves on the fact that we had no such internal controls. ... When Social Security was first debated in the Roosevelt Administration, the president himself assured American citizens that a Social Security number would never be used for identification purposes." But on June 17, the U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration issued proposed new rules requiring all citizens to obtain a driver's license containing a Social Security number by Oct. 1, 2000 -- previous federal enactments already require this ID card to include such "biometric identifiers" as a digitized thumbprint on a magnetic strip -- and requiring the states to verify those numbers with the Social Security Administration. "Without that license," Ms. Dean warns, "citizens will no longer be eligible for health care, or employment, to conduct bank transactions, to board an airplane, purchase insurance, will be ineligible for a passport and so forth. Any medical provider who takes care of you if you don't have this card will forfeit any reimbursements from federal medical programs. Fat chance that you can get medical care under these rules." Meantime, The Orange County Register reported on June 24: "Immigration and Nationalization Service officials (on June 23) unveiled INSPASS, a high-tech identification system that checks a person's biometrics -- such as hand and retina scans -- for the purposes of getting frequent travelers quickly through Customs. ... "Both (INSPASS and the nationalized 'driver's license') are part of a growing trend that is unhealthy in a free society -- the federal government amassing more and more information about individual citizens in centralized databases," the California daily noted in its June 24 editorial. "And this isn't a government that can be trusted with such data. Congress has been holding hearings on the abuses of taxpayers by the IRS, in which agents intimidated taxpayers and in some cases sold private tax data. The Clinton administration also is being investigated for inappropriately using the FBI files of 900 persons." # # # When Congress took an up-or-down vote on a national ID card during the recent immigration debates, our representatives emphatically rejected such a requirement, reports Ms. Dean of the Free Congress Foundation (sister think tank to Washington's Heritage Foundation.) But "That never stops either those who would destroy our liberty in Congress or in the Clinton Administration. "God help you if your name gets messed up in the computer," Ms. Dean warns. "You might bleed to death before you get medical treatment. You might be denied that new job you worked so hard to get." Ms. Dean only concentrates on (highly likely) government foul-ups. The more ominous question with a national personal tracking system is what happens if some bureaucrat with time on his hands decides to cross-reference "registered gun owners" with people who write "anti-government letters" ... Adds Cold War scholar Dave Wren of Chicago: "My first serious political discussions took place in the 1940s with DP's (Displaced Persons.) Chicago back then was filled with DP's from every part of Europe. All had one thing in common, a burning hate for the political system that had forced them to leave their homeland, homes and family. Each hated the USSR and its socialism, built on internal passports, national identification documents, papers, pass cards and those blue ID numbers tattooed on some arms. Fifty years later Americans are being fitted with the same chains, Americans reach their hands out for the shackles. ..." Not everywhere, fortunately. Bobby Franklin, a first-term member of the Georgia House of Representatives, reports mandatory fingerprinting for Georgia was slipped through on the last day of the 1996 legislative session there, and that efforts to repeal it have since been stymied by consummate procedural chicanery. Next door in Alabama, Franklin reports, "Their department of public safety just up and said, 'Hey guys, we're fingerprinting.' And there was such a public outcry against it that the department backed down and they're not fingerprinting. And we're very close to repealing, here. Our two major Republican candidates for governor this year are both saying they will issue an executive order banning our Motor Vehicle Department from fingerprinting." # # # In New Jersey, Patrick Poole (also of the Free Congress Foundation) writes that on June 29, "A coalition of Right/Left organizations turned back New Jersey's Gov. Christie Todd Whitman's 'AccessNJ' driver's license proposal in both the State Assembly and Senate." The AccessNJ proposal would have created a 10-year "smart card" drivers license that would have been required for all government programs and services, while authorizing banks, hospitals, schools, libraries, credit card and insurance companies to electronically store information on the drivers license as well. Dr. Seriah Rein of Concerned Women for America -- one of the groups lobbying against the New Jersey proposal -- told Poole, "This is not an AccessNJ card; this is an access our privacy card." Hearings were held on the New Jersey proposal on June 22, only days after the bills were introduced. In no state where attempts have been made to adopt the so-called "new drivers license" have the proponents invited any study and orderly debate. In Georgia, in Alabama, in New Jersey, every move to adopt this "National ID Card" has been run through under cover, often in the hectic, closing days of a legislative session. And (with the notable exception of New York Times columnist William Safire, last Jan. 8) the "Mainstream Media" has been all too happy to go along with any scheme touted as likely to help corner "deadbeat dads" ... blithely declining to cover the issue, dismissing any protests as more paranoia from the kind of "anti-government nuts" who simply can't appreciate the lovely efficiency of it all. So it is now -- not after such a Big Brother measure has already been adopted and we're told "Gee, there's nothing we can do" -- that residents of the remaining states must demand that their legislative and gubernatorial candidates pledge to resist any National ID card. Those seeking more information may contact the Coalition to Repeal the Fingerprint Law, 5446 Peachtree Industrial Boulevard, Suite 133, Atlanta, GA 30341. (Web site http://www.atlantainfoguide/repeal/.) Attorneys wishing legal background on precedents for opposition to this back-door attempt to give us all the electronic equivalent of a tattoo in the ear may want to review the June 22 "letter of objection" to USDOT by attorney Lowell H. "Larry" Becraft, of 209 Lincoln St., Huntsville, AL 35801, which I'm told can be tracked down on the web via http://www.efga.org, or http://www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml. "Our draft legislation says they're not allowed to use (start ital)any(end ital) biometric identifiers" -- thumbprints, retinal scans, whatever -- says Bobby Franklin of Marietta. "We hope if we can prevent them from instituting their program here in Georgia, that resistance will spread. No one wants to be chattel. If we're treated like a number, we're property." Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com "The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction." -- Henry St. George Tucker, in Blackstone's 1768 "Commentaries on the Laws of England." - ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE---- - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "In war you can only be killed once, but in politics, many times." -- Winston Churchill - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #79 **********************************