From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #80 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Sunday, July 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 080 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 02 Jul 1998 17:34:45 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Family doctors asked to point out gun risks Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 02 Jul 1998 00:45:52 -0600 Received: from lists.xmission.com by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id AAA05618; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:35:25 -0600 Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yrd6a-0002QE-00; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:44:28 -0600 Received: from (mail.xmission.com) [198.60.22.22] by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yrd6Y-0002Q9-00; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:44:26 -0600 Received: from xmission.xmission.com [198.60.22.2] (admn) by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #2) id 0yrd6X-0001vg-00; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:44:25 -0600 Received: (from admn@localhost) by xmission.xmission.com (8.8.8/8.7.5) id AAA22637 for utah-firearms@xmission.com; Thu, 2 Jul 1998 00:44:23 -0600 (MDT) X-Authentication-Warning: xmission.xmission.com: admn set sender to utahnet!scott.bergeson using -f Subject: Family doctors asked to point out gun risks From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Message-ID: <8F224F5.01F5008386.uuout@ucs.org> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 98 21:09:00 -0700 Organization: Utah Computer Society Salt Lake City, Ut, USA 801-281-8339 X-Mailreader: PCBoard Version 15.22 X-Mailer: PCBoard/UUOUT Version 1.20 Sender: owner-utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: utah-firearms@lists.xmission.com Apparently-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 16:02:48 -0400 From: Patricia Neill Reply-To: liberty-and-justice@pobox.com To: jdinardo@idt.NET Subject: Family doctors asked to point out gun risks Sounds like they're just making up numbers again. Pretty common tactic among those folk. Good God this is aggravating! If I had a doctor that laid this kind of crap on me, I'd simply change = doctors. COL. HARRY S. BACHSTEIN - ------------------------ NOTE: Will doctors be required to ask patients if they own guns, and if so, will they be required to make a record of this and report it? And will it become a crime to refuse to offer this info to a doctor, or to falsely respond to any questions he may ask about this subject? - ------------------------ Family doctors asked to point out gun risks Copyright * 1998 Scripps Howard WASHINGTON (July 1, 1998 01:04 a.m. EDT http://www.nandotimes.com) -- = Along with shots for mumps and measles and a plot on the growth chart, public health advocates are pressing family doctors and nurses to talk to = patients about the risks posed by guns in their home during routine office visits. An expanded program to promote these discussions was announced Tuesday by Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala and Sarah Brady, chairwoman of the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence. With more than 5,000 children under 18 killed by guns each year, "gun accidents in the home are a major public health concern no less than polio or polluted water," Shalala said. "We need to get the message into every household and to every parent: If you want to keep a gun in your house, = the only way to keep it is unloaded and locked up." Even before the recent rash of fatal school shootings by youngsters using high-powered weapons drew new attention to the problem, a number of physician associations had started urging members to become more active in preventing firearms injury. Noting that one out of five pediatricians nationwide had treated a young gunshot victim, the American Academy of Pediatrics joined with the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence four years ago to distribute brochures and counseling kits to some 20,000 physicians offices nationwide.=20 And the American College of Physicians in January issued a call to its 100,000 members to counsel patients on handgun use and safety and support other efforts to reduce gun injury and violence. But a study published in the Annals of Internal Medicine this year found that while 9 of 10 physicians consider firearm violence to be a major public health issue, fewer than 20 percent said they routinely discuss the risks of firearms ownership and storage with their patients.=20 A spokeswoman for the pediatric organization said no surveys have been = done to determine how many of the doctors who received the original information kits have been using them regularly. But Brady said she knows of "case after case of people all over the = country who have used these ... There's every evidence in the world that it's been used and been used very effectively." While there's some evidence that gun ownership and violence may have = peaked in the past two or three years, gunshot wounds remain the second-leading cause of traumatic death in the U.S., behind only auto crashes. About 40,000 Americans are killed by guns every year. Shalala said health care providers would rather prevent an injury than fight to save a life after a shooting. Despite the time pressures faced by many doctors and other caregivers, "I can't imagine a physician or a nurse or another public health provider in this country not wanting to focus on things that affect kids' lives and families' lives. This doesn't have to = be a lengthy conversation, but an ongoing conversation." Brady said there are an estimated 192 million firearms in the country, including 65 million handguns, and that surveys indicate a quarter of gun owners keep a weapon loaded and ready for use.=20 The risks from such guns extend not just to children, but anyone in the home. Shalala said that for every instance in which a gun is used in a = home to kill in self-defense, 43 family members and acquaintances die in suicides, homicides and accidents. The program unveiled Tuesday is called Steps To Prevent Firearm Injuries = in the Home. Promotional mailings and distribution of the materials is being paid for by the Metropolitan Life Foundation. Besides urging gun safety within the home, the educational materials also caution parents to find out whether guns are kept in homes of their children's friends, and if so, talk to other parents to ensure they're stored safely. Lee Bowman covers health and science for Scripps Howard News Service. He can be reached at bowmanl@shns.com. Copyright 1998 Nando.net - ----------------------- NOTE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only.=20 - ----------------------- COL. HARRY S. BACHSTEIN http://members.aol.com/bach11/adventurer.htm "Man is not my Ultimate Judge." 1998 Polaris News Syndicate ************************************************** NEW! The Colonel has joined STEELHORSE MAGAZINE http://www.steelhorsemag.com - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 98 23:54:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Verification of Colt's donation to Schumer - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 14:18:29 -0400 From: E Pluribus Unum To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network Verification of Colt's donations to Schumer and the Democratic party can be found at www.tray.com/fecinfo It is painfully obvious that Colt is buttering both sides of it's bread. Many law firms, businesses and corporations do the same thing. Play both sides, so someone in the firm always stays on the good side of those in power. Also the gentleman may go to the same synagogue, so it might be considered like a donation to a family member. Dennis Walker: d-walker@juno.com IN THE ARENA! Quis custodiet ipso custodes? - -- ******************************************************** E Pluribus Unum The Central Ohio Patriot Group P.O. Box 791 Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499 Grove City, OH 43123 Meetings: Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse 3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.) http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib eplurib@infinet.com ******************************************************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 98 23:54:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: The Government Has Our Number - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 14:50:25 -0400 From: E Pluribus Unum To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network Source: Wired http://www.wired.com/news/news/politics/story/13441.html The Government Has Our Numbers by Lori Patel 4:00am3.Jul.98.PDT Your banker has it. Your employer has it. Your insurer, the IRS, and, frankly, you can't remember who else has it. So what difference does it make if the US Department of Transportation joins the crowd asking to see your Social Security number? Recently, the department published its intention to require all states to verify Social Security numbers before issuing or renewing drivers' licenses. Depending on who one asks, the significance of this decision can swell or shrink like a top-notch special effect. "Fear of crime and terrorism has caused us to let down our guard against excessive intrusion into the lives of the law abiding. The ease of minor borrowing and the transformation of shopping into recreation has addicted us to credit cards," wrote New York Times columnist William Safire. "Taken together, the fear and the ease make a map of our lives available to cops, crazies, and con men alike." As strategies to combat the technology-fueled growth of database portraiture, Safire recommended that readers "write your local legislator demanding that a Privacy Impact Statement be required before passage of any new law ... [and] resist mightily requests for your Social Security number." Much as Safire rails against it, the drive to collect citizens' Social Security numbers seems past the point of no return. Indeed, while the Department of Transportation may have just published its intention to collect the numbers, the proposed rule was legislated as part of the 1996 Immigration Reform Act. The idea was to make it harder for illegal immigrants to obtain fraudulent licenses, as well as welfare and other benefits available to US citizens. To achieve this goal, the Transportation Department rule would give states until October 2000 to include greater security features on their licenses. States would also be required to sharpen identity checks by verifying the Social Security numbers of applicants. In the past, states collected the numbers -- some even used them as driver's license numbers -- but did not verify their accuracy with the Social Security Administration. Among some observers, the proposed rule is causing a great deal of angst. Critics charge that the rule would create what amounts to a national ID card, which would smooth the way for the US government to profile and monitor its citizens. "What I'm imagining is martial law, in which you can't move from place to place, you can't access your bank account information, can't own a gun because you've been profiled as a deadbeat dad," said Lisa S. Dean, vice president of governance and policy at the conservative Free Congress Foundation. The Department of Transportation denies its database could be used for nefarious purposes and points out that even its own department does not maintain a comprehensive file of US drivers. "There is no file of all drivers," said William Holden, chief of the Driver Registration and Traffic Records division. He explained that the National Driver Registry tracks only problem motorists. "Creating a file of all US drivers would require legislation and cost a substantial sum of money," he said. Holden said he believes the states would be unlikely to agree to such a scheme. The proposed rule is open to commentary until 3 August. But since the rule merely implements legislation that has already passed, there is little doubt that -- unless the legislation is reversed -- some version of the rule will go forward. "We don't have a whole lot of options there," Holden said. While Holden disagreed that the verification plan could enable any sort of Big Brother state, the idea is not quite as far-fetched as it may seem. The American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators, a private organization that works closely with the transportation agency, is laying the groundwork for such a database. The group is planning a two-year study of a comprehensive database, said Linda Lewis, director of public and legislative affairs at the association, which is made up of chief administrators from the United States and Canadian provinces. "Tickets, citations, revocations, suspensions, child-support delinquencies -- all would show up," Lewis said. Lewis offered cold comfort for privacy advocates' fears about the database. "If it's not the Social Security number that ties you to that information, it's some other number. It's just a fact of life," she said. The amount of information bundled to one's Social Security number has grown enormously in recent years while the requirements to give it up freely have increased. It is no longer just the Social Security Administration or the Internal Revenue Service that demands the number. In pursuit of deadbeat parents, for instance, the Department of Health and Human Services collects the Social Security numbers of all new employees in a "new hires" database. But as privacy advocates point out, once information is collected, it can be used for previously unconsidered purposes. "New kinds of data will be collected in ways that weren't in the past, because it can now be brought together with other data," information studies scholar Phil Agre predicts. "Once [the information is] in place, imaginations work overtime about what to do with it and what to start collecting." Under one proposed bill, the Department of Treasury could access the Department of Health's new hires database to collect debt owed to the government. In other words, a file created to protect kids could be used to ensure Uncle Sam collects his cash, too. "I don't go ballistic when I hear the words 'national ID card,'" said Gary Marx, a sociology professor who writes about the implications of information-gathering techniques. "Belgium has a national ID card. It's a joke. It doesn't really mean anything." While Marx rates the new licenses fairly low on the list of privacy issues that should command Americans' attention, he has no question that such databases do create a realistic potential for abuse. "This is not just paranoia," he said. "[During the Holocaust], the percentage of Jews killed in the Netherlands was higher than anywhere. That's because the Dutch were really efficient census takers." - -- ******************************************************** E Pluribus Unum The Central Ohio Patriot Group P.O. Box 791 Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499 Grove City, OH 43123 Meetings: Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse 3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.) http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib eplurib@infinet.com ******************************************************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 98 23:54:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Cultural War for Independence - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 14:26:13 -0400 From: E Pluribus Unum To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network Source: PR Newswire Gun Rights Dean: Right to Bear Arms for Self-Defense On Cutting Edge of Today's Cultural War for Independence WASHINGTON, July 3 /PRNewswire/ -- "The struggle to preserve the right to keep and bear arms is as important today as it was on that first Independence Day in 1776," John Snyder, named "Dean" of gun lobbyists by both The Washington Post and the New York Times, said here this morning. "Few today realize that the proximate cause of our War for Independence was the attempt by British Crown troops to seize Americans' arms and ammunition," continued Snyder, Public Affairs Director of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. "Now, more than two centuries later," he added, "the underlying cause for the developing pro-gun movement in our country is the attempt by modern statist forces to eviscerate the traditional American Second Amendment right of individual law-abiding citizens to keep and bear arms. "This political struggle, the fight to preserve our right to keep and bear arms, our right to protect life and property from criminal attack, our right to self-defense, is at the cutting edge of today's general cultural war to preserve traditional American civil rights and economic values against continuing collectivist assaults. "Among today's political descendants of the late 18th Century gun grabbing Crown government are gun grabbing United Nations bureaucrats, the Clinton-Gore Administration, congressional anti-gun owner hate mongers, and anti-gun owner organizations. "The statists use wedge issues such as fear of violent crime and concern for the safety of children as pretexts for advancing their attacks on the rights of law-abiding citizens. They often are aided and abetted by emotionally convulsed media personalities who have not yet realized that the gun grabbers already have lost out on the intellectual battlefield. The book More Guns -- Less Crime, by Professor John R. Lott, Jr., is just the latest example of the intellectual whipping the gun grabbers have been suffering in recent months and years. "Today, the future belongs to those of us who, like our political forebears on that first Independence Day, cherish freedom and are ready to struggle to maintain it. We shall overcome." Snyder is a former Associate Editor of The American Rifleman, official monthly journal of the National Rifle Association. The Washington Times has characterized him as "a Champion of the right to self-defense." SOURCE Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms CONTACT: John Snyder of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, 202-543-3363 or 703-418-0849 ©1998 PR Newswire. - -- ******************************************************** E Pluribus Unum The Central Ohio Patriot Group P.O. Box 791 Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499 Grove City, OH 43123 Meetings: Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse 3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.) http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib eplurib@infinet.com ******************************************************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 98 23:54:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Computers fired up to check gun sales - ssns required - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- July 1, 1998 Computers fired up to check gun sales Pennsylvania's new system begins today. Crime records are checked on the spot. http://www.phillynews.com:80/inquirer/98/Jul/01/city/GUNS01.htm ASSOCIATED PRESS HARRISBURG -- Pennsylvania State Police officials say the new computerized system to check the criminal backgrounds of people buying handguns, which goes into effect today, is the most comprehensive in the nation. State police expect to conduct more than 1 million background checks for about 4,000 gun dealers on both handguns and long guns by the end of this year. "We'll be working well into the evening tonight to make sure this is ready," Maj. Ronald J. Hackenberg, director of the State Police Bureau of Forensics and Criminal Identification, said yesterday. Those who will be barred from buying guns include anyone convicted of violent felony crimes or of drunken driving three times in a five-year period or anyone with a history of serious mental-health problems. In addition, those who have had a protection-from-abuse order filed against them or who have been convicted of simple assault in relation to a domestic violence incident will be barred. State police expect to reject only about 10 percent of the total requests, Hackenberg said. The data base has stored about 1.5 million criminal records, and no other state has such a comprehensive system, Hackenberg said. The only other state with a similarly vast background-check system is Georgia, but it handles only 90,000 requests per year, he said. On Tuesday, state police operators gave the $3.5 million computer system a test run, answering background-check requests on fictitious names submitted by two participating Harrisburg-area gun dealers. The system resembles a large telemarketing office; 29 phone operators sit in office cubicles at computers and answer up to 46 telephone lines, Hackenberg said. Checks could take two minutes or could last several days. The system is automated, and requires the caller to enter driver's license and Social Security numbers. Clearance is given automatically if the buyer has no criminal record, Hackenberg said. If the computer flags a call, however, it routes it to the state police phone operators for further investigation. Currently, federal law requires handgun buyers to wait five days while background criminal records are checked manually. Local sheriffs send information requests to the state police and the FBI. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Jul 98 23:54:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Your papers, please - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 14:30:28 -0400 From: E Pluribus Unum To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network Source: WorldNetDaily Your papers, please By Joseph Farah The day is coming soon when Americans will be required to carry a nationally approved identification card to get work and satisfy other basic needs of survival. No, I know you haven't seen much on this threat to privacy on the network television news or read about it in the establishment press. Don't let that fact lull you into a false sense of complacency that what I am about to tell you is black-helicopter stuff. In 1996, Congress passed the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act. Nearly everyone rejoiced because they assumed the legislation cracked down, as the name implied, on illegal aliens. Few, including members of Congress, actually bothered to read the bill. One section of that law requires all states to make their driver's licenses comply with strict guidelines of the act. As of Oct. 1, 2000 -- a month before the next presidential election -- the federal government mandates that Social Security numbers be included as the license number. Eventually, the act also requires the cards to include digitized biometric information such as fingerprints, retina scans and DNA prints. The Department of Transportation has already developed elaborate guidelines for the new licenses. Suffice it to say that without them, otherwise law-abiding citizens of the United States will find it next to impossible to buy a gun, get a job, board a plane, vote, cash a check, open a bank account, purchase insurance, receive federal benefits, obtain a loan or receive medical service. And that's just what we can see from here. Remember, when the Social Security card was instituted, and for many years thereafter, use of the number for identification purposes was strictly forbidden. My card still insists it is. Don't count on the 10th Amendment guarantees to save you from this fate, either. Executive Order 13083, issued by Clinton last month, effectively neutered any notions about federalism and states' rights without objection from the cowardly Congress. As I mentioned in a previous column, the executive order pretty much allows the federal government to do what it wants, when it wants, for any reason it wants. There's only one hope of stopping this march to a belated 1984 nightmare world -- and, if past results are any indication of future performance, it isn't much of a hope. Congress still has the power to strike this monster down -- if members can muster the courage, foresight and boldness. That's a big "if." But it's worth a try. The Free Congress Foundation, one of the few activist organizations fighting both the national ID card and Clinton's executive order, is urging people to write and call their representatives and senators. For what it's worth, you can also make your voice heard at the Department of Transportation, which is getting ready to dot the "I's" and cross the "T's" on its plan for the national ID card. All comments must be in writing, are limited to 15 pages and must be received no later than Aug. 3. Two copies of your comments should be sent to Docket No. NHTSA-98-3945, Docket Management Room PL-401, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Nassif Building, 400 Seventh Street, S.W., Washington, D.C. 20590. Be sure to place the docket number on each page of your comments. These bureaucrats will look for any reason to place your missive in the circular file. And, no, they don't accept e-mails. I don't know about you, but I, for one, do not want my kids growing up in a land where they are required to carry national identity papers. That's not what America is about. Wake up your political representatives. Explain to them that, while they are preoccupied with side issues like tobacco taxes, somebody is stealing our country, our heritage of freedom, our legacy of individual rights. More to the point: Tell them to take their national identity card and stick it where the sun don't shine. A daily radio broadcast adaptation of Joseph Farah's commentaries can be heard at http://www.ktkz.com/ © 1998 Western Journalism Center - -- ******************************************************** E Pluribus Unum The Central Ohio Patriot Group P.O. Box 791 Eventline/Voicemail: (614) 823-8499 Grove City, OH 43123 Meetings: Monday Evenings, 7:30pm, Ryan's Steakhouse 3635 W. Dublin-Granville Rd. (just East of Sawmill Rd.) http://www.infinet.com/~eplurib eplurib@infinet.com ******************************************************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 4 Jul 1998 06:38:59 -0700 (PDT) From: jwaldron@halcyon.com Subject: Re: Verification of Colt's donation to Schumer On Fri, 03 Jul 98, scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) wrote: > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 03 Jul 1998 14:18:29 -0400 >From: E Pluribus Unum >To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network > >Verification of Colt's donations to Schumer and the Democratic party can >be found at www.tray.com/fecinfo Colt? or Zilkha? If you want to go after Colt, read Colt CEO(?)/President(?) Ron Stewart's column about user proprietary technology and federal standards for firearm ownership. > >It is painfully obvious that Colt is buttering both sides of it's >bread. Many law firms, businesses and corporations do the same thing. >Play both sides, so someone in the firm always stays on the good side of >those in power. >Also the gentleman may go to the same synagogue, so it might be >considered like a donation to a family member. And Bill Clinton is a Southern Baptist, therefore we can smear all Southern Baptists with the Clinton brush? Hard to decide here whether this is a little mild anti-Semitism or just simple-minded b.s. I would have thought if ANY firearms list was sensitive to religious slurs, it would be the Utah list. Joe W - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 09:53:04 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Where's the publicity? Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Fri, 03 Jul 1998 12:58:43 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id MAA06729; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 12:48:10 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id OAA26577; Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 14:57:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma026537; Fri Jul 3 14:55:36 1998 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980703181305.008d54a0@inet.realresume.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: rlh@recon.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Richard Hartman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Where's the publicity? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Why isn't this getting more publicity? Because there's no gun involved? Apparently being set afire, and burned over 99% of your body until you're unconscious for four days, just isn't nasty or painful enough to make the news. Even a little child molestation doesn't make the story good enough. But if that 13-year-old had waved a toy gun... hoo boy, stop the presses! - ----- CONROE, Texas, July 3 (UPI) - A 13-year-old boy is behind bars on suspicion he poured flammable liquid on an 8-year-old boy and set him = ablaze last week.=20 Montgomery County investigators took the boy into custody Thursday, = and they say he has admitted to attacking Robert Middleton in Splendora, north of Houston, on the victim's eighth birthday.=20 He remains in juvenile detention today awaiting formal charges in the case, and may stay locked up until Monday.=20 The boy suffered third-degree burns over 99 percent of his body.=20 The Houston Chronicle quotes an investigator saying the 13-year-old attacked the boy because he may have seen the older boy molesting a small child in some woods.=20 The Montgomery County sheriff's investigator tells the Chronicle, = ``We do have information that Robert told people he saw (the teen) molesting a child in the woods some time ago.''=20 Montgomery County Sheriff Guy Williams says the case was like a = murder investigation for several days because Middleton was unable to name his assailant.=20 Four days later he regained consciousness and told police who was at the scene at the time.=20 Middleton remains in critical condition, but he continues to improve = at the Shriners Burn Hospital in Galveston after his brush with death. = Doctors have removed a ventilator he was using after he showed he could breathe on his own. Family members are keeping a round-the-clock vigil at his side.=20 Doctors at the hospital say people that badly burned have about a 50 percent chance of survival.=20 They say the boy's ability to survive this long is a good indicator that he may pull through. Still, he faces a long recovery and more than a dozen surgeries, and he will be hospitalized at least 150 days.=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:29:21 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Contributions Received: from legacy.lgcy.com ([209.180.84.51]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:28:11 -0600 Received: from [204.246.130.98] by legacy.lgcy.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id fa691501 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 10:26:58 -0600 Received: from WVCDomain-Message_Server by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us with Novell_GroupWise; Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:28:02 -0600 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:27:47 -0600 From: "David Sagers" To: discussion@derail.org Subject: Fwd: Contributions X-Info: Evaluation version at legacy.lgcy.com X-ListManager: derail@derail.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Your following message has been delivered to the 77 members of the list discussion@derail.org at 10:26:58 on 4 Jul 1998. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you want to see who is donating to candidates see the web site at www.tray.com/fecinfo I looked at LILY FOR CONGRESS, and found some interesting names. =20 I'm interested to see if Jane Fonda donates to Lilly like she donated to = Karen Shepherd a few years ago. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:39:36 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: [Fwd: INDEPENDENCE DAY ALERT] Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Sat, 04 Jul 1998 01:54:55 -0600 Received: from listbox.com by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA07093; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:44:25 -0600 Received: (qmail 2274 invoked by uid 516); 4 Jul 1998 07:53:44 -0000 Delivered-To: rkba-co@majordomo.pobox.com Received: (qmail 2256 invoked from network); 4 Jul 1998 07:53:40 -0000 Received: from mailserv.rockymtn.net (HELO mg1.rockymtn.net) (166.93.205.11) by majordomo.pobox.com with SMTP; 4 Jul 1998 07:53:40 -0000 Received: from rainbow.rmi.net (rainbow [166.93.8.14]) by mg1.rockymtn.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17070 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:53:38 -0600 (MDT) Received: from helmetfish (166-93-57-227.rmi.net [166.93.57.227]) by rainbow.rmi.net (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id BAA23545 for ; Sat, 4 Jul 1998 01:53:00 -0600 (MDT) Message-ID: <359DDF4E.5F0@rmi.net> Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 01:52:46 -0600 From: "Charles 'Chuck' Inston" Organization: Global Neighbourhood Watch, (http://www.rmi.net/~hlmtfish) X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win95; U) To: RKBA-CO List Subject: [Fwd: INDEPENDENCE DAY ALERT] Sender: owner-rkba-co.new@majordomo.pobox.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rkba-co@majordomo.pobox.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Posted to rkba-co by "Charles 'Chuck' Inston" - ----------------------- Chris W. Stark wrote: >=20 > ****JPFO e-mail Alert!**** >=20 > Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc. > Aaron Zelman - Executive Director > 2874 So. Wentworth Ave. > Milwaukee, WI 53207 > Ph. (414) 769-0760 Fax (414) 483-8435 > http://www.JPFO.org > Against-Genocide@JPFO.org >=20 > 07/04/98 > -------- >=20 > INDEPENDENCE DAY ALERT >=20 > On July 4 we commemorate when the Founders declared for Americans > their independence from arbitrary oppressive rule. By the Declaration > of Independence, they affirmed that all men are created equal with > inalienable rights, and that governments are legitimate only when > they derive their powers from the consent of the governed. >=20 > The Founders did not merely debate the matter -- they declared > War against their own (British) government. They were not > rocking-chair patriots; they signed their names below the > following ominous sentence: >=20 > "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm > reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we > mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, > and our sacred Honor." >=20 > The Founders pledged, and many lost, their lives and fortunes > during the Revolutionary War. That struggle created the nation > where we can enjoy the fruits of liberty. >=20 > Toward the cause of liberty, are modern Americans willing to > *mutually pledge* even the cost of pizza and beer? A family of > four spends over $20 at a pizza parlor for dinner. Can the > supporters of liberty pledge $20 to preserve their hard-won > heritage? >=20 > Twenty dollars buys 25 copies of Gran*pa Jack*s Common Sense > -- the booklet that teaches Americans all about the Bill of > Rights. Buy a bundle, hand them out to kids, or leave them on > the coffee table for teens to discover. Go to: >=20 > http://www.jpfo.org/editor.htm >=20 > ....or go to: >=20 > http://www.jpfo.org/jpfobor.htm >=20 > ....for more info. >=20 > Our Founders pledged their lives and fortunes -- surely > we can honor their sacrifice by passing the word to future > generations. There is no better time to declare war on > ignorance of the Bill of Rights! Act now! >=20 > As well, if you havent already, consider becoming a fighting > member of JPFO. To become a JPFO member, go to: >=20 > http://www.jpfo.org/member.htm >=20 > There you will see a printable member application, along with > info on membership. If you wish, you can become a member using > our on-line application as well. Membership IS open to ALL Law > abiding citizens. >=20 > What does the 4th of July mean to you? For our founding fathers, > it meant to "mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, > and our sacred Honor." >=20 > .......and you? >=20 > **************************************************************** > Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) > Chris W. Stark - Director of Electronic Communications > 2874 So. Wentworth Ave. > Milwaukee, WI 53207 > Ph. (414) 769-0760 > Fax (414) 483-8435 > Against-Genocide@JPFO.org >=20 > Visit our Web Page at: http://www.JPFO.org >=20 > MEMBERSHIP IS OPEN TO ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. >=20 > "America's Most Aggressive Defender of Firearms Ownership." > "If you don't support JPFO, then WHY support ANYONE?" > **************************************************************** > Copyright (c) 1998, JPFO > Republication permitted provided this article & attribution > is left intact in its original state. > **************************************************************** >=20 > TO SUBSCRIBE TO OUR E-MAIL ALERTS, send an e-mail to: >=20 > subscribe@JPFO.org >=20 > ...and in the body of the message, type the word "subscribe". > **************************************************************** - --=20 Charles 'Chuck' Inston @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@= @ It behoves every man who values liberty of conscience for himself, to resist invasions of it in the case of others: or their case may, by change of circumstances, become his own.=20 --Thomas Jefferson @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@= @ For Help with Majordomo Commands, please send a message to: Majordomo@majordomo.pobox.com with the word Help in the body of the message - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 04 Jul 98 23:14:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: INDEPENDENCE DAY ALERT - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 04 Jul 1998 10:36:57 -0400 From: E Pluribus Unum To: E Pluribus Unum Email Distribution Network Subject: INDEPENDENCE DAY ALERT ****JPFO e-mail Alert!**** Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership, Inc. Aaron Zelman - Executive Director 2874 So. Wentworth Ave. Milwaukee, WI 53207 Ph. (414) 769-0760 Fax (414) 483-8435 http://www.JPFO.org Against-Genocide@JPFO.org 07/04/98 -------- INDEPENDENCE DAY ALERT On July 4 we commemorate when the Founders declared for Americans their independence from arbitrary oppressive rule. By the Declaration of Independence, they affirmed that all men are created equal with inalienable rights, and that governments are legitimate only when they derive their powers from the consent of the governed. The Founders did not merely debate the matter -- they declared War against their own (British) government. They were not rocking-chair patriots; they signed their names below the following ominous sentence: "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." The Founders pledged, and many lost, their lives and fortunes during the Revolutionary War. That struggle created the nation where we can enjoy the fruits of liberty. Toward the cause of liberty, are modern Americans willing to "mutually pledge" even the cost of pizza and beer? A family of four spends over $20 at a pizza parlor for dinner. Can the supporters of liberty pledge $20 to preserve their hard-won heritage? Twenty dollars buys 25 copies of Gran'pa Jack's Common Sense - -- the booklet that teaches Americans all about the Bill of Rights. Buy a bundle, hand them out to kids, or leave them on the coffee table for teens to discover. Go to: http://www.jpfo.org/editor.htm ....or go to: http://www.jpfo.org/jpfobor.htm ....for more info. Our Founders pledged their lives and fortunes -- surely we can honor their sacrifice by passing the word to future generations. There is no better time to declare war on ignorance of the Bill of Rights! Act now! As well, if you haven't already, consider becoming a fighting member of JPFO. To become a JPFO member, go to: http://www.jpfo.org/member.htm There you will see a printable member application, along with info on membership. If you wish, you can become a member using our on-line application as well. Membership IS open to ALL Law abiding citizens. What does the 4th of July mean to you? For our founding fathers, it meant to "mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." .......and you? **************************************************************** Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) Chris W. Stark - Director of Electronic Communications 2874 So. Wentworth Ave. Milwaukee, WI 53207 Ph. (414) 769-0760 Fax (414) 483-8435 Against-Genocide@JPFO.org Visit our Web Page at: http://www.JPFO.org MEMBERSHIP IS OPEN TO ALL LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. "America's Most Aggressive Defender of Firearms Ownership." "If you don't support JPFO, then WHY support ANYONE?" **************************************************************** Copyright (c) 1998, JPFO Republication permitted provided this article & attribution is left intact in its original state. **************************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE TO OUR E-MAIL ALERTS, send an e-mail to: subscribe@JPFO.org ...and in the body of the message, type the word "subscribe". - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #80 **********************************