From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #82 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Thursday, July 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 082 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 10:40:50 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Trigger Locks and "Other Measures" Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 08 Jul 1998 07:57:49 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA10374; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 07:47:14 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id JAA07129; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:55:31 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 09:55:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma007007; Wed Jul 8 09:54:04 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980708082103.007c07a0@texoma.net> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: joesylvester@texoma.net Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Joe Sylvester To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Trigger Locks and "Other Measures" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline =20 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - - ---- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - - ---- =20 08:18 PM ET 07/07/98 Clinton to back gun-safety measures for children =20 By Randall Mikkelsen WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Clinton on Wednesday will back a proposal to penalize gun owners who let weapons fall into the hands of children, and promote other measures to protect youth from firearms, officials said. ``He's got a package of things,'' White House spokesman Joe Lockhart said. A central element will be Clinton's endorsement of a proposal by Democratic Sen. Richard Durbin of Illinois and Republican Sen. John Chafee of Rhode Island, designed to encourage the use of so-called ``trigger locks'' or other security mechanisms when storing guns. ``If we do not want to see children killed or permanently disabled, we must do something about our insanely easy access to guns,'' Chafee said in a news release about Wednesday's endorsement by Clinton. The proposal would impose penalties on gun owners when juveniles get hold of their guns and use them against another person, show them in a public place, or take one to school. The penalties would not apply when the owner has used a trigger lock or kept the gun in locked storage. They also would not apply where the gun is used in self-defense, or in relation to military service. An aide to Chafee said the proposal was introduced after a flurry of school shootings this year in which evidently disturbed children obtained weapons from their parents. The aide said he hoped the proposal would be included in any broader juvenile justice legislation considered by Congress this year. A government official said another element of the Clinton announcement related to gun tracing, and other measures would also be included. The Durbin-Chafee measure has long been sought by gun-control advocates. But some advocates said Clinton's White House event Wednesday endorsing the proposal will be overshadowed by product-liability legislation moving toward a Senate vote that they said could set back the cause. That legislation, which the White House said Clinton would sign if it reached him in its present form, includes caps on punitive damage awards against small businesses that would include many gun makers. ``Whatever they are going to do in the Rose Garden tomorrow that is good, is going to be dwarfed by signing a bill which would slam the courthouse door to victims of gun violence across America,'' said Kristen Rand of the Violence Policy Center, a group which supports gun control. Two Democratic Senators, Robert Torricelli of New Jersey and Dianne Feinstein of California, unveiled an amendment Tuesday designed to exclude gun manufacturers from any of the pending legal relief. But the White House, working to keep intact a delicate compromise over the overall product-liability bill, is not taking a position on the amendment. ``We're not going to upset the apple cart,'' White House spokesman Barry Toiv said. Joe Waldron, executive director of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, said the secure-storage measure to be endorsed by Clinton would be ineffective and an unfair intrusion on state rights. =20 ^REUTERS@ The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution.=20 ---Doug McKay" =20 Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 10:42:36 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Re: Firearms Owners Protection Act Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 08 Jul 1998 01:40:31 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA10187; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 01:29:58 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id DAA22699; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 03:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 03:38:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma022653; Wed Jul 8 03:38:21 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19980708020619.00794b80@texoma.net> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: joesylvester@texoma.net Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Joe Sylvester To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: Firearms Owners Protection Act X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline At 01:16 AM 7/8/98 -0400, larry ball wrote: >Can somebody explain this Act to me? Can I purchase a long gun in a >state other than mine? > >Larry Ball >lball@inetnebr.com > Go to David Hardy's website. He helped write the thing, plus was the counsel for Sherrif Mack in the Brady lawsuit. (actually the link on Hardy's page takes you to: http://www.indirect.com/www/dhardy/FOPA.html It's long but it tells the whole story of FOPA. Incidently it was the law that did away with showing ID and signing for "pistol" ammunition. I used my military ID to buy .22 shorts way back then pre FOPA. It was also the law that re-allowed purchase of ammunition by mail by non FFLs. It also "theoretically" protects you when transporting firearms through gun unfriendly states or locals. As long as the guns are unloaded and "out of reach" and they are legal to have in both origin and destination states/locals, they aren't supposed to bust you for what would otherwise = be a state/local charge of illegal possesion. I say theoretically becasue = some locals, N.J. for example, sometimes honor the law in breach, at least = until you end up in court. The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution.=20 ---Doug McKay" =20 Joe Sylvester Don't Tread On Me ! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 14:31:09 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: FW: GSL> None dare call it fascism - It's later than you think Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 08 Jul 1998 11:24:43 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA10542; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 11:14:09 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id NAA20201; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 13:22:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma020008; Wed Jul 8 13:19:09 1998 Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: KGrubb@carnival.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: "Grubb, Ken" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FW: GSL> It's later than you think X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline forwarded from GSL Ken Grubb Miami, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: AARC Distributors, Inc. > [SMTP:AARC.DISTRIBUTORS@worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 8:31 PM > To: gsl@listbox.com > Subject: GSL> It's later than you think >=20 > ----------------------------------------- http://GunsSaveLives.com > Copyrighted material contained within this document is used in > compliance with the United States Code, Title 17, Section 107, > "for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching" > =20 None dare call it fascism=20 What if a U.S. administration announced it was violating the Constitution and no one cared? That seems to be what's happening today as President Clinton moves to amass what can only be described as "imperial powers" without as much as a whimper of protest heard in the land.=20 In May, President Clinton issued Executive Order 13083, a frontal assault on 10th Amendment-protected powers of the states and individuals. No one noticed, or cared.=20 Congress allowed it to become law by not lifting a finger. No governors or state legislatures protested. The media didn't even report on the federal power grab.=20 Having gotten away with the cold-blooded, broad daylight murder of one constitutional principle, President Clinton has decided to use his enormous, new-found dictatorial authority more frequently in the final two years of his term. He plans to issue more and more executive orders, beginning as early as today.=20 The first order of business will likely be an executive order promoting more federal control over the health-care needs of federal employees. During that ceremony, Clinton plans to urge Congress to enact his "Patients' Bill of Rights" legislation setting national standards for managed medical care.=20 As top White House aide Paul Begala arrogantly put it: "Stroke of the pen. Law of the land. Kinda cool."=20 Yeah, cool dude. Meet the hip, new face of fascism in America. Whatever it takes to rule, so be it. The Constitution be damned. We've got important public policy reforms to enact. If the Congress won't cooperate, then we'll make the Congress irrelevant -- go over their heads. Mussolini would be proud -- not to mention Jiang Zemin. "He's ready to work with Congress if they work with him," Rahm Emanuel, senior policy adviser to the president, explained. "But if they choose partisanship, he will choose progress." Translation: Unless Congress gets on its knees a la Monica Lewinsky and gives the president everything he wants, he will resort to governing by decree.=20 Is Clinton within his rights as president to use the power of the executive order? There's no question other presidents have abused the practice. But none more than Clinton.=20 Executive orders were originally intended to give presidents rule-making authority over the executive branch -- to allow him to preside as the chief executive officer of the White House and its vast number of employees and departments. Clinton has reinvented the executive order as a form of presidential law-making authority -- something in direct contradiction with the Constitution.=20 In fact, as recently as June 25, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled, in its line-item veto case, that the president of the United States cannot initiate legislation. If followed to its natural conclusion, this ruling would invalidate all executive orders -- past and present.=20 The problem, of course, is that it takes some bold person in Congress, or even at the state government level, to challenge this grotesque usurpation and centralization of power. So far, they're all scurrying away from this issue like rats fleeing a burning Reichstag.=20 What's at stake here? Well, just consider the fact that one of Clinton's executive orders empowers him to declare a national emergency and set up the Federal Emergency Management Agency to direct federal, state and local governments. This provision replicates the executive powers laid down in the 1933 War Powers Act and would allow FEMA to control all communication facilities (including, presumably, WorldNetDaily), power supplies, food supplies, airports, transportation of any kind, seaports, waterways and highways. Congress would not even be able to debate the president's declaration for the first six months of totalitarian rule.=20 The president could implement this draconian plan under "any threat to national security, perceived or real." Do you trust Bill Clinton with that kind of authority? Apparently, the Republican-controlled Congress does. And so does the corporate media establishment. No one is speaking out against the prospect of American fascism -- not even the American Civil Liberties Union.=20 I would just like to remind my "progressive" friends that it was a similar arrangement under which Adolph Hitler suspended the German constitution by presidential decree.=20 Do you really think it can't happen here? Is it inconceivable that America could ever lose its freedom? If the only thing that prevents evil from triumphing is for good men to do nothing, it seems our nation is well on its way down the road to destruction.=20 =20 A daily radio broadcast adaptation of Joseph Farah's commentaries can be heard at http://www.ktkz.com/=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 08:41:18 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: PT Alert (fwd) Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 08 Jul 1998 17:16:57 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA10786; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:06:23 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id TAA13621; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:14:01 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:14:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma013546; Wed Jul 8 19:11:18 1998 Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: pwatson@utdallas.edu Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Paul M Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Fwd: PT Alert (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 16:43:08 -0500 From: Ed Lawson Reply-To: texas-gun-owners@Mailing-List.net To: texas-gun-owners@Mailing-List.net Subject: Fwd: PT Alert Posted to texas-gun-owners by "Ed Lawson" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *********** BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE *********** On 7/8/98, at 2:30 PM, Peaceable Texans Subject: Fwd: Gun Poll (fwd) Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 08 Jul 1998 17:16:57 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA10789; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 17:06:24 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id TAA13685; Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 19:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma013558; Wed Jul 8 19:11:24 1998 Message-Id: <9807082322.0p4d@xpresso.seaslug.org> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: noban@xpresso.seaslug.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: noban@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Gun Poll (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Jul 08, Josh Amos wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows -------------------= - -] We are getting hammered here too http://www.usatoday.com/news/nfront.htm [------------------------- end of forwarded message -----------------------= - -] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------= - - An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand =3D Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy = a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus = Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------= - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:06:46 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Re: FW: Gun Confiscation Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 04:10:53 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id EAA11168; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 04:00:19 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id DAA25581; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:43:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma025446; Thu Jul 9 03:40:29 1998 Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: dugga@pacifier.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: dugga@pacifier.com (Doug Spittler) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Re: FW: Gun Confiscation X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline > >Date: Mon, 6 Jul 1998 08:44:11 -0400 >From: "Grubb, Ken" >To: "'Noban'" >Cc: "'FSSA'" >Subject: FW: Gun Confiscation >Message-ID: > > >forwarded from CEBS > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Charlie Mealy [SMTP:emealy1@tampabay.rr.com] >> Sent: Saturday, July 04, 1998 3:40 PM >> To: cebs@UserHome.com >> Subject: Gun Confiscation >> >> This is the site for the SF Underground (Special Forces). The >> following is a quote from their page, it makes for interesting >> reading. >> >"In the face of the spectre of disarmament of the American public by >military force, the big question now is whether military personnel would >fire on American citizens who resisted. In a survey circulated within >the military last year, it was found that only 20% would follow orders >to fire on Americans during gun seizure raids. On radio talk shows, >military officers stated outright that they would be much more inclined >to fire on superiors who gave such an order." > >> http://www.creative.net/~star/resister.htm This all sounds well and good and reassuring, however let me ask some = questions: How many fedgov agents refused to participate in the deaths of 83 men, women and children at Waco, Texas where the worst penalty for doing so would have been loss of a job? How many militarily indoctrinated young men who have been freshly trained to obey orders would refuse to fire when the penalty for doing so is = death? How many CIVILIANS protested when the Waco debacle was going on, when the penalty for doing so was nil? It's one thing to take some written "survey" in the safety of your = barracks with no pressure applied or consequences to be suffered; it's something else entirely when the hounds catch the scent of blood and the chase commences. Personally, I'd hate to put the results of that "survey" to the test. I'd far rather derail the confiscation scenario. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:07:29 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Elections Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 04:10:52 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id EAA11166; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 04:00:17 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id DAA25614; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 03:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma025454; Thu Jul 9 03:40:33 1998 Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: dugga@pacifier.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: dugga@pacifier.com (Doug Spittler) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Elections X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline >3 of 4 pollsters predict low voter turnout in fall >By Nancy E. Roman >THE WASHINGTON TIMES > > > Voter turnout will hit a record low and Republicans will > retain control of Congress in the fall, predicted three of > four pollsters who convened on Capitol Hill yesterday to talk > politics. > Doc Sweitzer, Democratic media consultant, said he wished > he could be more optimistic, but he predicted day-after-election > headlines would say "no change-low turnout." > Dan Hazelwood, GOP campaign strategist, predicted > Republicans will pick up seats. This appears to be shaping up as an excellent chance for gun owners in general, and members of the NRA, GOA, JPFO, etc. in particular, to do some real good in advancing the agenda of freedom...if they can be somehow motivated to move from their TVs to the polling booths... - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:13:13 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Clinton FOB life expectancy (fwd) Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:00:49 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA11326; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 08:50:14 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id KAA15206; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 10:58:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma015030; Thu Jul 9 10:58:14 1998 Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: pwatson@utdallas.edu Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Paul M Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Clinton FOB life expectancy (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 08 Jul 1998 13:16:15 -0700 From: "Maher, Steve \(SD-EX\)" > CLINTON-WITNESS LIFE EXPECTANCY > HITS ALL TIME LOW >=20 > With the death at age 29 of Little Rock transmission shop owner > Johnny Lawhon, the average life expectancy for witnesses against > Bill Clinton has dropped dramatically. Lawhon, who last year > discovered a Madison Guaranty Savings and Loan cashiers check > made out to Bill Clinton in the trunk of an abandoned car, died in > a car crash early Sunday morning. He becomes the second witness > connected to that evidence to die within a month. The first, former > Madison Guaranty owner James McDougal, was found dead in his jail > cell just three weeks prior to Lawhon's fatal accident. > Prior to Lawhon's death, insurance industry experts had calculated > the average life expectancy for Clinton scandal witnesses at a full > 49.3 years. But given Mr. Lawhon's relative youth, Clinton-witness > actuarial tables have been revised down to a median AOD (age of death) > of just 44.8 years. > That figure may plummet even further, should actuarial experts > decide to include the death of former White House intern Mary Caity > Mahoney, who was shot to death last year at the age of 25. > Given this trend, industry sources say they may begin screening > life insurance candidates for a new risk factor - a past or present, > direct or indirect association with Bill Clinton. Such a risk > factor might be weighed in the manner insurers currently evaluate > those who participate in high-risk activities like skydiving, > motorcycling or heavy smoking. > Carl of Oyster Bay >=20 >=20 Paul Watson pwatson@utdallas.edu Sr.Buyer UTD The University of Texas at Dallas 972-883-2307, fax 972-883-2348 - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 09:21:24 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: An Open Letter to the "Today" Show Received: from vader.thnet.com ([206.98.115.1]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 06:04:14 -0600 Received: from bruce37.thnet.com (bruce37.thnet.com [206.98.115.137]) by vader.thnet.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA20469; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:53:58 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199807091153.GAA20469@vader.thnet.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Distribution" Organization: The Vigo Examiner To: Distribution@vader.thnet.com Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 06:45:10 +0000 Subject: An Open Letter to the "Today" Show Reply-to: Distribution@Vigo-Examiner.com Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline GUEST EDITORIAL An Open Letter to the "Today" Show by COL HARRY S. BACHSTEAN colonel@azstarnet.com Polaris News Syndicate To: Al Roker From: Col. Harry S. Bachstein Subject: Couric - Heston Interview Al, I have no idea how to get e-mail to Ms. Couric, and I would appreciate it if you could pass this on to her. With all due respect (and I have always enjoyed each of you on the "Today" show), I am willing to wager that guns are something completely foreign to Ms. Couric. Thus, knowing little or nothing at all about the subject = matter in conducting her interview of Mr. Heston, she was forced to rely not on matters within her personal knowledge, but upon what she has heard - and that is the propaganda made popular by hysterics who make the rush to judgment every time there is a tragedy involving a firearm. Many lives of innocent citizens have been saved by firearms, but we rarely hear of those cases. Across our great nation, there has been a mass movement among the several states to permit citizens to carry weapons concealed, and as more and more states have been enacting legislation in that respect, crimes of violence have been dramatically and demonstrably reduced (attested to by FBI statistics on violent crimes over each of the last seven years). Permitting citizens to carry concealed has, in fact, been such an overwhelming success that the several states are now expanding that right and extending reciprocity to citizens of other states who have such permits. Frankly, it amazes me how many people are ready to jump on any old bandwagon that comes along in an effort to regulate and legislate the = lives of others. In other words, as long as it doesn't affect them, these people are eager to curtail the rights and freedoms of others to make personal decisions. There are those who want to pass laws forcing me to wear a helmet when I'm driving a motorcycle. I've been riding motorcycles for 41 years and can testify that most helmets seriously obstruct hearing and peripheral = vision, thus increasing the likelihood of a rider becoming involved in an = accident. The absence of a helmet has on more than one occasion enabled me to hear = an oncoming vehicle speeding towards me from behind, and I was able to get = out of the way before I was struck from the rear. There are those who want to make it unlawful for me to use tobacco in any form, and I presume such people are non-smokers. Despite the lessons we have learned from history during the Prohibition Era, there are people who want to make the consumption of alcohol illegal. I presume such people are tee-totallers. And then we have those who are ready to surrender their constitutional right under the Second Amendment to keep and bear arms. I presume these people are not owners of guns - I mean, after all, why would they want to give up something they own? (I realize they own their 2d Amendment Rights, too, but that is too abstract for purposes of this letter. It all too quickly shows how stupid it is to give up and surrender to the government = a thing you own). Now, it's OK with me if there are motorcycle riders who want to wear helmets. It's OK with me if there are people who want to use tobacco. It's OK with me if there are people who want to drink alcoholic beverages. If people want to get tattooed, pierce their ears, pierce their nipples, tongues, lips, nose or genitals - it's OK with me. In fact, if there are people out there who want to eat an asbestos sandwich every afternoon at 3:00 p.m., and wash it down with a gallon of jet fuel, that's OK with me. = I was not placed on this earth to lead their lives or make their decisions for them. It's no secret that there are people who place no value upon their 2nd Amendment guarantee, and that these people are perfectly willing to surrender their right to keep and bear arms. That, in and of itself, is OK with me. See? I'm a pretty easy-going guy. "Live and let live." "Mind your own business." Good words to live by, no? The problem is that those people can't wait to surrender MY constitutional right to keep and bear arms, and I strongly resent such people stepping on my civil rights and making yet another intrusion into my life. To these "gun-grabbers" I say this: If you choose to give up your rights, that's OK with me. Chances are you don't know the first thing about guns = or the responsibilites that go with owning and using them. That makes you dangerous, so we're probably better off if you don't have them. That's = YOUR CHOICE, and only you know whether you are capable of handling a gun = safely. Gun-grabbers tell us that the answer is to pass more laws and make guns illegal. These folks somehow believe that such laws will take guns out of the hands of criminals and make us all "safe." OK, Gun-grabbers. I may not be from Missouri, but you're going to have to SHOW ME that you're right. If you really believe that making it unlawful = to have guns will keep them out of the hands of criminals, I CHALLENGE YOU to put your money where your mouth is. Take the first step. Get rid of YOUR guns (but let me keep mine). Post signs in your front yard, or hang them = in the windows of your home, plainly labelled in bold letters, "GUN-FREE ZONE." In smaller print should appear the following: "Having determined that guns are a danger to themselves and others, and in the exercise of doing that which is best for their community, the occupants of this residence have waived their right to keep and bear arms; this property is declared as a Gun-Free Zone, meaning NO GUNS are on the premises, nor will the occupants of these premises allow any individual to bring firearms = onto the property. Violators will be treated as trespassers and will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law." Now post similar signs at your place of business and in your car. Wear a lapel pin with the international "no" sign, i.e., a red circle with a red slash running from top left to bottom right of the circle, and superimpose this over the likeness of a gun, so people on the street will know you are unarmed and incapable of shooting anyone. And check back with me in six months to let me know how things are going for you. Respectfully, COL. HARRY S. BACHSTEIN http://members.aol.com/bach11/adventurer.htm http://www.steelhorsemag.com / - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= http://www.Vigo-Examiner.com Enjoy a free 90 day trial subscription to The Vigo Examiner. You will receive one to three of our top articles each day. =20 Send your subscription request, and all other communication to Editor@Vigo-Examiner.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 16:14:18 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: FYI: Display at your own risk Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 13:13:38 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id NAA11592; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 13:03:03 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id PAA02307; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 15:10:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma002203; Thu Jul 9 15:07:58 1998 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19980709182812.008dc628@inet.realresume.com> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: rlh@recon.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Richard Hartman To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FYI: Display at your own risk X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline This is hilarious, and goes right to the heart of the anti-gun hypocrisy. I've asked several anti's if they'd be willing to post similar signs, and I've gotten similar responses. The URL is: http://webserv1.startribune.com/cgi-bin/stOnLine/article?thisStory=3D456639= 90 - ----- On the face of it, it's a gesture toward eliminating guns from = American society. But look closer. David Gross, a St. Louis Park lawyer and a longtime gun-rights activist, is offering a pair of stickers to anyone who wants to display them on the doors of their homes. They're free. Just send a self-addressed, stamped envelope to = Gun-Free, 8323 Franklin Av. W., St. Louis Park MN 554426-1914.=20 (One string is attached: He asks that takers promise to display the sticker. He doesn't want to be inundated with phony requests.)=20 He's had no takers so far. Gross is convinced that most people see = the stickers as an advertisement to criminals that those within the house are unarmed and therefore can't defend themselves against intruders. He said = he was inspired to make the stickers by a recent New York Times story that = said "the Presbyterian Church (USA) has passed a resolution calling on the denomination's 2.6 million members to move toward removing handguns and assault weapons from their homes."=20 "I have tried to give them away to everybody who has mentioned = banning guns," he said. Gross said he's often at the Minnesota legislature and = comes into contact with antigun advocates."They say, 'Do you think I'm crazy?' = "=20 Gross said he has had about 500 of the 3-inch by 6-inch vinyl, self-stick stickers made.=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Jul 1998 20:40:27 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: GSL> New House Bill Involves CPSC In Gun Standards Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 09 Jul 1998 20:16:08 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id UAA11929; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 20:05:33 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id WAA25063; Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 9 Jul 1998 22:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma024986; Thu Jul 9 22:11:39 1998 Message-Id: <199807100112.TAA20719@mg1.rockymtn.net> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: davisda@rmi.net Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: Douglas Davis To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: GSL> New House Bill Involves CPSC In Gun Standards X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline >Return-Path: >Delivered-To: gsl@majordomo.pobox.com >From: "R.J.K Sr." <2a.rkba@riverview.net> >To: gsl@listbox.com >Date: Wed, 8 Jul 1998 12:55:03 +0000 >Subject: GSL> New House Bill Involves CPSC In Gun Standards >Sender: owner-gsl@listbox.com >Reply-To: gsl@listbox.com > >----------------------------------------- http://GunsSaveLives.com >New House Bill Involves CPSC In Gun Standards > >Anti-gunners in the House of Representatives introduced legislation on >June 18 intended to make it harder for children to gain access to >guns. > The bill give the Consumer Product Safety Commission authority over > firearms by requiring the CFSC to evaluate technology that would make > guns more "child resistant." It would also require safety locks on > all firearms and prohibit the sale of "assault weapons" to anyone > under 18 years of age. It provides for automatic revocation of an FFL > for a dealer who knowingly sells a gun to a minor, and provides a > fine of up to $10,000 and six months injail for a gunowner who allows > a child access to a loaded gun used in an act ofviolencc. The > legislation also would authorize $25 million to the Injury Prevention > Center at the Centers for Disease Control to set up a program to > track firearm injuries to children. It also would provide grants to > local law enforcement to help them trace guns used injuvenile crime. > >The New Gun Week July 1998 > > >-------------------------- >GunsSaveLives Internet Discussion List > >This list is governed by an acceptable use >policy: http://www.wizard.net/~kc/policy.html >or available upon request. > >To unsubscribe send a message to >majordomo@listbox.com > >with the following line in the body: > >unsubscribe gsl > >GUNSSAVELIVES (GSL) IS A PRIVATE UNMODERATED LIST. >THE OWNER TAKES NO RESPONSIBILTY FOR CONTENT. ALL >RIGHTS RESERVED. > > ****************** Firearms, self-defense, and other information, with LINKS are available at: http://shell.rmi.net/~davisda Latest additions are found in the group NEW with GOA and other alerts under the heading ALERTS. For those without browser capabilities, send [request index.txt] to davisda@rmi.net and an index of the files at this site will be e-mailed to you. Then send [request ] and the requested file will be sent as a message. Various shareware programs are archived at: ftp://shell.rmi.net/pub2/davisda To receive the contents of the FTP site, send [request index.ftp] to davisda@rmi.net ******************** - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #82 **********************************