From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #103 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Friday, September 25 1998 Volume 02 : Number 103 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 17 Sep 98 23:14:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Fwd: OH PLEASE - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Message-ID: <19980918012931.2910.qmail@hotmail.com> X-Originating-IP: [208.194.215.188] From: "Minute Man" To: eagleflt@bignet.net Subject: Fwd: OH PLEASE Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 18:29:31 PDT send replies to this guy at: zld97@ttacs.ttu.edu Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 13:34:52 -0500 (CDT) From: zld97@TTACS.TTU.EDU Subject: OH PLEASE TO THE PEOPLE OF THIS WEBPAGE, YOU CLAIM THAT THE PEOPLE OF THE KORESH GROUP WERE TORTURED BY THE US GOVERNMENT, WHAT PLANET ARE YOU FROM. PART OF THE TRAINING I RECIEVED IN THE MILITARY WAS TO FIGHT FIRES, I HAVE BEEN TO THE NAVAL FIREFIGHTERS SCHOOL AT TREASURE ISLAND, CAL. AND I WATCHED THE FINAL DAY OF THE STANDOFF IN WACO. AND AS PART OF A STUDY, IN A POLITICAL SCIENCE COURSE AT TEXAS TECH, I WILL TELL YOU THAT UNLIKE YOUR PERSICUTION COMPLEX, DAVID KORSH HAD HIS FOLLOWERS START THE FIRE IN THE BUILDING, THE SO-CALLED TANK WAS AT ON END OF THE BUILDING,AND THE FIRE WAS STARTED AT THE OTHER END, ON THE VIDEO TAPE THAT I RECORED STAIGHT FROM CNN AS IT WAS ON THE AIR, IT SHOW A MAN WITH A TORCH RUNNING THROUGH THE COMPOUND. I ALSO HAVE NOT SHED ONE TEAR FOR THE ADULTS THAT DIED AT WACO, THEY MADE THEIR DECISTION TO DIED, WHEN THEY KILLED COPS, YES, THEY THE FOLLOWERS OF KORSH, WERE THE CRIMINALS IN THE EYES OF BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL LAW.THEY KILLED NOT ONLY MEN THAT WERE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, BUT MEN IN GENERAL, HEY MILITIA PEOPLE MURDER IS ILLEGAL, THE CHILDREN OF THE COMPOUND DID NOT HAVE TO DIE, BUT THEIR PARENTS KILLED THEM, NOT THE US GOVERNMENT. I DO NOT LIKE SOME OF THE SLICK WILLI LAWS THAT ARE OUT TRERE, BUT IF YOU FOLKS THINK THAT WE ARE LIVING IN A POLICE STATE, MOVE SOME WHERE ELSE, LEAVE MY COUNTRY ALONE, I HAVE BEEN TO COUNTRIES THAT YOU WOULD HAVE ALREADY BEEN IN JAIL OR SHOT FOR YOUR STUPIDITY. AS FAR AS YOU SENDING OUT MY E-MAIL TO ALL OF THESE PEOPLE. IF MAYBE IT WILL BRING SOME TRUTH TO THEM SO BE IT. I SIR AM A REAL AMERICAN, NOT AN IDIOT THAT JUST SCREAMS AND SHOUTS THAT BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING. RUN FOR CONGRESS AND CHANGE THE LAWS. DON'T BITCH. JEFF CORNING - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 07:56:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: NICS applies on REPAIRS - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 11:10:04 GMT From: napfn@net-link.net To: Liberty and Justice , Ignition Point , PIN , PRN Subject: NICS applies on REPAIRS Talked with the owner of my friendly local gun shop yesterday: 1. NICS applies on repairs. Drop it off. Have a new scope and rings mounted, bore-sight. Pick it up? No. You must pass NICS first and pay the tax. 2. Data: NICS input includes your name, driver's lic no, social security number, address and the make and serial number off your piece. They need to run a check for stolen pieces. Observation: Every piece that you have repaired will be entered into their data base in addition to new pieces sold beginning 1DEC1998. - -- Note: If I were working for the enemy on this, I would apply this to ammo also: To buy ammo I would require of you the make, model, and s/n of the piece that the ammo would be for. - -- North American Patriots Free Network www.net-link.net/~napfn/homepage.htm "Righteousness through Communications" ~~~~~Pastor Mike Acker~~~~~ - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 20:48:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Long Guns - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Message-ID: <005c01bde36c$ec736300$ced7c2d0@pbcustomer> From: "Lenox & Sherry Bowman" To: "Pat Young" , "Carston Seales" , "Craig Mortz" , "Brett Bielawski" , "Rich Schneider" , "Don Taylor" , "Dan Feeney" , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , "Chuck Buzzy" , "ISHOOTBACK" , "Jerry Bowman" Subject: Long Guns Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 21:29:09 -0400 Anyone who has (or knows someone who has) been ticketed for leaning a firearm against a vehicle, please contact me immediately or have them contact me immediately. This research is for legislative purposes and is very important. Phone: (810) 254-2493 or Email lenoxb@flash.net Thanks, BB Lenox Bowman - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 20:48:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Massachusetts' gun-records database. 1/2 http://www.govtech.net/gtmag/1998/sept/jandt/jandt.shtm September 98 - Gun Records in a Rat's Nest Gun sale records move from the basement into CD storage. By Raymond Dussault Contributing Editor SOLUTION SUMMARY PROBLEM/SITUATION: Inefficient system for storing and maintaining gun-license records. SOLUTION: Massachusetts' gun-records database. JURISDICTION: Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety, Framingham, Mass., Police Dept. CONTACT: Charles.E.McDonald@state.ma.us Charles E. McDonald, communications director, Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety, 617/727-7775 x507. Lt. Wayne McCarthy, Framingham, Mass., Police Dept., 508/620-4906. Kathleen O'Toole, Massachusetts secretary of public safety, 617/727-7775 x522. O'Toole Named to Important Commission Kathleen O'Toole started her law enforcement career in 1979 as a uniformed patrol officer working the streets for the Boston Police Department. In less than two decades, O'Toole worked her way up to being Massachusetts' secretary of public safety, responsible for the everyday management of over 20 agencies, including the Massachusetts State Police, the Department of Corrections and the Parole Board. She has been on the job since 1994 and, in that relatively short period, has built a reputation as a forward-thinking administrator committed to using technology to make police work easier and more efficient. She has been the driving force behind Massachusetts' single-inquiry system, which makes outstanding warrants, restraining orders, probation records, sex-offender status and other data available to officers at the touch of a computer key. As of January, 750,000 gun sale records were added to the single-inquiry system. Her success, it seems, has brought worldwide attention. After announcing, in May, that she would leave the top cop's job to take over as head of Boston College's (her alma mater) alumni association, she received one of those offers that are tough to refuse. As part of the Good Friday peace accords for Northern Ireland, the government is establishing an independent Commission on Policing for the troubled region. On June 3, Northern Ireland Secretary Marjorie Mowlam named O'Toole to the important commission. "Having begun her career in the Boston Police Department, O'Toole is now secretary for public safety and has vast experience in the law enforcement field. There is no questioning her knowledge of policing," Mowlam said in announcing the appointment. Gun Records in a Rat's Nest Massachusetts' gun sale records were once stacked in bursting cardboard boxes. Rats and pigeons turned reams of data into nests while felons and people who had slipped into psychosis held gun licenses issued years before they stumbled off a mental edge or committed a crime. Now turn the dial on the time machine and move out of the dark ages -- 750,000 gun sale records are out of the busted boxes and loaded on to compact disks, retrievable at the touch of a computer key. "The records, if you can believe it, really were out in the state police headquarters in Boston, stacked floor to ceiling. They were full of rodents, bugs, pigeon nests and asbestos," said Kathleen O'Toole, Massachusetts secretary of public safety. "Before we could scan the records, we had to have them cleaned." So that is what staff did, putting in thousands of hours cleaning and scanning the records to create an easily accessible gun-record database. It cost $700,000, but the work has paid generous returns on the time and money invested. Digital Dream The system came online in January, and a paper nightmare has been turned into a digital dream. "Before the disk, a single records search took 74 days and cost 5,600 dollars in staff time. Now we've trimmed that down to seconds," explained O'Toole. "It's a big difference: less than 30 seconds and a cost of about 90 cents per search." Even more important, though, is the law enforcement work the system has made possible. Before the records were digitized, yanking a gun permit was a case-by-case decision; today, felons and domestic-violence perpetrators are being scooped up with greater ease, and their guns sold off or confiscated by the thousands. Within days of going online, the system had identified 17,546 individuals who had gun licenses but shouldn't. Of that group, 2,862 of them were wanted on active felony warrants; another 3,923 were identified as individuals with a history of domestic violence and active restraining orders against them. The word went out to law enforcement agencies across the commonwealth and, so far, 5,200 firearms licenses have been revoked. "Firearms identification (FID) cards are issued to be good for a lifetime; other handgun carry permits are renewable every few years. In between, I didn't really know what you were doing unless you happened to do it here in town," explained Lt. Wayne McCarthy, with the Framingham, Mass., Police Department. "Until the system came online you could commit a crime out of town, and I would probably never know I needed to yank the license. If I issued you an FID card at age 22, you could be a goddamned nut by the time you're 42, and I wouldn't know. Now, we are getting criminal and other pertinent information on a regular basis. Soon, we will be able to access it instantly." There are no dramatic stories to tell yet -- no lives that were saved in the nick of time -- but, according to some, the proof of success may be in the stories cops don't have to tell. "It is hard to measure the success of the system in terms of crimes prevented. If I don't pull a license, and the guy shoots someone, it will be in all the papers," said McCarthy. "But if I take the gun, nothing happens. That is how this system shows its success -- in the stories that don't have to be told." [ Continued In Next Message... ] - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Sep 98 20:48:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Massachusetts' gun-records database. 2/2 Information Loophole According to McCarthy, despite all of the benefits of the new database, police are still feeling the inefficiencies of the old system. The FID card allowed you to purchase as many guns as you wanted, but it didn't track the number you purchased; the owner was registered, the guns were not. If a name pops up on McCarthy's computer screen as a current felon or someone with a restraining order against them, he will start the process of revoking their gun license. Usually, that means sending a registered letter ordering the individual to come to the station and turn in their guns. Surprisingly, most people respond, and the local departments will even hold the weapons to facilitate a sale to a legitimate gun dealer. If the individual doesn't come in on his own, the police execute a search warrant to confiscate the guns. It's in these situations when the old system's weakness is exposed: Cops just don't know how many guns that individual owns. "If they bring in a couple rifles and say, 'Here you go; here are my guns,' I have no way of knowing if he has a whole arsenal still hiding in his closet," McCarthy said. All the old records are in the system now, but they have data gaps due to the nature of the original data. However, if you purchase a gun in Massachusetts today, the information -- including specific gun information -- is collected on a special, easily scanable form. Within 24 hours the information is entered into the system, keeping the data continuously updated and accessible to officers around the clock. That, according to O'Toole, was Phase Two; Phase One was creating the database, and now Phase Three is on the way. "I want gun dealers to enter their information directly into a terminal at the time of purchase. That way, they know right off if someone can even purchase a gun, and police departments will know instantly if a local resident has. The next step is flipping the switch to make the system accessible from every police station and the laptop computers of officers in the field. That way, if an officer is conducting a traffic stop, they will know the gun ownership history of the car's registered owner," explained O'Toole. "Police work today is a far cry from what it was back when I was on patrol. I spent 30 percent of my time in the station filling out paperwork. My opinion is that officers should only have to return to the station to drop off prisoners, and technology can help make that possible. That means more actual police man-hours in the field, and that means better service for the community." Ray Dussault lvetowrite@aol.com is a Sacramento, Calif.-based writer. Copyright 1996, 1997, 1998. Government Technology. All Rights Reserved. Questions or Comments? webmaster@govtech.net - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:29:21 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: LORENA BOBBITT for White House Intern Bold Red White and Blue Bumper Stickers Get yours today - only $3 $2.50 for each additional bumper sticker SYNERGY PO Box 901272 Sandy, Utah 84090-1272 - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 11:42:38 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Exicite/Harris Poll Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:13:55 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA19651; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 10:01:53 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id MAA07417; Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:12:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma007217; Wed Sep 23 12:12:07 1998 Message-Id: <36090A03.46FF@tidalwave.net> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: globallaw@tidalwave.net Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: "Richard Vaughan, Esq." To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Exicite/Harris Poll X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Results from Harris Online Poll - swing by and add a nail to Clinton's coffin. Do You Think Clinton Can Remain Effective if He Serves out His Term? yes -- he's a strong leader, this scandal won't change that 38% =3D> 2880 votes=20 no -- Starr's investigation has humiliated Clinton and has undermined his authority and credibility 54% =3D> 4090 votes=20 unsure -- it will take time to see if the scandal "sticks" to Clinton or if it will fade from the people's minds 8% =3D> 597 votes=20 Current Vote Tally: 7567 http://nt.excite.com/poll/ - --=20 Vote for Lorean Bobbitt for White House Intern! - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:28:38 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress! Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the West Gun = Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the Salt Palace Convention = Center. One or two volunteers are needed for Saturday September 26 also. This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives that gun = owners care about what happens in Washington. You need not be a resident = of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer. If you are interested, please = call Darren Jones at 262-9324 - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:51:26 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: CORRECTION Help Support a Second Amendment Congress! Sorry for the confusion this has been re-sent with the correct telephone = number. The following was sent to utah-firearms-digest@xmission.com=20 Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the West Gun = Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the Salt Palace Convention = Center. One or two volunteers are needed for Saturday September 26 also. This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives that gun = owners care about what happens in Washington. You need not be a resident = of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer. If you are interested, please = call Darren Jones at 263-9324 - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:06:49 -0600 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: Re: Fwd: CORRECTION Help Support a Second Amendment Congress! I just called the Cook 98 office and asked them to send me a list of pro-gun legislation Cook has sponsored or co-sponsored so I can make an informed decision about whether or not to support him. I told "Carolyn" that if Cook was really pro-gun I wanted to support him. If he isn't, maybe the gunshow isn't the best place to campaign. She said he was "better than his opponent, but maybe not good enough for you," and promised to fax over the list. If it arrives, I'll pass along whatever info I can. I, for one, am tired of voting for the "evil of two lessers" and will almost certainly vote for Libertarian Brian Swim this time around. On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, "David Sagers" posted: >Sorry for the confusion this has been re-sent with the correct telephone = >number. > >The following was sent to utah-firearms-digest@xmission.com=20 > > >Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress > >Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the West Gun = >Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the Salt Palace Convention = >Center. One or two volunteers are needed for Saturday September 26 also. > >This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives that gun = >owners care about what happens in Washington. You need not be a resident = >of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer. If you are interested, please = >call Darren Jones at 263-9324 > > >- > > - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American .. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People." -- Tench Coxe - 1788. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 14:06:49 -0600 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: Re: Fwd: CORRECTION Help Support a Second Amendment Congress! I just called the Cook 98 office and asked them to send me a list of pro-gun legislation Cook has sponsored or co-sponsored so I can make an informed decision about whether or not to support him. I told "Carolyn" that if Cook was really pro-gun I wanted to support him. If he isn't, maybe the gunshow isn't the best place to campaign. She said he was "better than his opponent, but maybe not good enough for you," and promised to fax over the list. If it arrives, I'll pass along whatever info I can. I, for one, am tired of voting for the "evil of two lessers" and will almost certainly vote for Libertarian Brian Swim this time around. On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, "David Sagers" posted: >Sorry for the confusion this has been re-sent with the correct telephone = >number. > >The following was sent to utah-firearms-digest@xmission.com=20 > > >Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress > >Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the West Gun = >Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the Salt Palace Convention = >Center. One or two volunteers are needed for Saturday September 26 also. > >This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives that gun = >owners care about what happens in Washington. You need not be a resident = >of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer. If you are interested, please = >call Darren Jones at 263-9324 > > >- > > - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American .. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People." -- Tench Coxe - 1788. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:56:29 -0600 From: Will Thompson Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress! > > Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress > > Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the > West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the > Salt Palace Convention Center. One or two volunteers are needed > for Saturday September 26 also. > > This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives > that gun owners care about what happens in Washington. You need > not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer. If you > are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324 > > - Hi FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd. Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been disconnected, with no other information available. I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it. Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an "unknown traitor" in my book. But then, I don't believe that the "system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a backstabbing punk. Sorry if that offends anyone. Will - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:56:29 -0600 From: Will Thompson Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress! > > Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress > > Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the > West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the > Salt Palace Convention Center. One or two volunteers are needed > for Saturday September 26 also. > > This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives > that gun owners care about what happens in Washington. You need > not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer. If you > are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324 > > - Hi FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd. Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been disconnected, with no other information available. I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it. Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an "unknown traitor" in my book. But then, I don't believe that the "system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a backstabbing punk. Sorry if that offends anyone. Will - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:56:29 -0600 From: Will Thompson Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress! > > Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress > > Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the > West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the > Salt Palace Convention Center. One or two volunteers are needed > for Saturday September 26 also. > > This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives > that gun owners care about what happens in Washington. You need > not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer. If you > are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324 > > - Hi FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd. Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been disconnected, with no other information available. I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it. Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an "unknown traitor" in my book. But then, I don't believe that the "system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a backstabbing punk. Sorry if that offends anyone. Will - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:56:29 -0600 From: Will Thompson Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress! > > Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress > > Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the > West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the > Salt Palace Convention Center. One or two volunteers are needed > for Saturday September 26 also. > > This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives > that gun owners care about what happens in Washington. You need > not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer. If you > are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324 > > - Hi FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd. Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been disconnected, with no other information available. I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it. Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an "unknown traitor" in my book. But then, I don't believe that the "system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a backstabbing punk. Sorry if that offends anyone. Will - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:27:31 -0600 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress! Well spoken Will. Chad (just lost last name) and I went to talk to Merrill last year about a very simple bill to require federal facilities to "check" legally carried weapons so citizens would not be forced to leave them in a car (or at home if they had walked or ridden mass transit) when they had business with their government. He wasn't real interested in sponsoring anything and if memory serves has failed to even co-sponsor most pro-gun bills. I won't vote for Lily. But Merrill is not getting any help from me until he starts acting like the gun vote matters to him. On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Will Thompson posted: >> >> Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress >> >> Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the >> West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the >> Salt Palace Convention Center. One or two volunteers are needed >> for Saturday September 26 also. >> >> This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives >> that gun owners care about what happens in Washington. You need >> not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer. If you >> are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324 >> >> - >Hi > >FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had >indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd. > >Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been >disconnected, with no other information available. > >I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those >of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't >read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it. > >Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an >"unknown traitor" in my book. But then, I don't believe that the >"system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the >devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a >backstabbing punk. Sorry if that offends anyone. > >Will > - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouths of labor the bread it has earned -- this is the sum of good government." -- Thomas Jefferson - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 13:27:31 -0600 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress! Well spoken Will. Chad (just lost last name) and I went to talk to Merrill last year about a very simple bill to require federal facilities to "check" legally carried weapons so citizens would not be forced to leave them in a car (or at home if they had walked or ridden mass transit) when they had business with their government. He wasn't real interested in sponsoring anything and if memory serves has failed to even co-sponsor most pro-gun bills. I won't vote for Lily. But Merrill is not getting any help from me until he starts acting like the gun vote matters to him. On Wed, 23 Sep 1998, Will Thompson posted: >> >> Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress >> >> Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the >> West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the >> Salt Palace Convention Center. One or two volunteers are needed >> for Saturday September 26 also. >> >> This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives >> that gun owners care about what happens in Washington. You need >> not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer. If you >> are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324 >> >> - >Hi > >FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had >indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd. > >Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been >disconnected, with no other information available. > >I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those >of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't >read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it. > >Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an >"unknown traitor" in my book. But then, I don't believe that the >"system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the >devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a >backstabbing punk. Sorry if that offends anyone. > >Will > - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "A wise and frugal government which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouths of labor the bread it has earned -- this is the sum of good government." -- Thomas Jefferson - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 12:56:29 -0600 From: Will Thompson Subject: Re: Fwd: Help Support a Second Amendment Congress! > > Help is needed to support a pro-Second Amendment Congress > > Volunteers are needed to man a table at the Crossroads of the > West Gun Show for Merrill Cook on Sunday September 27 at the > Salt Palace Convention Center. One or two volunteers are needed > for Saturday September 26 also. > > This is one of the best ways to show our elected representatives > that gun owners care about what happens in Washington. You need > not be a resident of Merrill Cooks district to volunteer. If you > are interested, please call Darren Jones at 262-9324 > > - Hi FYI...I just called 262-9324 to ask Mr. Jones if Merrill Cook had indeed 'suffered' a change of heart toward gun owners and the 2nd. Much like Merrill's support for the 2nd, this number has been disconnected, with no other information available. I went to a town meeting where the "Honorable" Rep. Cook told those of us present that we were/are extremists just because we don't read the 2nd the same way that Sarah Brady reads it. Lily would be a better known enemy than Merrill would be as an "unknown traitor" in my book. But then, I don't believe that the "system' can produce an honest candidate and would rather know the devil I'm dealing with rather than invest hope and effort in a backstabbing punk. Sorry if that offends anyone. Will - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Sep 1998 07:44:32 -0600 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: [righter@therighter.com: Congressman Merrill Cook on Lautenberg] Forwarded by request of Sarah Thompson. Wonder if CongCook favors revoking the right to worhsip, own property, travel, or anything besides RKBA so long as notice is given? - ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE---- X-Sender: righter@aros.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:32:20 -0600 To: chardy@es.com From: "S. Thompson" Subject: Congressman Merrill Cook on Lautenberg Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Length: 2397 Hi Charles! Would you be kind enough to post the following to utah-firearms? Thanks! Sarah I received the following letter from freshman Congressman Merrill Cook today. Rep. Cook started out being mostly anti-gun, so this IS progress for him. However, it appears that he still could use some education, particularly with respect to the Constitution which he took an oath to uphold. Pay particular attention to the last paragraph. Sarah Merrill Cook 2nd District, Utah 1431 Longworth House Office Building Washington, D.C. 20515 Phone: (202) 225-3011 Fax: (202) 225-5638 125 South State Street, Suite 2311 SLC, Ut. 84138 Phone: (801) 524-4394 Fax: (801) 524-5994 Congress of the United States House of Representatives September 25, 1997 Ms. Sarah Thompson Dear Ms. Thompson: Thank you for contacting my office with your support to overturn the Lautenberg Amendment. I cannot support the Lautenberg Amendment as it was passed because it is retroactive in its application. I believe making new laws retroactive is wrong and directly violates the Constitution. I fully support the right to own a gun, but only if it is used in a responsible and legal manner. It is often unfortunately true that having a gun in a home where domestic violence occurs increases the chances that the gun will be used, often with tragic and preventable consequences. People who believe violence is the answer to family disputes deserve to be deprived of the means of inflicting harm. If a person receives prior notice that any future convictions for misdemeanors related to domestic violence will result in his gun being taken, and he nevertheless continues to commit acts of domestic violence, I believe it is not unreasonable to take his guns away. There is simply no excuse for assaulting one's family members. If a person does so even after having been warned, then he has proven he cannot act responsibly, and the family should be protected from the potential danger created by guns in the home. I would also hope that he would learn to solve his problems not by further violence but by obtaining counseling from his church or a professional counselor. I believe the right to bear arms is an important constitutional right. Like all freedoms and rights, however, it is not unlimited and must be used responsibly. Sincerely, Merrill Cook Member of Congress MC/msm - ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE---- - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American .. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People." -- Tench Coxe - 1788. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Sep 1998 11:10:39 -0600 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: [Vin_Suprynowicz@lvrj.com: Sept. 30 column - mountain lions] - ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE---- FROM MOUNTAIN MEDIA FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE DATED SEPT. 30, 1998 THE LIBERTARIAN, By Vin Suprynowicz Out of balance In recent years, mountain lions have been padding into suburban back yards in California, hauling off family pets, and terrifying the mothers of small children. In a couple of cases, lone adult humans have actually been attacked and killed by the highly efficient predators, in parks or recreation areas where Californians are no longer allowed to carry firearms. Now, even wildlife biologists are worrying that predation by mountain lions that suddenly overrun their established ranges may endanger the dramatic and welcome comeback of another previously endangered species -- the bighorn sheep. What's going on? Often blamed for the increasing frequency of human-cat contact is suburban sprawl. Of course that's a factor. But more importantly, a misguided 1990 California ballot initiative banned all hunting of the cougar in that state. It's now illegal to kill a mountain lion unless it directly threatens people or livestock. Even then, you're likely to do more time than O.J. Simpson. "They have no vision of conservation," complains biologist John Wehausen, a cougar expert at the University of California's Mountain Research Station, referring to those who promoted the 1990 initiative. "We are concerned with habitat preservation and maintaining rich biodiversity, but they're concerned with the life of a particular animal in a particular place," Mr. Wehausen continues. "They essentially reject science." Precisely. No one wants to see either the big cats or the wild sheep driven to extinction. They're both vital parts of our wild heritage. But they are just that -- wild. The idea that nature lovers can or should walk peacefully, shoulder to shoulder with these deadly predators, is the kind of fantasy that shouldn't even be taught to children. California wildlife officers lecture elementary school classes these days on what the children should do if they encounter a lion: Don't run, which will only draw a charge. Instead, stand tall, shout and wave your arms. Passable advice as a last resort, since no child is likely to outrun or outclimb one of these cats. But how about starting with: "Don't go into cat country without an adult, and make sure that adult is carrying at least a medium-bore firearm full of soft-points. If you see a mountain lion stalking you or poised to spring, shout, 'Daddy, Mommy, shoot the cat!' " Environmental absolutism is a far cry from a true understanding of the science of ecology, and is bound to have bizarre and unintended consequences. Ecology is the study of the way all the parts of a biological system fit together. Though it may not make for fuzzy, heart-warming cartoon shows, such systems inevitably include predation, and often a necessary culling role for man the hunter (we keep forgetting that Nature put that creature here, too) -- especially where such other top predators as the grizzly are long gone. The solution is not to take away the power of the referendum, but rather to better educate the discretion of the populace. The more detailed our understanding of a complex ecosystem, the more we are likely to abandon the hubris which ever led us to believe we could fine-tune every aspect of nature to suit our romanticized wishes, "preserving" at a randomly-selected moment in geologic time a biological status quo which Nature herself has placed in a state of constant change. Leaving a place for wildlife is an estimable goal. Once we are rid of the warping of land uses caused by the dual tyrannies of the property tax and "government land ownership," there's no reason private entrepreneurs can't buy up and preserve vast wilderness areas for the enjoyment of hikers, hunters, birdwatchers ... anyone who will pay the freight. But (in the meantime) modest, sensible wildlife management is never likely to succeed, so long as it is based on popular votes to determine which animals look more cuddly. Vin Suprynowicz is the assistant editorial page editor of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. Readers may contact him via e-mail at vin@lvrj.com. The web site for the Suprynowicz column is at http://www.nguworld.com/vindex/. The column is syndicated in the United States and Canada via Mountain Media Syndications, P.O. Box 4422, Las Vegas Nev. 89127. *** Vin Suprynowicz, vin@lvrj.com Education rears disciples, imitators, and routinists, not pioneers of new ideas and creative geniuses. The schools are not nurseries of progress and improvement, but conservatories of tradition and unvarying modes of thought. -- Ludwig von Mises The most difficult struggle of all is the one within ourselves. Let us not get accustomed and adjusted to these conditions. The one who adjusts ceases to discriminate between good and evil. He becomes a slave in body and soul. Whatever may happen to you, remember always: Don't adjust! Revolt against the reality! -- Mordechai Anielewicz, Warsaw, 1943 * * * - ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE---- - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American .. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People." -- Tench Coxe - 1788. - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #103 ***********************************