From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #107 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Monday, October 26 1998 Volume 02 : Number 107 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 16 Oct 98 07:56:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Re: Agents shut off rural post office - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 15:16:41 -0400 From: Patricia Neill To: jdinardo@idt.NET Subject: Agents shut off rural post office And here's another story of our BATF heroes .... times are dark. - ---begin forwarded message--- Agents shut off rural post office The Red Bluff Daily News June 11, 1997 Marsha Dorgan & Bryon Burruss Some Paynes Creek residents will have to start making the trek to Red Bluff to get their mail. The U.S. Postal Police Tuesday afternoon temporarily shut down the post office at the Paynes Creek Store. ...Postal authorities are calling it an administrative investigation and audit and have been closed-mouth when it comes to giving reasons for the closure. "I cannot say anything more than this is an administrative shutdown," said postal spokesman Gus Ruiz in San Francisco... Paynes Creek Store owner, school board president and post office operator, Monte Manwill, believes the shut down stems from accusations he is opening some of the mail. "I got some complaints accusing me of opening people's mail," Manwill said. "It's a lie. I wouldn't do that. I have never done that. If a letter is open, it was that way when it got to the post office." Jennifer Ginn, treasurer of the Plum Valley Parents - a group of parents of Paynes Creek school children - sent mail she suspected of having been opened prior to delivery to postal inspector Patricia Glaude in Sacramento, Ginn told the Daily News. She wanted Glaude to check paper inside the envelope for fingerprints...Postal police arrived early Tuesday morning, said Ginn, and removed the postal boxes to the Paynes Creek community center for inspection. "There were all these guys in dark suits out here with rifles guarding the place," said Ginn. "They were serious." "Something has to be done immediately to reestablish mail service to box holders. It's about a 40-mile trip for them to Red Bluff,"... And now for the rest of the story... Monte Manwill is a former Marine, a huge man somewhere past 50, who also is a licensed gun dealer. He is not a man who wears his patriotism on his sleeve, but he is a constituionalist all the way. The agents that sealed off the area were carrying automatic weapons when they cordoned off the town. They entered the store looking for illegal weapons. They were BATF, but they did not have local police with them on their raid. No charges were ever filed, no irregularities were found in Manwill's record keeping, and the post office boxes were returned. Even though Monte didn't put a .45 caliber pistol in his mouth and commit suicide, he did get the message. Three months later he sold the Paynes Creek Store and moved out of state into retirement. Oh yes, he was politically active in the county and had made enemies of an extremely liberal county supervisor, who is also the chairperson of the Tehama County Democratic Party Central Committee. This same chairperson is also friends with U.S. Representative, Vic Fazio, (dem. Sacramento), and has an attorney husband who "studied" radical sociology in East Germany during the 1970's. One can assume that the tactics of intimidation were taught in Communist East Germany. Now they are being practised here. Posted by: redman () * 10/14/98 16:10:29 PDT - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 98 22:31:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Taft Update - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: MikePiet@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 13:34:48 EDT To: kemp@sportsmen.net Cc: pi@involved.com, mam-submit@black-helicopter.psychetect.com, fpe@egroups.com From IP. Mike P Source: Bakersfield Californian http://www.bakersfield.com/bak/i--1303723766.asp Taft man gets independent autopsy Filed: October 14, 1998 By STEVE E. SWENSON Californian staff writer e-mail: sswenson@bakersfield.com An independent autopsy conducted Wednesday morning on the body of Taft gun shop owner Darryl Howell confirmed he was shot in the mouth, "but it left a lot of unanswered questions," an attorney for Howell's family said. Howell's death Oct. 7, reportedly from a self-inflicted gunshot to his head - followed by three shots in his side fired by a Taft police officer reportedly to protect a federal agent - has raised suspicion among people who regarded Howell as a law-abiding citizen. That's why Howell's son, Jeremiah "Bucky" Howell, 21, and daughter, Judy Howell, 24, hired attorney James L. Faulkner to conduct an independent review of their father's death. Faulkner responded by securing an order Wednesday from Kern County Superior Court Judge Lee Felice to obtain investigation reports, photographs and other information completed before Oct. 20 about the events leading to the attempt to arrest Howell on weapons violations and the circumstances of his death. Faulkner declined to identify the out-of-town pathologist he hired to conduct the autopsy, or to elaborate on the questions raised by the head wound. The only reports publicly released so far are from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms that detail a three-year investigation - complete with tape-recorded conversations and surveillance - of Howell selling two illegal machine guns and two handguns without the required paperwork to a confidential informant. The reports say Howell used the code name "T-shirt" to refer to Sten machine guns that he sold to the informant for $800 the first time and $750 the second time; and that Howell sold a Smith and Wesson Model 940 Centennial 9mm handgun for $350 and a European American Arms Witness .45-caliber handgun for $475 in transactions without paperwork or the required waiting period. Those reports attached to federal warrants in U.S. District Court, Fresno, are at odds with friends and relatives of Howell, who said he always "went by the book" in their gun transactions. Supporters of Howell also doubt that Howell would ever resist arrest or try to kill himself. His aunt, Darlene Jenkins, said someone close to Howell committed suicide 15 years ago and Howell "told his family he would never do that." She added, "If he did put it (the gun) in his mouth, he had help putting it in there." But sheriff's Sgt. Glenn Johnson, whose department conducted the investigation of the killing, said Howell shot himself as an ATF agent tried to get the gun away from him. The ATF has refused to identify the two agents present at 10 a.m. Oct. 7 in Howell's cramped store, Alpha Omega Surplus and Supplies, 2011Ú2 Harrison St., where Howell was killed. Sgt. Ed Whiting was the Taft officer who shot Howell, and sheriff's Senior Deputy Bob Bendle was also present. Whiting could not see where the first shot was fired, but Bendle and the second ATF agent could and that's why they didn't fire their weapons which they had drawn, Johnson has said. An earlier autopsy by the Kern County Coroner's office showed that Howell was shot once in the head and three times in the side, but the bullets have not yet been analyzed. The head shot was reportedly from Howell's .45-caliber weapon while the body shots were from Whiting's .40-caliber weapon. A shooting review board headed by Taft Police Chief Bert Pumphrey and Lt. Ken McMinn is tentatively scheduled for Friday, but Pumphrey said late Wednesday he had not yet received the sheriff's investigation reports he needs for the review. Meanwhile, an outdoor memorial service for Howell has been scheduled for Saturday at 2 p.m. in Ford City Park at Cedar and Tyler streets. The family is asking that contributions to help pay funeral expenses be made to a Howell memorial account at Taft National Bank, 523 Cascade Place, Taft, 93268. Copyright© 1998, The Bakersfield Californian - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 98 18:35:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: There's more to gun control than meets the eye - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 00:14:02 -0400 From: Leroy Crenshaw Subject: [iso-8859-1] There's more to gun control than meets the eye From -- Into the Outdoors Magazine - October 1998 issue page 23 There's more to gun control than meets the eye After reading your editorial in the August issue. I could not help but wonder after reading the last paragraph or two if you really would allow yourself to become a slave of the globist puppet masters by surrendering your firearms. Make no mistake about it, ladies and gentlemen, we are sitting in a pot of boiling water with the heat being turned up on us little by little. Your loss of your Constitutional rights to own firearms is on the horizon. To the guy from North Adams, Mass. who wonders if his sons will be members of the last generation of "hunters and gun owners," (Sept. 1998 issue), please allow me to answer that question for you: "Yes. they will be the last, that is, unless ALL of you don't wake up now. You wonder where your First Amendment rights will be attacked. Well, HELLO! people, all your Constitutional rights have been under attack for many decades. Our public officials have sold us out. Five thousand properties are seized weekly in the USA, some legally, most illegally. Your freedom of speech had better be politically correct. or be prepared to be labeled a domestic terrorist by the likes of Janet "the butcher of Waco" Reno. That is, unless you're a member of the "New Black Panther Party" who can attend funerals in Texas armed with full-auto AK-47s or go around like Dr. Abdul Mohammed from N.J. who vows to kill every white man, woman and child in the U.S., bury us, then dig us up and then kill us again. It's ok to speak out if you're a member of the brown beret "Communist Mexicanos" who vow to take back by force the southwest USA. Churches are 501(c)3 federally registered and regulated by Uncle Sam. What happens to our religious freedom? Need I go on? Most of you have no idea how corrupt your Communist controlled government really is, and that's not your fault. Your lack of knowledge of the truth of what really goes on in the USA is because you listen and watch CNN, (The Communist News Network), or you watch ABC, NBC or CBS, all government-controlled networks owned by your next vice-president. Jay Rockefeller, You know, the family that was responsible for the planned 1929 Stock Market Crash, just one of many Who control our government, who plan on crashing the market soon, And send the world into a Global Depression. These are the people that have just disarmed Australia; they are now disarming New Zealand as we speak, and soon the one world government, United Nations, a Communist controlled organization will begin its final step in disarming America. Right now in America the Republic there are thousands of foreign troops and tons of Russian-made vehicles throughout our country. Holloman AFB in New Mexico has been turned over to the German Air Force. Long Beach shipping port and Naval air station has been signed over to Cosco or the Chinese military. The same government that defeated our Army in Korea and Vietnam. Ft. Polk, La., is headquarters for the thousands of UN troops already in this country. Did anybody see the Boston paper with a photo of foreign troops armed with full-autos right in front of our state house in Boston? Do I have your attention yet? Well, good. Did you know our government has given away to the UN many of America's National Parks they call Biosphere program. The Heritage River Act is a treaty with the UN to control our nations waterways. I feel sorry for anybody who lives along the Connecticut River or any tributary thereof. You folks are about to have a lesson in property rights, or lack thereof. I challenge each of you to seek the truth. Subscribe to newspapers like The North Florida Advocate, call (904)454-4303 or the Idaho Observer by calling (208)777-7888. Or The Oregon Observer at (503)557-9180 and subscribe to the Free American magazine by calling (505)423-3250. Get yourself a short-wave radio and listen to truth radio. Tune in to Republic Radio International at 12.160 or tune your satellite receiver to Galaxy 7 Transponder 14, 7.71 audio and then consider shooting your TV set. Learn about your new national ID card that must be had by all Americans by I bet 2000??? That's public law # l04-I93 title code 42 USC 666. Could this be the so-called "mark of the beast." If I still haven't gotten your attention yet, then call 1-800-771-2147 ext. 25 and order your video tape about the planned chaos about to hit this country head-on. Learn the truth about the so-called Y2K problem. Do it today and get yourself prepared for now. Do not allow yourself or your family to become a victim. Learn how to be a victor. To those of you who don't own any firearms, you'd better reconsider your position. Chaos looms in the near future. Now is the time for your people to wake up, time is very critical. In conclusion, I say this to my brothers in blue: remember your oath to uphold the Constitution of the USA, and protect our Bill of Rights of all Americans. When the time comes, (notice I didn't say if, but when the time comes) and you must decide which side of the line you will stand on, then think about this. The Second Amendment is not about squirrel hunting. It's about guarding the Constitution of the United States of America. This amendment was Designed to preserve all our God-given rights. Never surrender your firearms. To those of you that will cave in and give up your arms, I say this to you. May your children and grandchildren filter through their kidneys their favorite beverage and urinate on your tombstone as they ponder with the thought of why they are now slaves of the globist one-world government. To those of you that can't take a stand, remember your partisan support will he needed. To any federal agent that may read this, I say this to: The gun you take from my cold dead fingers, just might be traced back to one of your fallen comrades. I hope there will he no hard feelings. Oh, by the way, to Dana Charbonneau who wrote the article about the 30-06 for deer hunting, it's right on, it's pure overkill. Just don't lose that 30-06, it has a great history for being a fine battle rifle and history always repeats itself, doesn't it? Gun control isn't about guns, it's about control. Forever Free. Earl Reopell Jr TPR Mass State Police SP Shelburne Falls Master Sargeant USAR Certified Battle Focus instructor Infantry, military police - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Oct 98 18:35:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: LIBERTARIANS BACKED BY GOA It's About Time!!!! - ---------- Libertarian Candidates Endorsed By Gun Owners of California Over Republicans LOS ANGELES, Oct. 16 /PRNewswire/ -- In a move that underscores the emerging importance of the Libertarian Party in electoral politics, the Sacramento-based gun rights organization Gun Owners of California endorsed 10 Libertarian candidates on the November 3rd ballot, the Libertarian Party of California announced today. "This is a historic day for Libertarians," declared Libertarian state chair Mark Hinkle. "We have been fighting for a long time to be taken seriously as a viable political party, and the dedication and hard work of our candidates is paying off. These endorsements are one small step for liberty and one giant leap for the Libertarian Party of California." What makes the endorsements especially satisfying, according to Hinkle, is that Libertarians were endorsed over Republican candidates, who are usually expected to receive the support of gun rights organizations. "Gun Owners of California is recognizing what we've been saying for years: that Libertarians fully acknowledge the constitutionally-protected right held by law-abiding citizens to protect themselves from violent criminals," noted Hinkle. "Republicans tend to forget that." For example, in the 36th Congressional race, Libertarian Kerry Welsh was endorsed over Republican Assemblyman Steve Kuykendall, and in the 24th Assembly race Libertarian Ray Strong was endorsed over Republican incumbent Assemblyman Jim Cunneen. The 10 candidates who received endorsements, and the offices they are seeking, are: * Congressional District 18: Linda M. DeGroat * Congressional District 26: Juan Carlos Ros * Congressional District 36: Kerry Welsh * Senate District 26: Bob Weber * Senate District 40: David N. Graham * Assembly District 22: Paul Rako * Assembly District 24: Ray Strong * Assembly District 39: Christopher "Kit" Maira * Assembly District 40: Kelley L. Ross * Assembly District 47: Eric Michael Fine Gun Owners of California represents 50,000 members statewide. The Libertarian Party of California is running 99 candidates for federal, state, and local office this November. SOURCE Libertarian Party of California CO: Libertarian Party of California; Gun Owners of California ST: California IN: SU: 10/16/98 11:04 EDT http://www.prnewswire.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 98 07:27:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: CNN - Gun-control advocates want gun shows regulated - October 16, 1998 - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 20:05:56 -0400 From: "Mark A. Smith" To: L & J , SNET , David Rydel Subject: CNN - Gun-control advocates want gun shows regulated - October 16, 1998 http://www.cnn.com/US/9810/16/brady.bill/ Gun-control advocates want gun shows regulated October 17, 1998 [Guns] Web posted at: 12:05 a.m. The FBI will begin EDT (0405 GMT) running instant WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Just a background checks month before a new set of November 30 on people federal firearms restrictions who buy firearms takes effect, a national gun-control group is seeking regulations on public gun shows that it claims are a "supermarket for criminals." James Brady, former President Ronald Reagan's press secretary who was wounded in a 1981 assassination attempt, joined members of Handgun Control at a news conference Friday on the steps of the U.S. Capitol. They called for a new law that would require gun shows to be regulated in the same way as gun dealerships. Bob Walker, president of Handgun Control, said organized crime has increasingly turned to gun shows to buy and sell guns without complying with restrictions in the Brady law, a federal gun-control law named after Brady. The former press secretary remains in a wheelchair from injuries he received during John Hinckley's attempted assassination attempt on Reagan. Walker said a "gun show loophole" in the Brady law lets sellers avoid restrictions by simply stating that their weapons are part of a private collection. A new bill, sponsored by Rep. Rod Blagojevich, D-Illinois, would close the loophole and require gun show sales to be conducted in the same manner as sales at registered gun dealers. Expanded background checks begin November 30 On November 30, the FBI will [Reminder] begin running instant Reminders about the new background checks on people regulations are posted who try to buy firearms, a at gun stores system that's already in place in several states. Also, for the first time, the instant checks will be required for sales of rifles and shotguns, not just handguns. At gun stores, reminders of the new requirements have been posted, and there is some evidence sales are increasing as the deadline approaches. Once the FBI background-check system goes into effect, the five-day waiting period for handgun purchases now required by the Brady law will end, because Congress didn't take action to renew it. So except where state law requires a waiting period, people will be able to purchase a firearm if they pass the background check, which searches for evidence that a buyer has a criminal record or a history of mental illness. Despite some reservations, the National Rifle Association supported the instant background checks. But some gun- control advocates say the FBI checks might not cover all state records, and they want the waiting period to remain. In Georgia, the background-check system resulted in about 8 percent of would-be gun purchasers being turned down. Over the past five years, the Brady law has prevented almost 250,000 ineligible people from buying guns, according to gun-control advocates. Correspondent Aram Roston contributed to this report. Related stories: * Court strikes down part of Brady gun law - June 27, 1997 * Brady gun law marks 3rd anniversary - February 28, 1997 * Gun control foes take Brady complaints to Supreme Court - December 2, 1996 * National Rifle Association goes global - November 24, 1996 * Brady Law expansion -- smart politics, but good policy? - August 26, 1996 * Heading to Mexico? Leave the guns at home Related sites: * National Rifle Association * U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms' Firearms Programs page External sites are not endorsed by CNN Interactive. © 1998 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 98 07:27:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Europe vs US Crime I wonder how accurate the attribution of decreasing crime in America and increasing crime in GB to imprisonment, rather than the proliferation of concealed carry in America and victim disarmament in GB, is. After all, "An avidity to punish is always dangerous to liberty." Forwarded-by: hdqrs@worldnet.att.net - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- To: "RKBA-List" Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 12:04:08 -0600 Subject: (Fwd) Europe vs US Crime With the restrictive gun laws in those countries, burglars have little to fear from residents, and they have more "hot" burglaries than we do in the U.S. - ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- WSJ Interactive Edition, October 16, 1998 Commentary Europe Surpasses America--in Crime By MORGAN O. REYNOLDS The conventional wisdom is that the U.S. is the most crime-ridden of modern industrial democracies. Yet the truth is that in many respects we have less crime--and America's crime rate has been declining dramatically. Property crimes represent about nine out of 10 serious crimes. The burglary rate in Australia is 40% higher than that in the U.S., in Canada 12% higher and in England and Wales 30% higher. Sweden and the Netherlands, despite their reputations as nearly crime-free, have burglary rates 35% and 84% greater than the U.S. Only a few nations, including France and Switzerland, have lower burglary rates than the U.S. The picture is much the same for auto theft. What about crimes of violence? The picture is mixed, but the risk of minor violence is generally no higher in America than in other common law countries (i.e., descendants of the British legal system). The glaring exception is the U.S. murder rate, which is about six times higher than in other industrialized nations. But comparing a country with a diverse population such as the U.S. with other, largely homogenous populations ignores important demographic differences. Half the murderers and victims in the U.S. are African-Americans, whose victimization rate is seven times that of whites. The white homicide rate in the U.S. is about twice that in Europe, though the gap has been closing because the U.S. murder rate has been falling. This reflects a broader pattern: As our crime rates have fallen, serious crime rates in England have risen substantially, as a recent study from the U.S. Bureau of Justice Statistics found. For example, victim surveys show that: * The English robbery rate was about half the U.S. rate in 1981, but was 40% higher than America's in 1995. * The English assault rate was slightly higher than America's in 1981, but more than double by 1995. * The English burglary rate was half America's in 1981, but nearly double by 1995. Why these dramatic increases in English crime rates, while Americans' lives and property grew safer? The obvious explanation has been too often downplayed or ignored: The U.S. has instituted tougher, more predictable punishment for crime. The study's authors attribute the trends they note to the increasing conviction rates and longer sentences meted out in the U.S., vs. the decreasing conviction rates and softer sentences in England and Wales. English conviction rates for rape, burglary, assault and aut>Social scientist Charles Murray points out that the England of 1954 operated on the assumption that the best way to keep crime down was to intervene early and sternly. Crime was very low, and the number of youths picked up by the police went down by about half as children matured from the early teens to their late teens. England today operates on the assumption that the way to deal with crime is to be caring and forgiving toward the young offender. Crime is very high, and the number of youths picked up For some time the U.S. criminal justice system also lacked the will or the ability to punish, especially in dealing with juveniles. For example, during the U.S. crime explosion in the 1960s and 1970s, the number of new commitments to prison by the courts for serious predatory crimes actually fell, to 37,000 in 1970 from 40,000 in 1960, while the number of serious crimes reported to the police nearly tripled, to 2.9 million from one million. As a result, the probability of imprisonment for committing a s But in the past few years deterrence has reasserted itself and has driven crime down. Since 1993 in the U.S.: * Murder has dropped 30% as the probability of going to prison for murder has risen 53%. * Rape has decreased 14% as the probability of imprisonment has increased 12%. * Robbery has decreased 29% as the probability of imprisonment has increased 28%. * Burglary has decreased 18% as the probability of imprisonment has increased 14%. Moreover, once in prison, criminals are staying there longer. The median time served by those released has risen since 1993 for every category of serious crime except aggravated assault. This doesn't mean "root causes" don't matter. Being born out of wedlock and raised in a fatherless household doubles the odds that a young male will become a criminal. But no matter how bad root causes may or may not be, a tough approach pays, especially over the long run. The growth of prison admissions eventually stopped America's rising crime rate and then began to push it back down. England and Wales are going in the opposite direction. For the safety of their citizens and their property, England and other developed countries should begin the long--and expensive--road back to law and order. And the sooner the better. Mr. Reynolds is director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis and a professor of economics at Texas A&M University. URL for this Article: http://interactive.wsj.com/archive/retrieve.cgi?id=SB90847924737906500.djm - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:42:45 -0600 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: [!!!To All Homeschooling Parents!!!--OFF TOPIC] This is off topic, but may be of interest. Please pass along info to anyone to whom it may apply. - ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE---- >!!!To All Homeschooling Parents!!! > >Are there any parents out there who homeschool their kids because they don't >agree with the atheistic and/or sick values taught at school? > >Nadine Wimmer wants to interview you. Call Ruth Lehenbauer at 435 753 4866 >tonight. She will get names to Nadine TOMORROW MORNING. Here's your chance >to be a star and make a difference FOR GOOD at the same time. Eat your >heart out, Robert Redford! > - ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE---- - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "The care of every man's soul belongs to himself. But what if he neglect the care of it? Well what if he neglect the care of his health or his estate, which would more nearly relate to the state. Will the magistrate make a law that he not be poor or sick? Laws provide against injury from others; but not from ourselves. God himself will not save men against their wills." -- Thomas Jefferson- October 1776 - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Oct 98 21:52:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: NRA-ILA endorsement - ---------- Forwarded messages ---------- Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:05:53 EDT From: CABONSALL@aol.com To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: Political activities I just received my NRA magazines today and they are urging NRA members to vote on all the Republicans. They don't even list any of us. The last request for contributions I received from the ILA (NRA's lobbying organization - I used to contribute) I returned telling them I'd start sending money again when they started supporting the only party which sees gun ownership as part of the solution, not part of the problem. I'd like to see a merged list of NRA and Libertarian Party membership. Do you think there might be a higher correlation than other parties? Not actual numbers, but percentage of Libertarians who are NRA members vs the other parties...? Charlie Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:52:16 EDT From: CABONSALL@aol.com To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: NRA-ILA endorsement I was upset with the NRA-ILA endorsements of only Republicrats, so I am posting this letter tomorrow. NRA-ILA Grassroots Division Attention Grassfire Editor 11250 Waples Mill Road Fairfax, VA 22030-7400 Dear editor; I just received my November/December issues of The American Rifleman and The American Guardian magazines and I was dismayed to see that you had ignored a large group of pro-gun candidates. I challenge you to publish the following question and your response in the next edition of your feature: "Why do you list only Republican and Democratic candidates who will just bring us more of the same intrusive government and chipping away of our second amendment rights? I agree that your selected candidates may be a little less anti-second amendment than the opponents you listed, but they are still poor choices. The Libertarian Party is the only political party which considers responsible private gun ownership as part of the solution, not part of the problems in our society today. As a candidate for the Utah State Senate I believe that I should have been listed in your publication as a pro-second amendment candidate, along with other Libertarians." Thank you, Charles A. Bonsall Libertarian Candidate Utah Senate District #10 8887 South Ida Lane Sandy, UT 84093-3724 (801) 566-3673 Utsen10@aol.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:23:43 -0600 From: Will Thompson Subject: Re: NRA-ILA endorsement SCOTT BERGESON wrote: > > ---------- Forwarded messages ---------- > Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:05:53 EDT > From: CABONSALL@aol.com > To: lputah@qsicorp.com > Subject: Political activities > > I just received my NRA magazines today and they are urging NRA members > to vote on all the Republicans. They don't even list any of us. > > The last request for contributions I received from the ILA (NRA's lobbying > organization - I used to contribute) I returned telling them I'd start > sending money again when they started supporting the only party which > sees gun ownership as part of the solution, not part of the problem. > > I'd like to see a merged list of NRA and Libertarian Party membership. > Do you think there might be a higher correlation than other parties? > Not actual numbers, but percentage of Libertarians who are NRA members > vs the other parties...? > > Charlie > Actually....I would hope that the ratio of Libertarians to the others would be much below the population ratio. I would really hate to think that it's Libs who are making the NRA the "worlds largest gun control organization." Especially now that Chucky's out peeing in his back yard and campaigning for increased taxes to "save the chiiiiilllldrin" - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 14:10:58 -0600 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Fw: Liberal fill-in-the-blank test (fwd) Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:54:42 -0600 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA19179; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 17:42:05 -0600 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id TAA00783; Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 19:53:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma000511; Thu Oct 22 19:48:20 1998 Message-Id: <9810222232.0y02@xpresso.seaslug.org> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: noban@xpresso.seaslug.org Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: bulk From: noban@xpresso.seaslug.org (Bill Vance) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Fw: Liberal fill-in-the-blank test (fwd) X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Here's one that might get you in trouble; But then again, it might wake a few people up, too.....:-) On Oct 22, Steve Silver wrote: [-------------------- text of forwarded message follows -------------------= - -] The politically correct answer(s) follow each question. 1. Evidence exists that a Democratic administration: o uses the IRS to harass political opponents o sells missile technology to China for campaign contributions o illegally obtains hundreds of Republican FBI files o conspires to commit perjury and obstruct justice o systematically engages in blackmail, bribes and threats of violence These allegations should be thoroughly __________. - -- denounced. 2. Thousands of media reports falsely claim that racists are burning black churches in the South. This is a good example of __________. - -- consciousness-raising. 3. In a mid-term election, Republicans increase their representation in the House by 52 seats, and in the Senate by 7 seats. No Republican congressmen are defeated. This result can best be characterized as __________. - -- anti-incumbent. 4. A Republican Speaker of the House suggests changes to Social Security. He is motivated by a desire to __________. - -- impoverish and starve old people. 5. Two thugs rob and murder a gay man, and rob and beat two other men the same night. One of the murderers reportedly has several gay friends. This is a clear-cut example of __________. - -- a hate crime. 6. After saying he wanted to kill some white people, a black man murders six whites and Asians on a train in New York. This is a clear-cut example of __________. - -- the need for stricter gun-control laws. 7. A Republican Supreme Court nominee is accused by a former employee of having made sexually suggestive remarks ten years ago. The proper response is to __________. - -- march in the streets. 8. A Democratic President lies under oath about an affair with a 21-year old employee to avoid liability in a sexual harassment case. He is also accused of sexually assaulting several other women. The proper response is to __________. - -- forget it and move on. 9. An economic expansion occurs during a Republican administration. This period is known as __________. - -- a decade of greed. 10. An economic expansion occurs during a Democratic administration. This period is known as __________. - -- a booming economy. 11. Some people blow up a Federal Building. Responsibility for this heinous act rests with __________. - --the Republican party, the National Rifle Association, all gun owners and all other conservatives. 12. An extremist environmental group destroys a $12 million ski resort in Colorado purportedly to protect the lynx population. Responsibility for this heinous act does not rest with Al Gore and other radical environmentalists, but with ______________. --the ski resort and its patrons for not immediately shutting down its operation in the interests of "protecting the environment." If you correctly answered all the above questions and weren't bothered for a second, here are two bonus questions: 13. All liberal initiatives of any kind are done __________. - -- For the children. 14. Pointing out contradictions in liberal thinking is called __________. - -- Hate speech. Scoring: All 14 -- Liberal 0 - 13 -- Fascist - -- Steve Silver Vice President, The Lawyer's Second Amendment Society, Inc. 18034 Ventura Blvd., No. 329, Encino, CA 91316 * (818) 734-3066 For a complimentary copy of the LSAS's newsletter, "The Liberty Pole," e-mail your snail-mail address to: LSAS3@aol.com. The LSAS is a 501(c)(4) California non-profit corporation * * * GET THE TRUTH ABOUT GUNS. VISIT: www.guntruths.com [------------------------- end of forwarded message -----------------------= - -] - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - - ***** Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel! ***** - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------= - - An _EFFECTIVE_ | Insured | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no weapon in every | by COLT; | -- Max Plank | weapon sell his hand =3D Freedom | DIAL | In the beginning was the | garment and buy = a on every side! | 1911-A1. | word. -- The Bible | sword.--Jesus = Christ - ----------------+----------+--------------------------+--------------------= - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Oct 98 19:03:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: NRA-ILA endorsement - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 14:02:29 EDT From: CABONSALL@aol.com To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: Re: NRA-ILA endorsement I get your point, but I still suspect that there is a higher ratio of Libertarian members, or sympathizers, of the NRA than most other organizations. BTW, after an exchange with the Gun Owners of America, I found myself apologizing to them and joined them yesterday. They have evaluated, rated and published the ratings of all Libertarian candidates who returned their survey. If a Libertarian is not listed it is because they never received a survey, or did not return one they received. Because Brian Swim was not rated I forwarded the survey form on to him. Charlie - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:09:39 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: [goamail@gunowners.org: S.10 Dies!] Pretty bad when you have to work against your own, supposedly conservative, pro-gun senator... - ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE---- Hatch's "Horror Bill" Is Finally Dead! -- Sen. Smith and gun owners team up for huge victory Gun Owners of America E-Mail/FAX Alert 8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151 Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408 http://www.gunowners.org (Monday, October 26, 1998)-- Last month, Gun Owners of America asked you to contact Senator Bob Smith (R-NH) once more to ask him for a huge favor. The result? Sen. Smith delivered about as well as slugger Mark McGuire would have done with a game on the line. GOA reported earlier last month how Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) hurriedly brought up his Horror Bill (S. 10) for a surprise vote, but was unable to get the required Unanimous Consent agreement. Senate Democrats would only "consent" to debate the bill if they were allowed to offer dozens of amendments-- many of them anti-gun. Senate staffers reported that Hatch, having been rebuffed on the Senate floor, then began scheming for ways to slip his anti-gun Horror Bill (S. 10) into a completely different bill-- without a vote-- and then to bring the bill to the floor in an unamendable form. That's when the GOA grassroots network went to work. The timing was crucial. Your calls, faxes, emails and letters-- from all over the nation-- spurred Senator Smith to continue his leadership role in defense of the Second Amendment. Senator Smith Goes To Bat For Gun Owners Nationwide --Earns The Senate MVP! And defend our rights he did. Sen. Smith confronted Hatch and adamantly declared that he would personally keep S. 10 from reaching the Senate floor. Smith promised to withhold the "consent" needed for Hatch to bring up S. 10 as long as the anti-gun provisions remained in the bill. Sources close to the Senate noted that Hatch was irate. Nevertheless, Sen. Smith refused to back down against the powerful Judiciary Committee Chairman. Unable to overcome the obstacles laid down by Senator Smith, Hatch put up the white flag. Well, sort of. Hatch agreed (once again) to revise his bill. But after looking at the new (supposedly clean) version, GOA attorneys discovered there were still provisions that would endanger the rights of law-abiding gun owners. Regardless, the clock has now run out on S. 10. Credit GOA Members For Getting SEVEN Senators To Drop Their Support Of S. 10 This is a tremendous victory. Early in 1997, Majority Leader Trent Lott listed S. 10 as one of the Top Ten "Must Pass" bills for the Congress. Most of the "experts" in Washington thought this bill was unstoppable. Nevertheless, GOA chose to conduct a full, frontal assault against the anti-gun bill. Lamenting our opposition to his bill, Sen. Hatch stated recently on the Senate floor that, "I have been involved in this fight [to pass a juvenile crime bill] for over three years now. Rarely have I found an issue over which interest group opponents were more determined to block [such a bill]." For almost two full years, your GOA alerted members and activists regarding the dangers in S. 10. Your response has been tremendous and has resulted in SEVEN cosponsors dropping their names from the Horror Bill. One of those seven cosponsors even went on to take up the cause against the bill. That was Sen. Bob Smith, who is the one Senator most responsible for killing the bill this year. We have come a long way. Clearly, your grassroots work has resulted in a massive victory. As originally introduced, S. 10 would have virtually eliminated the Second Amendment as we know it today. Prosecutors would have been given the tools to charge gun dealers under the RICO (racketeering) statute. Dealers could have faced 25 years in prison and the confiscation of their home and business for the 'vicious crime' of merely committing two recordkeeping offenses! "How many gun dealers would remain in business with that 'sword of Damocles' hanging over their heads?" asked GOA Executive Director Larry Pratt. "Not many to be sure. "The members and activists of Gun Owners of America deserve a pat on the back. Representative government still works, and you guys did your job to communicate your position to your elected officials," Pratt said. **************************************************************** Did someone else forward this to you? To be certain of getting up to date information, please consider subscribing directly to the GOA E-Mail Alert Network. The service is totally free and carries no obligation. Your e-mail address remains confidential, and the volume is quite low, usually one or two messages per week. To subscribe, simply send a message (or forward this notice) to goamail@gunowners.org and indicate your state of residence in either the subject or the body. To unsubscribe, reply to any alert and ask to be removed. - ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE---- - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress shall have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American .. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the People." -- Tench Coxe - 1788. - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #107 ***********************************