From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #108 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Thursday, November 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 108 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:00:48 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: GSL> History Channel Tonight Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:37:00 -0700 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA01311; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:24:13 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA22338; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:35:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:35:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma019965; Thu Oct 29 11:30:23 1998 Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981029100621.007c3670@texoma.net> Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: g.g.williams@mindspring.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: first-class From: Gene Williams (by way of Joe Sylvester ) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: GSL> History Channel Tonight X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline <<> Posted to texas-gun-owners by Gene Williams - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Return-Path: >Delivered-To: gsl@majordomo.pobox.com >X-Originating-IP: [137.51.83.237] >From: "Melinda Gierisch" >To: gsl@listbox.com >Subject: GSL> History Channel Tonight >Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:26:24 EST >Sender: owner-gsl@listbox.com >Reply-To: gsl@listbox.com > >http://thePentagon.com/FullBookJacket ------------ http://GunsSaveLives.co= m > >The History Channel will air tonight, Thursday, October 29th, at = 7:00PM=20 >EST, a program entitled, "Gun Control: The Right To Bear Arms." Please=20 >pass this message on to friends. > >Melinda =20 > =20 > > > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >-------------------------- >GunsSaveLives Internet Discussion List > >This list is governed by an acceptable use >policy: http://www.wizard.net/~kc/policy.html >or available upon request. > >To unsubscribe send a message to >majordomo@listbox.com > >with the following line in the body: > >unsubscribe gsl > >GUNSSAVELIVES (GSL) IS A PRIVATE UNMODERATED LIST. >THE OWNER TAKES NO RESPONSIBILTY FOR CONTENT. ALL >RIGHTS RESERVED. > USPSA A-34943 IDPA A03155 NRA-NROI-GOA-LEAA ICQ 13576014 Member VRWC - -- For help with Majordomo commands, send a message to majordomo@mailing-list.= net with the word help in the message body. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 10:00:29 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: FW: GSL> History Channel Tonight Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:37:00 -0700 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA01310; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:24:13 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id LAA22340; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:35:15 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 11:35:15 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma020016; Thu Oct 29 11:30:26 1998 Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: KGrubb@carnival.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: first-class From: "Grubb, Ken" To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: FW: GSL> History Channel Tonight X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline forwarded from GSL Ken Grubb Miami, FL > -----Original Message----- > From: Melinda Gierisch [SMTP:gieriscm@hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 29, 1998 10:26 AM > To: gsl@listbox.com > Subject: GSL> History Channel Tonight >=20 > http://thePentagon.com/FullBookJacket ------------ > http://GunsSaveLives.com >=20 > The History Channel will air tonight, Thursday, October 29th, at = 7:00PM=20 > EST, a program entitled, "Gun Control: The Right To Bear Arms." = Please=20 > pass this message on to friends. >=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 98 06:44:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: NRA-ILA endorsement - ----------- Forwarded messages ---------- Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 07:12:12 PST From: Richard Partridge To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: Re: LPU: Political activities Six years ago I ran against Rob Bishop for H2 and the NRA endorsed him (not even an NRA member) over me (Life Member, certified Rifle, Pistol, and Personal Defense Instructor). I called them up and chewed them royally. They gave some wimp excuse about "viable" candidates. Four years ago, when I ran a two-way race for S24 against John Holmgren, I was the only 3rd-party candidate in Utah endorsed by the NRA. Of course, I had worked closely with Scott Engen, the head of Utah Shooting Sports Council, and Bryan Judy, the NRA Field Coordinator. Since then, the USSC has been taken over by (of all people) Rob Bishop, who has effectively neutralized it as a force for defending the right to keep and bear arms, and the USSC and the NRA have both pushed restricting the right to petition (including Prop 5). The NRA also tried to push an instant background check bill in Georgia that was opposed by GOA. (GOA won.) Watch out for the NRA and USSC. Dick >From: CABONSALL@aol.com >Date: Wed, 21 Oct 1998 19:05:53 EDT >To: lputah@qsicorp.com >Subject: LPU: Political activities >Speaking of the political activities of churches... How about other >organizations...? >I just received my NRA magazines today and they are urging NRA members >to vote on all the Republicans. They don't even list any of us. >The last request for contributions I received from the ILA (MRA's >lobbying organization - I used to contribute) I returned telling them >I'd start sending money again when they started supporting the only >party which sees gun ownership as part of the solution, not part of >the problem. >I'd like to see a merged list of NRA and Libertarian Party membership. >Do you think there might be a higher correlation than other parties? >Not actual numbers, but percentage of Libertarians who are NRA members >vs the other parties...? >Charlie Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 09:26:43 PST From: Richard Partridge To: lputah@qsicorp.com Subject: Re: LPU: NRA-ILA endorsement As I'm an NRA Life member, it would be pointless to quit (assuming there is a way to do that). As a Life Member, I have voting privileges and, in the last election for board members, I voted for every dissident candidate on the ballot. Unfortunately, NRA members seem to be as uninformed as the average American voter, and the result was that Charlton Heston was elected to head the NRA even though he endorsed the 1968 Gun Control Act. I will continue to oppose NRA's sinful behavior any way I can. Dick >Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 07:05:13 -0600 (MDT) >From: Scott Bergeson >To: Libertarian Party of Utah >Subject: LPU: NRA-ILA endorsement >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 23 Oct 1998 10:23:43 -0600 >From: Will Thompson >To: utah-firearms@xmission.com >Subject: Re: NRA-ILA endorsement >Actually....I would hope that the ratio of Libertarians to the others >would be much below the population ratio. I would really hate to think >that it's Libs who are making the NRA the "worlds largest gun control >organization." Especially now that Chucky's out peeing in his back >yard and campaigning for increased taxes to "save the chiiiiilllldrin" - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 16:24:14 -0700 From: Will Thompson Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Sallislaw, Oklahoma] Received: from [192.40.29.55] by toro.phbtsus.com with SMTP (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA11934; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:40:07 -0700 Return-Path: <#9@therighter.com> Received: from mars.aros.net by philipsdvs.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA10643; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:36:35 -0700 Received: from sarahtho (dm6-43.slc.aros.net [207.173.24.44]) by mars.aros.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA05402; Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:34:18 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981029143428.008895e0@aros.net> X-Sender: righter@aros.net (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:34:28 -0700 To: righter@therighter.com From: #9 <#9@therighter.com> Subject: Fwd: Sallislaw, Oklahoma Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> Police shooting puzzles woman from Sallisaw >> http://www.swtimes.com/ >> >> BY TINA TABER >> SOUTHWEST TIMES RECORD >> Fort Smith, Arkansas >> >> An area woman continues to recover from a shattered shoulder, still >uncertain >> why she was shot Friday by police in Sallisaw. >> >> Patricia Ann Eymer, 32, of Sallisaw was released from Sparks Regional >Medical >> Center Monday. Eymer underwent surgery after being shot once in the upper >> right shoulder. >> >> Lorna Palmer, public information assistant with the Oklahoma State Bureau of >> Investigation, said Eymer was shot by a Sallisaw Police officer who was >> executing a search warrant on Eymer's Sallisaw residence for drugs. >> >> Eymer said from her hospital room Tuesday she was shot as she was coming out >> of her bedroom around 7 a.m. with her hands raised and her 4-year-old >> daughter walking with her. >> >> "I heard them yelling 'This is the Sallisaw Police. Come out with your hands >> up.' I said, 'I'm coming out, I'm unarmed, and my 4-year-old daughter is >with >> me,'" Eymer said. "I came out with my hands up and saw two police officers >> standing in the hall. I looked at them; they looked at me. No one said >> anything, and boom I went down." - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 98 08:14:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: COMING SOON TO A LEGISLATURE NEAR YOU 1/2 - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Chris W. Stark" To: email-subscribers@GOA-Texas.org Date: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 22:32:00 -0600 ****GOA-Texas e-mail Alert!**** GUN OWNERS ALLIANCE Chris W. Stark - Director 915 Yacht Ct., P.O. Box 1924 Crosby, Texas 77532-1924 Ph. (281) 787-4111 Fax (281) 328-7505 http://www.GOA-Texas.org email: Director@GOA-Texas.org 10/27/98 - -------- COMING SOON TO A LEGISLATURE NEAR YOU: THE NEW PENNSYLVANIA-STYLE PRE-EMPTIVE GUN BAN LAWS!!! If you liked the Lautenburg Bill/Domestic Violence erosion of our gun rights, you'll just LOVE the new wave of Pennsylvania-Style gun control laws that are about to become the next "model for the nation"! FIRST PHASE-- PA Act 17 (1995): DEMONIZE GUNOWNERS; PRE-EMPTIVE GUN CONFISCATION; AND ELIMINATION OF DUE PROCESS PROTECTIONS FOR GUNOWNERS Pennsylvania, the "Keystone State" is getting ready to launch the next wave of progressive gun-ban laws, having successfully reduced gun ownership to a mere state-granted privilege in 1995. Passed in 1995, on the momentum of the "assault-weapon" gun hysteria, PA Act 17 (the Uniform Firearms Act) was sponsored by both NRA and Handgun Control, Inc.. It was hailed as a "model for the nation", and was indeed unique in that Act 17 implemented the first-ever law that allowed the confiscation of lawfully owned firearms and the permanent loss of all fundamental 2nd amendment rights for anyone "suspected" of being dangerous. No warrant needed, no court or other hearing provided, no conviction or adjudication necessary -- just an automatic gun-grab and forfeiture of fundamental constitutional rights based on any undocumented suspicion. On the heels of PA Act 17's "model legislation", the Federal Lautenburg Domestic Violence bill was passed and for the first time there was an automatic loss of gun-rights for misdemeanor convictions, potentially including the use of a loud voice or harsh language in family dispute. PA Act 17 and Lautenburg were just the first phase of a structured ongoing campaign to eliminate the right to keep and bear arms. They are the new "Pre-Emptive Laws" -- intended to take away your second amendment rights not based on actual adjudicated violent behaviors such as a felony conviction, but to progressively extend the gun-ban to lesser criminal offenses, or in the case of PA Act 17, to allow the ban even where no allegation (let alone conviction) of violent behavior is made...just an undocumented "suspicion" --not supported by a warrant, never adjudicated in a court or other formal hearing. PHASE II: RATIONING & INTIMIDATION Following the success of Act 17 in 1995, the Keystone State legislature is now gearing up to unleash the next phase of gun-banning: rationing and intimidation. Upcoming sessions of legislature are expected to propose laws to limit gun purchases to one firearm per month. And we all know that once the rationing process is initially planted, it can be easily broadened to one gun every three months and eventually once a year, or five per household, etc. Along with rationing, the new "model for the nation" legislation will require fingerprinting of those who purchase firearms. Many were surprised and outraged to find out that PA Act 17 began the creation of an electronic "mental health data base" by the PA State Police containing the mental health records of all citizens, whether they own guns or not. This invasion of privacy will now be supplemented with the fingerprinting of lawful gun buyers, thereby further demonizing those who wish to exercise a fundamental constitutional right -- a right specifically and emphatically guaranteed by the Pennsylvania constitution until, that's right, I forgot -- PA Act 17 reduced this fundamental right to a weak, unprotected privilege. Remember when being fingerprinted meant that you were a criminal?? WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN Law-abiding citizen and resident of Pennsylvania Russell Laing can tell you about what pre-emptive gun-hysteria laws do. In 1996 his home was invaded by gun-waving members of a local township police department who later justified storming into his quiet suburban home without a warrant as being due to their having learned that he did not report to work or call in sick with his employer. Having no criminal record, never even being ACCUSED of any threatening or violent behavior, Russ Laing was jumped on in his bedroom where he was found sleeping -- and summarily marched out on the street in front of his neighbors to be taken to a local hospital for "observation" -- because the policeman who led the charge expressed the belief that Russ "was unable to care for himself". Not dangerous, not threatening, not even being awake when the "dynamic entry" was made into his home. Go to http://www.goa-texas.org/r-laing.htm for more information. Of course, this was after the police noticed his locked gunsafe and made a clumsy, unsuccessful attempt to get his employer (where Russ continues to be employed as a highly successful financial director) to make a statement that Russ was believed to be "armed and dangerous". Without a warrant or any other authority --except Act 17-- these same police then dragged Russ Laing's locked gunsafe out of his home and away to their headquarters. Several years of court hearings later, a nearly bankrupted Russ Laing finally had his gunrights restored only upon a ruling by the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms that PA Act 17 was unconstitutional in its lack of due-process protections. But rather than restore our rights taken by Act 17, the legislators are getting ready to make EVEN MORE GOOD LAWS JUST LIKE IT! [ Continued In Next Message... ] - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 98 08:14:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: Gun Buyer System By Christmas - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 14:43:50 EST From: AHoward76@aol.com To: lputah@qsicorp.com FBI System To Check Gun Buyers To Be Ready For Christmas By James Vicini Reuters WASHINGTON (Oct 29) - A national system to instantly check the backgrounds of would-be gun buyers will be ready on schedule in a month, prepared to handle the year's busiest time for gun sales right before Christmas, an FBI official said Thursday. Deputy Assistant FBI Director David Loesch said the system covering the more than 12 million firearms sold each year will start on Nov. 30, right before the peak sales season when many people buy guns as Christmas gifts or for hunting season. ''Of course, we're worried about it. Sure. You know, I mean, we'd be crazy if we weren't, I think, '' he said, joining Attorney General Janet Reno at the regular weekly Justice Department news briefing to discuss details of the system. ''The big months, obviously, are December, November and October. The three weeks just before Christmas are very large,'' he said, referring to gun sales. ''We'll definitely be prepared. It's difficult, obviously, to bring up a system in the biggest month of the year,'' he said. ''We know that we'll be ready and running at that time, and be able to handle it.'' The historic Brady gun-control law required that the FBI-run system be in operation by Nov. 30 to replace the prior system that allowed local sheriffs to voluntarily conduct background checks on handgun buyers during a five-day period. The new system will be operated by the FBI or some of the states as the main point of contact for 60,000 gun dealers. It will deny a gun to fugitives, criminals, the mentally ill, habitual drug users or those with other disqualifying factors. Reno explained that a prospective gun buyer will fill out a form in the gun shop. The dealer will then place a phone call and an instant check will be run on the computerized network. An estimated 85 percent of the checks will be done instantly, with the purchase either approved or denied. When records are unclear and follow-up inquiries are required, the law allows for a three-day period to complete the check. Reno said she thought the FBI and its system would be prepared for December's surge in gun sales. Loesch said pawnshops, where an estimated 2.5 million guns are pawned each year, and gun shows also will be covered by the new system. An FBI plan to charge gun dealers about $10 for each check has been dropped after Congress approved $42 million to cover the FBI's costs for the first year of the system, he said. Reut12:49 10-29-98 Copyright 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL. - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 98 08:14:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: COMING SOON TO A LEGISLATURE NEAR YOU 2/2 [ ...Continued From Previous Message ] HAVE YOU HAD ENOUGH YET? Are you going to wait until they storm into your bedroom the next time your alarm clock malfunctions? Being quietly asleep in your bedroom is the new standard to have your home invaded, your property seized and forever lose your fundamental constitutional rights in Pennsylvania. Sleeping in the privacy of your bedroom now constitutes sufficiently dangerous behavior to be declared by your local policeman as "unable to care for yourself" -- which in turn automatically makes you too dangerous to own a firearm. Have you felt drowsy lately? Variations of PA Act 17's "Model for the Nation" have been passed or are now being considered in state legislatures across the nation. "Pre-emptive law" like the Lautenburg Bill is broadening the population of citizens prohibited from the fundamental right to keep and bear arms, while state laws like Act 17 are passed to demonize the remaining lawful gunowners as a class of people so inherently dangerous that they need not be protected by the constitutional right to due process of the law. We can now also look forward to being fingerprinted just like a convicted murderer and have that be entered into the same database that contains the record of all our visits to the marriage counselor. Please FAX and then call your Representative in Harrisburg immediately. Then contact as many of the members of the House Judiciary Committee as you can before November 3, 1998. Anti-gunners are planning to force a vote and "pop" a very restrictive gun control bill out to the floor as early as November 9, 1998. House Bill 2484 (L. Cohen) amends Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) to restrict firearms purchases to one firearm per 30 day period (gun rationing). HB 2484 also requires new restrictive paperwork to be filled out by gun buyers, a photo and fingerprints! In addition, HB 2484 makes it a crime for you to not report a lost or stolen firearm within 14 days, even in cases where you don't own the firearm but "control" it. Here's the House Judiciary Committee list: (All area codes are 717 unless noted otherwise.) Phone # / FAX # Chm. Thomas Gannon (R-161) 783-6430 / 783-2867 Jerry Birmelin (R-139) 783-2037 / 772-9869 Scot Chadwick (R-110) 783-8238 / 787-5713 Dan Clark (R-82) 783-3850 / 783-3899 Lita Cohen (R-148) 783-2063 / 787-0860 Craig Dally (R-138) 783-8573 / 772-2468 Brett Feese (R-84) 787-5270 / 772-2468 Tim Hennessey (R-26) 787-3431 / 787-0860 Steve Maitland (R-91) 783-5217 / 783-3899 Al Masland (R-199) 772-2280 / 772-9869 Jane Orie (R-28) 772-9943 / 772-2470 Bob Reber (R-146) 787-2924 / 772-6952 Jere Shuler (R-43) 783-6422 / 772-6952 Chris Wogan (R-176) 787-3974 / 772-9905 Tom Caltagirone (D-127) 787-3525 / 772-5401 Andy Carn (D-197) 787-3542 / 787-7295 Pete Daley II (D-49) 783-933? / 783-7558 Frank Dermody (D-33) 787-3566 / 787-8060 Harold James (D-186) 787-9477 / 787-7517 B. Josephs (D-182) 787-8529 / 787-0861 Kate Manderino (D-194) 787-1254 / 787-0861 Dave Mayernik (D-29) 783-1654 / None Listed Joe Petraca (D-55) 787-5142 / 705-2014 Don Walko (D-20) 787-5470 / 783-0407 L. Washington (D-200) 783-2175 / 783-8724 Call the phone numbers above to get district office phone and FAX numbers. They're not just stopping you randomly at the armed checkpoints for drunk-driver-screening (instituted in PA in the past several years), now they will come into your home, your bedroom, your most private medical records (that used to be protected by Federal and State Privacy Laws). All in the name of pre-emptive law. And they will not stop until they have "pre-empted" virtually every right that you still have left. It's not just about guns anymore, it's about freedom. Have you had enough? Or will you wait for your State to be the next to experience your very own "Act 17"? If PA can succeed in their latest attempt to further erode freedom in that State, surely it will be a green light for the antis of every other State, to proceed with your very own "Act 17", in YOUR STATE! As Sarah Brady of Handgun Control, Inc.. said, It was hailed as a "model for the nation". What will you do? And now you know what the PA legislature is up to, even after the great victories Russell Laing has seen, http://www.goa-texas.org/process2.htm and now you know "The R E S T of the Story!" ***************************************************************** Gun Owners Alliance Chris W. Stark - Director P.O. Box 1924 Crosby, TX 77532-1924 Voice: (281) 787-4111 EMAIL: Director@GOA-Texas.org Visit our Web Page at: http://www.GOA-Texas.org ***************************************************************** Copyright (c) 1998, Gun Owners Alliance (GOA-Texas). Republication permitted provided this article & attribution is left intact in its original state. # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # The views contained herein do not necessarily reflect the views of any other individual or organization, than Gun Owners Alliance. # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # # ***************************************************************** TO SUBSCRIBE TO OUR E-MAIL ALERTS, send an e-mail to: subscribe@GOA-Texas.org and in the body of the message, type the word "subscribe". - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Nov 1998 08:53:41 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: From another list... Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Mon, 02 Nov 1998 02:07:29 -0700 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id BAA04334; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 01:54:43 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.8.8/8.7.3) id EAA15436; Mon, 2 Nov 1998 04:06:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 04:06:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma015181; Mon Nov 2 04:01:41 1998 Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: dugga@pacifier.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@Mainstream.net Precedence: first-class From: dugga@pacifier.com (Doug Spittler) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: From another list... X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline >NRA launches last-minute drive to stop Schumer >Associated Press, 10/30/98 15:34 > > > ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) - In an 11th-hour effort to shoot down >Democrat Charles Schumer's challenge of Sen. Alfonse >D'Amato, the National Rifle Association has fired off a $160,000 >appeal to gun owners, an NRA spokesman said Friday. > >Recent polls have shown the race to be a statistical dead heat or >with Schumer slightly ahead. > >``Al D'Amato needs your support ... now more than ever,'' a >letter from the NRA says. > >The NRA mailing to an estimated 500,000 to 1 million >households across the state features a fake newspaper story >dated Nov. 4, 1998, with the headline: ``Schumer Elected To >U.S. Senate ... Gun Ban, Confiscation Law Likely to Pass.'' > >```The time has come in America to get rid of guns,' Schumer >told a jubilant election night crowd at his campaign >headquarters,'' the bogus newspaper story reports. > >A note pasted over the top edge of the phony newspaper page >says: ``Only your vote can prevent this.'' > >``The mailing is full of lies and distortions,'' Schumer >spokesman Howard Wolfson said. ``The only true thing about it >is that Chuck Schumer will be the winner on Election Day.'' > >The congressman, author of the gun-control Brady Bill and the >assault weapons ban, has long been considered a leading NRA >target. The gun group has contributed at least $36,000 directly >to D'Amato's campaign for a fourth term. The senator has been >a staunch opponent of gun-control legislation. > >``The NRA owns Al D'Amato lock, stock and barrel,'' Wolfson >said. > >In a letter accompanying the ersatz news story, NRA leaders tell >voters that ``you - and you alone - can rid every American gun >owner of the most anti-gun politician in this country.'' > >The appeal, according NRA spokesman Bill Powers, was sent to >sportsmen, hunters, gun owners and NRA members across the >state this week. It says Schumer's goal is to ban the private >ownership of guns. > >``And, as a senator, he'll have six long years to work to ban your >firearms ... six years before you get another chance to vote >Schumer out of office!'' the letter warns. > >While Schumer has said he does not favor an outright ban on all >guns, the NRA's Powers said his group does not believe that. > >``The message that we want to convey to New York ... is Charles >Schumer has lied about his views toward the Second >Amendment and gun control,'' the NRA spokesman said. ``Not >only has he voted for every gun ban and restriction that's >crossed his desk in Congress, but he has proposed more.'' - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Nov 98 08:24:00 -0700 From: scott.bergeson@ucs.org (SCOTT BERGESON) Subject: packing a gun - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: "Lew Rockwell" Date: Thu, 29 Oct 1998 09:09:58 -0600 Subject: packing a gun Read this and you, too, will be packing a gun for self-defense By Charley Reese Published in The Orlando Sentinel, Oct 29 1998 A new book out should dispel any doubts about using firearms for self-defense. It's The Best Defense by Robert A. Waters, and it is published by Cumberland House in Nashville. Waters, who is a former director of adult programs for an association of retarded adults and a former counselor in vocational rehabilitation, interviewed extensively people who were forced to defend their lives with a firearm. The 14 stories are well-told. Some read like a suspense story, and they put the reader into the shoes of people whose normal, peaceful lives suffered the sudden, horrifying shock of a criminal attack. You also will see clearly that neither police nor the courts offer much protection. One story is about the Stanton family in Ohio. A man with a grudge against the world set out on a killing spree. His first three victims included a small child. Then he tried to kill a former supervisor, but the supervisor, though wounded, managed to retrieve a rifle from under his bed, and the killer fled. Doug Stanton's family got a call, informing them that the man, who once, long ago, had stalked Mrs. Stanton, could be on the way. Stanton immediately gathered his four children and wife to flee. He kept them in the kitchen and went outside to make sure it was safe. There was the killer in the driveway, holding a pistol and wearing a bullet-proof vest. Stanton hustled his family back into the kitchen, instructing the children to lie flat. The killer came to back door, fired through it and then kicked it open, spraying bullets into the kitchen. Stanton took careful aim with his .45 automatic and fired. The first shot missed, but the second one struck the killer, and, despite his vest, he staggered backward, fell off the porch and fled. Later, bruised and bleeding beneath the vest, he was arrested by the police. Convicted of four murders, he was sentenced to death. Doug Stanton said it best in an interview after the incident: "People are quick to espouse the virtues of gun restrictions. They say if it saves one life, it will be worth it. Because the Stanton family had a gun, six lives were saved. Had there been restrictions on gun ownership, the Stantons would be dead. This is a fact, not a hypothetical situation." The story of a 100-pound divorcee who had to fight for her life against a 200-pound home invader in broad daylight inside her own home in an upper-middle-income neighborhood will raise the hairs on your neck. He slashed her face with a box cutter, knocked out four teeth and shattered her face so that one eye was knocked out of its socket. The only thing that saved her was a .25-caliber pistol. She managed to pump four bullets into the guy, and he finally bled to death before he could kill her. Her assailant had been arrested 30 times, sent to prison and released three times. So much for the protection of the law. Perhaps the scariest of the stories is that of a family whose members found themselves at the mercy of a serial killer who tied up the husband in the garage and bound the wife to a bed. He alternated between the two, torturing them with a knife. He had bashed the husband in the head and stabbed him in the chest. The assailant -- who, the family would later learn, had already killed 10 people -- worked in the same store that the wife did. The husband, though severely wounded, managed to free himself and shoot the guy with one bullet from an antique rifle. Then he beat the guy with the barrel and the stock, finally killing him. Trust me: This book is an exciting read, and the 14 stories are true. It'll make a believer in the Second Amendment out of any sensible person. - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:31:57 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Who Dumped Saltpeter on the GOP Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:09:17 -0700 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA07194; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:56:29 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id MAA21025; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:07:33 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 12:07:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma020872; Wed Nov 4 12:07:12 1998 Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: pwatson@utdallas.edu Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@mainstream.net Precedence: first-class From: Paul M Watson To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Who Dumped Saltpeter on the GOP X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- www.FreeRepublic.com=20 =20 Who Dumped Saltpeter in the GOP Fountain ? =20 OWK 11/4/98 One who knows... =20 What happened yesterday..?? What went wrong..?? This isnt a difficult question to answer. Anyone willing to look at the situation with even the slightest hint of objectivity can tell you. The GOP has lost its manhood. =20 This has not always been the case. The greatest successes ever enjoyed by the republican party, have come from the partys willingness to stand firm in the face of opposition. The Contract with America was roundly ridiculed by the press, and by the left. In the face of that ridicule, the GOP stuck to its guns, and enjoyed the greatest single election turnaround in the history of party politics. And then theres Ronald Reagan. He spent his entire political career being ridiculed, lambasted, and undermined by his opposition, and even by those in his own party. He stood against this opposition like a man, and drew well from both parties giving him landslide victory. =20 Like any other human interactions, politics and elections are driven largely by psychological perceptions of the central players on the stage. We have created a two party system, whose power brokers are judged as icons for the party itself. The ability of these icons to project power, reliability, and confidence has as much to do with success or failure, as does policy. The republican party has lost the mid-term elections almost entirely because of its failure to stand and fight on issues of importance. The party leadership chose to capitulate on issue after issue, in an effort to avoid the appearance of controversy. In doing so, the have emasculated the party. =20 I challenge each of you, and I challenge the GOP leadership, to review the product of the 105th congress. Review it, and count the number of times the GOP has stood firm on principle. Try it, you wont need many fingers I can assure you. When the party fails to stand for anything, it projects an image of weakness, and ineptitude. You have all seen it. You have all felt that sickening feeling in your gut. You have seen Trent Lott stare down at the ground, and kick at his shoes, and say, "We felt it was important to work to bring this to closure in a bi-partisan way", and you knew he was surrendering yet again. =20 Well if the GOP wishes to prosper as a party, they need to shed this testosterone free image. They need to develop a real legislative agenda. Not some candy-ass "save Social Security", and "more teachers" garbage. They need to stand for the goals they swore to defend. They need to forward an agenda which is true to the smaller government, lower taxes, freer people, and stronger defense. They need to start now, and they need to stand firm against the opposition. =20 If they do these things, and they show the stones to carry them out, they will win in ways they never imagined. People vote for men who can project power. They cannot bring themselves to vote for habitual cowering capitulators. Stand now and be counted, or be forever marginalized _________________________________________________________________ =20 Posted by: One who knows... (owknows@yahoo.com) * 11/04/98 06:30:45 PST Reply _________________________________________________________________ =20 To: One who knows... Actually, it happened a year ago this time in November when Janet Reno, sandbagged the Thompson committee. She waited until after Thompson declared he would end the hearings before trundling out all the damning information. The bull dyke at justice, effecitively told the republicans that they were not men. From: ckilmer (ckilmer@juniata.dgsys.com) * 11/04/98 06:39:07 PST Reply _________________________________________________________________ =20 =20 To: One who knows... There is a new element in the mix. The Democrats have perfected, with the direction of the LIAR, lying. And they are good at it. After 1994, the Democrats knew their ideas were lost so they turned to bald-face lying which is now perfected. The Contract with America could not have passed in this envoirnment(today) and Reagan would have been hard pressed to be elected - because of the professional liars. =20 It's only going to get worse with the lying and it's only going to get worse for conservative priniples unless the GOP figures out how to combat the obtrusive lying. From: DEADROCK (emailname) * 11/04/98 06:45:38 PST Reply _________________________________________________________________ =20 www.FreeRepublic.com=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 10:43:04 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Paul & Chenoweth WIN! PAUL (REP) * 84431 55% WIN=20 SNEARY (DEM) 67924 45% CHENOWETH (REP) * 108911 55% WIN WILLIAMS (DEM) 88707 45% - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:34:41 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Does anyone know...? Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Thu, 05 Nov 1998 03:13:00 -0700 Received: from fs1.mainstream.net by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id DAA08091; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 03:00:13 -0700 Received: (from smap@localhost) by fs1.mainstream.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id FAA24134; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 05:11:28 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 05:11:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost(127.0.0.1) by fs1.mainstream.net via smap (V1.3) id sma023952; Thu Nov 5 05:07:48 1998 Message-Id: Errors-To: listproc@mainstream.com Reply-To: dugga@pacifier.com Originator: noban@mainstream.net Sender: noban@mainstream.net Precedence: first-class From: dugga@pacifier.com (Doug Spittler) To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: Does anyone know...? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0 -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Comment: Anti-Gun-Ban list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline J.T. wrote: >Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:48:11 -0700 (PDT) >From: JT McBride >To: noban@Mainstream.net >Subject: NRA Alert >Message-ID: <199804101948.MAA23101@gde.GDEsystems.COM> >Haven't seen this on the list yet: >Call your senators today (4/9/98). Tell them to support Sen. Craig's >amendment (S.Amdt. 1604) to override Komrade Klinton's recent gun ban by >executive order. All the guns he just banned are legal under the rules >he made in 1994. >Senate phone no.: 202-224-3121 >also call your representative at 202-224-3121 and tell him to support >the companion bill, H.R. 2734. >CALL EVERYONE YOU KNOW AND TELL THEM TO DO THIS TODAY!!! >L. Mahanay Does anyone know what happened to this? Wasn't this "temporary ban" supposed to end after 90 days? Is it still in effect? Has congress screwed us AGAIN? - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #108 ***********************************