From: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com (utah-firearms-digest) To: utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: utah-firearms-digest V2 #115 Reply-To: utah-firearms-digest Sender: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-utah-firearms-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk utah-firearms-digest Friday, December 11 1998 Volume 02 : Number 115 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:06:23 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: Gun poll in DesNews Update The "Quick Poll" in the DesNews has now been changed. The results from the previous poll are not available like they used to be. The last time I was able to check, the numbers were slightly in favor on not banning guns in either schools or churchers. I placed a call to Mark Reece, the Web edition Associate editor at 801-237-2156 to ask how to see the final results. His voice mail asked for a message and gave the name of Stewart (missed the last name) at 801-236-6097. I called Stewart and asked about how to see the results. Seems they are currently debating over whether or not to make the results of past polls available. He is personally in favor of doing so and said my call requesting it would help him support his point of view that they should be available. Without disclosing my own feelings, I casually asked if he knew how the poll had turned out. He said it had started with most people wanting to ban guns in both places, but had then shifted dramatically and he thought perhaps someone had gotten organized (who would do that?) :) and maybe even figured out how to vote multiple times. He indicated he'd try to get the results up on the web page and then I could judge the validity of the numbers for myself (a truely novel concept in today's media IMO). He was very friendly. It might not be a bad idea to make a call to Mark and/or Stewart, asking how to see the results. If you don't all let on your personal feelings, it may not even appear to be an "organized" effort by us. :) I'd love to see these results reported in both the web and paper additions, but doubt they'd do that. I wonder if they've every considered or worried about multiple votes on any other polls they've taken or if they'd have worried about it on this one had the numbers gone the other way. I also wonder if there would be any question about making past polls' results available if the numbers had gone as they wanted. Assuming the numbers did influence anyone in not wanting to put previous polls' results on the web, Stewart's expressed desire to make them available would speak well of his intergity vs anyone who is lobbying otherwise in an effort to surpress. One lesson here is to try to get info on these types of polls out as quickly as possible and to then take a moment to vote as soon as possible, BEFORE the numbers skew too far against us and anyone can claim it was an "organized effort" (like "random" phone polls with loaded questions made during the day when most people are at work yield trustworthy results) that resulted in a sudden turn around. Regardless, they can now try to minimize the validity of their online poll, (admittedly unscientific) but at least they can't include in their reporting that the majority of on-line readers (more affluent?, better educated?) favor banning guns. Perhaps a few letters to the editor citing the results once they are available would be in order. While such polls are not scientific or random, one could make the case that those who are educated enough to use the internet and care enough about the issue to log an opinion, really don't want to see guns banned or something similar. Thanks to everyone who voted. Let us know if you have any contact with the DesNews on this issue and how it goes. - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent *the people* of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ..." -- Samuel Adams in arguing for a Bill of Rights, from the book "Massachusetts," published by Pierce & Hale, Boston, 1850, pg. 86-87. - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Dec 1998 11:07:55 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: [jimdex@inconnect.com: LPU: LP RELEASE: Instant Check] From the LPUtah. - ----BEGIN FORWARDED MESSGE---- Abolish the instant check gun system before innocent Americans are killed > > WASHINGTON, DC -- The government's so-called "instant background >checks" for gun buyers should be abolished immediately before any innocent >Americans are robbed, raped, or murdered while waiting to buy a firearm, the >Libertarian Party said today. > > The party's demand follows an admission by the FBI that because of >telephone and computer glitches, 34% of all gun buyers -- or 1,688 people on >Monday alone -- were unable to buy a gun. > > Meanwhile, just one-quarter of one percent of would-be gun-buyers were >rejected because of a criminal record -- meaning that 135 law-abiding citizens >were denied a gun for every criminal rejected during the first day of the new >program. > > "How many Americans have just been sentenced to death by bureaucracy >as a result of the government's failed instant check system?" asked Steve >Dasbach, national chairman of the Libertarian Party. > > "If even one American is harmed while waiting for government approval >to defend themselves, it's one too many -- which is why these background >checks should be abolished immediately." > > The national "instant check" system, which replaces the five-day >waiting period mandated by the 1994 Brady Bill, requires each of the nation's >105,000 gun dealers to call the FBI to run an instant criminal background >check on anyone trying to buy a handgun, rifle, or shotgun. > > "The problem is that criminals are the only Americans who benefit from >such background checks, because they don't take them," Dasbach said. "Real >criminals have no problem getting guns. In fact, a recent Justice Department >survey of convicted criminals found that 93% had acquired their guns >illegally. > > "But by forcing law-abiding citizens to wait for days and weeks to buy >a firearm, the government has painted a target on their backs." > > Forcing Americans to undergo background checks is not only unsafe -- >it's un-American and unconstitutional, too, Dasbach said. > > "An instant check of the Constitution reminds us that the government >doesn't have the authority to restrict gun ownership -- period. It's >outrageous for politicians to require a background check as a condition of >exercising any Constitutional right," he said. > > "The government has no more right to demand that you submit to a >background check before exercising your Second Amendment right to buy a gun >than it does to require a background check before exercising your First >Amendment right to publish a newspaper or go to church." > > However, Dasbach acknowledged one practical difference between the >First and Second Amendment rights in this case: "No lives are immediately >jeopardized by failure to publish a newspaper, but innumerable lives have been >put in danger this week by the government's refusal to allow Americans to buy >a gun to defend themselves." > > And if you run an "instant check" on the behavior of Congress, you'll >see that it can't be trusted when it meddles with the Constitution -- or our >safety, said Dasbach. > > "If you supported the Brady Bill, you trusted the politicians when >they said this law would just keep guns out of the hands of criminals. >Instead, innocent Americans have been unfairly denied a fundamental right -- >the right to protect themselves and their families. > > "In other words, Americans have once again had their liberty >sacrificed for the promise of safety. Unfortunately, the failure of the >instant-check system guarantees that many Americans will have neither." > > # # # LPUtah LPUtah -- This message sent via listserver "lputah@qsicorp.com" LPUtah -- All messages are the sole responsibility of the sender. LPUtah -- Support: Jim Elwell, email: elwell@inconnect.com LPUtah - ----END FORWARDED MESSAGE---- - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent *the people* of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ..." -- Samuel Adams in arguing for a Bill of Rights, from the book "Massachusetts," published by Pierce & Hale, Boston, 1850, pg. 86-87. - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Dec 1998 08:17:54 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: *Impeachment Vote Will Be Closer Than Predicted > RKBA Defenders >=20 > It's time to call Washington!=20 >=20 >=20 > Two topics: >=20 > 1) Don't let Clinton get away with treason. >=20 > 2) Don't put up with Brady II - Repeal it! >=20 >=20 > PLEASE - YOUR INPUT IS NEEDED RIGHT AWAY - timing is crucial >=20 >=20 > 1) NY Times: Impeachment May Pass [or FAIL] Full House by a Narrow > Margin >=20 > "By day's end, Republicans said there were up to 12 Republican votes > against impeachment and another small core group of moderates still > unwilling to commit. Democratic leaders say they believe that only 3 to > 5 > of their members will turn against Clinton. If the Republicans lose only > 12 votes, and if several Democrats break ranks, impeachment could pass > by > a narrow margin." http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm=20 >=20 > We could also *lose* by a very narrow margin, and then the Clinton- > Reno-ATF-Brady axis would push their gun registration / confiscation > operation into full gear.=20 >=20 > As we have all seen and been frustrated to no end: squishy Republicans > shake in their boots, and fail time and again to face down wrong, but > determined, Democrats. >=20 > We are close to exposing their corruption through an inquiry into > campaign finance crimes (selling votes for Chinese Communist money).=20 > The Dems have gone into high scream level because they know how > vulnerable they are. =20 >=20 > The votes are being tallied on next weeks' decision to impeach or not to > impeach and the crucial swing voters are teetering on the edge of > betraying us, the Constitution and the Second Amendment. A vote for > impeachment prevents a Gore presidential pardon, which means mouths > closed in anticipation of pardon may suddenly start to speak. >=20 > Please take a moment out of your busy life and contact Congress. >=20 > 1) In person is best > 2) then letters or faxes > 3) then telephone calls > 4) e-mails are better than nothing > 5) If don't do anything? You can't complain. >=20 > Contacting Congress=20 > http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/ - has Fax numbers! Best! If not, > then at least call. >=20 > THE ELECTRONIC ACTIVIST An email address directory of congress, state > governments, and media entities. > http://www.berkshire.net/~ifas/activist/=20 >=20 > Mr. Smith E-Mails Washington(sm): Mr. Smith E-Mails The Media(sm)=20 > http://www.mrsmith.com/=20 >=20 > To do it cheap, but takes time... > 1(800)361-5222 (ext. 90001) for any Representative or via the links: > ------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 > 2) REPEAL BRADY - DON'T RELY ON OTHERS TO DO ALL THE DIRTY WORK >=20 > PLEASE TAKE ACTION >=20 > ..and once you have contacted your CongressCritters and demanded that > Clinton be impeached, swing by and send an e-mail to every member of > Congress who has not yet signed on the legislation repealing the Brady > Bill GunOwners of America at: >=20 > http://www.gunowners.org/mailerx.html=20 >=20 > This handy device is all configured to auto-mail all the footdraggers.=20= > You only need to fill in a couple of boxes and this great device does > the rest of the work. >=20 > Thank you for your time, attention, and patience. >=20 > It's freedom you are leaving to your grandkids. >=20 >=20 > In Liberty, >=20 > Rick V. >=20 >=20 > --=20 > The Right to Self Defense is a Fundamental Human Right - RKBA >=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:31:49 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Jan. 1999 Hot Rod Magazine Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:19:37 -0700 Received: from kendaco.telebyte.com by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id OAA12160; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 14:06:28 -0700 Received: (from mail@localhost) by kendaco.telebyte.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id NAA25723; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:13:52 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: kendaco.telebyte.com: mail set sender to NRA-ILA-EVC-owner@kendaco.telebyte.com using -f Received: from x15.boston.juno.com (x15.boston.juno.com [205.231.100.28]) by kendaco.telebyte.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id NAA25719 for ; Mon, 7 Dec 1998 13:13:49 -0800 Received: (from rc_hayes1@juno.com) by x15.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id DVV5QYK3; Mon, 07 Dec 1998 16:10:37 EST To: NRA-ILA-EVC@kendaco.telebyte.com Date: Mon, 7 Dec 1998 15:08:07 -0600 Subject: Jan. 1999 Hot Rod Magazine Message-ID: <19981207.150808.-184629.4.RC_Hayes1@juno.com> From: rc_hayes1@juno.com (Royce C. Hayes) Reply-To: NRA-ILA-EVC@kendaco.telebyte.com Sender: NRA-ILA-EVC-owner@kendaco.telebyte.com Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Below is a letter that I am sending to Hot Rod Magazine regarding a letter on page 10. "My wife is an elementary-school librarian and a car girl. She is also smart enough to realize that it's safer for her and her pubescent, hormonally charged youngsters to ogle the cars and (sometimes) cleavage in Hot Rod than for them to be getting ideas from say, Guns & Ammo! Duh! Ignorance like that burns me up. This is a prime example of why we need to get our message out to the uninformed public. HCI loves people like this. Royce Hayes 4th Tx. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------------------------------------------- HOT ROD 6420 Wilshire Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90048-5515 Gentlemen: =20 I resent the slur and the "Duh" remark by Mr. Steve Kirkpatrick, Clio, AL, regarding the merits of semi-nudity versus "Guns & Ammo". I have enjoyed "Hot Rod" many years, following one of my favorite=20 pastimes. My other favorite pastime is shooting and reloading. I have subscribed to "Guns & Ammo" for many years. They also sponsor my favorite radio program "Gun Talk". I find nothing derogatory between the pages of "Guns & Ammo", and certainly nothing that would make me ashamed to let the smallest children look at or read. =20 We defenders of 2nd amendment rights are not a bunch of loose cannons.=20 We love our country. I have served in the military to defend Mr. Kirkpatrick's right to read whichever magazine he chooses. Please do not put me down or take away my rights because you are uninformed as to what is between the pages of my magazine. I believe in being responsible and trained with cars or with firearms.=20 Either one can be lethal in the hands of the wrong person. Should I say that you should never teach a child about a car? I think not. The same goes with firearms. Proper training is the key. Children must learn to the respect the inherent dangers of both. =20 Sincerely, ___________________ Royce C. Hayes 10433 CR 1292 Flint, Texas 75762 E-mail: RC_Hayes1@juno.com ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ****Owning a firearm is a RIGHT, not a privilege**** The NRA ILA EVC closed mailing list is NOT an=20 official list of the NRA, but is offered as=20 a tool by Jim Kendall (WA-1st District EVC) and Telebyte NW. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send an email request to=20 NRA-1st@telebyte.com *********** Victory 1998! *************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Dec 1998 14:32:19 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Clinton and gun shows Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:28:52 -0700 Received: from kendaco.telebyte.com by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA04125; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 10:15:51 -0700 Received: (from mail@localhost) by kendaco.telebyte.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id JAA06041; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:20:45 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: kendaco.telebyte.com: mail set sender to NRA-ILA-EVC-owner@kendaco.telebyte.com using -f Received: from arl-img-6.compuserve.com (arl-img-6.compuserve.com [149.174.217.136]) by kendaco.telebyte.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA06037 for ; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 09:20:44 -0800 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by arl-img-6.compuserve.com (8.8.6/8.8.6/2.16) id MAA07329; Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:20:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 12:19:58 -0500 From: David Adams Subject: Clinton and gun shows To: Andy Adams , "INTERNET:CWRHOADES@aol.com" , "INTERNET:NRA-ILA-EVC@kendaco.telebyte.com" , Warren B Jones Message-ID: <199811301220_MC2-61F5-DDB@compuserve.com> Reply-To: NRA-ILA-EVC@kendaco.telebyte.com Sender: NRA-ILA-EVC-owner@kendaco.telebyte.com Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline The following alert was forwarded to me from another list. As you are = well aware, the Clinton Administration wants to strangle gun shows using the federal agencies.=20 BATF is seeking public comment on gun shows. Please take a moment to = write a well-thought, concerned letter to the BATF. The address and other information is listed below. David Adams NRA-ILA-EVC, VA 7th http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/8358/ wingedmonkey@compuserve.com ___________________________________________________________________________= _________ The Clinton-Gore administration has set its sights on gun shows, and they will use every means at their disposal to eliminate the rights of gun owners in America. The BATF has recently issued an open letter requesting comments from "interested parties concerning gun shows." It reads as follows: "On November 7, 1998, the President expressed his concern about the = numbers of firearms sold at gun shows and elsewhere without Brady background = checks being conducted or the ability to trace the firearms being sold...The President has asked that the secretary and the Attorney General provide = him with recommendations by January 6, 1999. "The BATF would like your comments and suggestions concerning this matter. For your input to be considered please include your name and address. We request that your reply be returned to this office by December 7, 1998. We appreciate your time and input. Please mail comments to: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Attn: Gun Shows ' 650 Massachusetts Ave. NW, Suite 7400 Washington, DC, 20226" Of course, BATF's expansion of the President's statements to include regulating gun sales "elsewhere" raises more questions about the ultimate goals of the Administration. Time is short, so please be sure to submit your comments as soon as possible if you would like to have them considered= by the December 7 deadline. If you would like more information on how protect your Second Amendment Rights, please contact the NRA member = Council of King County, WAshington, at (206) 764-0778, or come to one of our meetings, The second Friday of every month, 7:00PM at Weapons Safety = Indoor Range in Bellevue, 13215 SE 30th St., Bellevue. Please forward this message to any interested parties- Ken Houghton ****Owning a firearm is a RIGHT, not a privilege**** The NRA ILA EVC closed mailing list is NOT an=20 official list of the NRA, but is offered as=20 a tool by Jim Kendall (WA-1st District EVC) and Telebyte NW. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send an email request to=20 NRA-1st@telebyte.com *********** Victory 1998! *************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 08:44:32 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: [Fwd: For your amusement: "Pistol Envy"] Go to the referenced site and read the story, it is hilarious See: http://www.realmensch.com/articles2/pistol.html=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 14:21:59 -0700 From: chardy@ES.COM (Charles Hardy) Subject: Smart Card Licenses one step at a time We managed to keep them from doing smart cards two years ago, so they'll just give it to us one piece at a time now--starting with bar codes and digitized pictures. All in the name of security, stopping forgers, and such, of course. And of course, they have no plans to add anything else *at this time*. Just like SS numbers would *never* be used for ID purposes. Once anything is digitized, it can be copied any number of times onto any number of systems quickly and perfectly. Any ideas on how to stop this. From today's Trib: Thursday, December 10, 1998 New Utah Licenses Will Thwart Counterfeiters BY LISA CARRICABURU THE SALT LAKE TRIBUNE Utah's Driver License Division is about to merge onto the Information Superhighway. The agency has awarded Polaroid Corp. a five-year, $4.5 million contract for a new digital-imaging and database system that by next fall will begin producing driver licenses with built-in security features designed to prevent duplication and fraud. ``Our existing system is so antiquated, documents can easily be reproduced with commercially available software and equipment,'' said Bart Blackstock, Driver Services Bureau chief. The new system, in contrast, will have safeguards guaranteed to drive counterfeiters crazy. Their crimes and those committed by forgers last year led to nearly 1,200 arrests, according to Crime in Utah 1997, published by the Utah Department of Public Safety. Once the system is in place in November 1999, drivers and state ID card holders will convert to the new documents on their renewal dates. For that reason, it may take up to five years to build the computer database with digital photographs of all Utah's licensed drivers and ID card holders. Once that database is in place, however, it also will serve as a valuable law-enforcement tool, Blackstock said. Police officers, for example, will be able to quickly access the database from laptop computers in their patrol cars, he said. ``They have access to similar information now; it just takes longer.'' The 500,000 driver licenses, learner permits and identification cards Utah awards each year to the state's 1.3 million motorists and other residents will originate at special computer workstations Polaroid will install in Utah's 25 driver license offices, said Kent Sharp, Polaroid program manager. Pictures captured by digital cameras will be stored as computer files. They will be sent to a central location where all documents will be produced, he said. The new licenses will resemble credit cards. A plastic laminate will be impossible to remove without damaging the document, unlike existing documents, which can be peeled apart fairly easily, Blackstock said. In addition, each license issued will have a bar code programmed with some of the information printed on the document, such as the holder's name, address and license number, he said. Even if counterfeiters are able to alter documents' outward appearances, they will be unable to change the information encrypted on the bar code. And because all documents will be produced at a single location, it will be easier to control materials used to make them, preventing thefts that lead to duplication or production of fraudulent documents. ``The process overall will be much more secure,'' Blackstock said. He stressed the new licenses will not be ``smart cards,'' as once discussed by lawmakers. While it will be possible one day to add microchips to the cards capable of storing bank account numbers and other information, ``We have no plans whatsoever to add such capabilities now.'' Legislators two years ago scrapped plans to add smart-card capabilities to Utah driver licenses after some residents complained, saying they feared the feature may give government access to personal information. For Utah drivers, the new system means they will not receive their licenses the same day their photographs are taken. Instead, they will receive temporary permits they may use for the five to seven days it takes for licenses to be made at the central facility and mailed out. The change also means driver license renewal fees may increase, Blackstock said. Each new license will cost the state about $2.75 to make, as opposed to the $1 cost for existing licenses. The Driver License Division in January will ask the Legislature for permission to slightly raise the driver-license renewal fee, which currently is $10, he said. Utah is one of several states converting to digital driver license systems, Sharp said. Polaroid already has installed systems in Colorado, Georgia, Iowa, Missouri, Oregon, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia and West Virginia. © Copyright 1998, The Salt Lake Tribune All material found on Utah OnLine is copyrighted The Salt Lake Tribune and associated news services. No material may be reproduced or reused without explicit permission from The Salt Lake Tribune. Contact The Salt Lake Tribune or Utah OnLine by clicking here. - -- Charles C. Hardy | If my employer has an opinion on | these things I'm fairly certain 801.588.7200 (work) | I'm not the one he'd have express it. "If there is one basic element in our Constitution, it is civilian control of the military." -- President Harry S. Truman (1884-1972) - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:53:04 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: Fw: Pol-Now the UN is after ammo as well Received: from kendaco.telebyte.com ([206.53.160.3]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:36:14 -0700 Received: (from mail@localhost) by kendaco.telebyte.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) id GAA11476; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 06:33:46 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: kendaco.telebyte.com: mail set sender to NRA-ILA-EVC-owner@kendaco.telebyte.com using -f Received: from mail1.javanet.com (mail1.javanet.com [205.219.162.10]) by kendaco.telebyte.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id GAA11472 for ; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 06:33:45 -0800 Received: from eadsent (ct-hartford-hiper1295.javanet.com [209.150.38.93]) by mail1.javanet.com (8.8.8/8.7) with SMTP id JAA21199; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:31:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <008401be2513$426d7ab0$492596d1@eadsent.NAI.NET> From: "Gregory" To: "Joe Tartaro" , "Bruce Stern" , "Ralph Sherman" , "Joel Partridge" , "Paul Payne" , "ILA EVC NRA" , "Scott Hoffman" , "Fairfield Cty Second Amend" , "Robert Crook" Subject: Fw: Pol-Now the UN is after ammo as well Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:33:43 -0500 Reply-To: NRA-ILA-EVC@kendaco.telebyte.com Sender: NRA-ILA-EVC-owner@kendaco.telebyte.com Precedence: list Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline - -----Original Message----- From: Steven Kendrick/UK To: CyberShooters Date: Friday, December 04, 1998 6:02 PM Subject: CS: Pol-Now the UN is after ammo as well BACKGROUND INFORMATION STUDY GROUP ON AMMUNITION AND EXPLOSIVES IN ALL THEIR ASPECTS Deriving from a recommendation of the Report of the Secretary-General on Small Arms submitted in pursuance of General Assembly resolution 50/70 B (A/52/298), the Study Group on Ammunition and Explosives in all their aspects has been established in pursuance of operative paragraph 3 of General Assembly resolution 52/38 J on "Small Arms". This paragraph asks the Secretary-General to "initiate a study on the problems of ammunition and explosives in all their aspects, as early as possible, within available financial resources, and = in cooperation with appropriate international and regional organizations = where necessary". The first working session of the Study Group took place from 27 April to 1 May 1998 at United Nations Headquarters in New York. The Study Group is = composed by eight experts, participating in their individual capacity, representing different regions of the world and different realities (Argentina, South Africa, Switzerland, Finland, the United Nations Institute for Disarmament Research, USA, Ireland and Slovakia). The Study Group has been entrusted with the challenging task of preparing the first-ever UN report on the issue, and as a part of the global strategy to curb the excessive and destabilizing accumulation of small arms. In this sense, the Study Group defined his own task as: carrying out a = study that, without prejudice to the legitimate possession, trade and use of ammunition and explosives, seeks to assess whether and how enhanced = controls of ammunition and explosives can contribute to preventing and reducing the excessive and destabilizing accumulation and proliferation, as well as the abuse of small arms. The Study Group established a framework for the study and divided the work among its members according to specialization and regions of origin. The first draft framework included different sections such as the definition of the mandate and authority of the Study Group, identification of the problem of ammunition and explosives; providers, consumers, transfers, stocks, surpluses, regional characteristics, existing forms of control and options for improving control. The Study Group has also drafted a questionnaire which was transmitted to governments, producers, trade associations and other actors involved in = the production or traffic of ammunition and explosives. This questionnaire includes inquiries related to capacity of production, exports and imports, illegal trafficking, transfers of technology, destruction of stocks and surpluses, transport legislation and international exchange of information.= Moreover, there is also a technical section including inquiries on the = types of ammunition and explosives used or identified in a given country. Based on the information received from this questionnaire, as well as from other sources of information, the Study Group will consider a set of recommendations and proposals to enhance control over ammunition and explosives, as a part of the overall strategy to control the excessive proliferation, accumulation and use of small arms and light weapons. A = close connection between the Study Group and the Group of Governmental Experts = on Small Arms is envisaged. The second session of the Study Group is scheduled to be held from 11 to = 15 January 1999 at UN Headquarters. -------[Cybershooters website & subscription info]-------- http://www.forge.demon.co.uk/cybershooters/ or email pj@forge.demon.co.uk ****Owning a firearm is a RIGHT, not a privilege**** The NRA ILA EVC closed mailing list is NOT an=20 official list of the NRA, but is offered as=20 a tool by Jim Kendall (WA-1st District EVC) and Telebyte NW. To subscribe or unsubscribe, send an email request to=20 NRA-1st@telebyte.com *********** Victory 1998! *************** - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:56:16 -0700 From: "David Sagers" Subject: Fwd: FEAR: Feds deluged with protests over KYC Received: from wvc ([204.246.130.34]) by icarus.ci.west-valley.ut.us; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 08:04:26 -0700 Received: from americium.baremetal.com by wvc (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id HAA16605; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:51:05 -0700 Received: from localhost (mapinc@localhost) by americium.baremetal.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id HAA26022; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:01:58 -0800 Received: by americium.baremetal.com (bulk_mailer v1.5); Fri, 11 Dec 1998 15:01:43 +0000 Received: (from mapinc@localhost) by americium.baremetal.com (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id HAA25989 for fear-list-outgoing@mapinc.org; Fri, 11 Dec 1998 07:01:43 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: americium.baremetal.com: mapinc set sender to owner-fear-list@mapinc.org using -f Message-ID: <000d01be2516$edd01d60$18be7dd1@grummk.odc.edu> From: "Karen Grumm" To: "Sue Frederick" , "Rosie Retter" , "Hemp-talk" , "FEAR-List" , "Brian Todd" Subject: FEAR: Feds deluged with protests over KYC Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 09:59:56 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-fear-list@mapinc.org Reply-To: "Karen Grumm" Organization: Forfeiture Endangers American Rights http://www.fear.org/ Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline - -----Original Message----- From: ScanThisNews To: ScanThisNews Recipients List Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 1:53 AM Subject: [FP] "Anti-government groups" fighting "anti-money laundering" regulation >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >SCAN THIS NEWS >12/10/98 > >---------------------- >New anti-money laundering rules spark big protest on bank privacy >5.26 p.m. ET (2226 GMT) December 10, 1998 > >By Marcy Gordon, Associated Press > >WASHINGTON (AP) * Federal regulators are being deluged with thousands of >e-mail messages from citizens furious about new anti-money laundering = rules >that they view as an invasion of privacy. > >As a visible symbol of the federal government with a plaque in every bank >branch, the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. has become a magnet for >consumers' anger over the proposed rules. > >But regulators at other federal banking agencies also reported Thursday they >had received many protesting e-mails, letters and telephone calls * some = of >them apparently instigated by anti-government groups. > >The ire is directed at the proposed regulations, called "Know Your >Customer'' rules, that would require banks to verify their customers' >identities and know where their money comes from. Banks also would have = to >determine customers' normal pattern of transactions and report any >"suspicious'' transactions to law enforcement authorities. > >The proposal, published Monday in the Federal Register, is designed to >combat money laundering techniques used by drug traffickers and other >criminals to hide illegal profits. Laundering includes the use of wire >transfers and bank drafts as well as "smurfing,'' the practice of = breaking >down transactions into smaller amounts that don't have to be reported = under >banking laws. > >The torrent of e-mail, first reported in The Wall Street Journal = Thursday, >came as the 90-day public comment period opened for the proposal. > >It reflects growing anxiety among consumers about banks' use of personal >financial data * a concern that prompted a top federal regulator to warn the >banking industry this spring that it needs to protect customers' privacy. > >Someone from Texas wrote, "I am appalled at even the suggestion of such = an >intrusion into our personal lives by the federal government.'' > >In another message, a Florida doctor told the regulators: "Next you'll = ... >be implanting (an electronic) chip in newborns at birth so they can be >scanned as they walk in any banks as an adult.'' > >FDIC spokesman David Barr said the agency had received a staggering 2,700 >e-mails and letters opposing the proposal. > >At least some of the angry messages appear to have been inspired by >anti-government groups claiming the proposed rules are part of a federal >conspiracy aimed at limiting people's constitutional rights, according to >the Journal and people close to the situation. > >Regulators and banking industry officials, who worked together on the new >rules, have taken pains to reassure consumers that their privacy would be >protected under the changes. > >"Because of privacy concerns, it is the ... expectation that banks would >obtain only that information that is necessary to comply with the rule, = and >would limit the use of this information to that purpose,'' the Office of the >Comptroller of the Currency, which regulates nationally chartered banks, >said in a statement. > >John Byrne, senior counsel of the American Bankers Association, said, = "Joe >Q. Citizen needs to recognize that there's nothing for him or her to = worry >about.'' > >comments@foxnews.com >=A9 1998, News America Digital Publishing, Inc. d/b/a Fox News Online. > >-----Original Message----- >From: W.G.E.N. [mailto:idzrus@earthlink.net] >Sent: Thursday, December 10, 1998 6:30 PM >To: idzrus@earthlink.net >Subject: NID:"KYC" Feds being deluged with Email protest > > >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Don't believe anything you read on the Net unless: >1) you can confirm it with another source, and/or >2) it is consistent with what you already know to be true. >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >Reply to: >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > To subscribe to the free Scan This News newsletter, send a message to > and type "subscribe scan" in the BODY. > Or, to be removed type "unsubscribe scan" in the message BODY. > For additional instructions see www.efga.org/about/maillist.html >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Scan This News" is Sponsored by S.C.A.N. > Host of the "FIGHT THE FINGERPRINT!" web page: > www.networkusa.org/fingerprint.shtml >=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > - - ------------------------------ End of utah-firearms-digest V2 #115 ***********************************